Lie-Nielsen Honing Guide vs. Veritas MK.II Honing Guide | Tool Duel #1

[@MattEstlea]

HOW TO MAKE A PROTRUSION STOP: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2WUaImMpMxjeMU

[@kenessex528]

Matt Estlea how to make a protrusion stop

[@rothyn88]

well then, i accidental read protrusion as prostitution, really confused me for a bit

[@sc1386]

@Matt Estlea is it possible to make a good honing guide with wood.

[@skwalka6372]

Matt, I know this is a belated question, but doesn't the fact the wheel in the Nielsen, which seems to be made of steel, cause you to be concerned about its effect on the grinding stone, especially the diamond ones?

[@adeh503]

Veritas all the way, much more precise and the same results over and over again

[@Wesstuntube]

Thanks for the thorough overview - it helped a lot, even though I ended up going with the Veritas. What killed the Lie Nielsen for me is the price. $125 US for the jig itself. Another $35 for the long jaw pair. Another $70 for the 2 skew jaw pairs that allow you to do left and right skew chisels, assuming you only want to do 30 degree skew chisels. If you wanna do left and right 18 degree skew chisels add on another $70. We're talking $300 for a fully-equipped honing guide that can handle all of the common situations, and you STILL have to make your own angle registration jig of some sort. The Veritas deluxe honing guide is $125 and includes both the wide and narrow heads, the flat and cambered rollers, and the proper angle registration jig. Throw in another $35 for the skew registration jig, and you're set for left and right skew chisels of any angle. We're ready for anything for $160, which is about half the cost. I totally believe in buying quality, but the Veritas is quality. Quality for half the price is something I can live with, even if I have to tighten an additional knob.

[@georgeconradie5355]

Totally agree. Apart from the price, using other tools like a screw driver to change the grab jaws seem more fiddly than hand tightened knurls.

[@lonewolfmtnz]

TOTALLY AGREE - Lie-Neilson pricing is freakin' NUTZ. I reckon if you drive a Bugatti with its $25,000 dealer-only oil changes, then you don't GAF. But in the real world, there is the rest of us savages.

[@robinstewart6510]

I rarely sharpen both chisels and blades at the same time. Usually one or the other. And, once the Veritas is set up for chisels, I can sharpen all the chisels I want. Same with blades. In other words, the Veritas isn't that "fiddly" in actual use. Can't think of anything I don't like, but especially like the wide wheel and nice registration jig.

[@paulround8501]

Have to agree, Lie Nielsen are good tools for sure but they are way too expensive for what they are especially here in the EU where you can add another 25% at least to the US prices.

[@christophersult5728]

Too fiddly? 😂 with Lie-N, it’s way overpriced for tiny pieces of metal and much more fiddly with all those parts for each type blade n chisels🙄 screw that it takes me 20 secs to register my blade or chisel perfectly squared and literally two secs to screw in brass knobs plus the roller wheels?? It’s wobbles like a drunk driver swerving all over the road while the Veritas maintains perfectly . I dunno maybe it’s your arms or the way you push n pull hone style is not on point with Veritas but practice helps I guess. I know mine is on point and the facts with how long it took, how it’s perfectly squared and right on the money with exact degree that I wanted every time. Plus def makes honing more fun 😁

[@Cygnusvailand]

As an owner of the "budget" eclipse style honing guide I think the function it best serves is making me appreciate the need for a premium honing guide

[@MattEstlea]

😂😂

[@mrklean0292]

I couldn't agree more. 😂😂 I'm tired of messing around with mine and plan on getting the Veritas version next week.

[@CafeenMan]

I disagree about the Veritas honing guide regarding it being "fiddly". It's actually very simple and quick to set up. I would agree with you if I was always using it for the first or second time when I was trying to figure it out but once I learned how to use it I can get it set up with the blade ready to sharpen in less than a minute (not counting all the time I spend looking for the various parts because I keep "reorganizing" and can't remember where I moved everything). Now it does have an actual flaw though. It can't do really short blades. And until a short while ago it didn't do narrow blades very well because not matter how much you tightened the blade it could shift. They now have a narrow blade adapter that works great. Not sure if they have a short blade adapter but I have to use a different guide for them or sharpen by hand.

[@Ed-lz4jv]

LV kit does much more than all the others and not too much $$$ either, He was really whining about fiddly crap LOL

[@gregsnewyt]

Started with the Veritas MK II. A hundred restored antique hand planes and chisels than came with butchered bevels later, I now sharpen with the same Veritas MK II. It’s that good, that simple, that accurate, that consistent, and that much of a good value. Buy it, learn to use it, sharpen beyond sharp with it, and get back to cutting wood like butter.

