Lorgar: The Perpetual Victim

[@ZekeBuildsSlow]

Guilliman waking up in 40k and seeing shrine worlds and his first thought being "wtf was the Burning of Monachia even for"

[@henrypaleveda7760]

to ensure that this came to pass.

[@donelkingii3738]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@avieldvalerax3671]

just a waste of promethium and bolts

[@nedg3833]

If I remember correctly, a lil interesting bit from "The Sigillite", when Malcador is talking to a member of the imperial army he mentions that if he could save one primarch, that it would be Lorgar, because he was a "fragile soul"

[@_GOD_HAND_]

Curze and Corax were just posers. Lorgar was by far the most emo primarch.

[@nolanbaker2360]

Based n milkpilled​@@_GOD_HAND_

[@redrumssam5888]

"No Logar I'm not a god. I know I have a halo on my head, I know I have a flaming sword, I know I call my mission a crusade, and I know that one of my children, your brother, is a literal fucking angel, but I'm not a god." OK Big E 👍🏾

[@spnked9516]

Sorta reminds me of the one Word Bearer in the Bile trilogy. The two have this reoccuring debate about faith and religion, and Fabius eventually has to concede that, yeah, maybe the whole "pater mutatis" thing has gotten out of hand among all his creations.

[@redrumssam5888]

@@spnked9516 Yeah Saqqara was great

[@spnked9516]

In Lorgar's defense, the Emperor did sorta (unintentionally?) gaslight him at every turn. Like, imagine you're the Emperor for a second. You have insanely strong powers - one of which allows you to shape shift (or at least alter other people's perceptions of you) at will, and one of you chief goals in life is to eradicate religiosity. To achieve this goal, do you... (A - take on a fairly modest form and use your powers in a more subtle way in order to emphasize human ingenuity. (B - slam as much religious symbolism into everything, make yourself larger than life with features that could be described as unambiguously divine, and flex your powers in the most overt ways possible. Big E, of course, chooses option B and opts to flame anyone who has the "audacity" to mistake him from something divine. This is actually one of my big issues with fleshing out 30k and HH stuff. For every instance of a well-written character or interesting event there's a plot point that can be summed up with "... And then a literal demigod did something absolutely brain-dead...".

[@Spartan135]

the emperor tried to squeeze reddit-tier atheism into a setting like warhammer and failed because his overall goal was to starve out the chaos gods. and they weren't very fond of his plan. That plan included: no aliens (who could've fallen to chaos worship) shall be allowed to live,no religion in humanity's new empire (because every religion humanity created during the age of strife was actually chaos worship without knowing it) and focus on science and "enlightenment". whatever he meant by that.

[@secutorprimus]

The Emperor was an egotistical child who wanted a self contradictory dream, and then acted shocked when his plans collapsed around his throne of lies.

[@KimmyTheForsaken]

Do you think this blatant hypocrisy evident to even a child was really over the Emperor's head? C'mon dude, he reunited mankind almost singlehandedly, and it wasn't by accident. Clearly the Emperor's intention from the very beginning of the unification wars was to become a sort of Saviour God for mankind. It's dialectics. An extreme form of brutally pragmatic materialism and atheism championing the unfettered expansion of humanity at all costs, immediately contrasted by the very obviously Divine form of the Emperor and how he CHOSE to portray himself and his ideas/thoughts to those around him. People were always going to revere the Emperor as a God, with or without the Emperor's direct say so, simply by the magnitude of the Emperor's actions and his overwhelming presence in reality. The Emperor was not a man. He never was. So how is it that so many insist upon ascribing real world notions of morality and sensibility to a setting and character which is clearly utterly detached from the philosophies of our own personal lives? Simple. Most people are illiterate.

[@gameoveror7970]

@@spnked9516 to be fair to 30k when you got 50 plus books written by several authors you’re bound to get some shit

[@truthseekerdude]

This is because the emperor made the same mistake many demigods do, he assumed he could simply use his limitless power to bludgeon reality into compliance with his will. The Great Crusade is just a metaphor for his methods in general, use overwhelming force to ensure there is no other option but compliance or destruction, and assume the people left in the ashes will be enough to rebuild and make up the gaps.

[@dragothromak6261]

Emperor to Lorgar: I’m not a god… why would you think that? Emperor to the Mechanicum: BEEP BOOP IM MACHINE JESUS

[@ronniegeddes5072]

Gaslight. Gatekeep. God Emperor.

[@johnsmith-hn2vu]

Let's be fair, the Emperor never said he was the Omnissiah... he just resurrected a Titan by touching it and then let the Mechanicum draw conclusions for themselves! Very different.

