How much drilling does the Danaher Death Squad do? | John Danaher and Lex Fridman

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • John Danaher: The Path...
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GUEST BIO:
John Danaher is a coach, scholar, and educator of jiu jitsu, submission grappling, judo, MMA, and the martial arts.
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[@KelpWolf]

What John is saying about drilling is spot on for how I feel about learning martial arts in general. Drilling with progressively more resistance...to the point where it's situational rolling/sparring with frequent resets to drill the same combination of movements

[@Naturat91]

Replace jiujitsu with life in this coversation and you will still hear some real wisdom. John is a real philosopher - universal coach.

[@theimpaler98]

Dude was a philosophy professor at NYU. Realest of all philosophers

[@mauort6870]

Most bits of real wisdom are interchangeable. I had my automotives teacher correct me 17 years ago and he said "if you have to force it you aren't doing it right" tell me that isn't about life, love, jiu-jitsu, etc

[@thos1618]

​@@theimpaler98 No. He dropped out of his PHD program.

[@brianlilleyfilms]

If Danaher ever starts writing about his BJJ coaching, it would be a 12 volume set… and I would buy them all.

[@LionRVC1987]

He really should!!!!!!!!!!!

[@LionRVC1987]

Bruce Lee's book The Tao of Jeet Kune Do is a good a good book for the serious martial artist!

[@markocar69]

Lex + Danaher + weekly podcast = greatest new content

[@1fastmex]

Knowledge light years ahead of all the other coaches. Mind blowing how he is able to real down things

[@jamesbruder4529]

What Lex explains at the beginning about loving drilling is why i love skateboarding - its a sport where you can see others doing impressive things with the same limited tools you have, but you can only achieve that through incessant drilling and failure

[@michaelkartsonis6332]

Do a kick flip

[@allisonbrady1364]

Gay sport

[@alfiesolomon3531]

@@allisonbrady1364 So are all sports that are non-combat related? gtfo

[@kaibe5241]

@@allisonbrady1364 gay name.

[@mithrandirthegrey7644]

This applies to literately anything in life.

[@sparkyanderson6520]

Lex, you are proving his point by saying, "I felt like, through repetition, I could get to know my body more and understand how a move would work for me." Through repetition, you are finding a better form of drilling. You are finding the nuances that others are missing. You are asking the questions that naturally make anyone better. You may not realize you are asking those questions, but they are there. "What am I not seeing that makes a difference? What else can I see here? [seeing with new eyes]

[@goku-pops7918]

But if the opponent is not actually responding.hiw is that valuable information

[@Marcnshae2011]

Exactly. If you drill correctly, you are fine tuning your technique as you go. Every time you do it you learn better ways to be more efficient. I didn't know people legit drill for reps like they're lifting weights.

[@Gundamjinni]

This is changing the way I approach my boxing

[@kanyewest6539]

Big same

[@spazzywhitebelt]

Danahers point about drilling with minimal resistance and then trying to apply it with full resistance is great, I feel competent doing a technique while drilling and then like a fool when trying it when the person is resisting

[@blairphilip9439]

This guy is intense and impressive.

[@Jindo44]

In both cases, yes.

[@dustinvitrano6663]

Formidable, brilliant coach and mentor

[@dustinvitrano6663]

Drill for quality

[@bjjallday7194]

Indeed.

[@danielmohave8280]

very intellectual , great questions and great answers , I've enjoyed it very much.

[@yadnitsua5260]

You truly have no clue we’re John can go with his answers.

[@JohnSmith-vl8sd]

where

[@yadnitsua5260]

@@JohnSmith-vl8sd auto correct. Typed it fast. Thanks for the correction, I’m happy you were still able to understand... whewww

[@yadnitsua5260]

@@alexanderturl typing fast on an iPhone, yes it does, just saying.

[@FoolishlyAlive]

Thats what studying epistemology does to you.

[@aplus1080]

@@yadnitsua5260 Yeah I don't think he always knows either. Like someone else said: it's what studying the art of bullshit gets you.

[@msifu81h43]

Holy Shit ..drop the knowledge ..Bruce had it right 50 yrs ago don't do the technique ..feel the technique ... an Awesome clip!

