LINGUIST Reacts - Will Neopronouns Stick Around?

#neopronouns #react #nonbinary #linguistics
sources:
nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Gender_ne...
• BEST of Loic Subervill...
the article about gender neutral novelties in the German language:
www.politico.eu/article/debat...
intro: 00:00 - 02:55
neopronouns will probably not stick around: 02:55 - 04:12
past pronoun novelties that didn’t stick: 04:12 - 05:43
spreading an ideology: 05:43 - 06:34
latinx and what gender are tables: 06:34 - 08:37
gender neutral german: 08:37 - 10:59

[@LanaMarie]

That said, I would like to thank you all who left a like, a comment, or both on the »Reacting to the neopronouns of TikTok« video and others! Despite me singling out what I did here, an overwhelmingly large portion of your comments have been wonderful, positive and measured! Thank you! 💛

[@omerfidan892]

they are a fart in the wind. give them /they 5 years and they will be gone. i had a lot problems while learning english and i still have many. and some lunatics try to change the grammer now. by the way in turkish there are no gender specific talking in any way.İf you are not informed in like lady or mr in speach you cant understand the gender.

[@APOLLOPATRIOT]

No problem I like being myself 🗿

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

Unrelated comment: I've just stumbled across your neopronouns reactions and a completely unrelated question came to my mind: what do you think of the "regression" in written grammar if compared to some years ago? I mean the 'S used as plural, the THEY'RE/THER/THEIR conundrum, verbal tenses chronically wrong... Are pronouns the only important part of grammar now? 😏🙄

[@KizombaFusion]

In my language (Portuguese) as well as in ANY latin language (French, Italian, Spanish, Romanian), all things are either male or female. Asking to create gender neutral pronouns for any latin language would pretty much make everyone in these native languages not being able to speak the language anymore from the get go as that is embedded in every single sentence we speak. But hey, at least the table wouldn't be offended!

[@ccclll987]

Exactly. In italy they tried by replacing the last vowel of the word with either a * or a ə. In both cases what comes out is unreadable because the word is literally unfinished or it has a meaningless sound that by the way nobody knows what it is because it doesnt exist in italian. So you may occasionally see words written that way for example: tutti (=everyone, it's a male plural) written as tutt* or tuttə. I ve never heard anyone even trying to pronounce those alternatives, and in spoken language even woke people revert to the regular word.

[@ninjawizard3865]

​@ccclll987 Just silly, like what are we doing?

[@kitchfacepalm]

*masculine and feminine, not male and female.

[@joseroa5243]

/that's not precisely true, we gender our *words* we do not associate gender rules to words. That's the bigges issue, they are impliying that we (First lenguage spanish) use El-La but 9/10 just for phonetic purposes, we just use El and La as we use "el muchacho" because it's essenciatly easier to remember. Long ago lenguage was extremely hard and uberly explecionary, we had dozen words to describe simple thing and eventually we just encapsulate this in simple words to describe those smae subjects, we're reverting by adding dozen now "features" to words.

[@jcdenton7914]

The gender fascist are mostly white liberals who are hellbent on being called racist since that accusation is one of their main insults to condemn others. Point out that they are oppressing ingenious Latin Americans by imposing their western gender standards on them and you effectively painted them as the oppressor by their own marxist standards. And yes. The whole oppressor vs. oppressed absolutism comes from Marx conflict theory, but I would call them neo marxist since their way of applying Marx theories is very shallow and disregards class in favor for identity.

[@tbone6924]

will they stick around? I mean are they really a thing now? Other than the .00001% of the population that actually use them now, the answer is no. Why are we enabling these weirdos?

[@mrbattowel]

They are more meta language than anything else. Most usage is self-conscious and prescriptive. Almost no one uses them in the wild, but a lot of people talk about using them.

[@user-ck8kp8vb4l]

why should we not? what's the harm?

[@ulfsark78]

@@user-ck8kp8vb4l It's compelled speech. So F-U, that's why.

[@renthearchangel9479]

On the neopronouns issue, like you've said in the previous video, a lot of changes in language are natural(-sounding, or -writing wise) and it's best to do it if it is "convenient". For example, the entire writing system of Vietnam as a country was completely changed from Chinese characters and Nom characters (VN version of ideographic languages) into the "national language system". That is a very radical change, but it works because (1) the words and grammar structure stayed the same in spoken and written form and (2) it significantly simplifies the writing system into a logographic one, which is a lot easier to use. Some scholars have even argued that this simplification of the language significantly raised the literacy rate of the intelligentsia as well as intellectuals, who then fostered the nationalist movements against the intentions of the French, using it as a system of control. For a less drastic example, the Filipinos use "mamsir" in speech which is a shortening of "mam and sir" (typically used as "hello mam, hello sir" and changed into "hello mam/sir"). Mamsir by itself is "gender-neutral" and rolls off the tongue quite nicely and conveniently. It is a formal way of saying "hello you" basically. Compared to some of these examples, neopronouns don't go off as smooth to say/hear or even all that convenient. Neopronouns could work if it is convenient enough. What's more special about all of this is that both examples I used are from two entirely different contexts but both just "work": a literal colonial-imposition on an entire language with an entirely different writing style (and not just alphabet, because even some of the words and tendencies of the French language itself are still around in modern VN); and a natural process of simplifying in addressing normal day-to-day life. So in the end, neopronouns can stick and probably will stick, but the current ones are just stupid, inconvenient to use even for their own authors and unnecessary.

[@inTruthbyGrace]

this is an effort to dismantle knowledge entirely. All that can come of this is abject ignorance of meaning and thought.

[@jenswurm]

When I used to think of people who get upset if one fails to use the titles by which they want to be called even when talking about them without them around, the mental image used to be entitled royalty. Now it's a certain type of tiktoker.

[@cirewillen243]

Thank you, Lana, for bringing this up from a linguistic perspective. Even as a student of linguistics myself, I still never made the connection here, and yet I often wondered why it was so difficult to speak these new pronouns correctly. I HAVE wondered how all of this pronoun stuff would work in another language that had gendered nouns. I can't imagine having to work with some of these pronoun-pushing people in a a professional environment. Please continue your linguistic reaction series!

[@The_Mongoose]

I have witnessed one argument by someone saying their pronouns were cat/kit or something to "just draw a picture of a cat" in those cases.

[@Alogta]

​@@The_Mongoose nah broah here comes in kit /kat

[@drakerevel1768]

And what about languages that have verb conjugation by persons (with distinct gender differences)? What are people supposed to say in those cases? Change the entire language? And how the demented person is going to use first person verbs? Choose the feminine one or the masculine one.

