DMP #41 - The Pain of Spiritual Awakening!

Damo Mitchell doing a late night podcast on the idea that 'a spiritual awakening is a painful and chaotic process'.
Damo explores this idea and explains why he doesn't see this as an accurate statement as the suffering is unrelated to the awakening process itself. He also looks at the nature of suffering when on the internal path, the nature of 'going inside' as well as a common form of Qi deviation which is similar to a psychotic break.
This was recorded in the middle of the night in a hotel and so apologise for the picture quality.
#damomitchell #spiritualawakening #qideviation
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[@hmbg792]

Timestamps: 0:00 - Nonsuffering is the beginning 4:36 - Why people start (and quit) Internal Arts 7:43 - Spiritual teachers moving goalposts 9:18 - Meditative black belt analogy 15:39- Inside vs outside, Zhuangzi's butterfly 21:35 - Bliss 31:24 - Discomfort because you're outside 36:00 - Shadow work and Psychology vs going inside 43:48 - Qi deviation, mental illness, America 52:48 - Qi deviation solutions 1:04:00 - All good things come to an end

[@LotusNeiGong]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@reforgedsword]

This is crucial and very helpful information. And I think very clearly transported, with a humorous retorik. It has the potential, to help a lot of people. Thank You for taking the effort!

[@Zhou-Bo-Tong]

Appreciate this. How people respond to the butterfly analogy is quite a litmus test.

[@Norbu421]

Yep! It is like that. Very heartening to listen to you. With much gratitude! Keep very well indeed!

[@AlexanderSamarth]

I appreciated this video and I thought to mention that many of the big names in the west speaking on the topic come from a Zen background (I'm thinking Adyashanti for example, also Angelo DiLullo) and they are using the term Awakening specifically to refer to what Zen calls Kensho. Kensho is not an experience, and it is not a mental skill, but is rather defined as the first shift in identity. It can happen in meditation, or randomly, but it often happens as a result of self inquiry, such as "who am I?" Basically the person breaks out of conceptual identification, permanently. When this happens, the person will experience a kind of freedom, great reduction in suffering, clarity, bliss, and which lasts for a few weeks to a few months, before it fades and one needs to do actual work to get back there. This feels similar to what you describe as being in a permanent bliss state, except it's not going to last. It's often described as "unbound consciousness", or the "I am stage" or experiencing pure beingness, etc. It's not some high achievement for sure, but it puts one in a better position to proceed on the path. I've experienced this and have spoken to others who have as well. I don't know if this has a name in Daoism or Theravada. I do wish I had known before about this, because I could have worked towards it 10-20 years ago and it would have made such a massive difference, but unfortunately I had never heard of this in traditions and systems I was familiar with. Most other training it relatively fruitless before this shift as far as I can tell.

[@wesleysullivan8047]

really enjoy your talks. please continue the Jet-Lagged Talks !

[@mystictheninja1486]

really appreciate this talk. It's given a direction in my spiritual quest where I feel has been lacking for a long time ❤

[@mystictheninja1486]

I have done my own version of this end suffering, spiritual awakening, but it was through my own random ways, so without any structure I found myself beyond most suffering and then became lost. I'm still lost lol. I had those bliss moments after meditating where I felt that love is the substance of the universe and that I can understand everything through love, and thoughts couldn't exist in that state, and my senses were dialed up to 400% etc (I don't do drugs). But since there was no structured spiritual path, I have no idea what to do from here. Without the suffering, there's no goal. The reason I was doing it, as you said, was because of mental and physical suffering (chronic IBS which is unbelievably painful), but with these things sorted for the great majority, I still want to ascend to higher states of consciousness, I want to become enlightened, I want to continue but I don't know how or where to go so I've just been drifting, being present, but present with the mundane things doesn't give any vision of anything upwards and expansive or fulfilling. I joined IAA hoping to at least touch something mysterious in a structured way so that, if nothing else, I'd have something to work on that isn't just physical so that maybe I'd get a door opened towards something greater. How do you start legitimately studying buddhism or something like that? I just see random quotes here and there and hundreds of random books about this or that interpretation. How do you follow or find a structured path that leads somewhere/here/nowhere (however you want to say it)?

