Light of the Mind, Light of the World: Illuminating Science Through Faith | Spencer Klavan | EP 489

[@DanArmando-r9u]

Am I the only one who has to pause these to allow the information to settle into my understanding and then return after a while?

[@jmac1221981]

I do the same with this & with Spencer’s podcast Young Heretics

[@leewatts6948]

I’ll rewind & repeat sections from time to time. Lately he has had some more intense, info dense discussions. This is a weird one in that JP is doing all the talking. He even interrupts repeatedly.

[@MaoriNinja]

>set to 1.5x speed Big brain conversation for sure.

[@James11226]

Me too

[@zpotler]

For sure. I was talking to someone the other day saying, “sometimes JP gets to subcategories of my mind that I’ve never been. Because of that I don’t know how to hold the information. Like what do I link this insane revelation too because it’s so deep down.”

[@dgh5760]

Dr. Peterson is so excited to have an intellectual equal and someone with common interests and knowledge to converse with! Dr. Klavan is a worthy discussion partner for Dr. Peterson IMO.

[@marchess286]

if only JP would let Spencer talk. Haven't heard much of Spencer as of 21:00.

[@danblack5402]

What an amazing conversation. That was the most intellectually stimulating conversation I’ve heard in a long time!

[@M4GG0TK1NG]

2 of the most brilliant minds in contemporary historical and theological discussion just having a great chat. Love it

[@shannonwhite780]

🌼In the process of sorting through my life, I’m trying to understand, navigate, and take responsibility for the incredibly poor decisions I’ve made. Some truths feel so heavy that at times, I feel paralyzed by the weight of the pain and hurt. Mr. Peterson, I recognize the personal sacrifices you’ve made for the greater good, and the courage it took to say what needed to be said. You laid bare your soul, sharing your journey to discover a fundamental truth. Truth requires facing one’s own personal hell and coming to terms with oneself. If you could keep me in your thoughts and prayers, I would greatly appreciate it. I’m struggling more days than not. I’ll send my thoughts and prayers to your friends & family's way as well. 🌼

[@ltnats]

Good for you Shannon, may God bless you in your efforts to become a better person.

[@lance.]

This conversation had some of the vibes of Jordan’s early stuff. Like mind blowing illuminations.

[@nickcardona8603]

Absolutely- these are the types of insights that led me to a belief in God after YEARS of reflection, and he’s dropping them clearly and lucidly in a sub-2 hour discussion.

[@shannonwhite780]

Right!! I thought so as well! Only differences , we have witnessed and watched this man AND his family be put through unimaginable hell. Personally and professionally tourtured for speaking his truth.. We have seen him come out on the other side of things.. like Jordan says ... "that's not nothing" It's really Something! Difficult experiences offer valuable lessons, helping us gain wisdom and perspective that can serve and guide us along the way..

[@irenewinters9688]

Love the intro music. Vibrant, uplifting, energetic. Good luck with series.

[@PTewogbola]

Really nice for Spencer to have Jordan as a guest

[@leewatts6948]

Well said 😅

[@robovs1]

Yeah another one of JP's interviews where he hijacks the interview. Not even 20 minutes in and he's barely given the guest a chance to speak because he keeps interjecting.

[@jelmerprins]

Was thinking the same

[@tablet9325]

The same for every interview he's ever done

[@seandery6959]

I love Jordan so much but this man needs to let guests actually offer their perspective

[@dspotlightQwQ]

I wondered why you identified so much about the book of Jonah, now that you have confessed yourself I'm more than impressed. What an example you are, it just makes me respect you even more.

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

The title here made me think of a passage I’ve been chewing on from Madeleine L’Engle’s _An Acceptable Time_ , Bishop Colubra speaking: “Don’t underestimate knowledge. But we get into trouble when we confuse it with truth. Truth is eternal. Knowledge is changeable. It is disastrous to confuse them.”

[@annbrucepineda8093]

Yes!!!

[@scottarnest8980]

Love it.

[@Pari991-y3o]

I don’t know why I love Dr. Peterson so much, he saved many lives…God bless him and his family🥹🥹❤️❤️

[@mercster]

So you're cognizant that Dr. Peterson has saved many lives, but you don't know why you love him? Do you know why you're choosing the words that you do?

