Why expats and not immigrants in Thailand? kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3bTlKmZe7t2epIsi=FVz0dDBKvEJS5vBA 🌐 Get SURFSHARK VPN at surfshark.deals/BAMBOO Enter promo code BAMBOO for an exclusive Surfshark discount and 3 extra months for free! Note: I have my hat on because I have a cut on my head 👍 Of course these costs only apply to Brenden & Laurel living in a rural area and a greatly impacted by location, lifestyle and family size. Bren and Laurels Channel: www.youtube.com/@ThePilgrimsProcess Their latest video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGqWk6Ruot-LmKs
@MrTraveller. Жыл бұрын
Great 👍🏽 Thanks.
@johnsureemee5857 Жыл бұрын
Expat offers all the rewards of living in Thailand. Immigrant is significantly more difficult to achieve and not enough of a gain over expat status.
@jamelb2230 Жыл бұрын
EXPATS 😂😂😂😂 🤣🤣🤣🤣 you mean migrants
@TabithaJones-rg9ig Жыл бұрын
Greetings from California...thank you for sharing....what a lovely couple....so sweet and genuine.
@TabithaJones-rg9ig Жыл бұрын
One other thing...I pay $1500 for a small single apartment near the beach....I am 74 and still must work to pay bills. It is lovely to see young people with good values.
@billwood5540 Жыл бұрын
I (American) lived in Thailand for 8 years. We (wife and family), still own a home in Huay Yai and visit occasionally. My advise, never base your opinion on anything in Thailand from what you read in the comments section of any social media. For the same reason you shouldn't base your stock picks on anything you read in the comments section of a stock website. When I lived there, I would occasionally visit the farang blogs to get a sense of what people were saying, to see if it connected with what I was experiencing. It pretty much always left be depressed. Kind of like doom scrolling American political media. So much misinformation. Visit Thailand. See for yourself. Trust your own instincts. Some love it. Some hate it. As with everything else.
@happycook6737 Жыл бұрын
True!
@John_GGG Жыл бұрын
Plastics!
@may-maytanymaytany_s3417 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your eyes opening comments. Really appreciated. Truth,honest,thanks 🙏
@orlandoheavener8932 Жыл бұрын
Good comment
@cheguevara556011 ай бұрын
That is the most solid advice in this comment section . Every person experience is different in any country
@BrandenLesko Жыл бұрын
Expats aren't the only ones seeking a rural living lifestyle. Thais in the big cities are also seeking to escape to the serenity of rural Thailand. The cost of living may be higher than in the past, but the cost of living has also risen in every other part of the world. It's still very affordable to live in Thailand. Good to see this couple take advantage of an opportunity to make a positive life style change from the unhappy daily grind of their old life. 👍
@lifeinruralthailand Жыл бұрын
Quite right 🙏
@eduardochavacano Жыл бұрын
Expats now want to vlog. Every old white man in the Philippines is vlogging. Nobody wants to live offline anymore.
@walkaz Жыл бұрын
I say this all the time Foreigners are always looking to live the dream that Thais are trying to escape
@bierfuerall Жыл бұрын
I believe you wanted to say Immigrants, not sure what an Expat is
@lifeinruralthailand Жыл бұрын
No he means expats - video In the pinned comment as to why. We are referred to as non-immigrants on Thailand categorically by the government
@sarinlv Жыл бұрын
6000 Bath per month??? That’s super good! What a deal? I’ve been living in Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A., since 1989 until this present! I pay about $2500 or more per month(around 87,000 or more baht per month)! One of these days, I’ll be going back to my country, Thailand! One of these days! Best wishes for you guys! Take care and enjoy everything in Thailand 🙏😊❤️❤️
@happycook6737 Жыл бұрын
Las Vegas is too expensive. It is like California. 💰💰💰
@ThePilgrimsProcess Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for visiting us Ryan! It was such a pleasure to spend the afternoon with you :)
@lifeinruralthailand Жыл бұрын
My pleasure - great fun guys! 🙏😊🇹🇭
@suarsivapong9311 Жыл бұрын
You guys have to learn how to cook Thai food. It will give you guys more. Increased understanding of how to live in a Thai way.🙏❤️
@MHOD82 Жыл бұрын
So happy for you guys 😊
@takeadeepbreath6053 Жыл бұрын
I just want to compliment what amazing couple you are. You have the vision and courage to do what 99.9 percent of people wish they could. Especially when you’re still young, which in my opinion is the toughest period, but also best time. Enjoy your experience and best of luck and heath to you both. No matter what happens next, you’re already way ahead ❤
@kensanders0088 Жыл бұрын
I live in Chanthaburi, we have a little fruit farm, most expenses have gone up, inflation around the world, but still much much cheaper than USA!!!
@socialinfluencing Жыл бұрын
Their situation looks interesting. If you're young it may not be so bad, but they are pretty much just camping with the critters in the house. If you don't mind cobras sneaking in for a visit, it looks ok. If you like living 3rd world style, suit yourself. If you like sweating all day and night while sitting in front of a fan, you'll love this living condition. But as you get older and want to retire, you may want some "first world" creature comforts. When the neighbors come to cut your grass, they take the grass to feed their cows. They're not doing it because they like you. I retired to live in Thailand. The good..............I lived with my Thai wife in the U.S. for 12 years. Her mother is getting old and had an extra house, so we moved to the south of Thailand to her farm. It was a typical third world house. Full of mosquitos, venomous centipedes, rats, poisonous snakes, scorpions, giant spiders (bigger than your hand) millions of ants, and some house lizards etc. If this sounds good to you, you'll like the above lifestyle. I replaced the roof framing, windows, doors, electrical, plumbing, built brick walls, and bought 150 tubes of caulk to fill all the cracks that were everywhere. I tore out the third world kitchen, and made a "first world" one with a 4 burner stove/oven, 4 door refrigerator, $300 double sink, water purifier, pantry, lighting, new counters, and a huge island (8' x 10') . I added 2 full western bathrooms, and 5 air conditioners in the now 3 bedroom house. We spent $20,000. I did all the work myself. Our electricity is $70 a month. There are no insects in our home now. Our income is $40 a day. More than enough. My new project is a 10' x 45' indoor lap pool. The bad.................Everyone thinks you're rich like in the Hollywood movies. They want to borrow your money and not pay you back.
