LIGHT WEIGHT RANDO BIKE (NORTHER-LYON)

[@MrJohnHartman]

This is great. I was really torn between Norther and Jeff Lyon for my first(only custom) about 3 years ago. I’m sure that the Lyon would have been great but I went with Norther and it’s a wonderful bike, truly better than I expected. It was a lot of money for me ( more than this, I saved for years) but it’s unquestionably a forever bike. Starmichael was so great to work with and unbelievably patient and responsive to my dozens of emails. I ordered it with Randonneuring top of mind but have used it for commuting, fastish group rides, bombing rocky Arizona single track and some light bike packing. It’s been a joy always and it feels like coming home every time I get on it. I’m sorry this turned embarrassingly gushy but I was pretty nervous going in and it turned into the best thing I’ve ever spent a lot of money on.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

It’s def an awesome bike. Wish I could have taken it off road. Wanted to keep it clean because it was a loaner.

[@MrJohnHartman]

Path Less Pedaled You’re welcome to get mine dirty if you’re ever in Austin. But it’s 64cm.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Gonna need a ladder.

[@justinacciavatti6656]

The guys at Norther are great, real problem solvers. Built a low trail fork for me that is rad. Conscientious work. I don't really see the $4k as too much, to get a bike you love rather than like, and by the time you swap out all the parts from a production bike you're around $4k anyhow. Great vid.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I personally think it is reasonable for what you get.

[@slopetechno]

Nice review. I have an extremely similar bike (same tubing and fork spec) that was done entirely by Jeff, and I wanted to add that the tubing is not too light for every day use in my experience, I've used it at least every weekday for 3 years and I'm about 190lb. Best bike I've ever had.

[@delta85us2000]

This bike is long overdue. I've been waiting for someone to offer batches of lightweight steel rando frames. Excellent! Well-reviewed.

[@nesutoneko]

My 60.5 Lyon L'Avecaise with rack, swift rando bag, platform pedals, bottle cages, 650x48 tires etc (no fenders) but no real weight weenie parts weighs in at 23 pounds. It's a beautiful bike, a joy to ride and, so far, has shown no signs of fragility. I'm 6'/170# in my birthday suit and ride it almost exclusively on gravel roads and very rough local dirt bike paths.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Good to know. Wanted to take it on some gravel but didn’t have enough time with it.

[@rollinrat4850]

I made my own fork with the Kaisei blades. Its truly so comfortable on my dirt rando bike that I forgot it's NOT the front suspension on my hardtail! I want to make a whole frame from the Kaisei tubes.

[@haemstah]

Did you rake the blades yourself?

[@rollinrat4850]

@@haemstah Yes. My friend built his own wooden device. He'd already used it several times. On my second blade it broke. We build another one. So each of my legs are a bit unique, but you can only see it if you look really hard. I think a little bit of subtle human imperfection is sorta cool. Except for really steep climbs, this has to be one of the best handling fork I've owned. Its a low trail fork, so it works best with a load on the rack. On hills this steep,I can walk almost as fast. Walking at this point is probably more efficient.

[@haemstah]

@@rollinrat4850 that's cool. I'm looking at getting a 700x44 frame done from the Kaisei Superlight tubes. Will most likely do closer to mid-trail though. How did he go about learning how to make the mandrel out of wood, and how to bend the fork legs to suit the rake?

[@rollinrat4850]

@@haemstah We built another mid trail fork out of the same blades for my old 1" alum. CX bike. The ride is much the same, high speed riding is just a bit twitchier. I love that tubing, but I'll probably use 31.8mm Reynolds 853 for the top tube and maybe a couple other tubes for better rigidity on a loaded bike. It would be pretty hard to explain the blade bending tool in words. I'm a much more visual person. Find some framebuilding blogs and you might find plans. You'll definately need some woodworking tools. My friend and myself own quite a bit of tools and machines including machining equipment. We barter and trade services quite often. I machined his new framebuilding jig for him. Eventually we'll make a more permanent solid metal leg bender. The two wood versions lasted thru an amazing number of forks.

