You are probably OVERGEARED

[@SilveryK-v8q]

The issue with wide cassettes is the large gaps between gears, which can also lead to faster exhaustion. I found that the ideal gearing would be 42/26x11-28 or 11-30 (10-30 if it's a 12 speed SRAM, but only RH sells appropriate cranksets and they're never in stock). This configuration gives decently low gearing for the harder climbs, and no gaps above 10% especially in the range of speeds that sees the most use (20-35 kph). And 42x11 is way more than what most would ever use in randonneuring.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

You bring up some good points Jocelyn. With a 46/30, the top end is still beyond what is needed for actual randonneuring where pedaling above 45kph or even 40kph is wasted effort. 46-11 is useful when training though. I used 44/26 and 11-32 with 11 speed on my old Ti gravel bike and loved that setup. I'll pin your post as anyone sensitive to big jumps would benefit from your implementation. My old crankset was a hack, and it might not be possible on direct mount front derailleur bikes. GRX and a wider range cassette are easily available and can be added to any bike at least. Thanks for your comment!

[@markthomas3853]

I've landed on the same gearing... lets me keep my 10 spd sram red stuff... I did goto a barcon shifter for the front as I hate the way the red (non Yaw adjustment) shifts and trims... the 42t covers the majority of my riding and the 26t is far more of a bail out gear anyway... given the option I'd just set it up as a downtube shifter... but my frame lacks that option.

[@cheynisaville9612]

Lol I have just built a 9 speed down tube shifter with a 44 36 26 11-34, I'm not sure why I didn't do it sooner its perfect. And yes I rock cantilever brakes.

[@chrisw1090]

A note to say how useful I found your comment. I think I have been struggling with over-gearing for years and what you have done is likely to be the direction I follow. Like you I also have down tube shifters. I hope your build worked out and you are satisfied with it.

[@markthomas3853]

ah old MTB crankset gearing :)... my touring bike is running slightly more "modern" 9 spd mtb gearing with the 42-32-22... only because that is what I had on hand when I built the bike... I built up a 29er as a "road" bike about 15 years back and only once did I find the 42t-11 combo under geared... that was when I was doing a charity ride and ended up in a nice flowing pace line... had to speed up the cadence a bit to keep up... 44t would have prob been "just right"

[@cheynisaville9612]

​@@markthomas3853 The way i see it is if im going at 30mph then its time to enjoy the free ride on the other hand i can choose how hard i go on a hill depending on how i feel. I love sometimes peddling up a steep hill at 80rpm with little effort and enjoy the hill.

[@jag3384]

Love the segment at the end with the 8/9 speed spoof. That's me to a tee!

[@miroslavblanarik4864]

Same here. This is what I have set up for my kids - a tripple crank as a double with -/39/26 and 12-36 using a 9-speed Deore mech with Ultegra shifters. We rode across some of the famous climbs in the Central & Western Alps as well as the Pyrenees. With the right gearing also youngsters are able to climb.

[@Digi20]

Over the years i transformed my roadbike to 2x11 46/28 (GRX with T.A. small ring) and 11-36 in the back. I could go 11-40 but there is no cassette available with 11-12-13 cogs for 11 speed. i like that in between gear with the 11-36 sunrace cassette. its quite the perfect range for more endurance focused rides. for longer touring i would actually even go lower to a 42/24 crankset or something similar, but i have my gravel tourer for that. 40-30-22 with 11-42 climbs just about anything comfortably.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Yours might get my vote for best randonneuring drivetrain setup. Very nice!

[@Digi20]

@@overbikedrandonneuring both bikes are shimano di2 equipped - which allowed to use XT(R) MTB components for drop bar on the 3x11 gravel bike. it wasnt even that extremely expensive as no one wants triple cranksets anymore for MTBing so the once extremely expensive front and rear deraileurs can be had quite cheap on sale or used if you take some time searching. the crankset as well. i really like that setup. with the big cassette and 40 tooth front ring its basically 1x most of the time, with a comfortably small jump down to 30 front tooth for longer steady climbs and then there is still the 22 tooth bail out gear for very steep hills and/or when carrying heavy luggage.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

​@@Digi20 Thanks for sharing more details. I need to hop on some used part marketplaces

[@HorshamHaberstroh]

Your articulate and informed presentations are illuminating. I’m not a randonneur, just a simpleton who commutes. Ahh, the joys of overgearing!😅. That is my issue, hence I am now continuing to explore gearing options. Your commentary is immensely helpful. They are entertaining and intelligent. I know it requires much effort to post a quality video. Unfortunately, my lone accolades are insufficient. Thank you, though!

