The Hottest Takes in Fighting Games

#fightinggames #fgc #fightinggamecommunity
Reacting to FGC Twitter (X?) hottest takes!
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[@LordKnightfgc]

Peep everyone's thoughts here - twitter.com/dailyfggirls/status/1709668954627850618/quotes What's your hot fighting game take? Mine is that you should subscribe to this channel :O

[@heavymetalmixer91]

A hot take? Mmm: Unblockable setups and unreactable mixups shouldn't exist, except for strike/throw in the case of mixups. Comment made by an Xrd Millia main.

[@requiem9167]

Maybe not a hot take, but something I dislike in all games with this mechanic is: Death by chip damage is the lamest way to die. Dont think it should be possible in any game to die from blocking an attack, without getting mixed.

[@RePlayQ]

My hot take is that moves with long animations that would kill, should be skippable. I’m so bored of watching my level 3 animation in street fighter, to the point I’ll choose riskier combo routes to avoid having to watch it.

[@xavierblaster]

My hot is: we should have more character specific routes in combo's. As long as there is a somewhat universal route that is not too different in damage

[@spookyjohn6543]

zoning is ALWAYS more skillful than rushdown.

[@DeadbeatShadows]

I was once told, "Practice offense on worse players. Practice neutral on equal players. Practice defense on better players." And I've tried to live and play by that philosophy ever since.

[@blk-sandi]

I'm taking this to my grave 🔥🔥🔥 thanks man

[@Hokag3Chrisku]

Someone needs to put this on a shirt

[@IronPhoenix92]

Very wise words

[@paulcagesso9050]

0 n 2 ever since

[@lot8113]

I really like this one too EVEN THO offense that works on weaker opponents may not work on stronger ones, so you do need lab time or outside knowledge regardless.

[@amperiumx]

Mirror matches are ok, if they don't steal your color.

[@miracult]

Facts

[@renann3]

Woolie was mentioned The hanging pies were stolen The lies were spoken

[@Sercotani]

recently he was all like "you know the best thing you could do with a joke is to repeat it multiple times, for years, run it into the ground?" on his AC6 stream, paraphrasing. He says this a bunch over the years. And I'm like "yeah you're being ironic about it but it's still funny though"

[@belojah2]

The thumbnail brought me here

[@mauricioaguilera3194]

Now he goes back to his swamp ...

[@brianbonn5733]

I agree with new characters > returning characters, BUT they have to actually be new. Not just "we're taking this Old Characters function and putting it on this New Character." I feel like new character, new function is (almost) always great

[@Gamersgoinblind]

I think in some cases putting old characters reimagined in a successor can work, look at Aki compared to Fang or Jin to Kazuya in 3 specifically. But there's definitely characters that miss like Lily being inferior T.Hawk (to me because I really like T.Hawk) or Sean to the Shotos.

[@brianbonn5733]

@@Gamersgoinblind 100%

[@that_dwayneee]

@@Gamersgoinblind what you said about Lily and T.Hawk I kinda feel with Aki in comparison to Fang as well, I much prefer the latter's more cartoonish style and personality and his silhouette looks more interesting with him being the only character in the series with such proportions. I don't know, I get that Fang's design was unpopular but I do genuinely prefer him to Aki just because his cartoon villain demeanour felt unique in comparison to Aki who just feels like Juri but more deranged.

[@tokyobassist]

Woolie only saying that because he's still warm on SF6 and the new characters it brought. He would absolutely eat his comment if we were referencing SF4 and the majority of garbage newcomers that game brought.

[@Gamersgoinblind]

@@that_dwayneee oh I'm the same way, I'm one of the people who LOVED Fang and also like Aki but there's something that was lost between Fang and Aki

[@callmetravesty8762]

Disliking mirror matches is a cold take. That's been around forever. I honestly think sometimes people just don't like it because they have no bad match up/bs character/bs move excuses. If you have a big ego knowing someone is just better must hurt 😂

[@ComptonFalcon]

That. Plus if your character is a specialist of some kind, they're either usually really good or really bad at fighting themselves, there's no in between

[@MoMagnus93]

Mirror matches are hype as hell

[@killerkonnat]

I love mirror matches with my bottom tier character, because I'm only winning against other characters because of their lack of matchup knowledge. In mirror matches I know exactly the weaknesses of my own character and know how to exploit them, so the match feels fair. Usually I know them better than the opponent.

[@JustAKonchu]

I love mirror matches with Faust but I know in other games with other characters I sort of put a piece of my identity into that character since I spend so much time with them so then I get slightly irrationally ticked off someone's stealing my character lol

[@GodOfOrphans]

I hate just because it's harder to keep track of where I am if we're the same character, colours and costumes help but not every game does a great job with those and the audio cues for certain attacks get confusing even then

[@VanMorbir]

my hot take: If making games less technical makes you lose, you're not as good as you think you are.

[@pancakes7483]

Based take imo

[@marcossantos1998]

If you remove a skill from an advanced player's arsenal, of course they'll be less good. You're actively nerfing them.

[@pancakes7483]

@@marcossantos1998 so you need the skill to actually win a match?