[@twilightsparkle2764]

Wanna say my case as a Chinese. We have 3 pronounce for people, 他, 'Him'，她, 'Her'，它，'It'. When we try to express 'His/Her/its', we will add “的”, which equal to 'X's'. Here's the problem, it is impossible to express 'They/Them' in a way that satisfy THOSE PEOPLE, since '他们的（They/Them）' only have one usage in Chinese---refering to a bunch of people. If we wanna satisfy those people, we need to create new Hanzi(Pingyin for Kanji) and try to convincing everyone to accept them, which is so far impossible. I wonder if anyone have similar situation with my language. I heard that Spanish is heavily gendered, but I am not sure.

[@Lukas-Trnka]

@@The_Mongoose Omg, "just draw a picture of a cat" 😀 That reminds me of that comedy sketch "Fry and Laurie: What's Your Name Sir".

[@Lukas-Trnka]

There is one thing that people often don't seem to realize and that is: Personal pronouns are NOT a private thing. Personal pronouns are a communal thing. It is a tool of language. Therefore, a person cannot really demand others to use some special pronouns just based on some internal feelings. That would impede our ability to communicate to each other. Language must be usable in our daily life. And as for the table: "Stůl" is HE in Czech language. However, a chair (židle) is SHE, unlike in German where it is also HE. I remember it used to confuse me, when I started to learn the language.

[@onlylettersand0to9]

> Therefore, a person cannot really demand others to use some special pronouns just based on some internal feelings. I see you're not familiar with Asian languages. Those can have a complex systems of pronouns based on age, sex, and social status.. I had a Vietnamese professor who looked much younger than her actual age; she had several stories about how other people felt she wasn't using the correct pronouns.

[@user-df8hl4zx2l]

​@@onlylettersand0to9the languages you're mentioning has a complex system of honorífics, and they aren't about internal feelings, but it's about external aspects (especially in the old times, since clothing differentiated classes quite well) and how these relate to yourself. Sometimes it may be difficult to properly know one's age, such as was the case with your professor, however it's usually not that hard to compare in which ladder of the hierarchy you are in comparison to the other person. There is a push in Vietnamese to adopt the French pronouns (if I remember correctly) as a common non-hierarchical pronoun, but I'm not sure how widespread that is.

[@onlylettersand0to9]

@@user-df8hl4zx2l You can find lists of Vietnamese pronouns that include categories such as "close friends" and "normal friends". I'd put those in the "internal feelings" category.

[@friendshipwhiskey155]

​@@onlylettersand0to9it's still about community and external aspects. i doubt you can simply ask a random person to call you a "close friend" or "teacher" in Asian languages based on your desire alone whereas this is what's happening with neopronouns

[@Lukas-Trnka]

@@onlylettersand0to9 This practical aspect of language usage works even for Asian languages. I actually believe it has to work for any language anywhere, because if the rules are not sufficiently common and practical enough to use, then the language would not work, it couldn't be called a language at all. The things you are describing are complex commonly known socio-linguistic rules that people there follow. A "close friend" - yes being a friend is determined based on personal feeling, but the rules of what pronouns to use is determined based on common agreement of all speakers of that language, that means by its rules. So it is exactly as @user-df8hl4zx2l and @friendshipwhiskey155 said.

[@erichamilton3373]

It's also worth noting that this movement started in the Anglosphere. English is effectively a genderless language---unusual.among European languages, which usually mark for gender. In fact, the pronouns are marked for sex not gender. Therefore, English speakers tend not to grasp gender because they don't have it.

[@frandsfrydendal7408]

In Danish we actually have four genders: Masculine, feminine, a common gender (a bit like a gender halfway between the two) and a neuter (no gender at all). Masculine and feminine gender and pronouns are used for humans - and for animals you love. Most other animals are common gender - but people's own dog they often call "he" or "she" - otherwise it is a kind of "it", that English doesn't have. And so on... In standard Danish things are either common or neuter gender - with a couple of exeptions. A ship may be called "she" - with another exception, if they are war ships, they may be called "he". Tables are neuter - since you ask. I believe Old Norse had 3 genders like German - and some dialects in Denmark still have that, and not really a fully common gender. I would really appreciate if you as a linguist would make a CLEAR point out of discerning between sex, gender role, and gender. In America one reaction to the chaos of woke gender theory that actually claims numerous sexes (including a confusion of gender and sex) is to say that there are only two genders. Only two genders is just as wrong as the idea that there are are numerous sexes. In Denmark in women's liberation the 1970'es and onwards we had a useful distinction between sex (Danish - køn) - which was immediately understood as biological sex, and gender role ("kønsrolle") which was immediately understood as a social construct and a social pressure to conform to these gender roles and f.example dress accordingly. For use in grammatic context we also say "køn" (sex) in popular Danish - but language professionals sometimes use the term "genus" - which can of course has nothing biological to it - nor any social pressure for things to conform to whatever gender role a stupid person would assign to it. I think it would be very helpful if people like you - well versed in language, would clarify that there are (at least) three completely different levels of meaning that are verbalized with a more or less consistent polarity between "he" and "she": "Sex" - which is biological, and doesn't change. Gender role", which is a social construct that relates to sex but changes over time, and Genus - gender which is a grammatical phenomenon that observes that tables and chairs and other non-sexed things appear to have something that sounds or in writing a looks little like sex, but which shouldn't confuse an otherwise intelligent person. Maybe it would be interesting, if you would make a video that clarifies the number genders in different languages - I believe I have read, that there are languages that have no gender distinction at all (only one "gender") - and illustrate it with something from the answer to any intelligent child, who asks: "Where do the little babies come from?"

[@musicandfanart5787]

In Norwegian, the word "table" is actually neuter, meaning it does not have a gender classification as either male or female.

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

That sort of changes are pushed quite forcibly in Germany now. There are newspaper houses using patterns like Freund*innen, even public TV channels. People of a leftish persuation have started to use it in speaking, even in more traditional settings like church. Publishing houses in part push it and are themselves pushed to a degree by the EU. The societal left calls everyone nazi who criticizes it, and even the moderate right mostly prefers to just not discuss it. CNN, MSNBC and other channels, together with the younger half of the Democrats base all partly supporting shapes like latinx would be closer to the reality. This one will be hard to "just go away".