[@cheeseanonionsnow9761]

Be sorry to see you finish, found your videos to be helpful .Hope you leave your content up.Thanks and good luck with your future projects.

[@riptiz]

Makes sense, I’ve felt this way and still do many times and I’ve been meditating since 1976 and nowhere near the end. But like you I’m happy 99% of the time and nobody needs a lot of money or possessions to attain this. Well explained Damo.

[@cal.5081]

Super helpful, thank you! As an American, and from my own personal experience, I can say your assessment is spot on. I wish more people would talk about this. And also what you said using that very effective black belt analogy, that needs to become common knowledge in all spiritual circles. Thanks for this 🙏 I'm glad you had jetlag ;)

[@Zhou-Bo-Tong]

Covid and birth of my first child resurfacing childhood trauma lead me into meditation which lead to to callestenics. Major life improvements. I feel untangled at this point so time to load myself more.

[@AR-qn9mq]

Also please continue... you are helping so many people.

[@SnakeAndTurtleQigong]

It’s quite surprising how early on in the spiritual journey suffering seems to end. As a kid, I remember my Buddhist teacher saying that ending suffering was the entire point of the meditation method. 💙🙏 May everyone take that first step, and bring more peace into the world!

[@Norbu421]

There are layers of suffering and layers of buying into it...perhaps best not to draw hasty conclusions...

[@Zhou-Bo-Tong]

Thinking about the apparent high energy of mentally unwell people. It's more turbulence in the energy flow than energy itself. There's no strong deliberate flow but just a chaotic scattering of energy.

[@intuitivesean443]

I just wanted to say thank you for your last video on sexual cultivation and the concise reasoning and dangers of sexual cultivation or in reality the lack of cultivation

[@MultiRockGamer]

Thenks for existing. Keep posting podcasts, becose they are the best of all, and keep existing forever.

[@Liukangfortrouble]

Your outsider view of America is spot on 👌 I remember in 1st grade drawing myself as the president of the United States. I was even in GATE (gifted and talented education) and AP (advanced placement) classes, making me think I WAS better than the rest. I’ve lived my entire life-maybe not trying to become president lol-but with very high standards for myself and never quite becoming “rare.” Finally I have freed myself from that, but I see most people around me trying to “one up” others around them.

[@DavidMerlaut]

Thank you for this choice of dedicating time to debunking those false spreading ideas. And your clarity on it. Very helpful

[@rationalityrules111]

This was really helpful. Really good, really unlocked something for me.

[@joshcohen5798]

This was a very useful video. You really do have a great talent for teaching. I’m sorry to hear that you may be thinking of giving it up.

[@LotusNeiGong]

Glad it was useful :) Teaching is something that should be done for a while and then, like most things in life, it should probably be let go of too 🙏🏻

[@andrewdavis5830]

Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts on these topics. I have found your videos incredibly helpful and valuable! Your other talks about the linear path, the different paths and how they relate, and foundational theory have all been so helpful. I am hoping to attend your courses at some point in the next couple years. I’m sure it is exhausting going through a 3 month teaching cycle, and I have also felt like I was done with a thing in the past, but after a break from it, I felt that I wanted to be involved again. Maybe if you were to slow the pace and take personal time between teaching phases you might still enjoy it? I’m really hoping to train with you in the future… But whatever you decide is best for you, I really appreciate what you have shared with us all and I wish you the best! 🙏🏻

[@jonaszkiepe]

Time to go outside and touch some grass🌵 Amazing podcast🙏

[@Kosta110]

Great idea besides the tennis

[@pronmoder7529]

Thanks you for this video, you are very clear. Dear Damo, please tell us about your experience with minerals and crystals, it seems that people are able to synthesize certain properties and structures of them within themselves

[@Mr3ller]

Thanks Damo. Great information

[@justinvinokur3909]

Great talk. The jet lag maybe cause a little 'drunken boxing' black belt happiness pondering over of whats hard to articulate hehe. The memory que I have been using as a way to bring my mind into reflecting on this is 'The sum of the parts do not equal the whole'. The body, psychee, and all parts they may contain cannot add up to 'inside'. 'Inside' being what interfaces with what is unconditional and not in any way shape or form any amount of configuration parts in any way shape or form, although being skillfull within harmonizing the outside parts and their conditional relations with one another is no trivial thing in pursuit of releasing them with integrity. All the best!