[@marcossantos1998]

@@pancakes7483 Depends on the skill. If you remove a core skill they've mastered, you've essentially changed the rules and created a worse version of that player. What's the point of being good at chess, only to be forced to play checkers?

[@GameConnoisseur69]

Piss take

[@codyhansen]

Somewhat ironically, the better you are, the more you benefit from playing someone better than you. LK, Jwong, Sajam, etc., will able to learn far more from someone who is better than them than I would.

[@AchedSphinx]

this is true, but that's because the person better than them are within range of their own skill level. i think it's better to play someone who's slightly better than you so you can at least understand what's going on and find the means to improve. though i guess finding someone slightly better than you is a tall order in fighting games.

[@QGfk1]

being an expert always means you can take in new information more quickly, and that's especially important with how fast fighting games are. jwong and sajam in particular play basically every single fighting game (and play them for a living), and play many different characters in each game, so there are few people in the world who can learn on the fly like they can

[@ladyinwight]

really its just a matter of game knowledge rather than skill. if someone is way better at playing than you but you can at least perceive what they are doing and why then you can gain something from it. if you're not at that point yet then it probably wont help you at all unless they actually teach you while you play

[@salinalee2613]

the last part was probably my favorite thing, by far. fighting games have been allowed to garner a really shitty energy of elitism that many other games somehow avoid. like, when have you ever heard someone say they need to learn how to do *something specific* in order to play an fps? they don't. they just play it, and have fun. and they might get better, but they might not.

[@salinalee2613]

I am NOT saying there is no elitism in fps games, b/c that's def not true. just that how it shows itself in FGs is very... unique, imo.

[@richardvlasek2445]

>really shitty energy of elitism when project L was first unveiled, for like a solid month league twitter and all other league-related forms of social media were awash with FGC dudebros who felt the burning need to tell the "stupid" and "toxic" and "entitled" league players just how hard they're all going to get obliterated and how they'll all be forced to drop their MOBA-induced egos (because mobas are well known for being really easy to get into and fighting gamers are well known for not being dickheads)

[@jkvltra804]

@@richardvlasek2445 "mobas are well known for being really easy to get into and fighting gamers are well known for not being dickheads" I used to play league a lot and not a single fighting game can compete with the level of ego that league players have. Playing league of legends regularly could almost be classified as a symptom of mental illness.

[@wakkaseta8351]

* MOBAs have entered the chat *

[@richardvlasek2445]

@@jkvltra804 thanks for masterfully proving my point megaweirdo

[@desperado3347]

that thumbnail is the coldest take ive ever seen like actually refridgerated

[@Gamersgoinblind]

I love how a good number of these responses are just middle of the road. My personal hot take is that offline content should be there for the times when you just don't want to play online or don't have a way to connect wired Also people shouldn't be afraid to go out of their comfort games, I have a list of 700 fighting games and there's always more out there but people just won't go digging.

[@bruhm0ment6000]

Imo fighting games should take notes from smash's massive offline content. Like collecting over 3000 spirits, hitting punching bags until you launch it into the deep ends of space and having team battle as well as up to 8 players on the screen. I'm not saying fighting games should allow such ambitious play mode but Strive can definitely have an actual 4 characters on screen, Strive's arcade mode already does that with 3 characters. Sf6 and Tekken are also taking a big step in offline features like extreme battle, immersive world tour, and the Tekken volleyball and bowling. However I still would love to see more, smash bros has a 1v100 mode too like... sakurai was mad cooking in the kitchen.

[@Gamersgoinblind]

@@bruhm0ment6000 there's actually some indie games that are working on good single player modes like Duels of Fortune which while the story mode isn't done yet, there is a smash styled mission mode where there's unique situations, unlockable costumes and bosses that aren't anywhere else. Or Beatdown Dungeon which has a full on RPG styled single player mode with items and power ups.

[@jonw1599]

Personally I find offline content a great way to test things out with an opponent who can kick back just a bit when I'm trying things out, or just a really good way to warm up my hands

[@DeertickDaniel]

@@bruhm0ment6000smash is content first multiplayer second tho the games goals are just incredibly different

[@funfactswithduckbred4407]

4:47 This discussion reminds me as a new fg player of when my mimd was blown by someone saying that one of the characters didn't have a forward dash. I didn't know that you could mess with system mechanics that much to make characters unique. I think its sick.

[@lukeblaker8009]

The last one is very true, there is something to be learned in every match you play, regardless of skill level

[@eduardoserpa1682]

Despite the overly aggressive wording of Masoma's tweet, I mostly agree with the sentiment that GG feels a bit archaic and too snowbally/violent, even Strive. As someone who's not trying to get good, it's not my favorite, but it's still fun, and it's integral to what GG is, so it shouldn't change. There are other games where high-level players don't have to get counterhit by meaties every now and then.

