Longevity & Health: Exploring Seventh-day Adventist | Gary Fraser | The Proof Podcast EP

[@Viva-Longevity]

What a FABULOUS interview!! 👏👏👏 I have been fascinated with Gary and his research for two decades and I can't think of a better person to interview him than you. Awesome questions, awesome answers.

[@anthonyvickers5986]

You would have done a great job too Chris.

[@yvettefraser6125]

I agree!

[@gfmd123]

I agree would enjoy seeing an interview w you both

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Ghosted out comment... @ronhumphreys3762 2 hours ago (edited) @gfmd123 Around August Simon did one with Chris, which was quite good .Simon reports but is also offering push back when necessary to my opinion, which tends to bring thing out more clearly. Atta boys for our side serve no purpose to my opinion. .

[@stellarblur]

I always greatly enjoy your videos as well

[@Bree487]

Thanks Simon. This has been my favorite podcast so far on your channel. Practical, relatable and intelligent, applicable information. I am basically a whole foods omnivore, and will be rethinking my dairy and meat choices for sure. Excellent!

[@kathymcgraw4495]

Such a FANTASTIC informative interview!!! I can't thank you both enough for sharing all this research. So many questions answered. I love how thought provoking and professional your interviews are Simon. My life is better because of your work. Thanks again 👍

[@emilybarry9410]

Will be listening to this ☝️ again, thank you so much for interviewing ACTUAL researches! And your dedication to true science/health education Simon!

[@StephenMarkTurner]

Thanks Simon, and guests, for all the discussions this year.

[@johnhollar6001]

Truly one of the best interviews I have ever heard from you or anyone else. Truly outstanding. Thank you!!!!!

[@bluesouth9090]

One of the highest quality podcasts I have watched this year! Thank you both!

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Great video Simon I think the thing was represented completely with much skill on your part. Often these types of interviews degenerate into off point rambles...this is far from that, all the points are shown clearly, and questions asked all challenging and real. Kudos great job.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@cassandrabennett9446]

Great interview Simon. It’s so interesting to hear about the Adventist studies from an Adventist. Excellent work!!

[@jacquelinedella-santa2451]

This has got to be one of the very best interviews I have watched ❤❤❤

[@DrTomMD]

Gary Fraser is an international treasure. He has been very kind with his time for me as well. Many emails. Excellent insights Not sure if the professor mentions it but vegan also have an advantage in there very low renal acid load, which is good news for bones

[@marianblum1064]

Excellent, comprehensive interview! Love your open-mindedness! I would like to see a deeper dive on the topic of Omega 6:3 ratio, and neurological conditions in older vegans!! I've been eating lots of almonds, sunflower seeds, cashews, etc and wondering if I may be overdoing the Omega 6's even though I'm taking DHA+EPA = 700 mg daily.

[@toddhostetler6552]

Excellent interview. Though the data is epidemiological, it speaks volumes to the benefits of the vegetarian lifestyle. Moreover, the studies were reproducible. I’ve not read the Adventist studies but plan have added them to my list. Thanks, Simon, for your podcast. As a physiology and anatomy professor, I appreciate your approach to nutrition. Thanks!

[@metalmunkey42]

Excellent interview/info. I was more excited when I saw this in my notifications than I was about Christmas. Cheers Simon!

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoyed it! Merry Christmas

[@martykendall5111]

Great to dig past the headlines into some of the complex nuances. The SDAs have been studying nutrition longer than most but it'is still a young science. So much left to learn - definitely an exciting space.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Well they have but I at some point have to step into this lovefest and say..wait a minute. The woman leader in the church, who advocated for basically WFPB, also had some very strange notions about vinegar and some other things thought very very bad for us, based upon not a bit of science seemingly. They studied it but some of that study was completely off base. Actually I ran into that vinegar suggestion again in the early 2000's talking to one I knew. So I guess it is still out there. They mention the good science and this is that, but skip those things. It reminded me of Mormonism some times you run into odd parts to it. Not a knock on either religion as many find comfort in them.

[@ladagspa2008]

Good choice of guest!

[@lindseym1409]

Thoroughly enjoyed this interview. Thank you Simon for all your hard work and keeping us educated!

[@gsmith6881]

Thank you Simon, and Dr Fraser - extremely interesting.

[@Hollysuzette33]

That was so spectacular. Simon, how masterful.

[@greggbambu411]

A,wonderful episode. To have free access to this information is fantastic

[@louisehibbert9768]

Great interview 🙌. But there are too many people for everyone to be pescetarian - the sea are already over fished, damaged and polluted with plastic by the fishing industry 😢 I'll stick with algae oil 👍

[@hollysharvest]

As a non-Adventist who has worked as a scientist at Loma Linda University for more than 13 years now, I find the idea that the church is somehow influencing the results of the Adventist Health Study to be completely bizarre to the point of being laughable. And, yes, I do actually know and work directly with people who publish off the AHS data.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

I am against all organized religion as I find them all corrupted, speaking perhaps to this day and age. However, I know have known many seventh day Adventists, and what they do is never cheat things. They typically are honest about things. I expect some cheaters and liars can be found among them, no group is isolated from that , But to represent systematically, as in a official study, and to purposely influence outcome, I also find a preposterous notion. It is just not how they are by group. Their researchers seem to reflect that completely.

[@lake5pilot]

Ok but unless you show your evidence, this comment is just a claim.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@lake5pilot How can someone produce evidence of no corruption. If no corruption is presenting or evident then obviously no evidence can be found to recommend it. You can not prove such a thing by evidence when nothing is the thing being subject to discussion. What is the proof when nothing or zero is the thing, zero times anything is zero always.

[@lake5pilot]

@@ronhumphreys3762 Ok then what was the point of your comment then if we can never know for sure what you're saying is plausible? We don't know who you are so are we supposed to trust you? Just trying to figure how this information you gave is actually valuable to us.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@lake5pilot I expressed my personal experience of seventh day adventists who do not cheat at things to my experience. It s observation not a claim. Are you holly? No then what business is it of yours what I say to her on her comment? Why should I show evidence of personal experience? You want a study on my personal experiences? A book then? .

[@elizabethdudenhausen3541]

Again, great listen! Appreciate the clarity.

[@RXP91]

Love the challenging questions on theism and science. The info on omega 6 interfering with epa production was new to me. Thanks

[@SilverFan21k]

YO. Awesome video title! Definitely grabbed my attention. love healthspan and life extension! ❤

[@LaurentSaintJean]

We need more open minded research on low fat vs higher fat plant based diet. I've happily switched to VeganSOS (low sodium, low oil, low fat diet) for over a year; I had recent blood test done, with a massive drop in Vitamin D and Pregnenonolone levels, both well bellow recommended range. I also have super low LDL and Triglycerides. My question is VitD and PREG both need fat to assimilate so I suspect my current diet may be too low in fat?. Thanks again for another educating talk on human nutrition Simon. Merry Christmas from France :)

[@Joseph1NJ]

Test it for yourself. Eat a small amount of walnuts daily and see what happens. Studies of n=1 can be very relevant especially if the 1 is you.

[@k.h.6991]

Low LDL and triglycerides is a good thing. Supplement vit d. But yes, you may have gone too low on fat: do include nuts, seeds and a bit of nut butter occasionally.