[@sparkyheberling6115]

It's adjusting the two knobs that is fiddly. They need to be tightened 𝗲𝘅𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗹𝘆 the same amount, or the chisel won't be secure. My workaround was to remove the chisel and tighten the knobs all the way down, then put a permanent divot on each knob at the 12 o'clock position. It helps me keep track of the number of turns.two knobs are tightened 𝗲𝘅𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗹𝘆 the same amount.

[@spolz2231]

7 year old video that is still relevant. Well done and thanks.

[@dougdaley83]

Matt your reviews always provide great insight into why different options might suit certain scenarios rather than just biasing your reviews on your own workflow. It’s been absolutely fantastic as a new hand tool woodworker over the last year collecting my toolbox.

[@scottinharwood]

Have to admit, dulling tools is more fun. I use a worksharp for most of my sharpening; it sits on my bench ready for a refresh of the micro bevel and I am off. I also occasionally use the Veritas on a flat granite stone that accepts a full sheet of wet-dry sandpaper of grits from 400 through 4000 for plane blades. I on and off get hand-me-down chisels; yard sales, relatives, etc. I have to set aside a half day at a time typically just to flatten the backs, regrind the primary bevel to remove the chips and dings put there by folks who think chisels are hammers or screwdrivers (used them as pry bars, screw drivers and paint can openers.) I have had to make new handles for half of these. Great post!

[@Hp2G1]

I have the Veritas MK.II one, and really like it's versatility. Plane blade, chisel, skew blade, short blade, it does them all. You make it sound complex, but I find it very easy and quick to use. Yes I was glad they introduced the side clamping option for very narrow chisels. Since I already had the Camber Roller, I asked Veritas to send me an additional brass knob (which they did for free) to mount the strait roller on it, and have now two dedicated guides for plane blade and chisel respectively. It is nice that Lie Nielsen has made the screw captive, because there are 4 of them and they are small. But comparing losing tiny screw with a big brass knob is unfair in my opinion. There is only one brass knob on the Veritas that you need to remove when you change the roller. The other two that clamp the blade are normally never completely removed. These are two very good (and expensive) guide, but as you point out , the Veritas is more versatile... and for us in Canada, almost half the price!

[@chucksauter1204]

With the skew sharpening, do you do that with the regular clamp? And do you have a problem with it moving?

[@SkylersRants]

After making do with the cheap $12 model, I finally splurged and bought the Lie-Nielsen honing guide. What a HUGE difference! It is so much nicer to use. I really think it is worth the money, even though it seems so similar to the cheaper one, it's not.

[@terencebrown1754]

I bought a veritas honing guide from you guys in 2007. What a brilliant piece of kit it is and still is giving me good service. I would recommend it to any joiner. I bought an Ezelap diamond stone, the pair are unbeatable. I always finish my plane blades and chisels off with a leather stop. 😎

[@alan_wood]

Your video was useful and interesting, thank you. I have just bought the Veritas based on this and other videos. I can totally see why you didn't get on with it. As a professional, your time is money and the Veritas does take longer to use. As a hobbyist, the cost of the guide is very important. I got the flat and cambered roller, and the wide and narrow clamps for less than the cost of the basic Lie-Nielson guide. £125 delivered. I don't mind taking my time and the Veritas seems almost fool-proof for a dabbler like me. Once again, thank you for your advice and help.

[@mikeamescreations]

Love my Veritas. Worth every penny!!

[@adampatterson]

The Veritas Deluxe set is around 150 CAD which is about on par with the Australian dollar for anyone who is wondering. It will also do straight and rounded blades.

[@j10948]

I have the Veritas II honing system. It’s great quality, never had any of the “fiddly” come loose. Takes less than minute to set up honing guide to set angle.

[@geomiss8889]

What I like about the Veritas mk2 is the wide roller, that notches for a micro bevel and the consistency it embraces for the minimum metal needed to remove. Metal removed to bring the blade/chisel back to sharpness is a big deal.

[@KarateCritic]

Great video Matt. Clear, concise and B.S. free! Keep up the good work.

[@Blingem14]

Hardly B.S. free... he favors Lie-Nielsen even when Veritas has a better tool.

[@jeepthangjim]

@@Blingem14 That's not BS. That's his opinion vs yours. In my opinion Veritas is not the better tool. I agree with Matt that there's WAY too much going on with that thing. There's no need to make a homing guide so complicated.

[@snowwalker9999]

I have two Veritas honing guide, one for the plane blades with camber roller and one for the chisels with straight roller.