[@jamesm5192]

Did make a lot of sense. I've experienced both of the two fixes for qi deviations. And yes, #1 was way easier. #2 is almost prevented, as you say, because the correct practice to achieve it is usually either getting corrupted or not being done while one is deviated.

[@magpieqigong5163]

Thanks again Damo , fascinating and honestly frank as usual. Resonate with much of what you say. I used to cycle and swim to reset from contact highs of mental health clients . I think a big problem is that people are too human centred , more room for Nature will help with better external orientation, listen to the birds , watch the clouds , dig the garden . Much appreciated as always good fella ☯️🙏🙏🙏😊 I used to love ping pong does that count? 🤣

[@akuujutub]

These are very helpful. Good luck on your journey whatever it might become.

[@IronShaman]

Greetings from the Chicago area in North America. I humbly bow with great love and respect to Damo Mitchell as a Internal Arts Teacher. As recently being guided by great spirit to you today and coming across my path today... this video on Spiritual Awakening, I have actually experienced much of what Damo mentions here. It would be more than epic good to train with Damo Mitchell for five years and expand more if that is your choice. Cheers to all of us training in physical here. I have some insight about your situation , that I would be happy 2 share with you...would that be alright?

[@Kosta110]

If you really think that you've been guided by a great spirit to Damo then you need to play alot of tennis, mister.

[@milehigh61]

thanks for your candor Damo, its refreshing 🙏

[@andrewperryman8614]

Thank you very much for the video! This explains so much of what I went through in my younger years- chi deviation and creating the wrong feedback loop. If only I had known that then... :)

[@elisegillardallen1983]

It did make sense!! Common sense. Thank you for your time and experience.

[@tomashowlin]

Thank you! 🙏 This is cool. So I’m outside if I am in a world I created. What is then being inside? Inside where? Inside a world I did not create but that exists? Where is that?

[@LotusNeiGong]

In this context, ‘inside’ means further back than any form of construct :)

[@frankgrodzicki1436]

You light a candle in me, great....thanks man!

[@higherqi13]

Thoughts are outside. That is very helpful, thank you.👍

[@GamingLoadown101]

This was SUPER interesting thanks so much!

[@othmargwerder]

Thank you for your words!!!🙏😊

[@joaocunha5701]

Hello Damo. This video content is very good. The explanation you gave about the internalization of attention and the clear definition of what the outside is was brilliant. I must also raise a pertinent question. Will the outward movement at a certain point on the path of realization also be useful? At certain stages of attention mastery, the practitioner is able to absorb information and mirror the object of observation in their bodies or dimensions, getting to know it in more depth. Does the movement of our attention outward not also have its purpose?

[@Gongchime]

Good stuff.

[@walterreuther1779]

Love these thank you very much!

[@ivistaiji7644]

Some very good points...excellent clearing up. In my experience, this is a very good external practice/use in the internal arts. You need a slightly different kind of selfdefense in China than in the Balkans.

[@Taoist111]

Either that wallpaper goes or I do.

[@theunspeakable24]

This made lots of sense. I have experienced all of it., through many spirals over the years. You dont need to apologize, your talks are raw, valuable explorations and observations,. Brain feedback loops are like heavy metal music, 🤣 Your work here is very appreciated by at least me.

[@mercp3663]

I appreciate this video immensely. Thank you. I’m going to go play tennis.

[@codydance6742]

Very useful indeed! 🙏

[@Ninjaotaku]

Damo 49:54 Made me wonder, have you ever recorded a whole 1 h talk and then realize the camera didn't record?

[@LotusNeiGong]

All the bloody time 🤦‍♂️

[@spiritwarriorstudios]

To me, suffering is a mental symptom of attempting to avoid the unavoidable. One can actually become ensnared in suffering by attempting to eliminate it. LMAO. Embrace the creative conflict of Life and the Art of being ALIVE! Rejoice in it Aaaaall, man!!!

[@Orik_S]

Thank you for enduring the jet lag for the recording. Brilliant talk! If I may ask, do you think some people are more susceptible to the nervous system emulating their surrounding peers than others? Mainly asking about non-cultivators 🙏

[@opticalman6417]

to truly Awaken is to become sane in insane world and at first you feel crazy but really your just waking up and people who are fast asleep don't help matters they just think your crazy because you start to behavior differently and there not at the level your currently at.

