LOW-End M4 Macs Good for Music Production? & Buying Advice

[@mikelo303]

Finally. Straight to the point. Technical analysis. That is all I wanted to know. Now I know which model to get for Music Production. Your sweet spot as I thought. I never thought P cores are hidden like that within their marketing fluff. Thanks for pointing out what really counts. P cores! Thanks again!

[@bjornark]

Glad it helps. Take care!

[@charlieclown9913]

I am switching from MacBook Pro intel 2014 into MacBook Pro 16 inch M4 Max with 64GB. my next upgrade will be 2034. Absolutely worth it for my music production.

[@tonyhawk123]

@@charlieclown9913 When you next upgrade make sure you don't skimp on the 1TB RAM option!

[@Shoran-p1u]

@@tonyhawk123how about 512GB with SSD?

[@tonyhawk123]

@@Shoran-p1u Not sure what your question is? My reply was a joke on the 10-yearly upgrade cycle and that on this occasion a lot of money was splashed on the RAM upgrade option.

[@cre8view]

I love to make music with a laptop because that mobility gives me creative ideas. You should try it

[@bjornark]

Absolutely, I often use the laptop to create ideas.

[@richardjames111]

My new Mac should be arriving tomorrow... Opted for a 2021 MBP M1 Pro 16" 32GB 1TB... Considering I'm currently on a Mid-2012 13" MBP Intel i5 16GB, I'm expecting a considerable jump!! 😃

[@dezelve]

Hahah no doubt that jump will be huge. Enjoy!

[@richardjames111]

It is indeed like night and day!! HOLY SHIT!!! 😂

[@bjornark]

Someone got his new tool? 😉

[@richardjames111]

@@bjornark 😂

[@briancase6180]

With Apple's quite good battery management, if you keep your MacBook plugged in continuously, the charge level will be kept at 80% and there will be almost zero battery degradation. At least that's what I experienced with a couple of machines that I kept plugged in (nearly) all the time. When I decided to sell them a year and two years later, the batteries had 90% and 99% left.

[@tonyhawk123]

@@briancase6180 I've previously had a MBP and iMac and this time I'm going for a Mac Mini (or if patience prevails, an M5 Studio). I dont like that relatively new MBP has a fixed battery and I don't like that an iMac has a fixed display. But your stats are interesting to revisit the laptop. How old was the laptop with 90% batt health?

[@briancase6180]

@tonyhawk123 it was a 14" M1 Max. I also had a 14" M1 Pro for other work, both plugged in almost all the time. The M1 Pro I used on battery power occasionally. It had 90% battery health when I sold it (a month ago). The M1 Max had 99% when I sold it (also a month ago). I bought both of them new from Apple shortly after the announcement of the devices. (I was using a 13" M1 before that, so I knew that the performance of the 14" machines would be what I was looking for.)

[@tonyhawk123]

@@briancase6180 Cheers for that. Any idea why the Max faired so much better on battery health? Any trends you could pin it down to?

[@MusicInMotion1000]

I got the M4 with 24GB RAM and 1TB SSD. Reason for this is because every time I was trying to run plug ins/libraries from external drives I always had problems. If I was barely using libraries I would go for M4 Pro

[@Spid3y_69]

My MacBook m3 with the 128gb got here on Monday and they announce a whole new line up.. 😀

[@bjornark]

You can probably return it for a refund if you just got it?

[@Spid3y_69]

@@bjornark Nah im chillin. I already got everything set up on this badboi here

[@wasabi333]

holy crap. I'm at 18gb and it's been no issues here, although it shows crazy high usage, never had any issues

[@gt4032]

⁠@@wasabi333yeah it uses the ssd when memory is used up so you can push them way harder than you’d think. It’s seamless.

[@dievannadal]

@@Spid3y_69you should honestly exchange it for the M4 if the price is the same. The performance jump is significant if you’re still in the return/exchange window!

[@LiamTweaks]

Gonna try the base M4 chip see how i go with Logic and if it becomes an issue ill return it and upgrade to the M4 Pro Thank you for this!

[@luckylukas3506]

You gonna make comparison to anything?

[@ehhhhhh3982]

how was it?

[@Auldhelm]

Great video! - I bought a new base model m4 laptop (had Windows laptop that I gave to my son) - Working great - I have an M1 Mac Mini and also used that with no issues for music and video production - But I am not doing more than 10-15 tracks and not a ton of plugins - I am usually doing tracks for others productions and my files mostly have 2-4 tracks and I do short 4k video editing

[@bjornark]

Sounds reasonable, thanks for watching!

[@lmfap79]

I mostly record rough mixes, ideas and small music snippets for my band. Until now I used a 2015 intel 8gb ram. Now updating to m4.

[@H-4-D3423]

The M4 Mac Mini Pro upgraded to 1TB would be slightly cheaper than the M3 15 MB-Air spec-for-spec. It would be a nice bump up and would just give you a massive jump in headroom for sure. The base Mac Mini M4 on paper (Geekbench compute) has more power than the 12 Core M2 Pro Mac Mini. It'll be interesting to see what music stuff benefits from M4. Gr8 vid as ever Bjørnar!!

[@bjornark]

For sure! Good value there (in Apple land that is).

[@H-4-D3423]

@@bjornark Now a refurb Mini M4 Pro at $1350 would be a very good deal to drop on at the right time too!

