Lions vs. Niners RECAP, MVP DEBATE & New Year’s Resolutions! 👏 | The Mina Kimes Show featuring Lenny

[@mathieuguillet4036]

Congratulations on being an MVP voter, Mina! Your objectivity is excellent, and it has been rewarded.

[@trueson5351]

Mina, so you’re saying that not only did Lamar have a MVP season, but he did it against MUCH better opponents. 🧐

[@lennybeason1110]

Exactly!

[@ivydlicious]

like the Bengals and Giants? Where a huge chunk of Jackson’s yards and TDs come from.

[@SoulDuJour]

⁠@@ivydliciousso playing the Jets twice and a lions defense with 16 defenders on IR and a bad Rams defense means what?

[@truthbearer7891]

@@ivydlicious Notice how Josh Allen stans have to lie to promote their guy: % TDs vs Teams Above .500: Lamar 58% / Allen 37% % Yards vs Teams Above .500: Lamar 59% / Allen 44% % Wins vs Teams Above .500: Lamar 64% / Allen 21%

[@ivydlicious]

@ who is the only QB to Beat the Chiefs and hang 30 on them all year? Allen’s best performances are against the best teams in the NFL. Doing so without losing to two of the worst teams in the NFL. Jackson’s biggest win is against the Bills which is more of an argument for Derrick Henry’s MVP candidacy not Jackson’s.

[@michiganlover12]

Dan O “wr separation” argument is absurd. Prime example of mental gymnastics to support your bias

[@youngOmackin]

Mina, you seem to be the only person who actually speaks on the MVP with a non biased agenda

[@sebastianiturrino6582]

YESSS!!! SAY IT LOUDER FOR DAN ORLOVSKY 😭😂

[@browncoat5195]

Only because Geno isnt in it. Jk jk for real

[@yilo9990]

😂😂😂mina is a joke! She been tlkn s about the lions. How the hell she get mvp vote!? Espn sucks!

[@browncoat5195]

​@yilo9990 she's a good analyst man. The defensive injuries are what she was/is worried about. Who coukd forsee DC and AG leading a triage unit defense to this point?

[@Truthtella]

Yeah right how is the MVP being considered from a 5 loss team and an 8 loss team? Neither Lamar or Burrow is contention to have the best team in the league. Burrow isn't even qualified for the playoffs. The candidates should be Allen, Goff, Barkley and I can't believe I'm saying and Darnold. Burrow and Jackson are included then there's an argument to be made for Mayfield. He's leading the league in TDs. So she's not being objective at all.

[@tedmich]

Two great analysts! Thanks guys, Happy New Years Eve!

[@Gramsciwastoo]

"... chaotic off-season, getting shot, didn't play for a while." Only in the USA is that phrase uttered so casually. 😂

[@JohnSmith-yc2cr]

Bills against top 10 defenses in scoring: 4-0 averaging 34.75 per game. Ravens against top 10 defenses in scoring: 3-3 averaging 26.67 per game.

[@ronan7264]

I count 3, Detroit had 15 people just on defense on IR tht game.

[@Tank-42]

Allen has played 13/17 games against non playoff teams

[@tWoFrEsHmClOvIn]

​@@Tank-42he's dumpster juice 🥤

[@jullicent]

I hope we get an unsatisfactory tie between Lamar and Allen so that everyone is upset

[@bcamm3100]

😂

[@adamkadmon3857]

Outside of a Superbowl, I can't think of a more satisfying end to this season. 🤣

[@DavidEhrhartKing]

I actually think a tie would satisfy everyone. I think Lamar is the MVP, but I recognize how close it is, and I recognize that Allen has been fantastic. I would have no issue at all with co-MVP's.

[@user-wb5jw8df3t]

I'd be satisfied, and wouldn't be upset. They both had great years, and the MVP is a nice little trophy but it will really mean nothing if neither are playing in New Orleans next month.

[@jr921-in2se]

Mina, Happy New Year to you and Lenny 🎉 Keep up the good work

[@bryancole5695]

Thank you Mina for actually using CONTEXT for your MVP decision.

[@willgenre]

Finally someone mentioned strength of schedule. Lamar beat Allen and Burrow

[@SlimTim222]

Henry was the MVP against the Bills, not Lamar

[@yourmom19971000]

and lost to Winston and Minshew. Allen beat Mahomes who beat Lamar. You see how futile these head to heads are when comparing qbs

[@holpcs2]

​@@SlimTim222Lamar had 3 touchdowns. He was every bit as responsible as Henry was. Stop lying.

[@joshuaokparaocha331]

They’ve also beaten every AFC playoff team besides the Chiefs by a toe

[@kompletist]

Minshew for MVP!

[@OBPMA]

19:45 I see why Josh fans hate Mina... I'm glad she has a MVP vote

[@nothanks3590]

@@OGtruthserum she knows more than you.

[@eshakumar6982]

Here is what’s missing in her argument is total points scored and the number of 4th quarters Allen has sat out

[@SlimTim222]

Which bills fans hate Mina? Also all she says is LJ has the stats here. She doesn’t say he is the MVP

[@crustybs46]

She used only passing epa in her argument and didn't include total turnovers. Disgraceful shit

[@joshuaokparaocha331]

@@SlimTim222 46:40

[@mjmwise]

Thanks for a great show!

[@segagenesis7708]

The floor is definitely higher for Lamar. A dud from Lamar is just an average game by most QB standards. A dud for Allen is 9/30.