[@enhypostasis]

You summed it up nicely: for a regular workshop workflow and the aesthetic feel of an intuitive craftsman using a well-machined stainless steel honing guide, it is the lie nielsen; for someone who doesn't sharpen as often, or needs to save money, or isn't as artisanal purist, then the Veritas zinc alloy and brass holds you in good stead. The Lie Nielsen toolshop video basically makes this case, demonstrating all the ways the tool already deals with the veritas problem-solving approach; it makes the case that it doesn't need to be integral, as it is an heirloom tool for craftsman with skills. If I had started 30 years ago, I would have gone for the Lie Nielsen. As a newbie hobbyist with not much of a workshop or workflow or time to practice proficiency, I went for the Veritas. But I prefer the look and concept of the Lie Nielsen, for sure.

[@colinweir5807]

Firstly I don't have a dedicated workshop. I did have a worn out chisel that I was having issues sharpening with " the Budject Honing Guide". Especially keeping the chisel square. As a work around , I clamped 2 jumbo paddle pop sticks under each side of the "wings" of the guide onto a flat plate. This lifted the wheel just enough. A strip of coarse asbrasive paper between the sticks. Some elbow grease and patience, chisel is now square and sharp.

[@ionut5316]

I bought the LN honing guide and I regret the decision. I discovered a flaw that was confirmed by the manufacturer. The standard jaws won't clamp the LN 1/4" bevel edge chisel as advertised, simple because the side bevels of the 1/4" and subsequently smaller chisels are steeper than the larger counterparts. The jaws clamps the chisel by the narrow face and since the chisel is tapered in thickness, the tip of the chisel moves freely in the jaws. Now I I have to order the chisel jaws as well, a total of 3 pair of jaws(chisel, standard, long). I took some photos, I can share them with anyone interested. I am returning the guide.

[@alasdairreed4370]

Veritas is definitely the best . I've had one for over 15 years it does a great job no screwdriver or extra jig required but I do agree with the comment on the problem with the chisels . The only thing is you must keep the roller oiled the other day after a long time of not using it it I started honing , honed the roller and the blade together . Luckily the replacement roller was cheap ! I like your angle jig.

[@jamescollier2370]

I’ve done that, too. Twice. I bought two replacement rollers from Lee Valley last time to be ready with spare parts next time. I think they were about $15 each, but you have to add tax and shipping to that. Still cheaper than being shut down because you can’t sharpen.

[@Vanderloo5]

Very helpful. Thank You. I just ordered the lie-nielsen

[@MrSteamDragon]

Hi Matt, if you lose the screws out of the veritas then the problem is the user, not the tool 😉😄 Agreed it is a little fiddly to begin with but with frequent use it soon becomes second nature. The main advantage I found was i can put skewed blades in the Veritas (such as a millers falls 07). BTW, great channel.👍🏼🇦🇺

[@GreggsWoodworking]

Just found your page Matt. I've watched a few videos and am impressed. You've taught this old dog a few new tricks. Thanks

[@Bill-hw1iq]

Well done! No nonsense, fast and detailed, this is a refreshing video.

[@MattEstlea]

Awesome, glad to hear you found it useful!

[@MattEstlea]

If you need a refresher on the points made in this video, be sure to visit my blog for a summary of everything I said. www.mattestlea.com/single-post/2017/09/10/Lie-Nielsen-Honing-Guide-vs-Veritas-MKII-Honing-Guide

[@MrEhf111]

Started off with the cheap guide about 15 years ago. Made my own angle set just as you suggested and quickly discovered that it's not as repeatable or versatile as one might think given the 20 or so planes and many chisels requiring sharpening. So I switched to the Veritas when it was first released (I believe mine is a MK 1) about 12 or 13 years ago. It has worked flawlessly all these years. As far as the setup, it's like anything else, do it a few times and it takes seconds.

[@camaro6810]

Man you're producing IMO the best content on Woodworking on KZbin, my new favorite channel!

[@steveforrester2217]

Thanks for the video Matt. Very informative as always. If ever I win the lottery, I'll treat myself to a Veritas one, in the mean time, I'll have to stick to my old Eclipse one I've used for years. Wouldn't be without a guide because I have never mastered sharpening without one!

[@barstad-9591]

Your Tool Duel series is awesome. And I like the name, too.

[@DRusso-sy4vj]

Greetings from Florida, USA! Brilliant video Matt... this was incredibly timely as I have recently narrowed my purchasing decision to these very two honing guides! Keep up the great work! Incidentally, I thoroughly enjoyed watching your creation of "Bertha" videos...very well done! Thanks and best wishes on your channel.

