LIVE! Black Swan Trial Day 6: Short Rebuttal & Closing Arguments!

[@MissCorgi315]

We have a saying in our family: sorry is not an eraser.

[@MichaelBuck]

Exactly! Proven long term changes must be seen and TRUST must be earned. In th8s case we have a man with 54 years of mental issues. A few counseling sessions doesnt change anything. He still had tendencies and issues, and definitely had relational pr8blems with three failed marriages that all had abuse as a central theme. I also believe he had something to do with his second wifes death.

[@walkyourdog6584]

Why not?

[@hydie0079]

​@@MichaelBuckWell said..I was raised to believe to forgive and forget but I carried so much guilt because I could forgive but I never mastered forgetting, I hate that they put that on me...😮

[@hydie0079]

Absolutely! I wish I was raised with that motto!

[@moralfortitude...2217]

@@MissCorgi315 then what is it?

[@melnimtz]

The prosecutions case is exactly why DV victims don’t come forward, unless you’ve been there, you will never understand.

[@burymewithabook]

💔

[@evilqueenyiayia]

I'm so frustrated with the Prosecution...I was going to write the same thing. I can't believe she doesn't understand what DV victims go through. 🥺

[@B_Bodziak]

​​@@evilqueenyiayia As a prosecutor, she has access to virtually unlimited experts, and surely she has been educated about the dynamics of a DV household. This seems personal to me because all of the evidence is there to indicate she was a victim. The prosecutor didn't call a single psychologist to refute the DV.

[@Andrea.S9]

@melnimtz Amen! I found it so troubling and triggering to anyone that has experienced any level of DV!

[@christoph1596]

The issue is you’re promoting the “believe all women” mantra when the reality is people lie and just because someone claims DV doesn’t mean they actually have suffered through DV.. you’re already assuming she’s totally truthful because shes claiming it and (if, for instance, she actually is lying) knows exactly what to say to check off all the boxes.. and the result of that assumption is you believe the prosecutor is attacking a DV survivor.. I’m not saying she’s guilty or innocent, but it seems very wrong (and unfair) to just completely believe Ashley and slam the prosecutor because Ashley has said things that many DV survivors have also endured… anybody can read a book on DV and say the exact right things.. The prosecution was weak, but there were plenty of weaknesses in the defense’s story as well

[@chebbohagop]

Man! I wish cameras in court would show the person who is speaking rather than keeping the lens stuck on the defendant.

[@subsu6130]

Peter, I agree. The State did not prove their case.

[@AngiHernandez-dw1wy]

Both state Atty’s rubbed me the wrong way. They dismiss even the things that he admitted to they dismiss as not violent

[@gramsgrams9159]

I agree they were in attack mode and snarling like a wild crazy person. Such spite and demonstrations were nothing but hateful.

[@ajwysopal]

Agreed. I did like how the judge gave them both 90mine total.... Just hate how in karen r case judge only gave each side 60mins...yet that case was 9weeks longer!!!

[@jazminfranciose8632]

Completely agree.

[@Mojo_0203]

Imagine if they were both men. People would be appalled (more so)… Sad to see woman attacking woman. They could have done their job without being so brutal and imo mocking and condescending.

[@AngiHernandez-dw1wy]

@@Mojo_0203that was the hardest part for me. There were things she did that concerned me and I cannot say she wasn’t guilty for sure but I can say for sure they didn’t prove her guilt

[@colorsflight6432]

The prosecution has change their theory over and over

[@ellenthom34]

Peter, you are such a star and I don't mean as a personality. I had the good fortune to work with both criminal and defense attorneys inc civil for a long time. Your coverage is almost uncanny in hitting the important bits without being boring or over the top. It is a pleasure to follow you even when I'm not invested in the case. I bet someone will be inspired to go to law school just by watching.

[@KarenAZona]

The state has become the abuser - minimizing, denying, belittling, making her think she’s crazy, threatening, using the child. I find it sickening.

[@mynameiseve.1]

it IS pure sickening!!! I'm not only angry, i'm super sad about it. i love courtTV and im watching the trial there. they annoying changed the chatroom settings to members only. so there is this small group of people and they are going after ashley. i bought membership extra to speak up but it was so awful what they were saying, i had to get out of there. at least here we are analyzing and coming to the right conclusion. ugh, so frustrating this case and the realization that our society have not changed one bit when it comes to "dont believe the woman" culture. .

[@KarenAZona]

@@mynameiseve.1 I hear you. I couldn’t watch the comments on the Law and Crime network, so unhinged. I value LYK because you can comment and not be annihilated for dissenting. Thanks for commenting!

[@BeachgirlKarli]

I thought I was gonna be sick hearing this prosecutor. Christ! She was abusive, belittling, and minimizing Doug abuses he himself acknowledged! No wonder victims do not want to come forward.😢

[@KarenAZona]

@@BeachgirlKarli I agree ! I could hardly listen to her doing exactly what abusers do - belittle, minimize, deny, it was sickening.

[@MelieneGardner]

This was a really sad day for DV survivors. It reinforces that we won't be believed.

[@Andrea.S9]

This prosecutor made me literally sick to my stomach! I am sure she triggered a lot of people and it's because of prosecutors like her that some die to the hands of the abuser because they don't say anything, pretend everything is okay because of the fear of people not believing them.💔

[@ajwysopal]

Also 90mins each side for closing...yet judge in kr case only gave them 60mins each.... Yet kr trial was 10weeks! Its wild to me how diff things work in diff states

[@jazminfranciose8632]

I completely agree. I was shocked how she tried to make it no biggie that he knocked his dog out cold in front of her. All the things he did and yet he said sorry right so it’s fine?!? What?!

[@lisafine9479]

Just like CPS fails children repeatedly, I think that the system failed both Ashley and Doug. Had they believed her or even given her the benefit of doubt, Doug might still be alive. I believe AB. Having a man attack you is scary, especially when it has happened before.

[@myfairlady5050]

Yes, I was so angry at the ridiculous “facts” she tried to pull from testimony. It was such a disservice to DV survivors. I imagine one day, her closing arguments will be used in some documentary about how the justice system perpetuates ignorance on DV. Since some of what the prosecutor said mischaracterized DV, I am wondering if that could be used for an appeal?

[@SassySouthernSusan]

Me too it made me nauseous

[@Melissa_Badhorse]

The Prosecutor's were repulsive to me. Both of them. I also heard BOTH of them say things in closing that was in direct conflict with evidence and testimony.