[@FSK1138]

Mac Mini M4 base unit for me 🥰

[@bjornark]

Good choice

[@mastersimz9531]

Let me know how it is for music production because I’m seriously considering it.

[@flordeluna-music]

Thanks a lot for the variants sheet!

[@bjornark]

You are welcome

[@alancarmody8848]

The upgrade pricing is ridiculous. You would almost certainly be better off upgrading whenever a new base mac mini comes out rather than buying any upgrade options, especially if you are only working in music. I would also suggest laptop buyers wait til the M4 MacBook Air comes out and buy the base model. That’s what I’m going to do from now on, and forget those overpriced upgrades

[@bjornark]

Yes those upgrade prices are sneaky. For desktops you could get an external SSD and live fine with that. A bit more hassle if you are mobile and use a laptop.

[@zxcvbnmmification]

Upgraded from an intel mac book pro to a 16in m1 max mbp for production/mixing … the its more powerful than the mac pros that were in all the studios i worked out of.. everything m1 pro and above.. completely unequivocally capable and usable and reliable for music production and mixing..

[@kiryushah7382]

Thanks for your analysis of the processor line. This is a very useful video for me. I'm wondering which is better: MacBook Pro 14" (M3 Max 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 2023) 36 GB, 1 TB SSD or MacBook Pro 14" (M4 Pro 14C CPU, 20C GPU, 2024) 24 GB, 1 TB SSD? In my region they are the same price. Based on the specifications, the M3 Max configuration looks better, but what if there are significant improvements in the M4 Pro architecture? Thanks in advance for your answer. UPD. Let me add context: I will be working in Ableton and sometimes Davinci Resolve

[@thomas0101]

I like your level headed guidance. I was going to build a hackintosh but now think I'm going with the M4 mini for a number of reasons not the least of which is just the fact it'll take too much time to research and build a hackintosh... I do graphic design, photography, video production and music production but I think the base model M4 Mini with 32GB of RAM will be enough for me as my video and music production work is of moderate intensity. I mean most people who do my kind of work say they've gotten by fine with the M2 base model with 16GB of RAM... I'm also considering the M4 Mini Pro--wish there was a 32GB of RAM option on the Pro model you only have 24GB and 48GB of RAM option available--but I'm pretty sure the base model with 32GB of RAM will be fast and capable enough for me. Plus if it turns out not to be these machines hold their value and I could always sell it and get most of my money back and then buy the Pro model.

[@dievannadal]

You can always test out the base model and if it isn’t sufficient exchange it back to Apple for the pro version

[@thomas0101]

@@dievannadal True!

[@jalmelb]

Just ordered a M4 Pro / 48GB / 1TB. Upgrading from an intel i9 / 32Gb ram. Very excited. Thanks Bjørnar!

[@areallyboredguy5825]

Dude that's way too much money, the base m4 seems to be enough for space just get an external or something.

[@ithrial]

I have an M2 Max MBP with 64GB and 1TB and if they had announced the M4 Max Studio, I would have pre-ordered no hesitation. The M2 Max is plenty powerful for my size of projects BUT for me its a matter of scaling. I didnt buy the high priced SSD storage so naturally, like everyone else, I rely on external storage. However, depending on the amount of storage you need (in my case I have an 8TB TB OWC enclosure, 1x 2TB single NVMe drive and 2TB USB SSD), you have to then rely on hubs and docks. Even if you use high quality docks and hubs like Caldigit TS4 and their Thunderbolt USB hub, daisy chaining TB can drastically reduce performance of some TB drives. My OWC, when daisy chained goes from 2400MB/s read/write to 900MB/s write. Going with an M4 Max Studio would have afforded me not only the performance boost but also the extra Thunderbolt Ports and USB-C front ports. I''m tempted for the M4 Pro Mini for the size and M4 would still be a great improvement but wouldnt solve the TB problem I personally have. Bring on the M4 Max Studio!!!

[@bjornark]

I see that external SSD problem. Maybe TB5 will help out with transfer speeds using multiple SSDs on a new mac studio.

[@ithrial]

@@bjornark It should. TB does reserve some bandwidth overhead for Display functions but yes TB5 should help with the 80GB/s throughput (the 120GB/s throughput is a misnomer)

[@nunooliveira4257]

​@@ithrial Do you use your Mac for music production? Is so, how do you connect the audio interface to it? I wonder if connecting it through a doc will also limit its performance.

[@ithrial]

So I do connect it thru my Caldigit TS4, however my audio interface isn't Thunderbolt. I use an Audiofuse 16rig with 2 adat expander over good ole usb 2.0 (usb-c). The 480Mb/s write of usb is performance enough for many many tracks of audio. RME did a big write up on USB2 vs USB3 VS Thunderbolt a little while back showing that for raw audio file capture, the added bandwidth is not needed. So in the conversation of TB daisy chainning, even with some bandwidth reduction, the many many Gbps through available on the uplink of a thunderbolt dock is more than enough. The only reason why it's more noticeable on storage is because PCIe storage has crossed the threshold of Gigabytes per second (not to be confused with Gigabits per second)

[@wasabi333]

Crazy crap I've NEVER SEEN on Windows, maybe I never checked it?!