@swhiting100 Жыл бұрын
I'm so impressed! I agree with you about the wildlife. And mosquitos alone would kill me in this place. And no AC. I've lived in Chiang Mai for 6 months most years since 2015 and almost always rent a condo just to avoid dengue and heatstroke!
@happycook6737 Жыл бұрын
You speak the truth sir! I hope others are listening.
@nygardenguru Жыл бұрын
Thanks lol
@evoxpop208811 ай бұрын
The moment you show a little bit of $$$ by doing things to improve your house or living, they become leeches and want your $$$.
@LK-dm7kx8 ай бұрын
Yes
@BillonBass Жыл бұрын
Having moved here from the US about two years ago with my Thai wife of 15 years, I have to say Thailand seems incredibly cheap compared to the US. I was easily able to retire comfortably in the US, but here we literally live like royalty! Everybody is different but from my perspective I can’t believe how cheap it is here! Bought several very nice properties as a home and investments at a fraction of the cost in the US but kicking off great rents here in Hua Hin. I will say though I admire you younger folks living these rural lives here and making it work very well! A bit too remote for us but I get the allure of a simpler life in nature.
@thomasmckenney3518 Жыл бұрын
Very nice!!!!
@solrosenberg4529 Жыл бұрын
Saw something about the cost of living in the US where one lemon costs three dollars forty cents which is a hundred and twenty baht 😧 What does a lemon cost in Thailand? Ten baht maybe.
@ksem_ch3186 Жыл бұрын
@@solrosenberg4529 Lime is 1-5 baht per unit, big yellow lemons are rare, they cost about 20-30 per unit. Though, there are plenty of lime trees where you can pick it up for free, you can just put some seeds from the lemon you ate into the earth and here you go. Everything grows here like on steroids.
@JourneyinThailand Жыл бұрын
I'm living on a small farm in Sakhonakhon Province. Built a house on 4 rai. No mortgage. No property taxes. Self sufficient. Can eat for $3.00 a day. $10.00 a month for gas for motorcycle. 6 fish ponds, a few hundred fruit trees. Growing sticky rice. The only downside is Extreme isolation, language , false sense of safety.
@cbs1963 Жыл бұрын
@@JourneyinThailandand the other one is if you have a medical emergency. Unless you are in or near a big city in Thailand your medical treatment will be well below what you're accustomed to in the West.
@eduardochavacano Жыл бұрын
The Vloggers inspire so many Canadians and Americans to come to Thailand and become vloggers. So now Thailand will become too expensive for Real Travelers.
@AleeshaSattva Жыл бұрын
Did you know that (before Covid) Bangkok alone had 5 million tourists yearly so don't worry... there's plenty of "inexpensive" to go around!
@carolinekamya2339 Жыл бұрын
yep 😞and too expensive for locals
@mimi1o8 Жыл бұрын
It’s happening all over, whatever bloggers move and promote it becomes gentrified, lots of complaints in Portugal and Mexico about it . The locals aren’t happy of course.
@americanandpinay9 ай бұрын
A lot of it is the sugar wars, the war in Ukraine, and leftover Covid inflation. But you are correct. In the Philippines, I see Filipinos getting greedy. Selling properties to foreigners who don't know any better at 10-20x the value they were 5 years ago. My wife found a lot for 990,000 that she liked. She'd been out there and spoke to the family once. I went out to look with her a week later. They saw me and decided that the price was 990,000,000 because they had a neighbor do similar and thought they'd get away with it. 6 years and it's only happened to me in the market one time before, but this was outrageous enough I told them it was wrong and left. I usually hold my tongue and go beyond to treat Filipinos with respect, but this was one case I couldn't. In truth, these places are cheap if you live like lower middle class citizen. If you expect luxury, ketchup, and a western life you'll pay double for it.
@toasterovens2384 Жыл бұрын
I know someone who has lived in Thailand over 14 years. Moved out of BKK about 15 months ago to the countryside and is renting a 2 bed 1 bath house with kitchen and living room in a gated community. His rent increased only 1 hundred dollars or about 3000 THB. When comparing what he pays in Thailand for rent and where he lived in the US the US is 10 times more expensive. From 300usd per month in Thailand which concludes utilities to 3000usd per month in the US without utilities. I'd say Thailand is still affordable for the average person.
@llothar68 Жыл бұрын
THe US is definitely not a place to compare any cost of living with. Your country is stupid and fucked.
@Pattaya251011 ай бұрын
If you stay solo(no marriage/no live together,no lasies,no children)(no sex and alcoholic (too much)and other drugs) it s possible to live in Thailand,the biggest killer is the health insurance(when you stay forever)from around 60yrs old the price(monthly)goes very quick up.Food and house rental are extremely cheap ,in comparison with for exampel Us ,Europe, etc..I have lost,last 38yrs many friends,cause they can't afford the health insurance,their monthly income was too low for paying it.When nothing happened you don't have to worry,but when you became a heartattack for example,the costs in a hospital, without an insurance is too high for paying private(for many people),and so may died.I had one friend,he had diabetes,and need daily medicines,but there was no money,one day he passed away at an age of 67(too young).
@reyinfante5553 Жыл бұрын
Foreigners that chose to live in cheap countries will start to buy things without any complaints until the prices starts to increase. This destroys the cheap cost of living which the locals will suffer as well.
@TB-vb1st11 ай бұрын
It's been that way for years in Pattaya and surrounding areas like Jomtien. As it got more popular and word spread online, people have been going there to buy up properties and now everything is skyhigh prices except for older dumps in far away locations.
@PopTartLee9 ай бұрын
@burgerkang3249condos...yes.
@realdivers Жыл бұрын
I have lived and worked in Pattaya / Jomtien since 1998 i started my business in 2005 if you have a planned budget and stick to it life is good here depends on what you like to do much better here than the UK.
@Bandit-Iggy Жыл бұрын
I have been living in Thailand for roughly 5 years now, coming from Spain and Holland but cannot believe how expensive quality food has become compared to Spain and also gas has doubled in price, streetfood is cheap but not very healthy.
@gadgetgrader Жыл бұрын
Food in Spain is healthier ?