[@MattEstlea]

Why hello there! Glad you found it useful and hopefully gave you a clearer choice of which one to go for. Both great honing guides, just need to work out which one suits your workflow better. Thank you!

[@danthechippie4439]

I purchased the lie- Nielsen guide about a year ago for my Stanley chisels. It works great and I highly recommend it. A bit expensive for sure especially when I had to import it to Ireland

[@gregsharp8601]

A VERY fair and thorough discussion. Thank you for taking the time to make this video. Based on your review I purchased the honing guide that best fits *my* needs. God bless!

[@incognitotorpedo42]

I just sharpened all my chisels using the Veritas Mk II. I had no problem at all with the chisels skewing the the holder. Just my experience. It's complicated, but once you know how to use it it's very reproducible.

[@lelandwight8362]

Similar story here. My chisels and planes have never been this sharp, I don’t know why I waited. Large roller is a plus for me.

[@frankpace6767]

I've been using the Veritas guide for years now with all the accessories. All that "fiddling" never takes me more than a minute or so. Worth the satisfaction of knowing you got it right.

[@tracphil]

Same here. No issues at all. If you can adjust a plane correctly the Veritas is pretty simple in comparison.

[@tcr_tagger3738]

Glad to hear this! I actually enjoy sharpening chisels and irons so don't mind a little ahem...fiddling around...

[@brandontheisen6568]

Me too, we must just understand the physics of turning a knob better than most.

[@brettlinden5002]

Great videos man! breath of fresh air in the woodworking community

[@MattEstlea]

Cheers Brett! Much appreciated mate.

[@243WW]

At $239 for the (Lie-Nielsen) guide with short jaws and the long jaws at $59 I think that I will just buy a whole new set of chisels each time they go blunt. Got to love the prices they charge in Australia!

[@TheLizardOfOz]

You could probably get it shipped from Britain for less than local pricing. I bought a Stanley plane from the UK (postage included) for half the price at Bunnings, which was the cheapest I could find in Oz.

[@martinoamello3017]

Reminds me of harbor freight in the US. It's cheaper to buy entire machines from them than buying just the electric motor. I've bought entire machines just for the motors and scrapped the rest.. Strange how that works..A $50 sander to replace a $150 scroll saw motor..hmmm..

[@johnhandcock3242]

LN stuff is way overpriced! There's no way in hell that they have more than $20 in these guides. Better quality, sure, but that's only true to an extent.

[@inspectr1949]

Not to sure about that comment having been to LN facility in Warren Maine several times, Tom has fortune invested in equipment and personnel not to mention that he is affectionately known as the white shark there always striving for perfection and quality control.

[@SuperCorsair]

I have the cheap guides off amazon and just got the LN guide and wow you really can tell why the LN guides are so much more expensive. You get what you pay for and if its $20 that all you going to get out of those cheap one.

[@janessagrant]

That was my first video I have watched of yours. Really well done! Thank you.

[@Tiny_Island_Designs]

I bought a cheap honing guide and then became obsessed about my diamond and water stones, thinking something was wrong with them because I was getting a frown on my plane blade. It turns out it was the cheap honing guide - I have since bought the LN and the long jaws too. Much happier.

[@j.d.1488]

I use the old Veritas standard guide. Screw knob on top. Works

[@tst3v3ns]

Great review of these products but after checking the price I doubt many "new" woodworkers can afford these. I've used the cheap one and a different (probably older) veritas guide. Neither one gave better results than my hand. in fact, as mentioned in this video, those cheap ones will screw up your blades if you don't do some major filing. If you're new, don't buy any tool new and don't waste money on honing guides, get a set of cheap chisels from a swap-meat and practice sharpening by hand. Great videos Matt. Keep em coming.

[@johnjude2685]

You are very helpful. I'd just got my first guide and that cheap one for under $10, and I'm building my own wood carving gouges so the upgrade model would do perfectly, but doubt if I'll spend the $$$$ You show what is available. That's what I want you to show Great video, Sir. Thanks 😊

[@fussa6013]

great content and appreciate you doing such a thorough job.

[@tomlagatol4448]

Great comparison and equally good camera angles! Thanks.

[@MattEstlea]

Cheers Tom, those are both exactly what I'm trying to achieve here!

[@BeachBoi1000]

Nice advice, I have so much problem sharpening the bench plane straight as a beginner.

[@echtnice1092]

Hi Matt, what a well made, informative and honest video! Thanks a lot! With best regards from switzerland.

