Looptrotter SA2RATE 2 - HARDWARE vs PLUGIN battle!

[@FoliaSound]

Okie dokie, so what do you think about the unit and the plugin? Is there much difference? Are you planning to buy the hardware or just the plugin? Let me know in tha kommentz!

[@andrewwhitehouse1878]

Really nice review! I see benefits for both. Owning the hardware (which as hardware goes is pretty affordable), future proofs your investment and also gives you a tactile and fully analog experience. The plug-in, which sounds amazing, of course is scalable across many tracks and recall is easy.. it’s a great time to be making music! ❤

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

Hi, i m about to buy the hardware....but really is there a noticeable difference sonically ? Thx

[@IntheDAW]

Hardware sounds freaking amazing. So good. But the software is still good. I will totally get the software as a for now thing. But with the aim to buy the hardware after I finish my distressor hardware purchases that I have lined up.

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

Hi, did you get the hardware and really good ? Thx

[@glennloopez]

I apreciate this video. I worked on both the Monster and Sa2urate boxes before and just remember they were amazing sounding. So I was very excited for the plugin to show up, I think it is a killer plugin and it will be used a lot. I agree with you that hardware (most the time with all quality hardware) have some very hard to explain richness or depth that is hard to point out. Having said that, I am in the box now so I won't buy the hardware box, now the wait starts for Monster compressor 2 in vst :D

[@MixedByDotRob]

Thanks for the comparison ... and for providing the download files! The hardware sounds much more alive and "fresh" IMHO - the plugin sounds more static and feels like more distortion - but it surely is good enough to work with!

[@gomb4rt]

According to Brainworx the "Magic" knob controls the transformer sound that is fixed to around 30% in the hardware.

[@FoliaSound]

All right, we've gathered some different opinions, this is nice, thank you all for discussing! I'll probably create a poll to see whether most of us like HW or plugin!

[@sergeyleps8492]

Your original device is connected via analog cables - and this completely distinguishes the sound of your device from the plug-in version. Why does no one take this into account at all? Or does your device ONLY work with a USB connection? If it is connected by analog cables - then this test is not objective! We all know that analog cables have different sound(by themselves). Specify for us - what kind of connection you have to your device.

[@fabriziosciarra5380]

@@sergeyleps8492 I don't get this, sorry... A cable is a vector... a perfect vector doesn't degrade the sound... a plugin is "connected" via a "perfect cable"... a physical cable can only "destroy" a part of the signal... introduce non linearity and other artifacts that could make the sound worst... Are you meaning that the hardware unit can be massively better than the plugin instead of simply better because the cables were not good? Just to understand.

[@sergeyleps8492]

@@fabriziosciarra5380 You are absolutely right - cables introduce non-linearity (like analog equipment). And this does NOT make the sound "worse". On the contrary, this is what makes the sound "Better" and "Live + 3D volume". Plugin - even if it sounds "good" - Cannot be matched with your real box + analog cables (4 pieces - 2in - 2 out). Cables "change" the sound a lot. And you know that cables can make the sound Worse (cheap cables), or they can make the sound the Best possible. Both the first cable options and the second options will present the analog "saturation" box in a completely different way. None of the options can be objectively compared / compared in tests with the plug-in. This is what I meant.

[@johnnyvegas2015]

Good stuff...I am glad you prefer the hardware a bit better because I received my unit the other day but did not have a chance to play with it yet. Will probably get a plugin version as well since is a pretty close competitor. Thanks for taking the time to make this test...cheers 😃

[@FoliaSound]

Cheers, Johnny, Sa2rate is tons of fun, both HW and plugin!

[@VDJ4500]

... amazing how close to each other both are! A great review, I'm not sure if I would use it on a whole mix though...

[@filipirodrigues866]

I think since the binary is an electrical representation, it manages to more faithfully represent the oscillations that occur at increasingly higher frequencies, and because it is a representation of the voltage that is integral, the 0 & 1 would be like fractions, they cannot reproduce the integrity of a wave over a greater distance, i.e. Low end are those with longer wavelengths, hence this clear difference

[@mrnelsonius5631]

Plugins are getting closer and closer to hardware but it’s almost always the low end where I simply hear more depth and dimension to the lower frequencies on hardware. I really wonder what’s going on there. You’d think top end in digital would be the most different (due to aliasing and other nyquist related quirks) which of course happens sometimes, but the low end almost always gives up the game for me 🤔

[@FoliaSound]

Same thoughts here. It's very hard to beat analog low end...

[@brainwasher3742]

@@FoliaSound also heard some ‘fizzyness’ in software version.

[@DrMax0]

So. Two questions come up in my mind. Did you try the TMT variations? They might make quite difference (at least from my experience with the BX ConsoleN). Question two: How does your analog chain affect the sound? How would the plug-in sound if it was running on another computer being integrated like an external analog device. Anyway: Great comparison with a good unbiased approach!

[@aleksamrkela831]

The hardware has much more density and an awesome crest factor that the plugin simply can't provide all on its own.