[@busyworksbeats]

What are your thoughts on peripherals? Like which monitor and keyboard etc

[@bjornark]

Oh that is an entirely another subject. Could talk about that for hours. Up to you. I dont use Apple keyboard and mouse. Dont like them. I have a Logitech G915 keyboard and a mouse from the same company. Works just fine for me.

[@alpgencgil4936]

Whats up dawg

[@maximkovalchuk2147]

Yo bro I know you ! You think mac m4 max with PreSonus Quantum 2626 Thunderbolt 3 will give opportunity to track without latency?

[@buttery6228]

Exactly the video I was looking for!

[@bjornark]

Glad it helps!

[@0007Donald]

Thank you Bjørnar! You're very kind and your advice is very helpful!

[@musicandmusic9796]

For those wondering. For music, i use logicx and I have a Mac book pro M2 Max 96 gigs of ram and 4 tb storage. I do edm pop electronic etc…. Plugins such us native instruments, iztope atcade.and few others will make logic throw audio errors. With to many plugins you will get latency when playing a keyboard. This didn’t happen often when I had an old Mac bro tower from 2010. Over all ok performance but it’s not that you can throw endless amounts of plugins and it will run flawless. Latency button in logic is going to be your friend. I also think that those that are running from external drive, will have a better performance. Cost approx $7000 cdn

[@TheJonHolstein]

Of course you can't do endless amount of plugins, but you should be able to get really really good performance with that set-up, is should outperform a Mac Pro from 2010 by a lot. Do you connect your sound interface to it's own USB-port? What interface do you have? What other things have you connected on the USB-ports? and are you just using the internal drive? External drives, to this point will still be slower than the ones used in Apple silicon computers, even if you get the more expensive USB-4 SSD solutions or the even more expensive Thunderbolt SSDs.

[@musicandmusic9796]

Absolutely, you can’t use endless amounts of tracks, it was more to those hyped videos that show 500 tracks playback with logic x plugins etc…., as they are not the same when you start throwing 3ed party plugins and want to do some live playing with it. I’m talking about 30 to 70 tracks depending on the song. No external drive for me and all is running from Mac. As for audio interface, ssl 2+ - honestly 0 noise and absolutely spectacular unit connected straight to the Mac. I suspect iztope is playing a big number on my latency.

[@TheJonHolstein]

@@musicandmusic9796 are you using neutron (and Ozone)? Those plugins are more for the Mixing and Mastring stage of production. Not the go to, for EQ, compressor, or saturation needs when you are at the sound design stage. The resason I asked bout interface is that the drives could cause issue. Sure SSL does not match RME, or Presonus in terms of latency, but it should not cause any unexpected issues.

[@musicandmusic9796]

@@TheJonHolstein yes, I do use it as I feel the need for it and maybe you are right, wrong tools for the stage. I was and I am a disorganized producer. Mixing and mastering I send off to the engineers as I know what I want but I can’t get the sound I want on my own. I guess we have to know our strengths and I am actually ok with that as I don’t have to think about it and I just concentrate on the song design. As you know I’m sure, bad mix will destroy the best song. Oh, yes the other interfaces are on completely different level, but for my needs it will do the trick

[@TheJonHolstein]

@@musicandmusic9796 If you use the AI power for compression, I have no idea if this is the case, but the Sonible smart:comp that is only a Compressor might not strain the system as much. They also have smart:EQ, but smart EQs are typically not necessary on normal tracks, unless you use them for trying to suppress resonances and similar, but that is a process you only do once. Non smart EQ typically comes with presets, if you don't know how to EQ. You might want to use Neutron and Ozone, when you have printed all tracks to audio, and to a demo master, and then use the smart features to balance tracks against each other, or get the mix to sound in the style of something else.

[@BelfastBiker]

Educational discount, 16GB Mac Mini, £499. FAST External 2TB, £200. Final Cut Pro plus Logic Pro, £200. Total cost, £900. Screaming machine.

[@leech1219]

very easy to listen! subscribed!

[@bjornark]

Thanks :)

[@Steven_Beddall]

Awesome video thanks Bjornar!

[@bjornark]

Thanks for watching. Hope it helps. :)

[@SejaySegal]

I'm curious why you recommend moving up a model if you want 1TB of storage (on the M4 Pro models)? Is it a value proposition or is there benefit to moving up CPU/GPU power as you increase SSD?

[@bjornark]

Sorry for being unclear here, yes it was about the value.

[@Bek-bl2ed]

Hi! Mac Mini M4 base ok for audio production? I’ve gone g3,g4 to Mac Pro 3,1 - 5,1. My concern is the 16 gb of ram but I don’t think it should be an issue? Also, I’m using my UAD octo satellite so I don’t think the base mini m4 would be a waste of money correct ? I’m not getting crazy with my virtual instrument count … but I am looking to get crazy with plugins every now and again. Reason I am asking is because I had to switch to pc for work, have an Alienware m18r2. Thought it was going to be amaaaaaaazing…. I do not like PC for music production at all. I can’t shell out too much money on another computer, would rather spend that on a mic etc, you know the deal…. Think M4 is a good call or just go for the m4 pro mini with 24gb ? I could go on and on but I’ll leave it at that. Thanks !