[@LivingInWonder7]

Wow, I am truly blessed to have the ability to hear this conversation. @51:50 The Holy Spirit moved like fireworks from my head, down my back. haha (: I will sit back and just listen, and will rewatch this later with more of a studious mind. Right now, I'm kind of in awe of God. And how He works. Like you just know when you see It, hear It, feel It.

[@ChicagoTRS]

This guy has a radio voice.

[@kevreeduk222]

I had it playing in the background, so couldn't see the speakers, but when Spencer was talking I was getting images of James Earl Jones and George Takei in my mind. The former triggered by the timbre of the voice, the latter from the cadence and intonation.

[@hollismallory2757]

Got them high waters on too

[@i.f7032]

I think more tv voice

[@alexandraiacob8359]

His grandfather was a very famous ny dj back in the day. Its genetic

[@jkovert]

Cuz he’s a super dork. That’s a compliment, btw.

[@stubinski268]

No don’t stop. This was so enjoyable as I do my fall garden cleanup 😅❤🎉

[@WendyTroskie]

I have been listening to Mr Peterson's podcasts for years,this one is hands down the deepest most interesting and riveting one I have ever listened you,I feel so privileged to to able to listen to this quality of dialogue,thank you

[@MoreChrist]

It's great to see Spencer on here! Not only is he wicked smart, but an absolute gent. Young Heretics is one of the best podcasts on the internet. God bless you both.

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

I’ve learned so much from Young Heretics! Spencer is so dear.

[@SahLowMahn]

Seeing you tear up with unconditional love changed me forever. I love you and am forever grateful.

[@Vexium]

Light of the Mind, Light of the World says it all. Great stuff.

[@jeaniemorkel5007]

Definitely one of your best podcasts, Jordan! So many enlightening conclusions reached. Absolutely loved it, thanks so much!

[@VangelVe]

I love Spencer's ideas and have pushed my kids towards his work. This is a great interview, but I wish Dr. Peterson would also talk with Tom Woods, whose book, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, logically approached the topic and brought the receipts. Woods is a libertarian well-versed in Austrian economics, which Dr. Peterson suggests he wants to examine in more detail.

[@NotBlandBlandina]

Young Heretics is undeniably one of the best podcasts out there

[@sean2662]

17:24 I came to this realization after hearing Dr. Vervaeke pepper in something about nostalgia being bad. I spent a while wondering why and realized that nostalgia captures experiences in zoos and we go there instead of visiting the wild or appreciating the ones that come upon us and we dont even get to touch them. It helped me control sensual habits, too.

[@Ruminatinghafez]

Cutting out entire emotional landscapes is not a good thing, I'm not surprised that someone who over analyzes trivial logic problems, underanalyzes their own life. There's a season for everything, nostalgia exists for a reason, and if you live long enough that's most of what you might have left

[@GinaGraziano-h7l]

Thank you for everything you do.

[@zachmoore012]

And yet again 51:30 - 51:40 dropping dimes kudos mr Peterson

[@BenEcho]

43:37 I love seeing Jordans enthusiasm discovering how he and Heisenburg shared a deep intellectual perspecitive

[@TheFringedGentian]

I am SO thrilled to see this, dearest Dr. Peterson. I can’t express how much I have learned from Spencer’s podcast. I deeply enjoyed his Foundations of the West conversation with you. I knew you two would be kindred spirits and if there is one thing on earth I love, it’s to see kindred spirits in conversation with one another and letting us in on it. I cherish you two. With Ruth Anne’s love

[@scottrichins1445]

This is one of the most profound philosophical discussion I have ever heard. When taken with Jordan previous insights, that heaven is not just the ideal but the constant pursuit of the ideal (I forget which lecture/talk that one was on), I think they have unknowingly (or knowingly) described James 1:27 “Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.” I also liked their analogy between the spirit of Cain and Wokeism. I hadn’t made that connection before.

[@Charon-5582]

Philippians 3:12-15 and Hebrews 12:1-15 are very close to what they were speaking about.

[@lostcauselancer333]

Beautiful. Jordan Peterson, father figure to millions, speaking with Spencer Klavan, with no father that he will acknowledge. I’m tearing up.