[@CrimeSceneTape]

YES! It was GROSS!

[@ciecie16]

Like what?

[@9290SC]

Yes. Even said she has a depraved heart 😒 No evidence of that! When in doubt, lie it out. Not guilty.

[@mrsvalaxie]

It was to the point of mocking her, a probable DV victim. Not a good look. It rubbed me the wrong way for sure.

[@thebandvia]

Preach. The prosecution lied and mocked Ashley’s recount of her trauma. They thought they were Camille Vasquez grilling Amber Heard. Misread themselves, the room and their jury.

[@rachaelthorpe4491]

Being induced a few weeks before the due date isn’t very clear. You can’t just walk in somewhere and request to be induced. She may have just gone in to labor early or maybe she was closer to the due date than they thought and induction was required. Their whole storyline of ‘She wanted to be a single mother’ is so weird to me. Who wants that? That sh** is hard. The way they try to make it sound like she’s so manipulative is very strange. It sounds like she’s tried to appease an abusive man when he was around.

[@reasonable342]

Are you aware of the Adelson case? Murder for custody issues is a motive we’ve all seen several times…

[@HailDanielle]

I mean if you haven’t had your child yet it’s hard to know how difficult it may be. Also, why didn’t any of her doctors testify?

[@moralfortitude...2217]

@@rachaelthorpe4491 or wasn't getting, appeased 🤨

[@colorsflight6432]

​@@reasonable342yeah but there was tons of proof of that in that case

[@colorsflight6432]

exactly like shooting someone and thinking you can claim self defense is a huge risk like not being with your kid for the rest of your life. That seems like a stretch to me

[@samanthamarlman317]

Ashley even admitted he never HIT her until the day this happened. But..hitting a dog till its unconscious, throwing the cat down the stairs, shooting the hole in the ceiling, punching and breaking things, putting a tracker on her car, it all may not he physical DV but its STILL EMOTIONAL, AND VERBAL ABUSE IS STILL ABUSE. he did this to his ex wife. So this prosecutor down playing DV is sickening. It had to be unbearable for this poor girl to sit and listen to. She wanted to be a single mom cuz she didnt want this unhinged man around her baby. Heaven forbid a mom trying to protect their baby! Some women commenting shes a liar and shes this or that is disgraceful to see. Not all DV cases look the same. She was so emotional testifying crying so hard her chair was shaking. Theres a lady thats in the gallery as a reporter thats on tic tok that said she had huge tears and snot coming down her face. So the prosecutor is a liar about that. Also, i wish people would stop saying doug was shot from the back or side. Clearly if u watched this trial the ME & Pathologist said he was shot in the front and the bullet went slightly next to his nipple. Thats what was proven by them both. The glamour shot photo that was shown is a professional photo that has retouched. It dont matter if his fist was open or closed its the fact he hit her. She ran outta the house screaming to the neighbor and u can hear that on the 911 call.

[@SassySouthernSusan]

💯 agree! If him attempting to buy the house directly behind her doesn’t scream stalker, I don’t know what does! It would be different if RO’s were enforced but they’re just a piece of paper. It’s sad in 2024, women STILL cannot defend themselves!! Oh and that’s Jules in the courtroom. She was there in Mya’s trial.

[@D64nz]

@@SassySouthernSusan Dude was a creep from the start, with that radical age gap. Sadly the whole Trad-wife was a thing for a few years, and just now starting to get erased.

[@natalienewkirk8362]

Sooooooo. According to this prosecutor, if Ashley says sorry for this then all is okay? Since doug said sorry and she’s claiming all is good. Good news for the criminals in this division.

[@ciecie16]

No. The point is her life was not in an imminent threat in that moment. You don’t get to claim retroactive non physical abuse as a self defence claim for shooting someone unarmed and not attacking you.

[@lindaf2362]

I agree with the prosecution. I believe she is a master manipulator. She was doing everything she could to alienate this man from his child.

[@reasonable342]

@@lindaf2362Exactly

[@reasonable342]

@@ciecie16Agree!

[@HalflingMarquee]

​@@ciecie16 The law is fear for life or great bodily harm. This could be a concussion or getting assaulted. You don't have to let him beat you up because "he probably won't kill me". Nobody is allowed to hit or assault anyone and people have a right to defend themselves. She didn't take 20 shots or chase him down. He cornered her in a bedroom and she repeatedly told him to leave. He said "your fucking done". That is pretty straight forward.

[@lorifeeney934]

In the prosecution's rebuttal, it was stated that Doug was "trying to change." If he wasn't violent before, what does he have to change? IMO the prosecution keeps contradicting themselves.

[@MichaelBuck]

xactly! Proven long term changes must be seen and TRUST must be earned. In th8s case we have a man with 54 years of mental issues. A few counseling sessions doesnt change anything. He still had tendencies and issues, and definitely had relational pr8blems with three failed marriages that all had abuse as a central theme. I also believe he had something to do with his second wifes death.

[@lorifeeney934]

@@MichaelBuck I find it sad that in the year 2024, people are still not inclined to believe women -or me- who report abuse. And you are right about his track record. It's crazy that in light of all that, people still didn't believe her.

[@jfraserfisher]

@@lorifeeney934people did start believing women in the me too movement and then we found out innocent men were accused, careers lost, their lives in the toilet before any real evidence was shown and realised not all women tell the truth.

[@oliviahancook5195]

So smaller calibers bounce around in your body that's why the entrance is more llogical. They cause more damage. I thought the prosecution spent a lot of time on that report but that report would have been tied in to keeping the child to herself, so I don't think the motive is far off, to me it just cleared it up why. I also think the defense is using emotion to get her off. But let's suppose this was a man has 3 guns in the house 2 in the room.He runs into the bedroom and 2 guns in there. Now if I was moving with 3 guns I would have at least packed 2 in a box or locked box. Yes if the things happened why did she invite him to help her move. Also is or was he looking for his daughter. He didn't get the injunction until after he drove. But everything the defense says is what Ashley says no one else is around, because she sent her mom and daughter to the park.

[@valhallaw]

This prosecution is something else. Their closing was like *they* were trying to batter the jury into submission.

[@KarenAZona]

I agree, I just made a comment that the state is now the abuser - minimizing, denying, belittling, threatening, using the child. Sickening.

