LOST Reaction - 1x12 Whatever the Case May Be - FIRST TIME WATCHING! What's in the Case already?!?

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Hope you enjoy my first time watching Episode 1x12 (WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE) of LOST.
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[@joyceandrews5484]

Hi Neil, The number of times I have watched Lost, I never picked up on Shannon's belief "that she is useless", has been programmed into her mind all her life. This gives me a new feeling of sympathy for Shannon that I never had before. Thanks for pointing that out!

[@NeilTalks]

It's quite clear to me, Joyce, that no character in this show will remain 'simple'. They all have confusing complexities - just like all of us in the real world.

[@UGLYP1G]

"So what else is in the case, Kate?" "Evidence." That would have been all you'd need to say, Kate. Acting all secretive about it is what built it up in Jack's mind to the point where it became this huge important thing that he HAD to know.

[@NeilTalks]

Very True, but then we'd have a 20 minute episode with only a B Plot. :) Also, I think perhaps Kate has a distinction between actively lying, and passively keeping a secret. In her mind, one is worse than the other - and even though she does it frequently, especially in this episode, she'd prefer not to lie, and when she does it kinda tears her up.

[@Eowyn187]

Beautiful scene with Rose praying with Charlie.

[@NeilTalks]

Charlie definitely needed that moment.

[@Eowyn187]

@@NeilTalks he surely did.

[@reatores]

Both Evangeline and Dominic are quite underrated IMO... their characters may not be a lotta people's favorite but their acting is great, especially after rewatches, you see how much they contributed.

[@NeilTalks]

I don't think there's a bad actor in the bunch. Which, for an ensemble of this size, is quite notable.

[@charmedoriginal5923]

Another awesome reaction, Neil 🌴🛫🌄🛬🌴 This episode takes place on days 21 - 22 after the crash of Oceanic Flight #815. TRIVIA: The title is a pun: "whatever the case may be" refers to both the mystery surrounding the Marshal's briefcase and the mystery surrounding Kate's past. The behind-the-scenes reason for the "unusual tides" that are about to submerge the fuselage was that actual seasonal tides on the North shore of Oahu would have eventually flooded the shooting site for real, thereby submerging the fuselage set and causing an ecological disaster. Therefore, an in-story reason had to be found for the survivors moving their camp to a different location. The underwater scenes were not filmed in Hawaii, but instead in a tank in L.A.

[@NeilTalks]

Thanks as always, Charmed!

[@KingTofa]

The French song is "La Mer" which is the inspiration for the popular English song "Beyond the Sea." I was surprised to learn the French version was actually the original and the English one came second.

[@Jordan-Ramses]

The french always come first.

[@zpitzer]

Yes and the childrens movie shannon is refering to is "finding nemo"

[@NeilTalks]

I get into this a bit in my intro to 1x13. Stay tuned!

[@paintdaddyart7245]

i remember hearing the french version from the movie L.A Story starring Steve Martin

[@juliannrose5919]

I know I have said it before but the writing on this show is great. They had me changing my mind repeatedly when it came to these characters. It was the first TV show that gave me characters that were grey. It took me awhile to stop looking for the "Good guys "and the "Bad guys ".

[@NeilTalks]

That's the same reason my favourite show of all time is The Wire. It's full of 'good' guys doing bad things for good reasons, 'bad' guys being criminals for entirely justifiable and even noble reasons, and everything in between.

[@TheCalPH]

What's also interesting is that I've seen a lot of people recently saying how rewatching later in life has really changed their opions on certain characters (I've mostly seen this with Locke). People have said that as they aged, gone through their own struggles, maybe tried raising their own kids, etc. they can appreciate the motivations of some of them, empathize more with their backstories, etc. when perhaps the first time they were too young/immature/whatever to see or understand some things.

[@LeMansionnaire]

its beyond the sea and when she talked about a film, she talked about finding nemo

[@NeilTalks]

Yeah, I figured the Nemo reference was so bleeping obvious that it didn't even merit a reaction, so I cut mine out of the edit.