[@Fearzero]

Definitely add sprouted walnuts and pumpkin seeds to your diet. Don't forget about iodine. 1 tsp of ground dulse will keep thyroid healthy. Also 1 Brazil nut daily for selenium. Cook all greens to lower oxalates.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

I follow Gill Carvelo his series of interviews and digestion of matgerials a bit, and think fat may be overdone as to mortality risk. Animal fat I think there is a very significant correlation in cardiac form and some plant fats such as palm. And the ratio of fat by type must be kept reasonable. But cacao and perhaps avocado, saturated fat in them, I simply cannot find a adverse impact study. I trust however more cacao than avocado, so use chocolate with a very high dark chocolate cacao composite, with very little sugar in it. Of course no milk. But there appear to be several benefits found in cacao use in study possibly related to sat fat as a component some theorize. I think it may be related to neurological protection and function as replacement of those type things. Our bodies utilize our internal cholesterol mechanism of production for various things. Of course we do not need to eat it that is absurd. But is that assisted by various and sundry differing fats consumed? I vegan for 30 plus years in diet but do eat honey as a exception.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Yes I eat a bit (not much) of chocolate each night ;) Resting HR in my seventies 55 typically, normal on average BP 110/60 Aerobic and resistance often weekly. Suppose I am Ok, Tastes great hard to skip that ;) But perhaps I am rationalizing and it is really bias.

[@yvettefraser6125]

Awesome as usual but my favorite episode to date!

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@eliteboxfitness]

A layered discussion. Thanks for breaking it down

[@belwynne1386]

Great interview! Thank you.

[@perry_123]

This interview was amazing so full of well researched information and as always Simon your interview skills are always on point.... Thank you.....🍐🍏🍎🥭🍍🍌🍋

[@anawilliams7342]

Brilliant!

[@hamakua484]

Excellent and compelling interview. Thanks to both of you.

[@sigodudando8583]

Good conversation as usual.

[@MmartinL]

Excellent guest, as always. 👏

[@wallyrbc]

Loved this interview! Thought the BMI discussion, optimal being between 23 and 25, interesting. A number of plant based doctors feel it’s best to be at the lower end of the BMI spectrum, say 19.

[@wallyrbc]

I’m going to have to listen again. Maybe he didn’t say this range is ideal!

[@louisehibbert9768]

​@@wallyrbc I got that impression too (although they didn't talk about what the issues may be if you are lower) but that does potentially seem quite high unless you have a lot of muscle 🤔

[@virginiemazy7054]

@@wallyrbcyes he said something in that direction and then Simon asked about the lower BMI having negative effects . But don’t ask me where is was. It stroke me as my BMI is 23,7. I thought 😅😅😅😅

[@Richard-eg6fw]

Thanks Simon! Great interview!

[@terrymcnee3568]

These health podcasts show ME the human body is an incredibly complex being in nutrotion processes. Obviously evedience of INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Not just s big uncontrolled accident called evolution which ignores the fact that life cannot spring from NON life. cheerd

[@VeganLinked]

I love the set work here! This is a really great production I wish I could be on a production team like this :-) I almost can do it all on my own including the interview but not sure it will ever reach this level flying solo. Slow that slider down lol! :) I would love to know what this was shot with. I just got the FX30 and want to get an FX3. I have three a6600's I've been using for the last few years. Is that an FX3 on that slider? Are all three cameras the same? S log3?

[@brendafosmire6519]

Thank you

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@nadege_diercks]

Such a great episode Simon, thanks a lot! Which papers would you suggest one can read to dive into the Adventist research, there are so much of them, I'm looking for ones that give a broad outlook. And could you also refer the one about DNA methylation? Thanks a lot for all you're bringing to us with your podcast, it's really a treasure of wisdom and practical knowledge!

[@VeganLinked]

1:43:22 thank you for coming back around to this! I want to know what the vegans were eating in the study that compared them to the pescatarians were the pescatarians did better longevity wise. He didn't really answer your question by saying vegetarians ate better. This is super annoying. Well what about the vegans? And what does that even mean they ate better? If someone stops eating animals for ethical reasons this doesn't necessarily mean they know what to eat in place of those animals. So if someone's pescetarian I imagine they're doing it more for health reasons. The vegans in Loma Linda might be eating those Loma Linda hot dogs because they're not really animals even though they're processed and not a good replacement for fish. Fish was last to go for me in 2010. But I didn't know really how to eat properly until about 2016. So I was vegan 6 years before I even realized what flax and ALA is. There's absolutely a learning curve to going vegan even lifelong vegans who have been for 50 plus years are still learning and fine tuning things. So if your cohorts have only been for a decade this doesn't sound very exciting in the grand scheme of things especially if you keep failing to elaborate on precisely what their nutrition was specifically.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

I could not find a specific reference in the study to what is referenced as processed foods. I think they mean highly processed as in whole wheat as opposed to refined bleached wheat that type of thing, but really couldn't find it. Processed leaves a lot of ground and people say processed what they mean typically is highly processed. Sugar containing white flour those things cheap oils, He addresses this a bit by the talk on fake meats. Some is whole food based some is not(junk) based it depends, but both are processed. One would be highly processed the other not. To my experience 7th day who do diet, eat plenty of processed like rice, which is processed typically for ingestion. But not highly processed cakes and things like that. Pescatarian in the study I did find in associated literature from the research arm of loma linda university was lacto ovo pescatarian.

[@VeganLinked]

​@@ronhumphreys3762The main thing is what did they eat in place of meat? Ethical vegans might not figure this out for many years if ever. So did they control for this somehow and if so very specifically how? It seems like a really obvious question to me.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@VeganLinked Toward the end they mention the differences in the various plant based meats. Highly processed or not processed as much. Seventh day adventists used to own a company going by two names, back in the day before the 1990's which had mostly fake meats in cans. One name was loma linda. They are still around, but they sold it off to Nabisco I think. I used to eat the stuff am not seventh, but back then it was the only thing or make your own. I did that again in lock down. Now great but Ok. Now it is frozen or refrigerated all buy not stuff in cans. Some of theirs now are back packing packet stuff. But much still in cans About half of it is vegan, the rest vegetarian. Back then I had to check the ingredients as it was not marked. I assume longevity study had to include those vegans who ate the stuff, same as I did. Seventh members ran the company. It was soy minimally processed but with some things added which are not so healthy to enhance the look or texture. I could check I still have some from lock down around.

[@VeganLinked]

​@@ronhumphreys3762they did not deep dive into what the vegans were eating. I want to know how vegans eating legumes, greens, grains, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs and spices and a proper variety of each compares not just random vegans. Most vegans don't know how to replace what they were eating right off the bat. It may take some many many years before they understand how to do this. It took me over 6 years. And I'm still learning 13 years into this. And I interview a lot of vegans and even vegans who have been for their whole life even over 70 years are still learning how to fine tune things. I've been two different kinds of vegans and I would like to know how they've controlled for this because they did not address that at all even at the end. All Gary said at the end was the vegetarians ate better. This doesn't even make sense. What about the vegans? And if they ate better than why did they not live as long?

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@VeganLinked Well yes this study did not have that result to that specific degree. So your criticism in that regard is valid. Do they have other studies that do that, I am sure some are out there. I don't have the time to look them up, but multiple studies on vegans and longevity are out there and even more on specific disease processes. If I were looking for specific items of exclusion or inclusion in vegan diets I would look under the general heading of vegan diets, and specific disease outcomes and theory, diabetes cardiovascular and on and on. Longevity many I suspect would not go to that degree of actual content. That would require a look see at actual study methodology which would be in the paper itself not typically in the abstract. So it would be a bit of work to hash it out. These are seventh day adventists who often trend of color and are working class peoples by a majority. They are not nutritionists or academics, nor of high income. We can assume they eat much normal type things even when vegan, not exotic specially prepared whole food plant based nutritional items. Mashed potatoes, as opposed to flame roasted no oil sauteed in no oil avocado bits grilled for a hour. The liquid in the mash may be almond milk. A UK vegan nutritional study I expect we may find more of that. Just guessing but I have some familiarity with the group and that is it.