[@moralfortitude...2217]

@@valhallaw they're suppose, too...

[@valhallaw]

@@KarenAZona Exactly. Like they were putting on a DV demo.

[@caterinadc5567]

LOL the prosecution saying Doug said "sorry". Immediately my head started playing Eminem & Rihanna's 'Love the Way You Lie.' ("But you promised her, next time you'll show restraint... There won't be no next time! I apologize, even though I know it's lies. I'm tired of the games, I just want her back, I know I'm a liar; if she ever tries to f--kin' leave again, I'ma tie her to the bed and set this house on fire.") That song was written for a reason. Domestic abuse USUALLY involves cycles where the abuser tries to 'make it up to' the victim, apologizes, buys flowers, whatever. They're on their sweetest behaviour for a short time. Then that time ends.

[@myfairlady5050]

I couldn’t believe she started with that. The prosecutor said so many ignorant things. Wonder if it could be used as the basis for an appeal?

[@Nel164]

I don’t know much about the case, I remember hearing about it years ago when it first happened. I watched parts of the trial and I have had a very difficult time understanding why people think she’s guilty. She sounds like a victim whose voice wasn’t heard. We just recently went through this with Cassie, and so many other women in the past who have dealt with abuse in silence.

[@ShraddaNiche]

omg 😳 she is a freakin disaster u r gonna eat your words lol but not funny at all

[@ciecie16]

She’s guilty because she admitted to shooting him even though he did not utter threats, or lay a finger on her. How is that NOT GUILTY? She set him up and ask him to help her moved. You don’t do that if you’re afraid of your life from someone? She also had her mom take her daughter out. She planned it.

[@9290SC]

Many women are saying guilty because Ashley confessed to never being hit by Doug 🤦🏽‍♀️ Abuse happens in many forms. I believe that this is a case of fight or flight. She feared! Not guilty.

[@johannawigg6921]

​@@9290SCExactly!!!

[@Nel164]

@@ShraddaNicheI’m gonna eat my words for having an opinion?

[@CrimeSceneTape]

Where is the line for this prosecutor? At what point does it become abuse? If these circumstances were happening to your daughter (general question, not directed to anyone specifically) then would it be abuse?

[@moralfortitude...2217]

@@CrimeSceneTape then what is the job of the prosecution... guess, to help the defense, huh???

[@adamsmall5598]

Hell, even if I were family of the abuser - if it were my son, this would still be abuse in my eyes.

[@CrimeSceneTape]

@@moralfortitude...2217 The prosecutor’s job is to seek justice, not to convict people. If they work fervently to uncover facts and evidence, then justice should be served. Prosecutor’s technically work for the idea of justice, not a group of people & not one side or the other. These prosecutors could have done their job without belittling the defendant, sounding condescending, nor attempting to put DV allegations on some sort of scale where a punch is worse than acts of stalking. They could behave professionally and in a way that upholds truth and justice. If the defendant is guilty then the facts would bare out her guilt. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@kmm1691]

​@moralfortitude...2217 you sound like an abuser yourself or are ok with it.

[@moralfortitude...2217]

@@CrimeSceneTape Yada Yada yada..Yada... Tell them, then... Justice 4 Eva !!!

[@B_Bodziak]

I strongly detest this prosecutor.

[@SassySouthernSusan]

Anastasia and Dresella lol

[@myfairlady5050]

What Ashley described sounded so much like my ex- husband, who was very physically abusive. The violence started slow. He was nearly 10 years older than me, proposed after only a few months of dating, hit his own dog, stalked me, punched holes in the wall, tried to get the therapist to encourage reconciliation, moved in close to my new house, etc. Hearing this prosecutor made me so sad- is there any hope for DV victims in this country? You either let the guy kill you or go to jail trying to survive. On top of that, this prosecutor did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt and yet the jury still came back with a guilty verdict. I am not sure the jury system works anymore.

[@KarenAZona]

@@myfairlady5050 I’m sorry for what you went thru. I went thru similar but not as bad as you and AB. I can’t stand that she’s in prison.

[@tiffanyroberts3213]

Watched the case from the start and I’m going with Not guilty

[@Dee-ur1hk]

Me too! I knew nothing about this case. I don’t think the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

[@Type1MomRN]

@@Dee-ur1hkSAME !

[@tiffanyroberts3213]

@@Dee-ur1hk well apparently they were in a hurry to get home.

[@Dee-ur1hk]

@@tiffanyroberts3213 ya i didn’t like how that happened!

[@1catpastcrazy337]

My stepfather still apologizes for all the different episodes of abuse from over 20 yrs ago. Yet, he is still manipulative to this day which he’s not allowed in my life. Ashley didn’t have a choice but be in contact with Doug once the TPO was over and my mom was in a similar situation with her abuser.

[@ljjl6458]

Abusers do not change they only change their tactics

[@lanni8224]

I agree ! He’s a narcissist, his ego meant more then the harm he caused

[@myfairlady5050]

How many DV survivors have googled “How do I Co-Parent with an abuser”, after realizing that the justice system won’t protect you. I know I have….

[@KarenAZona]

@@myfairlady5050 me too. I got lucky I was able to survive until my youngest aged out of visitation. It was scary and no one believes you.

[@hydie0079]

​@@KarenAZona I am so incredibly sorry you are a DV victim 😢 I'm so happy you are out of that..I wish you all the best ❤ 🤗

[@hydie0079]

@myfairlady5050 I'm so sorry you had to do that! I hope you're doing well now..❤ hugs 😊

[@bethnshermy]

@@myfairlady5050 I've also googled co-parenting vs. parallel parenting (with a Narcissist rather than an abuser) Oddly specific if she wasn't really working through this problem.

[@moralfortitude...2217]

@@myfairlady5050to act google a human process is ludicrous

[@caterinadc5567]

I would NEVER want this prosecutor on my side. Horrifying lack of empathy for domestic violence victims.

[@reasonable342]

But what you seem to fail to realize is that their position is that she is absolutely not a victim of DV. I’m sure they would just as vehemently prosecute a DV abuser. People on these social media sites are taking this all so personally. That’s not what a court of law is about. It’s just crazy.

[@caterinadc5567]

@@reasonable342 We disagree then. I believe she IS a victim of domestic violence. He pulled out a gun and shot the ceiling in the room they were in. He threw a loaded gun at her. He body checked her twice. He held her prisoner in her home and hit her in her head. I'm not sure how you could characterize the above as non-violent. Or perhaps you believe she's lying about these incidents, in which case we would disagree as jurors. I believe her to a sufficient degree to vote not guilty.