[@haemstah]

@@rollinrat4850 Cool. Am 60kg, so I figure that set from ReneHerse should be fine for road and mild cruisy gravel etc with only a light load at max.

[@Ray-dz9fn]

So nice to see Jeff Lyon highlighted. I'm a past owner of one of his frames, a '78 Seraboni purchased in Sunnyvale, CA. The fork "end bend" looks a lot like the one on a '72 Raleigh International I also used to own.

[@benjirouse]

I have a mid-80's (I think!) Lyonsport rando bike that I got at a community bike shop in Seattle 10 years ago, and it is absolutely my favorite bike ever. Jeff Lyon has long done incredible work. Happy to see this review!

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

What a find!

[@EnjineerDave]

I have yet to give up my downtube (friction) shifters on my road bikes, so I like the classic components. That rando bag mount is the coolest thing I've seen in a long time. Only thing I don't like about this bike is the lack of rear rack braze-ons, but the beauty of custom builds is you can add what you want.

[@fulgurbikes9940]

Beautiful bike. I love how simple and refined it looks. 4000 is a lot ufff but I can see why.

[@b5thomas7]

Not for me, but a really cool bike and I appreciate the video. While I think many viewers are yearning for more affordable bike reviews, I like the mix of mass market/affordable and boutique bikes. Keep up the great work.

[@BruceWalkerPhotography]

Pretty much my only comment can be, wow; gorgeous! As a guy who is still rocking his original 1972 Dawes Galaxy rando bike in its close to stock configuration, this one *really* appeals to me -- pushing all the buttons. Especially digging the crusty curmudgeon touches like down tube shifters; hooray!

[@1969Rake]

Came across this vid as I've just started learning about randoneering and doing basic research into it. This particular bike seems like it would ride like being on a cloud

[@irgendwer3610]

that super long mudguard/fender looks great, I wish more bikes had it like this

[@michaelmann6482]

Glad you got to swing a leg over this bike. And good to see Mount Tabor (Montavilla represent!) scenery. As you say, low trail takes an adjustment, but it’s pretty intuitive. As someone who has 5 years and many thousands of miles on my 650b Ocean Air Cycles Rambler (trail = 37) I can say that the switch to higher trail is where I have to adjust now; they feel squirrelly to me. I wish you had the chance to put some front panniers on this or, better yet, ride a brevet. My experience is that one of the great features of a small front load on a low trail bike is less fatigue and more intuitive handling when you’re many miles and many hours into a ride. Low trail bikes take better care of their tired riders.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Sweet. Have always wanted to try the Rambler. Wish I had more time on a low trail bike to really try it with a load.

[@rolfaalto]

Shimano 9-speed is the best! I've downgraded from 10 and 11 speed and never looked back!

[@ronskayakingandfishing414]

Great review, very interesting. Going to have to keep my eye on these guys. I have some more work to do to get down to their suggested 180 pound weight limit, but that's my goal.

[@victcardona]

That is one of the loveliest looking bikes I’ve seen.

[@garyarbogast6703]

That sure looks like Mt. Tabor in S.E. Portland.

[@steveb1972]

What a gorgeous bike! Yes it’s pricey, but like you said Russ, worth the money. I want!

[@Jon-cw7gk]

Love those connectors for the bag . Defo a bike I would stroke (whilst the owners not looking, obvs)

[@Owwliv]

I hope they are still making these when I can afford one....

[@brettstenson]

it feels like a bike Frodo would ride in the absolutely most wonderful way

[@djkenny1202]

It’s beautiful! I prefer bar end shifters. Not sure about so springy, and price is definitely prohibitive. Its gorgeous though!

[@turboseize]

What a nice bike!

[@sandrochiavaroBeerCircles]

“Frame of reference” 😉

[@ShiningTrapezoid]

Work of art

[@chrispatoz]

NICE!! I would love one :) thanks for the review :)

[@lxmayhem]

Amazing bike, but i do agree with the majority of the comments here, 4K is a lot of money!!!. You do have options for a lot less... But the craftmanship is amazing.