[@QGfk1]

it blasts heavy metal and yells at you for walking backwards too much, its identity has always been as the most fucked up and crazy and aggressive 1v1 game on the market. strive's streamlined approach totally fits with that, even if before it was also very complicated and heavy on knowledge checks. I think it just feels weirder that it's such an extreme game now bc for a few years it was the biggest fg in the world instead of an obscure anime game for lunatics

[@fatboy158]

Aren't fighting games built for violence? Pretty sure that's the whole point.

[@Athrex84]

For Mirror Matches, some characters actually do a great job of countering their own offense/gimmicks. So it just creates this weird situation where you can't do the things you like to do with your character. Your optimal way to to play becomes waiting for your opponent to do the thing that you can't do that you normally do. There are some mirror matches I actually think are fun. This is usually the more well rounded characters with lots of options, but the mirror matches for the gimmick characters can just be really restricting and unfun at times.

[@HellecticMojo]

I think ego thing for mirror matches is sorta true for most games, but I'll definitely say that it's not for GG. GG mirror matches feel real dumb because characters in general don't really have good tools to fight themselves or said tools involve doing what your opponent was doing.

[@bbyowll]

This is one of my favorite types of video, I don't really care about the spice itself but the variety of discussion that it leads to is great.

[@tonynguyen6639]

On the mirror match take, I don't think you are mandatory better or worse if you win or lose. You might be better at the mirror match up, or your playstyle counter the other person playstyle. But it doesn't mean as whole, a person is better than the other. Of course, sometimes they are just better, but you need to really think about it, it's not just about win or lose

[@Lord_Dargon]

Sometimes characters have moves and abilities that just can't be delt with with the rest of their kit.

[@LordDio]

We definitely still reference ur persona defense guide in the p4u2 community!

[@killerkonnat]

"My character is way harder to learn than that!" Ehh. Often there's a big difference in the different levels of play for how difficult to learn/win a character is with. Anji's basics are giga easy and at lower ranks it's really easy to win with him. But when you get into celestial, Anji is really hard to do well with. If your opponents know the matchup well, it becomes really hard to win matches. The difference is bigger than the majority of the cast. Meanwhile Anji's more complicated combos are actually really difficult to be consistent with. Not because of execution which is still easy, but because a lot of the combos depend completely on your and your opponent's position relative to each other and the walls, and your momentum too. Basic combos are probably the easiest in the game, meanwhile the advanced stuff requires very precise situational awareness and estimating pixel distances. It's not difficult to execute, (except kara kou) it's just difficult to adapt to picking the correct moves so your enemy doesn't drop out.

[@user-wy1et9dk9w]

So true about the ego with learning characters thing. I totally do it now that you mentioned it and I’m not even sure why. I think it’s either because I personally am struggling to learn something or win with the character, and it’s easier to accept the character is difficult (or others are just easier) as opposed to I am too inept (whether overall or at the moment) to learn and do well with the character. Copium I suppose but kinda subconsciously. Actually fascinating lol.

[@zanpakutoman4225]

I like new characters, but I love returning favorites way more. I think my fantasy wishlist roster (for any game getting a sequel) would be 80-85% returning characters and then 1 new original character per DLC season. Fan favorites are important. The only MK game that didn't have Scorpion had to get an updated version to add him in, within a few months, and any Street Fighter game that doesn't have the World Warriors ends up selling poorly. A single character can affect an individual's choice in getting invested in the game/series, and people are stubborn about their favorites. Also, every newcomer will eventually become an old favorite, so I think it's best to try and only focus on a few and make them unique than reboot the whole roster. Leo first appeared in Xrd, but he entered Strive as a veteran and we get to see his evolution as a character with his design AND gameplay. It's much cooler to me to see how a general idea of a character translates to a different game's mechanics and systems. But, you need your new designs to perfectly compliment those new mechanics, so obviously I think both types serve a purpose.

[@PinkLemonInc]

masoma's was wild; weights are interesting but the legacy doesn't translate when you remove airtech, and RISC feels way better to me than something like a guard bar, especially for how many individual interactions/opportunities the opponent has when you're staggering them for long periods of time.

[@PinkLemonInc]

also i wonder how much woolie's tweet was about DLC vs. base roster, since obviously a balance is necessary

[@3R9Sasuke]

My FG hot take is that games need to get rid of this idea of honor in fighting games and add a surrender button in matches/ranked. Or people need to just take the game and keep it moving. It's 11 at night, I came off work, I'm tired, my moves aren't coming out like I want them to, just let me get out of here. Let me surrender, even if I lose more points or whatever. Or, just let me put my controller down and take the game. Just get me out of here.

[@ratedr7845]

Bro, if you can't press quit, just throw away the game, its like 3-5 button presses

[@StoneEagle194]

To people that don't know about Woolie, this is a hot take. To those that do, it's one of the saner opinions he has.

[@_Jay_Maker_]

Something something vomit in your shirt.

[@StoneEagle194]

Yada yada mouse thumbstick hybrid

[@TheBreaker3333]

Especially because he's 100% right

[@FieryAnubis]

@@TheBreaker3333 100% wrong. Want new characters? Go play a different game. Plain and simple. You NEED legacy characters coming back. They make the series' identity. Yeah, it does indeed go beyond gameplay. Especially with so many clone games and knock-offs existing. People like you need to accept that or yeah, branch out. Other fighting games exist. "But I want to play new characters in a specific engine" well tough luck. You're gonna have to adapt to a new one.

