Final Crisis, Part 1 - Atop the Fourth Wall

You can check out Rikdad's essay on Final Crisis here: rikdad.blogspot...
Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this episode, Linkara finishes Event Comics Month 2 with Final Crisis!
atopthefourthwa...
Originally released March 27th, 2018.
ORIGINAL INFO: Anti-life justifies my confusion.

[@nessesaryschoolthing]

"Never fight a land war in Asia" "Unless you're... wait for it... the Mongols!"

[@pokemaster123ism]

“Make sure your invasion of Russia doesn’t last into winter”

[@bthsr7113]

@@pokemaster123ism Especially not if they're combining defense in depth with scorched earth retreats and wave after wave of fodder.

[@mightygregdoge]

Mongols: We're the Exception!

[@Vesperitis]

Not enough Crash Course and John Green fans here.

[@jfdrac]

@Darth_ Madara Except well that rule actually is a fail lol

[@gilgamesh5450]

It really teared me up with Martian Manhunters funeral. But what truly broke me however was when Batman placed that Oreo on his coffin.

[@GabyGeorge1996]

Gilgamesh what's the deal with the oreo?

[@gilgamesh5450]

J'onn has an addiction to them.

[@wdcain1]

It was a joke from Kieth Griffon's long run on _JLA_ where he wrote the book as a comedy. Oreos were like cocaine for J'ohnn. He would gladly put up with all your nonsense and do whatever you want if you waved a pack of those cookies in his face. After Griffon left the book, that was one of the things that other writers kept as part of J'ohnn's character.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

i would have loved to see J'onn temporally or full revived with superman's wish at the end of this crossover. and him telling superman "batman is not dead"

[@jakeproven5931]

What ruined it for me was just how they killed Martin manhunter it was tasteless

[@andrewrabon]

The whole "Should we do something?" "We should DO something!" bit is probably my favorite AT4W running gag.

[@meowistforlife]

We Should do something

[@FixTheWi-Fi]

Should we do something?

[@meowistforlife]

@@FixTheWi-Fi we should do something!

[@smjaiteh]

Me: I wonder why this episode is going to be so long, even for a Crisis one? Linkara: Many people consider this to be weird and very confusing. Me: Why would this mainstream event comic be so incomprehensible? Linkara: Grant Morrison... Me: *That makes sense...*

[@wdcain1]

I love Grant but sometimes... yeah, he gets too far up his own ass with meta, theme, and lore that the story totally fails. _Final Crisis_ and Marvel's _Marvel Boy_ suffer horribly from this. _Multiversity_ is hit & miss. Some parts are really enjoyable like the Captain Marvel and Charlton Heroes tales while others completely failed.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

i loved Multiversity, but grant morrions' ideas during X-Men (like magneto being a junkie and forgetting all his character developed because the likable magneto is the one see in movies; also he wanted to replace rogue for pretty much "a rigue based on the on from x men evolution") are hit or miss (he could have used the joseph clone saying casandra nova got himm, made him a junkie, and developed secondary mutant powers to imitate powers)

[@wdcain1]

I wish Morrison got his hands on Rogue instead of Claremont. I love Evo Rogue and I didn't like how she was handled in Chris' book by becoming a tattooed up biker/ninja. Plus Grant's Magneto being a Nazi-like maniac ticked me off to no end having his own ovens. Marvel couldn't have retconned that fast enough in my opinion. What bothers me is I get what Morrison was thinking. He loves the old lore stuff but he ignores all the character developement. Paul Jenkins did the same thing with Gwen Stacey in _Sins of the Past._

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

The problem is Grant wanted to KILL ROGUE, and replace her, not just show another development of her. Also Joseph would have satisfied Grant's need of the character. also, sins of the past would have been a way better story if the stacy twins had been what superboy is in the young justice cartoon (a clone created using the hero/good person's DNA plus the villains), and at the same time would have been Norman's Fuck you to the late gwen stacy and peter.

[@wdcain1]

I never heard that about Rogue. The story I head said Chris Claremont, Grant Morrison, and Chuck Austin all got in a fight over which one could use Rogue for their book. Finally the editors just had enough and gave her to Chris who completely overhauled her. I'm one of the few people online who's cool with Gwen having kids with Norman though I totally understand the blowback. My first exposure to Gwen was reading reprints of the Lee/Romita issues where she was a pretty nasty and mean spirited girl who would demean Peter for coming from a poor family. I totally agree with the evil Joseph clone being the villain in _Planet X._ It would work too since in that story, no one but Toad and Esma thinks he's really Magneto since he acts so different. Just say John Sublime found Joseph's corpse and mucked around with it to make him evil.

[@yuzzem64]

From an in-Universe perspective Anthro is incredibly important since he is the first modern human of whom all of humanity in the DCU are descended and him meeting Kamandi who is apparently the last human and kind of showing the similarities between the two kind of put the full Legacy of humanity in perspective although I definitely wish more was done with it.

[@bluespaceman7937]

Interesting observation.

[@Peringon]

Grant Morrison actually believes the New Gods to be Gods... in a way. In his book "Super Gods" (which is really good) he explains that he sees every single character in fiction as a sort of God (particularly literary ones) because, much in the same way that greeks did, they reflect aspects of day to day life and have adventures that reveal simple truths. It's a fun little idea and frankly gives a lot of sense to Final Crisis.

[@cognitivedissonance8406]

Jude Quinn AKA why I can’t stand Morrison

[@daelen.cclark]

I honestly think he works best when there’s people to reign him in.

[@paulakroy2635]

Cognitive Dissonance Jack Kirby came up with that idea

[@megaultradamn]

A God is supposed to reveal more than a simple truth. Otherwise, we could a be gods, which isn't possible since we can't create a living, breathing universe from nothing. We can imagine new universes, sure, with pencils, typewriters, and computers, but that's all we can do.

[@darthsonic4135]

Yeah… Except the New Gods have always been semi-divine. This is not some Grant Morrison invention. He simply took what was already there and ran with it to the absolute logical extreme.

[@carlrood4457]

Sometimes it feels that Grant Morrison is two people. On the one hand, he rose to promise with weird, meta-textual stuff like Animal Man and Doom Patrol. However, he then turns around and writes some great, fairly straight forward superhero stuff like JLA or All Star Superman. In those he shows a real love and appreciation of these long running characters and an understanding of why they are great. Here it's like the two Morrison's merged (Crisis on Infinite Morrisons) and tried to combine those two angles and it didn't work. The Justice League meeting really made it sound like everyone had barely heard of the New Gods, not just the newer heroes. Superman references "Guardian Archives" describing Orion and the others as New Gods, not any personal experience. I will note one thing, The New Gods are supposed to be Gods, not just super powered aliens. Their backstory is essentially Ragnarok happened and Apokolips and New Genesis rose up in place of the "Old Gods". There was even an early post-Crisis Wonder Woman/Superman teamup that pretty much acknowledged they were on par with the Olympians.