[@l7537]

I like how straightforward the Word Bearers are in their faith in chaos. They dont try to outsmart the Gods because they are "smarter than them", they don't deny their existence, they know the Gods and worship them and follow their will to the letter. They are evil and they know it. I love that about them They truly are Chaos Space Marines[tm]

[@kelakogreenaddict1888]

They even look down on monogod legionaries because they’re not chaotic enough (happened in lords of silence)

[@Captain-Thievius]

I have to agree. I can’t take the Black Legion seriously because of Failbaddon. The Word Bearers work as villains because they went all in on Chaos worship and are still mostly united as a Legion, without ever having to rely on Heretic Astartes from other legions and chapters like the Black Legion does. Erebus in particular is a far better villain than Failbaddon ever will be. The entire Horus Heresy and 40K can be traced back to Erebus, Abby cannot make that claim.

[@LordSukramo]

"Lorgar, His baldest son" *Sad Alpharius noises*

[@omegamark9178]

yeah but he covered it with a badass tattoo so its all good lol Hydra Dominatus

[@Mary97794]

Lorgar, at least when written by ADB, is such a fascinating character to follow. He's the one Primarch who didn't want to fight, to be a general, or really destroy things, but wanted to build civilisations - only to have the thing he took pride in most reduced to ash in minutes before his eyes. To watch him fall to chaos genuinely felt tragic, with the universe (or more accurately Erabus, Ferron and the literal chaos gods) put onto a path of ever damning choices, until he literally perceives the sacrifice of his sons as a leap of faith.

[@stoops187]

ADB is the best author Black Library has along with Dan Abnett as a close second imo

[@gameoveror7970]

Honestly when Lorgar eventually returns I actually want him to be the main villain. Abaddon doesn’t work as a main bad guy when his enemies are Primarchs and the four traitor Primarchs are his allies and he is a boast up Space Marine. But Lorgar taking the reins as big bad simply because his bald ass is the reason why the Imperium is such a shit hole.

[@spnked9516]

I generally agree, but the problem is that Lorgar, despite being one of the more interesting Primarchs, also tends to be one of the worst written and mistreated Primarchs. It's wild how much his character varies depending on the author writing him or GW's mood at a given time.

@@spnked9516that’s fine if you interpret Lorgar as being severely borderline and flitting between extremes in ideology. Lorgar *is* consistent in the sense that no matter what he believes: he believes it fully

[@redhandtheblack]

Thing is, a weak brother will always be seen as a weak variety, he'll get bullied regardless of if he's super powerful.

[@silenthero2795]

It doesn't really help that Lorgar has been the punching bag primarch next to Angron. He's consistently being beatdown even in the latest setting, becoming a Daemon primarch at last only to be folded by Warp Corax and got spawncamped.

[@bighairguy7]

The heresy novels, at least the ones I’ve read so far, turned me from a Lion stan to a Lorgar stan (altho I still love the kitty cat and my dark angels army). He feels by far the most human - his mistakes, worldview, and temperament all feel so much more realistic and grounded. Not to mention, Betrayer and The First Heretic are both outstanding.

[@Ronnie-kun]

How dare this man declare that gods exist in a setting where gods exist. The most important thing about him is that Lorgar wasn´t even corrupted by chaos he was by the emperor. I can absolutely make the case that he was the most loyal primarch who could ever exist and he still would be if his god didn´t step down and straight up told him you are the only failure of my sons. You know at least 3 of them have brain damage and tear people to pieces for fun. Yet Lorgar gave even in his fall the imperium the only thing that keeps it together: it´s faith. He pretty much is the anti - emperor, ties nice into the lookalike aspect.

[@johnsmith-hn2vu]

If your god tells you not to worship him, you should probably do as he says. Lorgar was faithful, but he wasn't loyal. He flipped the second that the Emperor no longer fit into his idea of what a god should be. A true believer like, say, Keeler, would just go underground and worship more quietly. As for being told you are a failure... you get up and do better. Sigismund didn't betray Dorn after being told HE was a failure. I sympathise with Lorgar, but he's not the innocent soul he thinks he is.

[@Ronnie-kun]

@@johnsmith-hn2vu Yeah flipped to the most logical conclusion: every god needs his devil

[@capsizemoonz2251]

To me Lorgar is like magnus Both were trying their best to aid in the ways they thought were right The difference is while magnus was killed for his ignorance lorgar had the hardest crashout that led to daemons possessing marines and killing custodes which is honestly based

[@tomorbataar5922]

Yes, Inquisitor, this guy right here!

[@capsizemoonz2251]

@@tomorbataar5922 send your inquisitors the daemons are hungry and the possesed are board

[@kaitracksmalgom]

I technically believe that the current version of the emperor is a god at this point but 30k he wasn’t a god

[@KekusMagnus]

He wrestled a C'tan with his bare fists in 10000BC He was always a god for practical purposes

[@alexandrudorries3307]

Lowercase ‘G’ god.

[@Clitoriacetal]

@@KekusMagnus Leman Russ won 2 out of 3 contests against that so called 'god' does that mean Leman Russ is godlier than the emperor?

[@MastemaJack]

​@@Clitoriacetal did he or did the Emporer let him win

[@notahooman3598]

​​@@Clitoriacetalgo on, tell us what those 2 "contests" he won were

[@avieldvalerax3671]

I love when people act like he won And its like, no, bro, dude gave the Imperium the ability to resist chaos for ten thousand years lorgar is an upwardly-failing moron

[@GaIvatr0n]

Comparing Curze fighting ability to Lorgar is a hard troll.. Curze put G man, Lion, Dorn, Sangy & Vulkan all on their toes and ass whilst having Corax high tail it.