[@ChiBearsman2269]

Happy New Years Mina, and to your family and Lenny 🎉

[@TeRave-c3l]

It's a close MVP race, but the fact that Lamar had a tougher schedule AND beat Josh's team so bad they had to bench Allen is the reason Lamar Jackson is your MVP. In addition to the most impressive stats.

[@jasonmahr5397]

Allen - leading a scoring offense averaging 31.8 PPG without a Derrick Henry, and with Receivers ranked in the Bottom 5 in Separation Rate. Lamar - leading a scoring offense averaging 30.2 PPG with MVP candidate Derrick Henry, and with Receivers ranked #1 in Separation Rate. This is a classic case of Josh Allen doing MORE with LESS : the very definition of the Most VALUABLE Player award. Allen also has way fewer negative plays. 8 turnovers and just 63 yards lost on 14 total sacks. Lamar has 9 turnovers and 149 yards lost on 23 total sacks. And yet Mina here still thinks Lamar is the MVP over Allen. Based solely on counting stats like TD/INT ratio and Passing Yards, and antiquated Passer Rating stat created during the Stone Ages.

[@DorkJelly]

@@jasonmahr5397 Cool I can cherry pick stats too. Allen is no different than before with turnovers. This year he is 17th in turnover worthy play rate (just like last year). The difference? He played mostly garbage teams that didn't capitalize on all the would-be interceptions he is throwing. And as for being valuable Josh Allen is 4-0 when under 100 passer rating and playing average to below average. So even when he plays bad his team still wins....including just recently where he got outplayed by a rookie on a 3 win team...his defense/special teams won the game for him. Meanwhile Lamar who never got blown out by a team unlike Josh....Lamar played a bunch of statistically good to above average games and lost due to bad defense, bad kicker who has missed more points than points the ravens lost by. Also is #1 on the betrayed QB list by a QB EPA having to overcome negative EPA by defense/special teams. Burrow is 2nd on that list and Allen....isn't even in the top 10. The narrative of Josh Allen having to uplift and carry a bad team around him is just completely fabricated if you are going by the numbers and how the players around him have ACTUALLY executed.

[@tWoFrEsHmClOvIn]

​Lamars getting his 3rd MVP before Josh can get his first GTF over it Lamar is HHHHHIIIIIIMMMMM 😂😂😂​@@jasonmahr5397

[@tWoFrEsHmClOvIn]

@@jasonmahr5397 🧂 🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂😆😆😆😆

[@ScottyCof93]

Wait, so you say it's because of having a tougher schedule, yet Lamar lost to his greatest competition. (KC and Philly) Meanwhile, Allen beat his greatest competition (KC and Detroit). Lamar also lost to his easiest competition (Vegas and Cleveland). Meanwhile, Allen only lost to division leaders on the road. As for "Lamar beat Josh's team," stop giving Lamar credit for this. Henry had 200+ yards and 2tds on 24 carries. 8.4 per carry with an 80 yard td run to start the game. That's a monster game. Lamar's stats from that game aren't even close to as impressive as this.

[@snoworicehockey]

The way the Vikings team celebrated Sam Darnold after their win over the Packers says it all. He was the reason Vegas picked Minnesota to win only 6 games and so then he has to be the reason they are 14-2 and playing for the #1 seed in the NFC.

[@DaveBaker-d2e]

I love him

[@darrellwinston8909]

I'm so glad you did this. You broke it all down so perfectly

[@paulmayer8654]

It's funny how home field means more to the Lions than any other team, yet they're the best road team in the NFL lol of course I'd rather be playing at home, but if there's a team that does NOT need it, it's the Lions. The bye is probably more valuable than the home field at this point.

[@forwardgrappling]

I think they just need any assistance possible, considering the injuries they've suffered

[@user-wb5jw8df3t]

There is a question of how Goff would play in a bad weather game. There still is a dome stigma towards quarterbacks who don't regularly play in awful conditions.

[@paulmayer8654]

@@user-wb5jw8df3t that's old news. He was great in both bad weather games this year. LA Goff is not Detroit Goff

[@feroxk.9266]

The Lions had their Bye-Week in week 5. Thats the earliest of all the contenders i think. That would be the only real reason to me for the need of the first round bye.

[@paulmayer8654]

@ so did the Chiefs. That’s why those 2 teams are supposed to be the #1 seed 😆

[@Serching4JerryGarcia]

Jared Goff is the only MVP candidate who is playing for the 1 seed

[@terrencemoore8739]

@@Serching4JerryGarcia lost more games against worse teams

[@Serching4JerryGarcia]

@ don’t know who you talking about since the Lions are 14-2

[@holpcs2]

Maaan, no one cares.

[@David-w9i7j]

@@terrencemoore8739 Lost to the Bills and to Tampa, both teams are top their division. What a stupid thing to say.

[@David-w9i7j]

If Jared balls out and wins against the Vikings on Sunday, she should be the MVP. To keep the team rolling with the offense despite all the injuries on defense is more than Allen has done all year running on teams like the Jets and Patriots.

[@cocomongisbread7425]

What rationalization did you use last year? Decision making processes should be consistent, otherwise, it's just preference, with statistical support after the fact.

[@edwinnavedojr]

they had Conversations about it last year too ..... nothing was given ... it was all evaluated ... and the biggest reason why Lamar won it last year was while all the candidates were leveling off and having mediocre to bad games ... Lamar was elevating and defeated 3 of the 4 candidates head to head in spectacular fashion ... it was a tight race and in December Lamar separated himself .... they are talking about all the variables and this year the Race is so much closer and harder to gauge as there isn't a clear winner ... so it will be a very split vote this year and if Lamar or Josh win ... you can't go wrong with either one

[@dubaidaddy13]

Happy New Year, Mina, Lenny and Dominique and your families! Looking forward to see where the NY takes you.