[@devsleeps54]

​@@FieryAnubisno see the Woolie take is he wants new characters to show the passage of time in the series. The same 10 characters for 10 years is boring as fuck.

[@AchedSphinx]

play against tougher opponents who aren't vastly stronger than you to improve your skill ceiling. play against opponents who are weaker or around the same level to polish your fundamentals or new tactics. that's how i do it. also, playing against weaker opponents can help the mentals since that's like half the battle to getting good. so for strive, i'll set myself to play random opponents and accept anyone who plays me if their ping is good. celestial is all over the place in terms of skill so you'll get a little bit of every thing. if i want to play against a specific match-up or whatever, i'll search around for a bit.

[@bloomallcaps]

I hate it when the easiest thing to do is also the optimal thing to do, specially combo wise (sf6 lol) Its not bad to demand mechanical execution from your players

[@bloomallcaps]

And I'm not asking for KOFXIII drive combos being necessary for oki but y'know.

[@mirror2922]

The mirror match one feels like a mild one. There are actually some mirror matches that when played feel like eggshells because of the archetype. or gameflow a character has. I've heard Zato's complain about fighting others Zato's, I think the only mirror match I can speak upon that I've had the recent displeasure of fighting would be asuka vs asuka quite literally the most looney tunes experience I had playing strive lol. I don't speak upon what the match up is or rating it but personally not a fun one to deal with.

[@xcreenplay7264]

As a Axl Main in strive playing against another axl is a dick measuring contest lol

[@Ramsey276one]

You mean Yu-Gi-Oh Strive? XD

[@grum384]

Mirror matches are great. The zato mirror does get a little difficult if you start losing but that's just the nature of the character. Good pressure with no reversals means its going to snowball. But I know the mix I know the set ups and since I play him I should have the knowledge to deal with it. PLUS mirror matches give you the opportunity to steal tech, so even if you don't win you can still come out with something. Unless the tech is mirror match up specific in which case its not as useful.

[@suburiboy]

24:30 This is kinda related to a “hot take” I have. I feel like there is a popular line out there that you can learn the game by just playing…. IMO no you can’t. If you play in ranked, you eventually get to a point where everyone around you is too strong for you to comfortably try new things. This is especially worse when you are trying a new character, since your fundamentals carry you super far… then you are stuck at a rank that is way beyond your character specific skills.

[@Count_Virgil]

I agree with you about RISC, and I also think that systems like Stun or burnout in SF are good too. People react negatively to systems that punish them in addition to getting combo'd, but you have to look at the intended purpose of those Systems. RISC is stop turtling and Stun meter is make people think more about their exchanges.These systems facilitate activity in fighting games and when you dont have them, you get Dragonball Fighterz, a game where you'll be forced to block for 45 secs, and then STILL have your character talkin to T.o.D. Guess what... no one likes that either.

[@adielwilson8749]

I agree with this even though I don't like drive meter as a whole.

[@Dr3am9553]

If you blocked for >20 seconds in dbfz since they nerfed assist regen in 2020... That's a personal decision

[@QGfk1]

I agree on all the other mechanics but I think traditional stun has been done away with for good reason. the only real decision making it affects is encouraging you to be passive after youve lost an interaction. the drive gauge is pretty ingenious how it works like a sekiro posture bar, bc it encourages the person with a drive lead to be aggressive but if you are close to or in burnout you are also rewarded for taking a risk and pressing buttons instead of turtling.

[@iguessDillon]

Great Video LK, this kind of content is fr fun to watch.

[@Mr.Faust3]

Strive shouldn’t have had weight in the first place it hardly affected the game at most it just meant you had to slightly delay a button in a combo risc is only a issue cause we have infinite block strings and in fact Arc sys made doing those block strings easier and buffed them

[@AchedSphinx]

i'll say it affected heavy type characters the most. some of gio's combos had to be cut short because of the higher gravity heavy characters had. this effectively gave them more health since you sometimes couldn't do more optimal routes on them. though this is mostly because gio's routes put the opponent in the air often enough, if your character didn't do that, it hardly mattered.

[@Mr.Faust3]

@@AchedSphinxthe only characters I can think were like that (kinda still are) were baiken millia gio and a little bit of Chipp

[@bluegolisano7768]

weight made sin sexist (had combos that only worked vs female characters + test)

[@V2ULTRAKill]

​@@AchedSphinxidk On baiken lights were the problem weight

[@Mr.Faust3]

@@bluegolisano7768 that shits universal now lol

[@MidWestWolf1985]

My hot take is that more male fighting game characters should be shirtless

[@JohnGlow2]

Ooh I’ve been waiting for this one. Here’s my hot take. I disagree with the notion that matchups only matter at the highest levels of play. Here’s what I find interesting, I almost always see it parroted by the people who only go to locals, cause there are many top level international players who say just the opposite. I believe that once you get halfway decent at the game, learning how your character performs in respect to another character is a crucial part in learning how to effectively utilize them going forward. While it is true that you can make it decently far without doing so, that kind of mindset/ playstyle will only take you so far.