[@JimGordon]

Spoilers abound: Yeah Kurze is literally one of the better fighters of the primarchs and it’s like one of the only things that he is truly good at. He’s not technically good but his raw instincts make him far more deadly in a one on one than almost any other primarch save Angron, Horus, or maybe Sanguinius (idk much about Sanguinius yet he hasn’t been in many of the HH books I’ve read yet). I mean he would have outright killed the Lion if a dark angels champion didn’t literally stab him in the spine. And the lion is literally the best all around primarch only rivaled by Horus himself. To be better than the lion in one on one fighting to me puts kurze really high on the primarch fighting scale.

Yeah idk where that came from the primarchs who would come off poorly in a 1v1 are alpharius/omegon bc each one is closer to 2/3rds of a primarch’s power Guilleman because he’s physically small and tends to lean more towards logistics and strategy Mortarion because he’s just a walking L and never wins anything Magnus, who can sorta circumvent a lot of his melee weakness with magic and his size, And Lorgar The rest are all pretty competent in a fight to varying degrees and Curze is always noted as being someone who’s very unpredictable and savage when fighting other primarchs

@@JimGordonSangy is frequently referred to as one of the best duelists and someone who could comfortably duel fulgrim or Russ so he’s definitely up there

[@uignireddngfiurdsgfiurdse]

The mark of a well-written villain is that many readers fall for their exposition and justifications. Lorgar paints himself as merely a kind-hearted seeker of truth, ultimately going down the path of Chaos only after others lead him there. Both of these claims are patently false, though many readers take them at face value.

[@PaulieWalnuts1964]

So what is he in you opinion?

[@AlsadsajsAlsadsajs-vl7th]

Borderline personality disorder

[@blueberrymcphuckerson9821]

​@PaulieWalnuts1964 I've seen people argue that Logar was a closet sadistic psychopath who simply was looking for God(s) to justify him committing atrocities.

[@PaulieWalnuts1964]

@@blueberrymcphuckerson9821 To me that contradicts what we see of him in his Primarch novel and the first heretic. Also every primarch commits atrocities for no reason other than were told to, you say he sought out an excuse to be evil but maybe its because he was the only primarch who needed one

[@Paul-A01]

Lorgar was right about 90% of everything. Gods are real, faith is important, and every war is a war of belief.

[@iz9744]

Kurze is not bad in fighs at all. In fact he is one of the most dangerous 1v1 primarchs. I think even Russ is afraid of him.

[@Captain-Thievius]

Emperor: There’s my other boy, let’s go and pick him up. Custodes: With respect my Emperor, Lorgar is clearly a religious fanatic. His religious sensibilities and beliefs do not fit your Imperial Truth in anyway. Is it wise to have him lead one of your legions in your name? Emperor: Nah, it’ll be fine. * *a few moments later* * Emperor: AYE YO WTF?! I demand Monarchia be utterly decimated this instant!

[@punishedbutler3013]

I like Lorgar the most as I think he's the most human. Godlike strength, intelligence, capability, potential, and he was broken by his upbringing and the society around him. Desperate for something greater than himself despite being at basically the pinnacle of existence and very willing to delude himself. First Heretic was a hell of book

[@Psyker_Unredactus]

What i like about the Word Bearers and their religious views on Chaos Undivided is that unlike Abaddon, Warmaster of the Black Legion, Lorgar and the Word Bearers have an actual forward goal to bring about the Dark Gods' plans for realspace whereas Abaddon takes very little from the boons he has and uses that power he has, which already at the least makes him akin to a Primarch, to bring about the end of the Imperium in his own way. A gloryless end for the Imperium. Lawful Evil in service to Chaotic Evil Masters. The Word Bearers and Lorgar on the other hand are frantically devoted to the Gods. Chaotic Evil to their core. Would suck up the galaxy into the Warp tomorrow if the Gods told them to bring about a ritual to do it. They are eager servants. Eager to please their Gods for the boons they bestow.

[@rakisuzuki-burke4148]

The difference is probably at least partially because the Word Bearers don't waste any time trying to pretend they aren't controlled by Chaos.

[@theendofmyropemydude]

"you think you're better than someone just because you demonstrably are?" Yeah.

[@Subject35th]

Most art work depict Lorgar clean shave. But in the book, he have flowy brown beard, golden eyes and glowing skin (hence Aurelian)

[@CSSVirginia]

In my best Alex Jones voice "Lorgar is a friggin DEAMON!!!!"

[@TYPHON2713]

Yaaay, I'm a member now!

[@grayrobber]

Those terminators are so cute

[@Scowleasy]

Lorgar could get you to change your religious beliefs. Think about how scary that is. Lorgar (and his legion) specialized on converting entire planets and uniting them in worshipping someone they had never heard of before.