[@waynebrown107]

I own the Veritas and love it. Excellent video but can you add an additional video on what the dimensions are or instructions on how to calculate them for the protrusion stop tool. Thanks and keep up the excellent tutorials.

[@billyblackie9417]

Very interesting Matt, can you show how to make the jug showing the angles written on it please? I'm in my 60s and having a problem fixing my blade into my honing guide and check if the blade if fitted for the proper angle. Thanks

[@whomadethatsaltysoup]

Hi Matt, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with sharpening. I have owned the Veritas MkII honing guide for years, but just couldn't get decent results with my chisels or even block plane irons. Like everyone else on the planet, I am not a fan of sharpening. Alas, I'm also not a fan of using blunt tools. So, over the years, I've tried various sharpening systems, including the terrible Trend sliding thingy, and always ended up back with my decade's old Eclipse. I was very pleased to see that Veritas have come out with a side clamping attachment for the MKII, but at 56 quid plus postage...No danger! I mean, that would bring the price of the Veritas system up to nearly £200. However, I also noticed that they have an Eclipse style side clamping honing guide that I was able to source here in the UK for £36 - including postage. I have tried it on my low angle plane iron, as well as on several chisels, and it is an absolute pleasure to use. Extremely comfortable and stable grip, resulting in super sharp tools. Anyway, thanks again for sharing. Much appreciated!👍

[@flt528]

This was very helpful - thank you. I went with the Lie Neilson and I'm very happy with it. Pricey, but buy once cry once I guess. I have enough little tiny bits for my various planes and I agree that the Veritas looks painfully fiddly.

[@SaintFredrocks]

The Veritas isn't fiddly at all actually. After you take a couple minutes to see how it works it is very quick and simple to set it up and use.

[@steverochon1620]

Love your videos Matt. But you missed the attachment Veritas makes that'll pour you a pint when it's attached to the standard guide. More often than not, it'll cut the sharpening session short. In response, LN is working on a prototype that pours scotch. Works fine if you take it neat, but they struggle if you want a few rocks in your sharpening...I mean scotch.

[@MattEstlea]

Oh bugger, those are my favourite attachments! How the hell did I forget those?!

[@jan-reiniervoute6701]

Steven Rochon, rocks in your scotch? Sacrrriledge.

[@steverochon1620]

Not in my scotch Jan-Reinier Voute, that's just one of the LN approaches with which I would disagree.

[@lukasmiglbauer915]

Which one?

[@brianm.9451]

I have the Mk II and despite its fiddliness, it's accurate and it works well. I use it when I'm sharpening Hugh angle blades. Otherwise, I prefer freehand.

[@MattEstlea]

Can't deny its accuracy when using a suitable attachment!

[@GeorgeLowrey]

Very thorough review. Thanks!

[@MattEstlea]

Cheers George!

[@jamescollier2370]

I have the Veritas Mark II. It’s taken a long slow learning curve, but I’ve sort of mastered it. What helped was keeping a very small square to hand to make sure the tool is square in the jig before honing. Also, I had to recondition my brain to “not push down hard”. The other issue I have is forgetting to check which way the roller cam is set, resulting in starting a new bevel angle. Not so bad if you are honing to a steeper angle; but if you inadvertently back off the angle and start a shallower hone, you’ve faceted your iron without sharpening the cutting edge until the entire bevel is lapped. That’s why I always use lapping fluid (a blue wide-tip Sharpie) to check where the bevel is contacting the stone. Just accept that sharpening is boring and take short cuts, i.e., micro-bevels, Charlesworth’s ruler trick, anything to keep your honing just near the cutting edge because removing a full bevel takes away all enjoyment.

[@pgfollett]

Really good, clear, concise review. Thank you for not making it complicated! FWW has a good little video for "tuning up" the el cheapo guide to make it a bit more accurate; worth the watch.

[@pgfollett]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3OrlWqua96GibM

[@MattEstlea]

Brilliant, that's great to hear! Yes I saw something similar from Deneb Puchalski of Lie-Nielsen before they released their own version. It's how I got away with using that cheap honing guide for 4 years before upgrading it! Cheers mate

[@josiahutah3712]

Helpful?! Yes! Thank you! Do you know much about the woodpecker‘s version? And how it compares?

[@czokalapik]

While I'm freehand person, I love the video, but you may consider explaining HOW to actually make your protrusion stop, it may be simple for some, but I saw numerous questions on forums on how to do it.

[@smashy152]

basic trigonometry

[@peckelhaze6934]

I have the Veritas Honing Jig and wouldn't be without it. It takes me less than 30 seconds to insert blade and be ready to hone the blade.