[@69camaro19]

Thank you for this.

[@NicholasHallows]

Enjoyed listening to this as I munched my way through my ultra processed vegan Christmas chocolates... 😮

[@ronhumphreys3762]

HAH Someone left a apple pie vegan after dinner at my place here. And of course within two days I ate most of it, and rarely eat simple sugars which this had loads of. I don't know if I caught a stomach flu or it was the pie, the next day Tuesday I felt so off I could not even go to the gym......... sucked. Felt better wednesday however, legs went great !!

[@deel2435]

Simon has the research and interview influenced your food choices now? Are you considering or have you moved to a Vegetarian or Pescatarian diet? Given the possible risks of cognitive decline AND the absolute risks of all cause mortality. Would love to see a vid with your take on things now. I've yet to find a suitable source of Omegas to supplement that don't contain potentially carcinogenic carrageenan.

[@greyhnd001]

I'm 53 and have the blood pressure of a 20 year old from a doctor I went to. I told her it was because I was on a whole food plant diet. I saw her gears turning. but didn't want to learn it

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Docs can be odd about blood pressure to my experience. I was a youngish guy back in the day but my hobby was power lifting training. I was very even than vegan for several years so BP was never a problem, despite a family history. My work outs were 2 hours plus always, that following a mountain running hobby for years at high altitude, I would peak for the Pikes peak run. 12,000 feet, I think. However, I went to a urgent care to treat a ankle injury the doc sight unseen really of my BP, began talking. Not to treat for the primary issue, but said to me in conversation you have to take care with your blood pressure, that is the thing for you this ankle is OK. She did not have my BP at that time. I am a lot lighter now than my then 35 or so pounds heavier, but a vegan for so many years I really have to worry the down side not up. I get a flu or something my BP gets really low like 90/50 low. Which exasperates the illness somewhat. So I take some salt on my food it returns to the normal 110/60 on average.My resting HR is always in the fifties. Really sauna use after cardio my normal regime, I have to take care to eat salt. I guess she was treating my visual appearance not me. And I am not really strict strict strict with my vegan diet. I do it for less harm not health

[@natalieamore8195]

❤Great interview! Shared

[@maryhandlename]

Does anyone know if the study about the possible increase in neurological conditions on a vegan diet have been published yet? I am not finding it in pubmed. Thanks!

[@VeggoFix]

Could the (potentially) higher risk of neurological conditions in older (almost) vegans as be partially explained by vitamin B12 deficiencies at that age or earlier in life? Were 7th day adventists always recommended to take B12 supplements? Also, how much higher is this risk compared to that of pescatarians and omnivores? Do you know when these study results come out of peer review?

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Studies on the subject do not show a predominance of higher risk of dementia among vegans. Select studies may show that, than others may show a opposite effect, protective. No one study to include this one, is considered to be substantial enough to determine certainty. That is found in a meta-analysis of studies on the subject, typically a hundred or so. WHO recommendations on meat were the subject of more than a thousand studies, per example. No one early on were advised to supplement B!12 it was just not a known thing back before 1980 or so. Here from a meta analysis of 140 plus studies, are vegans typical nutritional deficiencies compared to omnivores, both have deficiencies. " A total of 141 studies were included, mostly from Europe, South/East Asia, and North America. Protein intake was lower in people following plant-based diets compared to meat-eaters, but well within recommended intake levels. While fiber, polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), folate, vitamin C, E and magnesium intake was higher, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) intake was lower in vegetarians and vegans as compared to meat-eaters. Intake and status of vitamin B12, vitamin D, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium and bone turnover markers were generally lower in plant-based dietary patterns compared to meat-eaters. Vegans had the lowest vitamin B12, calcium and iodine intake, and also lower iodine status and lower bone mineral density. Meat-eaters were at risk of inadequate intakes of fiber, PUFA, α-linolenic acid (ALA), folate, vitamin D, E, calcium and magnesium."

[@ronhumphreys3762]

I personally consider vitamin B12 deficiency to present in a overt finding not a long term finding. That will present with very many neurological deficits, loss of cognitive capacity may be minor to those. Inability to conduct motor impulses walk talk do things, chronic deterioration of muscles and nerves and their conduction pathways the spine for instance, those are things showing and not related to old age. Such a person would present with dementia but likely they receive diagnosis and treatments before that event.B12 deficiency would probably exasperate dementia however if a person had that already. In the cognitive realm as regards old age, veganism tends against plaque build up in arteries, which is a secondary cause of dementia, due to lower blood flow in arteries supplying the brain. That could be countered by a increased homocystein level apparent with a B12 deficiency. But both those are abstract classical Alzheimer's which may be considered a entirely separate mode of causation not yet determined. B12 deficiency typically takes five years to present as we accumulate and retain it. In general... In places where it is not supplemented in food, the UK, it presents in study in vegans. In places where it is widely supplemented in food, the US, it does not present as deficiency in study. It is highly recommended to supplement it if vegan. There is typically no higher risk of B12 deficiency in more current demographical study on vegans in the US. It is found in many vegan common foods supplemented such as plant milks and others, and many now supplement it.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Nutritional yeast which I dimly recall, was a common seventh day adventist food spice was and is commonly including of B12 added into it. Most of our supplements are of oil derivatives or by yeast growing methods, and then are vegan. The most common brand just always had B12 in it. `That was Braggs I think it was. I have never heard of sevenths with overt B12 deficiency, but probably some are out there as all groups have outliers.

[@VeggoFix]

@@ronhumphreys3762 Thank you for your detailed answer. It is too bad that in the video they are not able to specify which exact conditions the researchers found, because you are completely correct that several studies have shown a positive effect of plant-based diets on brain health via a couple of different mechanisms. Until we see their study results in detail it is hard to say anything.

[@VeggoFix]

@@ronhumphreys3762 Just as a side note: There are studies showing B12 deficiency in seventh-day adventists in Australia where vegan foods are (at least now) B12 fortified. Hokin et al. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 This issue is likely mostly resolved at the moment, but it is questionable if fortified foods were the solution because producers are allowed to call their products fortified at 15% RDA per 100g or portion in most countries no matter if the product must be heated for consumption or not. (B12 degrades with heat) Additionally, the RDA of B12 is based on 3 times daily intake which is about 30 times lower than the once-daily intake. So supplementation is more likely to prevent B12 deficiencies. We decided to fortify our products with more than 1/3 of the RDA because of these issues, but we would still recommend people not to rely on fortified foods alone for their daily B12 intake.

[@kst157]

Simon or listeners - Dr. Gary Fraser refers to Pescatarians - some definitions *exclude dairy & eggs / others *include those … which Pescatarian definition applies here & to the Seventh-Day Adventist? Many thanks. (Also, he said he personally likes to include a little yoghurt & cheese but what about eggs?)👍

[@k.h.6991]

Eggs are full of cholesterol. I would guess that this is the reason he didn't mention eating eggs.