[@ronantheronin3521]

Exactly, he is the most dangerous primarch and he is usually right.

[@Pyromaniac77777]

He's the most evil character in the setting. On the one hand, acting all sad about his work, on the other, relishing in the cosmic pain of trillions. He makes Magnus look humble

[@Book_worm.75]

The Emperor: Destroys Mornachia and tells Lorgar no more religion. Lorgar: " Father, I have chosen to become extreme in my religious beliefs"

[@kyletrout3828]

The Emperors top 3 biggest mistakes was not putting down the Word Bearers like rabid dogs. I know he was already down 2 Sons plus their Legions but I'd guarantee you could still accomplish his grand design with 17 Legions.

[@svenkristensson6573]

The fact that the world bearers did so much wrong but were still allowed to exist makes you think of how fucked up the two lost primarchs must have been…

[@SarithenVol]

Word Bearers are my 40k army. I’m very excited for Lorgar’s eventual Daemon miniature. :) Great video, friend!

[@antonloof752]

Lorgar what are your weaknesses? Lorgar: well... *1 hour later* What are your strenghts? Lorgar: I talk real good

[@WhiteIkiryo-yt2it]

I love your "pretentious" looks at the Primarchs and extrapolating their flaws to wider society and how we, the common people.can relate to these demi-gods who are the pinnacle of humanity's pro's & cons. You have a genuine ability to see through it and express them without the bias that would often cloud us when we look at the Primarchs. Happy Sanguinala,.good sir.

[@TheBoneZone40k]

bro I am straight up crying in the club

[@jakobthompson3468]

WHERE SPACE SHARKS?

[@Ratman36]

WHERE SPACE RATS?

[@skykittymartin9023]

WE NEED EL SPACE SHARKOS

[@Ironbattlemace]

"Wher is mah Spays Sarks" -in every 40k creators comment section

[@ADragonFruit440]

@@Ratman36he did a video on the skaven

[@krispicman3850]

*****WHERE HOUR LONG SPACE SHARKS???!??!!!?******

[@fedefyr]

Hold on, did you say that curse is bad at melee?!? Even the lion said curse was a threat in melee

[@noodlepancak783]

For real. Kurze can literally see the future and uses that to predict everything his opponent is gonna do. He basically doesn’t lose unless there’s some sort of trickery involved

[@fedefyr]

@@noodlepancak783 And he is crazy and unpredictable.

[@NerdEnthusiast]

The bit at the end where you talk about the human tendency to otherize, aka place people in ‘us vs them’ boxes, absolutely hit the nail on the head. The more we judge, the more alone we ultimately become. Excellent video man, can’t wait for the later parts. (And for the Meet the Primarchs playlist to be updated!)

[@myonlyfriendtheend4958]

Bruh the lion himself said kurze was his hardest fight tho you right on lorgar is either the worst or 2nd worst combatants of the primarchs its either him or bobby g (king blueberry legit got his ass beat by kor pharon and only lived because kor tried to turn him instead of kill him i shit you not. It was funny when he ripped kor's heart out tho fuck that guy)

[@blizzardgaming7070]

Every other Primarch has a better track record, The Lion needs no explanation, Fullgrim killed Ferus and an Avatar of Kaine, Perterabo has tossed Fullgrim about with little effort, the Khan drew with Mortarion, Russ killed the primarch of the 11th legion, Dorn killed Alpharias/maybe Omegon, Kurze 2v1nd the Lion and Guiliman, Sanguinius was Sanguinius, Angron is considered one of the most dangerous single combatants in the setting, Guiliman has fought Fullgrim Mortarion Magnus and survived, Mortarion defeated Perterabo

[@jacobcasey5202]

⁠@blizzardgaming7070Tbf Lorgar is the worst combatant but I don’t think he’s actually too far behind Guiliman. When they fought on nuceria it was relatively close and on monarchia lorgar hit guiliman so hard it cracked his ceramite and seemed to break a rib or 2

[@GaIvatr0n]

Kurze is imo the best primarch in 1 on 1 combat.. He has the most W's fighting his brothers at this stage in the lore. Lorgar is weak but only among primarchs.. Didn't he take out a juiced up Khorne champion and a few custodes on another occasion.

[@wowo2017]

@@jacobcasey5202yea but guillman im pretty sure punched lorgar his skin was hanging off his face or it like crushed half his skull either way guilliman got wounds a normal person could theoretically survive lorgar got saved by primarch power and angrons spaz out as he became a demon pronce

[@jacobcasey5202]

@@wowo2017 Yes now that you say it I think guiliman landed a headshot with his power fist and then had to be saved by Angron. But before that the fight was back and forth. Like I said I do think he’s the worst combatant but it was close enough in 30k and he’s a daemon prince of chaos undivided now so who knows how powerful he is. I’d love for lorgar to come back and rematch Corax and Robute

[@PenumbranWolf]

No, don't tell the genestealer cultists they're valid. We know what happens on Ascension Day.

