Listener Calls In To Debate MR’s Ukraine coverage

A listener calls in to voice that he thinks US aid to Ukraine is useless.
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[@justinmillette9110]

12:26 "Every President elected after Zelensky is gonna be a member of Azov." The caller is just mainlining that Russian propaganda. Firstly, the Azov battalion has been destroyed as a military force, so it would be great if people could stop mentioning them in their talking points. Secondly, the political opinions of the most extreme members of the Azov battalion are deeply unpopular in Ukraine. The far-right party got 3% of the vote in the last Ukrainian elections. Thirdly, populations don't forevermore pick their democratic leaders based purely on war record. Winston Churchill was voted out of office shortly after the end of WW2. In peacetime, Ukraine will pick a peacetime President; probably somebody with a good record of anti-corruption, who promises to rebuild the country with the help of Western allies.

[@jcrover7729]

Yeah that was the moment he lost any sense of remaining credibility he had, which was almost zero.

[@hellious7670]

Azov were reformed into a larger generic military unit before the war even started. Still only numbering a couple of thousand if I recall. Regular people though at that point, not ideologically driven. I think combined the far right got 2% of the vote, i'm sure they'd get more in wartime but not much.

[@user-cn8vj5rs5c]

Most informed tankie

[@hellious7670]

​@@daniels.1746 I am sure in war time everyone leans being crazier. Like you say they were reformed before the war started to be a regular army unit, their leader left to try politics and didn't do well. They took massive casualties on top of that. The conspiracy perpetuated by Russia and people listening to Russian's DRIVES ME NUTS. Thank you for being someone who knows a bit more about it than most.

[@growupjohnny9374]

I cannot believe this caller. He is so wrong.

[@davidwong5197]

Well, Ukraine is complicated. Ukraine is an ass hole and so is Russia, So when two of them fight why should we get involve. Let's say if China invades N. Korea should we send military sid to N. Korea?

[@xiaoka]

It makes no difference to him if Russia destroys Ukraine and kills hundreds of thousands of people… who are not him.

[@Nerd_Detective]

His bias is shown from the Azov comment. He thinks that the Ukrainian defense is hopeless because he believes Russian propaganda. He believes Azov (a stand in for the far-right) is politically viable for the *presidency* in Ukraine because of Russian propaganda. He thinks the outcome of no aid (Ukraine being conquered) will be okay for Ukraine because he believes Russian propaganda. Look back in history to see how kind and gentle Russia is to Ukraine as a client state. It's not anti-war to stand by and hope we get it all over with (that is, the invader hurries up and conquers their target) so that there isn't a war anymore. That's a *pro-war* position, because a world where it's wrong to stand up to aggressors is a world where empires have their pick of any smaller country to roll tanks into. The only people who can stop this war are the Russians. All we can do is help the Ukrainians to defend themselves until Russia decides the blood and treasure they're spending to conquer their neighbor isn't worth it. Sadly that's how wars of imperialism go. Either the empire conquers land, or the defender drives them out. The world is morally obligated to make it unpalatable for empires to invade other countries.

[@MSCCA]

The US should take a hard stance against the far-right because post-war Ukraine would be at risk of falling to fascism if economic conditions are bad. Historically, the US loves supporting the far-right in other countries.

[@nerag7459]

I don't get this argument. If Ukrainian defeat is inevitable what's his problem?

[@tusk6489]

The caller is the real definition of a Nazi, how ironic

[@nancy.dave.williams]

Imagine if the US was invaded and your best ally drops you. I think his opinion would be much different

[@deltablueprint3186]

That's exactly how Trump thinks. He demands absolute loyalty from everyone around him, but will drop them like bags of flaming poop, as soon as they get the nerve to ask HIM for help.

[@norikadolmy7274]

I think people in ukraine would probably disagree with this caller

[@orbatos]

Amazing how many people don't understand that Ukraine is asking for this. And the implication that Azov people are controlling any of this is straight from Russian propaganda.

[@lets_architecture]

@@orbatos Azov is 500-2500 people, thats 0.35% of the Ukrainian military, not to mention the police and SBU (FBI equivalent).

[@jcrover7729]

I live in Kyiv and I can tell you that those Patriots and other US aid are keeping civilians alive. The caller doesn’t have a very good understanding of the whole picture.

[@Dankatron69]

From your perspective, were the majority of you in favor of recieving cluster munitions? The US media pretty much said it was a divisive issue everywhere including Ukraine but i have a feeling that most Ukrainians were in favor of recieving the cluster bombs because Russia had already been using much high dud rate cluster bombs since the start of the war.