[@juhaniaho6698]

Carl Rood Crisis on infinite Morrisons, you say? I can only imagine Anti-Morrison!

[@Cy-Kill_01]

Juhani Aho you mean Alan Moore?

[@JaelinBezel]

Seriously though, who gives a fuck about Animal Man? And why are his books available on the DC app but not Princess Amethyst's? I'm still mad about that. My town has no place to buy physical comics, so digital copies and what little is available at my local library is all I've got.

[@Ale_LSH]

Cody Hines Bruh Morrison’s Animal Man run is still one of the best comic book runs of all time to this day, meanwhile while I feel most people haven’t really heard all that much about Princess Amethyst, it makes sense to have more Animal Man.

[@vaiyt]

The Apokolips peeps make a lot of sense as gods of modern evil. Heck, a few of them, like Glorious Godfrey and Virman Vundabar, are more relevant now than they ever were when created!

[@Longshanks1690]

"We should do something" is one of my all time favourite jokes, and I cannot thank you enough for coming up with it. 😂

[@gameygeemer4142]

Should we do something?

[@the4thwallkid132]

King Edward "Longshanks" I, Hammer of the Scots, Lord of Wales and King of England No problem! Also we should do something!!

[@georgeweber5333]

Nostalgia Kid Should we do something?

[@meowistforlife]

George Weber We should do something!

[@iKillerZombie]

Yourpetcat meow Should we do something?

[@Spikex1]

"Given how Kirby came up with the idea, if you really wanted to go with them being actual gods, it's more like the Norse pantheon..." There's no "if you really want to think about it that way" for this, man. That's EXACTLY how they're supposed to be, with Kirby creating them as a direct result of his time with Thor over at Marvel. Both Greek and Norse gods actually exist in both Marvel and DC universes. Heck, both Thor and Hercules are the *actual* Thor and Hercules, from different pantheons, and they're both teammates on the F-ing Avengers together. So Kirby went ahead and made up some of his own gods for DC, just as valid as something like the Greek gods that power Wonder Woman and Shazam/Captain Marvel, and he crafted some then-modern day epics of those gods fighting amongst themselves, getting involved with the affairs of mortals, fighting rivals similar to the Titans who fought the Greek gods, etc.. It's all exciting and fun stuff that's directly inspired by actual crackling tales of myth. Regardless of how weirdly they can be characterized throughout Final Crisis, referring to them as "gods" with their own pantheon is 100% accurate. Darkseid has even had a small rivalry with Zeus. Walt Simonson's "Orion" series had some fantastic showings of Orion's talents and innate knowledge of tools of combat as his pantheon's God of War. And then we have what is effectively the Christian God existing over them all, commonly referred to as "The Source," but also referred to as "The Voice" or "The Presence" when dealing with beings like The Spectre or Lucifer when shown in those books. Sure, the New Gods could *ALSO* be called aliens with advanced technology in the sense that they're beings not from Earth, and their understanding of the universe is beyond our own, but so could the Norse gods (Thor's hammer and belt of strength, anyone?). The New Gods aren't invincible, just as Thor can be beaten up for the Hulk, or the Titans of myth can push around some of Zeus' crew, and Superman can sometimes land a nice shot on Darkseid's jaw... and they can sometimes fall or be stripped of their powers or otherwise humbled, but they do have an established divine connection to the universe. And a specialized connection with certain concepts within creation that's unique to each of them (Granny Goodness is the Goddess of Child Abuse, just FYI). How the New Gods can simultaneously exist at the same time as the Greek and Norse gods in the DCU wasn't really a concern for Kirby (especially with the whole classic narration caption of "THE OLD GODS DIED!" and the fact that the Fourth World stuff was pretty detached from the rest of the DCU when it was first coming out), and in the decades since then it hasn't really been fleshed out much more. Fans can come up with some theory about the "Old" gods being reborn in order to still be around in the modern day DCU, or something like that, but at the end of the day they do all co-exist in a big convoluted cosmic tapestry together. When dealing with cosmic beings that often operate on a conceptual, metaphysical level, I can accept a lot of the vagueness of myth, so to speak.

[@cameronedwards4893]

Granny Goodness is a Goddess of WHAT!?

[@Spikex1]

Cruelty and subjugation, but generally focused on applying it to children, so it will occasionally be phrased in the shorthand of "child abuse." Desaad is the one who is commonly regarded as the God of Torture. He's the interrogator and the one who comes up with all of the Apokoliptian instruments of inflicting pain on both the body and soul, after all. Kirby kept a lot of specifics about the nature of each individual god's godhood vague and undefined, so much of it has been left to other writers to flesh out. We know that Orion is at least *a* god of war, although it will sometimes be characterized as something he shares with his brother Kalibak (Orion being the heroic side of war, having to do ugly things to fight for good, while Kalibak represents the savage and cruel side of war, being needlessly barbaric and bloodthirsty).

[@johnnygyro2295]

Yeah, who exactly the "Old Gods" were depends on which version of the story you're looking at. In the original version, they seemed to be DC's version of Asgard that was destroyed when Loki started Ragnarok. Asgard's explosion, known as the Godwave, would somehow empower the New Gods and the gods of other worlds. In the New 52/Rebirth timeline, there seems to be more than one group of Old Gods. Zonuz/Yuga Khan, a.k.a. Darkseid's father was apparently the King of the Old Gods on Galactica (before Darkseid killed them all). Meanwhile the Olympians, who are still around and Wonder Woman's family, are also considered Old Gods.

[@gabrielperrella]

And what about that idea of Darkseid being unable to die because he is the Incarnation of Tyranny, like when Spectre Hal Jordan tried to kill him and failed? Or that was because of the prophecy of Darkseid's final battle against Orion?

[@miy1925hassun]

Gabriel Perrella I think it was the former.

[@shingshongshamalama]

I love that even after all the Channel Awesome stuff, Linkara still references his 2009 continuity. Because comic books.

[@shadow759]

Man I felt like a idiot when I was first getting these issues when they were coming out....It was so confusing and hearing you it's still a confusing damn comic hahaha. Great review!

