LOVE THAT MIDDLE SECTION // Emperor - Thorns On My Grave // Composer Reaction & Analysis

Bryan reacts to and talks about his thoughts on Thorns On My Grave
ORIGINAL VIDEO // • Thorns On My Grave
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00:00 Intro
00:48 Reaction
06:45 Analysis - Love The Extra Instruments
10:51 Analysis - Clear Production
13:40 Analysis - Verse/Chorus Atmosphere
17:13 Analysis - Wild Drum Ideas
22:20 Analysis - Riff Heavy Writing
24:29 Analysis - Campy Vocals?
27:42 Analysis - Lyrical Dive
31:54 Outro
#reaction #emperor #blackmetal

[@progperljungman8218]

Pretty much exactly what I was hoping for and expecting reaction wise. And, you really did an analysis to back it up! In the later years of Emperor as a permanent band (they've been doing reunions in more recent years, playing old material) they were certainly gong in a more and more eclectic direction while never abandoning bm as their core style. Main writer and vocalist/guitarist Ihsahn went on to a solo career whith less restraints and would become more embraced by the prog (metal) community while also probably bringing some old bm fans with him into enjoying works from a more varied palette. Enslaved is another example of a classic Norwegian bm band that took a similar route - but as a band.

[@craigroaring]

One of the joys i get listening to music comes from not knowing what's going on.

[@user-ni2io9oe9n]

Baffling choice of recommendation - Prometheus is a banger of an album and shows Emperor at its most progressive … but this is THE most blastbeat-heavy song on the album. You seemed to like it anyway, Brian, which is great, but I’d have picked The Tongue of Fire, or Depraved, or The Prophet, or even In the Wordless Chamber, if I was aiming for something you’d really appreciate and enjoy. Would love to see you react to the whole album actually. This is probably heresy, but it’s my favourite of theirs.

[@thegrimner]

In the wordless chamber could be an interesting compromise for Bryan, seeing as it is the song in this album that most resembles the classic Emperor sound, only with the more modern and clinical production. It's no coincidence that it's the one song from this album they play live.

[@progperljungman8218]

This was my recommendation. I had a really hard time picking from this album which is also my favourite. I might have settled for Thorns on My Grave just because it so clearly in the bm style, yet very eclectic and in my mind relatively palatable for Bryan. Might have been the same for the full album, but at least this one went down well I think 😊

[@dimitriid]

It's been a long while since I don't listen to Prometheus but I do remember a lot more interesting songs, even the single Empty played a lot more with their 'Classical inspired but with intentional, really strong dissonance' style and still had sections of blasts I would probably go for that one.

[@progperljungman8218]

@@dimitriid Well... Bryan ain't a big fan of prominent dissonance though

[@samunden]

Not my favorite era of Emperor but this is still miles head of most symphonic/prog black metal. I need to revisit this album...

[@PatrickSinger1]

Doesn't surprise me that you like this more than typical black metal. Late Emperor is pretty far removed from the canonical style of the early 90's. The things that stood out for you - clear production, compositional complexity, discernable vocals -are the opposite of what defined Black Metal a decade earlier.

[@progperljungman8218]

Exactly! That's the point of this theme: what might be good bm to his ears.

[@ElizaSkold]

Nice, I was considering suggesting a song from this album too for the theme, so was glad to see someone else do it, even if it's not the song I'd have picked. It's easily the best Emperor album for me, even as excellent as the other three are. This one really feels like a culmination of their sound, really embracing the complexity and progressiveness of Ihshan's songwriting. Tons of fantastic three guitar sections with intertwining melodic lines, all with that sweet orchestral backing. Good stuff. In essence, this is a solo Ihsahn album with him having written and composed everything, and playing most of the instruments on here too. Lacking a little bit of context diving straight into this song though, with it being the closing track to a concept album about the titular Prometheus, with an added meta layer of also being about this being Emperor's final album and the band being laid to rest.

[@progperljungman8218]

I did write some of that context with the suggestion

[@ToonamiAftermath]

Surprised to see this here, not the best production nor is it even the best track on this album but I just love Ihsahn's energy he sounds possessed.

[@samuelhernandez1081]

EmperoR 🤘🏽🔥🤘🏽 top band in Black Metal

[@zsjb_]

Regarding the lyrics, it's unfair to view them completely on their own without considering that this is a concept album detailing the story of Prometheus, who happens to be the main figure of this song. As the closing track, the lyrics feel like the epitome of a journey we as listeners have followed the character on and so the impact is that much greater. Also, regarding the middle 'slow section', I believe you miss the point of it structurally a little, it acts as more than just a display of cool ideas, firstly the transition into it was very smooth and maintained the flow of the song perfectly which signifies the intent with which it was placed, furthermore, the abrupt pause with confidence in the transition back also serves to give more power as the opening section returns, it works beautifully and doesn't feel forced in the slightest. I'd treat the piece almost more like a simple ternary form, A being the opening aggression, B being the slow brooding middle section, and then A returns to conclude the piece. Overall I really enjoyed this review and your thoughts but I thoroughly recommend returning to Emperor's maybe less accessible early works as that's where the true magic lies.

[@craigroaring]

The start reminds me of very heavy rain.

[@robertroest7619]

People always refer to the first two Emperor albums, but I think Prometheus is also a masterpiece. In my opinion only their third a Is a little less than the rest.

