LOST: MiB and his "mother" down in the well [6x15-Across the Sea]

[@phoenixmission]

After watching this episode, I longer thought that the MIB was the "bad guy". For the sake of god he just wanted to leave that rock. After being deceived by both his mother and Jacob, and trapped in the island for 2 thousand years, I would have become a real mother f%## as well.

[@katyschubert6736]

same here

[@TheodoreBotman]

It's been 11 years but if MIB left the island after he became smokey it's implied/said it would cause the end of the world. This guy died in this episode, and then got infected by "Evil" and then just takes on his form. The mother was the real villain though, she should have just let him leave.

[@guyledouche7939]

@@TheodoreBotman that's only a metaphor for what happened, and how the only way Jacob can communicate such things to people from different times like the Egyptians and Richard. In reality, mib can leave the island, but only if he turns off the Source, no longer binding him to it like a magnet. The problem is, the Source is the birthplace of the universe, and the collective consciousness of everyone who ever lived. Hence, leaking the Source out, by removing the cork would destroy the world, not the actual act of him leaving the island. He was not infected with evil. His consciousness was merely uncoupled from his body, and he was given the ability to scan people's memories and take the appearance of the dead, essentially making him an immortal collection of experiences. He knows what lies beyond the island through scanning other people, never being able to leave, never being able to die and rejoin the Source. Obviously, this would drive any person mad, determined, manipulative, and apathetic to life. A fate worse than death. This is how Mother describes it, seeing as she is herself both protector and smoke monster. You should check out the channel Lost Explained. I thought I understood the show in it's entirety until I watched his series that explains everything concisely, but with detail.

[@guyledouche7939]

@Daddy the show was very clear on many occasions, shown from the perspective of the man in black, that he was the smoke monster, and Mother was a smoke monster before him. It's merely a consequence of what happens after making direct contact with the Source. As Mother says, it's a fate worse than death. And she knew it because it happened to her. The vague lines given by Dogen and the metaphor given by Jacob to explain what happened to his brother to a 19th century man are not a literal telling of what the black smoke monster is. There is no evidence in the show that there is some sentient incarnate evil bent on destroying the universe, however everything explicitly and implicitly explained by the show states that the smoke monsters consciousness is in fact, originally human, especially given the fact that a huge motive in the show is good and evil exist in everyone, and no one is completely evil, it wouldn't make sense to add a being of evil incarnate and then give no confirmation of such a thing.

[@guyledouche357]

@Daddy my comments cover this. Jacob isn't being literal here. He's trying to explain the Island to a man from the 19th century Christian who is still thinking in terms of heaven/hell, God/The Devil. He isn't describing what happens when the mib leaves the island. He's talking about what happens when the Source grows dark, which is necessary for the mib to leave the island. As Mother says, if the light goes out here, it goes out everywhere. So if the mib leaves the island, that means the Source has gone dark. In which case everyone in the world/universe would die.

[@FOLLABAMBAS]

-How do you know this? -I'm Special, mother.

[@Communist-Doge]

He had a lot in common with Locke. At least, in terms of his thinking.

[@cerdic6586]

@@Communist-Doge How so?

[@RadagonTheRed]

This scene would have been SO much better if just after she asked “How do you know this will work?” MIB threw something at the light or the water and we saw it vanish, as though transported off the Island! At least this way it would explain how he knew it would probably work.

[@NZpower018]

No shit when MIB told Kate about his ''crazy'' mother... That was probably one of the rare moments he spoke the truth.

[@Tom_Xtremee_]

MIB takes on the personality of the person he impersonates, and Locke's mother was crazy too, so it's unclear which mother he meant when he said he had a crazy mother

[@omega_orioles]

Is MiB really evil and bad? He just wants off the island and recognizes the ppl he's with are manipulative and greedy. Seems like he's not that bad a character until he kills the woman who killed his real mom and all the ppl he was living with. He's not even the smoke monster, just the smoke monster using his body.

[@Jay-eq9gb]

He becomes evil, but he was turned that way via sympathetic means.

