Hercules, Disney's Beautiful Hot Mess: a Video Essay

[@demint5664]

Once I saw this comment that said “the biggest historical inaccuracy that Disney has ever committed is portraying Zeus as a happy family man” and that gets me every time

[@demint5664]

@@wise_girl9388 the way you say it makes Hera sound super interesting, jsksjsk. I’m not very versed in Greek mythology, tho, so I’m sure it’s not as fun as I imagine:(

[@Trollestiatumblur]

And making Hades to be a bad guy! This is all because of Christianity.

[@adeepdive_8205]

@@demint5664 so, Hera is a very interesting mythological figure, but not in a heroic way. she was forced to marry her brother Zeus (f*cking d*psh*t motherf*cker) and had three children with him: Hephaistos, Ares, and Hebe. Unlike other gods, she didn't sleep with literally everyone in the world, she stayed relatively loyal to Zeus. Hera agreed to marry Zeus since after he was rejected for the 100th time, he took the form of a small bird in a storm so she would pity him and bring him within her chambers; when she did so, he changed back into a human and raped her. She felt impure due to that event, so she finally agreed to marry him. She's also known for taking revenge on literally every single lover Zeus had (she was somewhat justified): she turned one into a bear, another into a cow (indirectly), and made a large serpent chase a woman in labor for two years. There is so much to talk about, but unfortunately, I have to go. Yeah, i suggest you read her wiki page or something, she's interesting.

[@Molly-tv5sv]

@@adeepdive_8205 well she even came to represent marriage and monogamy both because of the faithfulness and the revenge :)

[@adeepdive_8205]

@@Molly-tv5sv yeah, that too

[@Beretboytoy]

The thing that gutted me the most about Hades never realising that Hercules wasn't dead all those years is the fact that he is literally the God of the underworld - The place where dead people go. If ANYONE should know when someone's dead, it should be him! Like did he just never look around and think "hey, has anyone seen Herc?"

[@bravetigerproud6895]

I'm pretty sure there are a few others more qualified to know who has and has not died than Hades. He ruled the whole realm not just the dead people. And there were other gods in the Underworld: Hecate, Charon, Thanatos, Zagreus (son of Hades), Macaria (daughter of Hades), and the Keres (1 of 5 terrors of war and goddesses of violent death), just to name a few. Given the way Hades wanted Hercules to die in the movie, i.e. violently, I'd say the Keres and Charon would be more likely to know if he was actually dead. Or maybe Thanatos, the god that personified death himself would have known. In short, you can't put all the blame on Hades. He's a busy guy and aparently everyone forgets the gods that aren't Olympians or Hades (no, he's not an Olympian).

[@wopachop4582]

@@bravetigerproud6895 ha, awesome, didn't know any of that stuff, the more you know right?

[@bravetigerproud6895]

@@wopachop4582 Most people forget about the minor deities. A similar argument turned my mythology class a few semesters ago into a full on debate between me (a Pagan who has been taught about these deities and how to show them the respect they deserve and was taking that class for an easy A) and the other 20-somthing students before the professor arrived. Awesome thing about that was that the professor let the debate go on for the first half hour of class before telling the class that I was right and starting her lecture on archetypes. (Edited for spelling)

[@highonquack6622]

Babies don't have souls

[@bravetigerproud6895]

@High Definition It's like symbolism in literature and mythology. I didn't really understand it as much as I should have.

[@hothotheat3000]

One thing I always found unique about this was that Meg appears to be older than Hercules. How many Disney movies have a romance with a female character who is older than the guy?

[@WarriorAuranae]

hothotheat3000 I never thought about her being older - sure she definitely had at least one relationship before Herc. But now that you mention it, he's barely 18, so I could see her being one or more years older. Though I can't tell if she’s mature because she’s older, or she just acts/is that mature regardless of age.

[@hothotheat3000]

The way that she is drawn and her voice all read as her being older. Not like mid-30s older, but they are not the same age, no way.

[@Whatsuppbuddies]

Meg is always the exception, what with her being exceptional and everything.

[@hanaortiz7596]

i've always thought meg could be pretty old, because hades would've kept her 'immortal' as long as he had her soul, and they seemed to have been working together for a while.

[@Mai2727]

Kida from Atlantis is thousands of years old. So I guess she wins? 😂

[@fukyomammason]

The words ‘NOT BEING FAITHFUL’ over Zeus and Hera having a positive relationship is the best thing ever.

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

Ikr

[@jvgreendarmok]

It was unfaithful because it made them faithful!

[@DeltaJim]

"Is [the doggy tag] in case Zeus forgets his name?" Given the number of illegitimate kids Zeus fathered, probably.

[@Kongstudios2]

You could in fact ascribe nearly every Greek myth to the moniker: "and Zues beheld a *insert literally every known and unknown organism in the universe* and was rendered instantly smitten!"

[@timothymclean]

​@@Kongstudios2 It was a plot twist when Zeus decided _not_ to bang someone! (Thetis, a nereid who both Zeus and Poseidon fell in lust with, but who was prophesied to bear a son stronger than his father, so they passed her off to some wimpy Thessalian king.)

[@samanthacabarles1065]

H O W M A N Y K l D S A G A l N ?

[@AVspectre]

That was my thought exactly. :)

[@c.d.dailey8013]

LOL Good point. Hercules is more memorable. That is the Roman version though. The Greek version is Heracles. So this love child is named after the wife. The wife being named Hera. That is memorable. Hera tormented Heracles a whole lot in the origional myth. In the Disney version, Hades gets the antagonist role instead.

[@shockingheaven]

I just enjoy the movie because it has a unique visual style, great music, Meg, and that himbo as a protagonist.

[@scremmy_draws]

what about hades?

[@shockingheaven]

eyubeon I didn’t even mention him because we know that’s the best part

[@engrammi]

I always felt like Hades is the center piece of the movie as he is awesome. Especially in the Finnish version the voice actor is sooo good.

[@jaxofspades9571]

@@engrammi Finnish Hades is my favourite Hades dub over ngl--

[@ajuwaaa]

yeah, I mean hades had an objective and faults, herc was just strong and that's that but I really love the music and style, it's definitely the best thing in this movie

[@mikkile0n]

As far as Hades not knowing Herc was alive for 18 years, I could buy the argument that Hades is a god and immortal, therefore, 18 years might actually not be a terribly long amount of time for him.

[@kylecampbell565]

That’s a good point I never considered

[@patrickmoriarty1564]

that makes more sense at least but the movie frames it like killing Herc is his main thing. You'd think he'd be staring at the portal to the underworld waiting for a baby.

[@pineapplefrostyfruits9225]

Pain and Panic murdered a ginger toddler off screen. Makes sense, huh?

[@savvasashikalis3698]

@Siper the underworld is for human souls tho

[@gravygoon6063]

He didn’t hear about Sisyphus for a fat minute if I’m not mistaken

[@catherinecao4810]

I always thought that Hercules equated “the fame and fortune” with “acceptance.” That’s all he ever wanted.

[@lucyheartfilliadragneel]

Same here. I always saw it as being accepted in a shallow way by millions vs being accepted in a deep way by one person

[@waywardmind]

But he never equated those. He literally never mentions either of them. He's only ever annoyed by fame, and that for a split second of a montage and the painting scene, and he doesn't even acknowledge money to any degree. That's the disconnect. The writers knew that _the audience_ equated worthiness with fame and wealth, and they hoped we'd just transfer our own valuations over to the character. But they don't.

[@anni1348]

But for that plot to work out he needed to want or either perceive fame and fortune as "acceptance", but he never does seek out fame, he quit literally says he hates it right after the montage scene.

[@lars7282]

But even THIS point was mega weak in the movie. First they make a huge deal about his clumsiness and then the acceptance part never becomes a thing again

[@maxwellg.2755]

Given Zeus' infidelity, the whole "Hercules has a dog tag in case Zeus forgets his name" was hilarious! lol

[@tobybartels8426]

But Zeus isn't unfaithful in this version; Hera is Hercules's mother, and she loves him.

[@maxwellg.2755]

@@tobybartels8426 I know, but it's still funny given the mythological reference lol

[@tobybartels8426]

@@maxwellg.2755 : True.

[@brianbrush5107]

@@tobybartels8426 We know he's not Unfaithful in THIS case. But wether or not all his other kids are legitimate or not is unclear.

[@tobybartels8426]

@@brianbrush5107 : I suppose, but this is Disney … what do you think?

[@paul.maria.k]

2:46 "Indoor plumbing - it's gonna be big" hahaha, oh my God, in the German dub she says "Elvis lives - don't tell anybody"

[@bradypostma5167]

Hahaha, that's hilarious!

[@MrMickeyminny]

I could never figure out why i don't like the movie then i realized that Hercules was voiced by Til Schweiger??! Who's idea was that?? anyway once i watched the english version i really liked it hahhahaha

[@electrafabcap5109]

In the Greek dub she says "Pizzas will be delivered at homes with a phone call" so like every country added its own joke I suppose

[@bradypostma5167]

I knew they did a bunch of nation-specific jokes in the Avengers films and in Zootopia, but I didn't know they did such things as early as Hercules.

[@milenaporto7154]

@@electrafabcap5109 Unfortunately, in Brazil they kept the same meaning that is in the original language hahahahah

[@ilikecats3687]

Honey, you mean *HUNKULES*

[@williewillie5622]

OUR STORY BEGINS

[@0927kira]

hercules made me gay

[@liu_yifei_is_baepotato6985]

LONG BEFORE HERCULES...

[@mez8801]

ilikecats Hercules can get it tbh

[@Tymanus666]

@@0927kira Same

[@insertwittyname5649]

I just rewatched Hercules and I think I finally realized why I loved it as a kid. Its not a history lesson, not a serious moral. Its just trying to have fun, which is what I'm looking for at the end of the day. But I've heard talk of a live-action remake and I'm pretty concerned they'll try to make it more "accurate" and "serious." At that point you're taking away the only thing Hercules has. I don't exactly watch that movie for the great plot lol

[@vporta3151]

I agree. I loved it and I wasn’t looking for a history lesson. People forget it’s a movie for entertainment.