[@Foma_Stuppa]

What kind of "hotel" are you staying at with a painting like THAT on the wall!?!?!?!

[@LotusNeiGong]

Ha! Yeah, it’s an odd one. It’s a photo of a woman in moulin rouge outfit playing cards on a carpet. Hotel art is often quite strange :)

[@trump9075]

Also, interesting perspective in general. Haven’t thought of the internal/external distinction like that before, though on some level I sensed it by observing how neurotic obsessive self-development could end up been; you think you're going "in" but you aren't. You're going into a mental space that's "synthetically" created to give you the sensation of going in. Quite masturbatory 😂

[@juang4618]

To be able to distinguish between awakening and improving the "dream" is very key to growth.

[@davidvanderlecq6218]

This may be a strange question but is it possible to be inside on the outside? Like just seeing stuff happening, people, thoughts, things coming to life, just attention somehow merging with all of it and recognizing the good in it. What would that be?

[@Le_Kinho]

Damo can you please clarify what you mean by “inside”? What is the correlate in Buddhism? Are we talking Jhana? Nirodha samapatti? Just curious to know what you’re referring to in this video.

[@liver.flush.maestro]

It did make sense, thank you 🙂

[@kenbaggs2075]

Hi Damo. I dont think I ever fell victim to one of the mind delusions. I just practiced sitting (or standing) and allowed the mind to go quiet. It was difficult but I didn manage to go for upto an hour of no-thought. Nothing magical happened but it was refreshing for the mind that no energy goes into any thought. Shouls something happen or is no-thought just a pre-requisite for some alchemical practice that is sect specific?

[@arlar369]

Would love to hear you discuss how what you are sharing relates to the four noble truths and the 'stage's of insight' as taught in Theravada Buddhism, from Sotāpanna to Arhat.

[@arlar369]

Also how 'going inside' relates to jhāna practices vs insight practices. And.. perhaps also comment on teachings that point to transcending dualistic notions such as inside/outside or the notion of a separate self entity/meditator and path altogether! Thank you 😊

[@LotusNeiGong]

Would be too controversial 😂 my views on Buddhism are best not shared as Buddhist often so precious about all this stuff!

[@arlar369]

@@LotusNeiGong I would argue that controversial content can be the most useful(unless it's just wild speculations or delusional ideas). Understandable if you don't want to take the heat from expressing opinions that may be counter to the 'norm' however 😋.

[@juang4618]

@@LotusNeiGong My limited experience indicates to me that your work with Qi is complementary to a Buddhist practice. The Buddha himself said just cultivating unwavering attention on the breath is enough to gain freedom. The other paths and traditions surrounding Buddhism perhaps is a way, but I think very much a less direct path. However, that is sometimes the most some can do.

[@Orik_S]

I found your podcast with Dr. Asa Hershoff to be eye opening and extremely interesting. Sides of Tibetan Buddhism that I've never heard mentioned by people who actually went deep in the teachings. 👍

[@juang4618]

Your view of Americans is pretty accurate. No culture identifies more with the need to achieve in order to be ok , with the complete disregard for balance, especially internally. Doing is a must and the measure of success is found in rampant materialism. There are signs of this changing, however.

[@Oddball_Obscurity]

What advice would you give to someone who's been subjected to freemason ritual abuse pretty much their whole life(age 38). Just connected the dots 6 months ago & saw the forest for the trees. Very real ptsd & Stockholm syndrome, but also very real fortitude & resilience as well. I've practiced amalgamation of chi kung & excercise sine around 2008 pretty steadily(not real chi kung I've recently learned from you haha). I've been wanting to learn real qigong/nei gong since i came across your name. I look up to you a lot..Would you recommend learning or no? Thank you 🙏

[@נאדר-ש4ז]

Thank you it helped me a ittle, I tried to reach you on the Yi jin jing video and your not responding.

[@tonydare7614]

As the great masters say, life is suffering and the root of suffering is preferences (desire/aversion) and the way to stop suffering is to experience each moment without the intrusion of the mind. Almost all come to practise because there is some suffering. Every moment live gives us is our practice. A formal time set aside for yoga/qi gong, meditation etc. is helpful but useless if we don't bring it into our everyday life.