@jonaskarlberg1855 Жыл бұрын
it is healthy
@Bandit-Iggy Жыл бұрын
@@gadgetgrader yes
@getback3554 Жыл бұрын
It’s all relatively. But don’t tell me that stuff about Spain, it’s definitely more expensive to live over there than in Thailand 😂 Let’s start from rental prices 😉, it’s way more expensive in Spain, hence who would care about food unless you sleep in the streets 😁 And how about public transport?! In Thailand it costs peanuts…, shall I carry on ? 😄
@getback3554 Жыл бұрын
Moreover, inflation in Thailand remained on same level within 10 years , and only jumped up a little bit after “pandemic “. I have been based in Thailand since 2012 visiting Europe every year ( U.K., France , Spain, Switzerland)
@untermench3502 Жыл бұрын
In some ways, you brought it on yourself. You promote the Thai lifestyle, thus attracting others. This increases demand, and like any other commodity, the cost goes up. It's simple economics.
@HeartNDagger18 Жыл бұрын
💯
@cookingwanunknownchef4224 Жыл бұрын
If you are on a tight budget, one meal a day and eggs and rice and vegetables around the house every day is all you need to live. It is probably much healthier than other options too... 😀
@frederickmuhlbauer947711 ай бұрын
More boring too
@cookingwanunknownchef422411 ай бұрын
@@frederickmuhlbauer9477 I takes boring over unhealthy... 😃
@frederickmuhlbauer947711 ай бұрын
@@cookingwanunknownchef4224 ok but once in awhile I love some kielbasa or marinated pork on the grill Not often of course
@cookingwanunknownchef422411 ай бұрын
@frederickmuhlbauer9477 You must misunderstand the original post. I'm referring to a tight budget. With enough money, you can eat anything with one meal a day and you can eat as much kielbasa and marinated pork as much as you want during your only one meal a day. I ate eggs and other dishes or whatever I had during my OMAD, and I never gained weight. I stayed thin all year round... 😃
@KarenLedesma-w8i3 ай бұрын
@@cookingwanunknownchef4224for certain!, Let go of past habits and forward!
@MrEye4get Жыл бұрын
ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO! The cost of living is indeed increasing! It's still considerably cheaper than the US, but my monthly budget has increased by 20% over the past three years. The VISA options are very limited for foreigners under 50 years old. The Smart VISA is awesome for those who obtain it.
@ourladyofguadalupebotanica6732 Жыл бұрын
That's no different than North America with the increased cost of everything. Food prices are insane. Increasing cost is everywhere.
@anthonytuttle3306 Жыл бұрын
I retired early at age 50 after working and traveling the globe. I chose Phuket, Thailand as I knew it from working here for two years from 2000-2002. Have been here since 2015 on a retirement visa and love it. Yes there are much cheaper places to live in Thailand but the beauty, and western influences make it an easy transition for westerners. I rarely visit the touristy areas of the island and live more like the locals than westerners which is possible in parts of the island. 😊
@Radio280 Жыл бұрын
What is the monthly budget a couple needs per month to live comfortably there?
@anthonytuttle3306 Жыл бұрын
@@Radio280 comfortably around 100,000 baht. More if you want a very nice house with pool etc more like 160,000 baht
@hrollinsnyc11 ай бұрын
$3k to $5k USD seems expensive for Thailand
@assemblysan11 ай бұрын
$4500/month to live in a 3rd world country? As if!
@patriciatusay176811 ай бұрын
That’s a luxury lifestyle. 2,000 a month also gets you a great deal beyond just comfortable.
@susannahfox7188 Жыл бұрын
Misleading title....I heard nothing spoken regarding the change in "cheapness."
@gingin21jr Жыл бұрын
It’s the same all over the world 😢 Costs of living increased a lot
@kleerogers Жыл бұрын
yes increased everywhere, Thailand is still a fraction of the USA, I just came back from travelling through the USA, everything is INSANE in the USA, Thailand is by comparison "cheap", it is all relative to where you are coming from, right?
@mixalis6168 Жыл бұрын
@@kleerogers Likewise Australia, its gone to hell @@
@kleerogers Жыл бұрын
@@mixalis6168 I wouldn’t say Canada’s gone to hell, I would say at 63 years old with good retirement income there’s no need for me to stay in Canada and waste a whole bunch of money surviving when I could be living like a king in Thailand, for less money that I live on in Canada, our home is paid for, we can rent it out and have an extra $2000 a month in income at least, possibly more, we couldn’t possibly spend all of that money in Thailand, I would say the USA has definitely gone to hell, it used to be cheaper down there, now it’s cheaper in Canada, it’s a complete reversal over the last three years.
@nattapolvvvvddd4289 Жыл бұрын
Yes. Every country are the same, it's called development. Every country going to the future. Thailand's also aim to be developed country and high income country like every countries wanna be. So you can't dream of Thailand will be as cheap as it used to be like 30 years ago. Developed countries never cheap but the balance of salaries and cost of living. Seems like people here wants Thailand still being a third world country forever.😂
@kleerogers Жыл бұрын
@@nattapolvvvvddd4289 Thailand is still very cheap. When you compare other developed countries like Canada and USA, where the price of everything has gone crazy, if it goes up in Thailand, it goes up way more in Canada in the USA and Europe, all you have to do is compare the cost of living here in Canada, for example to the cost of living in Thailand, which is 1/3 of Canada at the most, Thailand is a bargain and cheap
@ksem_ch3186 Жыл бұрын
Hi, so i live in between Sangkha and Buachet, in a rural area as rural as it gets. Have a big house with a lot of earth around, 3500 baht for rent 1500 electricity + water. Dtac 1 year simcard with internet 1000 baht. (though, have a very good wifi from the neighbours) Spouse-visiting visa 5000 to open, then ~1000 baht every 3 months to cross the border (Khmer border ~2000, Laos border ~500-1000). So 15 months of visa costs 9000 baht with all the traveling. Food here is as cheap as it gets, about 2000 baht per month. So, in total you can live in Thailand for 1 year for 60000+1000+9000+24000=94000 thb per year, or 2500-3000$ per year as a family of two + pets.
@jonaskarlberg1855 Жыл бұрын
Word
@randomworld4662 Жыл бұрын
How do you get thai spouse visa ?is it different then married visa ?
@mauimixer6040 Жыл бұрын
As long as you don't go anywhere and need/want medical, transportation, clothes,entertainment, food more than rice, and definitely not a beer and clean water or use toilet paper, or any paper.😮 Been there,done that. But,thanks for sharing true Thai style. It's cheap being a mountain man in west Virginia too.