[@pakONEoh]

Would you look at this. An unbiased conversation about the various MVP candidates and their strengths and weaknesses from various perspectives. This is so counter the nonsense ESPN spews from their prime time programs. Job well done Mina! Job well done.

[@FadedExtra]

Separation is as much a QB stat as it is a WR stat, how do people not see that

[@maineventpro0809]

I'm thankful that we're in an era where these QBs are doing these amazing things all at the same time. What a time to be alive.

[@Gramsciwastoo]

@@maineventpro0809 Yeah, if it weren't for the fascism everything would rock.

[@natedesh3197]

It’s so lazy to use Stats as the way to determine the mvp race. Because what if it was a QB vs a running back or vs a defensive player, how do you now use stats to compare both players? MVP is a mix of a lot of things and stats should be a way to backup who you think should win, not that stats is what you’re using to determine who wins

[@larry2281]

Darnold and Goff belong ahead of Burrow in the MVP conversation.

[@BM-si2ei]

I don't think there's a person on Earth, Sam included, that thought he'd be an honest to God MVP-candidate. He isn't the MVP this year, but that we're even talking about it and it's not crazy is amazing.

[@bangjoeofficial]

Baker belongs ahead of Burrow too. I mean I don't think Baker is the better QB overall, but this year he's been everything for the Bucs who can clinch a spot on their own terms without the help the Bengals need.

[@Thesinfultruth]

Ms KIMES IS A BEAST WHEN IT COMEMTO THIS MVP SHIT SHES AN EXPERT

[@stephano.s]

thank you mina for telling the truth and not narrative

[@BrianCGimmicks2025]

Goff 4398 yards passing 36/td's/10 int's 14-2

[@BrianCGimmicks2025]

@@zonabot6029 Mina said she's a judge. So, my statements should be precise; supported by fact, the five int game two passes were tipped. Texans were top 6 in power rankings and defense coupled with youth are strengths of Houston. Besides C.J. who is declining currently.

[@BrianCGimmicks2025]

Jackson doesn't do it for me because #Mahomes has his number; currently chasing a three-peat, this notion undermines the very foundation of MVP consideration. Consensus is Mahomes 15-1 is baby new year again! Lol

[@VintCross]

Not to mention Lamar uses his off script scrambling to allow time for his receivers to get open. If you look at Lamar's game, he can extend plays in the back field for 7 to 8 seconds. MV3

[@danielfishback6348]

@@VintCross Josh does the same thing, and his receivers get less open. Which is the point. Lamar took more sacks and fumbled way more this year, but we’re gonna say his scrambling ability is better? This is a year-to-year award and Josh is the better scrambler this year

[@tWoFrEsHmClOvIn]

@@danielfishback6348 but Josh has more interceptions then jameis Winston 😆

[@Tank-42]

Excellent objective analysis Mina !! Allen has played 13/17 games against non playoff teams

[@ScottyCof93]

I thought MVP was based on things a player can control. How on earth is his strength of schedule something he can control? He doesn't get to pick the games the Bills play. Although, something he can control is beating the very best teams he does face. (KC and Detroit) and making sure he also beats the worst teams he faces. (Undefeated against teams under 500) Can Lamar say the same? The best teams he faced were KC and Philly and the worst teams he faced were Vegas and Cleveland.

[@corrces]

​@@ScottyCof93in this case it matters because the Bills are only 2-3 vs teams currently in a playoff spot compared to 7-3 for the Ravens It leads voters to believe they're only in second place because of a significantly easier schedule, and a division with 2 teams with less than 5 wins You also can't overlook the part where Josh is significantly behind Lamar in almost every stat besides less fumbles, which can be highly attributed to the Bills superior pass-blocking, and more short rushing TDs that I don't believe voters are very high on since Hurts/Allen didn't fare so well in MVP voting in 2022 and 2023. Facing significantly weaker defenses would logically mean the gap in stats should be closer, but Lamar is putting up all-time great statistics against much tougher defenses while Josh isn't in the top 5 in most passing categories this year

[@KoinCollective]

Mina I’ve subbed wow good shit

[@lloydp3061]

This is probably one of the few shows that GM's and coaches will be interested in. These are the exact questions that have to ask themselves when thinking about the long term trajectory of their organizations. There is always going to be speculation but it's speculation based upon realistic scenarios and not on wishful thinking.

[@westdr1dw4]

As always an unbiased review of the game and future potential future. Amazing knowledge of the sport.

[@Diamondbull]

