Lionel Sanders: Breakfast with Bob 2023

[@maiomanmx]

Lionel, stop saying you are medocre, your brain body are listening and you are setting your own limits. You are one of the best... believe it and you will achieve it !!

[@kierancorcoran1379]

💯

[@KungFury_7337]

Bob, you talk all about the athletes that will be remembered. Honestly - You are also a legend yourself. One of the greatest journalists of triathlon. Thank you!!

[@babbittville]

Very kind of you. Thank you.

[@danielparlak]

Bob is such a great guy - love how he opens up trying to portrait the big picture, but still allows the interview to evolve, wherever Lionel wants to focus. Incredible interview and listening skills.

[@babbittville]

Thank you

[@MDROBS]

People champ and GOAT.

[@Rambleon444]

We couldn't have a better ambassador for our sport than Bob Babbit! Thank you, for all you do!!!

[@xanderschelfhout354]

This is why Lionel is one of my favorite athletes! Tons of self reflection, honest and humble

[@marcelcormier8143]

Insecurities! We all have them. But whenever we can come to term with them, that's when we grow. Not always easy to do. But it takes guts and determination and this guy Lionel has plenty.

[@johndibiase882]

Thanks Bob.. Fan favorite of Lionel he's a great guy and really good for this sport. Honestly we need more tri athletes like him to promote the sport

[@mynextcartobuy]

Bob & Lionel… 🎤 🦁 👏

[@Santialfaro93]

Lionel, now you can hire Jan as a consultant 😜

[@federicomurero]

Lionel has the winning mentality. Hope he can achieve what he's looking for

[@nancycarleton3064]

Really enjoyed this Bob! You two have such a rapport! And I just love Lionel - heart on his sleeve! Motivates and inspires me! As a poor swimmer, I will also be watching to see how this new coaching works. I also wish he could bottle up his enthusiasm and sell it!!! Thanks Bob!

[@babbittville]

Thanks so much!

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

13:40 - Ive watched a lot of Lionel videos on his swimming plight. He contradicts himself nearly every 12 months. Probably ‘the best’ he was ever swimming was about 18 months ago when he was also talking about ‘feel for the water’ being the most important factor. Which is true, IMO. However, he seemed to have fallen out of that philosophy and reverted to treating swim training as ‘work’ - just like running. So, now he’s back on strava I see a lot of workouts that are labelled ‘threshold’ or ‘aerobic’ but none that seem focused on ‘feel’, particularly sessions focused on practicing target race pace. Simply put the water ‘feels’ different swimming that fast (ie. sub 1.15 minutes/ 100 METRES) than it does when he is doing ‘hard’ sets swimming at no better than 1.15 minutes / 100 YARDS. He can actually swim sub 1.15/100 M - witness his efforts at the Arena Games last year. He needs to do one key session per week - on top of all the other stuff he doing now - practicing swimming bullshit fast. He would do a lot worse than adding this session into his swim week - done in that long course olympic length swimming pool back home: * warm up; 4 x 100M on sub 1.15 (2 minute repeat cycle) - 200 swim down [freestyle/backstroke with flippers] - 2 x 200M on sub 2.30 pace (4 minute repeat cycle) - 200 swim down - 1 x 400M on sub 5 minute pace - swim down. Over time he could increase the volume until he was doing 8 x 100, 4 x 200M and 2 x 400M - but the main point is that he would be swimming all the quality work in a session at target race pace. This is the exact session that took Aussie pro triathlete Chris Kemp from being a third pack swimmer (so in the 26-27 minute group) to leading out the front pack in championship level 70.3 races (ie. the 23 minute pack) within 18 months a decade ago [although he would only allow himself 10 seconds rest between 100M rep, 20 seconds between 200 reps and 40 seconds rest between 400M reps BUT Lionel needs to throw the interval period out the window IF that is what it takes for him to initially be able to swim at that pace for the whole set. Not to worry, as he is one of the fittest humans on the planet and once his body adapts to swimming at that pace for the whole main set, he will be able to naturally reduce the interval period down to a more typical one]. NOTE: Chris also did 2 x 8km sessions per week, so there is that as well, but I don’t think Lionel has a problem with overall swim volume so I don’t think that is necessary in his case. In summary, if Lionel wants to swim faster in a race he needs to swim that fast (at least once a week) in training. Also - doing more Arena Games type events early in the new year will take this to another level again, because it ‘pressure tests’ the training in a competition setting. Lionel overthinks this shit: KISS dude. KISS!!!