[@jacobgray676]

Top Tier comment lol

[@annbrucepineda8093]

Andrew Klavan is his proud father, also with DW and a renowned novelist.

[@kennethflorek8532]

@@annbrucepineda8093 So there is some kind of rift between him and his father, Andrew Klavan?

[@robertjackson2002]

No, the joke started on Andrew Klavan’s show where he would say “today we have on Spencer Klavan-no-relation”, the joke being that this insinuates that Andrew Klavan is so heinous that no one, even his own son, would acknowledge being related to him or even knowing him.

[@jacquedegatineau9037]

I'm interested in this topic but I guess I'll have to buy the book to hear what Klavan thinks about it. Well played Spencer. Well played.

[@figwit-rh4mw]

😂

[@seanm.f.6603]

This is a truly mind-expanding episode. It truly deepened my spiritual roots. What a great podcast. Thank you so much.

[@zachmoore012]

50:47-50:55 🎯 key to life illuminations

[@rafaelhidalgo]

One of the best discussions JBP has had! Loved it!

[@TheJdm2203]

Blessed to have the ability to receive this type of content. I find it hilarious cat videos also exist on this same platform...

[@jasjulkat]

This and car videos are why I’m here.

[@jasjulkat]

*cat

[@DouglasdV-x9l]

@@jasjulkat I dunno... car videos are pretty good too...

[@DenisFalqueto]

There are so much insights on that conversation that one could make a whole semester course about it...

[@todddann3134]

What a gift, to think freely on the level on which you speak. If granted such, what a world would be granted to which we spread.

[@mrstraighty]

Between this one and the conversation with Bishop Barron... I'm speechless.

[@steveklein4367]

I imagined speaking to Peterson this morning and metaphorical "light" was a topic that kept coming up. Didn't know this had just released.

[@KvaedTV]

Honesty is the Ultimate Truth.

[@purpleflame334]

Thank you for your tireless work, Dr. Peterson. As usual, remarkable discussion ❤❤❤

[@dmi3kno]

Excellent conversation of like-minded souls

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

A very blessed Canadian Thanksgiving to you and your dearest ones, Dr. Peterson. Here’s a hug for you and one for Tammy, and I hope you are spending this holiday with loved ones. ❤

[@YHWHsavesDotCom]

Another wonderfully stimulating "brainstorming" conversation! Thank you gentlemen. 👏👏👏

[@LilaSilk]

Thank you gentlemen for this lovely, interesting and engaging conversation.All the best Mr Klavan. By the way, whats up with your socks gentlemen? 😂

[@nathans8928]

This was among the top tier dialogues you've had, within the circle of pageau, barron, and vervake

[@richhowe7585]

No I read the book and now I understand much better and am excited to hear the conclusion.

[@DeDoubleDizzle]

16:30ish As a person diagnosed with a.d.h.d. in 1996, "edges", specifically 'straight' edges on structures and things etc. have always allowed me to reset and or reinforce my focus by focusing on them. If that makes sense.

[@LivingInWonder7]

@1:05:00 that is the Lord meeting you where you are at. It's beautiful.

[@LivingInWonder7]

@1:18:33 1 Timothy 6:10 - the love of money, is the root of all evil. the ROOT... hmmm. like a tree root? like the roots of The Tree Of Life? Our perception is so limited compared to God.. it's incredible how He made this, period. but then He breathes life.. It's miraculous.. it's more than that, but I don't have the words. Who says the "love" of money can't be subconscious? That's what I think you were alluding to, there. Which is profound. I never thought of it that way. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 - "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago - whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows - such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know how such a man - whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows - 4 was caught up into Paradise, and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak." How do you hear an inexpressible word? More than that, In hearing these inexpressible words, he is given a rule to not speak them. I won't ask why, because I trust His ways are right and just, and perfect. So, for me, I will just leave that there because I trust the Lord can use me just like He can use anyone, for whatever big or small purpose, no matter how obscure or recognized.

[@uchennaazih199]

One of the best episodes I've seen

[@cdubya3]

Jordan, you sir, are a national treasure. Please please reach out to Andy Stanley for a podcast. The world needs to hear you two converge.