[@spnked9516]

In the GSC defense, there is a chance that you don't get eaten and instead get to chill with and follow around a hive fleet from system to system. It's like a 20/80 toss up on whether or not you just get eaten - but that's still better odds than what you'd have if you weren't part of the cult.

[@MastemaJack]

With the burning of Monachia, it kind of makes me think Lorgar is a twist on Job from the Bible. Just instead of keeping his faith no matter what happened Lorgar fell

[@fishpower52]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="113">1:53</a> Wait isn't konrad curze one of the best duelists in the primarch that even lion has difficulty taking him down? what do Bones mean by "in a direct fight he's probably worse than even Curze, which is saying a lot"??

[@OneReallyGrumpyJill]

Bones, my man, how can homie be "bad politician but good orator"? To me, Lorgar is one of the coolest primarchs for his spite - he NEEDS to worship someone, and once Emperor proven himself to be cruel god, he sought other gods. He doesn't need happiness or comfort, nor does he want destruction and death - he NEEDS to feel right. He is the kind of person who triple down on a bad decision just because he couldn't admit that he was wrong (but then there is also shitty parents from both sides) With that being said, right now, he must be hella op. I mean it - he is deamon prince of Chaos Undivided, which is pretty much Archaon-tier. I do disagree on one part - Lorgar is the scariest of chaos Primarchs exactly because he worship Chaos for the sake of Chaos. He doesn't need anything out of his worship - to him, that is just what people ought to do, how universe operates.

[@meercm]

Using curze as a milestone of how bad of a fighter can a primarch be doesnt sound right.

[@davidkwiecien415]

You know, I weirdly agree with you on everything except the pity part. I do pity him because I do look down on him. But I’m also broken mentally, I have this weird ability to just force myself to do what I need to, no matter how much I hate it, am exhausted, or what be it.

[@NapGod]

imo this was a better take on Lorgar's motivations and initial characterization than how ADB set him up at the beginning of First Heretic. The line about how Magnus appreciated Lorgar's wisdom and intelligence and they would spend long hours in debate and intellectual discussion feels like a joke when Lorgar is regurgitating medieval philosophical arguments for the existence of God when the word bearers are searching for them. Those are literally used to teach about circular logic and you practice refuting them in every Intro Philosophy course because they're so simple. the word bearer's arc is one of the best in the entire heresy, but that first half of First Heretic really pulled me out when a primarch was all but quoting Aquinas. The idea that his need to worship something is the result of the way he grew up and not some conclusion logically reasoned is my own headcanon. If you can logically prove something then you don't need faith. that's kinda the whole point.

[@WhiteIkiryo-yt2it]

I hope you all had a very blessed Sanguinala.

[@ChristianMcCreaOfficial]

to my mind, your linking of lore to the narrative throughlines of the characters is much more true to the approach of the GW lore team and writers than taking events ultra literally and attempting to form a perfect continuity and canon, none of this is pretentious, this is what we all think when we read the books! keep going! good job!

[@sonyyung5510]

I appreciate video like these. In life a lot of people act like Lorgar, thinking themselves the chosen ones of God. Thus anything they do in his name can't be wrong, when in reality it often is. At the same time a lot of people act like the Big E. They think themselves superior because they are 'secular'. They don't believe in what they see as mere fairytales. Well they are both right and wrong at the same time. Fairytales aren't real, and no one should take them too seriously. At the same time, to act as though the supernatural doesn't exist, when one can't disprove it either is also just as foolish. This doubly ironic for the Big E, considering he sought to rid humanity of the warps' influence while at the sametime using its' power for his gain. The truth is that God simply is. He isn't anything like what you might imagine, because he would always be more. Yet, he is not just an idea either, something to be changed on a whim of humanities current thought. God, like the laws of the universe, simply is. It is up to you to discover him, it is up to you to know him, and it is up to you accept him. For like gravity you can deny that it is real all you want, but when you fall down there's no one to blame but you.

[@jhworld1]

Hey man, I think your pedantic philosophical tangents are kinda nice. I like hearing them

[@scooterdescooter4018]

Its completely wild to me that Logar and fucking Angron of all primarchs teamed up for the shadow crusade. Yes, Logar wanted to save his brother... but did he really?

[@arlodurham2040]

I’m sorry, the EMPEROR CAN REVERSE DAEMONIC POSSESSION?! Awesome video by the way. You’re one of my very favorite loretubers! Edit because of a major typo. Woe to me for writing at 5am.

[@TheBoneZone40k]

sort of at the end of the Plague War/Dark Imperium series, the Emperor possesses guilliman and tells mortarion "I'll come back to fix you later" or something to that effect. Kind of a big deal

[@AviaryAssassin]

KEEP relating your personal experiences to these. Your openness in the Leman vid related strongly to mine

[@jakerooke174]

Lorgar is more like a Jack of all trades put with a little bit of each shaved off and put into charisma which he uses to be a nine foot toddler

[@armyandmad]

Don’t sell yourself short by calling your videos pretentious. You have something to say and it’s fucking cool. Own that shit. ❤

[@JZ0UK]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1345">22:25</a> a video on the angel? No, not that angel, the other one, no not the red one, the other other angel?