[@adielwilson8749]

Tbh I think it's the opposite the less skill you have the more matchups matter

[@QGfk1]

matchups and character strength matter at all levels of play but in different ways, and the content on it that people consume is all by high-level players and that may or may not be relevant to most players. the matchup is completely different depending on whether you barely know it, know it casually, or have spent hours grinding and labbing to perfect that matchup.

[@HellecticMojo]

I've never heard this said before now. People say tier lists don't matter, but not matchup.

[@NeoBoneGirl]

Technically correct but the tier lists and matchup charts people make are ALWAYS considering the highest level of play, and those do not always apply to the lower levels of play. For example, in basically every game, the grappler is the best character in a low skill environment, because they're simple and do big damage without knowing combos. At the lowest level of play, Zangief has an advantageous matchup against Dhalsim and JP, for example. People often say it because it is truly, truly rare in a modern game that you lose because your character is bad in the matchup. 6-4 is as bad as it gets nowadays, so if you lose, it's not like "Oh man if only the matchup was better".

[@JohnGlow2]

@@HellecticMojoI used to see it alot way back when Central Fiction was more popular, admittedly I don’t see it as much now, but every now and then I’ll see it, but it was a pretty popular discord take a while back anyway.

[@psyonicpanda]

In regards to weight and how wide a character is, I like it when they don't remove your combo routes. Like for example, with my (bad) Elphelt combos, I pretty much did the same combo on every character. Though on some characters, you could get 2D>jc>j.P and do a confirm like that. Weights and size should add unique combos but your normal combos should work too.

[@tokyobassist]

Spice level 6/10 take: People pretend to hate kusoge but MK's popularity says otherwise.

[@JohnGlow2]

I’d honestly argue NRS game’s popularity as a whole says otherwise. The kusoge hatred side always feels like it comes solely from the anime fighter side of the community tbh.

[@tokyobassist]

@@JohnGlow2 It's always been thing even with SF vs MK discussions. MK has always been a clunker to play and even chessier competitively. It does have other merits that valid it existing though.

[@HellecticMojo]

I legitimately cannot understand MK's appeal as a game. It feels like a game that should exist purely through edgy memes like the postal series.

[@mlgrrd4718]

@@HellecticMojo It was popular due to the craze of censorship and there was no game with gore and blood like it at the time. It's still popular because everyone knows it like Street figther

[@user-bkey]

normally id accept having a bunch of returning characters but nowadays you're going to be paying for a lot of characters you use and i think paying for returning characters just feels worse than getting a completely new one always rubs me the wrong way when i have to pay for a char who i used to have for free

[@Yvs8962]

I love the point you made at 14:32 cuz as a tournament Melee player every character in that game can be so damn annoying and I hate like nearly every character, so people say all the time "if you hate these characters so much why do you play this game?" and its cuz I find my character so much fun to play as.

[@kingofgirth8609]

You don't need to fight people overwhelmingly better than you all the time, but you MUST do so, as much as your self-esteem will allow you. You can end up forming nasty habits of things that work on scrubs but not good players. When you catch up you're just gonna have to unlearn a bunch of stuff. Good players also tend to give great advice if you reach out to them after a match too. Also, you are a saiyan, If you fight tough opponents you'll get tough

[@kursna]

I've had people say they suck playing on tcg tournaments and I would always go with the same response, "yeah I guess so"

[@absoul112]

6:36 So that’s probably not the big reason Street Fighter 3 did so poorly. 2 things that had more to do with that are the other street fighter games out in the arcades at the time (alpha, ex, and vs X-men/Marvel Superheroes) and New Generation kind of felt bad to play (if you don’t believe me try New Generation, then Second Impact, then 3rd Strike)

[@shadowfate05]

19:17 Man, we had multiple Litchis in the PNW during CS. It was my least favorite match up because it always just felt like her combos just took forever and ended with daisharin in the corner.

[@catnekokot]

The interestingness of mirror match depends on the characters - some mirrors are super interesting, some are just meh

[@Pink_Jesus]

I think a good explanation for old vs new games, old games are obtuse and had less thought out design, as for new games there streamlined and moves are made for a specific situations

[@harrylane4]

I don’t like mirror matches for a simple reason I pick the most annoying character in every game, and don’t want that torture aimed back at myself. I can dish it but can’t take it.

[@gaminglakitu]

I think Woolie is spitting hard with his take because I 100% agree. It's always needed for an existing franchise to have some returning characters so that way it is part of the same series, but I think if a game just has the same characters that every other game in a series has makes it feel like it's not that special. It's why I love the fact that SF6 has lots of new characters because it adds a new flair to the roster while having plenty of old favorites that help keep it tied to the series

[@dawn3257]

My take is that 92% of player base of all fighting games in general flowchart without truly understanding or playing neutral.

[@rau3412]

the "i'm so trash" take happens mostly in casual matchmaking channels in fighting game servers, not tournaments. Comes from younger users putting too much self worth in the game imo.