[@sergiografbike]

Amazing Bike!! We NEED same like this here at Brasil!!

[@brianmerryman6743]

Awesome bike! Nicely done.

[@mikedeal7457]

Not my cup of tea. Definitely not giving up disc brakes and not gonna reach down to the down tube to shift anymore. I do like the sound of a light springy steel frame though.

[@devoidbmx1]

They also have a simular bike but with disc brakes and modern shifters. Called the Allure Libre.

[@rollinrat4850]

I built a rim brake low trail fork out of the extra light Kaisei blades. Its the most comfortable fork I've ever owned. So comfortable I almost forget it's not the front suspension on my hardtail mtb! I ride this rando bike offroad lots, just like all my bikes, all road or MTBs. I'm a dedicated underbiker. When you use disc brakes, you need heavier fork blades to withstand disc braking loads. That makes the fork less flexible and quite a bit less comfortable. These rando sort of bikes are made to ride very long distances. Comfort is king in my opinion. Disc brakes are great for charging hard down hills but that's not my intention on a rando bike. Its not a race. I know how to make caliper brake powerful 'enough' to lock the wheel. I also know how to apply both brakes to stop fast and how to corner fast. I had bought a Soma low trail fork for another bike earlier. At the time, I could only buy the disc version. Its quite a bit heavier. (I'm not a weight weenie) It rides ok, but it's not nearly as comfortable as the fork I built. There's a marked difference in the way each fork rides.

[@TimCalvin]

Serious bikes cost serious money- and my cup of tea is not for everyone. I’m not a big low-trail fan, but I also don’t carry lots of stuff or do 400k brevets. You know? And I really dig good steel. But I came up on downtube shifters, and... there are better options now. I’ve used those center pull brakes, and... we can do better. It’s always a tough line for me between nostalgia and rose tinted glasses. I wish there were disc mounts. And I don’t like the cranks. But it’s a beautiful bike, and I’m sure there are some people for whom there is no better cup of tea- and I’m happy this bike exists for them.

[@sheilastallard]

Reminds me of my Dawes Galaxy I had about 25 years ago. Norther~Lyon is a beautiful bike very very retro but modern at the same time. If I was to have one I would go with that set up. Now Russ with Laura going "Breadwinner" are going Norther Lyon?

[@ShiftyJim]

Great video! Randonneuring bikes are the original gravel bike and very cool in my opinion. Did you experience any toe overlap with the 36 trail? Would you eventually get used to the handling and love it, or would you rather just ride a higher trail bike?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

No overlap with size 9 shoes. I think you could ultimately adjust. Wish I had a chance to put front panniers on it though to really see how frail affects that.

[@alancrome3684]

Honestly, for a bike meant to take as much as it's meant for, $4K doesn't seem like much.. It's a "Specialist tool" instead of someone who likes fitness on a bike and wants to take it up a notch, but their options are like $500-$5,000 over what they should cost..

[@philhouck3560]

I was very much interested in your comments about this frame. I am looking to purchase a touring bike with the vertical flex that I need for the really long rides I like to do. Can you please comment on the stability of the bottom bracket in terms of the lateral movement of the chainrings under heavy load such as that encountered on a steep hill. I don't want to have to trim the front derailleur every time I shift to a different cog. Thanks!

[@AdventuresWithDaniel]

Sweet ride, it looks like that saddle is pointed upwards? Was it adjusted that way intentionally?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

That’s how it was set up.

[@peppermintp2610]

Beautiful bicycle!

[@michaelhayward7572]

Bloody beautiful !

[@withfilm]

I know Tabor when I see it! 😉

[@NoFrictionZone]

What are your thoughts on the Surly Cross Check? maybe for next week's Q&A?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Haven't reviewed the Cross Check, but did review the Straggler it's disc brake cousin. kzbin.info/www/bejne/poarkn2erL5qeqM

[@nirajshr]

How was the front end suspension. Can you tell if it's comfier compared to carbon forks work super tires? And how does it compare to the Ritchey bike which you liked for it's springiness.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I think hands down more comfier than any carbon fork. I think for carbon forks to pass safety tests they have to be overbuilt. I would say that this bike was much springier than than the Ritchey all around.