[@justarandomgirlvx3578]

As a fellow German, I believe the force that you are talking about is quite highly exaggerated in your comment as well as the Nazi accusations you are talking about. Sure, there are people like that and they try to pressure people, I won't deny this fact. However, it is a very loud minority and if people would actually step outside, touch some grass and talk to people in person they would see that there are barely people forcing anyone, even if they decided for themselves that they wanna make use of "gendering". I am more left and I don't conform to this change in language and nobody has ever shamed me for that 🤷‍♀️. While some implemented it into their everyday language the majority hasn’t and i personally don't bekieve this will stay for very long since there really is no way to standardise it properly, but it depends if society deems it as proper. As it stands now, the majority is not a fan.

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

@justarandomgirlvx3578 , I would like to share your hope that it's not as big as it looks. But take another good look at it: There are *public* TV channels implementing their *innens already. There's all sorts of companies who use it and feel/judge they are obliged to. Or they feel they can pander to this and start using it too. If you look into the TAZ, so many writers messing around with grammar. But also the Zeit or the Spiegel use it, at least when addressing a younger audience. I don't think, the "Nazikeule" is exaggerated here. Really, look at all those memes showing what some AfD dude did, connecting it with general gendering criticism at every turn. It's all one big bucket all sorts of people are thrown in. And it's not only a few lefties but whole shows like Heute-show, Böhmermann or what have you. I can't remember a case where gendering criticism wasn't linked to the far right mockingly, or at the very least to boomers who don't know better. Sure, whenever you make an actual poll, people mostly say they don't like it or don't care. Funnily enough this hasn't transpired to the web, where people publicly not liking it are "Sternchenphobiker" (when they are being nice).

[@westower7898]

Some subcultures and subgroups might keep them around as cultural slang, but for the most part neopronouns as they are used in the Anglephone cultures right now have no real practical daily usage. This will lean toward them being abandoned as a fad.

[@jonfeuerborn5859]

I thought you were much more direct in this video on the problems associated with neopronouns than in "Linguist reacts to neopronouns of TikTok". I really enjoyed the bit about the nonbinary portmanteau of aunt and uncle in German. Reminds me of the time my curiosity got the better of me and I looked into what 2S meant when I came across its use in conjunction with LGBTQ+. I knew I had ventured too far when I came across the unironic use of the term "indigiqueer" as a preferred substitute for two-spirit due to potential confusion with the latter term in the context of Western gender identities.

[@lisaroper421]

Yeah, clown world just got too confusing right there

[@katanafourzeronine]

No, they won't and they shouldn't. People are expecting us to change for them when they wouldn't do the same for us; hard pass.

[@MissaOftheDawn]

Right? Not to mention it's not much of an identity if it's so flimsy they need everyone else's validation 😅 I've been called sir or he by mistake on occasion and I super don't care. If they want to call themselves cupcake or whatever in their own time I don't care, but they shouldn't expect me or the rest of the world to say it too 😅

[@happygolucky9004]

Dear Lord I hope they leave soon. Maybe it will happen once this generation gets therapy and moves past their mental illnesses.

[@ninjawizard3865]

It's just really really sad is all.

[@baconsarny-geddon8298]

Even the "woke" cry-bullies who try to impose this nonsense on others, don't actually USE these "xe/xir", "salami-gender", "fartself" pronouns, in day to day life. (and anytime they even TRY to, they struggle with the ungrammatical mess, as much as anyone else). These pronouns ONLY exist to make demanding, attention-seeking Tiktoks and Xwitter bios, and to push people around, with ridiculous demands. It's what cringey pick-up artists from 2014 used to call "a shlt-test" (they didn't use pronouns; Just other random demands. But the idea was the same)- A way to get power over others, by imposing a demand that's IMPOSSIBLE to satisfy, which EVERYONE will fail; So now you can SELECTIVELY enforce it, to get what you want. So you know from the start that EVERYONE will botch your goofball "xim/xir" demands. But your friends, people you like, or just people you don't want anything from, they all get a pass, and you let them call you whatever pronouns, with no drama... But when you WANT power over someone, NOW you get super-duper "offended" and outraged, that you've been "mis-gendered", and use this (fake) "offence" as leverage, to guilt people into doing what you want. It's a very "mean girls" tactic, but it CAN be very effective. ...but on the plus side, the tactic has ZERO power, against someone who DOESN'T CARE if they "offended" someone, and who are open from the start that they WON'T TRY to use your made-up nonsense-pronouns; It relies on the assumption that you'll TRY to please them. These people only have the power that you ALLOW them to have, over you: If it's clear that you DON'T CARE about being accused of "transphobia", or "mis-gendering" or whatever goofball nonsense, their leverage instantly vanishes....

[@ttourmalinee]

@@MissaOftheDawn it's a matter of finding a comfortable way you'd like for people to refer to you. the reason they need validation is because they've been referred to as something they're not comfortable with their entire lives, as opposed to mistakenly on rare occasions. using someone's neopronoun is a way to show them you respect them and are willing to at least try to understand where they're coming from, which you are clearly not. besides, there's a difference between a xenopronoun (using a noun as a pronoun in the english language, such as the example you gave "cupcake") and a neopronoun (a pronoun that is used similarly to existing pronouns in the english language). neopronouns aren't even difficult to use.

[@Skepticallady]

My native language is Spanish and the table is: La mesa, feminine. The gender neutral pronouns are an Anglosaxon invention of bored college kids who need to say they are oppressed by something and that something is "language" woow first world problems, right? Also they want to import these ideas to other countries and if we say "hey we don't like them, it goes against how our language works" they call us bigots, but after the same students complain about the American government interfering in other countries, so ironic. I say this as a gay woman before someone tells me I'm homophobic or something similar.

[@Jane-ow7sr]

Weird how these are the same people who constantly bitch about colonizers huh

[@growingoaks]

I’ll gladly be called a transphobic, nonbinaryphobic (cant be afraid of something that doesnt exist) or whatever -phobic they wanna label me as if it means standing against this psychotic shit that bored college kids from the suburbs made. Go to the hood and tell me how many people there are freaking out about pronouns. I know im not a hateful person and thats enough for me to sleep soundly so they can call me a bigot, but using the definition of the word “bigot”, I will flip the script and explain why they are the bigots. Bigot: : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. Considering how 1) intolerant the cult is who lovesssss using the word “bigot” is, 2) how they will stick to their beliefs even when proved wrong by objective science and 3) how much hatred they spew, they fit the bill for what it *actually* means to be a bigot.

[@mnsor79]

In Italian we have two versions for the word table: Il tavolo (m) is just a piece of furniture. La tavola (f) is the table once it's set up for the meal

[@marylacken4016]

In Former german it was 'die Tafel' for a tabel that's set up for a meal.