[@AmandaTroutman]

Stay safe

[@jcrover7729]

@@Dankatron69 I am not Ukrainian, so I am unable to speak directly for them, but I think there was overwhelming support on this issue. Cluster munitions have proven quite effective on or near the line of contact. They have only been used on military targets by Ukrainians (obviously). However, I have seen the damage caused by them when used on civilian targets by the Russians.

[@adotjon78]

​Oh, We get it... But we can't send missiles and aid forever. And they can't seem to gain any of their ground back. The US tends to abandon our allies that can't win. The clock is ticking. Time to make a deal with Russia... That's the BIG picture.

[@FelixDaleth]

@@Dankatron69 It wasn't divisive in Ukraine at all. The majority of population isn't military-minded and isn't aware of global reservations about using cluster munitions. Ukraine is starving for artillery shells, and cluster munitions quickly proved to be effective, so they are even more welcome now. It's a fight for national survival, everybody's cognizant of that, so every bit of military aid is welcome.

[@Gabthelazy]

Lots of people don't know or omit that the United States had made a commitment to Ukraine's defense in case of a Russian invasion when Ukraine gave up their nukes in the 90s.

[@KomradeKrusher]

Believe me, they know. They just feel we shouldn't feel beholden to such commitments. Tells you a lot more about them.

[@aheroictaxidriver3180]

Ukraine should have given up their nukes anyway. They're weapons of genocide. "We should support them because they gave up their ability to incinerate people."

[@aheroictaxidriver3180]

@@KomradeKrusher Keep pretending you are morally justified to support bombing children rather than hacking them up.

[@mj2carlsbad]

​@@KomradeKrusherI didn't know.

[@sunshynff]

I just popped in to mention that, I agree! @KomradKrusher.... Who is "they"? The caller, or our (U.S.) government?? For the sake of the discussion between Sam and the caller, and others online who debate this issue, whether our government wants to feel beholden or not, I'm surprised that fact is left out of so many conversations is all I'm saying. It was in 1994, The Budapest Memorandum, and it was a BIG commitment we made, the Soviet collapse hadn't happened that long ago, and Ukraine found themselves with quite the stockpile of nukes, Putin was already starting to F with them and the nukes were the ONLY thing giving him pause from doing a full invasion. THEN.....The U.S./Clinton said hey hey hey, calm down, relax, give us the nukes and we'll make Putin promise to leave u alone. Ukraine said F**K YOU, like you can trust him. We're like ok, give us the nukes, we'll make Putin sign this treaty, we'll give ya a bunch of non nuclear weapons for a military starter kit, send you a few bucks every year to train and build a military, and we promise if Putin starts messing with you, us and NATO will come back and kick his ass. As far as I know there was no time limit or date of expiration on the Budapest Memorandum, so I don't know how long we should or shouldn't feel beholden to protect them either

[@abigfavor]

"You guys are wrong about X" are always bad calls. There's no specific thing he wants to critique, so he just starts grasping at straws. "Every preident after Zelensky is going to be Azov" is the most telling statement.

[@KomradeKrusher]

Not even Azov is Azov anymore. How many of them are left? While the self-ascribed Neo-Nazi paramilitary organization "Wagner" actually made a power grab in Russia.

[@bereal6590]

Problem is all the stuff out there people can watch which is disinformation. I landed on some whe the conflict began and at first I believed what they were pushing but I always dig into things watch different stuff and viewpoints. Literally when you do that it all falls I tk place and you can work out what's fictional propoganda. Right wingers though actively land on that stuff, it meets their own worldviews so they're 100%sold on the idea. Black and white blinkered thinking, they have no critical thinking

[@johnsushi2007]

Well they’re wrong so often that I’m surprised every call doesn’t start this way

[@abigfavor]

Only if the caller is a fool XD@@johnsushi2007

[@Zarastro54]

@@johnsushi2007b8

[@Bunke09]

Putin would love this caller.

[@R4NDLL]

He was probably paid by Russian FSB operatives to make this call.

[@MissyGail4eva]

Putin doesn't love anything but himself... and _maybe_ his horse. (No worries, Vaush already stipulated they're not his type, either one of them)

[@sunshynff]

If this caller doesn't realize the odds stacked against Ukraine before the invasion, and that most analysts and military experts were estimating the time until Russia had total control in weeks, not months, and that without us sending them some minimal care packages in the beginning, Ukraine would now be Western Russia. He should probably also google the 1994 Budapest Memorandum before he goes and champions dropping all aid.

[@billy3603]

The caller wants to live in a world where military aid ends in hugs and dropping a nuclear bomb gives the sun a smiley face and create teletubbies. Sorry man.

[@the0ne809]

C'mon. Everbody knows every country with nukes should be able to invade their weaker neighbors and annex them. This should be the norm.