[@gracekim1998]

Oh hello 👋

[@wdcain1]

Grant Morrison is the Quentin Tarantino of comics: He doesn't write comics, he writes comics ABOUT comics! _Seven Soldiers_ was really good. The _Bulleteer_ mini was my fav since that poor girl's life is ruined after becoming a super.

[@GeneralKenobi75]

One of the few good things that came out of Final Crisis was Dick Grayson series as Batman. Unfortunately, another thing that came out of this was Cry for Justice so I guess it balances out. As for the New Gods being actual "Gods" that's debatable. How powerful gods are depends on different mythologies. The Norse Gods for example could be killed and even die of old age if they don't eat those golden apples. Other deities too are vulnerable. Over in Marvel the various gods of various religions(and there are a lot, Thor encounters gods of other worlds besides Earth) are powerful but not omniscient. They also can be killed. It takes a lot but it can be done. The New Gods seem to be more than just significantly advanced aliens(which you could technically classify all gods as). They are immortal, live on another plane of existence(New Genesis and Apokolips occupy a different dimension), came into this universe before any other species evolved, and are closely tied into the Source, which is the source of all existence to the universe. They came into existence when the "Old Gods", their predecessors, destroyed the previous universe in an apocalyptic war like Ragnarok. With their origins, powers and immortality they can well be classified as gods. They aren't the omniscient, in control of all existence kind of gods, but they are gods with a sci-fi bent. Both Darkseid and the Highfather exhibit far more power than any alien outside of full on reality warpers can match.

[@PowerCrunchVideos]

They are legit Gods that was the whole point of the three New Gods volumes. They even exist in a higher plane of reality where the DC Multiverse is a simple air pocket. Both Highfather and Darkseid constantly alter the pillars of existence with their presence.

[@Psykolord1989]

"We all saw what a great disaster that (Countdown) was!" I understood that reference, well played

[@phoenixshadow6633]

Crisis on Infinite Earths destroyed the multiverse, Infinite Crisis restored the multiverse, and Final Crisis created the status quo of the multiverse ... until Flashpoint flushes it down the toilet.

[@daltonwilliams1723]

victor hoang ...so is Rebirth a plunger?

[@phoenixshadow6633]

That implies that New 52 didn't smash the toilet into a plumber's worst nightmare.

[@daltonwilliams1723]

victor hoang well, i mean, if your talking semantics; flashpoint IS the new 52. It leads directly into it

[@L1701]

@@daltonwilliams1723 More like Rebirth blew up the toilet and covered everything around it in poo.

[@MrBlueSkyof1607]

And Dark Crisis (on Infinite Earths)?

[@ZgermanGuy.]

I just love it that in comic books a character that was gone for over 50 years suddendly gets remembered and has a comeback would not surprise me if in another 50 years that same guy comes back as a major Antagonist of dc universe

[@jfdrac]

Welcome the new Injustice League of 2022..The Un-men, Devilance, The Human Target and .Funky Flashman

[@HyruleSwordsman94]

Can't I just have one more crisis? Ok, but this is the FINAL Crisis! ...Yeah, I thought of that like 3 weeks ago.

[@demianoff]

Oh my, part of the first comments

[@TheHeroOfTomorrow]

“Okay, but if you ask for one more crisis, we are turning this car around!”

[@Metrion77]

But DAAAAAD. What if I think of something, and not being able to express my creativity leads to doubting myself. You could be giving me an identity crisis! Dad: WE JUST HAD ONE OF THOSE IN 2004!

[@Metrion77]

Fine, as long as you spend AT LEAST one miniseries explaining how it affects Donna Troy's backstory

[@dannyfenlon2476]

Metrion77 aww but i wanted to retcon hawkman this time

[@michaelrhett4958]

Lewis, no matter what happens in the future, I will always stand by you all the way. Regarding what’s going on with CA is none of our business. Probably this won’t matter to you but I just want you to know that I will support you. Have a great rest of the day Lewis and good luck in the contest of champions Linkara.

[@alexanderf8451]

I've always found modern takes on the New Gods to be uninspiring. People try to fit them into classical deity roles but they're clearly not meant to go that way but rather fit into modern concepts of the world. For example Metron is not the "god of knowledge" he's the god of science, that's why he spends him time learning things and exploring. Likewise Darkseid isn't the "god of evil" he's specifically the god of despotism and authoritarianism. And so on and so forth.

[@eliburry-schnepp6012]

Yeah, Darkseid is literally supposed to be the god of fascism. He's inspired directly by Kriby's experiences in WWII

[@alexandergonyea4642]

I've always enjoyed Darkseid's descriptor as "The Personification of Tyrrany".

[@Galvatronover]

I would call darkseid the god of evil

[@fleetadmiralauto6506]

And I'm pretty sure they're not actually gods, like Linkara said. They're highly advanced aliens that may act as/seem to be the god of this or that, not actually the god of this or that

[@Galvatronover]

@@fleetadmiralauto6506 no the new gods was originally a marvel idea for Kirby to replace Thor’s supporting cast and introduce new gods but that got denyed and he mad the new gods instead

[@dmore454]

I think another part of what led to the lukewarm response to Final Crisis is that it had nothing to do with Infinite Crisis or COIE. I know a lot of people (myself included) thought this was going to be a multiverse-crossover epic, and between Countdown, DC's marketing, and just the name Final Crisis itself, I think at the time, it was a fair and common assumption to make (and one I'd argue DC blatantly tried to encourage despite knowing it wasn't true just to increase sales). But instead of the third instalment in a Crisis trilogy, what we got was a New Gods story that was much more a slightly underwhelming (in my opinion) epilogue to Morrison's fantastic JLA run and shouldn't be considered a sequel to IC or COIE other than in name only. Really, the Legion of Three Worlds tie-in is more of a Crisis style story than Final Crisis itself. Still, I'd argue if you don't go into the story with those assumptions and read it purely as a follow-up to Morrison's JLA and Seven Soldiers series, it works pretty well.

[@jakeproven5931]

dmore454 and how heartless it killed Batman Martin manhunter Orion and mr.miracle

[@Vadergeek]

The New Gods are definitely gods. Orion gives a whole speech about it in Simonson's run. Sure, more Greek/Norse than anything, but what's wrong with that? And while Orion was briefly on the Justice League, he's not necessarily the most social guy, or the easiest to get along with, I get them not being completely torn up.

[@Ale_LSH]

I feel the same, when Orion stayed with the JLA it didn’t seem like he became friends with anyone and he was mostly just messing stuff up.

