Love Has Won Updates

[@bec7080]

I just want to say that Robin Williams didn't deserve this

[@o.mcneely4424]

“Robin Williams would be disappointed in you” is a pretty good insult.

[@infoskrimp420]

seriously! TAKE IT BACK JEN

[@lisagilleland4977]

😅😅❤

[@JDMimeTHEFIRST]

I mean, it was her one enjoyable funny conspiracy theory😅. I’d love to speak with Robin Williams as well.

[@bec7080]

@@JDMimeTHEFIRST It was until she said he was saying the bad things he agreed with. If she was just seeing him that would be fine cause I would actually believe it. Robin Williams was there to tell her to chill out.

[@taylorg2320]

"My vision was chicken parmesan" will never not be the funniest thing I've ever heard in my entire life

[@amandametcalf8367]

❤

[@Bibliomaniac14]

“I love meatballs” is also so funny

[@ArmchairHistorian]

I don't blame her... the starvation and drinking must've given her some killer cravings 😅

[@SeptemberKing-x1f]

I think the funniest moment is when El Moyra says “I have made mother he worst quesadilla in all of creation”

[@504CreoleCrystal]

I swear 😂😂😂😂

[@CwoffeSwupweme]

"she could consume copious alcohol and not show the effects" ???? she sounds CONSTANTLY drunk

[@JudeDragon158]

If they constantly sound drunk then clearly it doesn’t effect her 🤔 /s

[@SjofnBM1989]

They probably just NEVER saw her actually sober so they didn't know what he baseline was. Like "Oh it never effects her" actually translates to "She's always like this and I don't know any different."

[@earthaforester3141]

If someone is screaming at you for tequila, they're an alcoholic. Idk how these people didn't pick up on that.

[@vanessak69]

They are SO close to seeing things sometimes. “It looks like to the untrained eye that she’s napping but….” “It looks like she’s drinking but it’s medicine. She’s doesn’t get drunk.” She’s an abusive drunk who’s has passed out and btw, you guys are killing her but when she’s crazy and you’re crazy whose fault is it? Everyone, no one, Robin Williams?

[@Nick-tj9cr]

@@vanessak69 that line about the untrained eye... that one broke my brain. it's right there! It's so obvious! Normally I can empathize with cult members because it can happen to anyone, but this cult is just so blatantly stupid.

[@lillianward2810]

My rule of thumb: if the leader of a group asks you to call them Mom/Dad, it’s probably a cult.

[@apathybronson]

Oh no don't tell my kids

[@rachelw1076]

😂 ​@@apathybronson

[@kellyradtke4885]

I've never had to instruct my literal children to call me mom 😂 if I start asking full grown, unrelated adults to do so, let them know I'm starting a cult.

[@dash-x]

@@apathybronsonwhen I was little I called my Ma , “mommy dearest” once, and only once😹 She did have a weird hang up against wire hangers though.

[@celineypie]

And if someone calls themselves god, it is DEFINITELY a cult.

[@averyjeanne]

Robin William’s estate should sue these people for defamation. Attributing these horrific behaviors to him is awful. I couldn’t imagine being one of his family members and seeing these things.

[@Maialeen]

Why would they get down in the dirt with these people? What could they even gain from them? No sane person would ever believe them nor should the family bring more attention to this.

[@literallyallthingsonice]

The day a batshit movement like this actually gains traction beyond a handful of pitiful, abused and malnourished people, maybe action would be worthwhile, but that’s not happening.

[@SjofnBM1989]

To win a defamation case you have to prove the people are intentionally and maliciously lying. These people BELIEVE it's the truth, they're delusional.

[@timewarpblackhole]

I totally get you but I don't even think it's worth it. I don't want his widow and his kids to have to deal with these cretins

[@HelloNewMoon]

Sue them for what money? They were all strung out mentally ill semi homeless folks

[@aerynventress7702]

The nerve of those cult members to paint the native people of Hawaii as aggressors for defending themselves and their heritage. 😡😵‍💫

[@themudpit621]

Sure, defend away, they were aggressive though, they sure messed up that car. I wonder why they were allowed to do that, and yet the people in colorado had to sleep in shifts.

[@dee6249]

"This is our country," I always thought it was a state?! lol

[@geekcollage]

​@@dee6249Hawaii was a sovereign nation before being stolen and forcibly annexed by white American businessmen. The rightful Hawaiian monarchs were actively sending diplomatic missions around the world to resolve it for years before the take over. The resentment is still there and they are *extremely* protective of their culture and lands. It's a thing.

[@espeon871]

@@geekcollage also these lands r very spiritually meaningful, to have these unhinged losers run around to spread their unhinged cult must be horrible for some

[@Trenton.D]

They are governed by the laws of this land. I’ll say what very I want about their fake gods just like I will say whatever I want about anyone else’s god or gods. THAT is the FIRST law of the land: freedom of speech.

[@chc6644]

“Alcohol never seemed to effect her” That’s alcoholism. That means you’ve never seen her not drunk or on something.

[@Onyx421]

Maybe her believing that she was God was the alcohol affecting her 💀

[@samanthawright7053]

Um… the alcohol was definitely affecting her

[@sunshine3914]

@@samanthawright7053Yes, but it had become her normal state. I’ve known many. One gal just blew 0.3, tiny thing, everyone commenting that “couldn’t be right, she wasn’t even slurring her words”… well, I’ve known two who blew 0.4 , & one was a foreman for 23 years, & if he was awake, he had an alcoholic beverage near. No one knew him otherwise.

[@justadragonryu]

When you’re getting yelled at by a drunk/high lady about chicken parm in a hotel room, the fantasy is over babe.

[@applejellypucci]

Drunk/high blue* lady

[@friedkiko]

they lost the brain power for thag a long time ago their eyes are empty you can tell there’s sumn wrong up there

[@NewFalconerRecords]

CHICKEN PARMAGANN!!!!

[@Onyx421]

​@@NewFalconerRecords GOD DAMN FM

[@Phil-tn5ny]

@@applejellypucci I'm s cared, I took a bottle of that collodial blue bullshyt knowing it was bullshyt, but I had the best most spiritual talk with the guy at the health food store and he recommended it so I gave it a shot because that interaction was so cool to me. Am I gonna have health effects? This was like... 8 years ago.

[@fruithippie]

I lost a friend to this cult. That's her at 13:41, "it doesn't matter, what's in a name?" Her name is Erin Bartlett and she abandoned her 4 kids to join this cult in Hawaii.