[@bontempo1271]

I mean, oviously it sounds like the hardware has a +1-2db low shelf eq, but even just listening in detail -the software sounds smaller and has less depth. That is just typical of plugins, and that's a shame because they really got the sound of the distortion right. This depth and width from hardware are always the traits missing from plugins, so what is the missing ingredient !?

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

I agree

[@poorhouz5051]

Hmmmmm So I think they both sound DOPE. Also hardware is always gonna sound better than digital. BUT it depends on the way you adjust your knobs on the plug in. You can definitely use the software and no one would know it's software. Plus most of us can't afford hardware and will never be able to afford it so.... I been stop buying analog gear. It doesn't make a lot of sense nowadays... GREAT VIDEO GREAT CONVO SALUTE

[@FoliaSound]

Thanks, man!

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

Really ? I find dynamic hw is better than software (high end hw), for eq it s less obvious. For saturation i think hw better.

[@hundeaux]

So with the plugin should be adding more depth and character to my saturation? 🧐

[@FoliaSound]

Plugin is not 1:1 hardware, but it,s definitely good!

[@mistik2595]

very nice review! i really like their both sounds and the problem for the hardware its my wallet can't afford it..... maybe someday :)) btw Example no.2 very cool songs... do you have full version? i really want to hear full songs... thankyou :)

[@FoliaSound]

Thank you, sir! Most of songs tested come from Artlist.io, which is my official library for my channel. You'll find the title on the clip name in the vid!

[@richertz]

Totally agree its not the same and whilst some might feel its close, the musicality is lost. I think they need a better set of ears. Also move around a bit - there is a real difference in difference spaces.

[@canalfamiliar302]

You are the best! thank!

[@FoliaSound]

Not really sure about it, but thanks!

[@ThomC]

I feel like they really got it right when it comes to the tone of the saturation :) But I totally agree with you, the hardware handles the low information a lot better and the overall transient response is better too. I'm wondering whether it wouldn't be possible to get closer to the hardware by using a sidechain that bypasses the low-end on the software? As a sort of bass-relief sorta thing? Either way, that's a great plugin for the price. Thanks a lot for the comparison, really enjoyed the video! :)

[@Mixingmachine774]

in software sound signal seems a bit distorted.hardware version has more punchier sound and no signal distorting.

[@johndozesoph4136]

The plugin looks like it is mostly just clipping. the whole waveform is pancaked for the same amount of drive. this doesn't surprise me as i think Brainworx models are generally kind of trash to be honest

[@ddemulling9722]

I got to tour Stryper's brand new studio and every piece of outboard gear was from Looptrotter.

[@M1strzuu]

Software sounds smooth. Hardware is more harsh. In my opinion soft sounds better

[@engmix]

I hear a bit more thump factor on the bottom end on the hardware.

[@marcsmith8146]

Hello Folia, cool video. The reason why the third example was so much closer was because of the way you set the "Density" knob which lowers the character of the plugin to match the hardware unit you have while still giving you the sound of that unit. Every unit is going to sound a little different when you are dealing with hardware. I wish you would have said that to your listeners as that is a big deal I think. Maybe you didn't know that's why so you wasn't sure if you should bring that up. With that said, this was a good test and I really like your opinion as it seem honest. Thanks (I have no involvement with the company and I'm just observing your critique to see if I should buy the plugin or not). Again, Thanks

[@FoliaSound]

I'm perfectly aware, that every analog unit souds a bit different, but you're probably perfectly aware, that a new piece of gear, produced with modern standards, makes differences really, really minor, unless the gear is obviously misfuctioning.

[@FoliaSound]

And "density" in the plugin is simply in/out signal proportion, so you can compensate it with the drive and out knobs. The test is well made, when there is comparable thd+n indication and a comparable, audible amount of harmonic content. You can achieve that with different dials in the plugin, as well as in hardware (depending on your analog input level).

[@marcsmith8146]

@@FoliaSound Yes, I agree 100%. It's just that when you mentioned the other 2 test it felt like the low end didn't have the depth that the hardware had, but it seemed that the 3rd test did have it, for me, by looking at the settings you have on the other 2, let me know that this could be the major cause. When I think of "Depth" I think of course, front to back or spacial meaning a more open low end which I'm guessing you meant the same thing. In the examples you played on your video, I only heard more distortion in the plugin on the low end than the hardware which seemed to be open. Once you moved the Density, that opened the plugin up hence, sounded more like your unit. This is the only reason I bring this up. Not trying to go back and forth with you but, when noobs see this or people that don't really understand the terminology nor understand gear like you and I, tend to just say stuff because they heard it somewhere. I just wanted to make it clear I guess for my own sanity. LOL. Just so you know also that I'm not hiding behind a picture of some sort. This is who I'am: www.plugmeinaudio.com. I have a site/youtube as well. kzbin.info Thanks for the response.

[@Six2Nine]

"Dirk didn't like that I didn't like the plugin" To niech się Dirk poskarży mamie.