[@oscar38]

🤔 not 30 mins ?

[@Sean-qk5mv]

@@oscar38 probably not. I've recently got a veritas and its dead easy to set up & use.

[@lemagreengreen]

I found an original eclipse for £5 in a salvage yard, still works great.

[@1thomaja]

Ah! A shim... I hadn't thought of that! Top tip. Thanks. As long as it's the same ever time it's great.

[@andrewmcgillivray1881]

as so often, it's a horse race. Both guides (as well as the "no guide" method) have their advantages. I own the Veritas guide and find it very versatile and not the least fiddly. the wider roller on the Veritas jig sits better on my water stones. The Lie-Nielsen (btw way Matt, his first name is pronounced "Lee" not "Lye") is more straight forward but also specialised a bit for Lie-Nielsen tools. I have an old Eclipse guide as well which I keep in my tool box, which i do use from time the time. I have discovered that we woodworkers get the procedure bassackwards, i used to sharpen my tools after I was finished working with them, like most other people. Now sharpening / honing is done before I even start cutting. (see James Krenov or Frank Klausz) It's the first step, not the last step in my daily practice. A few quick stokes and my blades are ready to go. I liked your comment that dulling tools is way more fun than sharpening tools. thanks for your insights and a great video!

[@dbach4891]

Actually, his first name is Tom. :)

[@scottbrown3444]

good clear lesson. very helpful. thanks

[@kantarjiev]

Thanks for this Matt - I wonder if you might revisit this to compare the (new?) Veritas side clamping guide...

[@shannonm4664]

Great video. Very well done. Can't wait for more. Thank you.

[@doozydave5639]

Shannon M I

[@qqkk5581]

Do you have a video to build the protrusion stop?

[@Sean-qk5mv]

Really?

[@guyroseen7025]

Love your videos brother. Thanks for generously sharing your knowledge. I can’t afford either of the premium guides at this time but I can’t help but notice you went to an awful amount of effort to discredit those gigantic brass fasteners on the veritas. Do you often lose all the loose parts you had to disassemble in the plane to get the iron out? How many well designed tools come with ‘captured’ fasteners? I believe you are credible but it might do you well to take a look at your bias. You have a large audience and well deserved respect. Don’t let us lose respect for you over silliness! We are looking up to you. Again, I’m grateful for all your advice and expertise. You have a great gift!

[@johnpatterson9829]

Thank you very much, this has most clearly enabled me to sort my wonky guide.

[@paddyo242]

I have all the guides you tested and the lie neilson wins hands down.

[@ericwiltz6584]

very nice production. With the Veritas, simply put a strip of take over each clamp side and this will assist in holding the chisel in place.

[@irisborg]

A good overview. Looking forward to more "tool duel". :)

[@MattEstlea]

Cheers Thomas. God it feels so cheesy saying 'Tool Duel' but I love it!

[@richardetherington5792]

Thomas Lombert i

[@gav2759]

He is absolutely correct, get yourself a honing guide. Pay no attention to those KZbin advocates of free hand honing, whatever their credentials. I learned freehand as an apprentice, when guides were unheard of and sneered at when they first appeared. It is nothing but woodworking snobbery. Be content in the knowledge the very best freehander cannot possibly replicate the accuracy of even a modestly priced guide. Incidentally if you were to purchase the Lie Nielsen guide and all the jaw options you would be shelling out c. £360. I have used a genuine Eclipse for many years (without the issues Matt pointed out), with various shop made adaptations, for a range of blades and chisels.

[@Ed-lz4jv]

yeah and every fucking surface on your chisel has to be mirror finish LOL They keep them in a glass case and show it off to anyone who enters

[@robertnicholson7733]

I have used the Eclipse (made by Eclipse) guide for a very long time. I modified it with a file fairly early on so that it took all my chisels and plane blades (the HSS blade for the corrugated, wide sole, No7 Stanley only just fits). Once I have marked the required blade outline with a marker (for a jointer, straight and square), I can shape the blade exactly as I want it without problem. I have tried the Veritas and can't say the outcome was any better or faster, speed wise, indeed, quite the opposite. After using the Eclipse for so long, it is second nature, perhaps my problems with the Veritas were that I have become so used to the simplicity of the Eclipse. I have bought a couple of cheap Chinese copies of the Eclipse guide (when I couldn't find the Eclipse, amazing how it moves around of its own volition), one of which was stainless steel and quite well made, probably better than the original Eclipse. I was surprised that Matt just discarded the Eclipse style out of hand, despite the solution to the problem he cited requiring no more than a few minutes with a mill saw file.