[@earthaforester3141]

❤

[@mkb7013]

Wow! I’m so sorry for your loss and for hers (her mind).

[@M1995C]

The kids thing is so crazy...that made me so sad in the doco

[@angiebams123]

Yikes. I’m glad you’re smarter than she is. ❤️

[@KTempestBradford]

oh shit, I'm sorry to hear that! The end of the BO doc says she back with her kids now. I hope that's true. Is she healing and moving on or is she one of the ones still doing the cult stuff online?

[@spacecat7864]

The Hawaiians have had enough hippies on power trips and their followers up in their business to see it immediately and just be like nopeee absolutely not. Respect that move for sure.

[@justkiddin84]

Lori and Chad. And it seems like LDS folks are there way too much also. It’s actually annoying-I would love to visit, but it’s too expensive.

[@spacecat7864]

@@justkiddin84 it’s been going on forever. I can’t remember specifics but I got really into cult documentaries a few years ago and “tries to move to Hawaii” is a pretty common step in the cult progression since like the 60s.

[@chocomelo454]

​@@justkiddin84even if it wasn't I suggest you don't, locals have been begging for people to stop coming to Hawaii because it encourages the ongoing genocide being done to them by the US government. Which is just so fucking depressing. There shouldn't even need to be a question of "if I travel here will someone be exploited" yet there is.

[@jinxie8]

It’s insane how totally different she looks before Love Has Won. A totally different person. Her voice was so comforting and soothing.

[@angelsnaiilz]

i agree :(

[@TrueEnergizerBunnies]

Its sad what mental illness does as well as the cocktails of toxic things she was drinking every day.

[@HeyitsBri_]

Extreme gluttony and substance abuse will do that to you

[@nunpho]

​@@HeyitsBri_it was the opposite of gluttony

[@FelisImpurrator]

​@@HeyitsBri_Gluttony? It's a self-starvation cult. This is actually what happens when people orient their lives around inflicting punishment for "self-indulgent" behavior.

[@aliecookie10]

Her calling herself "White Buffalo Calf Woman" and "Pele" is not only offensive on the basis of cultural appropriation, but to me it also speaks to the wider appropriation of Indigenous and Eastern spiritual practices within new age circles. White Buffalo Calf Woman was a Lakota prophet that brought the seven sacred teachings some 2000 years ago; her prophecy is deeply sacred and foundational to many Indigenous nations. This name is sometimes given to important women within different nations to signify their importance or contributions to the community, but it is not for people outside of our nations to use. Similarly to the goddess Pele, her name is often appropriated in new age circles as a way to identify leaders without acknowledging the actual practices and beliefs of those nations. I am eternally frustrated by new age movements that appropriate Indigenous beliefs and customs (i.e. dream catchers, ayahuasca, sage and copal burning, headresses, the list goes on forever). They take what they find aesthetically pleasing and ignore the centuries of colonial and imperial trauma. They want to look like us, but they don't want our history or to even acknowledge where those practices come from. Cults like this show the worst outcomes of this, using practices they don't understand and ultimately ending up killing people in the process. If you want to engage in these practices, you have a responsibility to ensure you are doing it in a way that supports the communities who developed them. Support Indigenous artisans and farmers, support Indigenous sovereignty, and make damn well sure you are showing respect to the people who have continually faced colonial theft of their cultural beliefs and practices. P.S. Jen, the yellow eyeshadow is amazing

[@BlisaBLisa]

to be fair i think she is just a particularly hateful delusional bigot lmao, but yea new age stuff is weird. i think most of the new age shit people here (US) believe in came from asia but there is definetly some indigenous stuff in the mix, ig bc of this idea that native americans are mystical and in touch with nature. the use of natives spirituality feels kind of shittier than the use of various asian beliefs, cuz they are living among these people and benefiting from them while native americans live in significantly worse conditions than them.

[@pnwlady]

I love it how the Hawaiian people responded to her nonsense about being their goddess. Full on ‘get off our island’.

[@amandahealey2216]

@@pnwlady "Who started this?" "PELE!" That police interaction will never not be funny...

[@KTempestBradford]

just.... all this. White New Age culture is nothing but appropriative and destructive. Amy is on the farther end of the spectrum than most, but that far end isn't THAT far from the middle, which is bad enough.

[@KTempestBradford]

@@amandahealey2216 right? Even the cops were like: You gotta go. We will escort you.

[@Akursedtime]

Although I don't condone harassment. I have to admire the Hawaiians for standing firm because the whole new age thing is bs.

[@o.mcneely4424]

According to the Ask a Mortician video (made soon after Carlson’s body was found), when the cops asked who kept setting small fires around LHW’s rental house in Hawai’i, the locals would casually shout “Pele!” 🤣

[@Akursedtime]

​@@o.mcneely4424omg that's even better 😂😂

[@BlisaBLisa]

i wouldnt call it harassment, more like self defense lmao

[@deanpope2055]

It’s a little more than new age bs if the whole island has heard of you and knows that you’re pretending to be an indigenous god, she must’ve been causing a SCENE over there

[@imjustaturtle641]

@@BlisaBLisa100% agree it’s self defense

[@egregious3666]

I love it when people say "she could consume copious alcohol and not show the effects".😂 My last night of drinking, my BAC was .25, tested by the post Military Police. They were amazed. I was completely coherent and on point. Years of practice and high tolerance is the key. She is mentally compromised and alcohol will exacerbate her problems and she will still be herself.

[@valolafson6035]

I 100% believe your story about building an alcohol tolerance, and being coherent. But this lady was not coherent. She was clearly on a lot of things.

[@catmomchantel]

Their belief of what counted as "coherent" and "not showing the effects" was absolutely wild to me watching the documentary because that woman was clearly plastered, rambling, and unwell 24/7. The difference from when she first started her live streams to her later state of constant drunkenness was extremely stark.

[@laujazmina]

Maybe it triggered the early dementia.

[@celestegrey]

Also to add the effects may not have been showing on the outside at the time but it’s clear seeing how she looked towards the end and after she died that her liver and kidneys were completely destroyed. If what was said in the documentary about her substance abuse was true I’m surprised she lived as long as she did.

[@SpaceManRD]

​@@celestegrey Some people are just... weirdly durable. Good genes and no disposition toward related illnesses, I suppose, on top of dumb luck-same as the people who chain smoke cigars and eat like shit and still live into their 90s.