[@supremeworld87]

He is the Smoke Monster. The MiB made contact with the source before the cork stone system was installed, a fate referred to as being worse than death, his consciousness then merged with part of that energy and he became an entity driven solely by a single minded malevolent desire to leave. That desire is ALL he is at that point, none of his humanity remains and he still retains that disgust that he has for human beings, seeing them only as playthings he can use to acheive his goals and has no regard for human life. He is, in may ways, darkness. And this is what leads to Jacob labelling him evil incarnate. He believes that at the heart of the island is an evil that must be contained and that his brother now represents an escaped part of that evil. Which is why he would never let him leave

[@JewTube001]

nope. everyone was evil to him. he's like a black slave killing their masters or something. it was their fault. all he wanted was the freedom to go to rome.

[@aresef]

I think Mother gamed this out-whether Smokey was good or bad, what he was doing put her charge-the light-at risk. So she had to act fast, incapacitating the man in black, killing all those people, making Jacob take over her job and bringing the man in black’s rage onto her. That’s why she said “thank you” after the man in black stabbed her. What she didn’t account for was how Jacob would react.

[@nss1250]

MIB will spread sickness and manipulate people look at Rousseau team the writers labelled him the villain

[@marcink.7645]

The origin of the Orchid station

[@saqiboy]

this MiB is still alive and runs a bar on that island.

[@joeysfather2723]

The MIB you're seeing in this clip is the same MIB who saw his real mother as a kid and knows that he came from across the sea.

[@thepostnihilist]

And this fake mother is one of many disguises for the devil, just as Jacob is, and just as Ben Linus is when he is left outside of the church on the final episode.

[@Victo160]

The people the MIB is with are kind of like the Early Dharma. Smart people wanting to use the energy for science. Cool how it reflects the actual DI.

[@you-cf7df]

They are Egyptians, MIB is Set, Jacob is Horus, the mother is Taweret ou Isis and the Source is the Nu.

[@LazlaTheFallen]

@@you-cf7df close but not really.. Jacob is Ra, Mib is Apep. Hurley is Horus and Ben is Set. Locke is Osiris and Jack is Anubis, Richard is Thoth and Jacks dad is Nun(Nu)

[@NuXta]

@@LazlaTheFallen Yeah and I'm your Irish uncle, fruitcake

[@dallama182]

@@NuXta Victo and Lazla make an interesting point: it's the same story just repeating over different iterations of time.

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@LazlaTheFallenWhat a bull! Why are you crossing his arguments when he clearly refers to the egyptian times there and you randomly give characters that names cuz you fantasized that in your mind?

[@thelongestname9926]

Nobody here seems to realize, that the MiB *before* becoming the smoke monster wasn’t supposed to be evil; getting thrown into the Source turned him into evil incarnate, but before that, he was a good person who just wanted to be free.

[@peoplez129]

Becoming the smoke monster didn't make him evil. As the mother explains, everyone has a bit of the light in them, but they always want more, but they can't actually take more light, all they can do is destroy the light. What happened to him when he went into the light was some of his light was lost, absorbed back into the light, and the absence of light is darkness. The base state of the universe is actually these clouds of black electric smoke. The light is the only thing that makes the universe what it is, some kind of special particles that are a fundamental force that shapes reality, keeping away the darkness from destroying it. The smoke monster isn't a being, it's a force. Before the light, the entire universe was made of nothing but black electrical smoke. Then at some point something happened that caused the light particle to come into existence, giving birth to the universe, like a big bang. The dimensions of space were altered to where this bubble universe was created, and space inverted in on itself, trapping the darkness like wine in a bottle, with the light being the cork to that bottle. The smoke has no will, people merging with its nature give it will. It's only called evil as an analogy. What it really means to call it evil is that if men can use it, they will use it for evil, because it will make them have more abilities than other men. And a universe where everyone could use the black smoke, just becomes a universe devoid of actual life, not that that could happen anyways, because if the light goes out, we wouldn't simply exist as dark smoke beings, we would cease to exist entirely. It's like matter vs antimatter. Black smoke can annihilate existence itself, turning the universe into nothing but mindless black clouds of energy. No beauty. No love. No sentience. Nothing. That's why it was soo important to protect the light. It was a delicate but powerful thing that allowed existence to exist. Tampering with it was tampering with all of existence.

[@stillgotyourmom]

​@@peoplez129He wasnt the smoke when do you people get that? The smoke was hold in the temple and MiB ran around free.