[@Mareterra76]

In Italian, we have both a male (tavolo) and female table (tavola). The male one is generic, while the female one is a table being used for a meal with close people. If you say "sto a tavola ~ I'm at the female table", it probably means "I'm having lunch/dinner with my family."

[@w1cked001]

As a non native speaker myself, I’m all for you as a non native speaker telling the rest what to do!

[@JoeeyTheeKangaroo]

As a native speaker from England (Manchester) I wouldn't recommend listening to Americans when it comes to my language(At least don't try to educate yourself through TikTok, this is a platform where people try to make money and get clicks/views). The Americans have their own way of doing things which is why their language was based on Noah Websters dictionary rather than Johnsons. Americans right now are going through some form of cultural shift which is coming over to my country because we share the same language in regards to a lot of this frankly moronic LGBT pronoun nonsense but people don't want to challenge it because they don't want to seem hateful. It should be challenged because it is cultish behaviour for people with mental illnesses, i'm not calling someone 'it' however much they ask me to, that's a derogatory phrase and like Lana said I'd just feel odd saying 'it' when talking to or about a person. I'm assuming Lana is from Norway/Germany their English seems to be the best from non-native speakers & I find it funny that a non-native is teaching natives how to speak English. I am loving these videos, keep going Lana if you read this. (Nevermind she said she is from Slovenia, you have very good English Lana)

[@spencerburke]

Truth is truth, no matter who says it, no matter in which language.

[@KaiCluster]

You don't need to be a mathematician to know that 1+1=2. As spencerburke wrote - the truth is the truth and it doesn't matter who says it.

[@AmaNotaGogo]

I identify as a herd of tables, some are French, some are German and there is even a Slovenian table in the herd (you heard). 🤣🙃

[@nealgrimes4382]

I identify as a member of the Royal family my new pronoun is H.R.H and despite the fact i have no genetic relation to them from now on, you have to treat me as a Royal.

[@AmaNotaGogo]

@@nealgrimes4382 would that be a royal pain in the.......?

[@nealgrimes4382]

@@AmaNotaGogo That would be a Royal pain in the Arse your majesty.

[@collabdeflo5153]

U srpskom jeziku je sto (table) muškog roda - "Taj sto." (that table, he), ali stolica (chair) je ženskog roda - "Ta stolica." (that chair, she) Hvala ti za ovako dobar kanal, Lana! :D

[@Holy_Grapefruit]

Normally words get adopted by trends and popularity. But this whole new idea of pronouns, gender and everything surrounding it is done by force. Words like Rizz, troll etc all just came to be through trends, nothing forced.

[@thestralix]

Ha 2-2! In Polish table is masculine as well 😎 I'm German-Polish, so I'd like to comment on the German part as well. You might be surprised how much this insertion of * or : is used in nouns before suffixes that indicate gender and number nowadays. I'm talking parliamentary debates, news, newspapers etc. Phonologically, it is supposed to be pronounced with a glottal stop to indicate, and I quote, "the distance between genders" (I'm a linguist, too, I'm not even gonna comment on that one, lmao.. however, I do wonder whether theres a minimal pair for a non-distance morpheme.. jesus..). In addition to that, another thing which is done often (also official documents) is nominalising the present participle - 'der Student' (s.), 'die Studenten' (pl.) > now: from 'studierend' (pres.p.) > 'der/die Studierende' (s.), die 'Studierenden (pl.)'. At this point, I do not even get angry anymore because it's a circus anyway, but it's mind-boggling to me that they all think that a nominalised present participle is somehow less exclusive or less sexist than the generic plural form of the noun. Just let those mental gymnastics sink in for a minute. Cheers :D

[@Komet212]

I live in Germany and it's totally crazy. A friend of mine lives in the Netherlands and watched it from a distance. She thinks we've gone mad. She herself never felt left out by the so called generic masculine. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. In more and more states this kind of writing is banned for official offices. Even a newspaper who virtue signalled that it is a human right to write like that rowed back. Too many subscribers complained or ended their subscription. But there is still the double forms (like actors and actresses) which are quite accepted when used in official documents. There is still a big but since practically no one speaks like that in real life and it makes texts still harder to understand. My students understand a text significantly better if I it doesn't contain the redundant double forms. This "inclusive" way of writing can be quite excluding. The participles are quite special. I've seen it a lot of times that the generic masculine creeps back in the singular. They just don't seem to notice that "der Sprechende" isn't any better than "der Sprecher" according to their ideology.

[@spencerburke]

Most of the neo-pronoun nonsense, and other 'inclusive' pushes in English are based on ignorance of what 'gender' means in language. It means type or sort. Not really sex at all. Hence we have words like genre, generally. Nobody would think of them as related to sex. There is an overlap with sex, of course. The origin of gender is from Latin, genus, which means family, nation etc. Your tribe. Your sort. This link to family is probably why in many languages classify types of nouns as 'masculine' or 'feminine'. It's an easy way to group objects in the world and order it. But that's all that's happening linguistically. Certain words fall into different grouped patterns of declension, which sometimes conforms to sex, but most of the time doesn't have to. A lot of this ideological stupidity would disappear if linguists abandoned traditional nomenclature and just classified nouns and verbs, adjectives etc as type 1, 2, 3 ...

[@eehlohluell]

There was a social adaptation for gender to mean sex, and this seems to have risen from western concepts of decency. When I looked up the etymology of gender, the social reason gender became to mean sex was because apparently people wanted to differentiate sex (sexual intercourse) and sex (if the organism produces female or male gametes). From what I can tell, this was the use of the term gender, which I think it's still useful. People have been trying to reuse it, not to further improve communication, but to peddle ideological pursuit, so from what I read, the feminist movement onward had been trying to push the idea gender (at the time meaning the sex of people or people producing one gamete or the other) was socially constructed and not in regards to something useful/tangible, which is a complete misunderstanding of what gender was meant to clarify at best, and a willful/forceful misinterpretation to further a political/ideological point of view

[@spencerburke]

​@@eehlohluell I'm not sure it's even an ideology. Most of the ideas being peddled are simply delusions, based on zero evidence.