[@odidi1381]

Vulkan ... the other other angel.

[@odidi1381]

Vulkan ... the other other angel.

[@qp9259]

I actually fucking love political analysis of 40k. To me 40k is many things. A window into what it would be like if religion were literally true. An autistic hyperfixation. But above all, very very fascist. And in that it pulls double duty. Its sort of a parable about the strengths and weaknesses of fascism, or maybe even just centralized power generally, and its relationship with religion.

[@libertylemonz7145]

Fascism tends to co-opt and corrupt existing religious structures into the service of the State. Being aggressively atheist is more of a communism thing. I'd say Genestealers are kind of closer to Fascists. They corrupt whatever social systems they find themselves in so they can be suicidally obedient to their cause.

[@psudobuddha]

Feudalism is not fascism.

[@psudobuddha]

Nor is religious totalitarianism.

[@joeford5181]

Again if Lorgar met Sigmar and Karl Franz. He would really love it

[@Spartan135]

And Erebus and Kor Phaeron would've been burned by some crazy a** witch hunters for being CHAOS WORSHIPPING HERETICS!!! =][=

[@sphyre1196]

The first heretic being my first HH book I actually found Lorgar to be a genuinely nice guy until half way through the book. When he started abusing poor Argel Tal as a lab rat I lost most of my sympathy for him and by the time of Istvan he had turned into a full on douchebag. Still... absolutely not a badly written or lame character unlike Morty.

[@lionheartfilms793]

Well Lorgar generally was considered a nice guy before he started consorting with the gods of hell. He wasn't respected much by his brothers but there wasn't anything about him not being liked. He's was best friends with magnus. And Angron actually kinda trusted Lorgar. He didn't even really intentionally hurt Argal. The 6 month demon cannibal warp adventure was a chaos deception. As far as the demon goes Lorgar geniunly saw that as a positive, Argal Tal was one of his favorite sons and sought to gift him with "divinity" as lorgar saw it.

[@lionheartfilms793]

I think the Takeaway here is Argal Tal was such a bro even a demon considered him good company.

[@michaelcollins4534]

Monachia situation is crazy

[@akuinator6350]

Lorgar got everything he wanted and was even proven right about faith being absolutely necessary in the insane hellscape that is the 40k galaxy. He won more than anybody else.

[@PhlegmFiddleford]

Arthur said that the imperium was fascist to make people mad, but everyone is rioting about the local psycho being too low on the power scale. I love it here

[@LexYeen]

Truly among the best 40k communities.

[@Waabbrr]

if the emperor had just SPOKEN TO HIS KIDS like an actual father, instead if seeing them as weapons and weapons alone. like, JUST BE A FATHER FIGURE BIG E

[@Plague_Crow]

As a ravenguard lover... I HATE HIM I HATE HIM I HATE HIM

[@eidenspysznyk5075]

How many warhammers have they found?

[@nagasimp1855]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="535">8:55</a> bait used to be believable 💀💀

[@balazscsotai8354]

I mean, it's true. A lot of people will throw a tantrum when you point out that the Empirium is evil, and at least partly, The Emperor is at fault

[@nagasimp1855]

@@balazscsotai8354 bro, noone defends the imperium as good unless they are tourists or new. Either way the imperium is not fascist and people who says it is doesnt get what fascism is, what the imperium is and what the emperor intended to do of his imperium

[@jamenbarker336]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="535">8:55</a> Watch Live From the Black Library's video on the politics of 40k for an explanation on why the Imperium isn't fascist. He argues it is more like Soviet style totalitarianism. I don't disagree

[@mEmory______]

The imperium really cant be argued to be anything other than fascist dye to its central underpinning of racial (humsnity) superiority, religious backing, and aristocratic militarist structure. On surface level it may be totalitarian in the sense that the USSR was, but thats just surface level stuff. Hmm gotta check the video you mentioned to see if their are contrary points he has to make that might be interesting.

[@jamenbarker336]

@mEmory______ Check it out. He argues the opposite, that it is fascist only on the surface. Very interesting stuff

[@oogskskfn]

Curze isn’t good at 1v1s? Didn’t he 1v2 Guilliman and the Lion?

[@zaxbitterzen2178]

Big E not having Erebus and Kor Phaeron assassinated early on was one of his biggest failures. He couldve cooked up a good story and reigned Lorgar in. I couldnt imagine a better primarch to lead the Grey Knights save for Magnus himself.

[@alastor8091]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="160">2:40</a> not even because of Lorgar's speaking skills, the Word Bearers quirk is that they are, above every other legion, devoted to their primarch on a genetic level. The bond between them is so strong it puts other Astartes off.

[@Ovetupp]

The emperor really can't decide if he is playing 4D chess or if he is a dunce who has no idea what's happening around him.

[@diegogisbertllorens7416]

WHAT IF Sanguinius landed on Colchis? That would have turned up the religious fanatic vibes to 1000.