[@plantbasedposer]

When I read the study where the pescatarians did better than the vegans, it didn't seem to me like they included dairy and eggs, but there was no limit on how much fish (although heavy metals might keep that amount in check as per guidelines).

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Found it!!!!! Took quite a while, and I had always assumed it was only fish but it is not. From the seventh day Adventist site itsel, so this is fact.. " 10% are pesco-vegetarian (eat fish, milk and eggs but no red meat or poultry)> Thanks now I know something I did not. One thing learned each day this is that !!!

[@ronhumphreys3762]

I do vegan for ethical reasons and global warming, so I will continue in that but...This is the longest living group among women. So it changes my whole perception of the thing. Men vegan live longest. But woe is me, someone will say in discussion how can you say that? and with new search being concerned with only selling items, not answering questions to include the AI part by design...I will play heck to find it again ;( But I guess the seventh day Adventist research arm did a special digest of the studied results, which is where it is found. Curiously the Pub med library of medicine study stuff do not really address it.

[@kst157]

@@ronhumphreys3762Thank you so much! 👍

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

I’m a gluten-free, dairy free, corn free, WFPB pescatarian. I get an allergic reaction when I eat wheat or corn. Dairy breaks me out. I eat fish 4-5 times a week and I’m WFPB the rest of the time. My BMI is 19.9. Based on what he said about BMI, would I be underweight? I’m 5’6 and 124 pounds. Great episode btw!

[@ronhumphreys3762]

We are all individual what is underweight? Things to caution with at the BMI is to make sure muscle mass is retained with age. We normally lose 1% per year typically after the age of 40, If you are a low BMI that pans out to not much when you are 69 plus. So you must exercise and maintain protein levels probably at a minimum of 1.2gm per KG of body weight up to 1.6. If training like a athlete perhaps you are a distance runner, you may go as high as 2 gm per KG. Assuming no kidney nor liver disease present.Kidney disease is assisted in being kept under control by restriction of protein, but nothing suggests more protein(under 300 gms or so daily) cause detrimental kidney effect. This is often confused aerobics By a 2020 meta analysis of studies, which then included 700,000 people as grouping, under stud, in excess of the RDA was found beneficial for those under a stress of losing weight or exercising heavily. That was the only study referencing above the RDA to be performed with a large study grouping meta analysis cohort. More muscle mass was retained or grown. I can produce the study title and abstract but it may take a while. Low weight has benefit but also potential detriment I have described.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Hmm aerobics should read....... aerobics and resistance exercise must both be endeavored.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Here took a while ;) Protein Intake Greater than the RDA Differentially Influences Whole-Body Lean Mass Responses to Purposeful Catabolic and Anabolic Stressors: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis Joshua L Hudson Yu Wang Robert E Bergia III Wayne W Campbell Under stressful conditions such as energy restriction (ER) and physical activity, the RDA for protein of 0.8 g · kg−1 · d−1 may no longer be an appropriate recommendation. Under catabolic or anabolic conditions, higher protein intakes are proposed to attenuate the loss or increase the gain of whole-body lean mass, respectively. No known published meta-analysis compares protein intakes greater than the RDA with intakes at the RDA. Therefore, we conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis to assess the effects of protein intakes greater than the RDA, compared with at the RDA, on changes in whole-body lean mass. Three researchers independently screened 1520 articles published through August 2018 using the PubMed, Scopus, CINAHL, and Cochrane databases, with additional articles identified in published systematic review articles. Randomized, controlled, parallel studies ≥6 wk long with apparently healthy adults (≥19 y) were eligible for inclusion. Data from 18 studies resulting in 22 comparisons of lean mass changes were included in the final overall analysis. Among all comparisons, protein intakes greater than the RDA benefitted changes in lean mass relative to consuming the RDA [weighted mean difference (95% CI): 0.32 (0.01, 0.64) kg, n = 22"

[@ronhumphreys3762]

I run into low protein vegan advocates lost in studies of the 1990's typically all the time. Worm study in vitro and in vivo study shows lower protein and sometimes lower calories overall enhance longevity. However more recent studies since about 2015 or so, show clearly the disadvantages to long life of sarcopenia and its relative osteoporosis in relation to longevity. in....can you believe it!!! actual humans. Putting the two togethe,r we must exercise and keep protein at optimal, not minimal levels, to preserve muscle mass. Of course none of this applies to fattish americans who do not exercise. No exercise or like activity and protein consumption makes no matter at all. But we are all now advised to exercise. So the real state of americans is not the optimal or best normal for americans. Vegans tend lower BMI as do athletes, so muscle mass is a issue with age in this grouping. Protein aholic the book, was published in 2015, so the studies in it (referring mainly to meat proteins). of basis were 2013 or earlier. Sarcopenia conclusive effects on longevity were not then a known, but a theory. This above RDA study is 2020. The first of its kind. It is widely published, peer reviewed fully accredited, and all nutritionists attests to it as a valid finding.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

For longevity weight is a bell curve. To my opinion you are fine to one side of that but not by much. I would not sweat your body weight as a isolated phenomenon. It is simply not a problem health wise To my opinion.

[@ChessMasterNate]

I think a large study should be made that uses photos from smartphones. People would take pictures of everything they ate, and what they ended up not eating and discarding (30 days, maybe 60 days). People would still have to remember to take the pictures, But I think it would be better. And maybe a small optional audio file can be included where they say what it is, and if it is a restaurant, what the name is. And I would use AI to identify the foods, how much it has been processed in preparation (how much cooking, blending, fermentation) and ingredients. I think the effects of preparation methods are greatly underestimated. And, yes, blood data is very important too. I would also want more than just what they ate, and blood work (I like the idea of adding that resting lactase test, and keeping some blood frozen for tests that might be available in the future), and the normal vitals. I would want all sorts of things, but realistically, there is only so much that is economical to do, nonetheless, a lot of data: hang time on a horizontal 2-inch diameter wood pole, balancing measures (time able to balance on one foot with and without eyes open and each leg...maybe average of 3 tries), vision (eye health not necessarily prescription. This can be a stand-in for some brain health measures. And would include a high resolution picture of the retina, for AI or future experts), hearing, skin measures, flexibility, reaction time, pain in movement measures, body composition with body comp scale (perhaps augmented with a small sample getting DEXA scans to see if any adjustment of the scale data is appropriate), and some quick memory measures. We need these things, because these are the things people care about. They don't just care about how old they are when they die, but the health of their last 30 or 40 years.

[@theslacker]

hi everyone. i have a question. i understand milk is a prostate cancer risk no matter the fat content since the protein is the culprit. what about kefir or yogurt? even though they're fermented, they contain the same proteins.

[@beepbeepnj2658]

If it's non machine homogenized then it is good so whole milk Sheep yogurt is naturally homogenized so it is good and prevents all disease since it has a natural source of Vitamin A1, B12, K2, Iodine, Sulfur, C15:0, Sphingolipids, Omega 7.

[@k.h.6991]

Good question. Since the health risk of any animal based food is the amino acid composition, I don't think fermentation mitigates all health risks of dairy. That said, if you are going to consume dairy, yoghurt and kefir are probably among the healthier options.

[@stellarblur]

As far as studies on protein and muscle, low protein diet mice, Didn't grow used to the weighted cart as fast as high protein, But eventually ended up being as strong as high protein diet mice, But the low protein lived 30% longer

[@pamelajensen5961]

Why are they not bringing up what the fish eat? Why can’t we supplement for omega-3 with algae? I take a clean version of that from Nordic naturals. Every time I hear the omega-3 debate brought up nobody talks about algae. Am I missing something?