[@seanentrikin9263]

Great reaction and commentary as usual. If these flashbacks have taught us anything at this point, it's that our own assumptions and "judgements" of these characters are often incorrect. Or at least, incomplete. That's what so great about the repeated flashbacks (Jack last episode and Kate in this one). They (and we, as viewers) all have layers to us.

[@NeilTalks]

Very well said, Sean! Cheers!

[@george5954]

You'll definitely find answers to everything you're looking for, have no fret :) Just stick in for the journey haha. You're so right about how smartly Evangeline plays this character. There's a great special feature on the Season 1 DVD about casting called 'Before They Were Lost', and they talk about how Kate (who was initially supposed to be the leader since they planned to kill Jack in the pilot) was such a difficult character to bring to life. They read ~75 women of all different ethnicities or personalities but nothing clicked until they found Evangeline. Actually, a lot of the early stages of the characters were helped/informed by the actors they chose. Sun and Jin were created after Yunjin auditioned for Kate and they loved the actress so much and wanted to make her a regular. Anyway, thank god they did find Evangeline, she's subtle and charismatic and vulnerable and you can see it all in episodes like these. From what I remember, there were a ton of logistical problems in casting her since she had never worked before, wasn't part of the SAG, and didn't have an O1 visa etc, so she was nearly gonna be dropped back in Canada if they couldn't clear her, but luckily it all worked out in time and we got Kate :D

[@NeilTalks]

I'm pretty sure Evangeline was just working as a background performer in Vancouver before landing the role of Kate. Hers was one of those motivational stories other BG would tell each other, all looking for their big break.

[@george5954]

@@NeilTalks Oh for sure I can definitely imagine that. Of course, when I say she "hadn't worked before" I just mean on any significantly big projects like LOST. Leading studios in the US to likely think "why go through all the hassle for this actress who barely has any experience, just get an American actress" -- but yeah thankfully they stuck through the process and landed her. Defo an inspiring story for any aspiring actors trying to make it

[@juliet_burke]

@@NeilTalks no, Kate actress never acted before Lost. She worked in car fixing place and was just starting to work as a model when she sent a videotape to audition.

[@stillinhere]

The song is "Beyond the Sea" in English. A favorite for me.

[@NeilTalks]

It's a great song!

[@SJisJericho]

I believe it plays while credits roll in Finding Nemo

[@ccchhhrrriiisss100]

Is it me or was this song also the theme used in ads for either an airline or cruise ship during the 2000s? Maybe I am confusing it with the theme used in United Airlines ads?

[@grunions9648]

​@@ccchhhrrriiisss100 I think it was P&O Ferries.

[@Jordan-Ramses]

I don't think knowing that there is a hatch ruins anything. It doesn't really tell you anything. Is there something on the other side? If so what? There is no way you'd be able to guess. Knowing there is a hatch is like knowing there is an island.

[@RobTheWatcher]

There is an ISLAND?!

[@Jordan-Ramses]

@@RobTheWatcher damnit, there I go with spoilers again.

[@NeilTalks]

Where are my moderators when I need them?!? :)

[@junietunes2148]

Definitely one of the weaker episodes of Season 1, but there are some highlights. The Charlie and Rose scene is very touching, Sawyer trying to break open the case is hilarious. Kate has always been one of my least favorite characters, but at this point I was still dying to know what she actually did! Great reaction Neil!

[@NeilTalks]

Thanks Jessica! At this point, I still don't feel that I could even put together a list of my favourite characters. Or if I did, it would change completely after the next episode.

[@artemis2569]

Kate is the most misunderstood character in Lost in my opinion. But I see that you're a good judge of character and sooner or later I think that you'll agree with the few of us that love Kate, no matter what the majority think about her character.

[@MyselfandTom]

I agree. I had no idea how many people hated Kate until I started reading the comments in reaction videos. I love Kate. These writers are too good to write Kate badly. The only thing that ever frustrated me was the love triangle, but it did lead into how Kate was with men due to her past, so it actually makes sense once you understand that.

[@artemis2569]

@@MyselfandTom what frustrates me is why are people even bothered by the love triangle?? Hell, in my younger years I happened to be in love with two people at the same time! Both Jack and Sawyer have different qualities and the fact that she is attracted to both shouldn't be even an issue. I don't remember people being so upset when a specific male character was kissing two women at the same time but if it's Kate, it's the end of the world. Clearly they didn't pay attention to anything else but that!