@cwv9811 Жыл бұрын
Bren and Laurel are a wonderful couple. I would absolutely recommend their channel. Always authentic and with a great message. This was an awesome interview.
@stevemahoney6493 Жыл бұрын
Nice video. My wife is Akha from Myanmar and she lived in an Akha village in Mae Tang for years when she first married and moved to Thailand. She still has a house lot there and we spent last Jan. 1 there with her auntie. Good luck to these intrepid Canadians.
@luisasterioquerubin6829 Жыл бұрын
I spent first 51 years of my life in Souteast Asia (Philippines) but now I migrated to Canada ( Mississauga Ontario). I wish you all the best!
@rumcoke9123 Жыл бұрын
why would you leave the Phillipines for a horrible place like Mississauga?
@noorlu5209 Жыл бұрын
Better for you to go back. Canada is becoming a satanic country.
@patienceobongo11 ай бұрын
@@rumcoke9123 Welfare of course
@tanchye1720 Жыл бұрын
6000 baht is only about US170 dollars. Lucky to have offer this house to both. Practically no need to built from scratch….and the land for farming too.
@kennethprice410911 ай бұрын
6000 bht was my monthly electric bill. Some months more. I was conservative at that.
@truckerfromreno Жыл бұрын
I've been watching their channel for some time. I'm surprised they have so few subs. Hopefully this video will get them the subs they deserve.
@asiaexpat62 Жыл бұрын
Every person's experience is different, but some things are cast in law. For instance one must be of Thai nationality to own property (makes me wonder how the landlord in this instance owns land.) Farming is one of the jobs restricted to Thai nationals if one intends to market the crops so this dream of being a farmer in rural Thailand is just that, a dream. Immigration policy seems to change over time and those that depend on some forms of Visas need to understand rules may change. This couple are certainly not typical in many respects but I wish them good luck in their endeavors. In my over 50 years in the Kingdom I have seen many come and go but the ones that fit Thai culture are usually successful here.
@sideshow6732 Жыл бұрын
Really interesting vlog, the water filtering was an eye opener, I live in an extended Thai family commune in rural Thailand, if you know Thailand you know what I mean. I live on 70 baht a day and my electric bill is 500 baht a month, I have my own small home. I have never been more healthy and content in my life.
@GetYourTravelpassReady Жыл бұрын
Are there any websites to explore/join such communities for others looking to make the switch as well?
@sideshow6732 Жыл бұрын
@@GetYourTravelpassReady. There are no websites that I am aware of, it's purely a family thing, so having a Thai wife/husband is your ticket in, and learning Thai and contributing to the overall welfare of the family and community facilitate success and longevity. Keeping the old girls on your side is also vital, extended Thai families are mostly matriarchal in their social hierarchies. Sorry, I could not be more helpful.
@laksi0505 Жыл бұрын
for experts, for a Visa, you must spent minimal 65.000 Baht in Thailand, every month.
@sideshow6732 Жыл бұрын
@@laksi0505 ? 16,000 baht per year for a retirement visa?
@laksi0505 Жыл бұрын
No;' 1.900 Baht, for a retirement Visa (year) and a minimum income of 65.000 Bath / month. @@sideshow6732
@Kwippy Жыл бұрын
Expats and immigrants often overlook the cost of health care in Thailand. Younger people mostly don't worry about it much, and many people have health insurance. But when you are old and your health starts failing, it can be impossible to buy health insurance. Private health care in Thailand is very much cheaper than the US or Singapore but the cost can really mount if you are very sick or very old. Many Thai people literally spend ALL their life savings on hospital care. Of course you can get medical care from government facilities and it would be very cheap but the standard would be so low you may find it unbearable.
@cal9112 Жыл бұрын
Sounds to me like USA
@swhiting100 Жыл бұрын
In Chiang Mai, many of the doctors who work at the private hospitals also work at the public ones...
@happycook6737 Жыл бұрын
Very true. Also if you run out of cash there will be NO healthcare even in an emergency.
@sylvainfrenchsvp5018 Жыл бұрын
Standard of care at gvt facilities is good. You may have to wait a few hours here and there, and it doesn't loo like a 5 stars hotel, but other than that, it's pretty decent.
@ericdelevinquiere9902 Жыл бұрын
Love how you are expending your KZbin channel’s horizons. Definitely on a path to greater things!
@HugoandGoya Жыл бұрын
Since covid, and the death of our business, we moved to the mountain and after to years still have no revenue. The more you are faraway the more difficult it is.
@dirk7816 Жыл бұрын
I arrived in Thailand last November from South America and couldn't believe how expensive it was compared to where I had come from. Granted I was in Pattaya not a rural setting but beers were $2-3 in a bar and the average meal was around $6 and up. Much cheaper then back in the States obviously but about double from when I was in Colombia. Just before I left in January all the restaurants went up 30% like clock work across the board. The only thing I found reasonable was housing. Another thing I couldn't stand was how predatory the Police were, the high cost of living coupled with the constant road enforcement checks had me wanting to leave within a couple months of arriving. The people were awesome and I like the culture but I have zero plans on returning.
@getback3554 Жыл бұрын
I have been living in Thailand ( mostly in Bangkok) over 10 years. Own a car and within this period paid fines only three times ( my fault I was speeding), and probably was stopped for a second by police about five times)))
@dirk7816 Жыл бұрын
@@getback3554 I made the mistake of going to Pattaya it's a tourist trap there.
@cbs1963 Жыл бұрын
You're not a dreamer like a lot of people on here. You're a person who sees Thailand with a clear sense of reality. It ain't as cheap as people think.
@AndrossMoonah Жыл бұрын
Colombia and Latin America in general lacks the infrastructure that Southeast Asia has, right? Latin America is also much more dangerous, yes?
@getback3554 Жыл бұрын
@@AndrossMoonah Sure , mate 👍
@bk210 Жыл бұрын
I like that you are willing to try something new in life, but you completely forget to mention that this is only possible because of the currency difference and your savings from your home country. 25,000 baht is a huge sum of money in rural Thailand, and something that will take a lot of hard work to earn.
@jerrykearns6344 Жыл бұрын
"25,000 baht is a huge sum of money in rural Thailand" About one month utilities for me in the USA. "something that will take a lot of hard work to earn" Should people who worked hard for decades in their home country, which has now become a high crime, high tax, expensive, degenerate shit hole, be allowed to flee to Thailand? Interesting moral question.