[@k.h.6991]

Dr. Greger does recommend sea salad in his latest book.

[@pamelajensen5961]

@@k.h.6991 made with fish?

[@k.h.6991]

Nope: wakame I think. I expect a recipe in his upcoming cookbook.

[@k.h.6991]

Most health conscious vegans go for DHA and EPA supplements, based on algae. Mostly because of practical reasons I think. The Japanese have obviously found ways to include algae naturally,. Congratulations if you also manage that.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@k.h.6991 Yes DHA and EPA in the supplements are derived from algae. How much algae would we have to consume to arrive at those quantities...my guess is very very much. We can get algae in supplemental form but then it is again a supplement. It is now still not equal in price to fish oil but not all that bad. Dropped a lot in the last five years.

[@rexfowler7710]

Great episode. Was this is CA or Australia? Visually, I actually love the non-black backdrop (sorry Rich), although it was kinda hard to tell if this was a zoom interview or if you guys were in the same location. If the latter, would love to see more shots of the conversation across the table.

[@tomedwards1879]

Hi Simon, like all of your work, this interview was very good and full of valuable health information. I'm not a Seventh Day Adventist or particularly religious. But I didn't understand why you asked him about his views on Evolution? I thought it was kind of intrusive, unnecessary and irrelevant. Just my opinion.

[@jakobw135]

What do you and your guest say to the observations made by Dr Michael Greger and others, regarding veganism versus animal consumption, from the META EVIDENCE? And yes, there are PCDB studies showing that veganism is the overall best diet.

[@gfmd123]

Dr. Greger is great - and I guess the issue is how much benefit from being whole food plant based vs. doing this with some minimal additional agents. The other important item is that AHS subjects are not whole food plant based (many eat a fair bit of processed foods), so there is likely much more benefit to be had by this approach than what is being discussed in AHS. The most important message I take from this, is that we need to be vigilant around supplementing EPA/DHA and checking our Omega 3 index regularly, as this seems a real risk; and then making sure we have adequate dietary calcium as part of our diet. That is my approach personally, and I'll skip the cheese/yogurt and fish for the time being. The points made in this discussion are a useful addition to our knowledge and give due warning in a couple of areas that plant based individuals must keep in mind to further optimize their healthspan.

[@jakobw135]

@@gfmd123 What is AHS? P.S. Greger is talking about whole UNPROCESSED plant foods.

[@gfmd123]

@@jakobw135 AHS is Adventist Health Study. I'm not sure of any substantive difference in the terminology of Whole Food Plant Based and Unprocessed - unless one is going to consider tempeh or tofu processed - and then I'll say I eat those also. We have no processed foods beyond that, and consider ourselves WFPB. I think Greger has primarily been promoting that and certainly supports things like tofu as part of a healthy diet. My point was more that one needs to recognize potential dietary deficits in ones diet, regardless of what that deficit is, especially if there can be health consequences. At the point that it is highly suspected that adverse neurological outcomes (stroke, parkinson's, cognitive decline - dementia) might be present in vegans - and the likely solution for this might be an adequate direct source of EPA/DHA - I'd think we'd all want to supplement and measure, the same was as we do with our B12, for example.

[@jeffreywp]

@@jakobw135AHS = Adventist Health Studies

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@gfmd123 To add to the processed food part of the seventh day Adventist study participants, yes indeed the church membership some of them, did have a related processed food business for many years, canned foods in the main. Now many decades ago having been sold away to a food company,. That was as loma linda foods and by another name which escapes me. So we can assume many or some, did eat that, I ate the stuff during lock down, and really it is still pretty good for what it is. Frozen surpasses it however or refrigerated. But back then vegan or even vegetarian there were not many meat substitutions available. Tofu or make your own was fake meat. I ate it about once a week though I am not seventh day but was around back then and around them a lot. I expect in those under study over 65 or so participants that intake would reflect somewhat. There was no rule widely followed against processed that I am aware of.

[@robertstambulovski]

Psalm 90:10 The span of our life is 70years or 80 if one is especially strong . But they are filled with trouble and sorrow.They quickly pass by and away we fly '''' Vegetarian or non Vegetarian everyone has the same outcome in the end ' Do the best you can but don't be overly anxious '

[@chuckleezodiac24]

Dr. Fraser: "What would i recommend as the best diet? Low dairy, lacto-ovo vegetarian with cheese & yogurt, B12 supplements, some fish & flax seeds."

[@ronhumphreys3762]

WE may take one finding from the study..... best is relative. Who lives longest in it..for women it was pescatarian these vegetarians who however also ate eggs and dairy to include fish, but for men it was vegan or sometimes called strict vegetarian. Point being diet is individual and is our response to it. A heavy no exercise american with high cholesterol, probably vegan is best for quite a while. A low BMI athlete who is in competition maybe pescatarian or some other variant for performance as prime. Needing high caloric density. It depends All must include some amount of WFPB we can safely assume.

[@HectorGonzalez-ki9qs]

Great interview! Simon, Can you make a video about debunking Dr. Berg latest publications about red meat

[@ronhumphreys3762]

I don't think simon does much debunking mostly he interviews though a debunk by subject material may be in it. Plant Chompers Chris McCaskill I think is your bet for that. He has vegan bias to my opinion though I am vegan, I see it, but it is only occasional. Really most of his work is completely valid and scientifically based. Some like Mic the vegan are just not really factually showing all sides to things, Chris tries to do that and mostly succeeds.. .

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Gil Carvello has debunked Dr Berg prior on other issues. He does not advocate for veganism in health he supports a Mediterranean diet as best, but I think he is vegan in practice.

[@terrymcnee3568]

I have noticed unfair bias in some podcasts. BUT I can testify to truth in the fact that I have eaten wheet bix gor 70 years. Still healthy. no meds. i am now ketoVor and enjoying it. Lifestyle matters. Smoking killed my father. cheers

[@terrymcnee3568]

To me the big PICTURE is about longer good health Not extra length of life. It has worked for ME cheers

[@VeganLinked]

1:14:34 😂 "that's news to me" too

[@aldovirooo]

Taking my algae omega 3 supplements and letting the fish live their best life in the sea where they belong 💚

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Hey have to say this as well...comments are a bit sparse, but kudos to that aspect of this site as well, not a single solitary troll comment here to be found. All well-reasoned and well intentioned. How rare is that on you tube nutritional videos.....about one in a thousand to my opinion. What is going on Simon? How do you do this? Is intelligent conversation with a real push back, and look see at the subject material, then the key? I suspect it may be !!!

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Not sure! All I know is my mantra is to follow my curiosity and stay open minded

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Have to remand this...the trolls have shown up obviously. It is spontaneous generation theory I guess, any simple mention of a vegan diet and they appear as if out of no where.

[@candrad]

They probably get more sunlight which is healthier in Lo Melinda 😊

[@bradstell2146]

I wonder if being more raw vegan has any impact on the data discussed? Keep up the great work Simon.

[@Fearzero]

I would think not as more nutrients are able to be derived from cooking foods and our larger brains evolved as a result of cooking foods.

[@VeganLinked]

​@@Fearzerowell you're making empirical claims that I doubt you can back up. But indeed certain foods like tomatoes and carrots have been shown to have an increased nutritional profile and some foods that are extremely beneficial are better cooked like mushrooms.

[@Fearzero]

@@VeganLinked Look up human evolution. It's a fact.