[@ReVoltaire]

Great analysis! If I could piggyback off this a bit. 1) The comparison with Magnus and his swim progress that Lionel keep repeating is specious. Magnus is 195cm and 6" taller than Lionel. Body type matters in swimming -- a lot. Magnus has a very similar natural physique/wingspan to Romanchuk, Wellbrock, Bobby Fink, Sun Yang etc. Could a 5'10" muscle bound fire plug who appears to have a lack of flexibility in theory be a front pack swimmer anyway? Sure. But few are who didn't have a competitive swimming background. Lionel is at a significant physical disadvantage. 2) Lionel's swim deficit is probably mainly a function of excess drag vs lack of "feel for the water" or effective torque in his pull. Videos of him swimming clearly show his torso and legs dragging and his kick splays and adds extra drag. Easier said than done obviously, but if he could somehow get more consistently streamline or have a better posture in the water, he may not need any more force to get close to a front pack IM swim ("drag Trumps force" Gary Hall Jr.). In effect, like on the bike, it's not for lack of "watts" as much as his swimming "CdA" needs improvement. Almost like he needs swim "aero" testing work. 3) Almost regardless of the first two points, he clearly doesn't do enough open water swimming to improve or master that skill which is almost a different (albeit related) sport from 25y pool swimming which is mostly what he seems to train (maybe exclusively?). Just like training 90-95% cycling on an indoor trainer generating "big watts" does not necessarily translateto riding at maximum potential speed outdoors/IRL, so pool swimming by itself won't make one a better open water or real world triathlon swimmer. Sure, guys with serious swim cred in their past, probably don't need a ton of open water to equalize their pool speed and open water speed or technique, but a guy like Lionel certainly does. As I recall from one of Mangus' videos or interviews, he himself note that for some time his pool speed had reached front pack level but it wasn't consistently translating to open water. I don't know how accessibly open water lakes are around Tucson admittedly. Where I am based, in the SF Bay Area. aside from freezing Bay swims, the nearest lake swim is at least 45 min away.

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

@@ReVoltaire Hola mate. Thanks for your additional comments, and not to detract at all from the points you make about technique and so-forth, I’m going to assume that Lionel’s new-old coach from Tower 26 has those aspects covered. My long post was in essence a bit of an internal monologue focusing on ‘one thing’ that would make a difference. I’m an eyewitness to two struggling professional triathletes who both managed to make the transition that Lionel has been talking about now for five years: both have the same build - or even more slender - than Lionel. Their names? Firstly, Peter Robertson - who was a fringe pro in the late 1990s and turned into a three time world champion (with three other WC podiums), a dual Olympian and Commonwealth games medalist. All on the back of being coached to a sub 18 minute 1500M PB in 2000. His coach - Mark Newton - still says that that is his single greatest coaching achievement (even though he coached other triathletes to elite success, including guiding [not officially coaching] Norman Stadler to his first ironman title in 2004). I was there (being coached by Mark but swimming mostly in the age grouper lane - unless mark told me to put flippers on and pace Pete at sub 1.15 pace] -and ‘swimming bullshit fast’ in training regularly was the key to Pete’s improvement. Not drills, not paralysis by analysis on technique (although that is also important). Lenin once remarked ‘quantity has a quality of its own’, and to parse Lenin my swimming maxim is ‘swimming fast is a quality of its own’ and regarding Lionel the evidence is actually captured on video - watch his progression through the arena games from swimming 2.32 for 200M in the heats to 2.25 in the final. All those technique foibles you mentions diminished as he adapted to the stress of competition and swam faster. IMO that is why the sort of session I set out above is so relevant: a decade later and I was swimming with Mark and his then coaching partner - Chris Hanrahan - when one of Chris’s protégés - Chris Kemp - was struggling to make the grade as well (again Chris K has a similar physique to Lionel). The above session was one key session that made the difference (there are others I could write about, but I think this is the essential type of session for Lionel to incorporate on a weekly basis). Once again he was able to make the transition from 3rd pack to 1st pack in pretty short order. Tripping back further down amnesia lane Greg Welsh and Michelle Jones both came from a ‘non swimming’ background, and both worked with coaches in Sydney’s Sutherland Shire who learned their trade at the feet of legendary Aussie swim coaches like Lewrie Lawrence in the 1970s. Specific speed sessions were always the key adaptors and I note that both Greg and Michelle went from struggling to get out within 2-3 minutes of their key competitors in Australian domestic triathlons in the late 1980s to being front pack swimmers in world class triathlons just a few years later. There is a lot of stuff I’ve glossed over - technique, overall swim volume for example, plus your point about open water swimming; but once again I am just focusing one one - key - aspect that would IMO definitely make the world of difference to Lionel.