[@okagron]

@@vporta3151 A movie can be entertaining while giving an history lesson, they aren't incompatible.

[@copingflower1909]

I think thats why in my eyes like with modern movies and shows from nowadays they get more flamed then when movies like Hercules came out, cause as a good example, when Netflix created their documentary film Cleopatra it got absolutely dunked, why?? Because the movie was being outright racist and hostile towards an entire fucking country, in that movies case thats why it and other medias portraying mythology and history nowadays get attacked and rightly so, but with Hercules, its not trying to be super super serious and is just trying to have fun with the ideas that it is basing itself on, and sure maybe some would say about how the movie had a whole song about the gospel and how everything that was told was the truth, but to that I say, they don't remind you of it like every 2 seconds how THIS is how the story went and how THIS was actually what happened without providing historical proof and shit

[@orangeslash1667]

@@copingflower1909 This film come out at the same time as Men in Black, Face off, Batman and Robin. This explains why it underperformed.

[@juliawood2212]

TIL that not everyone grew up loving Hercules?!?! I was genuinely shocked when you said it wasn't a box office success

[@RocaSeba]

Since i was a kid it's always been my favorite Disney animated movie :/

[@hj6507]

Big same

[@Rrextrex]

This

[@SilverArro]

It’s a great movie and I can’t bring myself to trust anyone who feels otherwise.

[@impish_snake3526]

See, I discovered it after being educated about Greek myths; kinda ruined the “family friendly” illusion for me.

[@KenzLovesMovies]

To be fair, Odysseus wasn’t Odysseying for glory, either. Dude was just trying to get home after the Trojan War.

[@theAngryscotman]

I love that because it makes it sound like he took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

[@KenzLovesMovies]

@@theAngryscotman Look, man. Greece is a big place. They weren't very good at making maps. Just getting to Troy in the first place, at the start of the war, was a whole-ass ordeal. Not to mention Poseidon hated the guy. Odysseus had a rough one aight

[@theAngryscotman]

@@KenzLovesMovies Hey, no arguments here. Just sayin'

[@KenzLovesMovies]

@@theAngryscotman lol I know; just giving some more details. I've taken a lot of classes on greek and roman mythology so I'm always anxious to share when it's relevant! You'd be surprised how useful it in in other literary/film analysis courses, actually!

[@snowfloofcathug]

theAngryscotman Is that the place where you can eat your soup right out of the ashtrays if you wanna, it’s okay they’re clean?

[@PhoenixDemon94]

like it or hate it, Disney's Hercules did do something right. they managed to summarize about 90% of Greek mythology with 5 simple words "-and then along came Zeus"

[@exkobri558]

JuggerNuts1994 God... as someone who’s in a mythology class in high school, you just explained more than what I learned this past month.

[@mistahspoke9281]

too bad it wasn't rated R or we'd get everything from greek myths...Mostly Zeus fucking everything in sight

[@Henchgirls]

@@mistahspoke9281 And people somehow giving birth through thighs.

[@vylbird8014]

Zeus did love to meddle in the affairs of mortals. Literally at times.

[@silliussoddus1449]

*GASP* and then the cyclopes created his thunderbolts for him because of the Titans keeping them locked somewhere (idk where) because either they forgot or thought they were too ugly (not joking) like their parents and also the Titans and the Cyclopes are technically siblings because Gaea (mother) and Ouranous (the fuck do you think) had babies but like technically Ouranos was Gaea’s son that she had with herself cos the only other living beings were Tartarus (a pit) and Chaos (the thing that happened when Earth wasn’t around but is still around just sleeping) so that’s incest but so are the Kronos (the leader of the Titans) and Rhea (the mother) who are brother and sister and THEN after they have children (the gods) the children also have children with themselves who sometimes do the same thing but not really so I guess all I’m saying is that you’re not summarising it not even a little ok ill go now.

[@Thrawn369]

Tiny Brain: Hercules Glowing Brain: Heracles Galaxy Brain: Hunkules

[@ashrinker5792]

Thrawn369 it’s wild how like everyone gets what you mean.

[@ZoanBlade90]

Universe Mind: Marvel's Hercules.

[@DGilVids]

ZoanBlade90 Cue the Caddicarus bit! *discordant trombones*

[@DealsFS]

Multiverse brain: a Justin Y. comment

[@LupineShadowOmega]

ZoanBlade90, or that version that dates alternate universe James Howlett with the golden claws.

[@SunjayVideos]

"Pulled by the plot contrivance of destiny" What could be more ancient Greek than that?

[@Serenitybabe15]

that's exactly what i thought!

[@gorillema3276]

Feta cheese?

[@EngelSpiel]

Yogurt and a terrible economy?

[@deraokoli7746]

The ancient Greek playwrights invented the concept of a deus ex machina

[@HajduDIGITAL]

Yeah. And they didn't predict everything.

[@courtneydurham8429]

I remember not liking Meg when I first saw the movie because I was like, "That's not how a Disney princess is supposed to act!" But now that I'm all growed up, she's hands down my favorite and her exclusion from the Disney Princess mafia is a terrible snub.

[@mythios23]

Courtney Durham “Disney Princess Mafia” 😂

[@ingriddubbel8468]

grown up not growed up

[@tripping_on_words]

@@ingriddubbel8468 Ever heard of non-native English speakers? Guess not

[@iwatchkittenvids45]

Well she wasn't a princess

[@mh-wo8ze]

@Iwatchkittenvids45 Nor are Mulan, Moana, Ariel or Pocahontas. Also so many are only princesses by marriage: Snowhite: Tiana, Cinderella, and Belle. The only ACTUAL princesses are Jasmine, Aurora and Rapunzel.

[@eddie-roo]

Also, Hades is like the death receptionist, he would probably know if someone was death or not.

[@alexbradshaw5466]

If someone was death

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

Isn’t that the entity that stirred the riverboat on Styx, they would know each soul? Not Hades, he’s more of a guard for nothing to get out?

[@star3catcherSEQUEL]

>being an insufferable 12 year old who is mad that the movie was unfaithful to Greek mythology I don't like how you're personally attacking me like this.

[@Nerdsammich]

I'm right there with you. Hera wanting to welcome Hercules into the family? Hades being the bad guy? Still cheesed about that.

[@animatorireenie8319]

Actually same

[@lilithcrow6675]

Me too

[@Karen-pk3uv]

Coming from the girl who started using Egyptian hieroglyphics to pass notes in class at about 12 (litterally just for fun not to gossip or cheat.)....I feel you and will gladly stand up and yell "hey....Not cool" with you. I figure every one of us that fell in love with and obsessed over an ancient culture at an "unusually" young age need to stick together lol 😂😂😂 💚😎😎

[@ThreeFlatDucks]

I think you’ll find I’m fourteen

[@thatcutenerdgirl6090]

I mean, Odysseus didn’t ‘go’ odysseying. He was just trying to get home to his wife and son.

[@EJ-bn3tc]

And clearly having fun along the way lol

[@overlydramaticpanda]

Well yes, but he was only in that position thanks to choosing to go off to war against the Trojans. So the original point that Greek heroes were more about personal fame and selfish goals still stands.

[@EJ-bn3tc]

Overly Dramatic Panda I mean he had multiple affairs but expected his wife to be faithful lol I know it was a different time but still

[@idrk3707]

@@overlydramaticpanda no he was forced to fight in the war? Get ur facts straight. He only chooses to hoe around for like 10 years near the end

[@overlydramaticpanda]

@@idrk3707 Technically, it's not as straightforward as saying he was forced to fight. As the King of Ithaca, if he hadn't had an heir then he could have refused, despite his oath of allegience to Menelaus. Unfortunately, his son was already born by that time, and Odysseus' only other plan for getting out of it by feigning lunacy was ruined when he refused to cause harm to his son. So while yes, he ultimately decided to honour his oath (or at least he couldn't use lunacy as an excuse not to go), he's also the one solely responsible for ensuring (multiple times) that the Greek army continued their siege instead of returning home - there are at least two occasions when Agamemnon announces his intentions to give up and go home and both times Odysseus is the one who persuades him not to. The second time he even explicitly invokes the whole "personal fame and glory" thing. Also, he didn't "choose to hoe around" (whatever that means) for 10 years afterwards; he would have returned home fairly quickly if he hadn't repeatedly pissed off Poseidon and got himself cursed to spend 10 years trying to get home and lose all his crew along the way.

[@thevampirefrog06]

6:31 Chances are no one cares, but for full joke appreciation: "I am retired" translates to "Είμαι συνταξιούχος" in modern Greek. Which is to say, two words.

[@thevampirefrog06]

(There's a chance I got the declension wrong, and if so apologies.)

[@lotus-prince]

Wow, that's surprisingly clever. I wonder if the creators were aware of that, or if it's just a happy coincidence.. Thanks for the info!

[@oida10000]

thevampirefrog06 but the question is: does this hold true for accient greek?

[@victoriah4648]

I'm Greek and I should let you know that you got that perfectly right :)

[@thecat_iswatching]

Fun fact: Hera disguised Hercules' wife and kid as monsters. So he killed them not realizing. Hera was a great step-mom...

[@WillemDefoe]

He killed them in a fit of rage

[@galecaie928]

Only half true. See, what happened is Hera disguised Hercules's wife and kids as the family of one of his enemies, and so he murdered them, only to discover that it was his wife and kids.

[@thecat_iswatching]

@Saiyasha27 Greek mythology is so messy. 😐 I don't blame Disney for veering off the track of what's cannon.