@Enochsright Жыл бұрын
True, they have financial back up or zero chance to make a living.
@freeagent8225 Жыл бұрын
So true wouldn't be many westerners there if it was the same price as home.
@aunch3 Жыл бұрын
Exactly. If/when the dollar collapses these people will be screwed. It’s basically a low budget vacation
@mariettathornton5924 Жыл бұрын
Wowww- good luck to Laura & Brenn! It’s great to be young and doing what they’re doing 😊 Thanks for sharing an awesome video Ryan🙏🏼
@lifeinruralthailand Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much!!
@Rantsack Жыл бұрын
The more people post about moving to a place and how nice, rural, relaxed and CHEAP it is. The prices will go up, no matter where you are.
@bengmelea8646 Жыл бұрын
So what's the story about the "owner" of the house and 2.5 rai of land? If she's Canadian, and therefore, non-Thai, she typically cannot own any land in Thailand. Maybe she set up a company that purchased the land with majority of the company owned by Thai citizens? Maybe she rents the land and is sub-leasing it out?
@ThailandTom Жыл бұрын
Yea, it's not as cheap here as it was just five years ago. But still better than "back home". Thanks for another interesting video!
@mauimixer6040 Жыл бұрын
Nowhere is
@Mike-du1dc Жыл бұрын
Nice Video Thanks! I enjoy seeing self sufficient as possible living & have done so myself for decades. While I use rainwater (not in Thailand) I do not think I would use well water especially in Thailand where groundwater wells are close to the surface with the amount of pesticides/herbicides used in Thailand (roundup still used) Because filtration before drinking would have to be very fine microfiltration & as you said bottled water in Thailand is very inexpensive 😉 But good on them for figuring out their own filtrations!
@chrisperkins7331 Жыл бұрын
I am not in Thailand but just across the river in Lao. It is true some get water from a well, but I think many drill a well that will go down 30-50 metres. Cost for the drill here about $400 plus a submersable pump for less than a $100 .
@siriusvenus8708 Жыл бұрын
The prices for food at Tops Central in Phuket have risen 30 baht almost every month for the past 4 months--for some items. Rental prices across the spectrum have tripled in the last year and a half.
@santiagovasquez1404 Жыл бұрын
85C us amonth ill take that.
@raptureready5004 Жыл бұрын
Is BlackRock buying up the real estate?
@raptureready5004 Жыл бұрын
@@nealcassady-yn3bh Your friends properties were where? Their best friend Jamie Dimon from Chase stole everything I owned. Just another branch of BlackRock. Courts help them. Everything was in California. Predators.
@raptureready5004 Жыл бұрын
@@nealcassady-yn3bh no one should sell to them ever. Too bad your friend likes money too much. They are Klaus Schwab. He wants us all homeless and eating bugs or dead.
@frederickmuhlbauer947711 ай бұрын
Tripled in 1 and a half years WOW thats crazy
@ericdelevinquiere9902 Жыл бұрын
If I lived there I would definitely look into local stuff, pretty sure it would be healthier and cheaper if you know how to source it. Also, the variety of foods could be an improvement over the lame middle class western diet, especially in Canada or US.
@arspistorica562 Жыл бұрын
Your comment deserves more praise. Spending a substantially greater portion of one's income on food than on rent and utilities is absurd, representing yet another form of colonisation.
@thomashusted Жыл бұрын
If you retire in Thailand with a pension from the west your expenses will be a lot less and your money will go a lot further. As Thailands inflation has been much less then in the west and the Thai baht has not been that strong compared to most western currencies. We built a house in a very rural area in Thailand that would have been at least 5 times more expensive in the west. So for me it’s still very cheap compared to the west. Yes it can be isolated here but I have a Thai wife and 3 year old daughter that keeps me busy lol!
@aunch3 Жыл бұрын
In other words if you’re a privileged Boomer
@jdshemp Жыл бұрын
@@aunch3 Bullshit, there are plenty of union trades out there, I just retired from the Railroad, you can't be a lazy fuck tho......
@JeanRooryck Жыл бұрын
Like all your episodes: in addition to providing useful information, this episode provides an introspective view of living rural in Thailand. Thank you
@mattbryan8535 Жыл бұрын
Hi! Thanks for the vlog🙂 This year Northern Thailand was basically unlivable for 4 months due to the burning season which caused a constant blanket of smoke haze (I was in Luang Prabang at the time). It's definitely worth considering the poor air quality that affects Northern Thailand every year and planning accordingly! Chang Mai was 'crowned' the most polluted (air quality)city on the planet on many occasions during this time.
@jerrykearns6344 Жыл бұрын
(1) when is the burning season and (2) can you easily and affordably go somewhere else for those 4 months w/o visa problems?
@mattbryan8535 Жыл бұрын
@@jerrykearns6344 It's not exact but generally February through to May...Yes,there's no issue moving around either Thailand or leaving the country re visa issues. But obviously with moving comes a financial cost so this would need to be taken into account. It's worth noting the Thai government is making some progress in stopping the burning but the neighbours are seemingly 'fully alight' ie Laos, Myanmar and Cambodia. And,these burns affect Northern Thailand massively due to the weather patterns.
@jerrykearns6344 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the response. I'm comparing with Denver brown cloud, radium industry, rocky flats, rocky mountain arsenal -- doesn't seem too bad.
@mattbryan8535 Жыл бұрын
@@jerrykearns6344 No worries!! I come from Tasmania, Australia where the air quality is seen as some of the best in the world, so yes, the issue is definitely relative!
@wildbill6366 Жыл бұрын
Yes , air pollution year round has been increasing in Thailand . In burn season it is like Shanghai on a bad day . This spring was super bad .. I prefer Indonesia or far south Thailand ... Chang Mai is nasty .
@dickielarue1451 Жыл бұрын
Greetings from Portugal...Orginally from the U.S. Been a legal resident here since 2016...Lived, traveled and worked in over 42 countries around the world...No matter where you go in most places...there are two costs...I'll put it like this having called Mexico home for years...There's Gringo Price and local price...The World has become nomadic with folks looking for more bang for their buck to others looking make a better living for themselves and there families etc...At the current pace it is simply not sustainable...I have lived both in cities and the countryside...My preference is the countryside, yet even now here in Portugal the prices are too high not only to buy but also rent...At the end of the day you are in control of your happiness, health and well-being period...However I am willing to pay more to live in peace and tranquilty then live in my country of birth where that no longer exists...Boa Sorte! 🇵🇹😉👌🤠
@Ryan51245 Жыл бұрын
Any advice for finding work and traveling the globe?