[@johnsushi2007]

No they want to live in a world where US imperialism isn’t the dominating force in the world and where their propaganda isn’t uncritically swallowed by everyone

[@billy3603]

@@the0ne809 There’s no realm in which we did not send military aid to an ally whose suffered civilian casualties from a known terrorist org. (I’m saying this as someone on the side of Palestinian( PEOPLE)). Name your favorite most liberal politician and make them president in this scenario and we would end up sending aid. My issue is with people wanting to live in a country that is a world super power but wanting us to act like White baby jesus. It’s not going to happen. You can whine and groan all you want. This doesn’t mean that Israel hasn’t been out of control and committed war crimes and Net&Yahoo’s(Can’t spell it, not gonna try) regime and many that came before brought this on the country. That’s all true. I’m just saying, we are going to keep sending aid and this entire argument from the caller is dumbbbbbbbbbb. Doesn’t mean its right.

[@the0ne809]

@@billy3603 I was being sarcastic. I support sending more military aid to Ukraine and I support Palestinian people (not Hamas) I wish these types of conflicts were a thing of the past but we have too many crazy people around the world.

[@WobblyBits_X]

"Every president after Zelensky is going to be a member of Azov" - guy who says sending military aid is bad because we cant know the ultimate outcome

[@mgriff0309]

It’s like saying every Palestinian is Hamas when that’s not the case. Not even close to every Ukrainian is a Nazi loving Azoz member. Curious certain leftists cannot connect these dots. Propaganda is powerful.

[@orionthanathos8861]

But the alternative is even worse, World War 3 is something no one especially the ignorant GOP could handle.

[@ezachleewright2309]

LMAO

[@everready59]

This is why we are in so much trouble now---Armchair Neville Chamberlains.

[@JohnDoe-my5ip]

Implying zelensky isn’t a member of Azov. Zelensky, who saluted a member of the Waffen SS at the Canadian parliament. Zelensky, who has given awards to Azov leaders. Zelensky, who refuses to condemn Stepan Bandera and his gang of genocidal Nazi collaborators. Never mind condemn, zelensky’s government has replaced statues honoring the Red Army liberators with statues of Banderites!

[@exiledfrommyself]

I'm for military intervention when a country that's being invaded asks for our help. To me it's the moral thing to do. The caller seems like he's not for any military intervention so there's no purpose in discussing it.

[@KomradeKrusher]

Exactly. It's a coward's idea of "pacifism". If you're not willing or able to protect the ones who can't protect themselves when they ask you for help, you've forfeited all self attested moral high ground.

[@jlblost]

Help automatically equals military? Sanctions to reduce the saftey and health of the russian people? Where's the fucking diplomacy? Blind unwavering anything is inherently stupid and immoral.

[@jlblost]

You're litterally stuck forever supporting the blowback of every bullshit intervention that happens, no matter the causes or facts... There is no emphasis on what is best for the majority of humans in any involved country at all.. And your debate never moves beyond, "send more bombs no matter whatc

[@craighofmann638]

It's the "Superman dilemma," if you're strong enough and possess special capabilities to help, then you should.

[@sunshynff]

I agree, and so do most of my fellow Americans, which confuses me why them and Biden are supporting Putin....oops, I mean Netanyahu, and his authoritarian regime, bigger power gap, more egregious oppression of a lesser nation, yet the U.S. is like, YAY go team inflict massive human suffering, lets see those big ol' muscles.

[@ComradeCatpurrnicus]

"The jury/historians are still out on whether the Ukrainian people deserve help defending against fascist imperialism." I noticed he didn't give a single good argument, just vague dispersions and a very clear indifference to the suffering and terror brought against the innocent Ukrainians. I feel like a lot of your questions hinge on him actually caring about Ukrainians, but I don't think he has much care about what they're going through.

[@tusk6489]

This caller is a psychopath he lacks even 0.1% of empathy he straight up said he doesn't care if Ukraine gets annihilated all he wants is Aid to stop like WTF

[@MATT-2042]

This caller is disturbing his intellectual understanding of reality is so distorted. The world around him must be so terrifying for this level of distortion.

[@tusk6489]

The caller lacks 0 empathy and has the mind if a psychopath he straight up said he doesn't give a shit about Ukraine his only objective is to stop aid because Ukraine is run by Nazis.

[@BosskV2]

"Quality of life" for Ukrainians in 2035 would be utterly abysmal without US / Western support. This caller has not convinced me of one single thing.

[@xGribbles]

I got his point to a degree up until this. Without a doubt US support would aid Ukrainian lives.