[@pillbobaggins2766]

Sounds worse than Lucifer’s mum

[@naha2153]

Klea Tselentis Fun fact: it was actually Heracles that did that. Hercules was his Roman form. Even though Hercules and Heracles are mostly the same, Heracles was Greek and Hercules was Roman

[@nerdyninjatemptress]

I’ve been just as jaded as Meg since I turned 20. Gotta love having a sarcastic and witty Disney heroine though, those are far too rare.

[@blueshard4632]

Do you need/want to talk about it?

[@animatorireenie8319]

Agreed 👍

[@berengustav7714]

Why I like MCU M.J.

[@Neotenico]

I had no idea Thief and the Cobbler was ripped off by Aladdin. I simply knew it was in production purgatory for EONS. But growing up, it was one of my favorite movies to watch and it made me so happy to know that a certified animated movie critic legend knows about it.

[@Zizumia]

I didn't realize either until I found out that some animators who worked on the Cobbler had a falling out with Dick Williams and went to work for Disney. The falling out wasn't unprecedented as Dick was a notoriously strict boss who accepted nothing less than utmost dedication and perfection. But coincidentally, just a couple of years after these animators left for Disney, a perfect time for an animation to be made, Aladdin dropped. Hmmmmm

[@endanarchy]

Three years later, 2020, we watch her chug down Corona and the scene has a different symbolic significance.

[@zombyninja2576]

i want to like your comment, but it has 69 likes

[@headphonic8]

i get it!!! it's corona, like the virus!!!! crazy!!! wow!!!11

[@ziggystardog]

Followed by “I don’t think it’s necessarily a black or white thing...”

[@endanarchy]

@@ziggystardog oh snap. Yeah. I always knew she's on point but now she's just showing off.

[@dr.braxygilkeycruises1460]

@@zombyninja2576 👀 I see what you did there!!!! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

[@TrueMohax]

The two word scene is clever comedy. "I am retired" is "Eímai syntaxioúchos" in Greek.

[@RomanZolanski123]

Holy shit what a language lol

[@madmaninabox3638]

That is clever. And cleverly pointed out as well.

[@mentichi7674]

Actually really clever thanks for the info

[@sweetbananas6077]

I dont get it, aomeone please explain

[@brianpendell6085]

@@sweetbananas6077 It's three words in English but two in Greek. So it sounds like the goat-guy can't count but, in fact, he can and does.

[@MadAnime963]

I'll always be so sad about treasure planet not getting the praise and love it deserved :(

[@jakemetzgar]

It has grown a following though

[@Persnikity-yv3nh]

I'll admit Hunchback is flawed af - but my God if it didn't have the highest highs of Disney intensity. Love it.

[@Vohalika]

I knooow right? Also I'd use Hunchback as a counterpoint to the whole Meg being the first female lead who has experience with men. Esmeralda so has that, too. And is arguably coded even sexier than Meg. Someone cut the goddamn gargoyles out and this movie could have been one of the best, but nooo...

[@Johnny0lovely69]

They can work if they remain frozen during the third act

[@Persnikity-yv3nh]

Yeah... oh well :P

[@Ilikecatsismychannelname]

Also one of the best soundtracks of the 90s. I love the Latin choirs!!! Also Clopin on the high notes. Also leitmotif. LOVE THE SOUNDTRACK!!!

[@mastermarkus5307]

Check out the musical version that came out... last year I think? It uses a lot of songs from the movie but has a fair amount of it's own original songs which are all _great_, and is obviously geared towards adults rather than kids. Of all possible Disney remakes I actually _want_ to see, it's making a movie that's basically just _that musical_ so that I can enjoy the story without feeling all gross when I realize how much time is devoted to Jason Alexander as a gargoyle trying _desperately_ to be funny in a film with _attempted genocide_.

[@elimkwok938]

Treasure planet is one of the most underrated movies by disney

[@DAsObiQuiet]

Amen to that!

[@colbaltmind5696]

And Atlantis!

[@lenajohnson6179]

IMO it is THE most underrated Disney movie.

[@myonlyone8713]

The hunch back of Notre Dame is also underrated

[@Arkenway]

Treasure Planet is Disney's most overrated underrated movie.

[@amandaschultz1338]

"Someone call IXII!" one of the best line ever written. Edit: To all you *haters* commenting that they are Roman numerals and not Greek, might I remind you that Hercules is the *Roman* version of the Greek hero Heracles?! Who was born to Zeus and a mortal woman Alcemene, NOT Hera, Zeus' wife, who is also his sister! This movie is a *Disney cartoon* mishmash of both Greek and Roman Mythological beings/ Deities, who may or may not have (let's face it probably not) actually lived. SO how about you allow me to have this tiny slice of happiness by remembering a funny line from one of my favourite Disney movies in peace! Be Well Citizens!

[@TheCashhawk]

Also one of my fave lines in film

[@peteosher8799]

Eccept that they are greek and its roman numerals

[@ronnie-sillyme0560]

I would say that line at any chance I could, even till this day. I am amazed at how many people never got that reference.

[@FunnCubes]

someone call incorrectly written 11 !!

[@rozempire2843]

But IXII = IX XI

[@slc679]

3:30 “One of the most important issues of our day” *Bottle of Corona stands menacingly in the background*

[@jje2913]

I have one tiny nitpick with this review, and that comes when Odysseus is mentioned. See, the Odyssey was not a quest for glory. It was one long trip home that got held up by traffic, car problems and a crap ton of gods getting ticked at Odysseus. And the reason he was away from home was because he was sort of forced to go fight in the Trojan War. I take umbrage with the idea that Odysseus did what he did for selfish reasons. Yes, he was arrogant and proud and a bit of a smart-ass, but his main goal was always just getting home so I can see my wife and family.

[@LindsayEllisVids]

well, yeah, but point is he wasn't doing it for the greater good. XD

[@jje2913]

+Chez Lindsay Point taken. I just took it more as an implication that the Odyssey had more in common with Jason and the Argonauts or the tale of King Arthur, rather than an ordinary(ish) man with ordinary goals pushed into not so ordinary circumstances. My apologies for taking it the wrong way. P.S. EEEEEEEEEEE you replied! Big fan.

[@ramjet94]

except that he kinda was doing it for the greater good because his castle was being overrun by a bunch of assholes that wanted to steal his property and rape his wife and daughters if he didn't get there fast enough. There was literally no sense of glory or selfishness in the Odyssey. temptation, destruction, and distractions yes, but Odysseus was able to overcome all of that because of his drive to save his family and home.

[@striatic]

This point was made pretty clear in the video. In the section mentioning Odysseus I was thinking the same things as J,J&E but then it is made pretty clear that the point is simply about a character not working for the greater good. One could make the argument that part of Odysseus' story is his working for the greater good .. of his crew and family. No version of the Odyssey that I've ever read or seen plays this up very much, but I think one could make a version where this is at the forefront and not have it be completely awkward.

[@Elementroar]

I think it's 'selfish' in the sense of the word, that it's a very personal motivation. It's a motivation that has universal themes - protect your family - but it doesn't really have anything to do with the universal good. I think this was what Lindsay meant in the overarching idea of a 'selfish goal'.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

You should do a video on Treasure Planet, it is incredibly underrated, has a pretty good history to it and is infamous for being deliberately sabotaged by Disney.

[@CouchSpud91]

And it's garnered one hell of a cult following. If Disney backed Treasure Planet like it did all of its other animated projects, it would have killed at the box office instead of being such a huge commercial flop.

[@CraftyMaelyss]

I agree, it really is worth a video, as the characters are written extremely well and have excellent chemistry and charm :)

[@robinboy135]

Just go and look for it, there is a video that goes over all this stuff.

[@kellythomas6347]

Breadsword

[@mangaanimefan3089]

You know, instead of doing reboots of Disney classics or the renaissance age; something I still can't understand because they were wonderful and they don't need to be done again. Why hasn't Disney done reboots of movies that didn't do well? Go back, see what went wrong, whether it was marketing or tone or storyline and do better this time! Make it the hit it should have been. And the first movies I think of that deserve a second chance are Treasure Planet, Atlantis: The Lost Empire, and The Black Cauldron. I'm sure there might be others but those are the ones I'd actually want to see. Just F.Y.I when I say reboot, I don't mean it has to be live-action or all CGI. Honestly, I miss Disney's animation. I'd like to see some of that again.

[@saff4997]

"I'm saving you student loans. Don't go to film school." As I sit here, watching this video essay to understand what it is so I can know what I'm doing for my assignment. As a film theory student. At university.

[@cyanmanta]

Blaine By your word choice, I'm assuming you're not American, so the problem won't be nearly as bad for you. In the US, college is four years rather than three and it costs way, waaaaaaay more without actually being significantly better quality education. Privatization of healthcare and education really sucks.

[@princesspattycakeswm]

Lucky.. it's my dream to go to film school. Enjoy it! I am betting you'll do great things and hope to see your name in some credits some time in the future!

[@princesspattycakeswm]

cyanmanta really? Because of his word choice? Yikes....

[@taylorclogston9224]

Lilly Peterson An American would probably say "college." A non-American would probably say "university."

[@Sancredo]

I love how the "Not being faithful" text is superimposed over Zeus with Hera. That joke IS faithful to the source material!

[@KassWinnie]

I hear you. I do. And even agree. But, to this day, that is one of my favorite Renaissance movies. I celebrate its anniversaries by watching it all over again, Herc is ma babe

[@Confucius_76]

Renaissance? 😁

[@KassWinnie]

@@Confucius_76 Disney's renaissance era, yes

[@ashapash]

Hercules introduced me to the himbo!

[@tijanamilenkovic3425]

@@ashapash Hercules is Goku of Disney because he is strong, brave and handsome yet also funny and comedic

[@mariak9086]

Don't get me wrong but I was always confused why Hercules was a red-head. I'm Greek and the only red-heads I've seen are tourists. But who knows maybe in this film Hera cheated Zeus with Thor.