[@caterinadc5567]

@@reasonable342 Sorry, I just realized you said "their position is". Still, I think they are wildly miscalculating their tone, if they would want to persuade a juror like I would be. The tone and some of the reality-inconsistent arguments of the prosecution come off far too much to me as what an abuser's equally abusive sister would say to dismiss her brother's victim; it moves me even more to Ashley's side. Whereas if the prosecution was acting more compassionate and reasonable, I might be more open to believing them.

[@joang2328]

I vote Guilty

[@user-mu8sy2hb8b]

Not guilty. I have appreciated your coverage, everyone else is attacking the defendant

[@mynameiseve.1]

I believe Ashley!! Went in skeptic cause of the caption which made her sound cold and guilty "black swan m trial", but with an open mind. I was on Ashleys side very quickly!! I hope the jury does the right thing!!

[@DazyGo]

It is 2024 and yet victims of domestic violence still get pillared. Reminds me of how rape wasn’t rape if it occurred between spouses. DV is rampant, and the odds are stacked against the woman(in vast majority of cases) to ever get justice or even protection from the abusers. In the basest of language, I am SICK of this! Enough. A woman has a right to defend herself, including using fatal force when her life is threatened. Period. The justice system is failing these victims.

[@mynameiseve.1]

Exactly. I am so shocked and disheartened by all of these women who are against her. I'm used to the men not believing (in the vast majority of cases), but really, so many women. One woman wrote, i was SAed so i know she is lying. WAT?? I would love to live in a world where not only men protect men, but women start to protect women!!! The prosecution (both in their separate closings) made a big point that shley didnt put dougs surname on emersons birth certificate. C'mon now, wat is going on here??! Wow i hope the jury does the right thing!! Why have this law in Florida if nobody is gonna accept when somebody actually does it. Its ridiculous!! I'm gonna stop here even though i could go for ever haha. Yikes i did write a bit much, apologies😅

[@dickfitswell3437]

In Islamic countries women aren't believed unless they have TWO WITNESSES to the assault. That is abhorrent. I then wonder why these leftists are so supportive of Palestine and Hamas. This prosecutor should have never brought the case. His previous wife was abused according to her texts to him where she says "why did you kick me so hard " and I think Ashley was afraid of him and had to act like nothing was happening when she went to the psychiatrist thing. I think he sees women as possessions and that is NOT OK

[@MichaelBuck]

Actualy, i ts be ing reported now that MORE and MORE MEN are victims of DV than women. Men dont report it becuase of the stigma and shame associated in reporting that a woman is abusing them. Only reason women get more attention is they are encouraged and supported to do so while men are not encouraged to do so. LE and the legal system dont believe men or defend them. Also, because of Feminisms influence to report everything they dont like about men as DV women tend to use DV and abuse charges as a weapons against Men to manipulate and control them. Domestic Abuse is rampant in the modern western world, and is one reason men and women are NOT getting married anymore and more women are getting sterilized and not having children.

[@Littledogs3]

Are you being for real??? Stuff happened in 2017 when they were living together …. This happened in 2020 there are no claims of him doing anything for three years …. And she had him pack his things in the same moving truck! SHe just happened to go in the one room with two guns 🤦‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

[@ArtOfExperiencing]

I told you Peter not to be so naive … and not believe Ashley’s testimony. You know how you know someone is crying real tears?! 😭 you feel them when watching. Our mirror neurons help us detect fake vs real in others. Thank you 🙏 Peter for all u do.

[@SassySouthernSusan]

Jules who was in the courtroom said she was crying

[@colorsflight6432]

i have seen guity people bawling though so I don't put much stock in that kinda thing

[@ArtOfExperiencing]

@@SassySouthernSusan it’s one thing to cry the tears can be there but if they do not come from a truthful place within no one believes them.

[@ArtOfExperiencing]

@@colorsflight6432 it’s about the place the tears come from, as an acting teacher, I can tell when actors cry real tears but the origin is not from a truthful place, they will seem and feel fake no matter they are tears . We do this in acting we analyze human behavior and try to transform psychology into behavior, that’s the art of acting 🎭 not only does it help in acting but it provides insight into every human emotion experience. Pretty amazing how we learn to detect truth from lies.

[@jessicabowden4203]

If she planned this to get Emerson to herself, wouldn't she have come up with a more extreme version of events that puts no doubt of self defense of shooting him being proportional to risk to her. Planning this and risking jail time and therefore not being with her daughter doesn't add up.

[@justkim9827]

Exactly!! If Ashley was lying, why wouldn't the lie be more elaborate? Why wouldn't she say "yah, he punched me and tried to choke me when he trapped me in the room. He said he was gonna kill me. Etc etc"

[@ashleyhaskett8710]

She was away from him, she had her own place. If she was afraid of him, then don't invite him over. Stay away, if you are in flammable relationship take the logs out of the fire, don't keep playing in the fire because someone will eventually get burned.

[@irishmclass2042]

I vote NOT GUILTY. I didn’t appreciate the Prosecution flipping in the closing. Both Prosecutors seemed slimy and unprofessional - if I was a juror, that would be my opinion, and it leads me to believe the Prosecution is very misleading. The Jury Question was very important-they definitely need a read back.

[@moralfortitude...2217]

Uhhh, what ya' think prosecution job is🤦‍♀️🙄🤨🤯🤦‍♂️

[@dawnwheeler2649]

First of all, they didn’t flip the case. . Often more or different or contradictory evidence may come out during the course of the trial, and either side may alter strategy Nirmal

[@Hadacattoo2]

She sounds so sarcastic and like it's personal rather than just presenting her case.

[@moralfortitude...2217]

@@Hadacattoo2 she (they) had a job to do. they're not defense atty's...🤨

[@KarenAZona]

⁠@@moralfortitude...2217I don’t think the prosecution job is to mislead and shade and belittle. That is what is being objected too imo

[@rileyallen489]

The state induces a PTSD flashback then has the nerve to say that in closing? If I were a DV victim in this county, I'd never go the cops because god forbid it comes before this prosecutor.