[@MyselfandTom]

@@artemis2569 for me it wasn't that Kate liked 2 men at the same time. It was that the writers made it an issue that only Kate had to choose between the two. Jack and Sawyer can also make their own decisions, they could have taken themselves out of the triangle all together, but it was always "Kate has to choose". Kate didn't have to choose neither of them.

[@NeilTalks]

I'm sure my view of her will change many more times as I get deeper and deeper into this awesome show.

[@TomOnTheRun]

Majority rules for a reason. Just sayin'.

[@andreraymond6860]

'La Mer' or 'Beyond The Sea' was a top ten billboard song by Bobby Darin in 1959. It was also recorded by Frank Sinatra, Benny Goodman and others. It was originally recorded in French by Charles Trenet as early as 1943. It features in the Pixar movie 'Finding Nemo' (the movie about fish that Shanon refers to).

[@NeilTalks]

Thanks for being my personal Wikipedia, Andre! Much appreciated.

[@joshuaoehler5796]

Charlie's finger tape said "FATE" at first, then "'LATE".

[@NeilTalks]

Thanks for catching this, Joshua. I think I misspoke and dropped a 'HATE' in there.

[@andreraymond6860]

Upon first airing of the series people would talk about what's INSIDE of the hatch. Everyone calls it a hatch, which is misleading. If they dug up a hinge, would everyone wonder what's behind the hinge or inside of the the hinge? It always amused me.

[@NeilTalks]

Now you have me wondering what's in the hinge. Thanks.

[@krispurdy78]

I can't recall but I think Kate used an alias when she introduced herself with the farmer.

[@NeilTalks]

Now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure she did - I just can't remember if she used 'Maggie' then too.

[@christierobinson7707]

“La Mer”by Charles Trenet Found on Tunefind But it reminded me a kid song À la Claire Fontaine Which makes me think of fountain and Claire

[@birthdaybatter815]

“Beyond the Sea” by Bobby Darin is the song Rousseau wrote down the lyrics for, but I’m sure you figured that out by the time you uploaded this reaction.

[@hulubuluhejhej2721]

what if he havent?

[@birthdaybatter815]

@@hulubuluhejhej2721 then he knows now. Neil is a smart man, I trust he figured it out already.

[@ComeOnIsSuchAJoy]

And the movie in question was "Finding Nemo," of course.

[@NeilTalks]

Stay tuned for my intro to 1x13.

[@hulubuluhejhej2721]

@@birthdaybatter815 called a spoiler

[@raeliamrussi2679]

I love Kate. I always have. She's not a bad person at all. I hope you'll change your mind about her when you finish the series. She gets way too much unwarranted hate.

[@NeilTalks]

I certainly wouldn't say I hate Kate. I think I was just anticipating that she was going to be a 'good' character, and it's obvious that she's much more complex than that.

[@raeliamrussi2679]

@@NeilTalks All the characters are complex:) That's what makes them so great. Also, there are no random coincidences on LOST. All the details matter. This is one of the few shows that actually gets better with rewatches.

[@x-man9473]

I tried my best to love Kate. TECHNICAL SPOILER AHEAD Unfortunately, she's the first and probably worse victim of the "elevate Jack at all costs" writing that Lost writers were obsessed with doing throughout the series to multiple characters. They nerfed the living shit out of her character until there was nothing left.

[@HamazuraGOD]

I think for clarifications sake (2 years later, haha), i should state that Charlie's tape rings actually said FATE before he changed it to LATE, not HATE.

[@justsayin3000]

This guy is so high in the mix its bonkers.

[@buddystewart2020]

It's fun to go back and re-watch these series one reactions.

[@fraffa]

Halliburton's are real and are an expensive luggage brand. The case that they have probably would have cost a few hundred dollars back then.

[@NeilTalks]

That makes sense, I was just surprised that everyone who saw it immediately knew a) what brand it was, and b) that there was no way to pick the lock. I wonder if Halliburton paid for the product placement...

[@mollyminnas1661]

New subscriber here. Lost is my favorite show ever. Really nice reaction video and interesting thoughts/questions from you. Looking forward to upcoming episodes!