[@abiireland2808]

I always thought it could be because gingers are made fun of for their hair and so they used this to emphasise the fact that Hercules was seen as an outcast. Also links the possibility he is related to Ariel who is ginger also

[@CanelaAguila]

A lot of homeric heroes like Menelaos and Odysseus were described as red/blonde headed, but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney was just trying to appeal to the golden jock American ideal

[@15acesplz15]

Yeah, might be because there's a Greek color word "xanthos" that means either red or blond, depending on the context/interpretation

[@lastupenda3049]

I always thought it was dark blonde.

[@TherSomethinBoutMary]

Canonically in Disney, Herc and the little mermaid (daughter of Poseidon) are cousins and both have red hair. Must run in the family

[@anniemz6887]

Any kind of animation + your analysis / criticism + long video = Divine way to pass time

[@heyitschevonne6322]

yyyyyaaaaaasssssss

[@oida10000]

ana malazonia

[@rachelhawkins596]

Can we all agree that the great mouse detective and treasure planet absolutely SLAPPED, underrated masterpieces honestly

[@FortuitousOwl]

Maybe it’s because I watched it like every day as a kid, but I LOVE Hercules! I also got into Greek mythology as a kid too which made it my first “love the stupid movie despite its flaws”

[@ameliagrace30]

SAME!! Even to this day, I still ADORE Greek Mythology, and even though this film is pretty dumb and has flaws, I love this movie too. I know a lot of people who love Greek mythology got into it because of Percy Jackson - but this was my introduction.

[@mikailb5031]

sammmeee

[@trickyjrmjrm5252]

Firmly believe this is second best Disney movie after Aladdin, had no idea it bombed

[@oliviadoyle3623]

My thoughts exactly! Even got a glow in the dark lightning blot LoL

[@wpcky7814]

Same. Catchy songs, good comedy with a theme, good character arcs, alright villain that pans out to a superboss villain ending which is sweet. One of my favorite Disney movies.

[@RanRayu]

when heracles/hercules was doing his 12th labour he found hades and asked permission to bring Cerberus to the surface, which hades agreed to if heracles could subdue the beast without using weapons. ok so this dude on a quest asked the god of the underworld permission to show his dog to the king and hades was like ''sure just dont hurt him and bring him back before dinner'', in almost any other story this wouldve resulted in a bloody battle that ends in the hero delivering the dog's heads to the king, i like the greek version better. also latinized form of the greek kerberos possibly meant "spotted" so hades the god of the underworld has a dog named spot... no matter how scary and monstrous a dog looks, if its name is spot im gonna pet it and give it belly rubs.

[@idontknowwhattochangethist9528]

Cerberus=good boy

[@plutarchvonpluto6439]

*Cerberus=three good bois

[@tijanamilenkovic3425]

@@idontknowwhattochangethist9528 Hercules is Goku of Disney and Aladdin is Naruto of Disney

[@onyxiris]

@@tijanamilenkovic3425 What a ridiculous comment

[@TenEnvelopes]

I agree with Lindsay that Hercules' prime motivation is "belonging" -- finding where he belongs. However, the character arc is not so broken as she makes out. No, Hercules does not need to learn that fame and fortune are hollow accomplishments, a la Aladdin. That's not his arc. Here's his arc: Hercules doesn't fit in. Why? Because his village is full of assholes. They ostracize him because he's "different." Even his parents don't really know what to do with him. So Herc leaves home, and pretty much everyone he meets along his journey (Zeus, Phil, the Thebans) agrees that the way to solve his problem (not belonging) is to become somebody he's not. A "hero": beefy, brave, macho, etc. So Herc becomes - outwardly - the person everybody wants him to be. Problem is, he still doesn't feel that sense of belonging. He doesn't feel it in Thebes, and he won't feel it in Olympus. Enter Meg. Meg is the one person who values Herc for who he is on the inside - who he's ALWAYS been. Kind, selfless, genuine, etc. Disappointingly, Lindsay did not include the clip from the end of the video that brings Herc's arc full-circle, but essentially, he is standing on the threshhold to Olympus and has to choose between immortality with his father or a mortal life with Meg. He says, "I wish to stay on Earth with her: I finally know where I belong." Hercules' arc is realizing that "belonging" isn't about being somebody he's not: it's about finding someone who values him for who he truly is. Like Meg says, Hercules has no weakness. He's not a flawed character. His mistake is one of naivete, not of bad character. A tragic flaw is not necessary for a strong story. Hercules' story is about learning to have faith in himself, and not compromising his values for shallow, superficial people. The story would have been stronger IMO if the superficial heroism had actually been enough to get Herc to Olympus, where he then realized he still didn't "belong." (Compare Zuko's arc in Avatar: TLA -- he finally goes home, his honor fully restored, and only then does he realize that his "want" is different from his "need.) For some reason, the metaphysics of Hercules' universe are wiser than Zeus, and Hercules is not permitted into Olympus until after he has already learned the lesson. But wevs. The main point is that Hercules arc is not "broken," it's just subtle. It's not one we see often, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work.

[@Doomfullord]

I was actually going to comment basically the same thing in about the same length, but you beat me by 3 weeks, however, I can't really agree more. "Well its a motivation given to him." And it shows in that he doesn't really feel for the motivation either. They didn't do a particularly good job of getting that across is more the problem than the motivation itself being that bad. That was the entire point of that part of the plot. It was an intentional misleading element, a risk, that wasn't actually brought up by her especially as that's a core part of her review.

[@cesverc]

Thank you! While this video makes interesting points, I feel that they aren't necessarily valid. Hercules story many not be as striking as other Disney's stories, the whole "motivation" may feel weak to us, but it's ultimately a story about a young man discovering his values and who he is as a person, and IMO it does its job pretty well.

[@weirdofromhalo]

I also feel that the song "Shooting Star" by Boyzone makes more sense than "Go the Distance," especially as there seems to be a nice couple call and response verses for Megara and Hercules. Because really, they need each other, and they bring out the best in each other.

[@chandrawagner4061]

TiPerihelion I love your idea of a zuko-mosque story line. You actually bring up a really good point about the story and a counter to lindsay I appreciate.

[@Traumglanz]

You Sir have a pretty good point, a point which I felt was really needed to be said.

[@katthunter6561]

I always hate the negativity for Treasure Planet. I freaking love that film, and can't understand why it didn't get more recognition

[@danielludwig647]

I love it too. I think there was just a general slump with audience fatigue for big budget animated films or something. It wasn’t the Disney renaissance of the 90s anymore. Atlantis came out the previous year and also did not do so well. And Treasure Planet and Titan A.E. were rival productions that BOTH turned out to be flops. Just a bad time to be putting these out, since by now these films have developed cult followings due to re-evaluation. (Though, I’ll be honest, Treasure Planet should’ve won that little rivalry. Titan AE is a *really* uneven movie that always leaves me unsatisfied.)

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

Watch Breadsword's video on it. It was actually a deliberate financial loss by the executives, because they wanted to sacrifice their last few hand drawn animated movies so they could have an excuse to switch to computer animation. Because-- this part isn't in the video, but it was because computer animators weren't unionized like hand drawing animators were, so they could pay computer animators way less for their work than hand drawn animators. It was a plan the execs had ever since Pixar proved you could use computer animation for movies and it wouldn't look terrible. They ruined the chances of their last few hand drawn animated movies on purpose so they could do this.

[@katthunter6561]

@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 that makes depressing sense...

[@orangeslash1667]

@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 The good news is that 2d animation is still a thing in Europe and Japan.

[@VestaBlackclaw]

Hades is the Lord of the Dead and the Underworld. How the hell did he not notice an incredibly powerful soul NOT entering his realm?

[@mckenzie.latham91]

cause millions of people arrive every second...

[@itzanthony2416]

Mckenzie .Latham is

[@clareann8912]

Because movie.

[@ghosturiel]

Did he kidnap her though? Maybe Mom just claimed it was a kidnapping when her daughter ran off with Olympus's bad boy/ Black sheep. I think the Dresden Novels have the absolute best interpretation of Hades thus far.

[@jonathanfitzharris4196]

I'm really sad you never mentioned the songs or how good the muses are

[@sethlong9118]

Damn you look good, I mean that, horsey want a Salt Lick.

[@YourMajesty143]

What the what? What's happening here, internet?

[@sethlong9118]

@@YourMajesty143 I think originally this dude had a profile picture with no shirt on or something like that, I figured the main reason for that was he wanted somebody to hit on him so I figured why not give him what he was asking for? Honestly I don't remember.

[@YourMajesty143]

@@sethlong9118 - Lol, I thought you were a thirsty female. I'm just now noticing your name. And that, along with your explanation, just makes this even better 🤣

[@nickv.3573]

@@sethlong9118 fine but "HORSEY WANT A SALT LICK"?!

[@the503creepout7]

"Megora deserves a better movie. Hercules deserves a better movie. Hades deserves a better movie. Phil deserves... It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia." - Nostalgic Woman

[@junaoneil1202]

My grandma loved Hercules so much that she did not like it when we watched Pocahontas because it meant we weren't watching Hercules.

[@sf1822]

Your grandma is an Absolute legend

[@DibIrken]

I watched this whole thing but I still think Hercules was a good movie.

[@hillary96renteria82]

Same. Its funny and lighthearted I don’t understand why she expects it to be 100% accurate to the myths. It’s meant to me a loosely based adaptation for kids

[@ritasmith6781]

hillary 96 renteria She totally stated that she didn’t care it wasn’t 100% accurate to the myth. The problem was more so related to the story structure and how it didn’t necessarily build a strong character arch for Hercules and how his character’s motivation weren’t really there.

[@kirbyofthestarsfan]

@@hillary96renteria82 She mentioned her not caring about it being accurate, what she was mostly pointing out is how the story and plot don't exactly do well connecting their characters (unlike most of the other disney films in that decade) So yeah, she even makes fun of people only pointing out being inaccurate as its only flaw

[@insertnamehere917]

hillary 96 renteria you def did not watch the whole vid if this is what you took away from her criticism lmao

[@RFcity712]

analyzing the craft of storytelling, no matter what medium, shouldn't take away from any one person's enjoyment that story

[@semperludens9241]

Hercules was one of the best Disney movies, together with Atlantis and Treasure Planet. They are all chaotic and random but hit marks no other Disney movie dares to hit, they are creative.