[@user-df8hl4zx2l]

Changing the nomenclature from Masculine and Feminine (in languages that only have the two) would be idiotic. They are called that way for a good reason, and it's way better to grasp their concepts like that. In comparison, the Bantu languages (which have noun classes) use a numeration system instead, and even when they are forced in grammar lessons, people will prefer to teach through what the classes actually are used for most of the time. Class 1 is for people (even though some bugs are in there as well), so they call people's class, class 2 is its plural, so people's plural class, and so on. The numeric system in Bantu is only useful when you want to study the Proto-Language and how its classes evolved in modern Bantu languages, other than that, it just overcomplicates matters. People learn through the act of linking abstract concepts to material ones that they can actually grasp. The difference between masculine and feminine is the most natural difference in the human race (being evident even in isolated tribes), and the fact that words for human males are in one class and the ones for females is in another makes it even easier and intuitive to associate masculinity and femininity to the two classes. And we shouldn't change our nomenclature just because a bunch of idiots from English speaking countries decided to be offended by it.

[@comradecid]

as a non-native multi-international resident of the united states, i find this lecture thought-provoking. as a progressive, i hope that any assertions of my american friends and allies, no matter how oblique, might always be understood as being borne of good intentions. however, as a brit shouldering the full spectrum of "historical consequence and repercussion", i cannot help but wonder: "are we missing something? is there perhaps some other dialogue that could be had?" in other words, "are we... the baddies?"

[@vidareggum6118]

Latinxs, latin extra small😂😂 Ahahahaha, hilarious take!

[@amberfur5750]

In Italian the table can be M and F. If it’s just a regular table it’s M but f it’s all set up with plates, glasses etc, ready to sit and eat, it’s F. “Come to the table” if M means that we need to talk but if it’s F it means that we must eat. We used to have neutral gender on top of F and M and the language, following the logic of making communication easier and quicker, got rid of it: when it was singular it became M but when plural it became F (one knee is M but two knees is s F). Now we only have M & F. So the Moon is F and the Sun is M. The Earth is F but Jupiter is M. The Person is F, but the animal is M and so long.

[@amberfur5750]

*on

[@henryblunt8503]

Table is masculine in Welsh - bwrdd. That means it's form doesn't change after the definite article "y bwrdd". While a feminine word like "cadair" for chair does change after the article "y gadair". Also in Welsh, "ei" means either "his" or "her" - but it isn't gender neutral, because the word it describes changes according to the gender of ei.. So "ei bwrdd" is her table but his table is "ei fwrdd". The opposite way to the article. Usually. Some people are trying to use neopronouns and gender neutrals, of course, but they're never really going to fit in.

[@HemiMG]

Clearly we get new tables when a nice German table meets a pretty Slovenian table.

[@NoBillsOfCrashDamage]

Tables are labelled as feminine in Spanish (La mesa). Gender neutral language is already being pushed here by replacing a/o with -e, but it only recently started. I remember @ was used in the past as a way to simplify things, especially among school students, but no one took it seriously and otherwise wrote normally. Something similar happened with X. That said, this woke craziness is very much secluded to an incredibly small group. My country doesn't pander to LGBT+, they are just accepted.

[@starrymoonlight]

Nice video! I totally agree with you. Keep up the good work!

[@annatreck614]

Am I the only one who learned that determiners like ’my’ and ’her’ aren't pronouns but possessive adjectives (’my book’, ’her book’) while ’mine’ and ’hers’ are possessive pronouns (’it's mine’, ’it's hers’)? I know that different grammar traditions have different nomenclature, but still...

[@MurasakiMonogatari]

That is correct.

[@chesterlestrange7725]

Its nice to see the the people finally saying enough is enough. Sadly too many ignored the warnings for too long, its going to take years for all this foolishness to die off.

[@tarabaumgarten3827]

Omg hi I was so taken aback when you said you’re from the same country as me, I didn’t see that coming at all

[@donnahanna10565]

OMG I am so happy that you make these videos. This one in particular is making me so happy because it makes common sense. It's so nice to see doses of reality on KZbin! I don't care if English is not your first language you respect it. I couldn't wait to hit the button when I saw this video by my screen. Don't listen to the hate! You are an educated intelligent young woman with critical thinking skills and your argument is based in reality. Bravo please keep going!

[@lisaroper421]

I also really love what you said about describing vs prescribing language. That is my same conclusion too. I adore non standard language, but you really do need to know standard stuff so that you can be formal if and when you need to.

[@anniedong8751]

It's an interesting topic. As a counterexample, the Chinese language did not have a feminine third person pronoun until early 1900s (except some regional variants). The feminine pronoun was invented during a social movement alongside the translation for the "it" pronoun. In fact the whole change was so that people could translate English literature into Chinese more appropriately. There were scholars who were against inventing new pronouns at the time, too, seeing it as a distortion to the language. But eventually it caught on through big-name authors adopting them and using them extensively. So it's not really black and white. I imagine neopronouns would catch on as long as you can get most people onboard with them.

[@jamesdoyle2769]

And all that feminine pronoun amounted was putting a woman zipang onto the general 3P pronoun, with no change to the pronunciation. So it's hard to say that it really enetered the language. And it seems ot have died out.

[@anniedong8751]

@@jamesdoyle2769 If we're speaking of its usage in Taiwan, yes most young people are using 他 for everyone these days. But I'm pretty sure standard Mainland Mandarin still uses 她 as the proper feminine pronoun

[@jamesdoyle2769]

Maybe, but when I studied Mandarin in the 70s, we used very Mainland textbooks (mid-Cultural Revolution) and 她 was not taught. I only learned about it as part of the may 4th Movement, something that was a historical footnote. Is it used on Taiwan?@@anniedong8751

[@themediawrangler]

I really enjoyed this. Thank you! 👍 I like to think of it as the normal passing of the lingo of a particular generation. There may be certain popular artifacts that stick around (e.g., 1920s "groovy", etc), but I think you are correct that the rest will quickly fade, hallelujah. Hopefully the idealogues won't succeed in dragging the process out with legislation.

[@nilofido411]

Il tavolo definitely male in Italian.... love this approach, although I have an Engineering background I have always been fascinated by languages, I even attended lectures of Glottology and Filology at Uni just for fun. Interesting topic would be how actually all the pronoun nonsense is actually totally irrelevant in Italian and French, not 100% sure in Spanish and Portuguese and other latin based languages, both Italian and French have a so called "polite" way of addressing others/people, generally referred as "formal" instead of informal/colloquial, in Italian it would be the English equivalent of addressing anyone as "it" and in French as "they". And just to throw a spanner in the works of "WOKE" linguistics what about the use of the the "N" word in latin based languages, specially Spanish, but then it would take to long to explain and actually have people understand the difference between the meaning of a word and what a word means.