[@davidrosenwald3838]

Have you had. chance to try the M4 Mini base system with Ableton? I am really leaning towards getting one for my wife just for tracking and base production as I do everything on my Mac studio. But I think it would be perfect for her with Ableton 12

[@bjornark]

I am contemplating getting the base mac mini. It would work well with a lot of music production related projects.

[@sandupetre363]

Currently running on the base Mac mini M1 16Gb, I can still trade it for half the price off the base model and add storage to 512 SSD on the new M4, but thinking about the M4 Pro version also which is more future proof. The new size really helps hiding it much better and getting rid of all the cables on my desk. Its getting to the point where you can get into music production with the base Mac mini and some external storage unless you run orchestral libraries that require terrabytes.

[@bjornark]

Very true!

[@Necca_UK]

Using macbook m3 air 16gb 512gb, quite happy.

[@bjornark]

Very capable machine. I use that model myself!

[@Screaming-Trees]

The Mac Mini with the 14 core option, 64gb of RAM and 1TB SSD is actually rather reasonably priced. I paid a little more for the M1 Mac Studio the year it came out so it is good to see that there's been no inflation on that. Rather it's gone the other way it seems. 10 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores is 4 more cores than the M1 Studio was so that's a lot more value for a little less. And the M4 cores are probably 20-30% faster too which, again is more. Seems like we're heading in the right direction. Good to see. I've switched to the laptop workflow but the new mini really does seem like a monster proposition in terms of value even if you spec it up to the above configuration.

[@tonyhawk123]

10 performance cores?

[@Screaming-Trees]

@@tonyhawk123 Yes. If you buy the 14 core option it's 10 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores. IT's a $200 upgrade I think and totally worth it as such.

[@tonyhawk123]

@@Screaming-Trees Wow. That's quite the step up from the 4 performance cores of the M4 (non-Pro). Makes me wonder how much harder that pushes the tiny fan in the Mac Mini or whether the Mac Mini gets a thermal upgrade when opting for the M4 Pro. All very nice on paper. Only thing holding me back from upgrading from my Intel iMac at this point is the potential fan noise when maxing out the chip specs and the price of RAM upgrades for running local LLM.

[@bjornark]

True. And on the M3 you had to go up to the MAX to get more than 6p cores. Now Apple have fixed that with M4.

[@Screaming-Trees]

@@bjornark Yeah. And this is obviously a good thing. There is one odd quirk about the M4 Pro however. On the Mac Mini you can configure it with 64gb of RAM but on the MBP it tops out at 48gb. So again two steps forward one step back and all that...

[@StarStarYT]

Ended up getting the mbp base m4, i think its going to be enough power for me experimenting with editing, modeling and such. gonna be my first macbook 😊

[@allongroth7971]

Thanks Bjørnar! This video brought me to your channel for the 1st time. I’m considering the Mini M4 pro with 14 cores, 48 gb and 1 tb replacing a Mini M2 16 gb which proved too slow with large string instruments and multiple audio files. Do you think the M4 will make a big difference, and is the current Studio M2 Max an equally good option?

[@bjornark]

It will be better, of course. But orchestral stuff isnt something I have a lot of experience of. RAM and storage is something to focus on here. Since these libraries are very sample-based as far as I understand.

[@tomm1-c9e]

I'm still rocking my 5950X. I'm good.

[@bjornark]

Keep using it until you cant! That the sensible way.

[@Phantommxr]

How does Reaper work with these? I bought am M1 Air as you suggested for now, thinking about a used m1max or m3pro mini or studio. Any thoughts or suggestions?? I know how deep you go with the tests and specs vs price, you are one of the few that I truly listen to on this type of subject! Thanks for the effort my man!!

[@bjornark]

Reaper works native on M CPUs, so it should work pretty good! Thanks for watching. :)

[@michaeln1712]

Hi thank you for what you do. Will an m1 pro max be a better choice than an m4 pro ?

[@KirkWinterrowd]

From the benchmarks I just saw, the M4 Pro would be the way to go

[@michaeln1712]

@ thank you

[@raspillade6027]

I hate that you have to choose either 24 or 48 GB of RAM with no 32 GB in between for the M4 pro. That upgrade to 48gb is $380. I would have liked to split the difference.

[@bjornark]

True, its the Apple way..

[@mistermissesmister]

I am looking to upgrade my 2012 Macbook pro. Would you advise a Mac mini m2 pro (which would have 6 p cores, more connections, but 'only 16gb RAM) or the base M4 model? Which gives me only 4 p cores, but 24gb of RAM. Both in the 1tb storage. Although I could get the M4 base model with 512GB, but spend the money Im saving on getting 32GB of RAM. I feel its a tough choice,

[@salut9658]

They increased 16gb standard but they decreased 512gb to 256gb lol Thanks for your videos anyway love them

[@spectruum]

on what mac did they decrease the ssd size?

[@STeroidsnicca]

If producers could make it happen on equipment that’s not 1/100 as powerful. It’s not the equipment.

[@bcjaliu]

I need to upgrade my 2017 MacBook Pro 😊. I do home recording, and may get into video. Can one find M2 Max or Ultra machines still? Or should I just go with an M4 Pro? I’m thinking of going 32GB memory.

[@bjornark]

Getting an used M1/M2 Max/Ultra mac studio can be a sensible choice.

[@bcjaliu]

@ thank you !