[@DisKorruptd]

I'm with you on Atlantis and Treasure planet, but Atlantis wasnt random, and herc was one of their worst imho

[@IamMissPronounced]

They were a child's dream because of how chaotic they are, but as an adult I have a harder time following these movies. They're still superb imo but my poor brain

[@Sandwhaler]

Concept art by Mike Mignola (Hellboy) on Atlantis so it's pretty 5/5.

[@littlefieryone2825]

@@DisKorruptd There's a lot of things that don't quite make sense in Atlantis (Milo, that's not how root dialects work). Yeah, it's a Disney film, but one that's rather serious about itself.

[@CharlieRaspin]

This was an enjoyable video, but you've also made me realize two specific things: 1) Hercules' stop-start tone is flawed, yes, but also ahead of its time. The MCU takes the exact same tonal approach, in many cases even apes the [Genre Film]+[Superhero Conceit] format, and is commonly cited as having the exact same problems as a result... but twenty years later, they're the only popular superhero movies still standing. 2) Hercules treats "(Super) Hero" as a celebrity job complete with endorsements etc, which is ultimately weighed down by the baggage of superstardom, because the core of heroism isn't action figures and public image, it's self-sacrifice and pushing past one's limits. It hit on the entire dynamic behind My Hero Academia almost two decades early.

[@sdsign4229]

A tone that goes up and down and starts and stops? My first thought: “THAT’S ANIME! Ridiculously hilarious jokes one moment; soul-crushing heartbreaks the next!"

[@xAutumnTwilightx]

I find the criticism of that "dual" tone in Disney movies interesting. Personally I kinda love the juxtaposition of serious and humorous, of artistic and fun. I don't really find it to be a flaw, like it's portrayed. It's just a... way to tell a story and to build a movie. Imo, it works for Hercules.

[@adrichapa3194]

Charlie Raspin I came back to this video after having first watched a while back, but I never thought about how Hercules' dual-tone really resembles MCU's current trend. Great point!

[@lampad4549]

Bro exactly

[@Seabreeze843]

That's a really interesting take! I agree that you can definitely have it both ways, and the Marvel movies are MASTERS of tone. However, Hercules still came out sloppy. I think it lacked that strong character arcs of Marvel films

[@timothymclean]

I'm going to take a shot at fixing as much of the movie by changing one bone: Have Hercules think that being a hero is about beating villains more than saving people. Then, his conflict could be one where he has to choose between saving people and working towards regaining his godhood, and saving Megara would be meaningful-he gives up his life and chance at immortality to do something he thought was unrelated to heroism. But in doing so, he becomes a True Hero, gains immortality, learns a lesson, etc etc.

[@theywalkinguptoyouand4060]

Everyone has a lame story they think is better. Save it

[@DAsObiQuiet]

Ignore the haters. You have a great idea and a great point! Huh...*thinks about it* You're so right. Just a couple of changes would fix almost everything...

[@Nanashi20]

@@catherinestickels2591 exactly, but i think the whole getting rich and applauded crap shouldve been more explored, like, make him THINK it is where he belonged, forgetting the whole godhood thing, then realized that it wasnt the case, the people only saw the hero as some object or so, and after the self sacrifice and such, earning his godhood, he realizes that where he belongs was where the people(or person, and goat) are, thus making the whole godhood thing more of an "its not about the end point, its about the journey" kinda deal where he realized the answer to his want. (kinda how aladins father realized the treasure thing at the end of their adventure)

[@CalebJMartin]

If you told everyone in the world they should keep any creative ideas to themselves we would have no art, no stories, and no games. Thankfully, we enjoy a little something called freedom of expression, so we don't have to live like people in Nazi Germany or North Korea. I think that would've been a great change! It wouldn't solve every problem with the movie, but it would certainly make for a more compelling conflict in the end.

[@minnumseerrund]

I like this. My main issue (as a bonified nerd) is that the movie doesnt relate to the mythology at all - namely, the 12 trials. Sure, there's the montage of Hercules defeating the hydra, the nemean lion, etc - I dont remember if he's actually shown cleaning the king of Augean's stables, but that would fit right in with Disney - but it doesn't really matter, hence the montage. What if Hercules actually ends up a bitter, disillusioned hero/celebrity who then has to come to terms with the fact that his original goal (Step 1: Become a hero, step 2: ?, step 3: Godhood) wasnt what he actually wanted? Sure, Aladdin's ultimate goal was to marry the Princess, but he goes through a whole process culminating in him realising that he has to be himself to reach his goal. Hercules doesnt. He is flat out told by his parents what being a true hero means, after the fact. He never really learns. Sure, Disney goes through the trope of him declining godhood to stay with his love, but that doesnt solve the actual conflict. Hercules wants to fit in, to be where he belongs. Does he actually 'belong' in the canon ending or is it just a happy ending because he found true love? IMO, the story of a celebrity who is only appreciated for his talent/status, unable to form any genuine relationships is far more interesting than the dude who wants to be a god realising that nah, he just needed a good woman by his side.

[@toadflaxflower]

"Where it turns onto a sorta beauty and the beast thing, and they kinda hate ea-" FANFICNOW

[@tamarbeker1701]

Okay but seriously, do you know where to find fanfics about this?

[@dolfuny]

When you're gay and Meg was the greatest character ever 😂

[@georgeparkins777]

Out of curiosity, do you like Rose Quartz?

[@kimifw58]

When you're pale and a comment is confusing.

[@silliussoddus1449]

Kimi FW it’s the song you can sing the song

[@admiralofcuteness]

When you're straight and she's still the greatest

[@greenyawgmoth]

I think Megara is the reason for my huge love for redheads.

[@ianhebert91]

"...lobs them into the sky and the plot explodes." *laughs in destroyed childhood*

[@cwonderland6259]

I saw him becoming a true hero as finding "where he belonged" (giving life for Meg proved it and let him stop worrying about where he belonged) and the reason the modern day fame/hero status was bad for him is because he thought it would make him feel he belonged in that role.

[@JPrescottQ]

Linsday, there is literally a whole scene between Herc and Zeus where Herc thinks he is on the straight shot to god town, and Zeus says flat out that being famous is not the same thing as being a true hero. They couldn't have been more explicit. Herc's idea of a hero when he was younger WAS fame and fortune. Remember? that whole song about people knowing your name....crowds cheering..going distances. Swing and a miss on that softball....

[@kingbeauregard]

Agreed. The narrator at the beginning even comes right out and asks the question, what makes a hero? That sets up the point of the film; couldn't be more explicit. The movie shows Hercules trying a number of things that DON'T make him a hero (superhuman strength, slaying monsters, fame, wealth), and none of that is enough. It's his willingness to risk himself, and even die, for others that makes him the hero. Now one might define heroes differently than that, and that's fine; but the movie certainly sets up the question and comes up with an answer, not just by showing us what makes a hero, but what does not. It doesn't hurt to remember the 90s too, when at least some people were conflating athletes and heroes. "Hercules" rejects that.

[@Ghost_Drive]

Interesting. So really, the conflict is not that he has the wrong idea on what it means to be a hero, but rather that he doesn't know what it means to be a hero and he has to discover it. In that case, his want is to become a hero the "easy" way and his need is to learn what it means to be a true hero; self-sacrifice. Interesting. I feel the movie could have been better then if he was constantly wondering what it meant to be a hero rather than guessing and running with it.

[@martinhall9497]

Jacob Prescott I took this whole video with a grain of salt, considering the amount of empty bottles in the back ground lmao.

[@tsubomikido8960]

While these elements are _there_ , the thing is, it's not really dwelled upon enough to make an impact. There's a few scenes where Herc is shown to have a misguided idea of being a hero, true. But the rest of the time, he's a perfectly decent guy. Even the scenes where he is misguided show him as just that: misguided. He comes off more as a confused puppy than a genuinely flawed dude, if that makes any sense. Compare this to, say, Aladdin. He's a likable guy, sure, but the movie doesn't shy away from the fact that he's a liar and has a shallow idea of what would make him valuable. The song Prince Ali is bombastic and spectacular, showing all of "Prince Ali's" wealth and greatness. Thing is, the Genie is meant to be helping Aladdin, and while he does compliment him on attributes like generosity in the song, it's obvious it's all a show to make Aladdin look good. Meanwhile, The lyrics in Zero to Hero show all of Herc's fame and wealth, which would be a good way to show that he's misguided...except the Muses compliment him as being "the nicest guy" and "not conceited". And unlike the Genie, the Muses are the narrators. And there's no indication that Herc was faking his niceness. Basically, while I get what the movie was _going for_ , I do think it was...confused. Even the song, "Go the Distance", which, yes, has Herc wanting crowds to cheer for him, is presented in a way that most audiences take as inspirational, rather than misguided. And who can blame them? It's presented in the same way as other "I want" songs, except far more hopeful than most at the reprise.

[@blacklite911]

Lyakar that’s very arguable because as a kid, I understood fully what they meant by what it takes to be a hero.

[@Nightwalker-zk6ce]

The best thing about Hercules is the soundtrack, 100%.

[@MrSnaztastic]

"BLESS MAH SOUL, HERC WAS ON A ROLL!"

[@uniquerebeljaney3639]

And Hades.

[@not_obsidian]

Little Luna I couldn’t stand the movie but I watched it twice for his ass

[@timothymclean]

Also the art style. @@uniquerebeljaney3639 Hades was weakened by how he didn't intersect with other elements the way characters are supposed to, but the art style fits the elements it's supposed to almost perfectly.