[@beavisdoge237]

Lol yeah they call him a Grade A Cosmic Hardass.

[@CalliopePony]

"Editorial mandates! Guaranteed to crush any story that could potentially be good or your money back! Just kidding. You're not getting your money back." I love this line.

[@nooneknows78]

“And Darkseid is some asshole who can shoot lasers out his eyes while trying to find the comfiest couch in the world to sit on!” I’m crying 😂😂😂

[@Inlelendri]

"There is no other significance. Grant Morrison just thought it was important." Why do I so feel like, without having read the story, that that's gonna be a pretty good tagline for the whole thing?

[@BodySprayMan]

That statement sums up Morrison in a LOT of his works, same with his alternate counterpart, Jonathan Hickman. They both luuuuuv them some high concept stuff, but it really ends up being pretentious drivel.

[@janushunyadi9612]

Morrison actually wrote pretty decent JLA stories back in the 90s. And there is also some good mainstream stuff by him past that. Unfortunately, Final crisis was done in a time when he also wrote Batman and came up with that awful "Batman R.I.P" story. As for how Final Crisis is going to play out... I read it when it came out. It is going to be fucking ridiculous. Let's just say that for an event called "Final Crisis" nothing really feels that much like a big finale. And that is not even going into the territory where they killed Batman.

[@Kekkersboy]

Eh I loved every moment of the ride. Though partly because I knew that Countdown would have absolutely nothing to do with the story so I dropped it like a rock earlier as well as staying clear of Death of the New Gods. Thank god for the Booster Gold comics telling the audience to ignore Countdown. And may I ask why you didn't like Batman RIP?

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

i love jonathan hickman's and grant morrison's works (although grant had weird ideas about magneto when he could have use the joseph clone; also replacing rogue with "ultimate rogue" based on the cartoon; ad i would have loved to see Sun-Human Torch vs God-Emperor Doom, (plus the characters that survived like peter parker, star lord, t'challa and jane foster remembering the wars) but jonathan hickman's secret wars was already getting too delayed).

[@bluespaceman7937]

It would be relatively valid, yes. At least to a degree.

[@Logan912]

"We should do something!" *Five years later* "You know what? I'm going to do something!" *Picks up phone* "Yeah, I'd a like a large pizza, extra cheese..."

[@tuvyamaeir4684]

Well, the timespace continuum has now been broken and your outfit from way back then is now floating in limbo. Par for the course considering you're talking about a Grant Morrison work!

[@Glitchtophertm]

I'd ask if you mean the space time continuum but, I'm sure it's so fucked that the name itself changed... Or I've been saying wrong I don't know.

[@xShadowsaur]

I wonder how clever Grant felt when writing that Orion crashed into a crate containing toy "Super Guns" considering what actually killed him...

[@RabblesTheBinx]

Yay! I don't have to wait another 21 years to see this!

[@camerongrow6426]

"As the skies begin turning red, the black racer appears over head." Was that rhyme intentional?

[@davidsh752]

Considering the DC universe is obsesed with historical minutiae, especially in it's events, I think it's fitting for them to have the largest DC minutiae geek of them all do an event for them.

[@reginaroadie]

When the one guy went "Silence!", I was so waiting for the Council of Robot Elders from Futurama to be the cutaway gag.

[@DragonfameDracas]

I had never even heard of Final Crisis before this. Why would you take my innocence from me like this Linkara?

[@twinkiesmaster69]

Hypno-Thorax I know

[@Pikachu2Ash]

Hypno-Thorax No one took your innocence you always had a dirty side to you;)

[@ricimer8517]

It was actually my first dc comic book. Boy was i confused. But it did get me to read other comics. Now all i have to do is wait for linkara to read Youngblood: babewatch for maximum nostalgia

[@QuintMarvel]

Anti-Life justifies your suffering.

[@lcmck2418]

Hypno-Thorax I

[@aaronbourque5494]

No, they are literal gods. Yeah, it depends on who's writing them--Simonson's Orion in the 90s is probably the best depiction of that--but they were never just "really powerful aliens." New Genesis spontaneously evolves "bugs" into a humanoid, sentient species, the Source is more than just a power source. Kirby was more interested in telling crackin' action tales than exploring the metaphysical implications of what he himself was creating (and his initial run on his own creations was cut short before it ever got halfway, where potentially he could have, but we'll never know; even when he was given an opportunity to capstone his 4th World Saga, he was only given an extra-length prestige format book to do it, so he focused on the action).

[@brandonlyon730]

Then what’s up with the Greek Gods with Wonder Woman’s and the amazons?

[@aaronbourque5494]

Those are the Old Gods.

[@brandonlyon730]

I thought the old gods were killed off in some big war eons ago, and after the bloodbath came in the new gods after their deaths.

[@christianhansen2569]

I mean I’m not very familiar with Cosmic Comics or the New Gods, but I took Linkara’s criticism a different way. When you describe them as being more than just powerful aliens and use turning bugs into people as an example of that, well that just seems like a really powerful ability that you could find in equivalent superheroes who aren’t gods. Hell, Reed Richards probably did the equivalent of that as a side project. I took all this talk in the book about “deicide” and “good gods” and “bad gods” as more like these characters are meant to be living manifestations of the metaphysical underpinnings of the universe, like they were actual embodiments of good, evil, etc. like God and Satan are in Christianity. I sort of thought of it like how in God of War 3 the Greek Gods weren’t just powerful, they maintained all of existence just by being. When you killed Poseidon the ocean would “break” and you’d get tidal waves and floods and the like, and likewise for all the other gods and their corresponding domains. Is that what the New Gods are supposed to be, because my impression of people like Darkseid from other media was that he and the rest of the New Gods were just hyper-advanced aliens with incredible powers who were gods simply by virtue of being more powerful than everyone else, like in Star Trek with their Greek Gods and the Q Continuum.

[@Painocus]

Brandon Lyon: If you go by Kirby alone the Old Gods were the Norse Gods specifically, so the Greek Gods wern't really all that relevant. And Kirby initially tried to distance the Fourth World stuff a bit from the rest of the DC universe anyways. Later authors included all mythology as part of the Old Gods and didn't immediately solve their own plot-hole. I think the most common explanation is that the Old Gods were some kind of proto-pantheon on which the others are based, and that those were reformed from fragments of the Old Gods' powers when the original plane of the Gods where shattered during Ragnarök. (Explaining why for example, both Zeus and Jupiter exist at the same time in the DCU). Or somesuch.