[@planetcaravan2925]

True

[@peeterlillak4410]

I would disagree with the drumming analysis. The odd beats on the snare drums in the middle section add an unbalanced and uneasy feeling in it. And that is very well contrasted against the follow-up section which features very straightforward drumming and riffing style. I think the drummer Trym very well weaves the rhythm pattern and knows exactly what he is doing.

[@ShadinCore]

if you want some emo-esque lyrics in blackened music check out band "harakiri for the sky" (i would provide examples, but youtube doesn't like copy-pasting, so just look up lyrics for song "the graves we've dug" as example)

[@CriticalReactions]

That name is super familiar so I thought I might have checked them out before but it seems like I haven't. I guess I'll have to fix that

[@ShadinCore]

@@CriticalReactions i feel like checking them out might be one of those "is this even counts as black metal adjacent?" moments, but i guess it depends on the track but in hypothetical scenario of spontaneous impromptu reaction listen to "and oceans between us" 🤣 was listening to it often for the past few days

[@paulmedina2381]

Try the band agathodaimon their blacken the angel album

[@thegrimner]

Really not the album that best represents Emperor, not by a wide mile. Prometheus could be more aptly defined as Ihsahn's solo debut, because that's what it is. He composes everything, and plays everything except the drums, leaving outside Samoth, which was the other creative element of the group. It's a weak album by Emperor standards as a result, IMO, and neither is it the best Ihsahn moment either. Some people who prefer the more proggy elements might find fault in the early albums sound,, but the chaos did suit them a lot better, there was a method and a complimentarity to how differently both guitars were played, one sharply and more lead based, one dirtier and more "wall of sound" that really enriched the sound even before the more symphonic, synth elements. So yeah, this one tends to sit on a really rough spot in Ihsahn's discography. He was always the main composer in Emperor, but Emperor's sound was at its best when it was collaborative. Here, he wanted to leave Emperor behind and explore other things, and his melodic writing is by and large good enough that he never really did a bad album, but it's lacking a bit of Emperor's character at its prime, and lacking a bit of the self assured experimentation that would later characterise Ihsahn's finer solo moments. Anthems is widely regarded as Emperor's finest work for good reason, not least among them the feat of being a varied collection of songs that flows incredibly well as a whole album. This album has a few better arrangements here and there, like the lovely counterpoint you were such a fan of, but most of the songs are made of some occasional great moments as opposed to being great. Despite it's rougher edges, anthems really is stronger compositionally, dipping in and out between brutality and atmosphere and knowing when to use the keyboards as support so that guitars can build the melodies, and when to give them center stage. They're one of very few bands that knows how to compose for all instruments, and where neither guitars or keys are static.

[@progperljungman8218]

You do have your points when it comes to "Classic Emperor". But the challenge here was to present black metal that could appeal more to Bryan than more traditional (which has been frequently featured and rarely appreciated, though he's always done his "job" doing serious analyses). The suggestions for this theme aims to prove that there's bm that deserves HIS liking.

[@thegrimner]

​@@progperljungman8218 wasn't aware of that specific. Even so, I would dare say that classic Emperor could very well meet such criteria. He did enjoy "I am the black wizards" and did have nice words not just in regards to the variations within the composition but even to the relative clarity of the production. If the sound in in the night side didn't bother him, I'd say Anthems could have a fair shot to impress on the merits of the composition alone. In fact, and understanding the week's theme, it seems like the choices so far seem to go in the direction of showcasing black metal that's not entirely black metal anymore. I'd argue that it would be entirely possible to present examples that were less ambivalent and still manage to grab on their own terms. Most of what clashes with Bryan is either to rigid in it's blast beating structure, too Lo-fi or, frequently, both. Stuff like Kvist or Limbonic Art, or Emperor's Anthems could be a good opportunity to showcase some eclecticism that was present at the start which got lost on on newer iterations, and simultaneously showcase that black metal doesn't actually need to colour too much outside the lines to have broader appeal. Especially when talking about the second wave.

[@progperljungman8218]

@@thegrimner I'm sure you have loads of great suggestions that would fit your taste better. You might also be right that there's more "trüe" bm that could appeal to Bryan as well. This was the description for patrons who (from $1 a month for equal voting power) got to suggest and vote for songs under the theme: "The Good Black Metal - Gimme that stuff on the fringe of the Black Metal fringe that is pushing the genre in new directions. Avant-Garde, Experimental, and Progressive Black Metal are great genres for this theme but songs aren't required to be classified as any of those. (Yes the theme title is a joke 😄)"

[@lokeforce8905]

Not this album brother! Listen to the other 3

[@MMasterDE]

Very strange Emperor choice. 🤷 Probably their worst album, and is this even a good track from that album? Classic Emperor (EPs and albums): Wrath of the Tyrants, In the Nightside Eclipse, Reverence, Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk.

[@progperljungman8218]

We were moving away from more "classic" to more "on the fringe" with this theme

[@MMasterDE]

@@progperljungman8218 Is Emperor fringe? Like one of the most classic BM bands out there.

[@progperljungman8218]

@@MMasterDE No, no! Nooo! This late Ihsahn made version is on the fringe of Emperor as a band and somewhat on the fringe of black metal "as we know it" 😊 And that was what was wanted for the theme.

[@petegrusky2715]

This sounds very ...convulsional, what happened to old Emperor? Old men should not play too much with blast beats, i guess 😂