[@NeilTalks]

Thanks for the sub, Molly and welcome aboard!

[@itsabouttime815]

Shannon not only is perfectly tanned, but she always has a fresh pedicure aaaand new earrings with every outfit...😂😂😂

[@NeilTalks]

The hair, makeup and wardrobe departments need to have some fun on a show like this. And it is network tv, so unrealistic beauty standards are de rigueur.

[@itsabouttime815]

@@NeilTalks It's not unrealistic in the regular world... only after being in a plane crash. I always have a fresh pedicure and new earrings-but after a plane crash that would no longer be a priority. Maybe it gives her a sense of normalcy.

[@DarianHarder]

I always wondered where they got the clothes. Then I remembered. Duh, they did have suitcases of clothes-of course if you “checked it” you’d be screwed…but.

[@anthonyhayes9929]

Hey Neil! New subscriber here and major Lostie! I've seen pretty much every Lost reaction series on KZbin at this point and I've gotta say I don't think I've seen anyone picking up on all the little 'clues' as well as you have been! Also have you considered appointing mods for your comments section? Spoilers can be a killer (especially with Lost!)

[@NeilTalks]

Thanks so much, Anthony! I like to think I'm paying attention. :) I do have a couple of moderators in place already, and they've done a really solid job of protecting me from trolls and spoilers. However, I have to say that the Lostie community has been really awesome and respectful so far, and almost everyone wants to see me undertake the journey without it being ruined. Thanks again for subbing, and welcome aboard!

[@anthonyhayes9929]

@@NeilTalks glad to hear the Losties are towing the spoiler line!

[@charmedoriginal5923]

In regards to Kate I guess the question remains is she real good or really evil ? 🌴🛫🌄🛬🌴 Everything we have seen so far shows Kate is kind, helpful, and never wants to cause harm { she saved Ray Mullen from the blazing truck which allowed her to be caught, she wanted Ray to get his reward, she saved the bank manger and the hostages lives, and she volunteers for every mission } until we see her leading the bank robbery, which see says the plan was for no one to get hurt and just get the toy plane. So is she a hardened criminal or just doing what she has to for unknown reasons ? Since we don't know exactly what she did yet anything is possible from purposely killing someone to accidental killing someone to killing someone in self defense so I guess the jury really is still out on if Kate is Good or Evil, huh Neil ? *Kate Austen's aliases so far have been Annie, Monica Ryan, Katherine Dodd, and Katherine Ryan. *Katherine is a Greek name which means "pure", for whatever it's worth. *There are 15 letters in Katherine Austen's name. *When Jack was original suppose to be killed in the pilot and Kate was to become the groups leader she was written as an older woman traveling with her husband, whom she is separated from after he goes to the bathroom right before the crash. This idea eventually became what happened with Rose and her husband Bernard. *Kate's mugshot subject file is: 00-0428-23-5607-01, which contains the Numbers 4, 8, 23 and 42.

[@oieretxaburu7011]

The new beach is still a location. The producers just wanted to stop using the wreckage of the plane forever.

[@NeilTalks]

Yeah, I figured that out once I saw it in daylight. It would have been a shame if they moved both main Camp sets into sound stages. Otherwise, why are you shooting in Oahu, right?

[@dawggirl]

Too many dead bodies in this episode for me. ;) That one under water that had the case and then digging up the Marshall? Ick. The funniest part of the episode was seeing Hurley's reaction to Sawyer trying to open a Halliburton. Thanks for getting us off to a good start to the week and making Monday morning worth getting up early!

[@NeilTalks]

As many dead bodies on the island (3), as new deaths we learn about in the backstory (Kate's 'man she loved' plus the two henchmen).

[@TorontoHobbit]

@@NeilTalks I may be wrong, but I don't think Kate actually killed the henchmen - I think they only suffered non-fatal gunshot wounds.

[@NeilTalks]

@@TorontoHobbit You could easily be right, even though Kate proved herself to be quite proficient with those guns. I wouldn't be surprised if an ABC exec retconned that detail, just so Kate could still meet network images.