[@after4091]

Love this interview!

[@lacerationswithgaeldutigny]

I love Lionel because he’s so raw but I feel a little sad for him. He sounds so dissatisfied with himself all the time now which is ridiculous with all his wins and podiums. His head is his weakest link. That man needs a sport psychologist more than anything else. Training your brain is just as important as any bike aerodynamic research or new swim tech. I love that fragility in him, he’s so much more human and closer to us in that sense.

[@jasfowler10]

Great interview! Lionel such a humble dude. Cool to watch his journey.

[@babbittville]

Thanks Jason

[@applenutt1]

It’s not humility. Actually the opposite. Talks waaaaaaaay too much about himself to be humble. It’s arrogance.

[@desmonddimond]

@@applenutt1dude he’s on this podcast to talk about himself. Show some compassion

[@CoolInOlympia]

Interview of a lifetime!!!! Fantastic!

[@carter83419]

Loved this Bob. Just 10 out of 10 🎉

[@Shortlongrunrunner]

This is the best Lionel chat I have watched. I don’t do triathlon and have no plans too but I watch a lot if triathlon stuff and follow it. Lionel is very inspiring you can’t help but root for him. Undoubtedly triathletes are the fittest humans on the planet. Love your chats too, you seem like a great guy with a great shirt collection.

[@babbittville]

Thank you for watching

[@allenlane5000]

Love the Lion Man's passion. Lets bottle it up and get tons of real "kids" fired up for this sport ! Great job fellas...thanks

[@georgesa.videau8332]

Brilliant Itw. Lots of drive and passion. Could be showed as an integration to newbie in Tri clubs to

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

4:10 - fact check. Jan didnt pivot to IM Florida for two reasons: 1. He had his own ‘grand frodo’ gravel ‘race’ to host in Girona the weekend in between, and 2. That was too much travel for him, given his young family and other commitments. From memory however, he DID pivot to finish off the year at Im South Africa, but got sick just before (I could be wrong on that).

[@SergioChavira]

Fantastic people! Thank you Bob and Lionel for the inspiration!

[@SergioChavira]

I have listened to all of Lionel’s interviews during long bike rides, indoor/outdoor and runs. Always great to hear you both chat.

[@meru6940]

Great interview! Yeah and also have a glance on Sebi again I liked. Sounds as a quite big journey which is in plan, good luck and joy on your path Linol! Thx for the interview to both, thanks Bob for all the interviews.

[@babbittville]

Thank you for watching

[@Lummers70]

Bob, always a good interview with the Lion and always entertaining. Would be interesting in one year to record a new interview with him and see how much has really changed or did he about face......again. One thing he is right in - its probably too late. The new generation have the benefit of a more professionalised approach and all the lessons learned from the 'older' generation. Sebi, Tim D, Tim O'D and lately Jan himself have seen this and acted on it in their own respective ways. As a fan of Lionel, can only hope it works out....but the train has probably left the station.

[@Dee3917]

Great interview! Well done! So talented at this BB!

[@markwt2680]

Really like this interview. Bob let’s Lionel talk and goes with the flow whilst taking the conversation on a journey. I really enjoyed this!👍

[@babbittville]

Thank you

[@abegoldberg4030]

The best!

[@simonf1657]

16:23: Germany is looking forward to see you, Lionel!

[@nightsfalling]

I agree with Lionel, all the younger athletes are testing every little gain even if its seconds. That is something all the pros need do do. However, we have to leave some space for fun too.

[@onepunchbud1472]

Working on technique and bike position resulting in winning races is a lot of fun 😉 PS: he is a professional athlete, he has the time and means to work on these things. If he does not he probably won't be on the podium again - at least at the big races.

[@PK-qq1lz]

Dear Lionel, One more shot, for me you are the GREATEST! So much soul in it! Love you bro!!! Jesus loves you.