MVP ARGUMENTS There is no greater correlation between a 2 seed winning and a 3 seed nor a lower seed. MVP is dominated by “best player on best team” then followed by “historic season”, followed by “best player on best conference team” If Mahomes had Allens numbers than he would win. [MVP + Seeds 1) NFL 1 Seed: IIII/ IIII/ - Warner, LDT, Brady, Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Newton, Brady, Jackson, Rodgers, Mahomes, Jackson 2) Conf 1 Seed: IIII/ - Warner, Gannon, S. Alexander, Mahomes, Rodgers 3) Conf 2 Seed: II - Rodgers (t-best record in NFL), Ryan (historic season) 4) Conf 3-4 Seed: II - Manning*, Manning 5) Conf 5-7 Seed: IIII - Faulk, McNair*, Manning, AD] Of the only two winners of the MVP that were the #2 seed, one had a historic season in Ryan with nearly 5000 yds passing and at the time the 5th highest passer rating in NFL history. Meanwhile Rodgers was tied for the best record in the NFL, but just so happened to have the worse conference record. In addition Rodgers was 2nd in the league in total TDs, 2nd in passer rating, and 6th in total yards while no one else had similar efficiency that had bulk stats. Neither scenario is the same as Josh Allen who has the 4th best record in the NFL, is not on a historic pace, and worse yet the other player IS having a historic season… which in every other instance has won the award. Conversely we saw Manning win twice as a 3rd and 5th seed when having a historic year, he had multiple MVPs and there wasn’t talk of “MVP fatigue” when in 2004 he won his back to back MVP due to his record breaking 2004 campaign, similarly his 2003 MVP campaign was a bit of a lame duck, same as Lamar’s 2023 MVP win. We also saw with Faulk and AD win as lower seeds when having a historic season however they were RBs so it’s hard to qualify the result. Manning however won the award as the 3 seed twice and the 5th seed once. Of course Steve McNair also won the MVP as a 5th seed QB (RIP). Thus we can conclude that there is no correlation between winning the second conference seed leading to an increase in historic MVP value over any seed below. The only strong correlations are in winning your conference and having the best record in the NFL. The 2nd seed importance is a fallacy not tied to anything in recent NFL history.

[@Diamondbull]

Since the merger the Perfect Passer Rating went from: * Otto Graham- 112.1 (1946) 1. John Brodie- 93.8 (1970) 2. Roger Staubach- 104.8 (1971) 3. Dan Marino- 108.9 (1984) 4. Joe Montana- 112.4 (1989) 5. Steve Young- 112.8 (1994) 6. Peyton Manning- 121.1 (2004) 7. Aaron Rodgers- 122.5 (2011) 8. Lamar Jackson- 2024?

[@Diamondbull]

Also in weapons comparison: Amari Cooper 297 yds, 2 TDs (2024-4 GS/8 GP) 1250 yds, 5 (2023) Keon Coleman 525 yds, 4 TDs (rookie- 11GS/12GP) Khalil Shakir 821 yds, 4 TDs (2024) 611 yds, 2 TDs (2023) Mack Hollins 353 yds, 5 TDs (2024) 690 yds, 4 TDs (2022) Curtis Samuel 201 yds, 1 TDs (2024) 656 yds, 4 TDs (2022) - Current season vs recent season high - 3,207 yds, 15 TDs w/ Cooper and w/o Coleman - 1,957 yds, 10 TDs w/o Cooper and Coleman - 2,197 yds, 16 TDs (2024) Versus Zay Flowers 1047 yds, 4 TDs (2024) 858 yds, 5 TDs (2023) Rashod Bateman 680 yds, 8 TDs (2024) 515 yds, 1 TD (2021) Nelson Aghalor 231 yds, 2 TDs (2024) 381 yds, 4 TDs (2023) Tylan Wallace 193 yds, 1 TDs (2024) 33 yds, 0 TDs (2022) - Current season vs recent season high - 1,787 yds, 10 TDs (previous bests) - 2,151 yds, 15 TDs (2024) I don’t think we can really say that going into 2024 that the Ravens had this absurd WR core that looked like it was filled with studs. There was Zay we were confident in and that’s it. Bateman is a breakout player who was always hurt or dropping key passes. Bills have a better WR core top to bottom. Ravens have the better TEs, but Bills TEs are no slouch at all. Ravens better RBs. Bills better OL and better defense. I just think there’s a lot of narratives around just how bad the Bills WR core is and I don’t believe it. Cooper was just putting up 200 yd games with Flacco last year. Collins has shown he could produce elsewhere in the league. Shakir was a productive WR option last year. Coleman a talented rookie not factored into the numbers, and Samuel has been a decent #3 WR in the league at various destinations too. They didn’t have a number one going into the season, but they replaced Davis with the rookie and then traded for Cooper to replace Diggs. The notion that Allen is playing with janitors and geriatric patients is so hyperbolic.

[@truthbearer7891]

Well done. I came to same conclusion. The only correlation which is why I predicted before the season the biggest obstacle to MV3 for Lamar was voter fatigue. Sadly those two losses to Browns/Raiders along with other games Ravens beat themselves through no fault of Lamar, are probably going to lead to wasting this historic season. The argument of this being reverse of last year I honestly think for most it's just a bad faith talking point. I think a lot of ppl know the distinction between 1 seed and a team that wont even have top 3 overall record. Because they even continue to push the talking point even after you point them out. The greatest irony of all is that they try to claim Lamar's MVP case was one of weakest ever when Ravens had the highest point differential ever vs playoff teams last year. Meanwhile this year Josh Allen vs playoff teams at 2-3 has what would be the worst point differential for a solo MVP winner in history at -15. The only one worse was for McNar at -16 in 2003 who was still CO-MVP so no it's not like Manning was robbed like Jackson would be this year.

[@Diamondbull]

@@truthbearer7891 wow that’s a fantastic stat that I hadn’t considered, differential against playoff teams. But yes, I’m glad Mina at least brought up SOS and SOV into this argument, as well as DVOA. I have hope Lamar will win with both Mina and Russini leaning towards Lamar’s season… both being very educated in their takes.

[@marquistemason5684]

All this information at people’s finger tips, and yet they vote off feel. This is the best breakdown along with Mina’s that I’ve seen on the internet.