[@ChromaCat]

I'm considering buying the M4 pro, but not sure how much RAM I need, They don't have 36GB option any more. 24 I think is a bit low, 48 is too much ..

[@TheJonHolstein]

which pro? The more expensive one, cost about the same in price difference that there would have been between 32/36GB and 24GB, so if you really can't find the budget for both these upgrades, I would probably make sure to have enough RAM. 24GB, is a small amount compared to the CPU performance, so the you can run in to situations where the RAM limits the performance before the CPU does. Sure Macs will use the SSD, kind of like RAM, but that will impact the lifecycle of the SSD.

[@alpgencgil4936]

I think u have two choices here: If u want 1tb ssd u can configure directly the low end m4 max version which comes 36gig and 1tb storage for 3.5k or u can configure m4 pro 48gig and 1tb storage 3.1k. Do u want a 16 inch version or 14?

[@ChromaCat]

@@alpgencgil4936 16 inch definitely. the M4 Max is a bit expensive here. I was thinking rather between M4 pro or M3 Max with 1 TB. But these again are a bit expensive for me. I would rather just get the 512 SSD M4 Pro (not max) I already have a 2TB external Sandisk Extreme Pro.

[@ChromaCat]

@@TheJonHolstein I am aiming for M4 pro with 512 SSD as I already have a Sandisk Extreme pro 2TB and my Libraries are there. The 1TB here in my country is way more expensive and it really depends if they even import it. Most times for Pro they just get the 512SSDs and just different RAM.

[@TheJonHolstein]

@@ChromaCat I'm not the one suggesting on internal storage. While I personally would want 1TB (at least, but that going for more with a mac, is not justifiable if you are on a budget), and would absolutely recommend against 256GB. 512GB Could be fine, combined with external storage. There are two versions of the M4 Pro, one with 8 performance cores and one with 10 Performance cores. The one with 10 also gets a few more GPU cores. The price difference between the 10 core and the 8 core, is about the difference in price between an 32GB/36GB version, if there was one, and the 48GB version. And in that case, I would probably recommend going for the 8 core with 48GB RAM, if one had intended on the 10 core, but wanted 32/36GB of ram, as in theory those two option would cost about the same, so it would have been the same money. But if you were looking on the 8 core, then that doesn't matter.

[@Nikxsy]

Hows the fan noise? I heard the base M4 gets pretty loud

[@accentontheoff]

I don't understand why they won't release an iMac with a Pro chip in it. It would sort out the whole stress of choosing a monitor for the Mini. I can only assume they are trying to push the sale of their Studio Display, although that doesn't make much sense considering it's priced as much as one of their mid-range computers. Then again they are probably pushing the Studio Display on to those who get the Mac Studio Ultra.

[@bjornark]

Maybe they are working on an iMac Pro (Again?) and saving the CPU for that. Just speculation.

[@accentontheoff]

@ Yes, true, maybe.

[@klinikat5313]

I am using Win 10 with 64GB 5900X with Bitwig. Performance is very shitty when using hungry VST FX or Synths. Can't load as much as I wished it would be able to load many Third Party plugins. I know Reaper can handle this very good but I don't like Reaper. So maybe a switch to a Mac Studio M4 Pro/Max/Ultra with 24 GB would be a winner ? Or more GB ? How much ? Thank you Mac User for any input/advice ! PS: Maybe would switch to Logic as well, as it is a very easy DAW in my opinion...😊

[@SamHocking]

Would be interested in your finding if you do with the M4. I have an M2 Ultra Mac but it's not really as capable as my Intel i9 13600 with Bitwig. when I benchmarked the M2 Ultra hit it's limits in Bitwig and the i9 handles around 70 more tracks, which was around 30% more dsp.

[@klinikat5313]

@SamHocking this is shocking info. RAM equal tested ? Not sure but long time ago I wanted an i9 14900k system and now I hear the Ryzen X3D or something like that is leading ? However, maybe M4 Ultra is the megabomb ?

[@michaeleichler2514]

Great video, thanks for sharing your thoughts! The M4 Pro with your recommended configuration starts at 1.649,00 € here :( Would you still consider it "sweet spot"?

[@bjornark]

Yes, for a lot of people it will be more than enough for music production.

[@michaeleichler2514]

@@bjornark I was more wondering if you think the 500 extra are worth for the Pro over the M4 with 24GB/512GB

[@toweringmother]

Should I have bought the M4 pro 24gb ? Still within the return window for my 12-18 36gb and 1tb.

[@Aprendebateria]

I just want to record drums on my home studio, I think the mac mini base model is fine with an external ssd. What do you think?

[@bjornark]

Yep. It is.

[@alexwr]

A 2012 Mac Mini would be fine for that... Of course an M4 Mini will be fine!

[@mootsym]

I’m curious what you guys do for backing up files. Many suggest not paying for internal storage and using external. That’s fine, but then are you backing up what’s stored on an external drive.. onto another external drive? Isn’t that super tedious? Or do most pay for TB of cloud storage and use that as a backup? I’m old fashioned and still feel leery of Apple or whatever services storing all my personal data and pictures etc. Internal and external drives do fail.. so again, how are y’all backing up years worth of files?

[@bjornark]

I have a NAS at home where I backup everything. Then the NAS backups selected things to the cloud. In my case I use something called "Jottacloud". You can create scripts and automations that does this automatically for you.