[@andyspendlove1019]

The soundtrack still isn't that great, when compared to the other Renaissance Disney movies

[@casper3105]

Maybe Id be too biased to say that But I think Treasure planet is not so bad as many critics call it, Personally i really loved all the mixed styles it had and they kinda went well with together, the CGI blended well with it's 2D Animation stlye, the relationship between Jim and John Silver is really great, The side characters are also very fun and you get the sense of an Adventure from its settings and enviorment (personaly i got), do i think it's perfect? of course not, but it has it's own style, a lot of passion and entertaining Characters, i also admire the film for trying and experimenting with the technology, design and characters, overall it's good.

[@devilovesdevil]

It's-a-me Sali I cant believe its even criticized so hard I love the movie so much its amazing, the art and style and the fact it's pirates in space and adventure it's really good specially dealing with a kid trying to find his place with a father figure in a pirate criminal. It was great very visually appealing. Treasure planet and Atlantis need more love.

[@unfabgirl]

Not to mention, it is also Disney's first crack at steampunk, a kind of misfit sub-sub-genre that still has trouble defining its borders at some points (this being when they made the movie, as steampunk has come a lot farther in the last few years.)

[@emmasjoblom]

Thank you. I love Treasure Planet. Not gonna apologize.

[@unfabgirl]

To each their own. None of us will declare it a perfect movie, but for some (myself included) it is enjoyable enough to overlook the worst of the flaws.

[@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa]

Dude, the critics LOVED Treasure Planet. Everyone just assumes it's bad because it was a financial flop, when the reality is it's one of the most well-executed animated Disney movies ever made, and was only a commercial failure due to a lackluster and under-funded advertising campaign combined with one of the worst box office release slots in history. If they'd pushed its release back a few months and thrown an extra bone to the advertising agency, it'd be an all=time classic with an incredibly well-made sequel. Instead, it's a lovingly-crafted passion project relegated to obscurity.

[@sithlordzach8418]

I think you missed a few key points about Hercules' motivations and actions. Hercules did want to find where he belonged, but in his quest to return to his family, he inadvertently made friends along the way. Friends that he was willing to sacrifice himself to protect and who would do the same for him. While his attempt to save Meg did end with him attaining his godhood, what was important was that he had found where he belonged and where that was was with those he loved. He'd gone beyond the selfish desire for being a hero, which Zeus had criticized him for, and had actually become a true hero. Hercules made the same mistakes Aladin did. Aladin thought fame and riches would make him happy and Hercules thought fighting monsters and saving people were what it meant to be a hero. They were both superficial. It harkens back to Matthew 6:2, which states that WHY we do something is more important than what we actually do. A good deed done for selfish reasons is not, in truth, good. Hercules didn't realize this and it was only after he stopped caring about being a hero and started acting selflessly that he finally attained what he sought.

[@Andres-wv6mj]

This guy gets it

[@TheCNRProject]

Yes to this.

[@TheSilverwing999]

That.. is a very good description. I salute you, sir.

[@bachpham6862]

An amazing point that I didn't realize! However the movie did not really go out of its way to explicitly state this, and the being a destined hero plot sort of got tangled up with sense of belonging.

[@mikemorro140]

@@bachpham6862 I mean Zeus actually does kind of say at the end what it means to be a true hero and even if it didn't they showed it more

[@slashingkatie7872]

Don't worry Kingdom Hearts won't let you forget about Hercules. It's been in just about every game.

[@Gamelover254]

I really hope that tradition ends after kh3 Lol.

[@Captain_Marvelous]

But, I want Hades to be in the games forever. :(

[@theinimitablejora522]

except Dream Drop Distance

[@acassiopeia6439]

I'm really quite excited about Olympia in KH3, if the trailer is anything to go by. Hades works so well in KH, I'd be disappointed if he wasn't around anymore. The rest of the Olympia stuff going I wouldn't be particularly upset by.

[@D-Havoc]

"in *just about* every game."

[@melissateodola1887]

"An entire canon of Bella Swans" made me laugh and I had to go back a few times until I stopped laughing.

[@marcellaarchambault161]

I feel attacked. I loved Hercules. Meg was my favorite heroine ever!! No guilt!

[@mollymcmurtrie8037]

I know I do love Megara to as character she was awesome

[@SelinaCat]

I don't understand how you could do the entire very thorough review and now mention the music ONCE! The music CARRIES the film! The goosebumps it gives the audience in the beginning, middle and end smooths over the cracks you mentioned. Out of all the meh Disney movies during the 2nd half of the 90s it's the ONLY one with songs (plural) that touch the Little Mermaid-Lion King crowd. Pocahontas only had 'Colors of the Wind' (I love the music but I'm talking outside commercial success). If anything the music is why despite everything you said being spot on Hercules is gonna do a lot better than it probably deserves legacy wise. I feel like it was the last gasping breathe of Disney music before it went into hibernation until Moana. Also, linking Gospel music to Greek Mythos through the use of a Greek Chorus is artistically genius and radically risky! It could've easily backfired as cultural appropriation! Not to mention using different colors for the Gods to blur the color lines? You did such a great analysis I just don't understand how you could've ignored such a GLARINGLY important element.

[@Natalie_11188]

SelinaCat the Muses are the best part of the film IMO.

[@JudeFox]

SelinaCat imo Hercules has the best song and score of any Disney film. “Go The Distance” is a paramount of music composition.

[@skycastrum5803]

While I agree that it was an excellent choice, and probably a risk, I highly doubt the risk was "cultural appropriation." That kinda of projects current values into the past.

[@PhoenixInLove]

I remember loving Hercules, but it's true that a large part of that love is from the music. Some of the very best of its age, for sure.

[@brifox]

I also get the feeling that the gospel/greek chorus part might be a reference to the choir in Little Shop of Horrors. Especially considering the soundtrack writers were the exact same two people.

[@acorn1014]

As much as I like loose cannon, I like the reviews much more. Love to see more of these.

[@stefanfilipovits9221]

Andrew Chambers me too. I love love love loose canon don't get me wrong but these reviews are really insightful and funny

[@msminmichigan]

Just like Doug her reviews are better when she dropped the "nostalgia chick" character

[@SavageGreywolf]

I too love these video essays. I suspect the reason we don't get more of them is because Lindsay seems to put quite a bit of work into them on the research side to the point that they almost seem to be dissertations on things otherwise considered pointless.

[@Salamon2]

Agreed! The character of the Nostalgia Chick was a limitation on Lindsay, and I'm glad she realized that and started doing her own thing.

[@maddyhoke3907]

I second that motion!

[@Thehouseoffail]

I’m rewatching is as background noise while I work on a project. The third time I heard it today, it finally occurred to me why she is eating so annoyingly. She is literally showing us what bad product placement and marketing schemes does in film. I feel dumb for never realizing this. Very clever Lindsay Ellis!

[@BenjiJames]

FUN FACT: In the original licensed Playstation game of the same name, there are 2 edits that were NOT in the official main movie but were restored for the video game during the cutscenes. Edit 1 - a moment in which one of the dancing girls lifts her leg straight up to her face, while seemingly sexually exclaiming "OW!" as the camera rapidly zooms into her joy-filled face. Edit 2 - during Meg's speech while she was dying. A sound effect was reinserted of Hercules throwing the pillar and hearing it crash and crumble. This indicated to the audience why Meg flinched right before she says "he promised i wouldn't get hurt". There has never been an explaination as to why these edits were removed from the official movie, but i think the first one is kind of obvious, while the second one always perplexed me as to why it's not in the movie, but instead only in the game - of which never really gained much attention until well after the consoles life-span had passed.

[@cannonfodder4000]

I cant find these cutscenes, know where i can find them? are there other differences?

[@BenjiJames]

@@cannonfodder4000 There are other minor differences like the ones mentioned above. But just like the ones mentioned above, they're exclusive to the PS1 game version only. Doubtful you'll find them all on KZbin due to Disney's strict copyright mentality. But the Zero To Hero changes can be found on the KZbin video called "Ps1 Hercules Intro" by a channel called Tristan Productions. Skip to 1:28 to see the leg lift i was talking about.

[@cannonfodder4000]

@@BenjiJames just saw it, OMG how is this not a more known thing lol i wonder if the other ps1 games had cut parts like that

[@revalation92]

I have to slightly disagree on your assessment of Hercules' motivational journey. It basicaly goes: (1) he's an outsider due to his godlike strength, which he doesn't understand; (2) he finds out he's adopted and that the gods likely know the answer to who his parents really are; (3) he finds out he's a god, but that he can't return to Olympus until he becomes a "true hero"; (4) he seeks out Phil, who Zeus claims is the greatest trainer of heroes in Greece; (5) Phil implants in Herc this misconception of what makes a "true hero" (fame, glory, wealth); (6) Herc succeeds in becoming Phil's idea of a "true hero" by attaining fame, glory and wealth, but becomes frustrated that his godhood hasn't been restored; (7) in the midst of all this, Herc falls in love with Meg, who is being used by Hades to create leverage so Hades can take over Olympus; (8) Meg's deception coupled with his underlying frustration at not attaining godhood yet cause Herc to become dejected and he goes off on his suicide mission against the Cyclops; (9) Meg sacrifices herself to save Herc, who suddenly realizes that she did actually love him all along; (10) remotivated, Herc defeats the Titans and saves Olympus, but now Hades has Meg; (11) Herc decides to sacrifice himself to save Meg, no longer caring about his own selfish goals/wants; (12) Herc finally attains "true hero" status because of this sacrifice, but learns that he doesn't need to be a god to "belong" now that he has Meg and Phil as his new surrogate family. In that sense, Hercules' moral point is a combination of "family/belonging is what you make of it" and "heroes aren't heroic simply because they're strong and beat up monsters/bad guys; they're heroes because they're willing to sacrifice themselves for the wellbeing of others/the greater good."