[@VeganLinked]

@@Fearzero look up antagonistic pleiotropy if you're going to talk about evolution. What we ate in the past is a moot point to longevity and optimum health span. But clearly we depended largely on plants more than anything since we secrete amylase at the mere thought of eating to break down complex carbohydrates into glucose the preferred fuel source for cells in our body and brain. And we don't depend on eating animals at all like a true carnivore that depends on an exogenous source of taurine.

[@VeganLinked]

@@Fearzero but more importantly what we did to make it to the very young age of perpetuating our species, those behaviors may not be advantageous or conducive for super centenarian status.

[@aurelienb9109]

In all those studies, they do not discern between healthy and unhealthy vegan diets. There are many types of vegan diets.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Actually believe it or not diet quality is considered

[@aurelienb9109]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Oil versus no oil, raw vs cooked, sprouts vs no sprouts, microgreens vs no microgreens, high cruciferous veggies vs low cruciferous veggies, high fruits vs low fruits, etc... ? There are so many variables while only one category for "vegans"...

[@wendym2544]

Walnuts, flax seed and what? He mentioned if you eat enough walnuts, flax seed & ? you could get enough of something. Did anyone hear what the third thing was? I couldn't quite understand it. TY!

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Specific to walnuts he said they contain more polyunsaturated fats by predominance, which may lower cholesterol in blood effect. Mono saturated he said has a more neutral effect on that.

[@stay_cee]

chia seeds

[@k.h.6991]

Chia, flax and walnuts are dietary sources of omega 3 fatty acids (ALA). Chia and flax are also great sources of viscous fiber, which helps lower LDL cholesterol levels.

[@jesincov]

So basically whole food plant based with a little fatty fish then.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

WFPB is not used in study as it may mean almost anything. Keto peoples say that they are that when the have a steak and a bowl of greens, as the greens provide more volume(base) than the steak. Pescatarian or lacto ovo pescatarian, are used in study. In this study pescatarian(fish) are lacto ovo pescatarian but they just used the term pescatarian.. The woman who lived longest apparently ate fish and eggs and dairy curiously. But were other wise vegetarian The men longest living were vegan.

[@VeganLinked]

Unfortunately it's easy to hear that coming out of this one person's mouth. And unfortunately they didn't ever discuss whether or not it was a proper whole food plant-based diet replacing fish with legumes, greens, grains, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs and spices or just a bunch of ethical vegans eating Loma Linda hot dogs. There's a lot of confusing things in this interview that were not properly addressed or easy to follow possibly.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@VeganLinked The seventh day Adventists in general do it for thought health reasons not ethical ones. The founding source of their health aspects she also had some thoughts on vinegar and some other things which I think they no longer follow, That initiated about a century ago with her teachings on it. They are not junk food advocates and I actually can not remember them eating that, vegan ones at least. Not all follow the diet recommendations. But yes your overall criticism is valid it does not go really into specifics on the diet engaged other than in general fashion to include processed by quality. What exactly is that may be a bit subject to discussion.

[@Jeffs60]

@@ronhumphreys3762 Adventist is a false religion and her teachings, well the KJV bible that Adventists use is 100% against all her teachings as the actual verses in their own bible dictate which gender is to teach and be a leader and which meats, poultry, fish, dairy, wine and plant foods can be consumed and how they are to be cooked is listed with verified verses. Any human that changes the verses which Adventist does is a false religion and they will suffer what the actual verses dictate. You can read them for yourself. 100% of any study or anything with the term Adventist is to be thrown in the garbage based on evidence.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@Jeffs60 Well I have formal membership in a religion and training that predates Christianity and at heart probably even all the Abraham type derived religions. That being at core called now hindu with its multiple variants. Before that Brahmanism and before that very many other things. The reformation of Hindu which probably equals your presentation of christ, occurred with that religion 500 years prior to Christ, with several peoples leading that..Buddha and Jain, were at large devolving the caste system present in what was Brahmanism then. Christianity served that same reformation under the protestants years later. Hindu refers to a place it is not really a religion but represents thought of india. I won't say what is wrong or right in their religion. I know the people and can say I never found a one I did not like. Sounds pandering but no that is fact. Their religion is theirs not mine, I know what I follow and why pretty well. Them they know not me. I am very familiar with them in life experience, I know them well. You are a theologian then? Qualified to study and speak widely on religion? If you are not you just said a thing which is spoken poorly. My religion is then likely false as well and half the world then false as half do not folllow christian thought. And many not abraham derived religions at all.

[@sharkair2839]

He talks about nuts reducing cardiovascular risk. Does that include almonds? Cashews? Peanuts? What about sunflower seeds? Do people eat acorns and chestnuts?

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Hmm different nuts have different qualities. Walnuts are considered the nuts with the most beneficial effects overall . Seeds are seeds which are not nuts ;) however they seem to have similar effects which vary. Flax seeds are great for fiber but stripped of that as prime effect by grinding, they seem in study to pose several other benefits. Other seeds vary widely most do hold benefit, but it varies from bulk fiber to antioxidant and other benefit to include fat type found in them. Chia sesame the list is long. Acorns are lightly consumed as they must have their tannic acid removed by multiple washings in soaking water, they seem to have minor benefit by consumption health wise. Chestnust are not really widely consumed in america as the chestnut tree source is no more, but coming back. Other chestnuts like asian variety are possible but I have not heard of extensive benefit from them. They all vary seeds and nuts to expected benefit but consumed as opposed to like a donut makes perfect sense. Both are good snacks perhaps speaking of their longevity benefit in study. That is typically how we consume nuts as snacks, so then it is as opposed to what else which is typically unhealthy, junk. Peanuts are not nuts I hear but really a legume. Without salt and oil added they seem moderately healthy . I have heard some decry that loudly, but I think negative effect by study is not widely supported. Of normal nuts(I do not include myself in this category) I think cashews are least of benefit nutritionally. Almonds some benefit. Few are bad for us though so may be so consumed in excess as they are high caloric.

[@doctorsTmd]

Happy New Year to you and your entire family. Simon where is the data showing that ovo and pescetarians live longer than vegans? Vegans certainly have lower BMI,less hypertension and less diabetes all risk factors for coronary artery disease. our number 1 killer. I would appreciate your input.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

I am not simon, but those are the results of the study. Woman pescatarians who eat eggs and diary, live longest. Now among men who live by average shorter than woman, the longest living are vegan The study is ongoing and still producing results. I expect in time exact cause will be determined. Keep in mind perhaps, we now know things like sarcopenia affect longevity, and it it tied in directly to lower muscle mass and osteoporosis. Now just to venture a guess, and guess it is..who has lower muscle mass men or women? So who is more likely to suffer a early death due to sarcopenia, a woman who eats fish eggs and dairy or a vegan woman?. The lower BMI in vegans we can assume the vegan woman is more prone on average to sarcopenia when elderly. Men on average have a higher muscle mass so in that being vegan is not as critical Per example following a hip replacement due to fall, usually a evidence of sarcopenia and osteoporosis(they rare present singularly) a person has a in excess of 10% chance of dying within a year. 50% greater plotted out for seven years. longevity This is my conjecture so take that as you may. But I think it explains the findings. The findings are that. Sarcopenia until recently was neglected as a real cause of shorter life. Now we know it is. I think the findings are directly related to that but it really is not as yet studied.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

My last comment was deleted away. I produced a very large meta analysis which showed conclusively a relationship to the presence of sarcopenia and its result erosion of life span. I would have to check 52 studies I think in composite. No matter that was a 2022 study, but this thing in study it is literally exploding since 2015, there are multiple studies and even quite a few very good meta analysis. You can find them easily quary meta analysis study of sarcopenia and longevity. Individual studies not meta analysis, there are now much more than a hundred of recdent origin. Some good some not so good but the meta analysis ones trend good to very good, published and peer reviewed in multiple reputable medical journals and the NIH pub med base..