[@onepunchbud1472]

Bob tanks for that great interview 👍 Man we all love Lionel, but i think we need someone like Sebi to set him straight on the road again. Lionel is all over the place and needs some direction to channel his energy and passion to the right points / something positive. PS: maybe you can organise something Bob? 😉

[@babbittville]

Sebi is great at that.

[@scotmoser8716]

Another great interview Bob. Lionel expresses high on lows. You did a great job keeping him enthused and engaged. As a coach the fact my runners are running forty years after we worked together for live and fitness is as big as their competitive successes!

[@babbittville]

Yes. Congratulations.

[@annaliesmith8699]

Love Bob and also Lionel, but if Lionel would listen more…..

[@bonn1771]

This was awesome I could head this for hours non stop

[@Gufenaugh]

Thanks for talking with Lionel. I hope he goes back and watches it a time or two and understands it was meant to help him.

[@Bockeylife]

He better get his 💩 together Bob or you give him hell 👊🏻🥰 he’s such a genuine guy 💙💙💙 but it’s time 🔥🔥

[@CFCMahomet]

Bob trying to talk sense into Lionel.

[@jfloyo11]

Lionel to busy changing his diet

[@tomas.slavkovsky]

Lionel should pay for this therapy session 😅

[@AntJB12345]

Great Interview. If Lionel was able to mix it up at the front of the race more often instead of chasing everyone down trying to make up a swim deficit he would probably dominate most races he took part in. The fact that he is still able to podium coming out of the water a few minutes down is impressive. He needs to become a front pack swimmer. Thats the only thing missing here.

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

27:00 - I don’t like this sense of panic in Lionel’s voice. Frankly, it is emblematic of his propensity to throw the toys out of the pram: witness 2022. In his post St George Im review video he flat out stated that he got the most out of himself that day and it was in effect a ‘complete’ race BUT one that was only a step in the journey to be at his best when the Norwegian’s came back to long course at the end of 2024. NOW he’s saying - it was only an externally ok race. … sigh. Last year, he then trained himself into the ground the the rest of the year and then threw everything out post Kona: both his overall coach and his swim coach, going back to a ‘work hard’ is the answer mantra and boom - he’s back where he was in 2017 - but without that ‘reward’ in his target race due to that unfortunate DQ. He’s 35 BUT he’s only been in the sport for 10 years and only had one serious injury in that time. He’s not like a 35 yo Alastair Brownlee, whose body seems to held together by sticky tap after 25 years in the sport. Lionel doesn’t just have ‘2 years’ - he really still has 5-10 years left if he wants it. He needs to ‘relax’ a little and just tick off those marginal gains one after the other … and learn to swim bullshit fast in races by practicing swimming bullshit fast in training (se my earlier post).

[@PatrickDelorenzi]

Nothing but ❤

[@therealyoutubegt]

The strongest long-distance triathlete the sport has ever seen, the best storyteller. Unfortunately, his obsession with perfection doesn't allow him to see who he really is. My humble perception

[@leslie7922]

Brb guys going to drink 19L of chocolate milk

[@raze0ver]

for a second I thought LS is racing Kona because of the earlier pre-kona breakfasts 🤣

[@sergiogomes8035]

Lionel compare him to kindergarten triathletes…at 18 years his partying and many are in training camp. He is strong but he missed the technique in three sports, this kind of skills you get when you start sports very young. Brou, you are amaaaazing athlete, just enjoy your gift

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

37:47 - re: the Arena games. Lionel should do all of these early next because he ‘CAN’T’ swim. Look at last year - competition actually forced him to descend from 2.32 for 200M in the heats to around 2.25 for 200M in the final. Go back and watch the video - he is visually a better swimmer in the final than he was in the heats. This is exactly what he needs to ‘pressure test’ those ‘swim bullshit fast’ swim sessions I have recommend below into a racing environment. I’m speculating that next year his ‘A’ race will be 70.3 world’s in Taupo NZ. That race isn’t until December - 14.5 months away. In my view his competitive race return target for next year should be the whole Arena games series. That will set up his year perfectly (and in fact if all goes well, doing Superleague in September-October next year will help him peak for the WC ‘A’ race two months later).