[@graciescottsdale]

Feeling is believing

[@kovenmaitreya7184]

I gotta say, I like drilling as a blue belt. sometimes more than rolling, but I use it like how Danaher mentions. I focus on the intricacies of the mechanics and try to up the resistance and the difficulty of the drill as it goes on. I don't just pump out reps if I can help it. Then I try to take it a step further and positionally spar seeking to get the technique on a resisting opponent. I think its working for me.

[@MJ87808]

honestly some days i don't want to roll. i wanna spend the time perfecting technique.

[@c_rock3512]

White belt and I agree with this. Drilling and situational rolling are super helpful right now

[@chimar0]

Thank you for asking this question, Lex. Pure gold

[@mjp-bi3re]

I have always focused on mechanics of moves and time. This helped understand and know my body. I would then use those moves against any belt level in sparring to further develop them.

[@fracon3628]

„They are wrong..“ That killed me. 😂😂 I love Danaher!

[@franciscofeest6691]

Danaher and Fridman are two powerhouses. Tremendous minds.

[@Vincenze]

Amazing and can be applied to any skill acquisition

[@dcltaylor]

I would pay to see/attend a seminar with Danaher demonstrating the proper way to drill that successfully lends itself to sparring. What an impressive coach!

[@monkerud2108]

yeah, it's like learning anything else, like skateboard tricks, once you have done it in a crap way 150 times, you are actually further away from doing it well in terms of your footwork and comprehension than the first time you did it in a crappy way. habits are only good if they are the right habbits.

[@urbansamurai261]

That's a great point

[@jamesbruder4529]

dude no way! Just made the same analogy to skateboarding and found your comment

[@husq2100]

The old saying is practice makes perfect. That saying is incomplete. Perfect practice makes perfect.....

[@graciescottsdale]

@@husq2100 Bingo!

[@JudoHighlights2015]

I think what John is saying applies to jujitsu which is a highly skill dominate sport. But other sports require strength, speed and power over skill and repetition is a way to maintain that. Think about a boxer hitting a heavy bag for example. From where I come from, judo, repetition is important to maintain ‘the touch’ which is a combination of speed, timing and correct balance breaking. Also, throwing people keeps your body strong. Although, a lot of high level places here in japan do less repetitions and more situational drills with resistance

[@tomeknaj]

Props for the Jiro Dreams of Sushi reference!

[@sebamunoz5001]

This is a rare sighting of Danaher without a rashguard. See it, appreciate it, remember it. We're not getting another chance boys.

[@amedsandoval5905]

The point of drilling is skill acquisition! Thank you John!.

[@EnergiaMartialArts]

Very interesting discussion between these intelligent gentlemen 👌🏼

[@mrsandhu19801]

Specific sparring is the best type of 'drilling'

[@byronjuarez656]

We call it "Situational Sparring" here.

[@chenwang643]

8;18... as he said, drilling has diminishing returns, ofcourse u need to drill techniques with no resistance to learn the pattern but then as he said, gradually resist more and more, if it were to be done 1000 times the same way on a none resisting opponent it may aswell be aikido

[@ededdison8965]

You can drill movements for number (1000 teeps, 1000 knees, 1000 roundhouses, etc on a heavy bag) and if your focus is to develop skill over quantity, it can work! Doing these repetitive movements can also teach you to better feel your movement and understand it and even understand where the improvement needs to be. The question shouldn't be does drilling work? But rather, what are you trying to achieve by drilling?

[@noahshaffner9692]

What you are feeling during drilling is not accurate to the actual exchange though. The skill developed with live resistance during live rounds will always be more than static drilling because there isn’t anything artificial about the environment you are interacting with. A child who spends 6 months riding a bike with no training wheels will always beat a child who spent 6 months on training wheels.

[@ededdison8965]

@@noahshaffner9692 Did you watch the video or just read my comment and decide to respond to it??? First off, how many elite level championship fighters do you imagine are out there that have reached that level without drilling technique? Second, I'm not quite certain you fully comprehend the message my initial comment was communicating but I agree that the feedback via resistance from sparring and fighting is absolutely necessary. I'm also not sure if you watched the interview because John explains this whole concept I'm speaking about in addition to what you're addressing... the language he uses is "skill" and "knowledge".

[@Joecool20147]

So glad Danaher said this. Cuz before when I was drilling I wasn’t think about skill acquisition at all.