[@caitlynwinkler4189]

I really liked the documentary but I felt like it seriously glossed over the racism and antisemitism of the group, as well as the child abuse. I had wondered what happened to those three little kids that woman brought with her. It’s horrifying to think they were in a home with all those people abusing drugs.

[@mkb7013]

You’re right. It did.

[@uwusions]

I think she mentioned in the documentary that they were taken in by their grandparents.

[@crissy4445]

I think it's really difficult when intertwined with mental health issues this complex cause a lot of the time there's no consistent meaning or motivation behind the hate speech they're just parroting slurs and buzzwords that stirred something in them emotionally, like how they swear so much, being as offensive as possible is the most reactive, emotion-inducing thing they can do but if anyone without mental health issues listened its just 'slurs like to tell you they eat, well they don't! We all eat every race every religion but not the slurs, because we are not all equal, we are just the SAME' shit like that and at the root of it all there's no discernible meaning to make light of and condemn. Plus with children there's privacy issues

[@KTempestBradford]

I think that woman's children were gone by then? But it's unclear. I was also curious as to why the doc didn't go deep in on some aspects of the cult. After watching it a few times and reading some of the interviews with the director, I now see that she was never trying to make a documentary exposing or explaining everything. She was particularly interested in the people and how they got there. I think we're going to have to wait for a more True Crime-minded documentarian to tackle this to get something that really goes deep. Especially into the aspects that the cult members wouldn't have admitted to, like leaving that one guy to die in the desert.

[@TheBboySpooky]

Yeah they really only mentioned it almost off-hand in the first episode and then didn't touch on those beliefs at all. Fwiw, in an interview with Variety the director said that she left it out because she didn't want to platform those ideas and that she was more interested in showing empathy for the members, which I can understand but I'm not really sure if I agree with that approach. Of course, without that the members may not have agreed to be interviewed at all.

[@Mellypepper]

The irony that Amy demanded to never be taken to a hospital and then when she actually got sick and asked to be taken to a hospital her cult wouldn't take her.

[@xibalbalon8668]

Deserved, with how she brainwashed them. She definitely wouldn't have taken anyone else to the hospital

[@WelfareChrist]

I honestly never get tired of cult documentaries. That feedback loop that forms between a narcissist and a group of codependent people which fundamentally constitutes a cult is just so fascinating.

[@Cheri..]

Same here, never disappoints

[@Gloomdrake]

@@Cheri..though sometimes I wish it would

[@Sarah-re7cg]

Right? Cult documentaries and documentaries on just high control groups in general

[@Cheri..]

@Gloomdrake True..

[@alexsmith319]

True crime and serial killers aren't my thing, but cults? Sign me up.

[@lilalipa8042]

Amy was a vile horrible person who has caused lifelong damage to these people. That being said, the fact that she repeatedly asked to go to the hospital and they ignored her made me sad. It’s essentially her fault because of her “teachings” but damn, for some time there, she wanted to get treatment and live. She basically caused her own death

[@sweetlorikeet]

Shades of Father Yod... he died in pain because he taught his followers that doctors were evil.

[@emilybarclay8831]

Frankly it’s the fate she both fully deserved and specifically earned through her actions. When you convince a bunch of vulnerable mentally ill people that you’re a god and use that to abuse them, I ain’t gonna feel bad when they refuse you medical care. Because you’re a god, aren’t you? Gods don’t need the hospital

[@karenbozwell252]

It is the ultimate irony...

[@tellmeofyourhomeworldusul6060]

Oh well is what I say, you play dumb games and you get dumb prizes.

[@summersys]

The leopards ate her face

[@mindyowens6676]

As someone who goes to Burning Man, she would not be queen of Burning Man. There is only one queen at the Burn, and that's the company that cleans the portos

[@o.mcneely4424]

They deserve sainthood 🤣

[@ashleyleckwold5091]

I did regional burns in Georgia for a few years and they people who cleaned the portos there also deserve royal status

[@kristyhughes3146]

Maybe someone should set up a tip jar for them?

[@steviebeevie]

​@@kristyhughes3146 you never leave unattended money at a festival 😂 some white dude with moldy locs named Trent is gonna snag it for a Phish hoodie

[@lilpeasad]

“my vision was chicken parmesan” was one of the most coherent things she said

[@HelloNewMoon]

Imagine someone promised you chick parm and didnt bring it 🤪

[@Onyx421]

Honestly same.

[@Froggele]

I feel horrible for her children. Not only did she abandon them, they have to deal with the fact that their mum being a cruel, racist, belligerent drunk is all over the internet. I hope that the family members they stayed with were good to them and kept them away from seeing this online as long as they could. I think I would never recover if I saw my mum like this and basically dying in front of my eyes on live-stream.

[@mkb7013]

You have to remember that she was a stranger to them. She left them at such a young age. I’m sure it’s very hard to see it knowing that she’s their biological mother, but there was probably never much of a bond between them.

[@Froggele]

@@mkb7013 I hope you are right😞

[@justkiddin84]

Really, they were better off-imagine a kid living with these horrible f’ed up people!

[@KTempestBradford]

I mean, there is a whole child that is not in this doc and is only mentioned as having been born. I suspect that's because she (I think they're a daughter?) is not handling all of this well and didn't want to talk about it, be mentioned, be known as Amy's daughter... the other two seem to have processed it more and come to some kind of terms.

[@Gildedmuse]

​@@KTempestBradfordI noticed that, too, but then Madison said in the doc that she was Amy's "only daughter". I'm not sure if that means that the other child was a boy (I thought it was said two girls and a boy) or if they left the family.

[@HolldollMcG]

That coroner seemed very sensitive and levelheaded, never judging them but also not sanitizing it or trying to download what went on. She was matter-of-fact while still holding space for their grief.

[@FrankieLeeH]

The coroner, Dr Russell, was so respectful and understanding, I really appreciate that she didn’t mock anyone or the situation.

[@Wiingashkikwe]

White Buffalo Calf Woman is sacred in Indigenous culture. I am Mi’kmaq not Lakota but her story is known to a lot of First Nations people.

[@kitneyspears]

It’s wild to me that people still believe in her teachings. Usually with fringe religious groups they experience a decline or completely dissolve after the figurehead passes…

[@historicallyapproximate]

She kind of built her death into the cult in a way that few others do. But also, its only been a short time and the cult abuse was really intense, and they're going to have the behaviours reinforced by the huge online following.