[@HellecticMojo]

there's also so much trash talking in the FGC. Someone places at 8th and they are "washed up" as if they are bronze leaguer all of a sudden. People like to act like LTG is this unique scrublord cryptid, but it's so distressingly common.

[@rau3412]

@@HellecticMojo I'm talking about an entirely different subject. This is about people who throw a self-pity party, not trash talk in general.

[@HellecticMojo]

@@rau3412 I'm saying that they are linked. Both are caused by inherently toxic nature of the FGC. There's no validation of your existence without being the top 1 always. It's either internalized or externalized

[@LordKnightfgc]

it def happens at tournaments, trust lol

[@that1blindkid146]

To woolies point, every character ever put in a series was at one point a new character.

[@lukeblaker8009]

Sf3 new generation had only ryu/ken, however the timing was the reason it bombed, releasing at the same time as other sf vs games, and its marketing was also horrible

[@roachdoggjr7020]

and I still vastly prefer the roster of 3 compared to 2

[@sebastianswan7975]

Not only that, but probably also because of how new generation came out at a time of the 3D fighting game boom in general

[@IfYouNeedAnEdge]

My hot take is SF players love to talk about how bad anime neutral and then complain about how they can’t deal with Drive Rush

[@drifty_mouse5715]

People made kenshi sound impossible in mk1, but he was not nearly as hard as people said.

[@V2ULTRAKill]

As a May player Yeah shes easy as fuck to learn and win with, I went from struggling with other characters in that same quadrant like baiken for ages, picked up May and suddenly learned and started winning so quickly

[@greensky5328]

What you said about that second one is a fact. There will be people that will ALWAYS gas up how hard their main or game is to play regardless of the community, new or old.

[@bossjack4225]

My biggest reason for not like mirror matches is because my favorite part of fighting games is using the best traits of my character to beat the worst traits of my opponent’s. A mirror match reduces those number of unique interactions a ton and it just becomes, generally, who’s better a neutral and nothing else. It’s just boring. Sure I’d say maybe my ego is a part of it but I don’t even enjoy playing mirror matches if I’m winning either so

[@tylercafe1260]

New characters isn't too much of a hot take. Because the other take is way hotter which is completely change how the returning character plays. I used to love to play Jacko in Xrd but I hate how she plays in Strive. They unfortunately couldn't just port her over as she was so they had to drastically change her design. Making that a new character would've helped me want to explore that moveset more but since I just see her as a completely different than how she was I'm now completely turned off by the character.

[@loveskull8933]

This is almost exactly what happened to me with Juri in her original SFIV incarnation going to V. Losing the negative edge fireballs really dampened my excitement to play her, and by 6 now I’m kinda just not feelin it because I just want the original design with the three fireballs back

[@a_shrxydud]

8:42 NO BADGUY NO BADBUY

[@SoggyHotDoggy]

I agree with Willie, to an extent. I’ve seen people with a take after SF6’s release that essentially was that we’ve moved past the need for the World Warriors, and it reminded me why just because you play a game in an established franchise doesn’t mean you know what’s best for said franchise. I think SF6 strikes a good, healthy balance; even though I can understand people missing certain characters (I’m surprised we didn’t get Makoto on launch too) to say that we need to get rid of some of the most iconic characters in the entire genre is crazy

[@irishpizza2823]

But do we really need almost ALL of them every time? We've been getting trolled by Honda nearly the same exact way for 30 years now. Give someone else a chance.

[@SoggyHotDoggy]

@@irishpizza2823 You can take out Honda, and believe it or not, there’s gonna be a very vocal minority that’s gonna ask where he is. I know people use SF3 as the example for why this wouldn’t be a good idea, but it’s only because it’s a great example. I don’t think there’s any GOOD reason to remove the original characters other than some people not liking them.

[@Kinma15]

I get that jumping one cause melty air movement have been really fun

[@elderwolfhound9080]

On the mirror match point. As a potemkin player, any bustah is a good bustah even if I'm the victim of said bustah.

[@BIGBLUBLUR]

It's always a surprising, but welcome, treat seeing Woolie in the wild

[@Arunnejiro]

For Woolie I have to say that I was very disappointed in teh character poll that arcsys did. While I do have my favorites, there are many characters in the guilty gear lore that are interesting that people just didn't care about. They are not new in terms of inception but they would be new in terms of their addition to the roster. (not talking about gabriel or the president) Definitely disagree about the mechanics thing. Kizzy kay made a better video about that topic in particular to be honest. The dumbing down/ flat out removal of mechanics from xrd to me is wild, and even things like instant kill and just nerfing movesets. Its definitely fine comparing fighting games and 100% disagree with lord knight on 'pick your fav game' and 'story mode doesn't matter' 1. Lots of fighting games are different, and have their own things going on with them. Like there are no fighting games that you can play online that are like bloody roar. Many of the changes of guilty gear strive I don't like, but then other games don't have what earlier guilty gear games had that were great about them. At the same time we can look to other games to see how they evolve and innovate into the future. Guilty gear has allways had story mode, and in fact I would argue one of the more interesting stoires amongst fighting games. But this time aroun guilty gear regressed with its story content, while street fighter 6 evolved. Maybe we can look at that and say, how can guilty gear modernize, or improve upon its story mode? Honestly I wouldn't mind if guilty gear did something similiar. I view it like how graphics improved, okay there are ways for games to upgrade their story telling devices.