[@goldenthyme13]

The haunted look when you said "unless KZbin collapses" don't jinx yaself

[@johnoneil9188]

So Linkara reviews this twenty years before he is scheduled to do this in the future. Does that make this an alternate timeline?

[@bloodstoneore4630]

John O ́neil maybe a timeline altaration that didn't happen in another universe

[@Werezilla]

Considering Linkara's a big Star Trek fan, I think it's original future still exists in a separate universe ala the Abrams universe.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

like how ben 10 treated their travels to the future (except when he past self travelled into the present) before Derrick Wyatt went all Bendis and did whatever the fuck he wanted with the franchise?

[@rebornkusabi7264]

It sure as fuck feels like we're in an alternate timeline lol

[@johnnygyro2295]

Wouldn't surprise me. If Dragon Ball taught me anything, its that time travel usually ties into multiverse theory.

[@fudgegorilla]

Alright, so...I re-read Final Crisis in preparation for this. I love this story! I understand that like, Countdown doesn't make sense when you connect the two, but I don't think that should be held against the work. Guys, the end of this story is a cosmic storyteller summoning an army of supermen, the whole green lantern corps, and every hero he can find to cast down a multiversal vampire and his thrall-ULTRAMAN OF EARTH-3, REDUCED TO A HORRIFYING GHOUL.

[@joluoto]

I've read Final Crisis twice and couldn't understand what the frick was going on. Wll, the 2nd time I got lost in the last issues, so better than the first time.

[@mogan4534]

... yeah, but the build up to that is so underwhelming, non-sensical, and uninteresting. That’s the thing about Final Crisis, it has good scenes and ideas, but then you put those ideas and scenes into the context of the book, and it all falls apart.

[@cognitivedissonance8406]

Yeah you just explained why I can’t stand DC or Morrison

[@johnnygyro2295]

@@cognitivedissonance8406 I heard his run on JLA was good though. I'm going to look for trades.

[@cognitivedissonance8406]

John Morgan I know he’s talented, but I really don’t like his meta approach to storytelling His characters rarely sound like human beings, as plot is everything Your preference may differ from mine

[@jeremycline9542]

The hate from this book carried over to Multiversity, which was not deserved, as the latter is a modern classic.

[@daltonwilliams1723]

Jeremy Cline i love multiversity. Probably that and animal man are the only grant morrison books I've read that i liked

[@Revealingstorm.]

Dalton Williams all star Superman is also really great. His Batman stuff is garbage except for Batman and Robin

[@jeremycline9542]

He actually gave Captain Carrot a really exciting moment which I was blown away by. How could someone make him so cool? Someday I'll read his Doom Patrol from the 80's.

[@andyenglish4303]

This is a modern classic too! I have no idea why Linkara's so down on it. Yeah, it's complicated as shit and Countdown was a poor build-up to it, but it's a great book on its own.

[@chcoman123]

Alex Marko Also, he wrote Arkham Asylum, A Serious House on Serious Earth, which seems to be beloved, so not all his Batman stuff is terrible. I don't know for certain though since I haven't read it, but that's what I've heard.

[@infinityalbi9840]

Linkara used the Blind Guardian's song "Sacred Worlds" in *EVERY SINGLE ONE* of the episodes for Event Comics Month II

[@chs9999]

This is written as if the new gods were the endless from sandman

[@Xhog0]

One of the things I was looking forward to leading up to the Final Crisis review this month was the return of The Monitor joke. You did not disappoint.

[@Timboman2000]

Good on ya Linkara for leaving Channel Awesome! That place has been going downhill for years (especially post Lupa and Phelous leaving) and you were one of the few bright spots left (I'd say "The Dom" is probably the only other creator on there that I still like). Best of luck setting out on your own again, you have my support!

[@SammEater]

Damn, can't believe I missed this video. Went back for nostalgia to watch the Countdown video and I was surprised to see he finally reviewed Final Crisis. Better late than never, huh.

[@brandongiles7240]

Come on man....no Darkseid speech at the beginning? You have to admit, that was one of the truly awesome things about FC.

[@AT4W]

I actually did originally have that planned out with his "3 billion voices" bit, but since everything was so long and taking forever anyway I decided to cut it, sorry. ^^;

[@ldudley2]

Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall Well, I’m glad you at least considered it! :)

[@andyenglish4303]

Read and just post that as its own video, it's the best!

[@harshrajkamal3943]

Ok,I have been following your content for quite a while(for a week now).You amaze me and inspire me to strive for betterment.(eg-Holy Terror review).I am sorry that your terms with CA didn't end well.Considering your hard work,You have earned my subscription.

[@iKillerZombie]

7:43 I love how your rant about the covers is practically identical to Futurekara's rant about the covers back in the Superman VS Terminator review

[@Painocus]

Except the New Gods *were* actual gods, not just aliens. That's how Kirby envisioned them back in the day, as platonic ideals of real-world concepts. You can complain that Morrison ignores all the depowering and trivialization they have gone though since, but you can't just pretend they were never like that, because they were. That was the whole point of them.

[@Painocus]

(Also that-Superman-tie-in-that-is-really-a-part-of-the-main-series-badly-marketed do explain why there are multiple Monitors.)

[@animation1234111]

Okay, there's been no "depowering" or "trivialization" tho. Just people, like Grant Morrison, making them more powerful and significant. Kirby didn't envision them these omnipotent beings whose death would threaten the rest of existence. They can be representations of real-world concepts, but within the context of the story, they're just really powerful aliens. I mean, think about it. Adam Warlock was supposed to be Kirby's platonic ideal of the concept of objectivism (until Stan Lee dumbed him down), that doesn't mean has some intrinsic concept and would warp reality if someone shot in the head.