[@BosskV2]

@@xGribbles ...I think hes probably just anti-foreign aid in general. We get people like that over here in Britain too. Its very frustrating.

[@BosskV2]

@user-xs3fr6qd1q ...I'm not sure what a tankie is but I'm definitely liberal... in the sense that I stand up for basic human rights, the rule of law and democracy.

[@donovan4222]

?? What does this mean, Ukraines quality of life has been going downhill since the USSR breakup

[@BosskV2]

@@donovan4222 ...don't be ridiculous

[@oscarwarren9709]

The caller wants Ukraine to get annihilated and taken over by Russia, the way most people thought it would. He was just beating around the bush.

[@framazz7575]

Most people where? Not here in Europe, we know that people in the US are under informed and undereducated, and what most US citizens think is irrelevant to the eyes of the world

[@donovan4222]

Kind of like how most Americans want Palestine to get annihilated and taken over by Israel. Where is the NATO support for Palestine?

[@orbatos]

I don't get that impression, they are just completely poisoned on the idea of intervention on behalf of allies at all. They seem to think that so military aid is controlled by the CIA among other things, which is inane. They also don't seem to understand there are obligations being satisfied here.

[@tusk6489]

most of these losers who praised Russia over the years just don't want to admit that they were wrong about Vlad being a good boy, they rather see Ukraine destroyed and enslaved than admit they were completely wrong

[@huizdacheeze]

Exactly.

[@elleaubry3772]

Why do people think if we don’t help another country that the government will put that money to use helping the citizens of the United States? Isn’t anyone paying attention to the Republican party cutting every benefit that helps an American citizen?

[@MickGallJr]

This has always baffled me

[@R4NDLL]

This guy has been drinking the Russian Kool Aid.

[@THESocialJusticeWarrior]

Caller works for Putin or is working for free.

[@johnnyscarecrow71]

We can't know the outcome of any military action in advance, so we should NEVER get involved to protect ourselves and our allies? The caller makes no sense.

[@ZACHANDJACKSZACHSMAFIA]

No its the argument of "why give weapons to either side just to have the enemy become our problem after" never pick a side in a war that has NOTHING to do with America, nor include youself in something that has NOTHING to do with YOU -Jack

[@NJ-wb1cz]

Why didn't US give military aid to Armenia then to help them protect themselves? They lost a territory, very few people died, and now the peace agreement is impending. If US was giving just enough aid to Armenia, the war and death could've been going on to this day. Wouldn't that be a moral and righteous choice, if you like Armenians?

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

How dare you prepare for things ahead of time!

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

​@@NJ-wb1czbuddy they adressed that point. Watch the Video before commenting

[@johnnyscarecrow71]

@@ZACHANDJACKSZACHSMAFIA That's a reasonable argument to present, but that was not the gist of this caller's message.

[@bobbyboy1797]

Could've sworn I've seen this title at least 10 times.

[@gooadam]

Debate bro caller wants to make opinions outside of a moral framework. That's just nihilism.

[@bobbyboy1797]

20 minute video was released 13 minutes ago with your comment being less than 4 minutes old. Shouldn't you watch the whole video?

[@russellward4624]

​@bobbyboy1797 but we know his argument 3mns in. It doesn't change and he doesn't provide any justifications.

[@ZACHANDJACKSZACHSMAFIA]

Morality, is how people died in Vietnam. Its how our children were sent to die for nothing. -Jack

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

​@@ZACHANDJACKSZACHSMAFIA jackshit

[@adotjon78]

Morality is subjective... Its subjectivity can kill people.

[@jonathanwilliams9665]

How come every time I hear anyone having this debate the will of the people of Ukraine is literally never talked about

[@johnwhite7218]

These people only care about their opinions. Why should a woman make the most difficult choice of their life, when I already know what the right choice is? Why are gay people getting married, I know they don’t actually love each other because Jesus or whatever. They’re so narcissistic they can’t even hear how stupid they sound. This is the result of capitalism, constant selfishness where vapid arrogance is just as valid as any fact

[@BigBlueBrooklynZoo]

It's a great question, I think it's because generally the viewpoint of US commentary is often seen through the lense of previous US military involvement in other countries, which is notably quite negative and damaging. Who cares if a flawed but undoubtedly Liberal democracy that the US committed to helping wants our help against an imperialistic and fascist regime, America bad. View in Europe is much different. I think Sam and Emma's take is getting progressively better. War is currently inevitable. Some support is justified. This is one of those instances.

[@donovan4222]

Because the US doesn’t involve itself anywhere based on “the will of the people”

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

​@@donovan4222thats doesnt change that it is a point in favor why we should help. How is it of relevancy why the us did ever do sth.