[@kingofthegrapes]

That take about why people hate the mirror is nuts. I hate the mirror because my character is straight up bullshit, you think I wanna deal with the stuff I put other people through?

[@tahaelhour690]

Here's a few takes I got: If a combo isn't possible on both controller and stick than stick should be banned. Dashing and blocking on buttons should be more of a thing. Why are there free buttons on a controller that I can't even map to something useful.

[@user-dx7ej6cs5t]

All of my favorite fighting games are games that I consider bad kusoge for the win

[@tavianfloyd6589]

I hate mirror matches because your gameplan just has to completely change on a mirror match because at a certain level, both you and the opponent know pretty much what your going for at all times, or at least as the player you have to assume they know as much as you, so you have to generally just take a few more unsafe options to get anything started. Personally in like a 2 out of 3 set in any game I don't think a mirror match is going to tell you whose actually better with the character in most cases because the gameplan has to change in general on both sides. Some of my most random feeling matches are mirror matches and that's the only reason I dislike them but its not something I like actively avoid. I'm not ducking sets because my character came up for example lol.

[@michaelcollins4534]

My hot take, chip damage is bullshit and good defense shouldn't be punished like that. Chip should absolutely never be able to score a ko either

[@bluegolisano7768]

imma be the cool guy who goldbursts round 1 *gets blocked* damn got burst baited what is life aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaugh -me, definitely as a floor 10 nago at least like five times so far.

[@ColonelFats69]

Certain games and characters make fighting pros to get good impossible. How can I practice combos or anything if I'm cornered unable to block 50 50s

[@jelaninoel]

The mirror match take is 100% correct. Hate to admit it but thats why i hate them. You lose and there’s no way to cope and you just have to hold that L. I also dont want to use something on them that they’ll then use on me that they didnt know the character could do. But i sometimes play them to see if they’ll show me something i can steal. More often than not i avoid them though. Partly why ive always gravitated to obscure/low tier characters

[@rkoking226]

As a new fighting game player I personally love when there are new characters in a fighting game. It personally feels like I'm at the same experience lv as everyone else (even though I'm obviously not) when we're practicing them for the very first time. It's the reason why I picked up Manon and Marisa as my first sf6 characters as a newbie. It actually gave me motivation to stick with the game.

[@DuppyBoii187]

My hot take is that OSing sucks. Probably no real good way of fixing it, but I think most games would be improved if you had to actually commit to a defensive option, and not 9 layer deep trying to bait wacky OS options. I remember just delay teching in SFV on wakeup and from rookie to gold nobody ever hit me because nowhere is it obvious that you can just time it, so you beat strike and throw. Probably seemed like I was cheating to these people. This is the absolute simplest case, too. Shit gets wacky real fast when you start throwing Zato in the mix. For the record, I don't hate strike/throw/shimmy but in general OSing just feels like abusing the system and not getting better at the game, and really wrecks new players.

[@MarcelVincent]

When save that shit for nationals was the real tech

[@axis8396]

The characters I think are hot are often the ones I enjoy the playstyles of: Xrd Ramlethal, SF4 Juri, BBCF Tsubaki (literally has her boob jiggle as a visual cue for links), Peach in Melee, Red Arc in MBAACC, among others. The dude characters I play I wouldn't necessarily say they're "attractive" but I usually like aspects of their personalities: I'm a fairly reserved person so a character like Terumi being incredibly violent and sadistic is cathartic, Vaserga similarly just walks forward and beats the shit out of you. Overall it's mostly playstyle but there's significant enough overlap that I can't say it's not a factor

[@YoungYoung95]

Baiken a super technical character and Nago a meme character loool you never stop capping, keep it up

[@LordKnightfgc]

Baiken requires so, so much knowledge to play at an international level. Pretty agreed upon by competitive players atm

[@OminousBlackbird]

**Scrubs after seeing this video** “Actually we identify as low stress opponents..”

[@leonardchurch814]

*Me scrolling through my recommended* Also me: Why do I see Woolie?

[@Mr.Faust3]

8:36 I kinda vibe with this implying that the only old comers would be sol/ky or sin/ram

[@h2_]

You should've covered Masoma's second tweet, because he was spitting with that one. Said BBCF is Arcsys' best game, with GG's mechanics refined to the best we've ever seen, and with most of the bs removed.

[@HellecticMojo]

which is really weird because BBCF is extremely loaded with mechanics. Removing BS would not be the take I have if I'm a fan of CF

[@hijster479]

This is pretty inaccurate, before CP Blazblue was mostly doing it's own thing. When CT dropped guilty gear fans complained that it was scrubby. If the bs mechanics stem from Gear, why did Blazblue get better by becoming more like Gear? That said I agree with the overall take that Guilty Gear has a lot of slipshop design.