[@UsenameTakenWasTaken]

This is how all religions outlive their founders. It is the natural course of magical thinking.

[@piperarcher9706]

It might be the new mormonism!

[@lucidthomas4402]

People also tend to latch onto beliefs more if there was supposed to be some big event and then it doesn't happen. So the fact that aliens were supposed to get her and didn't, could've made people believe even more, as irrational as that sounds

[@DonnaLena1]

Look how the Mormons believed that Joseph Smith’s spirit was taken into the body of Brigham Young. Pretty crazy stuff!😂

[@marljusweety]

So fascinating, the lives some people live. I remember Caitlyn Doughty over on Ask A Mortician did an episode on this, debating whether it was legal for the group to do what they did to the remains/corpse. Learned a lot and would recommend both the channel and episode. And thanks to Jen for yet another great video! Glad I could be here for the premiere even if its 3.45 am where I live right now.

[@Alyssa_M513]

I love her channel! And her takes on issues.

[@jxn1056]

oooh! I ❤ her so much!!

[@Abby-jx1ko]

@@jxn1056you should watch the vid! Its not too long and its really interesting!

[@michaelasteele77]

I love her channel!

[@stviz87]

Me too! I saw Caitlyn's episode on her and then my MIL was watching Dr Phil the next week and I was like "Oh she died recently and they mummified her" so surreal

[@futuristic.handgun]

You're a better person than me Jen, because I just have no sympathy for that woman. And it's not because I don't understand mental illness or addiction, I do very much and I empathize deeply. But when I went down the rabbit hole of further reading into them and what happened after seeing a different video about them and being reminded of your first one, Amy just seemed in my approximation like an abusive, mean, racist, old drunk. Taking advantage of people, manipulating them, and on top of that spreading hate and racist conspiracy theories. I just can't, it's just hard for me to feel for any leader of these kinds of groups, even though I know mental illness and addiction played a big role, I'm not about to lay it all on that. Not saying that you are btw. I just can't find it in me to be sad for anyone but her children and her victims. 🤷

[@piapedersen]

Same.

[@jettopistoru]

Watching the documentary, I did feel some sympathy for her. I think she could have made a big turnaround earlier on if she had like 14-21 days in-patient treatment to get off all those substances and maybe get treated for some potential psychosis/schizophrenia. Hearing that she was asking to get medical treatment was really disturbing 😐 But was I not paying enough attention or did the doc just completely gloss over the racism stuff? I did not recall that at all...

[@AngryHalfBlkHottie]

@@jettopistoruthe documentary did show the racism and the antisemitism.

[@jettopistoru]

@AngryHalfBlkHottie That's wild. I was playing it in the background while painting, but I didn't think I missed out on that much lol... Maybe I should rewatch cause it's been living in my head rent free since I heard about it

[@badnames2169]

I think some people just repeat something so much that they actually begin to believe it themselves. I had an uncle like that. He was a drug addict and had a way of convincing other people of the most ridiculous things. I think when he could see that other people believed him he would start to believe his own lies. I truly think he convinced himself of most of his delusions. I don’t know if it was the substance abuse or if he was just his personality.

[@catmomchantel]

This documentary was really fascinating but honestly so stressful for me to watch. My mother is a spiritual hippie type who loves her colloidal silver and watching the documentary gave me this deep internal fear of "what if my mom had found and gotten into this stuff?" because, without getting too personal I honestly think it could have been possible. Luckily for my mom and her family, she thinks electronics are bad so the chances of her stumbling upon some cult on a youtube or facebook live stream were very slim.

[@LizStaples]

Small blessings then. I will say I use colloidal silver for neonatal kittens when they get booty rash (the list of topical ointments kittens in bottles can tolerate is pretty short) and it work good. It’s fine as a topical just no ingesting that is where danger lies.

[@zebraskin]

Same, except my aunt(s) from my father's side. One of my aunts died a few years back because she decided bee pollen was better than chemo. My other aunt still is in with that stuff and I could totally see her getting into something like love has won, or Q (which I really worry about as she says some questionable things). Also for the record they did grow up in a cult, and later after they were grown (and I was a child) my grandpa wanted to join heavens gate.... so I have a lot of reasons to worry 😅

[@justkiddin84]

@@LizStaplesit’s meant to be used topically, carefully-not ingested. ♥️✌️

[@ed8329]

Omg thank you for reminding me she was drinking the colloidal silver. Her grey skin tone in the videos from her final days was giving me shivers and making me scared to ever have another drink since I thought she died from that! So chilling how she looks.

[@Ben-nu4uj]

Hearing about Amy's life up to the point where she left her kids reminded me of my mom, and that clip of her singing also looks a lot like my mom did at around the same age, similar singing voice too... the morning after I watched the documentary I told her about it because it freaked me out a tad. She was also in some spiritual stuff but she's more conventionally Chrisitan nowadays.

[@C_H03219]

The thing that freaked me out the most in the hbo doc was when Amy was close to dying, and she said to one of her followers something along the lines of “what if I’m not god? What if I made it all up?” And the follower just took it as that wasn’t really her talking and wasn’t serious… what if some part of Amy was trying to finally come clean or finally understanding that this was all wrong. It’s sad to hear and think about. I am really happy though that the doc shows where a lot of the main members are today, most seem to have reunited with their families.

[@annjepsen1621]

God that's depressing.

[@mkb7013]

I feel like she was battling within herself about her “beliefs” and missing her own children but needed to stay completely numb with drugs and alcohol to make it (the convictions) go away.

[@mkb7013]

@@deakhanani God is all knowing. Even more so than you, if you can believe that. So, I’m sure God doesn’t like others making assumptions of God’s behalf. And if anyone or any thing is going to know how mentally ill she was, it would be God.

[@KeremcanBuyuktaskin]

They are united with their families, but as the documentary shows they still believe in all that bs and show no remorse. I'm not sure reuniting is a good thing if they are still like that, especially if they have children. Like that other lunatic follower who also abandoned her kids, probably they were better of with grandma.

[@KeremcanBuyuktaskin]

@@deakhanani There is no such thing as a god, grow up. Your beliefs are not so different than of those people.

[@colormevibrant815]

For anyone wanting to skip the animal ab*se section it starts at 39:11 and ends at 40:48

[@salameander42]

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@Treppy_Gecky]

I wish this was pinned up higher. Even blurred that bothered me.