[@reporeport]

your english really is fantastic. also great vid

[@therichisgood]

Great video. We need more people like you bringing logic and reason. And in the grammaticaly genderless language of Hungarian, table is 'asztal'.

[@sunflowerhillhomesteadaust7887]

Thank you for your sensible intelligent commentary 😊

[@1307]

as a triple minority myself (disabled, native american, and homosexual) I think it's a bit ridiculous that linguistic rules have to be rewritten to please a very small (but very loud) minority of people. I can say as a native English speaker myself that even using they/them to refer to singular person is very ungainly and leads to a lot of confusion over who is being referred to. As an example, one of my colleagues, a very sweet older lady, has a grandson that identifies as non-binary. She was telling me a story about him being in a dance troupe, and as the story went on it became more and more confusing over who she was talking about, the dance troupe or her grandson, since she tried to use they all the time. Another aspect that I would like to point out is that I have yet to hear a single person use neopronouns or they/them pronouns consistently. A he/she her/him always slips in, I just feel it's a very unnatural way of speaking.

[@wavewatcher_]

That’s a funny story 😂 These people are ignoring how absurd forcing pronouns on others is.

[@markolukic7824]

Croatian neighbour here - the table (stol) is male :)

[@CiaranDillaneOfficial]

Very interesting video, thanks!

[@sleepinggorilla]

Imagine Sting trying to tell his buddies to call him that? “F Off Gordon!”

[@APOLLOPATRIOT]

I identify as a Abrams Tank 🗿

[@mxdahliabelle]

Congratulations on living your truth. How does that play out in your day-to-day life?

[@APOLLOPATRIOT]

​@@mxdahliabellehow it plays out ? Peacefully invading middle east countries and I'm high on freedom fuel 🤣🗿 .

[@karolinaska6836]

I'm married to a Latino, first generation immigrant. None of my in laws use the term Latinx.

[@toonedin]

I feel you. I speak 3 Indic languages. Table is neuter in 2 of them but feminine in 1 which is also the national language of India. I theorise that to be so because of the heavy influence of Arabic and Persian - mediaeval invaders' languages.

[@maanvis81]

I always wondered how non-binary pronouns work in a multicultural workplace? We have freedom of employment in EU, and they have the same rights on the workfloor. But someone from finland only has as a gender neutral pronoun. hän on mukava ja hän on mukava = he is nice and he is nice. In hungarian they have ő, so ő kedves és ő is kedves. how will a non binary person even introduce themselves in finnish or hungarian? they'd just look at them weird :)

[@stevenbeck7282]

In Hebrew, I guess you can say a table is gender non-conforming because it is a masculine noun that uses the female conjugation in plural. True story. 😂

[@donatist59]

That table needs surgery.

[@nicolasskaric4768]

Hey Lana I just watched your other video on neo pronouns and I really enjoyed both videos! I speak Spanish and my understanding is you do not pronounce the x. Rather it is more for written language so the reader can impose whichever masculine or feminine vowel to the word. I was wondering your thought on its use in that way rather than a spoken. There is also the “e” in Spanish so instead of Latino or Latina you say latine when referring to a group of both men and women. Normally a group of women and men would be revered to as Latinos making the group masculine. I don’t just some food for thought

[@masonhancock5350]

The internet has been a global disaster.

[@marsrockfromspace5750]

Swedish in the last 20 years has made their version of thon ‘hen’ and its very popular now. I think thon didn’t make it because they already filled that role.

[@magnushmann]

As a Dane, “hen” has sounded equally ridiculous for all of those 20 years

[@meff841]

The way my native language is Cantonese and we don’t have gender pronouns periods. We just refer to everything as 佢 (keoi5) be they a man or a woman or a couch and I honestly don’t get the hype of having multiple?? It took me years to get he and she right (which I still mess up tbh), I feel like my brain is just not built to handle more.

[@binkybombastic6200]

I‘d like to add that most of the time there are enough other words to use when we have problems using one particular. An example in German: Formal (if you ask a stranger, an elderly person, your boss,…): Möchten Sie einen Tee? Informal (a friend, family, a child): Möchtest du einen Tee? In English, it would just be „Do you want a cup of tea?“, no matter who it is. Sometimes we struggle because we’re not sure if we should say Sie or Du to someone (what about the new boyfriend‘s grandma?). But there are always other ways to ask: Auch einen Tee? (A tea as well?) Wer möchte einen Tee? (Who wants a cup of tea?) So, if someone really doesn’t want to be called he/she/whatever or I am not sure if it’s a man or a woman - I will find ways to communicate without using any newly invented words!

[@carpballet]

Lordy, your stuff is good.

[@lisaroper421]

As an English speaker my table is definitely non gender conforming 😂

[@nekoneko3838]

That Greta Thumburg clip made me actually laugh. Also I think it was correct when you were talking about how this sort of thing simply doesn't work in other languages. A good example is Japanese which I have been learning for many years where pro-nouns like he/she are rarely used if ever. usually replaced just by saying the persons name. Other times the he/she is simple not there where it would be in an English sentence because it's implied.

[@TheKb117]

A gripe of mine is the "cis" term ther are insisting on normal biological persons. If ever I'd encounter one who do, a CIS might be needed after whatever reaction I might do.🤣

[@dontreadthisplease2416]

If you're not trans, you are cis. That's literally just reality. Grow up and get over it.

[@abhiramn474]

Not all languages use the Latin script. How are you going to have the "X".s in for example Hindi? Some langauges simply have demonstatives in place of thrid person prnouns. Sanskrit and Latin are good examples. Hey, I would even argue that the Spanish pronouns are really specific demonstratives themselves.

[@Devlinator61116]

I enjoyed listening to educated criticism of neopronouns. Most of what I hear boils down to "I hate neopronouns because I don't understand them."

[@gabojill19]

La mesa, femenine. It ends with "a".

[@hoshimoshy]

Hi, I really love you videos :D Fun and informative. I'm from Portugal and we say "A mesa" feminine table 💃

[@kosovircek]

0:21 *laughs in "Adam Bohorič"*

[@karolinaska6836]

The table in Polish is masculine. Feminine in Spanish.

[@cobusvanderlinde6871]

I don't think they will stick around. They only serve to make communication more difficult. Those who promote them will find themselves increasingly isolated as people will begin avoiding them to not have to deal with the neopronouns. As a consequence they will be unable to propogate neopronouns and steadily they will phase out and disappear.

[@mrbattowel]

I have seen countless pronouns in email signatures at work, not a single neo-pronoun.