[@exiledfrommyself]

@@donovan4222Regardless of our intention, the will of the people of Ukraine is that they need any military and financial help they can get the fight off the invaders. They are grateful for the world's help.

[@dansweeney9377]

The Azov statement showed his true colors. But why is this being rehashed right now? There is so much important stuff happening right now.

[@ArdenJ]

The Ukraine War is incredibly important. Like Sam said, if we stopped funding Ukraine, Russia would annihilate and takeover. Do not forget the sovereignty of the Ukrainian people.

[@RedXlV]

The Ukraine war is just as important as ever.

[@bw9040]

He supports the right for Ukraine to defend itself but not for us to give them the capacity to. Interesting take.

[@davidwong5197]

There was a peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia before US intervened. This war would not happen without US aid.

[@gramdoherty4170]

He’s a do nothing. His dream is to circle jerk in A commune until an organized group comes and brings him a dose of reality

[@jaefrmbk2k]

like how the whole team handled that. calmly walked him through his only semi-fleshed out thoughts 😄👍🏾

[@jacobusary9157]

Just because something travels through channels you disagree with doesn't mean their purpose can't ultimately, even incidentally, acheive a moral purpose.

[@ZACHANDJACKSZACHSMAFIA]

Moral purposes was the reason Nixon was elected and made EVERY decision he did while in office -Jack reaizes this is just a 2nd Vietnam war, like the last its meant to distract you from OUR REAL PROBLEMS WE DEAL WITH NOW IN AMERICA

[@tylerrobinson7257]

Ask your average Ukrainian civilian if they give a shit about what this caller is saying and I think we all know the answer.

[@fnyquist8779]

Yeah the fact that military aid benefits the US military industrial complex is not an argument against it being helpful to the Ukrainians.

[@RyanRoberson-gc1op]

​@@fnyquist8779except that Ukraine cant win this and our leaders know this.

[@robertoshevchenko]

@@tylerrobinson7257 Am average Ukrainian civilian, can confirm. Couldn;t give less of a shit.

[@nancy.dave.williams]

2035!!!! By his metrics now, Ukraine shouldn’t get aide from the US. There wouldn’t be a Ukraine by 2027.

[@PACABear]

The title of this video should be "Listener calls in to not make a point "

[@DRChupacabrah]

big time

[@beansnrice321]

Wow, this guy is a dope right out the gate. XD

[@user-mm5wn1qk8j]

This caller is a traitor. Period.

[@nancy.dave.williams]

He seems to not accept there are treaties, agreements, obligations and definitely legal obligations since 1991. 2 countries guaranteed Ukraine. The United States and the United Kingdom. He’s talking about our “current institutions “ that he can’t even name. He pivots to Haiti because he doesn’t have a coherent understanding. And he’s comparing a country that was invaded against a earthquake stricken country with a history of gang violence. That’s comparing a house fire to a mass shooting

[@MissyGail4eva]

Exactly, for all of the caller's rhetoric regarding his misgivings in trusting the U. S. military's long-term agenda, he is largely ignoring an extremely relevant fact: The primary reason Ukraine is no longer a nuclear power, with at least a modicum of holding their own against Russia, is because of their voluntary dismantling of their nuclear program at the behest of the western powers. In turn, the United States entered a pact to protect and defend Ukraine from any external forces got threatened to contest their sovereignty. By rejecting their sworn duty to uphold this promised protection would make the US a dishonest actor, the very thing of which the caller is so concerned.

[@nancy.dave.williams]

To the caller: how will Ukraine fight their war without foreign help? He thinks the outcome of this war doesn’t matter to American security? Really!?

[@adotjon78]

Yes, Really. Russia is not a threat to the homeland. If for no other reason than Mutually Assured Destruction...they don't threaten us.

[@djmetcalf3815]

Dude just doesn’t give a fuck what happens to Ukraine and is trying to find a political reason to have no empathy.

[@82seno]

The US helped Croatia massively in the mid90s by providing intelligence so that they could re-occupy the land that got stolen by the serbs with minimal civilian casualties...I'm no big friend of US foreign policy but there are cases where they did good

[@HM-hu4hu]

Jesus Christ. This caller had no moral compass.

[@oolong2]

It's rather arrogant to assume you know what's best for another country and the people who live there. It reminds me of someone refusing to give money to a homeless guy because you think giving them money does more harm than good. Ukrainians are not fighting for their country because of aid, they are fighting for their country because it's their country.

[@dusty4047]

Caller quote: The "invasion" happened I "prefer" it didn't.....well wouldn't we all LOL But if they do not get help Russia will not stop there ( PERIOD)

[@RyanRoberson-gc1op]

Domino theory? They told that lie about Vietnam. Remember?