[@matt_iles]

Fascinating

[@observantobservo]

Could you make a video on psychedelics particularly 5-MeO-DMT as it’s commonly used to aid in awakening by helping lower the mental barriers and opening the mind.

[@LotusNeiGong]

No point in me making this video as I don't believe it assists at all in awakening :)

[@observantobservo]

@@LotusNeiGongGotcha. Maybe a video explaining the misconceptions about it and why you don’t believe it assist’s in awakening?

[@kellycrofts-johnson7285]

Is there still awareness of Qi while inside?

[@bubinot]

Thank you! I'm going to play tenis😂❤

[@AR-qn9mq]

What is the green light thing on the settee / couch? Bottom right corner of the screen

[@IrinaAntonova]

How do you think from your experience, what is the relation between that what is found on the inside and the qi?

[@anderspeterandersen1143]

It would be great if everyone was in a state where they could handle the truth. And then live a wu wei kind of live😉 style.

[@auskadi]

I met one guy in Bali who wanted to find the fastest track to awakening. He would do anything to do that. Very strange I thought

[@juang4618]

"wanting" is the greatest obstacle to peace. One has to want to be free and intend to be free, then up to the point of realizing freedom, wanting has to be dropped. There are many paradoxes in this game due to the fact that god consciousness isn't a linear phenomena.

[@9EtherSupremeFist]

Would that discomfort/pain/disturbance in life that initially drives one towards the spiritual arts also be called the dark night of the soul? How would you define the dark night of the soul?

[@LotusNeiGong]

I don’t know because the meaning of the phrase has changed so much from its original Christian meaning. Everybody defines it differently and thus it is kind of vague to me :)

[@9EtherSupremeFist]

​@@LotusNeiGong thanks for feedback 👍🏿

[@sandrasakurasatori1560]

I have enjoyed this very much ..... deep Gratitude to your jet lag rumble although I wish you get over it soon deep Gratitude to be part of the LNG Academy, I wish I had found you earlier and not now that you are announcing your retirement from teaching Love,Respect & Gratefulness to you 🙏✨

[@trump9075]

I wonder where that fits in the context of buddhism and shedding the fetters. Seems that "nirvana" for buddhists would be not suffering by means of realizing the nature of noself (to the extent that noself is an accurate observation- not convinced it is 😅)

[@LotusNeiGong]

I view much of Buddhism as having been misinterpreted quite badly in modern times :)

[@trump9075]

@LotusNeiGong Maybe it'd be worthwhile to expand on this idea! It's becoming increasingly popular and often taking the mantle of the "secular religion" and I'd imagine it's creating all sorts of issues with people following that mainstream view. Even if it means angering a bunch of people... after all, what are they going to do? Chant you away? 🤣 Alas, your time, your choice!

[@LotusNeiGong]

Ha ha - true. Maybe one day I will enter into that battle?! 😂

[@dentkort]

​@@LotusNeiGongPlease give it a thought! The insight from someone that actually lives in the East where these practices are commonplace in their ancestral forms is invaluable.

[@zerocrutch]

First off that hotel room is AMAZING. Secondly if you want to be president of America it’s a skull and bones club ;)

[@SomeGuy-xf9bc]

I think what most people mean by awakening is simply realizing that this world is run by people who don't have our best interests at heart and that we have been lied to about many historical facts. On the surface, it might seem like that is spiritual in nature but I don't think it necessarily is. Realizing you have been living in error is a first step, but it only points to the need to dig deeper.

[@LotusNeiGong]

Ah yes, this is the worst definition of the term awakening and sadly common in the alternative scene 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@supremeknowing]

Man wtf ar you even saying!? This this not even resemble the slighted touch of awakening. Awakening in spiritual context is about consiousness and moving towards state of joy and eternal life.

[@hvxjim1]

Would this include kundalini awakening?

[@LotusNeiGong]

In what context?