[@woshilinlaobei]

A 8TB hdd and iCloud (like it or not, it's magical)

[@mootsym]

@@bjornark interesting. Thank you

[@manumonogenis]

Where does memory come into play here? My M1 2020 MacBook pro base model with 8gbs of ram overloads itself to the point where "task manager" says its using 40gbs+ of memory. I'm working in big hr long projects (film scoring) with taxing vst's like spitfire chamber strings etc. My performance is struggling/buffering so much that I need to freeze all of my tracks but the m4 Max MacBook pro price hike is just too high like you said. Unfourtunatly I don't have time to wait for the M4 Max and Ultra chips on the Mac Studio so, would upgrading the ram on the mac mini m4 pro to 48gbs be worth it along with the 20-core GPU?

[@bjornark]

Well, if your projects already use 40GB+ on a computer that has 8GB. It means it has to write the memory to disk and as a result it will be slower. It seems like your workflow prioritizes RAM so I would look into that. Thats one thing you cant upgrade after buying a Mac. Just make sure you have web browsers like Chrome closed when producing. It can take up some RAM. I would probably look into getting 64GB for your use.

[@manumonogenis]

@@bjornark Thanks so much for replying! When I work everything is closed besides Logic so 64-96 (ram) does seem like the way to go now. The laptop prices get too extreme so I may go with the M2 Max Mac Studio with 64 or 96. However, this M2 Max Mac Studio lacks 2 cpu cores that the M4 Mac mini has. Given that the Mac Studio has a 30-38 core-gpu compared to the Mac mini's 20 core-gpu, that should make up for the cpu-core loss, right? (losing 2 cpu cores wouldn't be a big deal, correct?) Thanks again for you time.

[@focusonjunta]

Bjornar, perhaps you can answer this ‘audio with macOS’ question. MacOS defaults to audio input channel 1 or 1/2 for using external XLR Mics with apps from voice memos to desktop ChatGPT to Chrome (voice typing), etc. If one is using a multi-channel input audio interface, there seems to be NO POSSIBILITY of using, say, input channel 3 or 6 or 7... Obviously, this is not a problem with advanced audio apps like Adobe Audition or a DAW such as Ableton Live which provide options for ‘channel mapping’. Is there a solution for non-audio specific apps to use an input channel other than 1 or 1/2 in MacOS? Thanks so much,

[@tonyhawk123]

How high can the Mini spec get before the tiny fan becomes an issue with noise?

[@bjornark]

Lets wait for tests and see :)

[@tonyhawk123]

@@bjornark I'm very-not-so patiently waiting for the granular reviews to come in!…

[@sonikblaksmif]

Can you clone the internal drive then run it off an external SSD..??

[@bjornark]

Yes, or you can install macOS on an external drive and boot from it.

[@ckatheman]

So, lets see - the M4 Max has a top speed of 400 MPH. the M3 Max, around 300 MPH, and the M2 Max (which I have) - lets say 250 MPH or so. I do a lot of music production, VST's, effects, etc.... and the car never goes over 100 MPH - so what's the point?

[@bjornark]

You get up to the allowed speed limit faster.

[@nunooliveira4257]

You said it might be worth waiting for the M4 Mac Studio. You think there won't be an M3 Mac Studio before that?

[@bjornark]

No, I think Apple wil jump to the M4 on Mac studio. And skip M3.

[@dude_9521]

macbook pro M3 Pro 18gb ram or macbook pro m4 16gb ram?

[@bjornark]

Depends on price/what you personally need?

[@dude_9521]

@ on a music production i learning sound engineering and need som laptop cause mine just stopped working and i dont know if take macbook pro m3 pro 18gb ram or macbook pro m4 16gb ram

[@BelfastBiker]

I mean, people used Intel Macs, M1s for music production. Why iit even question that M4 is suitable!?!?!?

[@richertz]

I found the base m1 underpowered (even woth 16gb ram). I went to m2 pro and the extra 4 performance cores made a big difference.

[@yorkan213swd6]

No question, no reason for a easy made video.

[@richertz]

@@yorkan213swd6talking about music production - the pros are minimum in my experience. You can make music on a 10 year old computer if you want, but if you want a good track count and to use some of the new plugins I would make sure you have 8 performance cores.

[@Jbbbb-k1s]

​@@richertz Once M4 is out I assume the other prices will go down - do you reckon a MacBook Pro with M2 will be enough for logic?

[@richertz]

@@Jbbbb-k1sit’s more than enough depending on what you are doing. It handles 60 + (I’m sure a lot more) tracks with virtual instruments and vocals with no issues.

[@xsamaras1]

Great content as always... One easy question...I consider buying the 16" with 14 cpu, 24gb and 1TB...Are 24gb enough for music production or i should go for 48? I don't use many sample based instruments and I'm not writing orchestral music... Thanks in advance

[@HarunoGasai]

You should do 48. For storage you can use external ones but ram cannot be upgraded later so ram ftw

[@bjornark]

Good advice here. 👆But I dont believe you need 48GB for "regular" projects. 24GB would be more than enough.

[@dianat.6426]

16gb would even do if not heavy dsp instruments or loads of tracks in your projekts

[@KadriYounes]

They doubled the bandwith right? More important than more memory in my opinion. So in that regard the m4 trumps the other M’s. And if you consider M1 to 3. You should probably go get the one with the most performance cores.