[@georgesmith7337]

💥 -my brain

[@Fragalaging]

WOWOWOWOW incredible discussion. Very much looking forward to reading more of Klavan's work!

[@gavinpretorius2252]

"This is a candle. But not if I throw it at you." Peterson academy merch??? 😂😂

[@hankroest6836]

"There's a fact per phenomenon or a fact per combination of phenomena." Couldn't've said it better myself. ;-)

[@CaptainSurfy]

Such a rich conversation thank you

[@stvbrsn]

Convergence in ideas is a hell of a thing. Within the first 18 minutes Jordan elaborated on two topics that I was introduced to by Terence McKenna. Not what I was expecting.

[@kyleryan7210]

Incredible points 🎉✅️👏💯

[@jeremiahragira7633]

I am halfway through it and my brain keeps getting blown. This is so much good content!

[@marchess286]

Thank you

[@kevin_heslip]

Good to see the full context of that Monet clip. Super interesting discussion.

[@diannemusson7988]

Thank you gentlemen

[@hdca18]

This is a great one so far, just 10 minutes in. 🍿

[@thecorneredking6547]

Think not what the competition can do for you, but what you can do for the competition. Revere not the win, and your competition will be strong.

[@CAS007-rg1lc]

Love this talk. Very intriguing.

[@dogbackwards33]

Jordan- You saved my life via Theo Von clip; my neighbor expressed the same. God bless my people, via coming out of the state of hell, I am raising others & you have been one of the firemen dawg

[@ericgilliam794]

This one's over my head!!! 😅😅😅

[@noideer4865]

Thank you for a wonderful conversation. Dr. Peterson you really need to talk with Stephen Meyer. If you haven't read his book, The Return of the God Hypothesis, you will love it. Also, 3 books by Francis Schaeffer are well worth the time too: Escape from Reason, The God who is there, and He is there and He is not silent. Written in the 1970s and 80s they explain the origins of the meaning crisis and the encroachment of Marxist ideas into the mainstream with devastating consequences.

[@StoneShards]

Provocative! 👍

[@jultuiTheRapGoat]

When will you release the disscusion with Dawkins?

[@josefbaumert270]

Hear, hear!

[@todddann3134]

Hear ye, hear ye, doth has speaketh!!

[@truecore2040]

Dawkins has nothing to offer intelligent thought. He’s an old fool.

[@ericwid]

Dawkins? The ball player?

[@Ruminatinghafez]

Not interested

[@Jitensukham10]

thank you for the explanations.

[@ibelieve3111]

Thanks

[@gregorywitcher5618]

In tune and on time! Let’s go!!!

[@X3l0R]

would have been nice to hear more from spencer..

[@1382CCC]

Greetings Jordan Peterson, Much of what you speak about in this conversation has much similarities that Jean Pierre Garnier speaks about in the theory of: Doubling of Time. Great subject in which can provide some insight. God bless.

[@djmsflix4Christ]

Jordan is a mouthpiece for Christ - keep being great Jordan

[@bubsyoutube]

So, one should be in the present moment, but the ‘eye’ must be focused accordingly to the task that’s on the path towards the individual’s highest aim?

[@theBaron0530]

I think it'd be interested to see Dr. Peterson interview Cliff Claven, though, too. 😁

[@PiecesMissing]

You know I would pay good money for Peterson's take on Warhammer 40K lore. I know so much of it has Judeo-Christian underpinnings and so might be a bit redundant at times, but I would just love his interpretation of it.

[@stuartthomas94]

this would be awesome never going to happen lol

[@Mitral_valve]

Genuinely a conversation that ended too quickly.

[@jamesclemens7100]

I love being a part of the great MIND, thank you so much !!!

[@brendonlake1522]

These two demonstrate how well a conversation can go if both parties are operating in good faith and are open to exploration of ideas. The upcoming discussion with Richard Dawkins is unlikely to be such a joy to listen to.

[@joejoe809]

Outstanding.

[@sartwon]

Wokeness is a submission of self but not a lesser self. The woke submit the self to the vulnerable representing the lesser. In particular the other whose imagined and presumed as qualifying, as the most vulnerable. It’s the ethics of the most vulnerable vainly attempting to satiate the demons of comparison and expectation. All in the efforts to avoid an imagined set or “archetype” of perfect standards. Diagnostically, it’s an existential parade of determinism interplaying with formative adventure. Which, the suppressed self remains stuck in a power matrix of cartoonish determinism opposed to the guidance of divine love and amazing adventure.