[@Caketime2]

the comment saying she didn't have any broken bones or nose or bloody lips so you have to let somebody beat you to a pulp before you can claim self-defense? Not cool

[@LaLaLonna]

They also aren't taking into account how scary someone screaming at you, hurting your pets, breaking things AND they usually carry a gun is. That's terrifying

[@9290SC]

Yes, it's the women saying that! It is the main reason MANY are saying guilty. I am one, so I know how we think. The Law & Crime chat truly despised the psychologist, Dr. Ferris speaking on DV the other day. It was atrocious. Their mind was already made up lol. Not guilty

[@jfk32975]

Absolutely not. But did he deserve to die. Come on.

[@9290SC]

​​@@jfk32975 she warned him, and with rage like that, it is justified sometimes.

[@nhlpens583]

@@jfk32975 If she was in fear of her life, yep, he deserved what he got.

[@caterinadc5567]

This prosecutor sounds like a real abuser's equally abusive sister, harassing the abuse victim. It's just yikes, in terms of the tone and the way when the PROSECUTION tells the story, it frankly sounds like an argument for the defence.

[@adamsmall5598]

"Never one tear" is a risky hill to die on. Melanie Little's court watcher says she was in that courtroom (she's on video sitting behind Ashley) and she says Ashley's tears and snot and all that were plain as day. And "we had to take a break to let her compose herself, and she did" is just the silliest argument ever.

[@annm9589]

She looks like a battered wife just sitting there. This is a tough one. I believe she’s victim of domestic abuse. I believe she gave him mixed signals, perhaps used to appeasing him perhaps she sometimes believed he was better, idk. So did what he did that day rise to justify killing him? This part I just can’t say. It’s a difficult one. I don’t think jury will understand judge’s note that they get a read back of Dr testimony. Which I think they need. State misleading in that.

[@roseytwinksmnk2932]

Whether or not AB is innocent of the states theory, I don’t believe they have proved their case. So for me I’d have to vote Not Guilty.

[@katieyoung873]

The progression of aggressive behavior on day of move would be very scary.

[@dorothyd7929]

Punching a dog unconscious and kicking a cat down a flight of stairs tells us A LOT about who Doug is!!!!!!!

[@jfk32975]

But ? Was did he deserve to die

[@letusgather...7820]

Where is the proof of that? No one but ashley said the dog was unconscious. He pushed the dog because the dog accidentally clawed his bare legs...not a punch.

[@citigirlcountrified1927]

​@@letusgather...7820 Doug said it in a transcript of testimony in a previous trial. And apologized in front of a counselor

[@citigirlcountrified1927]

​@@jfk32975 did Ashley deserve to protect herself?

[@caterinadc5567]

@@jfk32975 If he refused to leave Ashley's house when asked, then physically prevented her from leaving, then hit her, then ominously told her "You're done," then when she tried to threaten him into leaving with a gun and instead of leaving he _moved towards her_ to try to take the gun... then yes, Doug deserved to die. Some things are just cause and effect. If you trap someone in a situation where it is reasonable for them to fear for their lives and to believe either they die or you die, then you have forfeit your own life. Assuming Ashley is telling the truth, Doug forfeit his own life that day, and it is a tragedy and trauma that she had to experience the moment of killing the father of her child. It is only if Ashley is lying and Doug did not present himself to her in a dangerous way, that Ashley was in the wrong to kill him.

[@mariellel6342]

I saw a comment that popped up during the live that questioned if the people who think Ashley is a liar watched the case on TV beforehand. This was an interesting question to me - I watched several tv shows covering this case pretty soon after it happened. When the case got to trial, I recognized the case immediately. I remembered that following those tv episodes, I definitely felt she was guilty, but intentionally didn’t refresh my recollection of the case pre trial. So, when the prosecution rested, I was pretty stunned by how little evidence I felt was even presented to convince a jury of her guilt, much less any convincing evidence. I didn’t feel like we’d gotten anywhere close to proving this was a killing done with a depraved mind. I’m sorry, but “apologizing” for discharging a weapon inside a home to intentionally terrify her doesn’t mean Ashley’s fear should disappear. I’m appalled by some of the “she wasn’t abused! A victim would never do ____!” Especially considering it was textbook abuse survivor behavior. What a mess.

[@chacha-Ce83]

I don’t know who came up on your screen as a comment, but it’s my understanding that I don’t have to get my nose, busted my lips busted, my eyes blackened, or have my head bashed in to be threatened by anyone in my own home that’s ridiculous. I don’t even have to have any blood dripping if you come into my home and I tell you to leave, and you don’t and I feel threatened by you. I have every right to protect myself. If I feel I’m in imminent danger of being beaten, or killed by anyone especially a spouse trained with lethal hands I have legal rights to defend myself. I’m sorry but these comments are disturbing

[@jfk32975]

But this is not what happened

[@B_Bodziak]

​@@jfk32975 I completely disagree. You are completely ignoring that he was violent with his first wife, knocked the dog out, put an illegal tracker on her car, told her he was in a murderous mood AND their marriage counselor confirmed he was violent. ALL of those were not disputed by the state, but you're just going to conveniently ignore it all.

[@Liska78]

That comment just came up on my screen too and I couldn’t believe it! You don’t have to be beaten black and blue and bleeding to be threatened in your home! That actually reminds me of something my ex would say after he choked me, pushed me, grabbed me and bruised me, etc.: “You’re not hurt. If I wanted to hurt you, you’d have broken bones. You’re fine.” And really, he doesn’t even have to have touched her; she felt trapped and he was threatening violence and I think that is enough

[@ashleymartsen9743]

Hi Peter, Thank you so much for your coverage. I didn't want to watch the lives because the case was hard for me to hear, and some people in the hat made me sick, so I am just being rewatch.

[@burymewithabook]

It was very triggering, but good looking out for yourself. ❤️

[@lisajeter9511]

Narcissist or abusers have no problem apologizing over and over again.

[@cindythompson1805]

Interesting because other channels said they thought the question was good for Ashleigh. Isn’t it interesting how you can look at something from your own perspective and see it differently than someone else. They could be just taking their civic duty seriously - it isn’t completely obvious like other trials. I have no issue with them taking a day to discuss the evidence presented to them.