[@ljtinney]

Saquon deserves the MVP. He has accomplished 2k which so few backs have ever done. He should have more TDs if it wasn't for the Brotherly Shove. We all know if Saquon was allowed to play against the Giants in the last week he would break the record and do it in fewer carries than Dickerson. Saquon is the MVP. Plain and simple.

[@SportsSkatinandStuff]

Love that somehow Allen is being PUNISHED for helping his team get a bye week in wk 18. It’s MVP not “personal stats”

[@holpcs2]

Y'all were crying all throughout the off-season claiming Allen had better stats than Lamar last year. Don't switch up now.

[@danielfishback6348]

@@holpcs2 if we’re not gonna switch up, and Lamar won the award last year, then you would agree Josh deserves it this year? Who’s switching up??

[@sethbrown2412]

Crazy how the whole MVP criteria has changed from last years wins/eye test award.

[@Jajuan_Sanders]

I mean, the criteria just went back to normal lol Normally, the voters go off of stats and wins. But last year, no QB had great stats without a lot of turnovers. And the MVP race is a primarily QB race. No other position players were breaking the coveted stats like rushing/passing yards, or rushing/passing tds in a season. So things were funky. Things kinda went back to normal this year with stats being the major thing, with wins, and signature mvp moments being other factors. Let’s not forget strength of schedule being a factor too. 🤷🏾‍♂️ Last year was just the weird year honestly.

[@sethbrown2412]

@ coming from a bills fan. Prescotts numbers were significantly better last season on a 12-5. Just odd Lamar gets both types of treatment where I’ve had to listen for years about how much the world sporting holds against him. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Jajuan_Sanders]

@@sethbrown2412 not sure if you’re comparing Dak’s and Lamar’s stats from last year or if you’re comparing Dak’s stats from last year to Lamar’s stats from this year. Can you clarify? Voters were rough with Dak towards the end of the season though. The biggest knock from the media is that Dak and the cowboys only beat up on struggling teams. The Cowboys didn’t dominate in too many games against teams with a positive record (except the Lions and Eagles) unfortunately. Not to mention that they struggled to win on the road. So the low strength-of-schedule couples with the low strength-of-victory against good teams with good QBs was held against him. Yet, he was still in second place in MVP votes (even if they weren’t 1st-place votes. Altogether, I’d say that you can’t judge last year’s outcome as the new norm. It was an odd year. This year, things are back to normal. Josh may win! And deservedly so! Or Lamar! Who also has a great case. Either way, both are phenomenal picks and are deserving.

[@sethbrown2412]

@ comparing both guys 23 numbers. Dak was my mvp. All your points are valid…. As for this year, It’s a tough break for Josh in that his 2 best years in 20 and 24(which were amazing) have fallen against one other qb(Rodger’s and Jackson) that happens to be putting up historical numbers. Raw deal honestly.

[@jerisj.8971]

In a MVP campaign where you have two statistically similar players, people are looking outside of the stats for relativity, like who you beat, and how you beat em, or vice versa, who/how you lost. Personally i would see Lamar getting the win by stats, but next i would look at Saquon. Man rushed for 2000 yards (resting on wk 18) while essentially being shorted 10+ additional TDs at the 1 yd line from QB sneaks by hurts. By spirit of the award Saquon has a reasonable case, and i actually enjoy seeing running backs get real honors (as a Titan fan and King Henry fan)

[@AshleyFallady]

Allen also got stomped by the Ravens when that defence was the #32 ranked pass defence, we weren’t even that good then, he just stank

[@davidnewton3257]

Burrow over Goff is crazy imo. How are wins not more valuable when discussing MVP?

[@terrencemoore8739]

Burrow's statistically better, record shouldn't be held that highly in the race but you should at least make the playoffs if you're going to get it. It's the same reason why mahomes isn't higher in the race

[@user-wb5jw8df3t]

Because wins are not quarterback stat. Goff has had more bad games then Burrow has, the Lions are just a far better team.

[@dooners4274]

It was last year…

[@Darkgizmo221]

They actually talk about wins not being weighed as heavy in the video if you listen. Only one MVP voter though, others probably weigh it higher.

[@phillyfbfan]

Probably because having a bad defense all year shouldn't change your value on offense.

[@phillyfbfan]

She hasn't made up her mind but gushed about Lamar the entire time

[@codythomssen9337]

I cant remember 4 guys having mvp seasons at the same time ever.

[@BrianCGimmicks2025]

I would be salty. All are worthy. Thanks for interesting conversation Kimes/Fox.

[@pakONEoh]

"So, the idea that Lamar Jackson is so good at the stat that short changes him is like crazy!" MV3

[@gabriellongworth]

Goff n Co gives Lions a chance. Go Lions! 🦁MEOW

[@danielparsons2859]

The only statistic that really matters when evaluating quarterbacks is how many wins the team they are on has. The QB with the most wins will have other good stats but maybe not the best in many categories. The QBs job is to pilot the teams offence and if they do it well enough they win. Defences don't win games they just give the offence the chance to win games. Bad defence can lose you games however.

[@ComedianMoeBrown]

Allen MVP

[@ndantona92]

LAMAR MV3

[@OGtruthserum]

Goff MV1. Lamar runs. Goff doesn't. Goff is more valuable. He doesn't cheat. F rushing yards, that bs for a QB stats.

[@adamkadmon3857]

@@OGtruthserum also Allen should be eliminated from contention for catching a pass, and Saquon should be eliminated for hurtling in the wrong direction. Obviously all of these guys are doing football wrong ...Thank you for bringing this up OG because nobody else wants to talk about the real facts!

[@OGtruthserum]

@@adamkadmon3857 Which are?