[@paulcastro1361]

Exquisite explanation. Thanks for your instructions.

[@AssafOppenheimer]

@mattestlea thanks for the video I do have a question though - will the Lie Nielsen handle veritas blades and chisels? or are they not compatible? what about the veritas skewed rabbet planes can they work with the Lie Nielsen with the skew guide?

[@charleswatson5313]

Vérités versus Lie Nielsen. I’ve owned both but gave the Veritas one to my son in law. It was too fiddly to set up if i failed to tighten down the bar correctly the blade would shift.

[@vkbellis]

Thank you Matt for making this video and for your replies to comments. At about 07:12 in this video, and in other spots, you use an elegant little doorknob-like device to tighten the screw holding the honed item. Where did you find that; how was it made? Is it simply a short screw driver or teeth also grabbing the knurl?

[@BirdmanNorfolk]

Hi MattWatched your shizzle, sharpening video, if there's one thing a man needs it's a sharp shizzle! seriously though excellent vid, and I had been having a frustrating morning with a very blunt and misshapen chisel, not only was your demo helpful, but your fluff gave me a laugh when I needed one!

[@MattEstlea]

Quality, that's what I like to hear! Informative and entertaining is what I'm going for. Cheers mate!

[@frs8349]

Matt, Right from the beginning of the video, I just knew you were about to recommend the LN...

[@trudi1962]

I've had a Veritas in my Amazon 'wish list' for months (trying to justify the price). Thanks for saving me the money ❤️❤️

[@mwrcrft]

Great video I have had the MKII system for many years and have all the attachments also have the MKI and have never been especially happy with it's plane blade sharpening and it's spoke shave is nonexistent. I have practiced hand sharpening during shutdown but it's no fun. I just ordered the Lie Nielsen guide and long fingers, thanks for the side by side comparison.

[@stephenmcquiston7141]

Quick question - angle guide set up - whats are the different lenghts to make a similar tool/guide

[@stenmoeller]

I am always fascinated by men's need for duels. I have both of these (but not all the Lie-Nielsen accessories (pronounced Lee-Nilsen - it's Danish from the beginning, which we should respect) and enjoy the advantages of both. I think it is more about how you operate and what you perceive as fiddly. I never even thought about the Veritas as fiddly until told here that it is. But I still don't think of it as fiddly. It's just different.

[@terrorfirma2764]

Tbh both systems are extremely expensive and probably out of reach of quite a few hobby woodworkers. It is also hard to see why the Lie Nielsen is more than 10 X the price of the budget guide. Sometimes I really think tool companies fix prices according to their name.

[@jc51373]

The biggest issue for boutique tool makers like Lie Nielsen riding this renaissance wave in hand tools is the barriers to entry. Most people will just impulse buy the hand plane they want to gawk at, and THEN realize they need to sharpen the thing to continue using it. Some may not and understand the importance of sharpening before buying the tool but most will not and then resent the tool and throw it aside. People need to know there is a minimum of $300 in sharpening expenses before you get into hand tools. For some, they will just stick to power tools because of it..LN should treat some of their sharpening equipment (e.g. honing guide) as loss leaders and just jack up the price of a hand tool to make up for it to grab as many new users as possible.

[@1pcfred]

@@jc51373 you have to be new to pay what Lie-Nielsen charges for their tools.

[@avrumisolaimani8546]

when this vid released a bit of work and they the same in 2020 from taytools the budget one is perfect out of the package

[@wm.perrykillam4243]

Thanks for the thorough review of the honing guides... and "dog's dinner" expression. I think that approximate price of the tools plus attachments would have been a helpful piece of information. I assume that neither one is cheap.

[@TubeOzaurus]

Hey, Matt, you're passing easily over a hugely important aspect of your comparison. The perfection of geometrical positioning of the chisels or blades (especially narrow chisels, as you said). I bought a cheapo 20€ adapter, very similar to your 10£ one (the only difference: a wider roller wheel) and got immensely disappointed even as a beginner in sharpening! The protrusion is as constant as I am making it, but lateral angles are awful, even random between uses. If I try to rehone, I am actually forced to resharpen completely again, with a different lateral angle of bevel(s). I checked the geometries of the jig and turn out it is a mockery. Guess it gets clear why those 'Lee Nielsen" & "Veritas" jigs are expensive... No good job without them.