@liquid_metal11 ай бұрын
@@Ryan51245yes get a decent job in something digital like coding, marketing, SEO, product. That must be in your home country. Too much hoop jumping getting employed abroad and it sounds like you have zero skills, making it even more unlikely. Find a tech company or smaller business as to work for as they're more likely to have a fully remote work policy. As soon as you can WFH permanently in your HOME country, only then are you ready to do DN'ing. So many young idiots throw everything to the wayside with their career just to live the DN lifestyle. Don't be like them and throw away your future. Start in your home country to "unlock" working from abroad. It doesn't start from abroad.
@karnthainurseinfinland1674 Жыл бұрын
I love this video. Thank you. I am from Thailand and living in Finland for 20 years. I knew that life in Thailand now is different than before. This gives me lot of information. It helps me to decide my future, where I will stay.
@VH-gw3qi Жыл бұрын
Thoroughly enjoyable ! Thanks for sharing Bren and Laurel 😊🙏, best wishes to you all, stay safe and enjoy ! 🤩 cheers, Victor
The best advice Keep close to the locals with respect and friendship ❤
@ClaudeFeller Жыл бұрын
Couple is pretty much down to earth. Lovely interview. As I am here since 20 years - their budget will double or triple in two years time. But good life experience, enjoy your time here.
@swhiting100 Жыл бұрын
I disagree.
@andycompton4978 Жыл бұрын
Great video Ryan. As you mentioned, 6000 THB for rent including such a large land area and electricity is a super deal and very rare I think. Interesting to see how they live and their journey and decisions to settle in Thailand. Very different to my last 6 years in Chonburi. Consider myself very fortunate to have moved here by way of a job transfer with my long standing employer. Would love a more rural way of living at some point in the future. Keep up the great vlogs and content. 👍🙏
@isaacs3413 Жыл бұрын
@@nealcassady-yn3bh Foreigners cannot own land in Thailand. If I could I would, the countryside life is amazing here.
@mrthai-rg9nv11 ай бұрын
its not cheap
@clairrice7777 Жыл бұрын
Really informative video and interview. Bren & Laurel's honest about their journey was most welcome. Have also now also subscribed to their channel!
@davidhermann8639 Жыл бұрын
Been living in Thailand for over 10 years now. The coast line South of Bangkok is rather expensive, the rural areas much cheaper. Long story short: Thailand is a great place to spend money, not a place to make a living from local income. So if you have a few 100k in savings or a decent pension of at least 2.5k a month, you will find happiness here. If you try to develop a business here, you will soon find out that the corruption and lack of legal security will be eating most of your hard earned Cash. All my friends with restaurants, schools or other service companies had to give up at some point and retired or returned to their home countries in the First World. So far my thoughts and experiences. Nice country, friendly people, good food.
@royharper2003 Жыл бұрын
How are the women??
@moshesierra6849 Жыл бұрын
I’ve been to Thailand several times ( 10 Plus) It used to be cheap but not really cheap when u live there
@sokaiya16 ай бұрын
How much
@jerrylim2282 Жыл бұрын
Very beautiful place to live with lots of trees and plants. Love the open land with peacefulness. Canada has issues now with homeless and drugs users on the streets.
@AleeshaSattva Жыл бұрын
Yes we have the burning season in Thailand (Feb to May) - we have air purifiers in our rooms and it handles the air quality just fine. Being outside... you can wear a mask if the air is really poor quality that day. But really... during the hot season (Feb-May) you want to be in air conditioned places anyway and the air quality is better inside. (living here ten years now)
@philipclift7205 Жыл бұрын
37 Celsius. Yikes!😮
@AleeshaSattva Жыл бұрын
@@philipclift7205 Air conditioning helps!
@helendymock8265 Жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this one Ryan. Nice couple ❤
@kims8317 Жыл бұрын
I couldn't live like this in the country. I couldn't do it in Canada, never mind in Thailand. I'm a city girl. When I lived in Thailand, I lived in Bangkok. I also briefly lived in Hua Hin, which I liked, and I visited Chiang Mai, which I liked. But I LOVED Bangkok. Everything about it. I lived in the NE part of the city, in a Thai area not far from where I worked (I worked in Min Buri). I felt very safe there. I also had enough amenities along Ramkhamhaeng Road to feel comfortable. That's what I need to feel at home: the amenities in a city that you cannot get in a small town or farming area. And I was only a short taxi ride away from the BTS line to allow me to visit Central Bangkok. I absolutely LOVE Central Bangkok! The people, the sights, the sounds, the hustle bustle of it all. I would go crazy from isolation if I lived in a small rural home like the one shown in this video.
@frederickmuhlbauer947711 ай бұрын
To each his own right
@212days Жыл бұрын
$170 U.S. to live there each month sounds pretty close to being FREE to people who live on the California coast in the U.S.
@zwatwashdc Жыл бұрын
700 per month
@PHUCKyoutube689 Жыл бұрын
@zwatwashdc No, $170 USD is correct. He was referring to just rent. $700 was their monthly budget for everything. They are also eating a hipster diet which accounts for $300 of their $700 monthly budget.
@sylvainfrenchsvp5018 Жыл бұрын
@@PHUCKyoutube689 However, it doesn't include visa fees and having to have $17k saved in a bank account, nor does it include buying the car they use, and it doesn't include the opportunity cost that comes with the inability to find a paying job locally, nor the ability to adapt to future changes like increasing cost of living and changes in visa policies that happen every other year... On the short term, on a tourist visa, counting only the rent, yeah, $170 can do the trick. But as soon as you thin about living there on the long run, the funds needed go way up.
@MM-oc3xm Жыл бұрын
What they have?? They are just playing a life for nothing they are no where jn the life
@patriciatusay176811 ай бұрын
If you want a great life in Thailand with what you have in the US, you need 2000 a month in Thailand. This is why retired people move here.