[@adamkadmon3857]

@@OGtruthserum That if a quarterback does anything but throw passes from the pocket they should be ejected from the game of football, and possibly have thier citizenship revoked. I'm so sick of these 'QB's' running around, catching passes, and basically not being Jared Goff. Some people find those kinds of hijinx entertaining, but it is a mockery of the quarterback position. Like for example if you took away Lamar's rushing yards this year, what do you have? just look at his stats...go look at them right now, then come back and tell me.

[@jasonmahr5397]

Allen - leading a scoring offense averaging 31.8 PPG without a Derrick Henry, and with Receivers ranked in the Bottom 5 in Separation Rate. Lamar - leading a scoring offense averaging 30.2 PPG with MVP candidate Derrick Henry, and with Receivers ranked #1 in Separation Rate. This is a classic case of Josh Allen doing MORE with LESS : the very definition of the Most VALUABLE Player award. Allen also has way fewer negative plays. 8 turnovers and just 63 yards lost on 14 total sacks. Lamar has 9 turnovers and 149 yards lost on 23 total sacks. And yet Mina here still thinks Lamar is the MVP over Allen. Based solely on counting stats like TD/INT ratio and Passing Yards, and antiquated Passer Rating stat created during the Stone Ages.

[@Tank-42]

Lamar has faced the hardest schedule by facing the hardest defenses - thank u Mina Kimes Lamar 5th hardest defense Burrow 17th hardest defense Allen 19th hardest defense Passer rating : Lamar 121.6 - 2nd highest in NFL history Burrows 109.8 Allen 101.4

[@TheoneandonlyRAH]

Ohhh it's the focus. New camera?

[@Tom-V]

The Lions better lock in when they face the Vikings.

[@ImperiousRexRacing]

Lions have already beaten the Vikings. The Vikings are the ones that need to lock in.

[@cebriddel9730]

People undervalue Lamar's ability to extend plays which is why our WR get separation

[@jester1176]

I really enjoyed this conversation -- Dominique and Mina have fantastic chemistry. That said, it bothered me the entire time that Mina's camera wasn't in focus 😬

[@ComedianMoeBrown]

ALLEN MVP

[@youngsain3]

Mina the goat! Best analyst in the game 💪🏾

[@cwag07]

I think a 2-3 year deal with opt outs after that is fair for Purdy

[@mjmwise]

Mina and Domonique, I read an article today (12/31/24) that put the Steelers late season struggles squarely on Patrick Queen. Do you agree with this? If so, why?? Asking as a Ravens fan who was disappointed when the Ravens let Queen walk last off-season.

[@BKABeloved]

Regardless of whether I agree with Mina or her vote (haven’t got to that part yet) I’m happy we can see she actually gives a 🐥 enough to put the work in to come her conclusion. You can’t say the same for a lot of her colleagues.

[@postive-vibes]

With having an early season bye + so many injuries, Detroit could really use that bye in the first round for a necessary break.

[@jrkc9218]

I went from supporting Burrow to Lamar, then Mahomes, and back to Philly. Where does it end? It’s going to be a tough vote. That’s why you don’t get worked up over this-it’s completely immeasurable. If you took the star QB or RB off most teams, it’d be hard to tell who struggles more. You just can’t measure it-except maybe for teams like the Eagles, Ravens, Lions, Vikings, and Chiefs, where they’d always have a chance. Does that mean I’m pro Allen, Burrow, or Mahomes? This really is just a fantasy reward. No person picks the same stats. Every year they pick the last team to beat in the conference…..so for arrowhead faithful, that’s probably the best news of all.

[@lloydp3061]

Mina, thank you for your fabulous show. If by chance you get the opportunity to talk to John Schneider, could you please ask him to forget traditiion and forget how it's always been done and hire someone else to select and build our offensive line and it would help if the coordinator could work with whomever that might be. Defense is my favorite aspect of the game but without a top 5 offensive line, it's almost impossible to tell if you have the right QB for your system. Without a top 5 offensive line, there is no system. Without one, it's also a sure way to shorten the playing life of your talent at running back. Without that line, you very reasonably have to draft a running back with every draft. How many more seasons are we going to have to sit back and just cross our fingers in the hopes of having an offensive line that can establish and support a system that can dominate in the manner that is required in order to be successful? Isn't that the goal? How can we expect the players themselves to believe in an offensive system that has been floundering for the last 10 years. If nothing changes in who brings in the talent, they how can we expect the players to have any belief in it? Wouldn't that be kind of foolish?

[@BM-si2ei]

JJ McCarthy has spent a season under one of the best quaeterback developers in the league. The Vikings wouldn't move him for a 2nd rounder lol. They wouldn't move him for a single 1st either.

[@AdrianBurke-g2u]

1) Jayden Daniel should be in the mvp discussion because he beat the Bengals.

[@DaveBaker-d2e]

Lamar is mvp Sam is mvp of my heart ❤📯

[@lloydp3061]

For Sequon, I cannot get past that he gets one extra game to break the record....if he plays.

[@jamiesp3901]

ED had 2 extra games when he broke the record.

[@phillyfbfan]

He has less carries than Dickerson. If he had the 30 something carries then he wins it easily

[@Udertheo]

Has a Lions fan I want the number one seed and I would love home field advantage, however people keep saying the Lions need it more than other teams but they're undefeated on the road this season. The rest we need. They can win anywhere

[@Honestly__now]

Goff is the MVP

[@Richxwolf]

I can hear mina talk football all day

[@1boxcar4yu]

Stats and setting QB records do count in MVP selection. Perhaps the NFL should set more specific criteria on how to select MVPs. That said, it isn't that difficult to pick a MVP if you actually watch the games and pay attention to performances.