[@ronhumphreys3762]

My comments are being censored out for some reason. Ghosted or just deleted. Here hopefully this you can see, the title of the recent meta analyiss on this. "Sarcopenia Is Associated with Mortality in Adults: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis" Pub med NIH published. Quary the title and you will see the study for yourself one of very many now on the topic.

[@doctorsTmd]

@@ronhumphreys3762 Thanks for your input.I got the article you mentioned. We know that sarcopenia is not good but do you think that vegans are more sarcopenic than pesce lacto vegetarians?

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@doctorsTmd BMI study seems to suggest that. It is to my study, always vegans who trend lowest not vegetarians. Vegetarians trend lowest only if vegans are included into that study grouping. I don't think any have focused on that but it would explain completely why vegan men lived longest but women did not. Actually, by my read it is the only way to explain this finding in this study. Which is probably the best study on longevity out there. High BMI and really with the elderly, absent specifics like bed rest due to illness, sarcopenia is not a primary concern among care givers. Yes they may lose muscle, but so much is accumulated it does not go beyond that critical point. Low weight elderly is when sarcopenia presents. Vegan fracture rates, study performed in the UK, in reference to longevity, seem to affirm this also. But the study performers put that solely to osteoporosis not sarcopenia, But osteoperosis we now know is almost always combined with some degree of sarcopenia. Sarcopenia simply was not studied to this degree prior to 2015 to erode longevity as it is now known. All the grip strength studies are a test of muscle strength retention as a indicator of that, not how strong hands are. Hip fractures from fall seems the most detrimental thing obvious in study. Lack of stability is a muscle thing why they fall, that they break a hip is a osteoporosis thing, but the combination is the complete cause. Men more muscle mass to begin with, seventh day trend active by employment type to my observation, sarcopenia then being largely absent, explains why vegan men live longest. Vegan women did not. But with added in protein source, or perhaps just BMI itself,(that would need study) lacto ovo fish eaters women lived longest. Could be protein source or could be weight itself. Dairy and egg have almost perfect protein assimilation scores transitioning to muscle formation. Soy only of the isolated kind, in plants, is the only one on the vegan side. Whey is 102, egg is 100 soy isolate I think is 98.

[@bonnieschmidt5882]

If a “vegetarian” can sometimes also eat animal proteins like fish, eggs and/or dairy, what is the difference between a “vegetarian” and pretty much everybody else who eat an omnivore diet? Is it that they don’t eat land animals?

[@k.h.6991]

The difference is the amount. The Loma Linda semi vegetarians eat very little meat and dairy. Say once a week, instead of several times a day. But I agree that this terminology is confusing. The term flexitarian describes it better, I think.

[@carinaekstrom1]

Why would you eat fish instead of beans and an algae oil supplement? Makes no sense. And why fermented dairy when you can have fermented plant products?

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Makes sense to me. Probably preaching to the choir however. Appreciate the comment.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Why scientists refuse to include EPA DHA supplementation from plant source in their studies and in the actuality of discussion by nutrition influencers on it is beyond me. All we hear if fish oil fish oil fish oil...get over it, there is plant algae derived oil producing the same thing. F they just refuse to allow so much of plant nutrition and equalize always bad things from animal sourced things saying we plant based must avoid them also because.....+ There is never a answer to that.Nor a study to recommend that. I am still waiting for a study to attest to the erosion of life from plant based soy protein source on the actual of life, not just IGF-1 presence found upon consumption of soy.. It is quite likely IGF-1 protein binding factor eliminates any negative affect of soy with increased IGF-1 result. But we will never know as our plant docs do not recommend studying that, but just get on the bandwagon they remain..Protein stimulates IGF-1 production we must not eat any to excess lower is always better. Tell us then why? They cannot, no study has been done to that effect actual lifespan erosion from soy protein IGF-1 increased individuals. Only animal sourced ones. Though I do think to his credit Dr Greger has suggested plant sourced EPA DHA.Not so much soy protein though.

[@LVArturs]

Algae oil is more expensive. And most people don't give two shits about vegan ethical standards, so, really, any answer will do for those choices.

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@LVArturs Algae oil and beans are more expensive than fish? i don't think so. Anyway, this was about health, so it seems that the healthiest choice could be mentioned regardless.Then people can make a more informed personal choice.

[@LVArturs]

@@carinaekstrom1 there were cohorts in Fraser's research that had best results on non-vegan diets.

[@Nadine56924]

What is white Greek low fat yogurt or curd low fat skyr?😢

[@Mrm1985100]

1:58:03: Only the vegans had lower risk for prostate and breast cancer

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Cancers change by diet. I think I heard him saying at another point rectal cancers were lower in the milk eating groups. It varies

[@VeganLinked]

​@@ronhumphreys3762it would be so great to see what these people are actually even eating and drinking. If they're eating Loma Linda hot dogs because they're ethical vegans or if they're actually eating a proper variety of legumes, grains, grains, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs and spices and consistently exclusively for how long? I would have drilled that s*** and we would have all had to answer by now but for some reason it's hard to get people to do that

[@VeganLinked]

​@@ronhumphreys3762Cancer's changed by all kinds of variables and we still don't know so much about it.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

It gets very complex longevity considered. Those two are called hormonal dependent cancers. So what may impact that? Growth hormones. IGF-1 is a hormone which increases when eating a meat dairy heavy diet. It stimulates our internal production. But what else does IGF-1 do, it assists with neuro regeneration components necessary for brain and also assists in muscle growth. But it may incite tumors to grow also. Animal based stimulation of IGF-1 in study is shown to increase levels of cancers growth (most relatable to these two) which results in shorter life in that specific. Soy also by study increases IGF-1 with consumption but does not seem to translate to increased breast cancers, it may provide a protective effect with consumption. cognitive So it always does depend with diet our outcome and which is best. Genetic tendency by observations of our parents/grandparents may assist in our choice of diet which serves us best. Did they suffer cognitive defect in old age or was it breast cancer that sort of thing

[@VeganLinked]

@@ronhumphreys3762 Warburg effect, IGF-1, too much sun, not enough sun, not enough fun, and so on...