[@xsamaras1]

I'll go for the16", 14 cores,1TB and 48gb... I still use my MacBook pro 2013 with some problems of course and I'm planning to keep the new one for many years

[@arlandajim]

Thank you for this video.

[@bjornark]

Thank you for watching.

[@BurninSven1]

I don´t think how many vst or softamps you can run at the same time is important at all. I use real instruments, amps, real mics and mixers. I will probably get a M4 mini but do I need it, nope I do not.

[@bjornark]

It is important so you can compare different systems.

[@thomasbroker69]

For me it’s about core numbers not speed, Logic can only use 1 core per channel strip, with half the the cores of an Ultra it doesn’t matter to much if it’s faster, for me the M1 ultra is the best deal by far, it has 20 cores & tons of headroom on each one especially compared to the new M4 machines, the M2 Ultra was a minimal upgrade & only needed for video work.

[@directed6924]

M4 mac mini base model looks very interesting, especially if they fixed 256 SSD speed issue.

[@bjornark]

Yes, oh the 256gb its still slower. I should have noted that.

[@TheJonHolstein]

​@@bjornarkI would also recommend against 256, as even with external storage, that is very low for the system and installed software.

[@laeticiamele9135]

Hi, thank you for the video, where did you find the data for the cores especially for the m4 pro with 8 performance cores and 8 efficiency cores ? Thank you !!!

[@bjornark]

8efficiency cores? Did I say that? 🤔. Check the link to the excel sheet.

[@IcemanTheDj]

I am on min 1:20 and I wanna say that FL Studio, the DAW that I use, uses all the cores in a M processor, not only the performance cores. There was a video comparing this and there are DAWs that use only the performance cores and DAWs that use all the cores. So it depends on the DAW that one uses.

[@TheJonHolstein]

Yes some daws support use of all cores. But with M4, the price difference is small enough that in most cases it is worth going with the Pro version, as you get quite a bit more performance. I would really suggest against getting the 256GB version, and as soon as you start adding storage, the relative price difference decreases.

[@bjornark]

Isnt it only reaper?

[@IcemanTheDj]

​@@bjornark No! @TheJonHolstein I have M1 with 256GB SSD and 8G RAM and still have 146GB available with all I need installed, FL Studio, 2 mixing software, plugins, samples, etc.​ I only use the internal for software installation and what is needed for music production like samples, libraries, etc. For music, movies, photos and anything elseI have an external 1TB SSD. I always clean so no unused stuff laying there. So it depends on what you need! I wish to upgrade for the RAM. I only had problems once or twice, but I prefer to be prepared for the future. And Macbook Air M1 will remain a good laptop for my wife... 😉

[@TheJonHolstein]

@@bjornark no, there are several of DAWs that support using all cores. Cubase and Pro Tools as well. There is a good video on it from when the M3 pro macbook eas released, but then Pro Tools did not support it either.

[@TheJonHolstein]

@@IcemanTheDj if the person is going to install plugins and their sample content on the internal ssd, they should absolutely not get the 256GB version, you might be fine but most will not be able to do with that little space for the lifetime of the computer. With Zike or Hyperdrive ssd enclosure and nvme ssd, you can get speeds over 3000Mbit/s so in theory you can install things on an external SSD, but I would still not recommend only having 256GB internal storage.

[@MikaMoupondo]

The only reason to upgrade now would be to not lose too much value on the M3 Max when you resell. If you are not taking that into consideration, then there is no point to upgrade now. I own an M3 max and I can't see the limits of its performance so definitely from that perspective there is no point in upgrading. I am only thinking about the fact that the longer I wait the more it loses in value. I owned an M1 Max before and jumped over the M2 and lost quite a lot when reselling it to buy the M3. These are expensive machines, when they lose value it doesn't feel great. I am really torn on this...

[@HarunoGasai]

You don’t have to. The best deal is m4 pro 14 core cpu but that’s only about 5% faster than the unbinned m3 max which doesn’t make any difference. The only big difference is the increase in ram.

[@bjornark]

True. You should really factor in depreciation when you buy these things. Its like buying a car in some sense.

[@MikaMoupondo]

@@HarunoGasai I usually go with the un-binned Max models for the Gpu power. My fear is that when it will time to upgrade again, my machine would have lost so much value that it will be almost like buying a new one from scratch. That is what it felt like when I sold my M1 Max to buy the M3 Max. as it stands now, I'd probably be loosing 1000 Euros more or less.

[@MikaMoupondo]

@@bjornark Totally, when you spend over 5000 Euros to buy a computer, you don't want to start from scratch. When people realise that the pro is better except for the graphics, it will bring the price down quite a lot. So stressful 😅

[@HarunoGasai]

@@MikaMoupondo I think you should probably focus on what you can do with the machine more than the value of it when you sell it later. New year new tech it happens like that every time, if you have fomo it's never ending for you. Get the machine and start working on it and forget other things is the best solution I think.

[@nc102_]

do you have any insight on the new core ultra cpus for music production yet ?

[@nc102_]

the desktop ones i should specify

[@bjornark]

No, but I think it is highly likely that M4 Ultra will release with an updated Mac studio in 2025. The M3 Max does not have that interconnect that connect the CPUs together. But who knows, ultimately its up to Apple.