[@nguyenmr8862]

Nice ! Please tell me what width of tyres?

[@niknice1646]

I need this bike

[@chrislang8553]

Wonder why they didn't choose bar end shifters ?

[@steveb1972]

Chris I guess they wanted to REALLY go old school! This would suit me as my latest bike is my first with front shifters! I’m old school too! Lol

[@chrislang8553]

Steven Bird I grew up with down tube friction shifters. Always frowned on the bar end shifters, but I have grown to really like them.

[@steveb1972]

Chris I have to say I’ve never tried bar end shifters. A friend has them on his bike. I must ask him to let me give it a spin!

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Ultra light. Less housing :)

[@michaelmann6482]

And DT shifters 4ever👍

[@greggarrett7409]

does that bag require a rack below to support it? mt tabor ------------- how'd it do in a climb?

[@lukashartwig3214]

How were those center pull brakes? I only know them mounted with one central bolt and think those are too flexy and not very effective. However Jan Heine raves about the version that is used here with two mount at the fork blades/seat stays. How strong are they and how is modulation in your experience, Russ?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

They were awesome. Worked so much better than cant's. About as strong as v-brakes IMO.

[@JosephDowski]

Just curious, I notice that many older and/or dedicated rando bikes have the saddles tilted nose up. Many of the bikes also run Brooks saddles as well. This seems counter-intuitive yet there's obviously something to it? :)

[@michaelcinibulk9500]

Joseph Dowski For me my saddles all need to be nose or I slide forward especially with brooks which are not flat front to rear.

[@SavGaEckmann]

What Rando handle bar is that? Nitto B135?

[@137lll]

Beautiful bike 🤩, what's its max tire clearance?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

42 with fenders. 48 without.

[@delta85us2000]

25 lbs with the bag?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Yeah. Bag. Fenders. Rack. Pedals. Doesn't even have too many truly weight weenie parts either.

[@bramverbeek7109]

Light steel bikes are a joy to ride, but I'm not giving up my Magura's or rear STI (I ride with a Claris and canti in the back, and magura hs77 with bar end shifter in the front). Downtube shifting is a big no for me. I'm happy just to seek out the right old race frame, and build my bike from that.

[@GreenmanWood]

Make a disc version and you've got me.

[@marshallferron]

It wouldn't ride the same with discs because the fork and to a lesser extent the rear triangle would have to be made stiff enough to counter the extra torque at the axle.

[@GreenmanWood]

@@marshallferron Fair enough, that just makes it not for me.

[@djkenny1202]

@@GreenmanWood a 5 yr old Trek 520 is great. Before they added the aluminum fork and let go of index shifter

[@iancharless]

No hydraulic disc brakes, downtube shifters, $4000 dollars! 🤦‍♂️GTFOH

[@MrJohnHartman]

Randonneuring takes you 100’s of miles from home, overnight, often solo, sometimes in shitty weather always under time pressure and sleep deprived. Reliability and field serviceability are highly prized, so it’s not unusual at all for people to choose downtube shifters. I’m positive Norther will build yours with whatever components you want.

[@AdrianBresfelean]

Please please pretty please add metric on your videos, at least as overlay on your video cause, you know, don‘t make me exit your vid to look up the size...

[@firesurfer]

Tough. It is what it is. If I can convert to metric, you can convert to standard.

[@owltune5496]

Lost me at north or 4g,s

[@markdale6104]

Setting price aside for a moment, is this bike or this style of bike too delicate for taller/heavier riders? Or to ask another way, is there a height or weight ceiling to supple?

[@adhunt1]

Mark Dale fwiw I'm 6'1, 210lbs and ride an old race bike with identical diameter tubing, one thickness up (8/5/8 tt, 9/6/9 dt) and I love it!

[@waisinglee1509]

If you check out the Norther site, it says that the recommended weight limit for this bike is around 180lbs.