[@bradwittekoek7889]

as of 9:55 - jury couldn't come to unanimous decision. judge gave the option of going home and starting again in the morning, jury decided to stay

[@janeeagly7293]

The jury probably wanted to get it done that night. maybe one leaving for vacation. Believe they compromised then

[@joanne8084]

Not guilty 💯 They did not meet there burden whatsoever. In fact I think they helped prove she was a victim & tried to victim blame during their questioning of witnesses. They didn’t prove it couldn’t have happened the way she explained & the defense did prove it. I absolutely think people are biased because they see a young pretty woman who married an older man and assume she did it for money or as they tried to say for a child which is dumb because she could of easily gotten pregnant from someone else who didn’t want in the picture.

[@faith-mc8fe]

I love your channel! You are so smart!

[@hollypgh84]

You can totally tell he is a fantastic lawyer based on his conversations/responses here.

[@derekwalters4980]

I have a sister that was in a horribly abusive relationship (he put her in the hospital 3 times), she learned the hard way to never EVER be alone with him. If she had any awareness that he would be around, usually for their kids, she'd either not be around, or she would have witnesses with her. It makes no sense to me that, were she actually in fear of her life or her safety in any way, she would have kept her mother and daughter there as witnesses, had a neutral 2rd party around, never be alone with your abuser if there is any possible way you can mitigate it. Why not call 911 when he body checked her? Call the neighbor Nextdoor?

[@gramsgrams9159]

I love your show. You make everything so clear and help me understand a lot of things. I believe she is Not Guilty. They just came on and jury hung can not come to unanimous decision at 5:35 hours of deliberation. Judge offered for them to go home. They chose to stay. I really feel bad for her. I pray she gets a not guilty.

[@pineywoodslawandcrime]

Peter, I watched this live earlier (on another channel), and you wouldn’t have believed the comments!! All about how good the State did in close. She did better than yesterday and Friday, but her lack of empathy was standing out to me. So glad to watch your analysis. ❣️

[@nhlpens583]

Let me guess...Court TV.

[@pineywoodslawandcrime]

@@nhlpens583no!! I don’t like them very much. It was a presenter I liked, but the comments were from outer space!!

[@jts3505]

Hoping the jury knows something about how dv and power/control works. Praying for them to exonerate her. I could easily have been trapped in a similar scenario and probably would end up in prison had it gotten this far, because the legal system fails women in these situations more than not. The support group I am in is full of women eho fear for themselves and their children when the legal system fails to protect the actual vyctim, but protects the abnser instead.

[@nhlpens583]

@@pineywoodslawandcrime Hmmm...I only follow a few true crime/ live trial feeds- LYK, Grizzly, sometimes Emily Baker and Brandi Churchwell, and John Ritter. But I haven't had time to watch this full trial or read too many comments. I can pretty much rule out bad comments on Grizzly/Gisela's channel. So I'm stumped lol Doesn't matter. Court TV is VERY biased and I barely watch them anymore.

[@pineywoodslawandcrime]

@@nhlpens583it was on Gisela’s channel!! I love her, but her commenters were whack today. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@lillyroth61]

Appeasing your abuser when you are with him is, I believe, quite a normal survivor’s strategy. I have no idea if the husband was violent or not. However, didn’t Eva B testify that her father was a black belt of sorts? So size is not an issue, his body could well be his weapon. Too many unanswered questions. The prosecution has failed to convince me that she wanted him dead. I have yet to understand the prosecutor’s argument. I understand that she does not like AB, that seems obvious, but not being nice is not a crime.Is she a killer that murdered her husband with intent and premeditation for some ulterior motive? I have not been convinced.

[@Bhubnipz]

Her actions towards the victim are of issue because *she didn’t actually have to interact with him at all*. She wasn’t in his house under his control, she chose to engage with him and lead him on. She invited him over to the house the night he was killed

[@patriciabrassington]

@@Bhubnipz

[@SweetiePieTweety]

It’s tough listening to this once the verdict has been made but I missed the opportunity to watch it before. I appreciate your breakdown. These two prosecutors do not seem to possess couth.

[@galeocean4182]

Not guilty. I didn't like the way the prosecution muddled the "wheel" testimony and said in closing the witness didn't answer her questions, so she didn't find him credible. Her questions to him made no sense, so they were impossible to answer. It felt like she was insulting my intelligence. I hope the jury saw through it

[@caterinadc5567]

I don't like that the judge didn't answer the jury's question. He should have made clear there was a WAY for them to get their question answered, rather than imply that there's no way for them to get their question answered.

[@amandamosteller1371]

Did this prosecutor just say that hes not abusive because he apologized 😮 Oh my

[@reasonable342]

Nope I don’t think that’s what she said.. perhaps a misinterpretation?

[@amandamosteller1371]

@reasonable342 it's not word for word but that IS what she said...... perhaps you should re-watch

[@reasonable342]

I don’t need to rewatch but thanks. I understood the first time. And what they are suggesting is that 3 years ago, he apologized for whatever had actually occurred (which we are not specifically privy to)… 3 years ago!!! And that NOTHING happened since!!!! ZERO, ZILCH! And THEN they went over the timeline of events that set up the context. This is the problem with all these people on here and jurors presumably. They are not using their brain to actually understand all the evidence and to make appropriate inferences. I wonder what the education level is of all these people and whether they actually have critical thinking skills. What is their degree and career, if any.

[@KayKayLaLa.]

Coming back to watch this after I saw the verdict live with you all yesterday.

[@beachcomberrdh]

I do not remember anything about Doug filing for sole custody ... Can the defense not object to things she is saying that didn't come out in the trial?

[@reasonable342]

It did come out. Did you watch it all?

[@justkim9827]

Defense can object to "facts not in evidence" Did you notice how the Prosecutor objected when Taylor brought up the letter, then on rebuttal she went into that same letter that she objected to? I wish the defense would have objected more. There were plenty of objectionable statements and arguments by the state. Those ladies are awful.

[@johannawigg6921]

If I was a juror, I'd vote not guilty

[@ajwysopal]

Absolutely. For me I believe she is innocent. The state didn't prove anything to me. And also I'd really consider not guilty just on the style and smug attitude of the state. It really turned me off. Basically throwing aside every act Doug did as no big deal.... Like really?!? Knocking out a dog cold isn't a giant sign of an abuser? How about shooting his gun into the kitchen celling?... Maybe throwing the cat down the stairs?.... No?... None of that? Or it is void because it didn't happen that week?.... Cuz those kinds of things would never stay with you right?.... Surly those actions wouldn't make you terrified of the person who did that......