[@J__C1]

One to save and return to.

[@alenkaperger4370]

Klavan is excellent. But he needs to button his shirt!

[@TodaysThemeIs]

I feel like these two are perfect together, haha

[@digitaltransformation1267]

Problems do not exist and when you begin letting go, there is room to discover. Focus on how things are created and delete all that binds. Learn to create, to be able to discover. Good luck.

[@shaileshjadhav7889]

best!!!

[@Venator1230]

47:37 I've never seen Dr. Peterson get so violent so quickly. I didn't know you had that sort of beast in you Dr. P.

[@SamadhanPatil-cd8bo]

awesome video

[@My_Stupid_Face]

16:00 So, many (if not most) people likely don't know what JBP is on about. It boils down to the human brain sorting-out the plethora of "facts" we have to contend with, as we proceed through our daily activities. We SEE pathways and tools that facilitate our movement toward an aim. We don't see things as mere objects. We are evolved to distill what we contend with in terms of a journey, whether that be getting a cup of coffee, or building a house, or walking down a sidewalk. The Postmodern claim of an infinity of facts is true, and what the brain does to cope with this is to disregard what we perceive into USABLE FACTS.

[@mistersmith8962]

So many claim they have the true light....so few possess such a thing

[@lindontilson471]

I'm all ears

[@pauliewalsh6875]

Faith, the very first human hypothesis.

[@HOMEBUSINESSADVERTISER]

🌻

[@Surjobs]

you got a new sub!

[@robovs1]

Kudo's to Spencer for his patience and ability to listen. I love JP and what he's brought and brings, but goodness, let your guest talk about his book. I really would have loved to hear about it. Guess I'll have to go listen to Spenser somewhere else. Too bad the title of the podcast doesn't match the material presented as interesting as it was, unless he does give him a chance on the Daily Wire.

[@RahulBhanarkar-d4s]

really liked this video

[@michelletewhata7768]

Arohamai ❤

[@joykeebler1916]

- well many years ago had a friend that said when they were in college at University ,the professors were passing out brownie mixes in class so they could get back to the mind of the big bang while listening to the Moody Blues

[@skipsch]

The thumbnail alone agrees with me for sure. If someone's controlling & insecure they'll feel a need to know every little thing. It's like they choose that rather than a path of strength and independence. Maybe it's because of a lack of respect or validity found in themselves, but anyway there's obviously a lot that can be said about that topic

[@autumnleaves2766]

An interesting conversation for a Monday night. Nice to hear Monet's gorgeous haystack paintings getting a mention. Dr Peterson was so animated in this discussion. Both men wanted to end on a positive note, which was good to hear, but I'm getting increasingly depressed with the state of the world. We really are in a battle between good and evil, but vast numbers of people just haven't woken up yet and realised it. To know that Scientific American has seen fit to support Harris makes me sink further into the depths of despair (this latter phrase is also the title of a piano piece I composed recently). Science should be independent of politics. Perhaps Freud was right about the death instinct, and that we now have dark forces at work which are keen to destroy everything we have built up in the west. Why such people hate their own society so much is beyond me, when they have enjoyed all its benefits and liberties and usually preach to the rest of us from the safety of their middle-class enclaves. I'm tired of hearing about these screaming identity groups and their claims to victimhood.

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

Don’t lose heart, my friend. I too am low in my spirits over the state of the world. But good always triumphs over evil, always. We can rest on that, and press on.

[@LivingInWonder7]

@@AFringedGentianToEnnien amen.

[@allencottell4241]

It amazes one to see how far off-center politics has fallen. To hold in high esteem a corrupt egoistic con by otherwise intelligent voters just shows how the media monsters manipulate the populace. Give your head a shake.

[@autumnleaves2766]

@@AFringedGentianToEnnien Lovely comment, thank you ! Hope all your writing projects are going well at this time. I'm composing a fair bit of music but have yet to look into how to get it published or recorded. Onwards and upwards, as JBP would say.