[@katiebug_asmr]

Thank you

[@Orpheus422]

Thank you.

[@natalierose13]

I am REALLY excited for this. I just watched the HBO special and this woman is living rent free in my mind now and I hate it.

[@hawkwardfairy]

You are not alone in that!

[@maloucavallaro2698]

😂

[@FieryWench77]

Saaaame!

[@junebugx1312]

i binged it in one day and then made my partner watch it with me the next day after i sounded absolutely unhinged explaining everything to him 🤣😭 (i fell asleep two episodes in and he stayed up to watch the rest lmfao we make references all the time now)

[@Plutonium.2]

I was so excited and I missed it Wah Wah Wah

[@Itcouldbebunnies]

Amy: Doctors and hospitals are evil, stay away from them if you value your spiritual purity."😡 Amy, 5 years later: "I'm really sick, please take me to the hospital."🤢 Her followers: "We know you don't mean that. Don't worry, we'll take care of you."😇 Amy: "As the founder of the Leopard Eating Face Party, I must say I'm quite surprised to find that the leopards are now eating my face."😳

[@digitalartsi]

God, it's such an understatement that psychedelics can really mess people up. I'm glad you mentioned that. Even weed. I developed a serious panic disorder and paranoia after years of heavy use. I nearly went mad. It took me years to recover. I feel so sorry for these people.

[@michaelasteele77]

Totally agree, and I want to add since a lot of people don't know about this, regular weed use can increase the chances of bipolar and schizophrenia if someone's already genetically predisposed to have them. Some of my closest friends have bipolar and schizophrenia and we definitely think the weed made it worse.

[@lanagrowsup]

As someone who has used shrooms in the past and found immense help with them.. I refuse to use them in excess and also not for recreation. I would only use them alone or in a trusted space with a trip sitter I trusted. The veil is THIN and k wasn’t going to mess around. They are such a blessing and a healing mechanism but shouldn’t be used for “fun”. I see so many people using them now for recreation and I’m like alright.. keep fuckin around and you’re going to find out😳

[@pleh7019]

What defines heavy use? Like, at what point does consumption go from casual to heavy, and thus increase risk?

[@cherrygirl64]

Most do not believe that weed can lead to madness. Also, hallucinagens are being touted as medicine for mental ills these days too. Frightening.

[@digitalartsi]

@@pleh7019- For me it was every day all day for years. My therapist said heavy use is often used to describe crossing the threshold where your brain's chemistry no longer functions properly without a substance, but there's different degrees of heavy use, and everyone responds differently to it. It so happens that drug induced psychosis runs in my family.

[@Victoria-jd1dx]

What they were picking up on their scanner was the heat produced by the bacteria in her body 😩

[@juliestrickland7754]

This is SO off topic, but ever since you and James got married, you both have had a glow about you that is so awesome! Like it took you both to a whole new level of happiness. I know marriage does that, but it's something more with you guys. I don't know how to explain it. I just hope you guys are as happy as you look.

[@t.b.c.194]

Jen and James are my Roman Empire

[@juliestrickland7754]

@@t.b.c.194 if I understand this comment correctly, then yes. ,💯

[@Somebodysnoone553]

They do!!! I noticed too!❤

[@juliestrickland7754]

@@Somebodysnoone553 I'm glad someone else noticed and I'm not crazy. 😂😂😂

[@lovers807]

Her saying she saw herself being crucified on a mushroom trip makes me howl dude you cannot take those trips as fact I’ve had a friend cry over a dog that wasn’t even real it was a mailbox like they’re just your brain being wild

[@madelinedalziel4304]

I think the 5d people believe that what you see while high is the real world and the world you see when sober is the hallucination. 😛

[@MoonShadow333]

Sad story indeed. At some point Amy became a victim of her own beliefs when she begged them to take her to the hospital but they ignored her. That part was just too horrible. (Totally unrelated but I have to say I am absolutely loving the yellow eyeshadow ❤)

[@justkiddin84]

She was always the victim of her own beliefs.

[@audreynelson3997]

I don’t want to sound insensitive, but “you could end up dead, blue and covered in Christmas lights” made me laugh so hard Also I find it funny how Amy went thru so many men, so many “father gods” when she’s shaming her members for being “wh0res” 🥴

[@cierahowell8653]

You know they all probably believe she cured herself of cancer

[@TheWobblyQueen]

She was charging people with cancer for readings and cures so I’d think so.

[@mkb7013]

Oh absolutely!! And one of them mentioned that they would find that she had multiple hearts!

[@medicaoctavia8002]

She went from a clueless hippy (which still isn’t great and she was still antisemitic and racist) to someone terrifying. I’m chilled.

[@exchangediary968]

Wait was she always racist ??

[@chelseakitkatz]

I mean antisemites and racists are terrifying. I’d say she went from terrifying to absolutely horrific.

[@LatoyaOKAY]

Goodness me. I saw a couple black members in the cult though. Yikes 🤦

[@stansmiley9737]

@@LatoyaOKAYme too… but I’m black and I wouldn’t put it past black ppl getting involved in a group that was racist towards them… some black ppl don’t love being black and are delulu so it would make sense to them to get involved in a group who h8’s them..

[@exchangediary968]

yeah they were like 2-3 black members who were part of the cult in the early days when they all lived in that small house but they started to leave i think because of the racism@@LatoyaOKAY

[@alecmoore7664]

“I was still good back then.” YEAH YOU WERE JEN! Love you; love this channel. ❤

[@deec6535]

I want “there’s no assholes or bitches in heaven, dear ones” on a hoodie.

[@princess7strawberry]

I say if we all want to support Robin Williams, we should go see his daughter Zelda’s directorial debut “Lisa Frankenstein” next month.

[@rosestewart4543]

I've kept up with LHW since they first made major headlines. It always bothers me how they get downplayed into 'lol weird hippies why would anyone believe this shit' when what makes them so dangerous is how they bury their antisemitism and racism under new age beliefs it'd be easy for someone to unwittingly stumble on. I don't think you can talk about LHW without acknowledging that Amy was an abuse victim who went on to perpetuate a lot of that same abuse because she never found or received help, and I appreciate you highlighting that for as awful as her actions and doctrine are, she's also a very harrowing example of someone who most likely just hitched her wagon to a bad coping mechanism. You don't go from how she comes across in those early videos to the ones from her final few years of life if you have people who are actually looking out for you.