[@marocat4749]

@@peoplez129 Ok he was a person, and not pure gfood, but he justr wanted to leave, and ther was no harm in him leaving before. Add his mom is pretty crazy and lied to him. And didnt want to let him go, and murder his new friends. I would say caring about people isnt evil, If anyone is told what she totell people, chances are they are in a cult. By the way. Its not unreasonable to act against her, healthy even. Again, he just wanted to leave. Smokey is a mix of the darkness, that might drove the mom crazy, and the pretty traumatic stuff happening at once. He wasnt the same anymore.

[@baddoer]

Mib was never an evil person. He is epitome of curiosity and determination, basic human instincs. He wanted to know who he is and where he is from, to explore. Jacob is simply afraid of losing his friend but also attached to the island, epitome of devotion and care. Man of science vs man of faith, main narrative of this show.

[@CuriousChronicles82275]

He's on a revenge spree

[@FastFordClub]

Was An Awesome Show

[@Damon242]

I took his being 'special' as referring to his ability to communicate with the dead, and his dead mother feeding him the info (like the dead do to Hurley, they all know more than they should about everything). All they needed to do was to show her in the corner somewhere lol I'm not exactly upset they didn't. We never question why and how Hurley and Miles can do the things they do, but we question MIB and Walt? It's a bit weird, but even I can't help it lol

[@yevgeniyaleshchenko849]

In this scene I sympathize with MiB.... He is not evil yet, not smokey... But SHE will make him to become one (yeah, technically Jacob but she pushed him to this , destroyed his life, and himself)

[@TheCaptain008]

Isn't this a metaphor about how science destoryed man? Like the whole thing of our downfall was the discovery of making fire and the wheel? Plus in older clips with the man in black talking to Jacob about having really intelligent people, and Jacob not really getting it because he never questioned it or wanted more. The island is sort of a metaphor of having everything you need there, BUT also the potential of having more and harnessing power. The whole show I feel is Jacob and his mom, Bernard and Rose, two sets of people who want nothing but simplicity and to live happily with what's provided. And then there's every other character which are all variables and each character representing their own selfish desires or ideology that's ultimately toxic. They all represent different cultures, different social or financial classes. Just fickle people fighting. But it all comes down to Jacob, his mum, and Bernard and Rose. People who love and want simplicity and nothing else.

[@yevgeniyaleshchenko849]

Interesting perspective

[@thepostnihilist]

Wow, you were deceived. "Jacob" was Satan.

[@lisaross9335]

@@thepostnihilist but everything Jacob says is what the god of abraham says?

[@thepostnihilist]

@@lisaross9335 It is actually a corruption of what God said because Satan wants to be like God and therefore copies God: "For thou hast said in thine heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.'" - Isaiah 14:13-14

[@nss1250]

@@thepostnihilist for the writers of the show jacob was not evil , nor satan , he made many mistakes but MIB was evil, plus this is fiction , I don't know why you use biblical verses to prove something about fiction show

[@davestheman83]

MIB's grillin' in the well

[@kulturny_vklad]

This acting is one of a kind, hearwrenching and deep

[@mackaveli8503]

What if mother got too close to the center of the island and became a smoke monster herself? Maybe she realized afterwards and tried to stop others from making her mistake... maybe she knew what would happen to MIB if he stayed there too long

[@jamiestewart48]

She has to have been a smoke monster too. She drags him out of that well, kills his people, fills the well in. All in a short time. She also appears here silently, away from the ladder and facing him as through she didn't use the ladders.

[@marocat4749]

She probably was a smoke monster and the protector. I guess the smoke monste rside drove her crazy. I can forgive her way more the smokemonste side just twists people, even through the protector side might helped.

[@zaandarbrow]

If u mess with the light does it screw with time and space?

[@terracottapie]

Ben turned the donkey wheel at the end of Season 4. It started the whole time jumping shit. So yeah, kinda

[@KS-xk2so]

The island moves around the globe naturally. Using this wheel does remove the user from the Island, but also forces the Island to move, and damages the Light. That's why everyone was time jumping. Locke fixed it in ancient times, but the Light was diminished as a result. When Mother shows them the Light as boys the whole mouth of the cave is light up with Light. By modern day its obviously much less bright. My assumption is after the time jumping was fixed, the Light was diminished or damaged, and Jacob has the Egyptians on the Island at the time repair it with the cork we eventually see in the Finale.

