“Liberalism in 2025”: STAN GRANT

As Syria transforms, as Trump returns, as Putin prepares for victory, as China lies in wait, and as we all look towards a new year, Josh sits down with one of the smartest analysts of liberal democracy.
Stan Grant was CNN's Senior International Correspondent based in Abu Dhabi, Hong Kong and Beijing, before returning to Australia as International Affairs Analyst for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
He is arguably Australia's most experienced global journalist and the most famous Indigenous Australian. He resigned from the national public broadcaster last year in a national firestorm about racism.
He and Josh discuss the future of the global order, whether Enlightenment values are up to the task, and the role of public broadcasters like the ABC.
You’re missing out on our best ad-free content if you haven’t popped over to the Uncomfy Convos Substack page at uncomfortableconversations.substack.com
/ joshzepps
/ joshszeps
/ uncomfyconversations

[@neildrd]

Wow, this guy has some interesting, persuasive arguments. Very well spoken. Glad to have been introduced to him. Thank you, from a card carrying atheist. Will look for his writings. Cheers!

[@wikmedia15]

Great yarn fellas. Good to see Stan again, great to hear from a man of his experience.

[@stezzoffinator]

terrific pod, really enjoyed the back and forths and respectful disagreeing

[@eskylent7962]

He is brilliant ❤

[@TheRevaknight]

this chat completely changed my take on Stan, he's much more reasonable that I thought. well done

[@Gumsley86]

Great conversation

[@brettodonnell3318]

Thanks Josh and especially you Stan. Deep respect. I’ve read all Stans books and listened to many a wonderful conversation and speech his shared, I miss hearing his reasonable, thoughtful, intelligent, experienced, kind and loving voice. I have no idea why anyone in Australia would have an issue with him, we are lucky to have him amongst us.

[@lukeevans9505]

This was very interesting. Stan's positions surprised me quite a bit there...

[@dashendi6562]

This guy is only one step away from hosting his own show on the daily wire.

[@andymeier7708]

I will never forget him kicking a guy out of an audience because he felt uncomfortable because of a question. I have no respect for him.

[@nancybartley4610]

Josh repeatedly interrupts Stan and in so doing we are deprived of hearing Stan's ideas fully presented.

[@andrewstimpson3913]

Terrible interviewer. Let people speak if you are inviting them on

[@YuriUzliam]

So Stan's extraordinarily vague alternative to the limitations of liberalism is Catholicism? Or seemingly an even more hazy idea that if we all retreat to our own religious/cultural traditions, that these silos will somehow balance, by virtue of an improbable invisible hand, into both domestic and international peace? I wonder if there are any examples of this type of isolationism not working? Hmmm... Even if you define the historical imprint of the enlightenment in such a weird, esoteric way that you feel that it's simultaneously responsible for both Trump and wokeism; I'd take that in a heartbeat over an organisation that chooses to protect itself and paedophiles over their victims. All the while having the audacity to present itself as deserving to be listened to on issues of morality.

[@TheGoukaruma]

Well said. He is trying to resell old ideas that didn't work and pretend everything good comes from that.

[@alexandragrace8164]

Stan Grant is great - I’ve read two of his books and always enjoy his commentary. But I can’t think about the ABC without wondering why so few people recognise it’s absolutely atrocious journalism on certain subjects; biased coverage which is actively harming people. As a lesbian I’m totally disenchanted with the ABC due to its financial relationship with ACON, and its refusal to report objectively on the vitally important issue of gay and lesbian children and teens being subject to a once in a lifetime medical assault scandal (social and medical “transition”). Of course we should be exposed to and take seriously the views of people who believe in gender identity ideology. But the ABC absolutely fails in its mandate to inform the Australian public and fails to present the scientific evidence and the perspectives of those of us who believe gender identity ideology is not only false, but extremely harmful - most of all to women, homosexuals, survivors of male violence, and children! I realise this topic isn’t in Stan’s areas of expertise or interest, but just thinking about the ABC makes me feel so furious and betrayed as a woman, a lesbian, and a taxpayer. I’d love to see the podcast so an episode interviewing one of the many Aussie gender critical campaigners and among other things discuss why the ABC propagandises gender identity ideology - and how it seems to get away with doing so.

[@FairAndPracticalProgress]

There was a pretty good four corners on that topic of gender clinics & the fact that the UK & Scandinavian countries have been closing and regulating these due to conflicting or lack of evidence of good outcomes

[@Spirale462]

This along with other ideologies ABC puts forward, before objective news is why Ive lost a lot of faith in them.

[@kenhaley212]

Love your work, Josh: but as you begin saying "2025 ... ending with a lot to think about", I thought - I wished that weren't a mistake, because I would like to analyse how the new US President, J.D. Vance, is going and how Australia weathered the Chinese government's attack on Taiwan, just to broach two plausible scenarios. I, too, have great respect for Stan Grant - but would suggest that "probably the most experienced international journalist Australia has ever produced" is a contestable statement saved only by the modifier "probably": it's not too hard to make the argument that John Pilger was that; and, I would argue, "Chinese" Morrison has credible claims of his own.

[@patricknoble3090]

Szeps thiinks the eu is anything close to democratic. Lolz

[@robertwalker7924]

gosh Stan....

[@mick900123]

Crikey

[@geofftottenperthcoys9944]

So what has this grifter got to say now...

[@adtastic1533]

Really Stan? Last time I heard from you, you were the most painfully woke man in Australia. Now you think Catholicism is a better system of Govt than Liberalism? Like the Islamic theocracies are working out so well. Are you still butt hurt about the Voice? Have you realised progressivism is essentially illiberal and wished the Govt just imposed the Voice on Australians? So we could have a new diocese to the religion of woke in Canberra? Except instead of populated by priests in Rome, it's populated by the same unaccountable race grifters who've spent their entire career getting rich off of failing to improve the lives of Aboriginal people? I'm not impressed.

[@vickiwhalan4328]

I don't remember him saying that Catholicism was a better system of Govt than liberalism.

[@DrumsBah]

Stan Grant has been a religious conservative for at least a decade. He also supported the Uluru statement from the heart and fiercely criticised what he perceived as racism while he worked at the ABC. Its not too complicated to hold these thoughts at the same, although you seem to be struggling.