[@breathestrongcycling3672]

I find gearing to be a search for the elusive unicorn. Some days you can push it and some days you can't no matter what cassette or cranks you're running. Get it somewhere in the ballpark and forget the math.....or just run single speed and be in the wrong gear ALL the time 👍

[@Hathasolar1]

Thanks for your channel, so so so helpful..... And clever

[@JohnnyRabbitQC]

I'm a ''one bike'' person for now. Living in appartment I don't have much space for n+1. I built a gravel bike with GRX groupset. I'm a spinner so I changed the chainrings for Specialités T.A. 44/28 chainrings and combined this with a 11-32 cassette. This gives me 400% high and 87.5% low. 🚴‍♂

[@stewartwilson382]

TA chain rings! If only they wete still making them! Are they?

[@muddytweed]

Great video! I rode Berlin-Munich-Berlin (1500km, 11,000me) on a 52/34 (yes) 11-34. It felt pretty good the first 3 days, but the last few days were lots of pushing up steep hills. This summer I’m doing 2500km/31,000me - and will try to get a 50/30 11-34 or similar. Fingers crossed!!

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Those are monster rides! Good luck and ride safely. 30-34 low is a comfortable option to have.

[@muddytweed]

Not the shortest I’ve been on, but it’s certainly better than sitting at a desk all day!

[@lojeda]

What a great video, specially with the websites provided, many thanks!

[@raptorboy00]

It's so cool to see a Korea-based cycling youtuber! Over the past few years I've honed my ratio to 40/24 11-36 but I'm fat and do a lot of loaded touring.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Thank you, it's been fun to make these videos. What crankset are you using for 40/24? That kind of range is pretty suitable for Korea. Steep climbs everywhere. I'm 90kg these days, so still going into the red just to stay upright pretty often.

[@Zyzzyx42]

I've always liked the low gears, would rather spin my way up than walk. In mid 90's I ran an 18x32 low gear on my mt bike. Loved it. These days I'm an underpowered recumbent rider, that'd be about 200w FTP. I've set up my recumbent with SRAM AXS as its setup is so much easier, and shifting on a 'bent is great with it. I have a 46/33 up front with a 10-50 rear cassette. I don't have enough chainwrap even with the long cage, so it gets ridden mostly as a 1x setup with a 'bailout' to the 33t for the lowest 2-3 gears. Even on my upright bikes I love the low gearing. My gravel bike is a 32/10-50. Yeah, I spin out top end around 25mph, but at that point extra power input doesn't help much, so coast it! The lowe end though lets me take on some darn silly offroad climbs even after many hours on the bike.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

I learned my appreciation for low gears from recumbent riding, where you can't stand and grind a low cadence up climbs. My favorite recumbent gearing was 50/34 and 11-46 11 speed. The Shimano MTB rear derailleur was able to handle the chain wrap luckily. It was comically low gearing, but came in handy pretty often. I've been doing low gearing hacks on my roads bikes for about 10 years now. Happy only need minor hacks these days with gravel 2x around.

[@peterharrington8709]

Excellent analysis of the gearing options and great to hear you endorsing getting off and walking too. Part of what I'd call utilising the full range of muscle groups! Along with occasionally standing and grinding at 30 rpm. It's all good so long as you get there in the end.😳

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

It's all fun and games to muscle up a steep climb on a little group ride. Very different story when you still have 14 hours of cycling to do! I've moved to Look Keo/Favero pedal systems and have been happy with how cheap the cleats are. Much less prone to walk in expensive Shimano cleats.

[@peterharrington8709]

@@overbikedrandonneuring With wet / icy slippy pot holed roads we have in UK, I'm currently favouring flat pedals, at least for the winter months! Might not be eeking out every last watt, but feels safer.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

@@peterharrington8709 It gets quite cold here in South Korea, so I like my commuter hard tail with hiking boots and non-cycling clothes for recreational winter rides.