[@KTempestBradford]

" they bury their ideological ledes of antisemitism and racism under new age beliefs" New Age beliefs are fundamentally racist and anti-Semitic. And I wish more folks understood that.

[@aislingconnors3277]

I just want to say I think when “Aurora” says “mom doesn’t allow drugs” I think they meant like pharmaceutical drugs. They kept saying over and over again that they only took “natural drugs”which to them meant weed, alcohol, shrooms, and I guess the silver 🤦‍♀️ Anyway it’s a very sad and tragic story

[@TheElf_Online]

I love how people just conveniently forget that alcohol is just as much of a drug as weed or psychedelics. Just because it’s more socially acceptable doesn’t mean it’s not classified that way. Hell, caffeine is a drug too. I’d hate to see what their opinions are on mental health medications are. Obviously many drugs can be abused, but drugs aren’t inherently bad.

[@JosedeJezeus]

Yea.... a person can die from alcohol withdrawal. Alcohol is totally a serious drug. It’s crazy how we say drugs and alcohol as if it’s something different.

[@hyacinthmoon6289]

The body cam police footage of them finding her are wild.

[@fantasticbeck3938]

I was kind of shocked that the documentary included the body cam footage of her corpse. In the opening of the first episode, no less

[@scrumbledrumble]

when the cops start laughing as they see her corpse i can’t tell if it’s bc they’re so disturbed or laughing at her expense

[@hyacinthmoon6289]

@@fantasticbeck3938so I had no idea about the hbo special until I started this video. I actually paused this video to go watch the hbo series. I had seen the body cam footage before on KZbin but HOLY SHIT that documentary was wild!! And yes, the opening scene! My lord!! Wow. All I have to say is wow

[@margaretwartime2542]

People are very susceptible to manipulation and vulnerable while under the influence of psychedelics, and you’re so right Jen about possibly worsening or triggering mental illnesses starting in some cases. I have no doubt it worsened Amy’s dangerous delusions. Please stay safe out there everyone, psychedelics are powerful, use them with care and respect and only around people you trust.

[@KTempestBradford]

For sure. There's a reason why they can be useful for getting into better mental health when you're in the care of someone who understands them. It's literally the same reason they're dangerous to use recreationally. They can have a powerful and permanent effect on the mind, either helpful or destructive. The one you get is based on your intentions, the support you have (or lack), and the responsibility of the person administering them.

[@m0ssb0y]

if i had a nickel for everytime you guys have covered cults that i have personal ties to id have TWO nickels, which isnt a lot, but its weird that its happened twice

[@annikkirahko6714]

Can you expound? What are the ties to this one because that’s wild

[@m0ssb0y]

@@annikkirahko6714 my partners mom was in the cult for a short period of time when they were in mount shasta, and very nearly went with then when they left. as for the other cult, bethel owns most of the small properties and is very affluent over spaces of life in the town i grew up in. nothing too intense but still weird lol

[@annikkirahko6714]

@@m0ssb0y Glad it was nothing too intense, but definitely wild that it happened twice for sure😂

[@hannywhyy3415]

My friend is apart of their Australian group 😢

[@charllandsberg]

There's more?! Lol, I remember Ask a Mortician's video on this and thought, well... at least it's wrapped up... and now there's more? I am excited for your video, can't wait

[@charllandsberg]

I always ask myself "the story is bad, how could it get worse" and it always just gets so much worse. But I would love to see Caitlin from Ask a Mortician talk about all of this too, her video and your video about them is absolutely fascinating

[@foofieviolet]

Ok but "at least that's wrapped up" is a hilarious pun... considering the Christmas lights mummy thing 🤣

[@theartfuldodger5326]

I'm surprised that Robin Williams estate hasn't sued these people. 😮

[@mariearteaga3056]

I was genuinely shocked at how blue she was towards the end. I'm genuinely glad they look physically healthier though. Key words being physically healthier.

[@arumpke3221]

I can’t believe people continued to be with her the way she talks to them. Her laugh alone would have had me running

[@mkb7013]

Omg you and me both!! That laugh alone is terrifying! 😂

[@tily5939]

I watched the documentary on HBO. The guy they called "father god" is so fucking creepy.

[@caitlynwinkler4189]

The grin he did at the end of the first episode sent genuine chills down my spine.

[@racheljones1998]

The dirtbag energy coming off that guy is…whooo, so much.

[@deborahmulkey1627]

A true sociopath, and fraudster.

[@dwdillydally]

Which one? There are 6 or 7 of them. The last one is Jason Castillo.

[@juliestrickland7754]

Her sitting there making points and looking at her fingers like she just realized she had them. Lost her train of thought and did a little freak out dance. Wow. Like Pac man up in her brain eating up little pieces of it, one game at a time.

[@SjofnBM1989]

"They call em fingers but you never see thing fing.....wait there they go."

[@juliestrickland7754]

@@SjofnBM1989 😂😂😂😂😂☠️

[@ChristineSeaman]

As a life-long Coloradoan, it has been a wild month for seeing our state pop up in the national news cycle

[@longlivebeans]

Shout out to Hawaiians for giving them the boot lmao.

[@frontporchcake7592]

The last ‘father god’ gave me the creeps even through the tv. His eyes and the way he moved his body and his tone of voice had my skin crawling.

[@Ben-nu4uj]

the editing in the documentary definitely added to it too but yeah he was just scary. reminds me of some men I've met in my life that I hope not to see again.

[@KeremcanBuyuktaskin]

He introduced Pantera to those pathetic hippies, how can you not love a man like that lol.

[@annleesuh]

Craziest part to me in the HBO doc was them going “Hahahhaha some idiot said the colloidal silver made their skin turn blue! What an imbecile!” And then their leader’s skin literally turned iridescent and part of the reason for her passing was allegedly the consumption of colloidal silver

[@Gildedmuse]

I would love to hear their hot take on why she had turned blue and how it looks exactly like silver poisoning but isn't.

[@sbobbyboi]

These delusions remind me of my brothers ideas, who is diagnosed bipolar 1. Very sad. Devastating to family members to see a loved one go through this.

[@bec7080]

When they talk about being sleep and food deprived that is probably why it seems like your brothers bipolar delusions. I'm bipolar 1 and usually what triggers mania or delusions is being seriously sleep deprived. That will happen to people who have neurotypical brains but it is exacerbated in those with mental illness. If any of these followers have mental illnesses they are triggering them and even if they do not have any mental illness they are essentially creating their own delusions by starving themselves of food and sleep.