[@irishmclass2042]

@@johannawigg6921 -I would also vote NOT guilty. How many husbands act that way and then expect their wives to stick around? Of course, she was abused. She feared for her own safety and her child’s safety. She tried everything it seemed. I don’t think anyone should separate the events leading up to the actual confrontation and the shooting death of DB the way the prosecutor tried to state that 3 years had passed since DB’s crazy outrages. As sad as it is that he lost his life, he was constantly pushing AB emotionally to the brink. He was unpredictable and difficult plus he was obsessed with her. DB pushed her past her limit.

[@Tara_116]

Just watched the Dr-“According to conversations with both Ashley and Doug, I found him domineering, etc.”

[@hydie0079]

@Tara_116 Hi.. could you tell me where you watched this, I'd really like to watch it.. Thank you! 😊 xx hydie

[@Tara_116]

@@hydie0079 kzbin.info_Jib5Pof9TY?si=Os6dJCm2eB2_ncKd

[@Tara_116]

@@hydie0079 hope this works. This should begin right at the start of his testimony-I’m not very familiar with KZbin other than watching it. lol

[@JensTooth]

Dr Quintall also said his conclusion was Doug was “disingenuous and over the top” and Ashley fears were reported

[@84rinne_moo]

Let me say something about crying or not crying. A person can totally get worked up over something, distraught, and “breakdown” without crying. You don’t always cry when you are heavily affected by something. Wish ppl would stop judging stuff like that as if it means anything.

[@marytrainer4567]

I agree the prosecutor did not prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt.

[@rachelrisley8560]

New member!!! So appreciate your commentary and insight. Especially your effort to not take sides, and keeping it evidence based. Just wow.

[@colorsflight6432]

you can't just ask to be induced early no doctor would ever do that so it doesn't make sense to me

[@harrisonhanson2998]

See now I’m torn & I’m leaning towards a mistrial bc they never said anything about “Doug filing for full custody of Emerson” if anything Peters right, they empathized how DB was only interested in AB not the daughter. & that’s a HUGE motive imo. But see I keep going back to AB’s reaction after the prosecutor made her act out the night it happened & in my eyes she was legitimately sobbing. I don’t think those tears were fake.

[@chacha-Ce83]

A person watching the jury inn the court room came on a KZbin channel and verified that those were real tears. Those were real tears.

[@joang2328]

You skipped over that the defense said that Manslaughter was a compromise verdict. That was a BIG mistake.

[@dragonbreath8769]

The first time i was hut across the face, i couldn't tell you in retrospect if it was a slap, backhand, closed. I couldn't remember. After i started training Martial arts to be sure i wouldn't be so weak bext time. I saw them all in slow motion.

[@juliacieslak3044]

But there is no proof at all of him hitting her that day. The photo shows nothing. Everyone believes her although there is no proof at all about ANYTHING from the night she murdered him. I cant believe how many of you believe her. She fooled everyone.

[@shelbylee242]

'I know I threw a loaded gun at you, but I said I'm sorry, so now it's irrelevant.' I'd like for someone to ask the prosecutor if a DUI driver can barely miss hitting someone with their car but get away with it cause they say sorry

[@bcastle2397]

Thank you so much Peter for remaining unbiased for the most part and allowing us to analyze both closings--seeing the good, the bad, and the ugly. You are truly a professional attorney who helps us understand the legal system--instead of choosing to bash any side or attorney. Refreshing!!! Keep up the great work!!!

[@B_Bodziak]

We could easily be listening to this prosecutor tell us how he beat Ashley up, finally killed her and the system failed her

[@LaLaLonna]

The willful ignorance of the prosecution saying "well Doug apologized so of course he meant it and never did it again"....except he did do it again and Dougs apology is a typical apology from an abuser. Also, if someone is pointing a g*n at you, are you going to start to turn or turn your back on them? Thats what it seemed the prosecution proposed when she said Doug put his hands up. This prosecution disgusts me as a survivor who had a very funny, charasmatic abuser.

[@joanne8084]

Absolutely agree! People who have never been in a relationship like this just can’t understand the thought process of being in fear while trying not to poke the bear, especially when the bear is funny & likable!

[@SimplyLolly]

I was in an abusive relationship… together several years & engaged. While it was mostly verbal, knives were displayed at times. (Which is more than Ashley went through) I finally kicked him out of MY house. Well, guess what… we're friends online, smile & hug when we run into each other in public & he has even come over to catch up & hang for a bit. *Just because a relationship was abusive DOESN'T mean instant fear forever!!* FERRIS WAS VERY WRONG ABOUT THAT!!🤨😤 I have NO problem with my ex… we have grown & gone on with our lives but are still in contact & don’t hold animosity for the past.

[@adamsmall5598]

One interesting thing about Ashley's story is she doesn't really explain her actions in order to fit the evidence. Instead, she simply describes the events, and then the experts fact checked her story, showing how the physical evidence lined up with what she claims happened. She never says, for example, "his legs went up and kinda slanted like this and that's when I shot him in the leg, like this. She doesn't explain why she had the guns in her room until asked specifically to do so. She doesn't tell a story about why she invited Doug over until someone questions it. She just tells her story and explains the details when asked to do so.

[@AMYV3]

“He apologized” 😡🤮. But then he was stalking her house at night. Cops called. Then tries to buy/rent the house behind hers when a judge ordered he stay away from her. Nahhhh cause “he apologized”. 😡

[@jWa6144]

I thought the defense did a better job using witness testimony in its closing argument and actually acted and sounded more professional. The state’s attorneys sounded angry and condescending and dismissive.

[@swordfish1120]

CourtTv poll regarding Ashley's testimony: 70% Not believable; 10% Somewhat believable ; 9% Very believable.

[@lorifeeney934]

If true, that is not only a shame, but more evidence of the problem: no one believes victims of DV.

[@annm9589]

Yes, I prefer lawtube for the Karen read case and this case. Courttv audience imo does not watch the case and form an opinion but jump to conclusions. This group is more thoughtful and respectful. I wonder what we would vote.

[@swordfish1120]

@@annm9589 Agreed. If all one watched was the defendant testimony I can see why they vote was so high as not believable.

[@trishlarson]

Wow, see I don’t believe the defendant even a tiny bit. I really do appreciate Peter, but the chat in this case is following the leader. I’ve never seen him be this biased, and I’m shocked.