[@DanSutherland]

Thanks. Her analysis is really far off. Every time she talks about belonging, she never applies the context of what belonging means to Hercules. She also equates Hades motivation to "prophesy" but it's not prophesy, it's opportunity presented through prophesy. The prophesy tying together what the whole destiny, being a hero, and what belonging is and it being true but not in an expected way.

[@MiyuTheFallenAngel]

Gabriel P I think the moral of it was he had a clear want. “I want to know where I belong” but he was listening to all the advise everyone gave him. You belong here do this. Here is how you do that blanabla bla. In the end he had to listen to his own heart. He didn’t need any of that advise given. To answer his question “where do I belong” he just needed to realize he didn’t need to belong anywhere he only needed to find people who accept him for who he already was. The moral was listen to your heart and be yourself. You will always belong if you are just yourself. Now I will say the movie wasn’t very good at portraying that, cause he still “changed” before he met meg. And one could argue that he was still clumsy around her so she did get to see that part. So that’s why it leafy people confused cause there are too many points and too many things. Again I agree with this vid. I just feel like the reason wasn’t that the want and need didn’t match, but that there were too many wants and needs in one movie. Want: where do I belong Need: to just accept yourself Want: become widely accepted Need: become a hero Want: to be with my family Need: become a TRUE hero. It was very muddy but it had clear wants and needs. It just didn’t stick with one.

[@NanaseBarcelata]

Exactly, thank you, that's why a great movie and maybe wasn't so clear to the audience and that's why it's underrated, btw in Mexico did very well.

[@joebressan869]

I would like to thumbs this up a thousand more times.

[@monkiram]

cjdeist I completely agree. Through the whole video I was thinking basically what you wrote in the last paragraph (but you articulated it much better than I could have)

[@JamesEDonaldson]

Me: YES, one of the best Disney animated movies ever made! Vid: "Everyone said it was okay, I guess" :(

[@paydronian]

Same here, man. I love this movie. One of my favorites.

[@BluesClues007]

That's what i said too lol

[@revui5582]

i can't sit through the movie because i'm a mythology nerd and this movie has so much wrong with it that it makes me go insane. even the title is wrong, because the movie uses *greek* deities and hercules is his *roman* name. his greek name is heracles but because that wasn't the name of a disney movie nobody fuckin cares i guess i'm sure the movie isn't bad, i just get really annoyed when movies like hercules and that new wonder woman basically decide to take mythology and stitch together random fragments and fucking make up other things entirely tangent over

[@revui5582]

@@TheSunderingSea i really don't care why, it just kills my mythologist soul every time i see it. i don't know about the overall quality of the movie, i'm sure it's enjoyable i just can't stand it because i know too much about greek mythos

[@zlis4536]

@@revui5582 I'm a huge greek mythology nerd since literally kindergarten and I don't get the "OmG tHeY gOT So mANy thIngS wrOnG" people. It's not a documentary on greek mythology, you can all chill out and focus on the story and characters

[@gracedavis5936]

But Hunchback had a tone problem because it wanted to be a dark and mature film but it needed to be "family friendly"

[@msjkramey]

I love that movie tho. I'm sure there is a good fan edit that cuts out the gargoyles lol

[@benjamintillema3572]

24:19 Sadly the days of Disney avoiding the chosen one clique is over. In the span of a few months they've had two films prominently feature chosen one protagonists: Elsa with her avatar... thing and the live action Mulan with her... endless amounts of chi.

[@skibot9974]

Also Moana and they’ve been trying to make us think Rey was the chosen one

[@shanice3223]

Yea but in frozen elsa isnt really the star of the show its Anna her little sister the girl without powers that the story follows

[@chandrawagner4061]

Treasure planet is a beautiful movie with a great story and great character. It is a visual masterpiece. It is not forgettable. That is all

[@1992disney]

Amen!

[@colinvandenberg3446]

A possible explanation is that Muppet Treasure Island came out just six years prior, which got the treasure island story back into the public consciousness to the point that the fresh and imaginative parts of Treasure Planet were overshadowed by the fact that the public had seen the exact same story done with more memorable characters just a few years prior.

[@ZennXPaladin]

Except Ben Fuck Ben

[@CorbCorbin]

I always enjoyed it and Titan A.E. for some reason. Young Joseph Gordon Levitt as Jim Hawkins, was good casting, and it was fun.

[@chandrawagner4061]

CorbCorbin you enjoyed Titan A.E. because it's awesome! Great movie, always glad to hear when someone else liked it because I watched it all the time as a kid!

[@RobYTACC590]

I honestly always accepted Hercules' simple plot and "destiny" filled plot issues because it's supposed to be a Greek tragedy. Sure, it can be annoying but at least i know why.

[@stevenatkins5206]

I love Treasure Planet, so the fact they had go through all of this to work on it was worth it. Hercules is what I like to call Disney Popcorn Mixed Up fun, Great, but sometimes doesn't know what it wants to be, but the acting and plot still works.

[@PforPanthera]

I've never been a big fan of the movie but "Won't say I'm in love" is my all time favorite Disney song and Meg made me a lesbian >.>

[@Eric_1991]

Oh

[@amberbuttersz]

It’s okay. Meg turned me out too.

[@jman8904]

PforPanthera #ABK ditto

[@Htds9]

same

[@alisak4826]

Honestly me too

[@fangsabre]

For the record, Treasure Planet is fantastic, and much of the reason it flopped was because Disney sent it out to die with terrible marketing at a terrible time of year, with terrible competition

[@goolumf]

agreed, definitely one of my favorites, but the trailers were horrible and the marketing too

[@lanatherana157]

Hercules and Hades version of Beauty and the Beast....someone please do that!

[@YuukitheMighty1]

I'd pay money to see that.

[@fromolwyoming]

Hades was also his uncle...

[@jakebryant3445]

Hera is Zeus's wife and also his sister.

[@thasneakyninja1453]

Yup Hercules and Hades the ship I never knew I needed but yeah I would really wanna see that movie xD

[@irondragonmaiden]

Gay version of Hades and Persephone, right there!!! Someone has to do that!!!

[@annabelletolley8916]

This is so interesting to watch because on the one hand I'm like "those are all really valid criticisms" but on the other hand I'm like "but it's still one of my favorites and you can't beat the songs"

[@KevRyanCG]

"There hasn't been so much love in this room since Narcissus discovered himself"

[@agonygrant2643]

"don't go to film school... just watch KZbin videos" - Brilliant advice I desperately needed in 2012!

[@RichyArg]

the thing with the bargains, hades keeping his, and herc breaking his, is actually a thing about Greek mythology, a god HAS to keep up the bargains they make with mortals, it's in their nature and they have no power over it, how ever, a mortal doesn't, and since herc was a mortal when he made the bargain, he can freely break it

[@thekirkusmaximusful]

*Apologies for the long response; this is not intended as a rant.* While all of that is perfectly true, the problem is with the way it's presented in the movie. There's no buildup to it and it looks like Hercules winning off of a technicality - he didn't earn the victory in a dramatic sense. Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas uses the same plot element and it works much more effectively, because of how integral it is to not only the plot, but also the character arcs. Eris makes the first deal with Sinbad early on, which 1) establishes the rule that gods are bound to keep their bargain and 2) establishes Eris as a conniver who will exercise all her power to work around, BUT NOT BREAK, the rule. Thus when Sinbad "wins" the second deal at the end of the movie, it's much more satisfying because it pays off Eris' character that has been established with the first deal: she's powerful and conniving, but she can't cheat when Sinbad did in fact hold up his end of the bargain. Sinbad's victory at the end is also more meaningful because it also serves as the payoff of his own character arc. He is established to be greedy and self-serving, and the central conflict of the movie is the question of his loyalty to his friend and his capacity for honor and self sacrifice. When he returns to accept his execution, he fufills that character arc - or as Lindsey would put it, he fulfills his NEED for self-integrity against his WANT for riches and survival. The story "thing" of gods making deals is thus fully integrated into Sinbad's narrative, something that isn't executed nearly as well in Hercules.

[@samamies88]

1st) Herc is a hero in a disney movie.. hero that lied and doesn't keep promises (well.. promise to a bad guy.. but still) 2nd) Herc BECAME A GOD! He was mortal when he made the deal but he was GOD when he broke the deal. By your logic he should've kept his promise.

[@ingonyama70]

You're making me want to see Lindsay's review on this movie, and my reviewer boyfriend and I already did one of our own. :p

[@netaniarivera5952]

The thing you said about Meg got me thinking... what would the movie look like if Meg were the main character instead of Hercules?

[@cyanmanta]

Gentry Squidshire Most likely, a kid-friendly How Stella Got Her Groove Back. I mean, Meg is basically a 30-year-old woman with an unfortunate romantic history who picks up a buff 19-year-old guy looking to prove himself.

[@leovk5779]

It is I think a quality of the film that Hercules is not centered too much on the hero.

[@OfAngelsAndAnarchist]

It would be called ‘meg’ and follow a young woman who makes terrible life choices and has horrible luck She meets someone too stupid to care and luckily untouchable and finds the safety and security and fulfilled simple love she always craved It could be all right if people could respect simplicity

[@lordfawful1229]

There's probably a fanfiction like that

[@junjunjamore7735]

She'd be a Disney princess, like she was in the original myth.

[@kolspaz]

The sanest, most grounded voice upon the internet. Glad as always to see your iconic work. It puts my mind at ease.

[@ethanrummel7638]

10:32 actually, in ancient Greece, and more so in the following Hellenistic era, heroes were often proclaimed gods. By heroes, of course I mean kings, generals, and other prominent public figures, Alexander the Great being the most prominent. So Hercules need to prove himself on earth to attain godhood isn't really too far off. Also, ancient athletes both at the olympics and later at Roman gladiatorial games actually did product endorsement. There are vases, inscriptions, and graffiti that have been found that say things to the effect, "Gaius prefers the wine of Stultus" (joke there for all my latin speaking friends). None the less, great video.