[@Painocus]

lord freezer: No depowering? During Kirby's run Superman was described as being like a weak child compared to the average adult New God. And this was pre-Crisis "move-stars-with-his-breath" Superman. While the likes of Darkseid could destroy the average adult God with literally just a glare. Before Final Crisis Darkseid had been reduced to being defeated by the likes of Doomsday and even non-powered heroes like Anarky, in-between being a regular punching-bag for the JLA. No, they weren't omnipotent (at-least not individually). Neither are gods in most polytheistic religions; Greek, Roman, Norse, Mesopotamian, Celtic, Germanic, Finnish, Egyptian, etc. etc., or in Final Crisis. This doesn't make them any less divine. And your and Linkara's conception of the relationship between a God and it's attribute is inherently flawed. Greeks believed Kronos to be dead, that doesn't mean they believed agriculture itself to have stopped existing. The Norse believed Balder to be dead, that doesn't mean they walked around thinking that Light was not a thing. And likewise in Final Crisis, Orion dying didn't mean War magically stopped existing. This 1:1 conception of the relationship between Gods and their attribute is a modern simplification. Kirby intentionally tried to invoke older and less concrete, more mythical, lines of thinking. "whose death would threaten the rest of existence." Neither does the death of just any individual god in Final Crisis. You see Orion die right on the page an nothing happens. The whole "refusing to die and dragging the whole of existence down with him" is specific to Darkseid. Instead of explaining the specific reasons why that is within Final Crisis, I'd rather just point out that Kirby has him do almost this exact thing in Captain Victory. Also Adam Warlock isn't comparable here. He was meant to be Kirby's deconstruction of what the Objectivist ideal human would really be like, not a platonic embodiment of Objectivism itself.

[@animation1234111]

Even if we were to accept that the likes of Orion, Big, Barda, Darkseid, and the rest were supposed to be way stronger than someone like Superman, Final Crisis was still shoe-horning way more power and importance than Darkseid was meant to have. Not merely ignoring his depowering. I mean what in Darkseid's older appearances would indicate that he's this multiversal being whose death threatens the rest of existence? What is my conception of the relationship between a God and their attribute? I never said that if a god of something were to die, that would mean the concept they represented would cease to be. And the Greeks didn't believe Kronos was dead. More mythical lines of thinking just back Linkara's point up tho. Fine, he was wrong to say they aren't gods. Which is why he mentioned Kirby's take on the Norse Pantheon (Balder). But his point that Grant Morrison and Final Crisis misrepresents Kirby's idea of the New Gods still stands. They aren't beings of ultimate power and godliness who effecting would warp reality. They're not Eternity or Mistress Death. Unless you want to claim that Final Crisis doesn't treat them that way. That's splitting hairs with Adam Warlock. Him was no less a platonic ideal of objectivism than Darkseid is of fascism.

[@Painocus]

lord freezer: Again, I could talk about how Darkseid has control of the anti-life equation, has killed all the other Gods, and have survived the collapse of the Fourth World itself, an event only comparable in the series to the final war of the Old Gods, and as such this is a special case for him... but as I've said Kirby has already had Darkseid do this kinda stuff: "During those last moments, He struck with a mammoth force which not only destroyed Him, but twisted and battered Time and Space in manners unheard of...!!! Equations conceived by great minds in our past... [...] I viewed it from its bottom side... it's last flaming energy pit still feeding what was left of the Triumph of evil against the forces of virtue... from that kind of war, not even names survived..."- Jack Kirby, Captain Victory, issue #12. (Edit: And in context that last line don't just mean that the names were forgotten, it means that reality was warped to such a degree that the names themselves were erased on a metaphysical level and that even the people involved can't remember them.) You can of-course (rightly) say that Captain Victory is not canon to the DCU, but saying that these things is not in Kirby's conception of the character is wrong. "I never said that if a god of something were to die" Linkara argued that they were not Gods because they don't do stuff like that. It seemed to me you were defending him on this position. "And the Greeks didn't believe Kronos was dead." Depends on what you consider being thrown into Tartaros to be. Darkseid is meant to embody an abstract concept, while Adam Warlock was meant just to illustrate "hey, how these Objectivists thinks the ideal human should be would actually be kinda horrible". That's a significant difference. Unless you think Rorschach from Watchmen is comparable to, say the god Mars.

[@WraithTDK]

"Fans cared too much about continuity connections." Me: "I find that deeply offensive. You're way off base." Also me: "I still think Kamandi existing post-Crisis doesn't make sense. He's supposed to become Tommy Tomorrow now!"

[@RasenFemme]

Thank you for all of your glorious power metal picks this month!

[@CarlSlime]

New rule of thumb: If popular internet speculation tries to tell you that a bad story is a deconstruction of something, it's not a deconstruction of anything. It's just bad.

[@phoenixshadow6633]

I'm a firm believer in the concept of Death of the Author.

[@yamina123]

OMG! =D That throwback to the whole "We should do something!" debate made me really, really happy. ♥ Still one of my favourite jokes/moments from the show to this day, heh. XD

[@Kekkersboy]

Oh and Linkara I believe that Ogama actually " IS " telling the audience his plans. This happens multiple times in the story when the characters interact with the reader.

[@actionjackson4982]

"Shut up! We're old and smart, dagnabit!" Yep 😂😂

[@molberding5]

Not to brag, but I could tell it was Darkseid right away. Not because of the obvious club name, not because of the red eyes, but because he was introduced lounging on a couch. Soon as I saw it, I knew we were in for a treat with our favorite couch-searching New God. I swear, I will petition to have a reference to that in his film introduction to the DCEU (if they end up making that movie)

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

on the one hand I FREAKING LOVE THE LONG IMPOSSIBLY DENSE AND OBSCURE NATURE OF A LOT OF COMICS AND THEIR HISTORIES (seriously congorilla from cry for justice did more for me in a single character than most of the big crossovers...even if the rest of cry for justice was terrible) on the other hand i get the feeling this would be near impenetrable to even the most rabid comic fans out there.

[@bellboy64]

I got a copy of Final Crisis as part of a DC Graphic Novel subscription service from Eaglemoss Publications (you got a bunch of "regular" hardbacked copies every month - popular or significant ones like 'Batman: Hush' or 'Death of Superman' for example - and super special ones as thanks for subscribing. I.e, Event comics.) and was anticipating it with great interest. Mostly due to Grant Morrision. I respected his ballsy gumption in his approach to stories where everything is canon even the ultra-weird or nonsensical because I know that gotta take some real effort to fit the pieces together and make it somewhat work. My favourite was making Batman of Zur-Enh-Arr canon and making Batmite his Jiminy Cricket. (From what I gather I've not read that comic yet) ...But also due to the fact he's a Scottish writer. I always feel a sense of "home pride" whenever I see a Scot make waves in the world and become internationally recognised or even celebrated. Especially being heralded for writing one of the greatest Superman stories of time to the point where it's beloved enough for WB to rip it off pieces of it for their movies without really understanding why or how it's important. Morrison seems to be one of those guys who respects the characters and universes he writes for. That's my interpretation and that's ultimately why I'm interested in what he has to say. Btw here's a link to a fun interview featuring Morrison. Basically two Scots having a banter and including a dark interpretation of the story of Batman: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKCvnGmfms2rbLs Anyway, Final Crisis. I liked it. It get where Lewis is coming from though. There are a looot of holes in the plot but it all ultimately led to a bunch of classically comic booky moments that salvaged and held it up for me - with the highlight being Supermen of the multiverse teaming up to fight and interdimensional space-vampire-god. Who is he? Where did he come from? What did he have to do with Darkseid? My answers are I don't care because that was an awesome moment. And it basically came down to classic good vs evil and hope triumphing over impossible odds. I don't understand Final Crisis but I don't know if I really needed to. At least for the moment. It was a fun enough trip. Even if I can't recall most of it. ...Perhaps it's an analogy or something for the confusion and chaos that WOULD be present in a real crisis. How did we get through that? How did we survive? Dunno. But we *did*.