[@andybrookes3519]

Can we agree that the mother was the true villain of the series Lost. She killed Jacob and MIBs really mother and she killed MIBs people and stopped him being able to leave the island. This making him kill her which led Jacob into making him into Smokey and the rest is history!

[@stillgotyourmom]

You weirdos dont get that there isnt any good or bad thats actually the message of this show. A bad one is a good in another timeline and death cleans it up all while many depend on the purpose they believe in but after all its a decision of their souls.

[@marocat4749]

Probably she was a victim too, and messing up. That is if the smoke monster just naturally takes peoples darkest sides, she probably too was driven crazy by it. Which makes her reasoning more understandable. She was crazy but , that might have been the smoke side making he rextremely paranoid. Which makes it at least understandably why she wanted to die , or pass that on. just he got all the dark and jacob all the light.

[@petrdominika6761]

All about what we can agree is that the mythology of island was pretty sht.

[@zexpow]

if MIB were to be described in modern day 2012, he would be considered a SCIENTIST, cuz back then, there was no such to describe his level of knowledge, and the only way to describe back in MIB the days was "special". a large sum of audience say cop out. yeah right..

[@baddoer]

What lies in the shadow of the statue?

[@Damon242]

@tittyslapper7 And no, it is MIB. The 'Across the Sea' commentary confirms this.

[@2822MJ]

Wow CJ Cregg has fallen on hard times.

[@ZuluRomeo]

MIB became a Man of Science. Jacob was a Man of Faith.

[@desmondiis3826]

Question. If MiB doesn't actually attach the wheel to the wall, and the well is destroyed, how does it end up being on the wall in the future?

[@barbiquearea]

I assume he finished building it, however for some reason as the smoke monster it no longer works for him.

[@GonzoGolf]

Jacob used it in a bunch of different places all over the island to travel through time forward and backward to meet the candidates, thats when we he started to get involved with the people who came to the island

[@supremeworld87]

It was completed at a later date by the Egyptians on the island, as implied by the hieroglyphs all over the Frozen Donkey Wheel chamber. Its hinted that the egyptians had a presence on the island both before and after the arrival of Jacob and his brother

[@marocat4749]

Someone else found and finished it.

[@cosmicowl2372]

Light + Water + Wheel = Leaving the island... This was the episode where it became obvious they weren't going to give us any logical answers.

[@jenng1770]

+CosmicUndeadElf Lost never had a lot of logical answers, but that was better than giving no answers.

[@cosmicowl2372]

Best Eevee Yeah I just meant that when you watch seasons 2-5 it seemed as though there was a scientific explanation for it all, with characters like Daniel Farady talking about electromagnetism, time travel, and all that. It's a shame that the big reveals were not more based in science fiction, rather than biblical type stuff

[@notme___1]

Drink wine/water - become Protector Logic.

[@cosmicowl2372]

ILKO Nikolov "Now you're like me" etc

[@Omariau]

+CosmicUndeadElf Yeah that was the rupture for me. Lost was exciting when you had Dr Chang explaining you how the island electromagnetism works. Then when they showed us how the monster was created, I litteraly laughed watching the episode live. Pathetic, so many possibilities, and they chose the worst way to explain it all.

[@Hankblue]

Mother uses Harpy Charge It's Super Effective!!

[@aresef]

You know what I just figured out? If MIB died before he could finish the frozen donkey wheel and Mother sabotaged it, who finished it?

[@supremeworld87]

It was the Egyptians. There are hieroglyphs all over the chamber where the donkey wheel is. They were also responsible for installing the cork stone in the heart of the island

[@jackdavinci]

He could still take physical form after he became the smoke, he finished it himself, he just was no longer in a form that could leave the island even with the wheel

[@RomulusIrl]

MiB represents humanity, that's why he is "special".