[@abigfavor]

Maybe you aren't old enough to drink, but this isn't the first, second, or third Russia has done this in my life time@@RyanRoberson-gc1op

[@samuelvimes5770]

@@RyanRoberson-gc1op damn right, there hasn´t been a single invasion of neighboring countries since comrade Vlad took over ....

[@FelixDaleth]

@@RyanRoberson-gc1op Ryabkov - an official Russian representative at the negotiation table - literally demanded that "NATO packed their #@%$ and #@$^ed off to 1997 borders" before the invasion. Now imagine that Russian army rolls over Ukraine and parks itself next to the Baltics in April 2022 in full combat readiness.

[@emmanuelmacedo1095]

It’s so odd whenever anyone makes the following kind of argument: “ I don’t know if X will help, so my default is to not do it” This is odd because your default is answering in the negative, you are answering the question: you are saying “it won’t help” Whenever you claim I don’t know X. Don’t then say “but I do know” or “ I will take this or that action” You just said you don’t know. Lol

[@HollowApollo1]

Caller's mask came off once he made that azov claim.

[@millej11]

Isn't Ukraine a US ally? Why wouldn't someone help their friend when they needed it?

[@johnsushi2007]

You think the US keeps good bedfellows?

[@millej11]

@@johnsushi2007 Yeah typically

[@chrisdalton8221]

I didnt see any pushback on this and Im curious if anyone can educate me here. Wtf does he mean the US didnt help at all in Korea. Can we not say that South Korea is better than North Korea? Do we really think SK would have been able to defend themselves against NK and the chinese without international intervention?

[@RedXlV]

Yeah, I can't understand why Sam just let that go unanswered.

[@growupjohnny9374]

We didn’t have agreement for defense for giving up the third largest stockpile of nukes with the other countries.

[@sunshynff]

Bingo!!! 1994, Clinton and The Budapest Memorandum, they were the new kid on the block and the biggest bully in the neighborhood was already picking on them, I wouldn't want to give up my nukes either, unless a friendly(ꜱᴏᴍᴇᴛɪᴍᴇꜱ) cop made me a big promise to keep the bully away from me.

[@justinfaulkner4663]

This discussion elides the fact that Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine

[@xiaoka]

So bold of him to say that the military aid has no positive outcome… for him.

[@xtscarfacem8255]

Not giving aid to Ukraine will NOT solve your housing crisis, your social issues or anynother problems you have at home.... but it will definitely affect your economy.

[@rini6]

I grew up in Bergen county NJ. Yay north NJ!

[@grapes9h5]

Caller is major feelings over facts guy.

[@framazz7575]

Putin's lovers should not be given free airtime

[@HalcyonAndroid]

you can check in on the ukrainians in 2035 if you want. assuming they win the war they probably will be in a pretty bad economic condition. but you cant say they would have been better off without the aid. for one you have no idea what it would have been like without the aid because we already supplied it. and for 2 we already know the brutality of the russian forces in the regions so it suggests to me a more helpless ukraine would be a more victimized ukraine.

[@sifunmon]

This caller is living in a dreamworld. Or he just doesn’t care about genocide in Ukraine committed by Russian soldiers

[@beansnrice321]

Both.

[@NJ-wb1cz]

How will more death of many more Ukrainians for months and years going to resurrect previously dead Ukrainians? What's your thinking about this, really? This is a territorial war now, not a war for survival. Ukraine doesn't want to give up the territories it doesn't currently control, that's it. Ukraine openly declares that it doesn't want peace unless it conquers back everything. The goal isn't protection of anyone, just potential recapture of land in exchange for death

[@sunshynff]

Wonder where the caller stands on supporting -̶P̶u̶t̶i̶n̶....Netanyahu and Israel??

[@samuelvimes5770]

Probably because those ukrainian civilian building keep jumping in front of the russian missiles.... /s

[@lord6617]

This caller is a child, with a child's conception of the world. The times things have gone really badly for the USA in its "support" of conflicts have almost entirely been when the USA goes cowboy into conflicts with no, or limited, world support. Second Iraq war, extended deployment in afghanistan, Vietnam, multiple conflicts where it is USA troops on the ground where they aren't wanted and aren't supported. The contrast to those are conflicts where there is worldwide, and usually UN sanctioned, support. The classic example is WW2. There was UNIVERSAL condemnation of Russia's invasion in the UN, AFRICA condemned Russia - Over and over I go back to the Kenyan UN Representative's Address at the outset of the war. And there aren't even USA troops in the conflict. This caller is just so sheltered and privileged.