[@loopgru]

The 20th primarch video will be on Sigmar Heldenhammer. Our should be if it isn't. ;)

[@goldjaw]

Sigmar didn’t disappear for 50 years. Sigmar wasn’t bullshit talented at learning. Sigmar didn’t invent an entirely new way to rule. You know who did? Nagash. Nagash 11th Primarch.

[@loopgru]

@@goldjaw BEHOLD THE POWER OF NAGASH Yeah, he'd be another fun one. Though if we're casting a wider net I'd probably go with Archaon. On top of the usual absurd martial ability and irresistible charisma, he inherited big E's antipathy toward the chaos gods, and he also seems to be a perpetual based on, you know, somehow surviving the end times.

[@josephkhihli1304]

I believe Lorgar's fall to Chaos was his inability to move up from the phases that shake his life.As you can see he has almost a natural urge to worship something and together with the manipulation of Erebus and Kor Phaeron there is no way Lorgar can realize that he was a puppet of worst puppets of Chaos.So i believe Lorgar is half to blame for what he had done and the other half is of course the two ass$*">

[@DarkCatfish]

Whatever you think of Lorgar as a person or primarch, he is one of the few characters in the setting who have truly won. He's found his gods that he wanted to worship and to boot the entire Imperium follows a religion that he created.

[@frankzappa9853]

Lorgar is my favorite primach of the traitor legions. People get to wrapped up in good guys and bad guys lorgar is a interesting character

[@mcspooky8180]

Merry Christmas! I've been watching you for a while, and you're the reason I've fully delved into playing 40k on the table. thanks you so much

[@potatortheomnipotentspud]

If only Big E took the time to explain to his Imperium what a psyker was, perhaps the Word Bearers could have been saved.

[@m.k.738]

Corax is pretty convinced everything that happened is Lorgars fault.

[@budderk1305]

warhams 40k is a parody of Fascism? say it ain't so ?!?!?!?!

[@michaelcharles7757]

Hey I just wanna say that your videos are a blessing and a curse. A blessing being how well made they are, choice of music, your voice, and your delivery. The curse being that your videos are so good that I’m now reading the books…but not wanting to be spoiled, I have chosen not to watch your perfect videos anymore. It’s a horrible situation 😭😭😭

[@generalnawaki]

My only gripe is that in First Heretic it is shown that Lorgar's gift is that he can kind of see the warp in its truest form at all times if he just lets his eyes un focus.

[@qwefg3]

Logar felt the worse to me mostly because of his actions or more precisely... Taking responsibility for them. Say what you want about the others who suck, but they do accept the blame of their own actions for the most part. By most part I mean when they do something they take responsibility for when they do it. Logar doesn't. When he followed Big E, he did everything of 40K messed up imperium in 30K... And when Big E told him to stop and stop claiming that Big E was a god, and thus everything Logar did including the rather cruel religious worlds Logar made during his crusade... Logar got angry that he was being told to take responsibility for his actions. So much to the point when demons told him they would torture his legion for fun in exchange for letting Logar now claim that demons were making him do his actions rather than Big E... Logar let his legions get tortured as now he could claim that he wasn't at fault for his actions as demons told him to do all the messed up stuff he was already doing. Logar wants to be a victim, because if he isn't a victim then that would imply he might be the one at fault rather than anyone else being the problem. Magnus is the idiot genius who believed he could do no wrong. Logar was just the idiot who believed he could do no wrong because 'someone else' told him to 'do it'. That is why he is on the bottom of my primach list.

[@takosos]

Malcador felt sorrow for not being able to save Lorgar. If only Lorgar knew how much his uncle cared for almost all the primarchs. He might have been able stay long enough to realize that he had something better than deity worship. He has a father and he has brothers and he has an uncle.

[@ronantheronin3521]

And he has a God Emperor. The Emperor was a God. 40k has shown time and time again the power of his bllessings.

[@thedeceiver-g3r]

You got a camo on that van, you need to get like 60 kids for that one.

[@EvelynVash]

Konrad is not weak what are we talking about here. He’s one of the best fighters to be completely honest and before he went fully nuts he has some pretty crazy feats. Like kinda stupid feats to be honest. He 2v1ed the lion and guilliman and stuck a whole lighting claw through the robot and one through the lions neck.

[@darthrevanihilus1108]

Yup.

[@Boneworm852]

Ok at 6 minutes in i wanna go on my own tangent- _what is a god?_ Is there a specific threshold of power between mortal, demi-god, and god? Is there some substance gods contain? Does a god require worship to be a god? What's the necessary condition of godhood???? Ok onto the rest of the video, this is the first of yours I've watched and im really liking it

[@patrickiamonfire965]

The Empire being the thing what he accuses other religions to be is intentionally (something that did happened in irl in certain countries saying how they’re violent only to do the same things they accuse of because beliefs and ideologies will always be weaponised especially if there desperate people who are willing to follow it). He is a fascist at the core. He ignored some of Malcador advice which could very well changed the setting probably for the better. It’s ok to feel something when you read a story and it ok to relate and to share your experience about something similar as that’s what makes stories interesting. We can see it happening and feel empathy and sympathy. To feel things is why we like stories especially when they resonate with us. Also you are right about these people and I agree. Plus there’s lot of research done which actually proves your points.