@michaelj2528 Жыл бұрын
As always interesting and informative and entertaining, wishing the couple success in what they are doing . A really enjoyable video
@NDemanuele1 Жыл бұрын
Beautiful home and space! Makes me think about moving there! Seems like it's somewhere around Chiang Rai? When I lived in CR I rented a 2 story house for 4000 baht/mo. with no deposit! - in 2004-2006. They got a much better deal! Good they have some locals taking care of their property. I remember when the School director and lead instructor ( I was a teacher in CR) took a look at this place I rented out. One of them said to sleep on the top floor! When I asked why, they said: Snakes! I'm sure there are some critters on their property but the locals are fully aware of how to manage them.
@tarnforge7761 Жыл бұрын
Another great video. Their home is perfect I love the old style traditional Thai houses .
@WalkingmanPattaya Жыл бұрын
Great vlog Bren, Laurel, and Ryan. Never heard of the Smart Visa. It's very nostalgic to see a young couple from North America like me. Wish them well. What an adventure! I had to work 22+ years at a job that made me crazy to retire here. (OK I was a bit crazy to start) Yes the young always consider us old guys in Pattaya grumpy expats, 555 Wonderful property they rent there and so inexpensive. Kudos. Peace and Love all
@thomasjohnrobinson4658 Жыл бұрын
But I bet someone living in Pattaya wouldn't last a month there.
@WalkingmanPattaya Жыл бұрын
@@thomasjohnrobinson4658 True. But 40 years ago in my youth it would have been easy for me! 555
@petersutherland1985 Жыл бұрын
Elite visa, there is no smart visa
@AuntyJack123 Жыл бұрын
Excellent video and very interesting. Amazed about living with no air-conditioning especially to sleep. Too hot for me and I'm from South Australia. Also it's quite unusual that they're both foreigners so have unique experiences that thai- foreigner couple wouldn't notice. Mixed couple there's always someone who speaks the language so life is much easier. Good for them I wish them all the best for their future 😊
@happycook6737 Жыл бұрын
Sleeping on bamboo mats is like having air conditioning if you have a fan. The mat allows huge airflow under your body and absorbs sweat. I used Chinese sleeping mats in Tanzania, Thailand, Vietnam, and South Korea. I put a mosquito tent over the mat and put the mat on top of my mattress. Then I let the mat air out during the day off the mattress. Feels like air-conditioning!
@frederickmuhlbauer947711 ай бұрын
I dont mind heat except when Im trying to sleep.
@afdsvicosa Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, Ryan. Very informative! I'm definitely going to look into the Smart visa again.
@mythai9593 Жыл бұрын
Enjoyable video 👍. Best of luck with their choices. Love there set up.
@realsatoshihashimoto9 ай бұрын
6000 baht is crazy cheap for renting a house in Thailand. But how does a Canadian own a house in Thailand & rent it out? Canadians aren't allowed to own land in Thailand, only an apartment. You have to be Thai to own land in Thailand (there's a small exception for US citizens, but not Canadians.) I'm wondering if it was even her house, or she just rented out a vacant place she saw in the area? Wondering if the real owners will come back some day and evict them as squatters? As for the well water... Personally I'd be getting it tested before I drank it. What if pesticides and fertilizers have been leeching into the water over the years for example? Bottled drinking water is cheap & plentiful in Thailand. There's no way my Thai in-laws would be drinking from that well! In other news, apparently the Canadian landlord is coming back from Singapore soon... Something about selling someone a bridge...
@valuetraveler2026 Жыл бұрын
when global capital moved in in around 2010 thats when you noticed the change at least in BKK
@athensr1103 Жыл бұрын
I spent 6 months in Thailand but I found the heat quite unbearable. It doesn't even get cooler in the night, it's constantly uncomforable. It also cost me a small fortune, I spent 10's of thousands of £££'s. It was far more expensive than I expected . I wouldn't go back. Also I hated so many prostitutes everywhere I went.
@jdshemp Жыл бұрын
Have to stay out of the Farang ghettos.
@barrycohen31111 ай бұрын
Wut? I moved to Thailand for the prosties and the heat. Loving it. Living like a king on $1,000 USD
@jeffedwards5028 Жыл бұрын
Ryan, that would be one of the best vlogs I have ever watched. What a lovely honest couple and the house is great, what a bargain. Thank you and have a great day.
@maxprivate3805 Жыл бұрын
6,000 Thai Baht rent equals $170 United States Dollars. A 2 bedroom apt in San Francisco is around $4,000 per month. So 2 yrs rent in Thailand = 1 month rent in San Francisco in their case.
@llothar68 Жыл бұрын
Why would any sane people live in the Bay Area if they aren't working there and getting adjust income? Hard to get a aapartment for $170 in Texas but for $500 you have options. But USA sucks ass no matter of cost of housing.
@sniffingfish Жыл бұрын
Give it a year, you'll get kicked out and she will rent her done up house to someone else. Welcome to Thailand.
@happycook6737 Жыл бұрын
Yes, that is how the game is played!
@kleerogers Жыл бұрын
there are "cheap" places live, Cambodia is dirt cheap but I would not want to live there, as my wife always says, you get what you pay for, Thailand is 1/3 the price as Canada, maybe less if you factor real estate costs, our Townhouse in British Colombia is worth $850,000 CAD, I also have a condo in Hua Hin worth $70,000, so relatively speaking Thailand is still "cheap" by western standards.
@topgammar3763 Жыл бұрын
What about the homeless and crime issues in San Francisco? People pay high cost of living for that?
@happycook6737 Жыл бұрын
Another hugely important point is medical care. World class at some facilities in Bangkok. In Cambodia you'd have to be med evac for anything serious. This to me alone is worth paying more to live in Thailand near a medical center of excellence.
@kleerogers Жыл бұрын
@@happycook6737 couldn't agree more!!!!!!!
@kleerogers Жыл бұрын
@@topgammar3763 I don't live in San Francisco, nor would I live in the area or the USA for that matter
@mauimixer6040 Жыл бұрын
It's All relative. Thanks for sharing. Never been to Hua hin. Mostly phuhket
@perunut4656 Жыл бұрын
I dont understand why people are not using solar? I set up a modest 2 panel system here in Peru, and its fine for powering essentials like a fridge, liquidiser, phones, lanterns. Gas refill about $12, for 2 months cooking. I like the water filter
@timetraveller4116 Жыл бұрын
Its all about problems and emergencies. I can easily live on 700 USD a month in SE Asia including basic health insurance. But that is good but basic insurance. Emergencies have almost no limit. If you do not have access to backup money can you go 40 years ? I say no.