[@aheroictaxidriver3180]

Whereas adults accept as a fact murder for resources forever and ever. One person has a peaceful fairy tale, and the other person has a violent fairy tale. Who do you think is the better person?

[@FelixDaleth]

@@aheroictaxidriver3180 I think the person with a peaceful fairy tale will get mugged by a bully, and the world is a better place when we stand up to bullies.

[@DRChupacabrah]

matt taibi with the scream voice changer over here

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

Is Putin not planning to reestablish the borders of the former Warsaw Pact? I think that's his ultimate goal.

[@steveprocter6241]

Do whatever it takes to thwart Putin's fascist imperialist and genocidal ambitions.

[@mp5856a]

That caller is just isolationist. Not even supporting our treaty obligations when asked.

[@AceofDlamonds]

Natsec/CIA scarephrase invoked in the very first sentence. "Nothing good will come of it". Gawd SO PREDICTABLE...

[@hochmeisterr]

Well i see videos of patriot bateries intercepting rockets daily so i dont see what he is talking about.

[@Roger-Verbal-Kint]

He "can't know" whether Ukrainians liberating and taking back 50% of their land that Russia had land-grabbed is a good or a bad thing (especially seeing the scale of Russian war crimes in liberated areas), and at one point says "doesn't matter" when pressed. Yikes. Says a lot about you, dude.

[@thenewmase]

"Uhm...but have you thought that America bad?"

[@Sohbek]

While the concern of the US using a new battlefield to test out new technology is a valid one....We literally haven't done that. This is a silly point to make. We have given Ukraine tech that is generally around 20-30 years old, from the early 2000's and the 90's. Please, FFS, you need to work on your ability to absorb information that we have, that's available, about the Ukraine conflict. This is not a difficult issue.

[@brianj.4890]

How does the caller go through life without a spine and no moral compass?

[@jimleon6634]

I think the caller missed the chance to connect the dot. It's not simply that "the U.S. has an abysmal record of having it's aid used for good", but it's that "the U.S. has an abysmal record of having given aid to governments/movements that are fascist, anti-worker, pro-neoliberal, and willing to act as spearheads of U.S. capitalists geopolitical domination agenda". Ukraine absolutely fits the latter description on all counts. Is it "defending itself"? Of course, it was invaded. Would you likely support a response from your government in the same situation? Almost certainly. Who wouldn't? But, the callers initial hunch is spot on: I have absolutely no doubt that history will show that, despite Russia's culpability for having invaded and despite an understandable sympathy with the Ukrainian resistance because of the invasion, Ukraine was nothing more than another chess-piece on the side of capitalist global hegemony fighting against independent nationalist regimes who were seeking to end U.S. capitalists crushing dominance over them.

[@michaelhutchings6602]

If Russia was being crushed by US US capitalism they would be far richer and freerer.

[@brett-gx3fw]

This guy is out of his mind. I'm sick of tankies that give progressives a bad name. Ukraine should be able to defend themselves against imperialist Russia.

[@WestLightz]

Yeah its been pretty eye opening for me to see how many people who purport to be anti imperialists out themselves on this. Seems like they aren't against imperialism but just "the west" and being anti imperialist is only a useful tool for them to criticize america/nato. A few years ago I would have said that's just a right wing portrayal of the far left but it seems true to an extent.

[@joshbell5387]

It's because you don't live in reality, you live in a marvel movie perception of the world where historical context, and geopolitics dont exist, where THIS time around America is ACTUALLY defending democracy. From where I'm standing it looks like the west is about to drop support and will leave Ukraine in a worse position then it was a month in when negotiations had potential but was shut down by the west. What will your assessment be when Ukaine is forced to capitulate anyway, "well at least we tried" after a million Ukrainian dead? I say you either go to the front or stop cheerleading Ukrainians getting dragged off the street to be thrown at the Russian war machine which is only getting stronger by the day.

[@RedXlV]

@@WestLightz They literally think it's impossible for "eastern" nations to be imperialist. That's how stupid such people are.

[@dusty4047]

Caller was all speculation and NO facts...what a waste of 19:46

[@godofspacetime333]

He just doesn’t like it and doesn’t really know why. Hasn’t given it much more thought than that. I mean sure, in an ideal world we wouldn’t be sending billions in weapons and aid to help fend off a Russian invasion, and no one would profit from war, but that’s not the world we live it unfortunately. Given the facts, though, it seems that helping Ukraine right now is the best thing for both Ukraine and the free world, and we are in the position to do so. AND btw are kind of morally obligated to considering the agreements we made with them 30 years ago that cover this exact scenario.