[@wilkbor]

This is the best sharpening video I've seen in a very long time. So I'm grateful for that., and plan to listen to this video a few more times to get it all. I do have a few follow up questions: At one point in the video, you referenced a tertiary bevel. What is the purpose of a tertiary bevel? If two bevels are better than one and three are better than two, would four bevels be better than three? How many bevels do you need to have on a blade? At what point does producing more bevels become more work than the benefit? Again, I'm grateful for the video and look forward to others.

[@dubtownman9508]

The best review I've ever seen

[@donaldcallahan450]

yes explain how to make your protrusion stop since i strugle with shaping myself as a new woodworker thanks and i enjoy your videos thanks

[@Swarm509]

Old comment but they are just a length that gives you an angle once clamped down, so it will vary with whatever kind of holder you have. You can use trigomarty to figure out what length you need (height being from the underside of roller to top of blade) but I usually just use an angle finder and adjust the blade in and out till I hit what I need and write that down.

[@tjbrison]

I have to agree with a lot of what's been said - but I started hand sharpening a couple of years ago and have never looked back. I can sharpen a chisel so fast now - (almost !) before you have found and adjusted the jig I'm ready to go with a chisel that could split atoms. (At least, that's what I like to think :-) It really doesn't take long to learn hand sharpening - and it's so much faster. If you're after sharpness that could separate the wings of a fly, use a jig and a series of Shapton stones - or similar. If you just want to get on with woodworking, after using a cheap Eclipse jig for a while, try hand sharpening and never look back. (Paul Sellers has an excellent video).

[@Swarm509]

I am using the Paul Sellers video for a guideline as well. I have a Veritas mk1 honing guide right now to get exact angles as needed though. I'm just starting hand hand sharpening but the key seems to be consistent with your movement, even if that isn't a perfect angle you have to keep it repeatable. If I screw up I get out the guide and reset everything. I don't think it is bad to use the guide though as the options we have now are quite good and so long as you are happy with the result that is all that matters. I sure as hell love the guide when fixing up old chisels and planes!

[@brownjh91]

Very helpful Matt -- just found your channel, will subscribe. Thanks!

[@anchor4346]

I actually like the fiddley one. But I have the cheap one too.. I cut and angle on each side to stop the blade from cocking up. By the way, You may have run through it quickly but have done yourself justly with how well you covered the subject.

[@MattEstlea]

Yea I had to do something similar to mine before the Lie-Nielsen became available. But it's great to hear you found the video useful. That's why I'm here! Cheers Andy.

[@Kikilang60]

Thanks, great video. I've found that if your not careful, the cheap sharping guide can sometime hold weird shaped chisel out of square. I've sharped a new set of chisels, and when I finished, found all of them not square.

[@keirfarnum6811]

I bought a cheap eclipse style guide and the guide rods were not straight. I had to bend one back to as straight as I could but I found I still have to use pieces of paper to get blades to sit square. I also had to file the body to get it to fit various blades. I made it work, but it took a ridiculous amount of work to get it there.

[@lafamillecarrington]

I'm in the middle of converting my garden trowels to proper, sharp chisels. I wish I'd bought my honing guide years ago! One thing you didn't mention, was that you can buy guides with two wheels to prevent rocking - what do you think of them?

[@andrewanderson3472]

The narrow wheels on the Lee neilsone also tends to wear a groove in a stone , not a problem with a diamond stone

[@fogsmart]

Well for those that don’t like fiddly, free hand is about as simple as it gets…and if I am going to buy and use a honing guide I want a wider rolling wheel especially on narrow chisels.

[@gedog77]

Oh... I bought the Rider eclipse guide. My chisels are sharp but not square, my bullnose plane had to go back cos it wasn't square enough to cut. The only blade that has survived that guide is my Veritas low angle jack. I have the Veritas on order - I don't mind the fiddle, I do mind getting a shiny bevel that's not close to square and then nothing works... I'm very able to screw up my dovetails without added help :-)

[@kitwalker303]

Where did you get the screwdriver that you use to adjust the honing guides? I think it’s cool

[@stevem268]

i'm a big fan of the veritas line of tools, partially because i am a canadian! yes that veritas guide is fiddly for sure. i've been using the much simpler MK1 for 20 years, same quality but far far simpler

[@camoujeep]

One other pain with the Veritas is that after tightening the heck out of the gnurled brass knobs, ive had to often use pliers to loosen them

[@farikomike524]

I have the same issue :-( Do you have the issue with the secondary bevel being ground on a slight angle?

[@bufordmobley2283]

in your opinion which is better the Lie Nielsen or Bridge City Toolworks?

[@briancarroll6803]

Lie Nielsen. Bridge City used to be awesome but since moving their manufacturing over seas they just aren't the same