[@terabera3390]

But the "Hero" hercules needed to be wasn't the same one as in the movie. If we used that version of "hero" Hercules attained it the moment he crushed the hydra.

[@ThexVaultxTech]

Ethan Rummel Alexander the great thought he was the son of a god

[@hannyboop]

To add to Hercules needing to prove his godhood, both Poseidon and Apollo loosing their godhood because they both worked against Zeus, if I am remembering correctly. So yeah, that was a real thing

[@bleach00101]

tera Bera well more so the moment he started doing advertisement but regardless of when I think that’s the point. Like there is the publicly held idea of what a hero is by the Greek people which is why Hercules tries to fit that image and then what is a “true” hero. I think what this comment is trying to point out is that they weren’t so far off when meshing our athletes with Greek hero’s as this video claims

[@alliesfrench]

Girl, I just discovered your channel and I’m damn impressed. Your deadpan humor is amazing.

[@fduranthesee]

Same.

[@MagnaOmerta]

"Hercules not Herakles" *Screams in Spartan

[@MagnaOmerta]

Total war and whisky.

[@yogsothoth7594]

*Laconian Doric.

[@dr.redacted_]

@@MagnaOmerta Ditto on the whiskey part

[@erikmatsson9822]

How do we now how it sounded 4000 years ago

[@RileyRivalle2]

+Erik Matsson You might want to check that number again.

[@SaveMeMoon]

I love how many comments there are that are still complaining about her eating 4 years later when she was obviously doing it to be annoying on purpose. Lindsay is a treasure

[@jaideay3003]

Makes me want to hurt myself

[@akmi1931]

She’s a treasure.... that we need an entire planet to hide her away on to protect her. And maybe only leave behind a cryptic map for anyone brave enough to follow to find her.

[@DrVein]

"Don't go to film school, watch internet videos."

[@TheOneLichemperor]

The issue is - "Watched internet videos" doesn't look good in the 'education' section of a CV. Not that I know anything. 10 years of full time work and a recent graduate with a first class degree and I still can't get hired, so my opinion must be worthless!

[@vianjelos]

TheOneLichemperor yea, but in film youre choosen based off your reel not so much your credntials..credentials are great, but if you can prove that you can do something even without having them you still have a shot. Probbaly wont get paid as much since the studio is taking a risk on you but still. The only issue comes in if your competing with someone who has the same skills as you and they do have film school in their resumes and you dont, you may lose out to them just because of that unless your work is better.

[@jkishhabi]

TheOneLichemperor it doesn't help that the competition for good, paying jobs is insane.

[@hectorcornejo1468]

a lot of these videos seem to imply the opposite...

[@vampirf1539]

It’s just a joke guys, chill

[@lauraschantz9058]

One comment about the pomegranate/Persephone thing, since you mention it: It's strongly implied that the pomegranate is a metaphor for something else. I mean, it's a leathery, womb-shaped fruit. Full of SEEDS. Our springtime goddess wasn't a virgin anymore, is what I'm saying.

[@restreven4455]

Yeah and even without the deep explanation, I still get it. You eat anything from the underworld and you belong to the person who fed you. But Hades felt bad for his sister (Demeter) and so he made a deal with Persephone that she could visit her every 6 months. Therefore, they have the changing of the seasons. Not that vague at all compared to other mythology stuff.

[@JediLadyMisty]

I heard that too; that she and Hades did the Horizontal Tango.

[@vulixirus]

Yeah, and trapping the people who eat food from the underwold trope is actually pretty common in mythology and epics, stories like mwindo and merlin come to mind.

[@TheOwlQueen]

Plus, the pomegranate was already tied to marriage, fertility, and consummation of marriage. And a wedding tradition on ancient Greece was the moving of the bride into her husband's home. She was tied to Hades' house by marriage. I mean, Hermes finds them on a bed in some translations.

[@georgemills-burrows7052]

Laura Schantz in Buddhist myth, a female demon that ate babies was taught by the Buddha to live off pomegranate seeds.

[@ericmabry1752]

The appearance of Scar's headdress on Hercules's head makes me once again call into question the Disney renaissance timeline

[@l.tc.5032]

I think the movie would have worked better if it starts with herc in his teen years he's no former god but a half God. Taking a few cues from the story of Perseus, he meets his sister Athena and she tells him about his birth father and in order to gain his true powers he has to complete the 12 labors. Then he embarks on his journey meets hebe (not megera but she can still be voiced by Susan Egan and have a similar design.) Hades can still be the antagonist maybe persephone can show up. Basically a standard hero's journey just a bit better. Edit: actually as much as Hades is a cool villain after studying him in Mythology class I can't in good faith make him the antagonist. He's actually one of the nicer gods in Greek mythology he even helped some heroes, such as including Hercules so making him the villain would be in poor taste. Maybe make the villian Kronos, it can be a whole "return of the ancient evil" trope. Have a prologue where Zeus defeates him but escapes to Italy over the years he gets his strength back and comes to rule the world again. The twelve labors all result in making Kronos weaker before ultimately defeating him.

[@athomassen3980]

That would have definitely worked better, I agree. I think they used the 'former god' thing because Herc being a demigod would mean that Zeus cheated on his wife, and because this is a Disney movie that would spark a whole 'think of the children' type movement.

[@l.tc.5032]

Anne Thomassen eh I think the kiddies can handle a little non traditional family half of them probably have one half sibling or a step parent, hell just say he was born before Zeus/Jupiter married Hera/Juno my version isn't accurate to the myth either like I said I stole for the story of Perseus with Athena telling him about his herritage so what's a little truth stretching about when Zeus married Hera.

[@athomassen3980]

That's actually a good solution, I hadn't thought of that. Now that you've said it that seems kind of obvious, haha

[@l.tc.5032]

Anne Thomassen well aside from that you got any ideas?

[@Tareltonlives]

That would be a much better movie

[@TheKingsPride]

My only problem with this video is when Lindsay pretends that Treasure Planet isn’t the perfect modern coming of age story. It even contains the perfect teen anthem that blends the ideal amounts of edgy and genuine emotion.

[@kilderok]

"The Great Mouse Detective"...GASP god THAT'S what I should have named my pet snake!!! Damn it!

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

What did you name them?

[@kilderok]

@@sardonicsardonyx359...Princess Sugarplum. :> She's a White-sided Rat Snake.

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

@@kilderok That name is super cute! It suits her well. It feels nice to get some wholesomeness when you sort out comments by new.

[@kilderok]

@@sardonicsardonyx359 Awww thanks! Yeah I'm personally shocked that a comment that realLy has nothing to do with the material on a old ass video has gotten as much praise. XD

[@lulugu3]

Remember that Basil was the name of the pet snake of Alex in A Clockwork Orange? Did Stanley Kubrick also travel through time and infiltrate the Disney universe?! The plot thickens...

[@RobGradyVO]

no lie, I fucking love Treasure Planet

[@darrengillespie1258]

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjjvP3sydLXAhXHD8AKHexABOQQyCkIKjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Db9sycdSkngA&usg=AOvVaw21Amz44Up3EQTYGh0HoT7k

[@nigelwestdickens6947]

I dont really get why the link is so long, but the video Darren posted basically sums it up

[@Gothwithoutacause]

Treasure planet was set up for failure and I'll never get over it because the use of deep canvas and combining so many differemt styles of animation to create it is amazing, not to mention how much it improves upon the original story.

[@catsend]

To be fair Odysseus was supposedly trying to get home by sea while cursed by Poseidon, Greek god of the sea. His odyssey was just supposed to get him home. While ping ponging around the Mediterranean and likely Aegean Seas to every single island he could find

[@Whitetomato27]

Honestly, I still love Hercules no matter how bad it was 😅

[@user-vi4xy1jw7e]

Whitetomato27 It wasn't bad though. WTF

[@Daltaidan]

We can all love movies even if they have flaws~

[@random_meta]

Was it bad though? Thats subjective

[@harriffanconshertini8804]

Dizzy Lizzy It did kind of ruin the metaphysics and meanings of the original legends

[@Chilla001]

You should make your own opinion on the movie. Just because someone says it's bad doesn't mean you should listen to them.

[@LordMichaelRahl]

Hercules is my favourite Disney movie. Yeah, I said it.

[@katytui3746]

Lindsay: Talks about insufferable 12 year olds complaining about something not being mythologically acurate. Me: Flashes back to every goddam time I tried to WATCH A MOVIE IN PEACE with my sister around.

[@AlbinoAxolotl1993]

Treasure Planet is a great cult classic along with Robinhood. It just had an unfortunate release time at a time where swashbuckling pirate flicks were a dead sub-genre.

[@Citrion02]

If you think that dead genres were the problem, maybe watch Lindsay's "Dead Genres Tell No Tales" video. It CAN sometimes be the problem, yes. But it might get you to look at things with a more critical lens. After all, it made me realize that even though I had fun watching the newest pirates movie, they aren't exactly well made movies, or anything that the people in them even want to make anymore, which made me feel pretty bad about enjoying these, since everyone so obviously wants to move on to other things.

[@devkergirl2025]

Plus bad marketing

[@devkergirl2025]

The trailer gave the entire plot away

[@alexvilla1443]

Yeah I sometimes think that maybe Treasure Planet was ahead of its time :0

[@tayh3645]

Treasure planet isn't really all that special..... though I will say that the biggest thing working against treasure planet is the way they drew the main character....... his eyes are too far apart.... and the bridge of his nose is shaded, like it's concave or something.... he looks so weird...... the only time he has a proper nose is from the side, and on the cover art.... But all the other characters look AMAZING, which I don't understand.... everyone else looks like what you'd expect from Disney, but the main character looks like an amateur deviantart anime character.

[@dutchmapping163]

The most frustrating thing this movie did for me, a mythology and history nerd, was how dirty they did the Titans. They were deeply flawed and monstrous characters sometimes, but not more so than the Olympian gods. Turning them into cartoonish elemental monsters was frustrating to even my stupid pre-teen brain