[@skydreamer4225]

@KingInTheNorth agree tho

[@Damon242]

@tommylogik2 The magic box doesn't exist. Once you become aware of the submarine, there's your answer. Which is why it's funny when John asks him if the Orchid is the magic box. Ben's reaction is priceless. The magic box is another example of Ben screwing around with John, he does this all throughout season 3 to tease him. The reversal in season 5, even if it isn't really john, is all the more satisfying because of this.

[@walkingdeadfanaticwalkerst5958]

What year setting is this taking place?

[@Quball_Productions]

Check the Wiki for the episode. Think it's B.C. before the Egyptians arrived.

[@KS-xk2so]

Yeah from context clues its pretty obvious the Egyptian settlers of the Island knew about the Smoke Monster, so therefore Jacob and MiB would've been born and grew up before that. Then at a certain point Jacob allowed some Egyptians to find the Island, and they built the Statue, the Temple, Lighthouse, etc.

[@tommylogik2]

@aurio01 I think you are spot on! Ben refered to the 'magic box' in season 3, and I interperate that as meaning the island is like a 'genie' for want of a better discription and those who are connected to it ie John Locke MIB etc can manipulate that power any way they want. for example Johns dad appearing..and the wheel just 'working' for MIB

[@oshanepatterson5452]

She wasn't his real mom.

[@alirezaagah6853]

GREAT

[@AJ-ch3pk]

There's no way she'd be able to hit him against the wall that hard like that.

[@JewTube001]

never underestimate a psycho bitch

[@Uxoriouswidow]

The best scene in Lost history

[@ch1bob]

i think this has to do with CERN

[@CosmicUndeadElf]

@tittyslapper7 Yeah I think it can take on the appearance of people that he scans with that flash of light, but it isn't able to look like them while they are still alive. The reason he is special is probably cause he was born on the island and he is able to communicate with it just like Locke could. Seems to me like Locke was the reincarnation of Jacob's brother, the similarities between the them suggest they're linked somehow.

[@BlueShift815]

So who finished building the wheel? The next scene shows the well filled in and the people killed...did someone return to complete it later on? It was finished by the time Dharma discovered it as they're scans showed the wheel in position

[@jantirdil9885]

I think MiB did it after he became Smoke Monster, but since he was no longer human, he couldn't use it and stay stuck on that damned rock... looking for another way to leave

[@KS-xk2so]

Yeah it seems like the Egyptians built the wheel, based on the Hieroglyphs seen in the chamber when Ben uses it. The Egyptians came to the Island after all this happened, and built the Temple, Statue, Lighthouse, The Cork, etc. Some of the carvings in the Tunnels and Temple make it seem like some of the Egyptians may have worshipped the Smoke Monster as one of their gods at one point, so maybe he taught them how to build it.

[@zenmonk5403]

I think the mother was also black smoke. She went into the heart herself and that's why she told them so adamantly to never go down there. Don't see her wrecking the entire place by other means.

[@3aadel]

Is the mother a black smoke as well??

[@Mr33500]

No, she was like Jacob

[@barbiquearea]

Sort of. I assume she had some of its powers as she was able to single handily massacre MIB's people and fill up the well all by herself.

[@paulmusungu6693]

Probably. I think she was like both Jacob's and the black smoke. Else how else did she clap all those chaps at once?

[@artembaranov]

@@Mr33500 I she was like Jacob, she wouldn't kill their real mother. Obviously, she was a smoke monster.

[@KS-xk2so]

I don't think she was the smoke monster, that was unleashed accidentally by Jacob. Being the Guardian of the Light comes with certain powers. One that we know of is the ability to set "rules" on the Island. Jacob and MiB cannot kill each other due to these rules. They say flat out that Mother "made it that way". So perhaps she used that ability to kill them all. Either by making a rule that somehow disabled them all, or imbued her with great powers temporarily.

[@AJ-ch3pk]

wtf is he doing with that fire?

[@pavelmatiyek]

вот что бы все было в порядке, надо было просто его отпустить...

[@zenastronomy]

mib is not the smoke monster at this point. but he's being directed by the smoke monster to make this contraption that would allow him to leave the island according to the smoke monster. but the smoke monster is lying to him, this contraption would allow the smoke monster to leave the island which would destroy all life on earth.

[@IllyrianHighlander]

Loved the show but disappointed a little with the “because I am special” line. She could of explained the job to him and why he was special and it would of been better if he refused!

