Discussing HOBB & ABERCROMBIE & MARTIN with Jimmy

[@TheKmahrt]

Loved this discussion! Thanks for all the interesting comparisons and thoughtful insights. Probably one of my favorite discussions lately! Neat topic idea

[@LienesLibrary]

thanks - glad you enjoyed!

[@BasalThor]

This was a great conversation ! I liked it very much and hopefully you two will have more of this kind of discussions! You two made so many good points about these books. And you have given me a lot of appetite to start reading the books of other authors mentioned: Brown, Rothfuss, Ruocchio,... Thank you !

[@LienesLibrary]

glad you enjoyed! and yes! definitely read those others as well, top tier

[@derrisreaditbefore]

thanks for having us Liene ❤

[@LienesLibrary]

my absolute pleasure 🧡

[@fourthofthesky]

I went into this live thinking that I would watch like 2 hours and then dip because of spoilers for First Law, but you guys did 3 and a half hours of spoiler-free!! That's impressive!! I'm probably gonna move up First Law because of this live!

[@LienesLibrary]

We both thought we’d need to dive into spoilers eventually but nope!

[@osoisko1933]

OMG, I left like 10 minutes before it ended. 😆 Anyways great discussion after seeing it from beginning to end.

[@LienesLibrary]

glad you enjoyed!

[@ddookhar]

I liked that you guys touched on how to view the quality of prose and here's why i think Hobb's is the "best" of these 3: Hobb's prose doesn't "stand out". You described Abercrombie's attention to structure and ability to craft sentences as something that really sticks with you and it's true. but with Hobb, most of her prose sits behind the experience of the story and being unobtrusive without ever being simplistic or dumbed down. And that is a level of elegance that just isn't appreciated as much as abercrombie's more blunt/provocative style.

[@LienesLibrary]

I do think Abercrombie has very elegant prose at times as well, it isn't just blunt and aggressive there is a of subtlety in it too - but I do get what you mean about Hobb's prose "sitting behind the experience of the story" and I love that too

[@fatefulryuk4886]

In an odd way I enjoyed the intro chapter in the blade itself for Glokta. Who knew I would enjoy a chapter of a man just making it down some stairs.

[@LienesLibrary]

because Abercrombie is the best 🥳

[@vaughnroycroft999]

Just want to thank you two for this thoughtful discussion. They're three of my favorites to read, but they're also--hands down--the three biggest influences on my own work as a writer. You both gave me so much to think about here, as to why that is, and what it means going forward. Here's to their inspiration. And to yours. Cheers!

[@LienesLibrary]

thank you for the kind words! these authors just give us such rich material that it almost unpacks itself which is a marvel

[@sandywilkie1671]

Great video will definitely adding Robin Hobb after I finish the First Law trilogy

[@LienesLibrary]

yes! hope you enjoy!

[@mellies.8822]

I'm always interested in books that others call boring 😄 I actually love Abraham's first books.

[@SniperDiplomat]

I decided to finally read The Sorcerer's Apprentice because of this, and... you guys are right. It's really impressive how quickly the book sets up characters, establishes their extremely distinct voices and still leaves room for doubt about what their intentions really are. First person perspective isn't usually my favorite in fiction but Hobb nails the feeling of it being a monologue so hard so it doesn't feel like a gimmick. It does get kind of frustrating that Fitz mentions that he knows (obvious villain) is a villain and planning to kill him, and just chooses to go along with said villain's orders over and over with no contingency plan. It's not even naivety since he's fully aware they're going to betray him. It's a strange choice.

[@currangill430]

Is this a different version of Robin Hobb's books? I've never heard of sorcerer's apprentice

[@alanatuimala86]

Alright, you both have convinced me to finally check out Robin Hobb.

[@LienesLibrary]

woohoo! our work here is done

[@jordankenny3766]

I’m on Best Served Cold for Abercrombie and Liveship Traders for Hobb. Haven’t read any ASOIAF yet (waiting for at least winds of winter haha).

[@LienesLibrary]

that'll be a long wait 🥲

[@jordankenny3766]

@@LienesLibrary 😭

[@julieevans6482]

If ya'll love "boring" books, I recommend Kushiel's Dart. The writing style is so gorgeous and it's quite slow-moving. It has BDSM elements but they barely matter after the 25% mark, the sex scenes are quite short and grow shorter every time. But you really need to get into the history/lore within the first ~20% to understand the political conflicts

[@LienesLibrary]

I've heard good things about that one

[@thatsci-firogue]

You're right about who should and shouldn't be point of view characters, and I couldn't agree more with using Jack Sparrow as an example. The first Pirates of the Caribbean film is by far the best of them (in my opinion) because how the writers and director(s?) held Jack back. Not to mention he's a subversion of the mentor archetype. He's more interesting that way. Phenomenal side character, meh main character, for me anyway.