[@playtagwithasemi]

when she says "equal heart," i keep thinking she's meaning "=3." which would be unfortunate, cus that would just make her hilarious.

[@salyx]

The clips of them remind me of the years I lived across the street from a meth house. At least 20 people packed in there at all times, mountains of trash, constant screaming and fights, it was a nightmare. One of them even made me late for work because he was out in the street punching cars that drove by.

[@phoebegeebie1]

Here for the yellow eyeshadow💛💛💛💛

[@DimaRakesah]

It always amazes me how this group used the word "love" but didn't see how hateful they were. Cults really make lies into truths.

[@heyyodude8637]

You just described American Christians

[@laby1999]

So excited, i watched the hbo doc a few weeks ago and fell into a deeeeep rabbit hole. I rewatched your vid on the topic and so many other vids covering the cult and the aftermath. Y'all are blessing me today amen! (But in an atheist kinda way)

[@sillygo0oser]

Hbo doc actually left out a lot of the bad stuff

[@sourgreendolly7685]

amen in the atheist kinda way is gonna be my new catchphrase 😂 cheers!

[@kristyhughes3146]

I now need “Amen! In an atheist kind of way” on a tshirt

[@Reioa]

I hate how good Aurora and Hope are at public speaking. Could've been used for good if not for their shocking beliefs.

[@leah-jr5gc]

i think in the doc aurora said she was an attorney or at least was in law school

[@crystalp7242]

17:29 That’s apparently what happened to Syd Barrett (the original lead singer and guitarist for Pink Floyd). He was known to use psychedelic drugs, and while the exact nature of his mental state is under debate, his drug use either caused a nervous breakdown or exacerbated an already existing mental illness that got so severe to the point that his bandmates just stopped picking him up for gigs, and he was replaced full-time by David Gilmour (who’d originally been brought in when Syd’s mental health had started declining and for a time the band had five members).

[@Treppy_Gecky]

Happened with Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys as well.

[@justkiddin84]

Right-and strong doses in particular are very dangerous. More isn’t better!

[@raydavison4288]

Sydney and Brian both had preexisting psychiatric problems that were exacerbated by frequent use of high doses of psychoactive drugs. 90% of users of psychotropic drugs don't experience these kinds of reactions.

[@yourpalfred]

I was obsessed with your Weigh Down video before I watched the doc. Glad to have an opportunity to repeat that experience!!

[@coela2616]

lmao I just watched the netflix twin flames documentary last night and was thinking about how fundie fridays should branch out and include "high control groups" in their umbrella

[@MC-ll4md]

I pay attention to cult stories when they come up. I find them sad and fascinating and I do my best to have empathy for the people sucked into them. I know these folks are searchers and often broken. I really struggle having empathy for anyone in this group though. I watched the documentary and it made me beyond upset for so many reasons. Enabling this delusional and/or incredibly manipulative mentally ill alcoholic who seemed to only want to be a teenager forever, feels criminal to me. Perpetuating the actual hate that Amy put out into the world after her death, feels even more criminal. Amy ruined lives and those lives are ruining others in turn and it's just so sad.

[@LizStaples]

Yeah I have some sympathy for people who fall into cults (and cults are a special interest of mine) but the financial grift was pretty baked into this group and when a victim becomes a predator victimizing others I stop sympathizing.

[@justkiddin84]

Qanon is a cult. And we should absolutely have zero tolerance for it and give them no quarter.

[@JS-fb2nf]

She heard who will save your soul and she took that personally is top tier 💀💀💀

[@2degucitas]

Its possible she ruined her gut flora with the colloidal silver. By itself it wont kill you, long term use makes you blue grey. If she had a drinking problem or eating disorder that compounded the issue.

[@RenayOpish]

Right - like liver failure or heart failure? I wonder what it was that killed her.

[@tiffany.Elizabeth.]

@@RenayOpishin the documentary they died of organ failure specifically heavy liver damage from alcohol

[@magpie1504]

See was obviously very very drunk when she is screaming. Classic alcoholic behavior

[@caitlynwinkler4189]

Exactly what I thought. I seriously wish every alcoholic would watch those videos and realize that’s exactly what they sound and act like.

[@Arials]

seriously! i almost couldn't watch those parts because it's too reminiscent of people I know. the alcohol definitely affected her lol

[@kneau]

As someone living with an autoimmune disease that, when flaring, results in brain inflammation which can last for several weeks -- you see it as "classic alcoholic behavior," I see it as "classic brain inflammation." Possibly... Organic Brain Syndrome. Clearly, alcohol was in her life so I don't think it's unreasonable to underline that -- I just, found myself wanting to share that some autoimmune flares can prompt behaviors one may find indistinguishable from "classic alcoholic."

[@bvac71]

"Robin Williams. Not Mork. I checked." i choked

[@sara21-y5j]

I don’t think she was died from silver poisoning. It looks like she was already dying of alcoholic cirrhosis that she thought (or said) was cancer. Silver would not have treated either but she was def very sick pre-silver.

[@eponinesg]

Crestone is a really strange town, you've gotta be really next level strange for the locals to think you're weird there

[@TheLagostim]

"Look at tie dye pictures on the Internet"/ "no offense to gnome-looking guys!". You tell great stories but your asides are *chef's kiss*

[@em-agan]

This coroner was so kind and respectful. I really appreciate her clarifying what happened and talking about how they treated her body. Doesn’t align with our culture around death, but it was respectful and full of love. Seems like a great person

[@sourgreendolly7685]

Yet again I had forgotten it was Friday until just now. Hyped to watch as always

[@SoulfulVeg]

I have a friend who's been in two cults. She has currently settled into a dysfunctional relationship that takes all of her time and energy. It's sad because she's a great person.

[@jamiezuzu7326]

It’s probably her childhood trauma affecting her, she sounds like someone I’d know lol

[@ww3196]

I lost my childhood best friend of 13 years to a cult last year, so I can relate. I'm deeply sorry your friend is struggling so much, I know it's really painful to watch a friend struggle through these things and know there's little you can do to help them.

[@LizStaples]

I think “people pleaser” types can be especially vulnerable targets of high control groups and other abusers.