[@noself7889]

Once you lay the mental foundation then the real work starts. overcoming the habit energy, getting rid of anger, , lust, greed, delusions, sensuality, hatred, fear, and egocentrism. This is where right view and insight come in with daily living. The practice of virtue, honesty, generosity, compassion, kindness, etc,this latter part can take decades to master. Once the foundation of virtue has been laid, and the fetters dropped, that is where the spiritual attainments start. Amongst other things one will end up celibate as part of the path. Buddha said sensual lust was the hardest fetter for him to overcome and he said as a Buddha there were many things he could not do, killing, lying, etc, and sensual union was one the things a Buddha is incapable of doing. Once the passions and lust is quelled, inter coarse is also done away with.

[@juang4618]

@@noself7889 Not true. Eliminating the desire or aversion to sex is what is necessary. The act is just another phenomena to fully engage in, not unlike eating. The physical processes are obviously different, but it is still just part of life on this plane of existence.

[@hvxjim1]

@@LotusNeiGong in the sense that people have emotional problems, I've heard of people having to be committed to a hospital for 48 hour psych hold, losing their jobs because they couldn't function, etc.

[@hvxjim1]

@@noself7889 thank you for your response.

[@fractalofgod6324]

I am my suffering, why would i want to avoid it.

[@LotusNeiGong]

Nobody advocating for avoiding anything 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@fractalofgod6324]

@@LotusNeiGong I didn't say anyone was, merely stating my position.👍🙏

[@LotusNeiGong]

Okay :)

[@fractalofgod6324]

@@LotusNeiGong nothing but love.

[@healerinthesky8197]

Why build energy just to experience contentment?

[@LotusNeiGong]

The contentment is not the aim, it’s a by product 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@healerinthesky8197]

@@LotusNeiGong important point, but not the aim of the question, a by product

[@LotusNeiGong]

🤷🏼‍♂️

[@healerinthesky8197]

@@LotusNeiGong Yes, who cares, really

[@xHiiTMalRk3rzx]

Do you believe in Jesus ?

[@LotusNeiGong]

Believe in his existence you mean? Yes. Believe in the teachings of the organised Christian churches? Nope

[@xHiiTMalRk3rzx]

@@LotusNeiGong spiritual enlightenment and Eternal Life in Heaven are different would you agree or disagree

[@pesterian]

Thinking that the truly awakened can't take antidepressants or have physical ailments is wrong. It portrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the spiritual path.

[@LotusNeiGong]

I don’t say they can’t have physical ailments, I am simply saying that the truly awakened would not be bothered or affected by them. In the same manner, if they require anti-depressants, they are also still affected by the mind and, as such, not truly awakened. I feel it is yourself that may have been hoodwinked into believing truly awakened is a much more basic state than it is. There are very few on this earth who have attained this state and instead many who claim such a state whilst, maybe, being on anti depressants and pain killers 🤔

[@pesterian]

@LotusNeiGong My good sir, I am very much awake and on antidepressants. I'm more than willing to speak with you directly if you'd like to understand my perspective as it's rather unique. I had a spontaneous awakening in November of last year, had no idea what happened, and slowly pieced it together. You're attributing mythology surrounding awakening as fact, we are not magic we are human. If you'd like to know more reach out.

[@dentkort]

​@@pesterianCope.

[@pesterian]

@dentkort2046 Improving your posture will help with the issue you're experiencing. Good luck! Don't forget to put on your crown.

[@dentkort]

@@pesterian Take your meds

[@Seaileanu]

Ten Questions to Consider: 1. What does Damo suggest as a potential remedy for individuals experiencing chi deviation? 2. How does Damo define "outside" in the context of internal arts? 3. What three "outside worlds" does Damo identify as preventing us from being truly "inside"? 4. Damo mentions two common characteristics shared by individuals experiencing chi deviation and those experiencing mental health issues. What are they? 5. According to Damo, what is the primary difference between a genuine internal experience and mistaking external psychological exploration for inner peace? 6. How does Damo use the analogy of a black belt in martial arts to illustrate the concept of "awakening"? 7. Why does Damo believe it's crucial to not always aim for peace or bliss in internal practices? 8. What is Damo's criticism of "shadow work" in the context of internal work? 9. Damo mentions an example from his time working in a psychiatric ward. How is this relevant to the discussion of chi deviation? 10. In Damo's opinion, what are the potential dangers of misinterpreting internal sensations and thoughts?