[@ShammyBigBoy]

Best God damn thing I heard all week. Amazing insights from these two men

[@craigallmendinger8404]

This guy is awesome. I’ve never trained bjjj and probably never will… but I can learn from this guy all day.

[@mesanchez9310]

7:15-7:19 This how I'm going to preface arguments with my bf from now on 🤣

[@cancontrl]

John's answers can be applied to pretty much ANYTHING.

[@strahinja95]

He did say that it is too complex and he doesn't have the space to demonstrate how to drill, but it is super necessary part of this whole topic. And also, how to "inspire" people to drill with us and save blue belt women Lex please do it for all of us BJJ fanatics, martial artists, drillers, killers, and life winners

[@sanbaggingwhitebelt6280]

Did someone steal Danaher's rash guard?! I think this is the first time seeing him not wearing one. 😆

[@michaelangelo7431]

He articulates it so well.

[@anotheryogateacher8499]

does anyone know if any of those Danaher dvds teach you how to drill properly?

[@Sunyayana]

I just realized something... is... Danaher wearing something other than a rash guard? Is it a rash sweater? A winter guard? A casual rash guard? Whatever it is, underneath it must be the true rash guard of yore.

[@ChinoV]

He’s wearing an long sleeve under armor over his true rash guard. Good observation 🤙🏼

[@timelineenjoyer]

We call that a thermal

[@BernardoFlor_Krio]

It's rashguard protector on top of his podcast type 3 rash guard

[@RonALampman]

Agree to a point, but I like numbers as well. My number is 3, meaning do it 3 times correctly with no corrections/coaching, then move on. Then when revisited, it should come back a lot easier.

[@FR-ty5vn]

Great 👍🏼 discussion

[@shyfly6560]

I prefer position roll n. I find it helps me learn how to obtain the submission.

[@doomboogie315]

How beneficial is Drilling? John: have you ever thought about the metabolism of pythons

[@Toolie716]

Lex: disagrees with John & asks for his validation John: "You"ll probably have to furnish an example" 🤣 I love John!!!

[@saugalog4148]

I was hoping Lex would follow up to ask exactly what the difference is between good drilling and bad drilling.

[@bugs4680]

slow and meticulous , after awhile sharp , then spars

[@davidkingyogato1097]

So many gems in this conversation

[@Dbunkr55]

There is a reason his team is so much better than everyone else.

[@thawkereynolds]

In our wrestling room we had a sign “Practice doesn’t make perfect, PERFECT practice makes perfect “

[@haraldodunkirk1432]

No one can deny JD’s success, but I think he misses something about greasing the groove, neural pathways etc. Also look at wrestling and judo. Very number heavy, judo especially.

[@fitnesslibrarian9013]

I don’t think he means to say picking a number and drilling that many times is not an okay way of learning. He is just saying there is a better way. Drilling a move the right way is going to be better than not drilling even if you are just going through the numbers by counting, but there is better ways to do it.

[@Malaestro]

Judo is interesting though coz some cultures do drilling very differently, e.g the Russian system uses a lot more moving drills, etc, and also a lot of static drilling is actually speed work or drilling the technique to develop the initial movement skill (which takes approx 300 repetitions)

[@21b4ll3r21]

i could listen to Danaher for hours

[@mjp-bi3re]

I dont always have a partner, but i do have a submission master grappling dummy and can practice endless repetitions on it. When I go to class, I get the feedback I need from partners.

[@bradleylignoski6887]