[@tellmeofyourhomeworldusul6060]

I wouldn’t have a friend like this…sounds like a disaster waiting to happen

[@DoeMeNeek]

Wow, must be pretty lonely if you only hang w the perfect people... ​@tellmeofyourhomeworldusul6060

[@KingdomFantasy669]

Another amazing follow up, I too had questions after the doc and glad to see I wasn't alone! Just wanted to quickly mention that "ashtar" is likely "Ishtar" a Mesopotamian goddess worshipped by ancient babylonians. Overly Sarcastic Productions has some fun videos with some of her myths!

[@soundwizardmary]

No ashtar is different than ishtar

[@sydneyraechin9064]

Okay that guy who apologized about making a horrible quesadilla in the doc was hilarious I forget his name

[@supaloops11]

The worst quesadilla in the history of the universe. Lol

[@timewarpblackhole]

The difference between her in the 90s and when she started the cult compared to her in recent times before she died is enormous. Its honestly quite sad so see someone deteriorate so dramatically.

[@mhmmokayL]

I need a T shirt that says “MY VISION WAS CHICKEN PARMESAN!”

[@historicallyapproximate]

I frikkin love how you include actionable topic warnings and when they end, and I love how you blur shit out cuz we don't need to see the full graphic moment to understand its real, it happened, there is evidence, moving forward

[@smellmych33z]

I watched the documentary w/ my cousins and it shook us. It was super unsettling to watch, and I have a lot of thoughts about it, like how Amy's actions are so human and how wild that is. Her talks are very much the ramblings of someone drinking and a lot of drugs(namely pchycodelics but definitely also meth at some point). Also the place she passed was Callahans, which is a local lodge close to the mt Ashland Ski area and well loved by the community.

[@caitlynwinkler4189]

Yeah it was so shocking to me how many followers she was able to amass when to me it was quite obvious that her ramblings were just her being drunk and high af. Especially in the later years when she was drunk every day all day.

[@angela777K]

She died in Ashland?! I haven't watched the doc yet...but that weird Rogue Valley hippie/tweaker vibe is REAL, and scary AF. Wow...makes perfect sense to me now, having lived in both southern Oregon and the southwest (Colorado)... Thanks for that tidbit!

[@smellmych33z]

@@angela777K im not from Oregon, and the vibe here is super weird. I was super cultured shocked. There are good people here, and it's pretty obvious when someone should be avoided but a lot of the hippy culture here is very conservative. And the lawlessness, sheesh!

[@funnyfun589]

please do more cults. love to learn about them

[@msdouglas12100]

Cults to consciousness is a good channel to hear stories from survivors.

[@Ben-kv7wr]

“High control group” YES Ms Research!!

[@Sprinklgrl]

Hope at 1:01:41 is so funny. She said “actually, with enough sleep deprivation, drugs, and starvation, we ALL can experience psychosis!”

[@alysium22]

The Rev Jenn has BLESSED those of us without HBO Max ❤ Also, Emily Louise is awesome. I commented on one of her videos about how my parents were in Church Universal and Triumphant, an 80s cult with a lot of the same new age, white supremacist vibes. She asked if I'd like to email with her about my experience and we had a great exchange. It's wild to think that I used to think it was normal to be raised with these ideas.

[@herbwitch5681]

It could have been far worse. She might have taken the kids along with her.

[@margaesperanza]

There was a poor kid who was born into the cult though. Had to grow up around these people…… *correction: two to three minors were mentioned, not sure what happened to the 3rd kid though

[@lediona3996]

"No offence to gnome-looking guys" had me cackling 😂😂😂

[@roxslide]

THANK YOU for posting this. Such a weird case and even a little disarming with how vulnerable Amy comes off. I still have so many questions. The one question that I can't stop wondering about is how did she end up mummified? Why is nobody talking about this? Was it the anorexia and silver or did they do something to her body? How were they able to hide her body in the car when they got pulled over without the police noticing the smell?? Fuck the EMF, that's the most miraculous part to me.

[@hazeld3703]

I have no idea how she became mummified, but I've heard that packing a body in salt will mummify it

[@sparklette1304]

Omg I literally just wrote my final class essay about them for my class based on the links and information in the description based on your last video! What a coincidence!

[@MarabellaMuncey]

You have covered this story so well. You are kind and compassionate as well as funny. It warms my heart how you share the truth without cutting people down. Also I love your eye shadow. 💛

[@tropezando]

I'm seeing a lot of people saying that mental illness doesn't cause people to say racist things, which is true, but neurological damage is a different game. Amy's behavior and speech remind me of the dementia that runs in my family when it starts hitting the middle stages and is exacerbated by building paranoia/hallucination symptoms, infections, and bad interactions with prescription drugs. Any family member of someone with dementia (or TBI) can tell you how much the condition can affect someone's personality. Given the excessive amount, length of time, and toxic nature of the substances Amy used, it wouldn't surprise me if she had done damage to her brain with them, which could have influenced the extremely cruel and harsh things she said and did. This is not a defense of her behavior nor her cult, just an attempt to explain why there is such a difference between her demeanor in her pre-cult days and her emergence as a figurehead.

[@DizzyBusy]

I'm rather alarmed by the former members, now scrubbed clean, who used to also say these things on live streams! Yes, high control group and such, but it was still them saying absolutely vile things. Now they look like they could be in my yoga class and that's the scariest part to me. The banality of their racism.

[@lordtette]

I don't know my mum's a nurse with the elderly and the amount of times racism is excused as dementia or alzheimers is worrying - that is till they say something equally offensive and they change their mind

[@DanSlaughter85]

I just want to tell someone my vision was chicken Parmesan with no context. 😆

[@kneau]

I agreed... until I successfully imagined what that might look like -- everything covered in red with white or yellow on top. Sounds like someone with snow vision syndrome, looking through heavily bloodshot - or outright injured - eyes.

[@lisahopkins9117]

It’s all upsetting, but I’m most angry about the fire in Oregon (as an Oregonian). 🤬

[@CafeGirlThrivers]

Oregonian here too

[@mybirdsofparadise]

I think Amy died from liver failure or something similar due to her drinking problems; in the documentary you can see her constantly drinking something that looks like alcohol and she has it even early in the morning. If that is true, its sad she didnlt get help and were just enabled to continue self-destruction.

[@CaptainPeregrin]

According to A Wrinkle in Time, the fifth dimension is a tesseract (aka the titular wrinkle)

[@lindseyhendrix2405]

Titular wrinkles huh? Sign me up