[@sadie4me2]

I think she is guilty

[@Tobymare]

Most women who’ve experienced DV will tell you that what she went through was nothing, there are tons of info on ppl who went through real DV-research. There was no reason to kill him. I’m wondering if a lot of people who think that she’s innocent have just not ever seen real DV?

[@ashleyhaskett8710]

I don't see how you couldn't see manipulation. Making him think they are getting back together and being a family. Then telling others she doesn't want to be with him. That is exactly manipulation.

[@Ts_familyman]

Missed the poll but ng imo too many things that point to dv and self defense for me especially after prosecution tried to say shot in the back but it was the side...

[@JensTooth]

I re listened to Dr Quintall, he said it was based on conversations with both Ashley and Doug. The only thing he stated about Ashlee specifically was that she said she was afraid of Doug.

[@colorsflight6432]

yeah

[@sngray11]

Replay crew! 🫶🏽 Thank you Peter for continuing to keep us updated on this trial. I knew nothing about this case prior to you covering this trial on Day One. I really hope that the jury ensures that justice is served and acquits Ashley of all charges against her. As a fellow survivor, my heart goes out to Ashley.

[@theredrover3217]

Peter, I have waited to The Bitter End before forming an opinion as a juror. I have much sympathy for Ashley she's has been in a difficult place. In the end it is my belief she acted irresponsibly for the threat as it were. She did not need to use lethal Force or from what I heard her response was Overkill. I expected to hear some sort of a claim she had accidentally delivered a lethal shot (I could have bought that.) If I was a juror I could be swayed either way but my initial vote would be guilty of manslaughter and hope for some leniency in sentencing.

[@justkim9827]

If you could be swayed either way, that's supposed to be a not guilty vote. Ashley testified that she just shot, she didn't know where she was aiming on his body and she didn't remember how many times she pulled the trigger. She didn't shoot to kill, and the state sure didn't prove she purposefully meant to kill him. Ashley was very familiar with guns, if she wanted to kill him why not shoot him in the head, or center mass?

[@theredrover3217]

@@justkim9827 I agree with you but it was the depraved Heart part. I believed Ashley by the way or did not feel her as evil as the prosecution portrayed her. Hwever, did not find the threat worthy of shoot to kill. That is the part where I could be swayed. I simply could not feel passionately enough to hold out if it create a hung jury situation. BTW I personally have been in a situation fearing a loved ones level of Rage result in very, very serious bodily harm. I do feel pretty strongly that she could have DISABLED him and make her Escape from that imminent danger thus guilty of manslaughter.

[@tinacolada_84]

Actually Faris did admit he was going off of everything he was told by Ashlee

[@justkim9827]

He testified he was going off reports and things as well

[@janeeagly7293]

No not all that is true. He said he was going by what he observed and also what Ashley had told him.

[@otherdelight]

He filed after he found out about her boyfriend..that's what I thought was said

[@_MomtallicA_]

She filed first. He tracked her and followed her. Prosecution claims she said she was engaged because he saw her with a ring but it was not an engagement ring.

[@colorsflight6432]

​@_MomtallicA_ yeah I can see him just going off about a ring.

[@justkim9827]

That was said by the State though, not a witness

[@sandramuskopf4994]

Couldn't the defense objected to the Pros stating "full custody" in the closing. That never came up. In fact, it seems like at one point that same attorney said full custody and then corrected herself to say shared custody during one of their witness questioning

[@SassySouthernSusan]

💯 lies

[@charliehorse2959]

Appreciate your channel so much. Subscribed. However, lately, it feels to me it’s leaning far Defense-angle…. hoping keep it balanced. Your legal explanations A+. Thank you listening.☺

[@stephanieyuhas64]

I think they will find guilty. It wasn't very tasteful but how the state word d everything in closing.. it kinda made sense.

[@jasongreen6842]

I would vote not guilty based on evidence

[@KSCSLR]

I had to pause and missed the poll. I would vote not guilty. I believe their were bad acts and bad decisions on both ends but i found her believable. I think evidence lacked to show this was planned.

[@HailDanielle]

First degree murder isn’t on the table. They aren’t trying to prove it was premeditated

[@AmberRoss-w2o]

Please go back and watch the cross of Quintell . He literally said he came to the conclusions about Doug bc of what Ashely told him

[@yvonnereza4824]

She’s so Guilty!

[@moralfortitude...2217]

@@yvonnereza4824 *SOOOOOO GUILTY* !!!

[@Gidget_Lynn]

The prosecutions motive was beyond weak and she comes across as tone deaf. Ashleys testimony on the stand was strong but her beaten horse demeanor at the defense table comes off as ingenious. This is why you don't marry someone you've only known for 2 weeks.

[@bethnshermy]

The state keeps saying things that aren't right - they've been pushing me towards Ashley's side this whole time.

[@mrsvalaxie]

Came into this not knowing anything about this case. Based on the evidence and their history, I do think AB could have been scared for her life at the time of shooting him. Reasonable doubt for sure... I'd vote not guilty.

[@autosalesqueen]

My mom had 6 kids in 13 years of hell with my dad beating her in drunken rages. She couldn't say no to sex or he would beat her again.

[@vickimooredotco]

DV is so complicated. People are picking and choosing which evidence they want to believe to prove their point. I’m sorry about your childhood. It’s a tragic loss.

[@autosalesqueen]

@@vickimooredotco thank you,

[@lisajeter9511]

They only cry when the questions are hard. The easier questions there’s no crying at all! Not to mention NO TEARS AT ALL!

[@dit_vivi]

Why would anyone be packing whilst they are moving heavy boxes and furniture and taping up boxes and bending over, sweating, etc? I carry and wouldn't have it my bra or hip if I'm lifting, sliding and loading heavy boxes.

[@lanni8224]

She was a kid practically, getting married so quickly makes her feel more isolated, I am sure people/ friends/ family , “I told ya so”.. she thought this was her Prince Charming .. once your carrying your child ( mama bear starts realizing this won’t change ) . SHAME is real !

[@colorsflight6432]

I just see how the state is coming to all these outlandish theories of motive.

[@dionjohnson7643]

Wait, the prosecutor said Ashley KNEW the court system wasn’t working to protect her… not thought. Hmmm

[@annette2326]

I can't remember were I've seen this prosecutor before but she leaves me cold.

[@luciawilke5470]

Can't imagine living where this prosecutor lives and fear being put under her thumb if one is charged with something.