[@waisinglee1509]

Bad news, Norther is shutting down.

[@gffriedman]

In light of how you pronounce Velo Orange, shouldn’t this be the “Norther Leon”

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

No. Lyon is the surname of Jeff Lyon and doesn’t reference the town in France and isn’t pronounced that way.

[@tygraham]

Where did you take the riding footage? PDX?

[@MostAdmiredRelative]

Mount Tabor in SE Portland. I ride it once a week at least!

[@tygraham]

Tim McCormick I’m not from PDX but just walked up Mt Tabor recently. Thought it looked familiar.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Mt Tabor in PDX.

[@MostAdmiredRelative]

@@tygraham It's pretty convenient to have something like Tabor nearby. I ride all 6 entrances to the top and call it 6 Flags over Tabor. :)

[@MostAdmiredRelative]

@@tygraham And welcome to Portland. Come back and visit again!

[@jameshleba8463]

Way overpriced but cool. Get a wabi thunder and throw some velo orange fenders and rack and you have a far better bike for less then half.

[@zacmorrison4314]

Lyon is pronounced Lee - on. Its in France. Great looking bicycle.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Lyon is pronounced Lion because it’s Jeff Lyons name.

[@zacmorrison4314]

Shouldn't that be Lyons on the frame then?You say Tomato I say Tomatoe. Is it pronounced Bianchee or Biankee in Bianchi bicycles? Whiskey and Whisky........Yes please.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Take it up with them. I pronounced it like I was told from them.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Jeff Lyon non possessive form.

[@zacmorrison4314]

WHISKEEE! Highly possessive form.

[@Colonist83]

Sucks they've gone out of business.

[@woodchuckforestry293]

First

[@bilwit]

...no emphasis mentioning ancient, inconvenient down-tube shifters and v-brakes? come on russ, these are huge negatives to consider

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Those are components and can be easily changed if you want (its a custom bike after all). What's unique is the frame and I decided to focus on that. Also the MAFAC center pulls worked surprisingly well!

[@climbbikesurf]

@@PathLessPedaledTV I have hydraulic disc brakes that I love but want to go with rim brakes on a travel bike. How does the MAFAC center pulls compare? My cyclocross bike had canti brakes that sucked and changed them to TRP CX 8.4 mini-v which is much better but not as good as hydraulic discs. I've been seriously looking at the center pulls with braze-ons like this bike.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Mike Tsoi the MAFACs were surprisingly good! Worked better than any cantis I’ve tried. Allows for more room between the pad and rim than the mini-v. Felt nearly as effective as V-brakes.

[@fordkend]

You seem to be a low-cadence rider. I suspect that "planing" would apply less to one who keeps a low cadence.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Complete opposite. I’m usually spinning at 80-90.

[@fordkend]

@@PathLessPedaledTV The guys who are athletically planing now are often at 100 - 105. We saw it coming, for example, when Armstrong spent a good part of his time trial up Alp de Huez spinning at 105. 30 years ago your cadence was the norm. But that changed. Planing is benefit of high cadence.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

@@fordkend It's not actually if you've read any Jan. It has more to do with frame flex. A light rider on a stiff bike with a high cadence doesn't lead to planing. With regards to Armstrong I think his performance was probably more EPO induced than any planing.

[@davidcummings5826]

What do I think of the bike? I think I just ji**ed in my pants... New most supple bike?

[@kerime.7861]

I loved your videos. But it's so annoying the frequence of the word "supple" in your videos now. Apart from that, really interesting videos !

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Just mentally replace supple with “laterally stiff yet vertically compliant” and you’ll make it through.

[@JosephDowski]

@@PathLessPedaledTV Lol! Funny cause I got pretty worn out from hearing, "laterally stiff, vertically compliant..", from every bike manufacturer a few years ago. :)

[@hyperbolicsign6542]

lol, 25 pounds is not light for a bike like this xD My usual steel frame bike wheigs around 21 pound and i considered that to be heavy. This guy has no clue about bikes, eventhough hes fascinated by them.. what a joke