[@MrBillboeing]

I crossed Korea 3x Incheon - Sokcho - Incheon the first two times on 52/34 & 11-34 and the last time 50/34 & 11-34 I feel always spinning a bit out with the 50 especially downhill. I can’t imagine the GRX 48 it might be too easy. I guess is a personal preference. How ever I really like your content ✌🏼

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Thanks! It's quite personal and context dependent, but I hope everyone can consider their weight, fitness, ride length, and terrain to make their best choice. I've found randonneuring rewards saving matches rather than burning them, which often means coasting downhills to recover and managing intensity on climbs. I regularly grind 300+ watts despite a 30t small chainring and 40t large cog anyway, so the low gears are needed. Drivetrain efficiency and nicer mid-cassette gear jumps at 30-40kph from a bigger chainring would be nice though. An upcoming build is rather aero and really wants a 50 or 52t big ring while also supporting a .75 or .8 low gear ratio, so it will need more serious hacking than just ignoring Shimano guidelines like I do now. Looking forward to that this fall if the frame is ready on time. I remember getting particularly wrecked in 2015 doing 336km from Seoul to Sokcho with 7200 meters of elevation. Lovely route right near the DMZ. Are you still in Korea?

[@MrBillboeing]

@@overbikedrandonneuring yes I am still in Korea and will be here the next three years. Unfortunately my work schedule is very anti social so I ride 99% alone. I love the credit card bike packing. Korea is very well equipped with convenient stores so not too much supply is needed to carry. But I must say the roads around me suck , towards the central Korea they are way better.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

@@MrBillboeingWork schedule is a big barrier here for sure. If you are looking for some nice routes, the Korea Randonneurs Permanent courses often choose some very nice roads. Piecing together their routes can be a good option. I mostly ride solo too, but their events are a nice way to ride with others if your schedule allows.

[@MrBillboeing]

@@overbikedrandonneuring thanks for the tip ☺️

[@robduncan599]

Having a gear low enough to match getting of and walking and pushing ? Remember a low gear pushing 175mm cranks will be very different to pushing 165m or even 155m cranks . If walking and pushing might be 100cm per step right leg , going up a steep hill to match that on a 700c bike might be 30t crank ×50t cassette ×700c x diameter 3.14 = 131cm per crank revolution. . My opinion is you want a gear that is close to or slightly bigger that getting off and walking ? That might be 50t back 30t front or even lower or higher gear if you are powerfull ?

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

The legendary Sheldon Brown called that concept 'Gain Ratio' and took crank length and tire diameter into account along with crank and cassette sizes. I wouldn't argue that we need gearing to match walking speeds, but rather gearing low enough to cycle most all of our typical terrain without going too far into the red. There will be some times where that's not practical, in which case walking for a few minutes on occasion is a great way to avoid blowing up. What do you run on your bike Rob?

[@JamesWillis-yy5px]

All this is a little over my head. The bike I want to buy is the 22 SILEX 400 XS. With Shimano GRX600; 46-30 ATC, and Shimano CS-HG50; 11-36 ATC; 10 GER cassette. How do i calculate low and high gear ratio? I am getting it for long distance travel, 160km (100 miles). Some hilly areas but nothing very big. First goal in watts, will be 100 watts then higher if I can. I also don't want to be changing gears every time I get better at riding.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Hey James, the GRX gearing on the Silex is a great start and will probably suit you perfectly fine for a very, very long time. As you ride, just check how often you wish for higher or lower gears. If it's really often one way of the other, you may want to adjust the gears. If it only happens sometimes, you are probably well set up. The climbs in my area often require 300 watts or more just to keep the pedals moving with a 46/30 crank and 11-40 cassette. If your fitness is in a place of rapid growth, you can wait until you plateau a bit before making any changes. It would be great to hear how you get along with the Silex.

[@michaelviglianco6121]

The things people do to avoid a triple when they need a trople is funny

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

It's true, most people do try to avoid triples. Last month I did a 400k brevet on my bike with 3x9 speeds. It has almost exactly the same overall range and jumps between gears as my 2x described in this video. It takes more attention to manage and is a worse overall experience as a result. That's without even considering the older components that tend to shift clunky. My 2x wide range set up is simply nicer to use. In the 46t ring for most of the ride. Only shift down when the road really starts to point up. Very nice.