[@BronzeBoy520]

I preferred Old Linkara’s review, thank you very much!

[@thewoollyviking5928]

I like that connection between the New Gods and the Norse, often a detail forgotten about Norse gods.

[@TheIceMann007]

@15:59 So he made them do math homework...? HE TRULY IS A GOD OF EVIL!!!

[@MrGruzefix]

TIME 4 BACKSTORY ON LIBRA: He is some villain, afaik it's not explained where he comes from, who wants to take half the power of all the DC heroes. He does this, by bringing all their villains together to take down the individual heroes. The villains cause trouble around the world so the whole JLA has to become active at once. They decide to switch it up a bit, and go up against villains other then their own e.g. Green Lantern takes on mirror master, Canary fights Poison Ivy etc. While the heroes win every fight, the beaten villains expose them to libras power-draining rays and they loose half their power - batman actually looses half his intellect, however that might work :D. Libra then takes in all the power the villains collected and expands, becoming all knowing - again, however that might work - until he simply gets absorbed into the universe and the heroes are left with 50% power, or in batman's case brains. So ATOM revives AMAZO - yes that one - to collect the heroes lost power, which was spread around the universe when libra was "absorbed" into the universe. Amazo is programed to absorb their lost powers - which makes him increase in power as he goes - but Amazo will still be hostile to the JLA and hunt them around the globe for it to work. To achieve this, Batman programs him to think, his remote to turn Amazo off is actually something Amazo needs to activate or he'll die. The plan works, Amazo goes after whoever carries the remote and becomes stronger as he goes. Whenever he beats one of the heroes, the the remote gets passed to the next hero until everyone is beaten and Amazo turns himself off by activating the remote, he thinks will keep him alive. But PLOT-TWIST: Since Amazo also collected half of Batmans intellect XD he figures out Batman's plan and pretended to push the button! So he kills all the heroes, when they are about to take their powers back. But second PLOT-TWIST: Batman being Batman (well half-Batman) figured out Amazo would do axactly this and beats Amazo by chopping of his head with a power-glove. The heroes get their powers back and everyone is happy. I read his origin story as a child, and still have the book lying around. It's is full of gigantic plot-holes, but it's classic 70ies DC. Stupid plot, horrible dialogues ("Argh, he is using his shrink-ray to turn me half my size!") but quite entertaining. Guess its fitting, that Libras second appearance makes as much sense as his first. Just a lot less fun to read.

[@thebeatisdead]

I have only heard whispers of Final Crisis since I've become a fan of yours. Now that I've been exposed to its danger nothing shall be the same. For Final Crisis's cruelty surpasses time and space. The evil of man is a frightening thing. PS: I always enjoy your episodes and I'm barely waiting for the next one! BARELY! I like watching you make fun of comics because it helps me understand others enjoyment of a media I causally indullge in. PSS: I have to be this over dramatic because I've really have been hearing you curse this comic since I started watching your show around the 300th episode. I did backtrack to understand the storyline because it was so much fun and I wanted to see the other ones.

[@the_madhadder]

I don't know why but 20:02 will forever be one of my favorite bits. It makes me laugh every time it comes up.

[@meowistforlife]

Should we do something?

[@conservaduck7298]

That moment when Barry Allen was your flash and linkara spends nearly the entire time saying him being revived was dumb 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 ps:(I know I’m exaggerating)

[@ForrestFox626]

He isn't wrong

[@emilegalli9549]

Was waiting for this ! I read this comic a couple of times and it was so freaking hard to understand everything that was going on at first.

[@emilegalli9549]

It's a bit confusing, you feel like you understand what you're reading and you're mostly invested but you don't really know what's happening in the bigger picture. I constantly felt like I was missing some crucial part of it all, I read the countdown and 52 stuff afterwards and it didn't quit help at first ^^

[@anthonyfabel8463]

I couldn't follow Final Crisis when it came out. I was so confused. About a year later I read the Final Crisis novelization. That seriously helped with understanding what the hell was going on.

[@Gr4veM1nd]

I kind of like Final Crisis, though it's definitely not as good as the Crises that came before it. It's a Grant Morrison story, so the gonzo stuff is gonna be there regardless of how stuff like Countdown tie into it. It does lead to Morrison's Batman run, though, and I absolutely l love it for that.

[@Kekkersboy]

I certainly liked it better than Infinite Crisis. Though I doubt anything's beating Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[@jordanreed3675]

You should have just recycled the “should we do something” clip from your countdown review it probably saved some time in the filming process

[@BertockJack]

I'm currently reading Kirby's Fourth World saga, so I can't yet say if things would happen later that would make me change my idea about it, but as far as I've read they ARE supposed to be god, greater being compared to the "normal" Superman and co. They're a new, modern version of the Greek gods. They have personalities and feelings, but they are still the ultimate personification of their attribute And talking more in particular about Morrison, at least in his version of the story (that as far as I've read is one of the only two authors that got close to understanding what Kirby meant his characters to be) they are definitely greater existences, in a higher plane of existence compared to the DC multiverse

[@BlackHook13]

This one I've been expecting since Countdown

[@yuritzenpresents3113]

I want to point out, as Tyler did in the Imaginary Axis on Darkseid, that the New Gods have some sort of influence on the universe as a whole. After Orion's death, heroes start to lose against villains as low as the Human Flame.