I wonder if Jon has experience with dance. My partner is a very advanced Argentine Tango instructor. She taught me the basics of following Tango around the time I started BJJ. The way she taught me Tango deeply influenced the way I drill in BJJ. Argentine Tango is the BJJ of dance: it is extremely complicated, subtle and entirely improvised. When learning moves in Argentine Tango there is some focus on technique, but 90% of the effort goes into split second decision-making. When we drilled, we mostly drilled decisions or you might say reflex-development. She would put me in situations that felt similar, but they were very subtly different and the drill was to learn to distinguish them and react properly in a fraction of a second. I took this focus over to BJJ training. When I drill, I try to spend most of my effort on distinguishing between (sometimes subtle) differences in my opponent's behavior, then reacting properly. Jon is spot on about the importance of having a skilled training partner for this. Your partner needs to know the dilemmas and variations you're working on and they have to correctly perform movements (in the pursuit of their own objectives) that serve as triggers for your own behavior. When "drilling" during class with random people, I am constantly surprised by the degree to which people mindlessly launch into reps before I, their partner, have performed the action which the move is meant to exploit (for example rolling for a kimura after sprawling on my single leg attempt, before I "mistakenly" place my elbow on the floor by their calf). Watch some video of high level, improvised partner dance. Ask yourself how the follower (usually the woman) is flawlessly executing moves in response to her partners cues. Cues that are so simple, you can't even tell they're happening? She learned by focusing on distinguishing between those cues with the cooperation of a focused, cooperative partner. Consider a coming position, like dog fight, you're in the lower position. What are the variations? Your opponent has a wizzer or not (if not, go to the back). Your opponent's head is high. Your opponent's head is low. Each scenario can be exploited with a specific response. Start with learning the basic movement and get the details right (mostly) for each response. Conceptually learn when each skill is appropriate. After this most people stop drilling, but this is the point where the gains (and the fun) really begin. Now, get into the dog fight through a few different setups and each time, have your partner give you a different behavior within the dog fight position. Focus on identifying the correct response to that specific scenario and executing it as well as possible. Reset and do it again, each time, with a random trigger from your partner. You will discover that you mess up in certain variations, so focus on those for a bit and then go back to randomized triggers. If you only practice decision making while rolling, maybe you'll get a hundred chances to make these decisions in a year and you probably won't improve much. If you drill this way, you'll get that many reps of decision making in a week. Drill decision-making and always drill sets of complimentary moves with a skilled partner who is giving you randomized triggers. Start out with minimal resistance and ramp it up. This is how you develop the skill of changing moves together which create difficult dilemmas for your opponent. For example, if i am working on knee on belly escapes and I'm on bottom. Suppose i flare my top elbow and push my partners knee. My partner should immediately collect my top arm and arm bar me, rather than stop the action and tell me I made a mistake. This way, he practices exploiting mistakes and i develop a kinesthetic knowledge of the mistake and it's consequences.

[@michaelkartsonis6332]

Lex is the best

[@WhatAMagician]

I've been listening to a lot of UK hip hop and this video title threw me for a loop.

[@jt8527]

Drillear es la filosofía del kata en el Judo y el karate 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼, práctica constante, repetición sin fin.

[@ericyen1]

Nice reference Jiro Dreams of Sushi

[@krneki6954]

well i surely did not expect this answer... deep

[@karmaakabane2165]

My gym doesn’t count our drills, we just go for 20 or so minutes while the coaches walk around correcting us

[@Happycamper808]

All the Danaher clips are so good.

[@harrygibson1614]

Need to drill more for sure

[@nnaeole]

When good people drill, it’s like watching good people dance Book of Danaher

[@prithvib8662]

Would be nice if we could get the timestamps for this clip in the description so we can quickly find this portion of the conversation in the full length podcast.

[@afrodemon8629]

Or you could just watch this clip.

[@prithvib8662]

@@afrodemon8629 what if I want the discussion before or after this clip?

[@afrodemon8629]

@@prithvib8662 Then listen to the whole podcast.

[@prithvib8662]

@@afrodemon8629 are you serious lmao

[@afrodemon8629]

@@prithvib8662 Are you serious? It ain't hard to find this part on your own.

[@seansingh8862]

BJJ is essentially the same as bullet chess: it's essentially learning a huge variety of motifs, then entering into a game of competitive pattern recognition to threaten or execute one or more of those motifs. They key difference is that BJJ is around 100-150 years behind chess in terms of the evolution and refinement of ideas and training methodologies. Chess players never ever do anything that is the equivalent of a BJJ drill for reps. Chess, like BJJ simply has far too much complexity for that to be anything other than a waste of time. It's interesting to see two black belts debating something that will eventually become universally accepted as a truism in Danaher's favour (albeit probably not in our lifetime).

[@goku-pops7918]

Amen! Why is that so many coaches believe in mindless drilling, were did it come from?

[@PeterChanJr]

is there a video on how to drill properly like danaher mentioned 100x

[@babloescobango5143]

The infamous "dinner" rash guard. It just, works.