[@chrisblacklock9468]

I use a Gevenalle shifter set with a 51-10 dinner plate and a 34 tooth single front mtb stuff on my drop bar gravel bike. Climbs like a goat! Pretty cheap too.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

That sounds really suitable for heavy gravel conditions or riding with a load. Thanks for sharing! Gevenalle is great for tinkering.

[@spin2win721]

I’ve recently stumbled upon the best gearing option for my terrain. 11 speed 46/30 crankset 9-34 e-thirteen cassette *need to use XDR hub body*

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Your YT name screams an appreciation for low gears. Glad you found what works for you. How is the 46/9 gear?

[@spin2win721]

@@overbikedrandonneuring it’s freakin great. It’s equivalent to a gear slightly bigger than a 56-11. You can carry speed after a really good descent for a really long time or if your in a fast peloton it’s daym near impossible to get dropped on the flats.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Nice! At those speeds, the peloton might here my voice growing fainter in the distance, "See you at the cafeeeeee"

[@michaelsherwin4449]

At 66yo I'm a newbie to cycling. So maybe there is something I'm not understanding about road gearing. It doesn't seem anyone is doing it right. Here is one example how I'd approach it. I'd do 50/46 up front and 11/50 in the rear with an 11 speed cassette. 46 50 0.92 50 50 1.00 46 42 1.10 50 42 1.19 46 36 1.28 50 36 1.39 46 31 1.48 50 31 1.61 46 27 1.70 50 27 1.85 46 23 2.00 50 23 2.17 46 20 2.30 50 20 2.50 46 17 2.71 50 17 2.94 46 15 3.07 50 15 3.33 46 13 3.54 50 13 3.85 46 11 4.18 50 11 4.55 There are no redundant gear ratios. The lower gear ratios are tighter together when the going is tough. The mid range spacing seems fine. And the higher gears can handle any decent. What am I not understanding?

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Hi Michael, thank you for watching. Your proposed gearing was commonly referred to as 'half-step gearing' back in the days of 8 and 10 speed bikes. Major changes are done on the rear cluster, with minor tuning done on the front. It's similar in function to the 6-speed setup on my Brompton. You actually could cobble that together with modern components and give it a try. The common system where fine tuning is done on the rear simply has fewer levers to pull (less double-shifting) for a similar effect, and rear derailleurs shift more smoothly than front derailleurs. I'd love to see a modern half-step system though. Let me know if you put one together.

[@mk30b25]

3x9 deore drivetrain, friction shifters, 11-36 11 speed cassette

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

I've got 3x9 on my recumbent. 24/36 is really useful since recumbents climb poorly.

[@markthomas3853]

well after watching this way too many times and simulating some of the climbs I'll be seeing on a long/big ride in a month or so on my trainer I've made some pretty big gearing changes... I'm a fatty at #300... ended up swapping the 52/39 crankset for a triple... tossed the 52 in the trash, kept the 42 and swapped the 30 for a 26... went to a barcon for the front shifter... out back I've maxed out the 10 spd sram red derailleur with a 11-30... the 42t covers most of the stuff I regularly ride and the 26t offers a nice bail out gear...

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

That reminds me of the gearing I set up some years back on a gravel bike. Took an MTB triple crank and moved the 44t to the middle position and had a 26t small ring. 11-32 out back. Quite nice. A good thing with SRAM 10 speed is compatibility with MTB parts. I once had a 10 speed SRAM Rival setup using a compact crank and 11-36 cassette with an X9 derailleur. Really low gearing for a road bike in 2015. Of course, the shifting on a narrow range cassette and short cage derailleur is really snappy and responsive. That pleasant tactile feeling isn't quite the same with wide range setups. Glad the video was useful for you!

[@markthomas3853]

@@overbikedrandonneuring I did run a GX rear derailleur for a bit on it because I could use the 10 speed stuff... but some play in the hanger bolt caused issues with it wanting to shift down to the 11t cog... apparently because it's the later 10spd sram red it'll shift 11 speed as well... I do miss the road/MTB cross compatible days... anyway TY for posting your calculators you used, between them and some stuff Path Less Pedalled posted the 1x setup with a bail out gear seems to be about perfect for me haha... same way I ran my MTB back in the day when I found the 11-36 wasn't quite enough for me with a 1x (the super large cassettes where just becoming a high end thing when I stopped riding)... on my MTB gaps have never been an issue... but road I can only stand so much haha.