[@hgrunenwald]

I hope no one is watching your videos and thinking “a non-native English-speaker is trying to dictate” how to speak the language. It’s SO REFRESHING to hear a person using English correctly, period. And it’s extremely satisfying to hear anyone point out the folly of trans-trenders, etc. trying to make up their own “pronouns” (when they don’t even know what pronouns are)!

[@jonoghue]

It's funny because non-native Spanish-speakers try to dictate how to speak the language with made-up words like latinx

[@erichamilton3373]

Das Tankel. I suppose. "When your aunt and uncle are also part gas station" (Tankstelle).

[@LanaMarie]

oh god 😂

[@JosephHaig]

In languages where you gender nouns do you also use the gendered pronouns for them? For example, with your table in Slovenian would you say you put things on "her" or "it"?

[@markolukic7824]

It depends but mostly yes. Table is masculine in my language and when I put something on it I say I put it on him.

[@tanjaborozan7298]

Yes, in Slovenian you put something on her.

[@vidareggum6118]

I have asked my table what gender it is, but it won’t answer! In Norwegian it’s called "et bord, bordet" (a table, the table) which is in "intetkjønn" (genderless/no-gender), but I don’t want to misgender it. Him. Her. Zim zam zum, simsalabimbamblam😂😂😂

[@KaiCluster]

Maybe it doesn't identify itself as a table. Don't be disrespectful! Tables have feelings too.

[@vidareggum6118]

@@KaiCluster I failed on more levels than I even knew😭 I hope tableself can forgive my ignorance🫠

[@joshuawayneyork]

Your English is so impeccable!

[@MinibossMakaque]

Arguing that English is a descriptive language while also trying to impose their own pronoun rules on everyone.

[@christopherkopperman8108]

Neopronouns add no information to the conversation. Sure the person insisting you use them thinks it does, but then they have to stop you and explain what their pronoun means etc, which goes against the whole point of a pronoun. I'm sure it has been said but let's recap what a pronoun is. It is a word to replace a noun or noun phrase. The purpose of doing so is to reduce cognitive strain. If you say "Mary said Mary was going to the store because Mary needed to pick up some salad for Mary's lunch" That would be confusing. Our minds are trying to create instances of every Mary you mentioned (Don't ask me why that is just how the mind works). Instead we say Mary once and then use a word to refer to Mary, thus instead of creating new instances of Mary we just point back to the Mary already established. That is the function of a pronoun (at least in English) and that is why pronouns are a closed class of word. They are meant to simplify language and so you can't keep adding more to the language. Any new pronouns must provide additional function. Why do we have gender at all then? Well, first of all gender is a linguistic thing, it was never meant to be used to talk about a person specifically. But now that we do, gendered language is useful because it allows us to refer to groups of people by an attribute that we can see and that matters. Human beings are dimorphic creatures and so while all other human attributes are rather widely distributed amongst a populace the vast majority of people can easily be determined to be male or female. Your internal feelings are not something that can be observed at all, let alone easily. Making those part of the language hinders communication and so will not last. I do think that they/them might really take off. It is already part of the language when referring to an unspecified individual. Such as "The mail carrier came by, they left a package." It is an individual, but we don't know exactly which individual so we refer to a member of a group with the plural pronoun. I can see wishing to not specify gender in the future that many people will be referred to by their group identity as opposed to their individual identity and they/them becoming the default.

[@paulbeardsley4095]

I agree with most of what you said. Regarding they/them, I was reading a fantasy novel set in a world in which people don’t decide their gender until around puberty. We follow the progress of a pair of twins, one of whom is leaving it unusually late to decide on gender. This is the main character. Throughout, “they” is used to refer to this twin. I found it so irritating and confusing having to keep reminding myself that it was one of the twins, not both, that I gave up.

[@cutekiller2693]

In my language (Ukrainian) a lot of things are masculine (it is the initial form for nouns and adjectives). Now we also have like feminitives for the proffesions and stuff like that. However, the word `human` is feminine ("людина" (закінчення "а" - позначає жіночий рід). So, yeah, the table is masculine in Ukrainian 😅

[@nikasrpcic1377]

I am your biggest fan Lana!!!! ❤❤

[@offshot1st]

chuckling at any idea of 'consistency' as an English person. didnt someone try to fix ours in the past? didnt go so well: though through weird, veil, believe lol

[@jasonneely2228]

In Norwegian, a table is >, which is neuter.

[@marmadukewinterbotham2599]

I'm more than happy for you to be 'prescriptive'. 😊

[@nickcharles1284]

They don't even have a present.

[@nmilutinovic]

Serbian: table ("sto") is masculine, chair ("stolica") feminine.

[@heteroerectus]

i’m freaking out because my table won’t tell me its pronouns!

[@ratamacue0320]

Gender ideology aside, I do think it would be useful for English to have a set of distinctly singular, gender/sex-unspecified, third person pronouns. They/etc is ambiguous (usually plural, whereas it could be always clearly plural if we had this), and "he/she" / etc is cumbersome. Alas, even if I'm right, evolution (of language) often produces suboptimal results.

[@Tekorekore]

My biggest issue with linguistics is the prescriptivism of descriptivism. Somehow students of linguistics are emerging with a ‘prescriptivism bad’ mindset. That makes sense if you are studying language and need to reserve judgement. But linguists, from what i am observing, are spreading the word that prescriptivism is bad beyond the domain of linguistics. Which puts the in the position if being prescriptivists themselves of descriptivism.

[@MurasakiMonogatari]

The main issue is that a sustainable civilisation requires a standardised language, which invariably means prescriptivism. Descriptivism is totally incompatible with standardisation or teaching language in a public school system. If anything goes, then what even counts as an educated, proficient speaker? If any form/meaning is acceptable, then how are concepts precisely described by laws and understood equally by everyone? Full-on descriptivism can only sensibly be practised by the likes of anthropologists and language researchers, but you certainly can't build a society on it.

[@fredke-d]

I don't understand the ideology part. Bengali and a number of other languages don't have gendered pronouns at all (Each third-person pronoun in Bengali is the equivalent of he, she, and it in English, but there are different pronouns reflecting the degree of proximity: A person at a neutral distance, this person over here (close), or that person over there (distant), but all are gender-neutral). Does this mean that those languages have an ideological commitment to the idea that there is only one gender, or that there are only three kinds of proximity (close, distant, and neutral)? Bengali still does have gendered nouns for man/woman, boy/girl, father/mother, etc. But there is no gender at all in its pronouns. How do you interpret the ideological part?