[@thomascarsonbjj8226]

At 13:15 I almost pissed myself 😂very true stuff ⚡👂

[@jasondickinson4132]

This is as much about learning and mastering any skill as it is about training jiu-jitsu.

[@masem.2671]

That's the Russian in you, Lex. The Russian Olympic team drills more than any team in the world.

[@JulienGaudfroy]

The Chinese team : hold my liquor.

[@turtle5050]

And take as much steroids as any team in the world along with China.

[@bmitzagrrmursal6233]

You mean doping

[@bmitzagrrmursal6233]

You mean doping

[@turtle5050]

@@bmitzagrrmursal6233 no steroids same shit. You can also say performance enhancing drugs.

[@andriusandriuskevicius]

3:21 I immediately got out of my bed and left the room

[@cromdaleblvd4677]

gad damn!!! this man is the damn guru!!!

[@Trasgoooo]

Who would be the John Danaher of Muay Thai?

[@randybobandy7236]

Pretty sure John is aware of the Ribeiros haha

[@ScoopTheMighty]

i think that was for the audience, especially non bjj people.

[@drumrocka]

“You’ll probably have to furnish an example” Bruh

[@GogoGogo-xf8uf]

Danaher: I’ma over explain everything

[@artemmartynov9044]

I’m amazed by the fact Danaher is not wearing a rash guard

[@Happycamper808]

“WuN TwOO ThReE Get the fuck outta here” 😂

[@user-yq7xf2ss6e]

I agree drilling is my favorite part of ckas

[@BigT-dp5qd]

WAAAAAAAT no rash guard john!!!???

[@bartholomewcorrigan4161]

He might be the most deranged man on earth while also being the greatest coach. There would be no Gordon Ryan or any of those guys without him. And that’s not a knock on them. It’s just this lunatic is that great

[@chengezhussaini1464]

Work hard and work right.

[@aplus1080]

Beautiful.

[@LionRVC1987]

But doesn't drilling allow for stronger neural networks for muscle memory therefore the technique becomes a reflex action?

[@jimmyjam86]

Black belts are too beat up to drill exhaustively

[@CrazyHeartRanch]

You will probably have to furnish an example....SAVAGE

[@Man-u-flex]

Lex thought he was on to something and being smart when he said drilling and then coach just crushed him lol

[@patrickreagan7784]

Initially John seemed to be mocking the idea of drilling as if he thought his value of a coach was being challenged.Why is BJJ different from any other sport in acquiring and maintaining skills? For example a baseball player taking batting practice or taking grounders is essential.Lex is not talking about doing mindless repetition.

[@alpinestargt]

me: the skye is blue jon:......................no

[@benbray4982]

'....?...?....!?.....you'll probably have to furnish an example'

[@deetop623]

When Danaher used profanity it just reminded me that he is human after all!😂 👍👊👌🤜🇦🇺

[@muhammad_wada]

This begs the question “What is good drilling?” Does Danaher ever answer this question? Also, how do Russians approach drilling as part of their training regimen? What best practices can we learn to improve our drilling?

[@plogplog207]

yes he does answer it, he roughly said its when you show the right kind of resistance that compliments what ever technique the other person is working on

[@BernardoFlor_Krio]

Buy his drilling videos on bjj fanatics, he talks about it

[@muhammad_wada]

@@plogplog207 Thanks!

[@muhammad_wada]

@@BernardoFlor_Krio Thanks!

[@BernardoFlor_Krio]

@@muhammad_wada no problem, wish i found it sooner myself

[@moisesnavarro6051]

first time i see john danaher without a rashgard 😂😂😂😂

[@satellite3253]

6:05

[@cancontrl]

3:44 let me finish that for you Mr Danaher...then you would be the over lord of fighting. Probably an immortal floating eyeball

[@echoscope4278]

Right right

[@timothycarey3883]

You always have the 80/20 rule of diminishing returns.

[@LeviPS3]

Gold....

[@bjorndag2497]

mr danaher is a real master, but his arguments on this one surprised me,. He is so heavy into judo and japanese methods, but in Judo drilling the same throw over and over......and over again (with partner, with bands etc) so is he saying that japanes olmpic judokas could be multiple times beterr if they did drill??? I am confused

[@bipedalhominid6815]

I drill stuff when I roll....

[@jonathandeguzman9833]

John needs to author a bjj philosophy book