[@StanEby1]

Smart and funny 😁

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Thanks Stan!

[@Cokecanninja]

I have a 48/31 crankset and 11-38t cassette which is still quite low and lets me go screaming fast down descents.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

@Cokecanninja that's a wonderful combination. More than enough top end and a great climbing gear. I bet jumps between gears are suitable too

[@Cokecanninja]

@@overbikedrandonneuring I considered going with a 46/29t crankset which would be even lower, but I also like taking this bike on fast group rides where we hit 50+kmh at times so the extra top end is nice to have for that

[@sergiografbike]

👏👏👏👏YOU EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE WATH IS "THE REAL LIFE"!!!!

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Thanks Sergio! I've been a low gear advocate for about 10 years. Glad you found this helpful.

[@CharlesG-d7q]

13:06 man 9s is black and white... my poor 6 speed frankenstain of a bike is still alive eh. Just joking, I live in a floodplain, but if I ever need to climb any hill, I'd probablly change the bike (its 15kg don't help either)

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Haha just having some fun. In my house, our bikes are 6 speed, 8 speed, 2 with 9 speed, and an 11 speed. Thanks for watching!

[@MrSandperson0]

Where's the Campy? 🤣

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Ha! It's out there somewhere trying to find relevance. I wish them luck, but won't hold my breath.

[@jojoanggono3229]

I changed my 50/34T and 11~32T sprocket, 50T front is too high for me, and 34T front/32T sprocket combination is not low enough for me. Now I use 1x system, 40T front and 11~42T sprocket. I calculated this combo is good for climb down to 10kph, and max speed up to 40kph while maintaining 80rpm cadence. Would love to try sub compact crankset, perhaps 46/30T but it is very difficult to get in where I live.

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Glad you found the calculations useful! I had a 1x bike with that 40/42 combination for a couple of years living in Canada. It was nearly perfect for the local rolling terrain. The jumps from 11t to 13t, and 13t to 15t on the cassette were a bit big at high effort though. 1x was nice for maintenance and aesthetics (presumably aero too). Another bike had 1x and 11-46 on the back. When I moved to a compact on the front, the 34/46 combination gave comically low gearing. You'll get a similar experience when you try a subcompact. Good luck finding one! Sometimes the BB386 FSA models can be found from online retailers.

[@markbellinger1096]

Oh please, we arent talking pros.Get on your bike and pedal....

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

I don't follow... are you suggesting only pros should get off their bike and walk?

[@markbellinger1096]

@@overbikedrandonneuring obviously you don't because nothing I said had anything to do with walking....Just tired of all these rec. cyclist pretending to be elite because they use the latest "tech". Personally I know my body and don't need to know my "watts" or zones. I get on and ride...

[@overbikedrandonneuring]

Hahaha! Me as an elite cyclist is laughable. Did you even watch the video? I suggest that typical road gearing is often too high for many normal people and that it's okay to walk when the hills are too steep. Very elite mindset, right? Having power data on the topic is valuable because research has shown non-elite endurance athletes typically overpace when they feel fresh, which causes struggles later on. Research found elite athletes pace more evenly and successfully. Too high gearing can exacerbate this tendency by forcing a hard climbing pace. This is all measurable with a power meter; data we can use to choose appropriate gearing and target sustainable pacing. My video is addressing a problem shown by scientific research to be prevalent in non-elite athletes. And you accuse me of pretending to be elite. For reference, this channel's main topic is randonneuring: non-competitive, non-professional time-bound cycling events typically 200km-1200km in length. My thesis is that randonneuring is hard, so we should optimize our equipment and strategies to increase our chances of success and enjoyment. If you live in a flat area and/or avoid long rides, this will not apply as much to your riding context or appeal to you frame of reference. But if you are keen, why not join your local Audax club and see how well your intuition guides you on a 600k and report back? Your local chapter can be found in section 5: www.audax-club-parisien.com/en/our-organizations/brm-world/