[@psychogunner7062]

You see Linkara, that was ALSO a retcon wielded by the overlords! Grant Morrison looked at the New Gods having suffered some major villain decay throughout their existence, and decided "You know what, let me power up these folks a bit." Then suddenly, Darkseid as we've seen him this entire time were just avatars to the idea of tyranny itself that resides in Fourth World A cool concept (and was mentioned some times previous to being officialized), but... Yeah

[@TheSpiralCurse]

it seems like the new gods are more like the lovecraft pantheon, ultra powerful aliens that we mere mortals see as godly. the only difference is they have feelings one way or another to earth and other mortal races

[@Barret9559]

The New Gods are literal Gods. They are the Gods of Concepts. Orion is War, Scott Free is Freedom, Darkseid is Lawful Evil/Tyranny, etc. Every thought we have, every act we take, all we invent, all we create are prayers to the New Gods. This has been what they are for a long time now. The versions we usually see are Avatars of the real Gods.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Huh, I guess, since you're leaving Channel Awesome, you won't be able to have crossovers with anyone who's still there any longer. Guess that collaboration with NC from last year was more symbolic than we thought.

[@JammedIce]

Good choice on making this the grand finale for the event Comics month.

[@kimarous]

About the whole whisper-to-audience thing: "A runabout... I'LL STEAL IT! NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW!"

[@DiarraHarris]

Interesting. I always saw "Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow" as a reward to longtime(Gold & Silver Age)readers of Superman for sticking with the character all those years. If that was your first Superman comic I don't think 1. You'll really understand the magnitude of what's going on. 2. Really enjoy or apperiate it.

[@andyenglish4303]

Final Crisis is kind of the same thing. You won't understand shit or appreciate it without a deep understanding of the DCU, which makes it a very difficult read for newcomers.

[@Metrion77]

For those of you who want to know about the theory about this book being a deconstruction of superhero comic books, here's the cliffnotes. Way back in the 1980s, Alan Moore wrote a pair of elseworld comics where Superman wished that he never was Superman, and how his life as a normal man was "the good ending". In one, "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow", he is forced to kill a power-mad mxyzptlk, then renounces his powers in favor of being a regular husband to Lois Lane. In both comics, as well as in other works, Moore paints the happy ending being one where superheroes fade away. The whole multiple Monitor plotline is supposed to represent how the godlike power of the monitors is equivalent to the power of the writers to change everything as they see fit, and the constant conflict and "we should do something!" represents the writers debating about where the characters should go. Mandrakk (representing Moore) comes in after the great battle with Darkseid is complete and says that now is when Superman should die. Nix Uotan comes in with all of the Justice League to defeat the idea of an inevitable death for superheroes an, and superman uses the miracle machine to get "the good ending", but instead of giving up his superpowers, he continues to be superman. The theory states that Grant Morrison made Final Crisis as a way to renounce Moore's belief that superheroes are destined to fade away into normality, and that the good ending is one where superheroes continue to inspire us.

[@chaysesoho4486]

I'm reading Final Crisis for the second time, and I kind of like it. But your analysis has me over here dying laughing.

[@TevyaSmolka]

i tried to read final crisis years ago and i was so confused that i had no idea what the hell was going on in the entire event that i couldn't finished it.

[@moonmochi6131]

You could say this continuity is... RE-Todded..............................Man, I waited so many years for that One!

[@bloodstoneore4630]

Al Neko why didn't we do this joke as much as we thought we would?

[@moonmochi6131]

Probably because Earth - Prime was destroyed, rebuilded and destroyed again. I bet that in another timeline the "Re-Todded" joke is among the most quoted things in history.

[@SBaby]

1:00 - Subtle reference to Channel Awesome's implosion there.

[@Clay3613]

The Watchers loudly announcing who they are to each other is hilarious. Yes, we get it...your the damm Watchers!

[@arturoreyescortez2476]

The continuity alarm has been broken for a long time. Also, the New Gods suck at their jobs.

[@SorowFame]

Why does Martian Manhunter keep dying in these crisis events? Is that how you know the red sky is heralding a crisis and not just some strange weather phenomena?

[@MatthiasPendragon]

I remember picking up Final Crisis from the library when I was a kid, wanting to see what these big superhero event comics were about. I was so freaking confused.

[@breawycker]

"I look forward to meeting the woman who will be the new Dan Turpin" is one of my favorite Linkara jokes

[@DaoFAQ]

“Unless KZbin collapses and I lose yet another platform” Linkara predicted it

[@SorowFame]

Linkara predicted what? KZbin is still here.

[@noahthompson6753]

Sorow Fame time-traveler ... I’ve been watching too much legends of tomorrow

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

Hey, if Dan Turpin gets high, do people say he's "Turpin balls?" Somebody's already done that joke, haven't they?

[@autobotproductions1244]

Not that I’ve heard

[@jeniferw4448]

Just so u know the new gods were retconed to be personifications of ideals with darkside being the actual embodiment of tyranny and that the monitors after being split into different beings developed personalities backed in their home universes giving them more of a human characteristics rather then logical beings I know it’s weird and dumb but these were retcons made for this event series

[@364dragonrider]

Yo a Star Wars themed bar sounds like a great idea.

[@bloodstoneore4630]

Sweet! More countdown bashing!

[@YukoValis]

So you left channel awesome? I can't blame you at all. You were one of the only people i went to that site for. Thus now you have another sub here. : )

[@AceLM92]

Love the use of Blind Guardian after the theme song. Keep using it after the month

[@DalekTheSupreme]

Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? is one of those stories I can't read without crying.

[@OnDavidsBrain]

17:10 And I can already hear Odin from Thor The Dark World explaining to Loki how they're not really gods.

[@daltonwilliams1723]

Are they though? I think shield just considers them aliens. Even in thor ragnarok people seemed to have SOME common knowledge of asguardians and condider them just really powerful aliens

[@brandonlyon730]

Then what’s up with the Greek gods, since Hercules is a literal character in Marvel, not to mention Mephisto being a Christian like Demon how does he work with the Norse Gods?

[@theotherghostgirl337]

Dalton Williams eh it could be considered a theological question. I mean if we visited a planet that was just inching towards the Stone Age we would probably be considered gods

[@Kekkersboy]

They are deities. Thor can actually hear when people on Earth pray to him.

[@shadowspider9]

Keep in mind Hercules is a demi-god. Honestly demi-god is how a lot of these 'god' characters like the new gods or even Thor himself tend to come across.

[@jakebryant3445]

Calling it now. Dark Knights Metal and Secret Empire will be the highest request for next Event Comic Month

[@ztyran]

10:50 I can actually see DC creating a new female Dan Turpin who's the original's granddaughter named Danielle.

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

I agree its not confusing until the space vampire pops up and the alternate supermen

[@BionicleGio22210]

CALLED IT ON THE CALL BACK!!!!!! I am hoping future linkara makes an appearance

[@1wayroad935]

I remember this Event. It was very confusing without reading all the tie-ins.