[@christopherkopperman8108]

Not sure how it works in other languages. The ideology of pronouns is because what the person is really saying is that they want you to describe them in a certain way. But if someone tells you that you must call them brave and handsome young man you'd give them the middle finger. A pronoun doesn't really describe a person, it refers to the words that describe a person. By calling them personal pronouns there is these mental gymnastics going on where you aren't asking someone to describe you a certain way, you are assuming that you belong to a group and demanding they refer to you by words that refer to said group. It isn't just neopronouns but transgenders insisting on pronouns, non-binary insisting on they/them. It is thinly veiled control of language in an attempt to create reality. And it is that. Because if we really perceived what they insist we do, we'd already use those words.

[@fredke-d]

@@christopherkopperman8108 So if a man wants me to use "he/him" pronouns, that's ideological, and I should feel free to call the man "she" or "it" if I want to, because the man has no business telling anyone else how to describe her?

[@christopherkopperman8108]

@@fredke-d Do you see a woman? If you do then referring to her by she is correct. If not, then you are being an asshole pretending to make a point. It is about describing the world honestly, not ideologically. The same is true for conservatives that see a transwoman, knows that the person is presenting themselves as a woman, calls the person by name (such as Janet) and still says he. That person is just being an asshole. Regardless of what a person really is, how you are referring to them is what pronoun you use.

[@anonymussicarius8899]

We must stop teaching latin, for it is deeply ingraned in the patriarchy! XD HeiligeMariaMutterGottes!!!b Tankel?!?!?! Bin ich froh, dass ich bisher noch keinem begegnet bin, der dieses Parcel spricht! XD

[@ErikCarlosToren]

You mention that someone brought up latin@. That existed as long as thon 😁. Latin@ was a thing back when I was in undergrad back in the mid 1990s. It was a thing only among those in academia or active in politics. Once I graduated I never saw anyone use it seriously. Latin@ probably ended around early 2000s. Even the folks that use Latinx either don’t remember this usage or have moved on to Latinx. Another format is Latine. Rather than Latino or Latina folks in academia will insert an e to make it gender neutral. So. Latine.

[@paulbeardsley4095]

Is latine pronounced la-teen or la-teen-uh?

[@illuminahde]

It's Klingon. A fad for dorks.

[@MichalBazan]

In Polish table is masculine (ten stół) but the chair is neutral (to krzesło)

[@vytah]

We already have a word that can refer to a person and which we need to ask that person for. It's called a name. If you cannot use a pronoun to replace a name, because it's essentially another unique name for an individual person, then one of the main uses of pronouns is gone and therefore why use any pronouns referring to people at all?

[@Porphyrios9856]

As a native English speaker, no, they have no stay in language. It is akin to trying to force everyone into learning Esperanto. Much like Esperanto, it is only used by a few because it has no culture to keep it alive. It is artificial. But unlike Neo-Pronouns, at least Esperanto is useful and actually has a purpose.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

I identify as "the most sexy and alluring man in the world to whom no woman can say 'no'."

[@aaronperalta3560]

1:55 At that moment my writer instincts kicked in and told me that is utter bull crap.

[@abhiramn474]

Unrelated, sometimes nouns do become pronouns. The Hindi for You (respectful form) is Aap, which is from Sanskrit Atman meaning Self. Fun fact, in Sanskrit Atman refers to a "soul" but is also used as a reflexive pronoun. Even more funny is that Atman is related to the word Atmosphere and has nothing to do with pronouns. Likewise, the polite form of you in Sanskrit is bhavan which is the present participle of the verb "to be". In Spanish, Nosotros y Vosotros are lietarlly "We + others" and "You +others" because at one point in Spanish, Nos and Vos were singular pronouns that was reserved for high class people. I guess non pronouns can become pronouns, but in a different respect.

[@bigshrekhorner]

@@helsby1797 No, actually. The "soul" meaning of the indoeuropean root developed only in Sanskrit. The original Indoeuropean word had the meaning of "to blow", in the sense of wind. So, it is the breathing meaning that came first, not the soul meaning.

[@seanduggan3453]

This highlights the oddities of languages more than anything else. The propsed use of subjective gender neutral and identification specific descriptors is not helpful in aiding communication and understanding. There are similarities with the use of emojis and abbreviations here - does LOL mean laugh out loud or is it outdated?

[@raquelpardal5343]

Portuguese. Table is feminine. "A mesa". Where "a" is the article and "mesa" (table) is the noun. In portuguese, the final vowel usually determines the gender (with LOTS of exceptions), being a for feminine and o for masculine, and same goes to the articles.

[@mxvega1097]

Also a sociolinguist. The problem with the obsessive focus on pronouns, by activists, is that they think a) it is worthwhile b) will work and c) has no negative repercussions, like being punched in the face. Language does not change minds. I'll repeat that: changing language forms, and faddish neopronouns, does not change minds and attitudes. It can't. The river doesn't flow that way. Cognition precedes expression. In all languages. Maybe the activists could all learn Mandarin and satisfy themselves that every him/her/it is "ta", and all thems a "tamen". And a doctor is ... daifux. Neopronouns will be looked back on as a whimsical cultural freak-out. About as durable as Esperanto.

[@twilightsparkle2764]

Thanks for mentions the example of Mandarin! Xie Xie! And...'Doctor' is DAIFU XD

[@mxvega1097]

@@twilightsparkle2764 I did do some Shanghainese linguistics at Fudan but confess I was extrapolating with Daifux!

[@someoneelse318]

Dear Lana Marie, greatings from Gemany. I don't have anything new to contribute to the table issue, but there is something about the sofa (which I'd consider being a close friend of the table in many cases). Here it comes: In Germany the Sofa in general is neutral - das Sofa, but - in the dialect of Swabia, at least in the part of Swabia where I lived as a child, the sofa is male, hence - der Sofa. This sounds very wrong to the rest of Germany. Have a nice day.

[@single_spaghetto]

Pole here! In Polish, tables are feminie (take that, Germany!) I was watching the video and noticed that on the 'non-binary-wiki' they have an article about gender neutral language in Poland, so I decided to check it out. Now, I way always curious about how a person would form a neutral (aside from the widely used 'to' - 'it') and have come up with a funny sounding 'onu/jenu'. I've been making fun of it ever since To my surprise, they actually have it listed on the wiki

[@vytah]

Tables are masculine in Polish.

[@RoelienReinders]

In Dutch ‘tafel’ can be both m or f. My guess is that it’s male in the northern provinces, and female in the southern provinces and flemish Belgium - which might also explain the difference between France and Germany 🤔

[@cordulam]

"Tafel" (a long table) in german is also female.