[@TomOnTheRun]

@@TorontoHobbit We really don't know if the henchmen died or not. What we do know is Kate shot three men and was the mastermind of a bank robbery. Whatever the case may be. ;-)

[@Eowyn187]

Oh now I'm dying to see more of you watching Kate. You're not gon sugar coat things. 👍

[@NeilTalks]

She does fascinate me. And the writers definitely love to mess with our perception of her.

[@JacopoBasanisi]

Audience (and Evangeline herself) complained about Kate being "just the female part in the love triangle". But Kate is a very interesting character. Part of her charme is obviously aesthetic, but she has layers and mysteries like everyone else. She was in fact the "original main character", when writer killed off Jack in the Pilot in the preliminary screenings, so maybe she lost some edge compared to her original self, but she is a good character. Hated characters are good written characters after all.

[@TomOnTheRun]

Yep, you have more discovery to Kate's character, Neil. Enjoy this twisting tale. Haha

[@JacopoBasanisi]

Omg Thomas More, is that another Lost easter Egg? Are you Locke's friend? ;)

[@Eowyn187]

@@NeilTalks yes and God bless these writers ☺ After this and The Leftovers, I'll commit to anything that's got Damon's name on it. Oh and there's a few characters that are more complex, layered, than the rest. Imo. One I can't stand, one I'm neutral about, and one I adore. 😁

[@Eowyn187]

Dude can you imagine how bored they are? All day with no job, responsibilities. Many hours with little to do. Might as well enjoy the beach and get a tan :))

[@NeilTalks]

Everyone other than Shannon seems to have taken on responsibilities. However, while I don't sympathize with her, I am starting to understand her.

[@bafmd]

Enjoyable reactions.

[@NeilTalks]

Thanks so much!

[@ellesinky8667]

Right?!, "Sawyer is such a scavenger!". Do you think he would have made a good addition to the Serenity crew in Firefly? ;p

[@ShadowDogProduction]

Rose is awesome.

[@NeilTalks]

If the island has a psychologist/therapist, it's her. :)

[@DarianHarder]

I want her backstory.

[@vorbis4860]

I'm with you on the issue of Shannon, man. It's like she wants to be useless, or just sets expectations really low because she doesn't think she's going to meet them. Believable but not likable, IMO.

[@NeilTalks]

Probably my least favourite character, but still fascinating and very well written.

[@vorbis4860]

@Rosamund Powell OK.

[@evilvolts]

and the flight they were on was also 815

[@NeilTalks]

What kind of weak-ass commenter do you think I am, Ponyboy? ;) Watch my postscript and you'd know I know this. :)

[@evilvolts]

@@NeilTalks yeah I noticed that later but I have the type of memory that I will lose the train of thought so when you first mentioned the safe number I posted the comment rather than later when you addressed it in post comments.

[@kengascoigne5946]

18:34 anyone else getting voice to video delays?

[@NeilTalks]

I'm hoping it was just you, Ken... Not you personally... You know what I mean... I hope. :)

[@ComeOnIsSuchAJoy]

People generally seem to consider this the weakest episode of this first season, from what I've gathered from other reaction videos. The next Kate flashback will be the payoff for this one.

[@NeilTalks]

That just demonstrates the overall strength of the series. Because this one comes in as maybe an 8/10, and it's considered one of the 'weakest'.

[@vorbis4860]

I dunno, I thought The Moth was weaker. It seemed the obligatory "This character is kinda useless, so let's make him useful for an episode, and then we never have to do that again" episode that most series have.

[@ComeOnIsSuchAJoy]

@@vorbis4860 Of course, I'm not speaking on my behalf, just the general consensus from others that I've gotten. I'm more inclined to go with "Homecoming," mostly because I feel it has the most filler-y flashback of the season.

[@kengascoigne5946]

19:17 It's fixed

[@NeilTalks]

oh good.

[@TJMalana]

This is one episode I can say I’m not really a fan of. The only interesting part of the episode was Kate’s flashbacks. Otherwise a total filler episode.

[@NeilTalks]

I think this was one of the few episodes where the flashbacks were given more priority than the happenings on the island. They were certainly more revealing.

[@cynthiaschultheis1660]

Jesus!!! Quit yakking!!!!