[@dwahearn]

Lionel if you are reading these comments I just want you to know you are the reason I am an Ironman. Your KZbin channel change the trajectory of my lazy ass recliner life. Jan showed everybody how it done this year by still handing all those young guys their asses at 42 years old after all his injuries. I firmly believe that you are yet to hit Peak greatness which you already have in my book. Call Jan. Have him satellite coach you as some sort of therapist. SHOW everybody what Canada is made of. Age is just a number for now. My seventy-year-old stepfather will be racing his ninth Ironman in Texas in April and aiming to get his Kona slot for the first time in his life. I hope you're there to win the race when he gets to race his. NO LIMITS Motherf@#$%#. Tell Little Levi I said your Dad is the man. # transcend everything you know

[@babbittville]

Love this

[@dwahearn]

thanks Bob I love everything you do. You the man

[@Rambleon444]

I don't understand watt outputs. How accurate is recording watts? I have seen 2 guys do a ride together with basically the same weight but they both have a big difference in wattage.

[@jamesbailey5008]

Lionel we love you but cut yourself some slack, Bob said it best

[@quengmingmeow]

Bob: with the athletes you’ve interviewed many times and call friends…..how often does the interview completely deviate from your prepared notes? I can tell you just “allow that horse to run” wherever it wants, but I’m interested in how often that happens.

[@babbittville]

All the time....my notes are more like bullet points to draw from wherever the interview may go. I do go in to many interviews with topics I am interested in discussing, but they are always open to wherever the athlete goes. Thanks so much for watching.

[@peterh.1521]

Lionel have right, high performance for him. I think Lionel must be a bit more disciplined to stick to a race plan that stretch through a year.

[@jamesbailey5008]

Bob's like wtf

[@rylanrussell9595]

Lionel's newest resolution: he races too much. What will he think up next month?

[@onepunchbud1472]

Back to chocolate milk? Man we all love him but he is still all over the place. 😢 He should contact Sebi, that's probably the only guy who could talk some sense into him and set up a plan to check one thing after another.

[@rylanrussell9595]

@@onepunchbud1472 I think he needs both a sports psychologist and a good coach. I think firing Mikal was the right choice as I don't believe Mikal was genuinely invested in his success and he's just a slimey dude in general. But I do think he should have replaced him with a better coach. He needs some guidance to hold him to a game plan and a psychologist to help with his commitment issues and keep him away from his endlessly destructive thinking. I've never seen someone piss on himself so much for top 3 results.

[@onepunchbud1472]

@@rylanrussell9595 I fully agree with you. Separate from Mikail was good. That guy was too young and inexperienced imo. I also think you need to have a different look at athletes and you cannot let Lionel do the same training as Gustav. This won't work because they have a different age, trained differently for the last years and also have different strengths/weaknesses and so on. And concerning Sebi - I think he could be actually good. Lionel respects him. Sebis probably knows about all these things where to look at and even has some sort of network in place if there is help / advice needed. But yeah, just wanted to throw a name in. Lionel needs some sort of advisor to go through the different points he needs to work on and a person who holds him accountable imo. And this only works if Lionel respects that person.

[@fransur1386]

Bob, Lionel needs Brett Sutton!!

[@JohnDoe-pz9df]

Not going to say much 😂😂

[@eitanshushu]

the game has changed and still is. ditlev first used the aero battle in the skinsuite, everybody does it in 2 years. he introduced a pneomatic chair on a tt bike in ice. the train has left the station. make sure to speed up the process and catchup. your old school bike prowes days are gone. everybody is going sub 2hrs now. invest in the small things, cda is obvious and other staff.

[@ebhkkc1]

Great interview, Bob. Lionel needs to retire and coach. His is all over the place, and I really respect him. His prime is past, and the field is too good at all 3 disciplines. I think you know this as well Bob

[@gtkona1608]

I suspect that his addiction personality has limited him for a decade. Always switching coaches, training philosophy, equipment. Always 'knowing' what is right, except he is wrong.

[@timobrien256]

Talk is cheap….we will see!?

[@jm6734]

Lionel seem kinda neurotic for a pro athlete. He needs a great trainer making strong decisions and do what he does best. Train like an animal

[@paulsolon6229]

If Lionel watches himself on this video he will see he can’t talk currently w o saying Like You know Kinda

[@gabeduran8321]

Did you bother reading the rules about crossing the middle line? NO!!! !

[@winalldayeveryday]

Live from Epstein Island, it’s Bob Babbit

[@karlosfandango6637]

😅