[@dev.1359]

Worst written scene in all of Lost lol. I always cringe every time during the "I'm special" line

[@doct0rnic]

I wonder if MIB was trying to get back to Africa, he built the wheel, logic would suggest that he designed the "exit".

[@user-hu9vi7nk1l]

His mother was from spain. The system was designed by the egyptians years later.

[@artembaranov]

She is smocke monster.

[@belgianheskey]

I never saw him as the bad guy

[@zaandarbrow]

Mother wanted MIB to replace her but then he was evil so then she gave the power to Jacob and after MIB Killed mother Jacob transformed him into the smoke monster and then they hated each other but they cant kill each other so then Jacob brought others to the island and Richard escaped from the ship so mib used him to kill jacob but that faild and now its normal Day Rules for the island but now Jacob is getting replaced by the remaining candidates and smoke monster wants to kill them and get out

[@Damon242]

@zexpow I don't see it. How does he sound like Sephiroth?

[@KibaRanger_Kou]

What's even worse is that she is supposed to be the good one in this whole thing. Who can't relate to the MiB? He wants to move out of a shit place he lives in. Who can't relate to that

[@raulbetancourt5795]

This is why you don't imposse a shit destiny in a person's life, no one have the right to control people's lives.

[@minervasilver6659]

Stannous Berwrathagain wait abl min what happened

[@casinosnew4962]

I've just realised that this man in black was good and the devil wanted to use him. He was the loophole. So she had to stop him. But why did she kill their mother in cold blood? And why was she a bit of a loony tune? If she was a guardian of the light, she should not have done that to the mother.

[@KS-xk2so]

I always assumed she was nuts because she had been living alone for god knows how long. It's why she thanked MiB when he killed her, she was tired of living. She killed their mother because she wanted the kids, and to be the only one to raise them, so she could raise them to take over her job, and tell them there was nothing but the Island, to ensure they wouldn't ever abandon their duty.

[@kreipflagra3116]

I read a theory about the mother actually being from the modern age, and was transported in time, like how the others time-travelled, except she went really far bad. One of the clues, they wrote, were the painfully obvious american accent when she spoke latin. Opposed to the other actress who spoke properly. You could call it bad acting but who knows

[@FreshZCORD]

Yeh i think its just her having a hard time hiding accent

[@Damon242]

@aurio01 When you're immortal, patience must come easy lol

[@ozwunder69]

Then he said I'm alt right lol

[@Damon242]

It's either that or the penned 'intuitive aptitude'. But whatever the case, all we need to take away from this is that he's special.

[@moneynews4333]

Special like John Locke and open to coercion.

[@josepoika5388]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death unto life. This verse is from the Christian Holy Bible, and the speaker is Jesus Christ. My friend! Your sins (All bad deeds, thoughts, neglect of duty in the good things that belong to you, e.g. all wrongdoing is a sin!) Your debt before God has been paid, and therefore you can pray for example: God, Jesus, I am a sinner, forgive my sins, and become the Lord of my heart, and give me your Good Spirit! YOU HAVE NO HOPE OF GOING TO HEAVEN BUT JESUS ​​CHRIST, THE LIVING SON OF THE LIVING GOD!!!!

[@paulmusungu6693]

As misguided as she was, in a sense she was right. He has a strange gift of suddenly knowing how things work. Imagine he had left and gotten back to the world, as naive as he was here. He wouldn't know what to do with the evil and wickedness he'd find. He wouldn't be patient. Imagine the problems he would cause knowing all he knew..

[@KS-xk2so]

His gift is the ability to see and talk with the ghosts on the Island. They were the ones who whispered the secrets of how to build the wheel and other Island knowledge to him.

[@mattt21]

​@@KS-xk2so Where was this revealed?

[@andreina9305]

I liked this episode, it wasn't bad but it was frustrating

[@Jay-eq9gb]

It was a good standalone episode, the only problem was that it shouldn't have been the only one of this type. We needed one or two more Island themed flashbacks like this for some more information. I've always felt the final season should have been longer than 4 and 5 were to fit that in. Either that or significantly shorten the flash-sideways story.

[@dev.1359]

This may be the worst written scene in all of Lost lol.