@graemeaylward8313 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting interview Ryan. Good to see that young people are prepared to expose thamselves to the people and culture of the local area. They are living in a fantastic place, but are still reviewing their options. Their cost of living is quite low even for Thailand, mainly due to the fantastic deal they have with rental including electricity, although their food costs are almost as high as ours with looking after my wife's elderly father who lives with us at the moment, and a daughter who returns from University for a few days each month with her voracious appetite! I was very impresed by them and will certainly take a look at their channel. Glad that you are enjoying your trip Ryan, God bless you, Damo and the boys. 🙏❤😀
@lifeinruralthailand Жыл бұрын
Thanks Graeme 🙏
@kotchakorn4345 Жыл бұрын
Wow..love to see 2 of my favourite. Vloggers..together..
@samuelmartin707 Жыл бұрын
Great video Ryan!!!! 2 thumbs up my friend!!!!
@macks573 Жыл бұрын
Dude, Jon Jandai is who I asked you to follow a while back. His channel is awesome to learn how to live a simple life. 11k baht in food costs for 2 people is absolutely ridiculous
@McBroGuy Жыл бұрын
Yeah... that kind of diet is anything but a pilgrim's process 😆
@macks573 Жыл бұрын
@@McBroGuy 🤣👍🏽
@anthonyanderson9326 Жыл бұрын
Grass fed beef biz in Thailand sounds like good money
@donjordan8174 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing Ryan cool house except the hot upstairs 555..looks like their enjoying the area and living in Thailand …. Great deal on the rent…. All Good stuff….
@lifeinruralthailand Жыл бұрын
Thank you! 🙏
@litestreamer Жыл бұрын
If you don't say the USD equivalent of the Thai currency at the same time, it really means nothing to those of us unfamiliar with the exchange rate. If you say the 2 currencies together that is really helpful.
@lifeinruralthailand Жыл бұрын
It’s written for you in 5 currencies 👍
@bengunn4373 Жыл бұрын
Excellent discussion, very helpful. I will be living on the fringe of a village in a converted farm house near Khu Mueang, Buriram so will face some of the challenges mentioned. I do have Thai family thanks to my wife, they teach me a lot, including how to forage for food. One more year to go! Cheers from a chilly London
@karmjuro1964 Жыл бұрын
Why not to grow your own chickens?
@carlgostling6480 Жыл бұрын
Love the videos topped off with a classic tune
@noodle-world11 ай бұрын
just wondered how Canadian Lady can own the house in Thailand
@AG-so4gl Жыл бұрын
Great content and wow what a budget. Aircon would mess that budget right up 😊
@1dancier Жыл бұрын
Great interview. Makes me want to visit Thailand again.
@davidkelly-cl4mj Жыл бұрын
Definitely more expensive than when I first went to Thailand. Was 32 Baht to 1 Aussie dollar, now it's 22 Baht to th he dollar. That's pretty significant if you went there 10yrs ago when the rate was favourable but a drop of 10 Baht can make a big difference to the monthly expenses. It's true too say lots of experts have left Thailand and probably won't return. Ofcourse it's still a cheap alternative for some as opposed to living in their own country so Farangs will still come to Thailand and probably be quite content with their life there
@thomasjohnrobinson4658 Жыл бұрын
How did they get on with the smog and the pm2.5 that comes with it.Find it difficult to believe it wasnt mentioned.
@aunch3 Жыл бұрын
They’re trying to put their best spin on it
@iandann8788 Жыл бұрын
6,000 dirt cheap ,even for Thailand and "all in" did he say ,that's electrics etc .That's about 140 pound a month. I drink rain water ,have done the 20 years I've been here . I feed it into one of those big stone jars once a year but after a lot of rain has fallen to make sure its clean ,so around this time . Never heard of a smart visa but if there is money involved, the immigration boys will find one to suit you. But you can't beat the year round weather ,never cold and the beautiful verdant scenery .
@shaunhall6834 Жыл бұрын
I understand why people want a different kind of life and leave all the problems behind but those problems don't go away. Those that can't leave now have less like minded people to solve those problems. We need more people taking responsibility to solve our social, environmental and economical problems instead of trying to find that perfect place that doesn't exist.
@ChimpsAI9 ай бұрын
That is a really nice rural place and at a great rental rate. It looks so serene. The only thing I would be concerned about with their well water filtration system is that certain chemicals (potential carcinogens) from agriculture in the area could make it through the filter. Since they are drinking the water, It might be good to get the pre and post filtered water tested. Just my humble opinion. This is another great video, Ryan.
@BreadanCotter-vb5xd11 ай бұрын
Straight to the point no bs fair play mate good work new sub
@genokemp2433 Жыл бұрын
People are Lovely all over the World , and this couple won't change my mind ❤Wish them the best in the Future 👍
@MrMonland Жыл бұрын
Hey guys We are from Calgary, Canada. We love your place, peaceful and quiet. You guy live very natural life. Awesome.
@cryptoslacker-46411 ай бұрын
Great video. Really interesting , honest look at living full time in Thailand
@donnydoit7678 Жыл бұрын
I really don’t like living in america while loving America, but in my opinion America is the least expensive place aside from the living space. And living space is not that expensive in many areas.
@omgwth7567 Жыл бұрын
Amazingly you Canadians can stand the Thai heat in summer. 😅🥵 But maybe that northern area is not too hot. 😊
@notthesamecc1927 Жыл бұрын
what's funny is canadian money is not listed when talking to Canadians :) i think it might be similar in value to the Aussie amt though. good video. Thailand definitely still a million times cheaper than Canada now.
@JasperJohnson94 Жыл бұрын
It is really interesting for me to watch this video. Cause I am the guy who left Thailand and came to Canada. For me, Thailand life is like escaping, for sure it could be really cosy but for me learning a skill and taking responsibility is more important.
@JasperJohnson94 Жыл бұрын
I am a Chinese guy who has a Thai wife but study in Canada.
@johnnielson4341 Жыл бұрын
3:30 They said they met a woman from Canada who is renting the house to them. Something's wrong. A Canadian cannot own property in Thailand. There is someone else behind the scene. Hope they don't get burned. In addition, it's illegal for foreigners to work in agriculture.
@aunch3 Жыл бұрын
When the dollar collapses these people are going to be sitting ducks. I warned everyone that the lock downs and “stimulus” packages were going to do far more damage than COVID, but everyone was scared and/or went along to get along. Hope it was worth it