[@FoliaSound]

Też tak uważam. I omijam recenzje Plugin Alliance!

[@lmrecordings]

I heard the examples on my focal trios and yes the hardware has a bit more 3d if you would but man this plugin gets really close and its not like the hardware is out of reach either what I would do and will do is use the hardware on my 2 bus and the plugin for individual tracks or busses thanks for the video!

[@sancessounds]

Are these knobs stepped at all? Also, would the dry and wet knobs turned all the way up mean the same as 100 wet?

[@FoliaSound]

Yes, the knobs are stepped. Turning dry and wet up will give you 50% dry/wet signal, yet a really loud one :)

[@sancessounds]

@@FoliaSound Wait on the hardware, the knobs are stepped pots?

[@user-hy4xz1qt9h]

Hardware - the low end /low mid has more power. high mid is more crunchy

[@Phat-Monkey]

Going by these examples, I would say the Software sounds cleaner while the hardware does sound thicker in the lower end BUT one could argue the hardware sounds muddier because of this, so it is a hard call...

[@atarifalcon]

I've had the hardware for a very long time. And that's why I don't need the plugin. But I have to say the software sounds very good in your test. The developers did quite well. But the plug-in cannot replace the hardware.

[@TeslaOsiris]

I don’t think these plugins were ever meant to replace the hardware for people who already have it… …but rather to give us common bedroom producers and hobbyists access to comparable emulations.

[@atarifalcon]

@@TeslaOsiris Yes, I better wrote ..."the plug-in cannot replace my hardware". That's what i wanted to say.

[@entrancemusicofficial8550]

Plugins are for us who dreams about real stuff 🤭

[@joost3783]

I think this is a good comparison - I think you could have gotten them closer though using the density and the magic ~30%

[@FoliaSound]

Thanks!

[@jmizzbeatsj-jigga7888]

Whats the name of the song 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@JakeyWakey]

Switch the tmt stereo mode to digital. I have to do this for all pa plugs. Should fix your low end issues. Not sure turning this off all the time is a feature but it works for me.

[@FoliaSound]

Thanks for the tip!

[@INeedsMoneys]

No i think this would be a bad idea since it would be less of a true comparison. The only thing TMT brings to the table is a more stereo effect. Turning it off would just make the processing more mono. I found the hardware to be a bit more wide sounding which could be interpreted as more depth. I would actually suggest the opposite. Turn the channel link off in the plugin and turn the knobs just slightly different from one another, after all this is how the hardware unit is utilized. There is no channel link on the hardware.

[@INeedsMoneys]

@@FoliaSound ☝️

[@JakeyWakey]

@@INeedsMoneys when I just change tmt models it messes up my audio, especially bass. I put the plug in ms mode to get that more unlinked feeling but more stereo widening. Don't have the original. So, this sounds best to me on my mixes.

[@zmix]

5:48 Listen to the difference in "feel" of the hi-hats in that loop between the HW and SW version... and at 9:46 and again at 11:38 Not subtle.

[@TeslaOsiris]

I can’t afford the hardware, so the software will be fine

[@kaisersoze9488]

Nowadays plugins are getting real close to the hardware as if one day they'll probably going to get it right it was a close fight nice job made by PA

[@davidpachecoegido]

HW 1000€, plugin 20-29$, SW = Better workflow, insert more than 1 unit, etc. Can the sound difference be 5%? I'll stick with the plugin.

[@cfs]

Processing anything with low end is more than a 5% difference to my ears, and hardware avoids aliasing on the top end. Workflow is a matter of preference - it's not hard to adapt to using hardware, but it is different. And there's no denying the substantial price difference. I bought a Karacter Qube and it's very different than the plugin in my experience of using them. But that's a much older plugin, too. I deleted the plugin. I'd wager that, in regular use, the Looptrotter hardware will be noticeably different - more than when trying to get them to sound as similar as possible.

[@1210Jazz]

The low end is thicker on the hardware.

[@ShablulZoem]

software sounds like an imitation of the hardware... which is intersting and for sure usable. but way more pumping and mojo in the hardware. software is also brighter for some reason.

[@funk8669]

More Body in the Lowend (Hardware)

[@FoliaSound]

Totally!

[@azoteapost8734]

Hardware is better. Better low end definition

[@georgezorbas9036]

Never do a hardware vs plugin comparison using the hardware live...print the hardware and try to see if plugin can reach the result!!!!!!!

[@FoliaSound]

Erm, but why? Is printing and tweaking live making any difference? I can adjust plugin to the HW, I can do the opposite? What's the real difference for moth methodologies here, if there are any? :)

[@georgezorbas9036]

@@FoliaSound big answer.. its different. it has to do with the circuitry..you gonna see that if you print it its missing something. many guys do a/b by printing..check why in youtube

[@jamesrutherford]

hEY pAUL GREAT SHOW

[@entity9588]

Plugin sounds close enough to not pay the extra costs for the hardware IMO