[@sempressfi]

Lol the whole "every president after zelensky being a member of azov" made me chuckle because the guys who founded Azov were kicked out, started their own political party, and havent been able to gain more than 1-2% in elections

[@MissyGail4eva]

God dang tankies...🤮

[@transfurom]

Quality of life in 2035 is we r all ethnically genocided

[@eduardorivera8996]

This guy is a 100% a Hasan watcher lmao

[@kaminarinoyouni2311]

Got to say that this is a ridiculous conversation. If we don't know if it will help, don't help is his default. So by that logic a fireman outside your house while the house on fire not knowing if you can save you should not try. Or in Ukraine's example, let them die. Because without any weapons what did you think was going to happen?.

[@iamyoda66]

Really good debate. Thought provoking on both sides

[@cameronpearce5943]

So what is the issue with the humanitarian aid to Hati? I’m not informed on that

[@caronadams4486]

It's always a win win for the American military industry.

[@VMorgenthaler-yp6yz]

There seems to be something wrong with this caller. Not just on facts. Cognitively, intellectually, emotionally, something.

[@xgp_ryu4185]

What's the "quality of life" of Ukrainians in Soviet Russia? Or another way to put it, how many Ukrainians died as a result of the corrupt Soviet Regime? Is modern day Russia much better? You don't need to be a historian to get the right answer here.

[@bjammin187]

Tankie caller.

[@wraynephew6838]

how would this caller feel if Russia then decides to invade Canada or another ally? At one point does he expect the U.S to deal with the Russian threat? not doing anything not only exacerbates the problem but it sends a message to other tyrants that America does not have the stomach for war.

[@growupjohnny9374]

What is he talking about?

[@ASaund-qb6wy]

Damn, Sam. No wonder Crowder is afraid to debate you. Tore this guy's entire basis down.

[@f_youtubecensorshipf_nazis]

guys who make comments like that about azov are also really quick to default to "russiagate" nonsense.

[@hendrikvanleeuwen9110]

About 7 min. What they are both missing here is that ukraine almost had a peace deal which would have seen a a federalised but complete Ukraine, with the exeption of Crimea, which was (and remains) already lost. It was literally the promise of arms from the west that derailled this negotiation.

[@ArdenJ]

Putin doesn't want peace. He wants to rebuild the Russian Empire. John McCain predicted it in 2014 and it's come true. If a country wants peace, they don't commit the Bucha Massacre at the beginning of their invasion.

[@davidbright6790]

😂😂😂 this guy is delusional. What happens with no more western/US support? Ukraine gets worn down and millions and millions lose their country and many of them their lives.

[@EricTheRed98]

This guy has never read up on history man. So sad

[@johnsushi2007]

Clearly you never have. Even Henry Kissinger told NATO not to expand or this would happen. There have been warning signs for decades

[@johnschwartz1641]

No good comes from Patriot batteries?

[@tan5taafl]

The fact that the caller mentioned Korea as failed intervention shows he is defaulting that any intervention is bad and only makes things worse. If the US wasn’t involved, the whole country would be like N.Korea.

[@darwinism8181]

"The US has done lots of bad things therefor I think it should never do anything," is such a bizzare and somehow seemingly common take.

[@antonlowe5370]

American history over the last 70 years has taught us there's always a consequence for flooding a zone with our weapons.

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

Yes, for example it defeded the nazis. so i say thank you as a german.

[@FemmiFatale]

Wtf is North Jersey?

[@SimSetSoPalestine]

Tigre & Armania ?

[@MG-ke4rv]

Caller talked such a bunch of bullshit, good for Sam to push back. He basically just stated that he doesnt know anything.

[@Holismleith]

It’s paradoxical with being anti gun is that what he was gonna say which is not at all a silly point…that was me trying to interpret that…?

[@douglasmennella4525]

"We can't do it an a way other than that harms these countries..." Well then just describe the harm instead of presenting it as an axiom.

[@atbj23]

Sure, US aid is more likely than not to the detriment of majority non-white/non-christian countries. But thats a long bow to draw on Ukraine

[@mightiv]

This is awesome! Your line of questioning is sharp & accurate. You also did well in understanding the guys perspective when you compared it with your perspective on Syria. Until then, I was was unclear what that guy was trying to say and if he was of a doomsday cult.

[@rcpmac]

Kudos to MR for having a rational discussion with this caller who seems sincere and rational.

[@cryptclown]

Soon as i heard that Azov guys will be presidents forever i knew his brain turn to rot. I'm surprised by their patience with him.

[@meepk633]

[guy fighting to prevent his kids and his neighbor's kids from getting disappeared by bloodless fascists] I hope these lethal arms didn't go through the natsec blob (?????)

[@realamerican6101]

Money for guns it is to late now.