[@hakumenx1]

CF is filled with BS, its just not as egregious as Guilty Gear.

[@maymainssharedonebraincell6022]

I never thought of it before but after you mention it, yeah fighter Z is what arena fighter would look like it they decided to turn it into a fighting game.

[@ratedr7845]

Thats a dumb statement, they already are fighting games

[@maymainssharedonebraincell6022]

@@ratedr7845 yeah sure lol

[@MapOfTheLost]

the main reason i dislike mirror matches is becasue asymmetry is one of the core appeals of fighting games for me. weighing my options against the options my opponent has is less interesting when we play the same character.

[@aquamanzx]

Kinda agree on woolie so thats why i more interest in new fighting game base on established IP like injustice pokken DBFZ granblue etc more than legacy game sequal where every new character is also a returned fan favorite

[@natman2939]

I will say Jamie and JP are just about my favorite in Street Fighter 6 and I’ve been playing since Street Fighter 2

[@primalfire7689]

New mechanics isn’t always a bad thing. It always goes down to context of said new mechanics. If the new said mechanics doesn’t break anything then surely it wouldn’t be bad right?

[@dingusdangus9299]

"I found the character more fun than the game" Sounds like me with Vega in SFV.

[@andrewlopez7143]

I definitely could get better with my baiken.

[@Dr3am9553]

People don't want to admit but i think gc is a necessary evil in this game. And you gotta realize how much game has changed from previous titles Imagine playing strike throw with gg defense and a real throw whiff animation. It basically doesn't. Or like.. how do you deal with yrc? It's one thing to get yrcd out of airborne move going for mix. Get fucking sent and end up neutral Very different when you on the ground into instant strike throw for them saying "....no" to your mix Compare it to blitz or dead angle and you realize how silly yrc is. Then gc existence makes sense lol

[@Nice_Boy_555]

I always wanted dead angle back because it bugs me how characters like happy chaos have a good get off me option I have to always think about

[@HellecticMojo]

@@Nice_Boy_555 You do know that he'd have it too right?

[@Nice_Boy_555]

@@HellecticMojo yeah but It can be a bad dead angle which was my point because yrc in strive is fairly strong imo

[@jkvltra804]

My spicy take is. Fun>>>Balance. Particularly at a game's launch. Gimme like 25 characters from the start and get ready for a big balance patch in 6-12 months. Also only releasing 2 new characters to the roster a year is so damn slow. Release new characters faster and just ban them from ranked and tournaments for X amount of time(s) so they can be properly balanced.

[@magnolt]

needing to lab defence and knowledge check characters are the number 1 thing that lowers how fun a fighting game is

[@ogunns9674]

8:46 NO BAIKEN NO BUY

[@mikecicciari845]

"returning characters" should be included at launch or free DLC.

[@stormysoup1083]

Old Guilty Gear not being as insanely hard as some people want you to think, is 100% true, old Guilty Gear is hard now, not because of the games themselves but because the players that never stopped playing, a really good now and there aren't a lot of new people coming in, I gotta spend 30 minutes on discord to find matches with people my level in Xrd

[@rpgtimefire]

The mirror is TRASH because In a mirror you and your opponent have the same tools and thats not why I play fighting games. I want to see how my tools interact with DIFFERENT tools. In every sport style makes matches. Watching two people with long swords can be interesting but if one person has a dagger you get real excitement. See how both use their tools strength, trying to get into most advantageous position, and risk/reward brings so many more options then a mirror.

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

Peak easy fun is Divekick and Footsies I don't think games will get easier than them or at least I hope not lol

[@duel2803]

i don’t always want to use every match to improve myself sometimes i just wanna hate on the game

[@adamrussell9573]

I'll never understand people who hate the mirror match. It gives me an opportunity to learn or show off the stuff I know, so it's atleast a win-win to me either way

[@MrShagification]

Mirror match post ain't hot. That's just true. Most people hate the mirror 'cause they're scared of not being better with the character.

[@takeApicture247]

Not all mirror matches are made equally some are just not fun while others could be great

[@frankpennachio2901]

Very confused about the need to gatekeep MORE. Like, why? I legit do not understand this take at all, despite watching the entire video lol. And like you said LK, I think an ENTIRE new cast is bad for a franchise. You definitely NEED returning favorites to keep it in the same franchise. If Street Fighter 7 had 0 returning cast, why even call it Street Fighter? What makes it "Street Fighter" at that point? Since every SF game has different "main" mechanics to them starting from 3 (since 2 was basically the foundation. SF1 was barely a damn fighting game, don't @ me lol), the roster is what makes it a SF game I think. And you are right, it is what almost killed SF as a whole when vanilla SF3 dropped. I could not get into that game in the arcades because the cast was whack.

[@milesmendy5490]

The first one is logic

[@bubbado8333]

I am not a competitive person, but i love fighting games as a dumb little party game, over the night you see people start with mashing and as the night goes on they start to actually learn some strategies and tech, Also, my take Being a newbie and playing against newbies in a fighting game is more fun than getting good at that game and playing sweaty