[@LienesLibrary]

yeah a lot of films, shows, and books have made that mistake - of taking a beloved side character and making them a main character and it almost never works out

[@EricMcLuen]

For full disclosure I have read the ASOIAF, Liveship only and no Ambercombie - he is after a few other books. This was an interesting compare and contrast of the authors so a few random comments. I do agree it is frustrating when it seems like pages/chapters just get added to a booknor series because the author thought it was cool. This is one of my main issues with Tad Williams in MST and more pronounced in Otherlands. And Dance of Dragons seemed like a lot of notes jut thrown into a book with little cohesion. The splitting of the last two books did not help. This might change if/when I read them all again if/when Winds come out. Hobb's characterwrk is impeccable as she did hold my interest in a series essentially about spoiled teenagers. And without going into spoilers, I could argue Liveships is an example of being grimdark without gratuitous sex and violence. I am curious to see if this tone holds in the rest of the series. And regarding names in Dune, a lot of the terms are 'real' things, usually Arabic or Semetic, which add a lot to the story. Mahdi, jihad, or why an Orange Catholic Bible is an odd combination.

[@LienesLibrary]

i do know a lot of the words/names in Dune are pulled from other languages, but he still invented many cool ones and just in general put a lot of thought into the sound of things in his world

[@thirdspacemaker9141]

Great discussion! I do not want Jaime’s kingslaying story. I think that falls under the category of the answer would be less interesting than the mystery. Re: “just get through the slog” I am relatively new to fantasy, started exploring for things like ASOIAF after Feast but before Dance was released. (Yes, I know that was like 12 years ago, but I’m a slow reader and have only seriously turned my attention to it in the last 18 months or so.) Telling me to just get through the slog or it gets good in book 6 is the perfect way to tell me that your favorite author isn’t very good and I’m passing. Life is too short, especially for a slow reader. I will DNF pretty fast. DNF’d Way of Kings at like 150. Wheel of Time will probably never be on my TBR. That is one reason that I have been slow to try First Law because it sounds like you have to commit to the first trilogy. I have been trying many first books in series. With Assassin’s Apprentice, it is clear that Hobb is a master of the highest rank.

[@wwfix3224]

You could always start with Bedt Served Colf

[@LienesLibrary]

I think people blow the "slog" of First Law out of proportion - it's more that there's no clear end point or goal that things are driving towards so it's hard to gauge the point of things you're seeing or how close/far you are from some kind of resolution, but the journey and character work is spectacular so it you're okay with not exactly knowing where things are going it's not a "slog" at all

[@thirdspacemaker9141]

@@LienesLibrary Thanks for the reply! With “slog” I was referring to WoT. I have never heard anyone refer to First Law as a slog, just not plot heavy and no conclusion to the first book only the trilogy. I think I’m moving it closer to the top of my list. As soon as I finish The Price of Spring, I think I’m gonna start The Blade Itself, The Grace of Kings, The Winter King, or Age of Ash.

[@mp9810]

Really enjoyed the conversation. Bit of constructive feedback for Liene - you interrupt quite a bit, when he's only starting to make his point. As a listener, it's frustrating for a couple reasons. 1. We sometimes never get the more nuanced point that you didn't wait to hear. We then get a too-simple conversation on whatever point he was going to expand on. 2. It just seems a little rude 😊.

[@JohnnyWrongo-b9l]

You guys are costing me money. OK, money I would have spent on books anyway. I Have been reading Hobb, recently finished the Farseer trilogy and am into The Fool's errand. Saving Live Ships for later. Of the three writers the only one I am not at all familiar with is Abercrombie. I paused this while ordering The Blade Itself. Given how much I love Hobb and Martin, I expect to at least like Abercrombie and my sister can stop beseeching me to check him out.

[@LienesLibrary]

Abercrombie is my personal fave, so I'm hoping you love it!

[@camerontaylor4008]

Wait, it’s not the fantasy network?

[@LienesLibrary]

lol nope

[@arlissbunny]

I’m not a Sanderson expert but I thought his inspiration for interconnected worlds was Terry Pratchett. I would appreciate the correction if I’m wrong.

[@arlissbunny]

Oh! And the world with only one swear word is, I believe, Utah.

[@melleroy7341]

Just started watching this discussion and I wish the 'if you like one you'll probably like the others' thing were true... I really like Martin but couldn't get past chapter 1 of First Law because of the edgy humor of the writing style (probably intentional but it's just not something I enjoy). And I dnfed assassin's apprentice some years ago because I was really bored, I felt like Hobb was skipping the interesting stuff and giving us too much of everything else... I'm bummed out though, I wish I could enjoy them as much as everyone else seems to since I'm always on the lookout for new series to binge

[@arlissbunny]

I would love to see Broken Earth compared to Dune since they are both so tightly focused on environment.

[@ducky36F]

People that try to claim Abercrombie and Martin aren’t fantasy and that Martin isn’t grimdark is just ridiculous.

[@LienesLibrary]

agreed

[@conorsowersby1274]

I love Abercrombie and I’m indifferent about Hobb. I don’t like Abercrombie because he’s “stabby stabby” or because I think he’s an edge lord. I like his characters and dialogue and action. Hobb meanders and skips over the parts she’s been building up for and re-caps them after the fact. She also drags out menial tasks so it’s frustrating when she takes 1 page to write a battle scene. Her pacing is atrocious.

[@LienesLibrary]

atrocious seems a bit harsh but mileage varies, I personally enjoy Hobb a great deal

[@thefantasynuttwork]

Yeah I'd strongly disagree but to each their own

[@godmathias]

Well, that's like... your opinion, man.