[@traronwongus6920]

It’s the associated press

[@ajays9936]

I really like Domonique's point on quarterbacks and being really wary to throw a way a decent one. We cardinals fans are in this right now. People are saying NOW to trade kyler. But his deal is cheapish in this final year given inflation and we have alot of cap money to trot out some better players. Was kyler a world beater in our system, no? but he played pretty decent and completed a full season (injury being a knock on him). Our sub and our beat reporters want us to trade kyler now and bring in a justin fields or something. its just such a meme - kyler is the best home grown qb our franchise has ever had and we are tied for the oldest damn franchise

[@BrianCGimmicks2025]

Do you both think Henry & play action significantly improved high percentage throws. Bigger lanes. Stacked boxes. Single coverage. Burrow hasn't done enough because record. Jackson good stats devaluing "mvp" with winning all the time. Allen has done so many abstract things that reflect 14-2!

[@epicprince8196]

NO NO NO,, where is Jared Goff at? If Detroit beats Minnesota, don't you think sweeping a historic competitive division. When has 3 teams put up 12 or more wins in a season in a division.??? and putting up the stats he's put up, having their defense injured as bad as Detroit has been. Goff Checks the plays at the line, He manages that offense, who's put up historic franchise production. The reason Detroit is as good as they are is because number 16 is the one on the field making the adjustments, making the decisions, playing at a very high level. Doesn't that deserve top 3?

[@George-gf5xs]

Has to be Sequon Barkley, the teams win/loss, his overall game average, where would the Eagles be without him

[@GoneFullTilt]

Goff

[@quijano1118]

Lamar and Josh played the same opponents twice. Lamar outperformed Josh in each of those games. The only difference was that the Bills won against the Chiefs and lost to the Texans while the Ravens did the opposite.

[@greggyfree]

Here it is...Goff is so valuable he brought his team to the NFC in-season finals with a worse defense than Cincinnati. Imagine Lamar with the Lions defense...he doesn't have the same record.

[@tkanette]

I wonder if other quarterbacks could handle having Chase and Higgins; there is a level of confidence that the OC has in Joe that may not be evident with another quarterback on a different team.

[@lennybeason1110]

The Bengals backup QUARTERBACK threw for almost 400 yards and had a perfect passer rating last season against the Jaguars in his first start after Burrow got hurt!

[@kzh7475]

If the MVP is a QB award as it has become, you need to look at the offensive skill position talent as well as the defense and the special teams-- a QB who routinely has to drive the length of the field should garner extra attention. Of all the QBs contending for the playoffs, who has less offensive talent and worse defense than Jayden Daniels? It is absolutely preposterous to hold his being a rookie against him!! No other quarterback is more valuable to his team- or even to the league- than Daniels!!

[@antoinemuhammad5501]

Doesn’t the other teams have to play defense? I love how the Entire NFL media analysis doesn’t give Detroit a chance and how can Burrow be considered MVP and Not Goff

[@Bourbakii]

Passer rating was also devalued because it gave too much credit to QBs at times when it’s really more of an offense stat. So Lamar’s is impressive but so was Brock purdys last year and no one cared. Passer rating favors the ravens offensive style, and even tho they’re almost tied in total TDs, a lot of Allen’s TDs are rushing so it’s not contributing to the passer rating formula for TD%. I think passer rating shouldn’t be a big factor here, if at all

[@Levels2TopGeeStatus]

QBR does factor it in and Lamar still leads the NFL in QBR

[@bsheaves]

Between the Lions and Vikings Sunday night, which ever team looks looser and more comfortable on offense will most likely win. I think the Lions will win a close one only because while the Lions defense will give up points and yards, they’ll trick Sam Darnold into an interception that in the game at some point. And dare I say it, Ben Johnson is Brian Flores’ kryptonite. Those defenses have never been able to stop them. It’ll be a great game if you like offense. Vegas set the over under at 57.5 and if the lions win it’ll be over

[@mrmayortheiv]

The idea that JJ McCarthy would be available for trade for a second rounder is ridiculous. I don't think we trade him under any circumstances really, but given the dearth of QBs in the draft, I'd expect a first rounder plus.

[@Jaywrites23]

Bingo

[@ayewhaddupdoe]

Ain't happening though. MN would get a 2nd at best if a team really wanted to play. GM's would look at it as "if he's good, they'd save the money and let Darnold walk".

[@Buffalo1967]

Allen has also played something like 100 less snaps than Lamar. The amount of Mitch Trubisky I’ve seen this year playing in the 4th quarter is more than expected 😂.

[@bankslaw8900]

Mitch played a lot of snaps against the Ravens too. Just something to think about

[@marvinlawrence]

Allen has like 40 more pass attempts……you tried it

[@joshuaokparaocha331]

100 less snaps and 40 more pass attempts

[@Ballin-97]

Lamar Jackson - 3 MVPs Patrick Mahomes - 2 MVPs Josh Allen - 0 MVPs Joe Burrow - 0 MVPs When you look at each player’s career stats and production, that doesn’t seem right. Lamar winning last year with average stats due to team record and then winning this year due to excellent stats that are not that much better than Burrow or Allen while having a worse team record than Allen makes Lamar an incredible benefactor of media perception and timing. I just don’t understand how Lamar can have 3 MVPs while Mahomes has less and Burrow and Allen have 0 despite having similar (or better) regular season careers. Lamar was the clear MVP in 2019, but these last 2 years are wildly inconsistent as to why he deserves MVP over other players. Last year it was about team record, but now that Allen has a better team record by 2 games, it’s about Lamar having slightly better stats? Lamar is going to be a first ballot HOF imo and he is one of my favorite players, but he isn’t more of an MVP than Mahomes and he certainly isn’t in a different tier than Allen and Burrow that a 3 MVP gap would suggest. Hopefully Lamar finally beats Mahomes in the playoffs and wins the SB to justify why he has 3 MVPs while his contemporaries who have better career stats and more playoff success have less or none at all.