[@MastemaJack]

You don't know what fascism is

[@patrickiamonfire965]

@ it is a centralised authority government system where it is a capitalist system where the government where the government subjects its economy to stringent controls. It is often times blends with ultranationalism and totalitarianism. There are so far several types of it. I’m actually quite aware about this particular subject as I have studied for this along with economics and psychology. I can also recommend good channels for explaining and exploring history and these topics. In short yeah I do know so why did you assumed that I wouldn’t.

[@ethanduncan726]

I feel so much empathy for lorgar and the word bearers

[@LouisNall]

Have you read the Word Bearers Omnibus?

[@ethanduncan726]

@ no, first heretic, betrayer, lorgar primarch book. That’s my main frame of reference. But seeing them pop up as side characters in other books always make me smile.

[@LouisNall]

@@ethanduncan726 40k era word bearers are complete monsters. The main character, Marduk manages to escape a ship with some help from a pirate in one book, and the next page Marduk's wondering how that guy's fairing in the slave mines on Sicarus.

[@PaulieWalnuts1964]

@@LouisNall based?

[@grantgrosse6978]

It sucks when your brother smashes your Lego set you lose a father when he puts your death star into the fire for being bad at math

[@chaseriley4315]

Lorgar has always been my favorite traitor primarch, and its for two reasons, first his adamant beleif in God's and a type of religion, that is actually a religion make him interesting. second is his fall into chaos worship is very similar to what I have seen in real people who have had a crisis of faith and a crisis of identity without support (or at least positive support) and as a Man of Faith and Religion. I find myself sympathizing with Lorgar. His whole story always made me think of the moral, "those you exile will become your devil's" and with Lorgar and the Word Bearers that turns out to be far more spot on than anything

[@MarshallWalls-hq9fk]

Mortarion is a great character because he is very human, and that´s what people dont like. They see in him the traits they dislike in themselves. Lorgar is also a great character for the same reasons. I also love Mortarion for wanting to end tyranny, which is a great trait in a person. And yes he becomes in the end what he hates, which makes the whole thing even more interesting. I think most 40k fans and youtubers jump into the hate train a bit too fast regarding certain characters and factions, when they most likely have not even really tried to understand them. I personally find the traitor primarchs usually more interesting than the loyal ones, as they are more rebellious towards tyranny which is very cool.

[@frankzappa9853]

Really it all lands at the emperor's feet he is responsible for Logars fall he went full autism and destroyed lorgar

[@facelift.]

Glad to see my favorite primarch pretty well summed up without the usual blind hate for him, and the Word Bearers as a whole.

[@Enoch_Trismegistus]

As someone who's lost it all and been in the dark room, you're right. It's not good company to keep. The silence is deafening. Where I find myself in stark contrast to Lorgar is that what we do with that cacophony of nothing. He became a victim instead of accepting the level of his responsibility for his own situation. I am where I am by my own naivete. My own ignorance. Believed in things I shouldn't have. At least not for the right reasons. My gods are dead. So why not try to make new ones? Ones that live up to my expectations? To be the beauty I had hoped for preexisting deities to be that never were. Like the humans of the Tau Auxiliaries, fuck you, I make my own gods from spit, blood, and a bit of mad faith in the idea that maybe I won't make some god, but dammit I can make some good can't I?! Lorgar ran to the nearest easy answer and assigned a value to those new gods they never deserved so he could justify his victim behind a wall of "I told you so" so then at least he didn't have to face reality in it's full brunt. In the end, his sin, just like so many of his brothers, is hubris. A desire. A draw. A flaw to never just take responsibility.

[@Sephiroth36977]

I don't like Lorgar. That being said, "Betrayer", "First Heretic", and "Auralian" were absolutely fantastic reads and I can confidently say I don't hate his stupid guts as much as I expected too. His entire character changes when he realizes he doesn't have to be a fighter, he can fully commit to being a cleric.

[@Miron_Marnic]

Merry Christmas!

[@kiskara]

Why blame Lorgar when there's a perfectly fine Emperor right there?

[@MichelSusanna]

Thanks for the breakdown! Could you help me with something unrelated: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). What's the best way to send them to Binance?

[@justinwetmore9409]

I loved your Christmas Eve stream ❤

[@Cmdtheartist]

I'll be honest. You got a little Lorgar-y there yourself. I was waiting for you are there to finish with a "Thank you, Grandfather Nurgle for all the bed sores, Khorne for the chipped teeth, Tzeentch for the homework during Christmas break, and Slaanesh for that rash that will NOT go away. For this we give thanks AHHHHHHMEN."

[@TheKeyton777]

I wouldn't worry to much about the comments goblins that love fascism Their brains don't function well enough to do much

[@ChimneyJuice]

I wouldn't worry "too" much. When talking about functioning brains is pretty ironic.