[@VeganLinked]

I'm really annoyed by this interview because I feel like you didn't drill him on what the vegans were eating that didn't do as well. This seems like such an obvious thing to me. Most vegans go vegan for ethical reasons and may not realize how to properly replace what they were eating before with whole plant foods. It took me 6 years before I realized what ALA and flax is. I've been vegan since 2011 and only eating right since 2017. I've been two different kinds of vegans. Veganism has been dominated by ethical vegans since the term was coined until very recently when access to science increased. It's only been in recent years that the health side of veganism has begun to surface. People going pescetarian are probably not doing this for ethical reasons but more for health reasons whereas the vegans are probably doing this more for ethical reasons. That needs to be controlled somehow. How's that ever been properly controlled in any of this? I want to know how someone eating legumes, greens, grains, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, and a proper variety of each exclusively compares. 80% of global food intake is plant. But only about 17% is whole plant food. I wonder what percentage of vegans are eating as I described. And I wonder what percent in your studies were eating as a described and for how long.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

A very big cause of eating vegan in the EU, and a bit the UK, is global warming remediation which I think you missed. Greta T Arnold S(who skips it sometimes) al gore, are all those type and I would say by majority of young vegans in the EU. I don't think this study is showing that so your criticism is valid. To my opinion. Other studies such as outcomes for specific disease processes do however, isolate out those. But they are typically much smaller and at times only showing those type outcomes not longevity. But many of them do abound. Processed food was studied out in this. 15% otr about that lower life expectancy (I think it is) for each group considered when prime. I have not reviewed that part personally. So at each age your chance of death increases 15% What exactly is processed foods to my opinion requires qualification. Certainly, no raw vegans were studied, so even adding heat to a thing is processing, but so is highly refined white flour bleached with chemicals. I think they mean or internally define it as highly processed. But it appears equal to all groups. Meat eaters do not have to be eating highly processed foods. .

[@VeganLinked]

@@ronhumphreys3762 Yes I remember the 15%, but this still does not tell us what they were eating. I could be eating whole foods by simply eating iceberg lettuce all day and bananas.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Junk food I think they must identify it as junk food ............high caloric but no known nutritional benefit other than calories. Candy cake you know. How many times daily weekly with meals without those things. Do you eat wild rice only but also eat processed whole grain rice, or fully processed white rice...I doubt they isolated out that kind of things, as it would be most difficult. But it is my assumption. I have been unable to find it.

[@VeganLinked]

@@ronhumphreys3762 often times people think they're eating healthy even when they're not. Even if they control for junk food or processed food as you say this does not tell us what they're eating it just tells us what they're not eating but they still might be eating the same thing just in a different way. Or they might not be eating a proper variety. The ideal would be someone who is eating legumes, grains, grains, fruits, veggies, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs and spices and a proper variety of each. But then even more nuanced would be are they eating freshly milled flax? A serving of walnuts? Chlorella? Avoiding omega-6 rich foods? Etc

[@ronhumphreys3762]

I have found studies of those kind identifying specific things in diet, such as Mediterranean this or that per portion in majority. But to get real specific on that excepting they are looking for the effect of one item in a diet, is very difficult. I think they set up the permeameters of each diet by type and then allow variance within each, but only acceptable variance. They screen out people in survey who say thinks like I am on a regular diet but I only live on olive oil, from the study. All junk saying they are vegan, I think those results would go in the trash. yes technically vegan, but really it is not the purpose of the study that. Unless it was a junk food vegan study. So they did isolate out processed, I can only assume they mean junk food or highly processed items easily identifiable as such. It would then be more of a check mark thing...how often do you eat white bread? how often do you eat cake or candy? This or that Rather than a description of their entire diet for this category. Do they get it all, probably not, but enough for statistical averages. I would guess a question on this specific would be how do you get your protein fake meats, beans lentils this or that. Fake meats would be the more processed item in the selection list. So that would average in with the others ,and then a determination or processed foods by kind. But is fake meat as processed as cake..no, so they have some metric for degree. Maybe in data recording fake meat is a three of five for response, cake is a five of five for that category of processed. I don't know but assume they must qualify it.Whole grain Rice is processed but not the equal of white bread consumed.

[@richardsenner4173]

IS IT THE DIET OR THE BED ROOM?

[@angelataylor2049]

I’ve only seen cave drawings of men with spears 🤔

[@abou8963]

Cow milk vs. Sheep milk

[@theradraider]

Conflict of interest much?

[@van123446]

again, if one studies committed to health vegetarians to general public junk food eating meat eaters.... well guess what you'll find. In other words,, you see and get what you look for.

[@chewiewins]

Unnecessary that remark about founder and sex stuff in otherwise great and helpful interview. Thanks

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

It’s all over the internet - I think it was worth discussing

[@chewiewins]

​@@TheProofWithSimonHillbut cringey, I get why you wanted it addressed I guess

[@VeganLinked]

​@@TheProofWithSimonHillI'm glad he addressed it. The only thing needed for evil to prevail is for good men to say nothing. So these good men said something to address it :)

[@DaniilDimitrov]

😂😂😂

[@aroundandround]

Despite watching all these videos and reading about nutrition, I have never found a single food item or way of eating making any perceptible difference to my health, fitness, or well being. Any freaking difference. All this nutrition science just seems like humbug. Or really really weak scientific evidence.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

How long have you eaten according to guidelines like the Danish guidelines?

[@aroundandround]

Thanks for responding. I grew up ovo-lacto vegetarian, then expanded to pesco for a few years, then ate everything for over a decade, and now am back to pesco; I’d say always intuitively Danish’ish. Also always been physically active, so it’s possible that there’s very little room left for improvement that tweaking diet can make to quality of life. Since I became a nutrition/fitness nerd some time back, I've been constantly surprised by the disparity between what's shown in papers (e.g., oats lower cholesterol and what not) and how nothing makes any difference when i try it. Fitness unlike nutrition is so different: training leads to clearly observable adaptation and improvement.

[@ronhumphreys3762]

Three things affect longevity in longevity study...community diet and exercise. To live longest and feal the greatest effect it is only when we have all three, and then the effect seems to work in synergy. And that is per our genetic tendency. It is longest per out geno type, The american or UK conception one single food element, or even one single diet, is going to cure it all, is probably mistaken. Just do one of the three and unless genetically gifted you probably are not going to live as long as you may have or many others do with all three.

[@imhassane]

I have the opposite experience from you. Whenever I eat saturated fats for a few months, my cholesterol is through the roof, kidneys metrics are declining, liver enzymes are way too high, blood pressure always une the 140-150s and when I add fiber and reduce animal fats, everything is optimal. I managed to reduce my cholesterol for instance to 130 by July this year then started eating saturated fats and here I am now at 170, AST/ALT levels are now up to the 60s. Following Simon’s advice seems to work for me

[@beepbeepnj2658]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Which person consumed the best diet? 1) Sylvester Graham the father of vegetarianism in the USA died at age 57. 2) William Alcott, founder of the American Vegetarian Society died at age 60, other member of the society Louisa Alcott died at age 56. 3) Jay Dinshah the founder and president of the American Vegan Society died at 66. 4) Leslie J. Cross vice president of the UK vegan society died at age 65. 5) Longevity expert Dr. Henry S. Lodge died at age 58. 6) Diet expert Susan M. Levin RD. died at age 51.

[@jacquelinemarek6132]

Is that a pack of cigarettes in his pocket? Lol

[@DanielFernandez-h3l]

You do a really professional work in your videos Simon, cameras, editing, plot, tone, it's all great, congratulations. It'd be nice to have you in the carnivore side, the correct side of things... it'a pity that you waste your talent and time with carrots.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Appreciate you listening to the ep!

[@ronhumphreys3762]

@@jeffm5271 My biggest concern with carnivore is eye health. Vitamins seem to help in prevention somewhat, but for that prevention macular degeneration the most common form of blindness in the american elderly, leafy greens and berries have things in them which seem to help in prime. Even if you did live long and were at low weight, what benefit that if blind?

[@muhammadathar2358]

Like all vegetarians showing no trail study only talking about unknown data, no research, no trail , no data only lip service

[@ronhumphreys3762]

The longest living group in this study were woman who ate fish eggs and dairy.

[@arleenm7367]

Great interview Thank you!

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoyed it!