[@jksdfgbaslkdfjasfdsdasdgasdfga]

ahahahahahahah lamarrs a bum w/o henry lmafo

[@FlowSwitchMusic]

MVPs have nothing to do with superbowl wins. MVP is about dominating in the regular season. The reason it doesn’t feel right is because there is a 0 next to Josh’s name even though he has consistently has great seasons. He’s just never had the best season. That’s why.

[@jksdfgbaslkdfjasfdsdasdgasdfga]

@@FlowSwitchMusic except for the fact that he has sat out come sunday 8 4th 1/4s and whole game sunday... so basical hes play 2/3s of the season considering in blowouts its garbage time TDs... he never has the best season for that reasone alone.... but he broke the record for 4k yards and 40 TDs in a season 5 TIMES IN A ROW never been done......hes the most consistent to ever do it.... most TDs in his first 8 seasons over EVERY NFL QB.. AND HE SHOULD HAVE MORE!!!!!..... you know it when the bills are rolling they roll in all 3 phases becasue josh makes a crazy play and fires them up and the game ends very quickly ...... lamar stat pads. has 10 tds on the 1/2 yardliune casue they playcall for him to get stats the coach liteterally admited it!!!!!!!!!!!!!......i mean come on allen coulda QB sneak last game for a TD but he gave his 900 yard running back another one making hime have more TDs than a guy who has 1800 yards (derrick henry) the amount of disrespect on king henry is wild....how is he not in the race for OPOY such a joke... lmfao what are we talking bout ... lamar might not be the mvp of his team...... his Wrs are crazy.. his Tes is crazy. ravens fans go home and cry ..... allens winning it this year.....!!!!!!

[@eugenejohnson1867]

@@jksdfgbaslkdfjasfdsdasdgasdfga Lamar also sat out a crap ton last season anyway which hurt his stats LAST SEASON as well due demolishing so many teams. You have to objective here and apply these situations to all QB's.

[@Ballin-97]

@@eugenejohnson1867 Lamar hasn’t been better this year than Allen. Allen’s 13 wins 41 TDs and 8 turnovers is arguably better than Lamar’s 11 wins, 43 TDs and 9 turnovers. And Burrow’s 8 wins, 44 TDs and 13 turnovers is right there too. There isn’t some clear gap. It’s essentially a toss up, where we’re nitpicking stats out of context (opponent quality, game scripts, weather, key teammate injuries, etc). All 3 deserve MVP tbh, but to say Lamar is clearly better than Allen this year when their stats are very similar and Allen’s team has 2 more wins ISN’T objective. It indicates that you’re a Lamar or Ravens fan who will find the narrative for Lamar

[@BrianCGimmicks2025]

Detroit playing Minnesota twice. And beating Green Bay twice the Texans; also, San Fransico played well against Detroit. They looked like the 49ers in nfc championship last year.

[@AdamCobbins]

J.Borrow MVP big Dawg, like how he blames his self but we know... 🏈

[@BrianCGimmicks2025]

Sam Donald still has room to grow. He barely used J.J!

[@ultracure]

I've been saying this since Purdy got into the QB1 slot for the Niners. He's literally Jeff Garcia 2.0. Same performance and trajectory. Dude is serviceable, especially in Shanahan's bubble screen and slant driven offense. But when they get down early, and have to throw the ball downfield with no run threat, they are in trouble. I've seen this play out w/ Jeff Garcia and to me, Purdy is no different. History is repeating itself and the Niner fans are acting like they have something different. It's cute. WAKE UP!!!

[@bcamm3100]

signature wins should factor in opponents record.

[@Alex-tl6vz]

Herbert put up impressive regular season numbers and carried his team to the brink of playoffs in 2021. Similar narrative to Burrow this season. Both impressive but not MVP.

[@crustybs46]

Not including rushing epa and fumbles in this conversation with lamar as it's quote on quote leader statistically is absolutely crazy malpractice mina holy shit. Allen is leading in epa/play regardless of where you check.

[@billdew945]

Burrow got sacked 7 times and kept getting up in Denver game. He had 3 drives to win game except his kicker sucks Look how many TDs he had against Ravens

[@bankslaw8900]

Lamar had a perfect passer rating game against Denver. Just something to think about

[@bcamm3100]

@@bankslaw8900I think he's had 3 this yr

[@bankslaw8900]

@ yep, or has gotten really close. I know he holds the record

[@mrblitzer8705]

Who is this guy? I like his takes.

[@TonyJones-b8r]

Goff the real MVP, i hate they vote popular player

[@timoclark]

Hightly disagree that 'CIN WRs are the 2 best.' Jettas is WR1 in the league. No one changes the field like Jefferson does. No one else gets double teamed to the degree he does.

[@Commander_Ray]

Tee Higgins about to be the highest paid WR in NFL history Kraft's money well spent

[@djlongway666]

Mina got sense

[@winthorpetrois]

Purdy has had three seasons.