[@nc102_]

@bjornark i’m sorry i should’ve been more specific, i meant the intel core ultra 200s series 😅

[@ivanmisurecmouseproduction493]

Doesn’t the new mini gets so fan-noisy and easily overheated as it was in the case of mini 2018 with i7 and 16 GBs…..? I wouldn’t like to have such a machine again🤔….

[@bjornark]

Any computer will create some noise depending on load and fan-setup. However Apples ARM architecture is much more efficient compared to Intel. If you get by today with an 2018 Intel now and move to mac mini I dont think you will experience much noise at all.

[@ivanmisurecmouseproduction493]

@@bjornarkThanks a lot for your answer - what would you recommend more for the mid-level music production….: M4 with 32 GB RAM, or M4Pro with 24 GB RAM…….🤔

[@anatol1204]

The question I have is how much ram you need for orchestral music.My friend uses 64 GB in his window computer.Is this same with macs or you need less because the CPU is faster?

[@TheJonHolstein]

48GB will in terms of performance of the RAM be lower than 64GB for orchestral music. With the speed of the internal SSD, Macs can use the internal storage sort of like RAM, but SSDs have limited read/write cycles so it might cause issues in a few years if you rely on that, this method is why some people claimed they could do with much less RAM on their Apple silicon Macs compare to windows (when the m1 came out a lot of people thought that they needed much less ram, so that myth got spread online). Mac OS is not even 8GB more efficient, so if you can never take a full step below in the ram config, but you might be able to do a tiny bit more with it. The CPU speed does not impact the need of ram for orchestral music, as the samples stay loaded in the RAM. Track freeze/bounce/render will be much quicker, so you might be more comfortable with doing that to save a bit more RAM, compared to on a computer with a lesser cpu. If you are looking at Macbook pro, it gets unreasonably more expensive to go for the top M4 Max to get the option to have 64GB of ram, over 48GB max with m4 pro. For the mac mini, go for 64GB, as 64GB is offered with the M4 pro in the mini.

[@anatol1204]

@TheJonHolstein thanks very much for the answer because there is a fog around this subject out there..

[@TheJonHolstein]

@@anatol1204 I can also add that for certain tasks, the speed of the read/write to the Ram combined with a fast CPU, can make it so that you need less, but that is for certain rendering tasks, so in terms of video or 3D rendering which uses a lot of RAM typically, you might be able to do the same task quicker or with less ram, than you would otherwise need. However, if you do rendering like that, the amount of RAM, the speed of the CPU and the core count all correlate more than music production, because typically the rendering will be even faster with more RAM, as the CPU cores can stay busy all the time. But since the question here was about orchetral music in particular, the reason you need RAM is that orchestral plugins (except for SWAM) rely on loading several articulations and mic positions in to RAM when you put them on a track, and thus you need a lot of RAM, in order for that not to limit the performance of the system. But there are other genres of music where the plugins uses samples as well, but typically less since they typically don't load articulations and multiple microphone positions, but they may have round robins, so it is not given that if you don't use orchestral instruments, you don't need a good amount of RAM. But in general, if you don't use orchestral instruments, you can do with less RAM, because it is likely that you will run in to the limits of the CPU performance before you run in to RAM limitations. If you read in forums of people getting by with less RAM, you have to make sure they are doing the same tasks as you intend. And to make it more even confusing, there are even people out there that make music, that are so used to freezing track, bounce/render in place in their process that they don't see how annoying it is not to just be able to edit a parameter or load a new articulation. And don't even know what they would be able to do with Apple silicon, if they had enough RAM, and testet a version with more P-cores. Typically they are used to Laptops, or have been using their desktop computers for many years before switching, so their habits come from use of really old computers. Among them you also find people that even before the Apple silicon release, claimed that music making does not require high end computers. And that is really annoying, because I have even heard people outside of music making sharing their opinion when recommending, or talking in general of the computer needs for music makers.

[@bjornark]

@TheJonHolstein Appreciate your insights, thanks for sharing!

[@_pokies]

Subbed, nice video

[@2ShortNsweet]

Will I be able to match the internal SSD speeds with a external ssd?

[@briancase6180]

With thunderbolt 5 ports and a true TB5 external drive that has fast flash chips and a fast controller (check the specs of the external SSD), yes, you should be getting essentially internal speeds with your external drive(s). TB5 drives will be more expensive at first, but they will almost certainly be a fraction of the cost of Apple's internal storage. That said, it's quite nice to have capacious internal storage. A larger amount of internal storage will also help resale value somewhat. But, you're probably going to want to have an external drive to backup internal storage anyway....

[@bjornark]

Currently max external SSD speed is slightly above 3000 MB/s with an external enclosure.

[@2ShortNsweet]

@@bjornark Will you make an update on the “state” of daw CPU utilization? Particularly interested in ableton.

[@girotto5467]

I just bought a m3 max 48gb, the m4 is 1.2x faster is not worth the upgrade, now if u have a m1 or intel macbook, now is the right time to change in my opinion.

[@bjornark]

True, I wouldnt upgrade from the M3.

[@MikaMoupondo]

@@bjornark The only reason to upgrade now would be to not lose too much value on the M3 Max when you resell. If you are not taking that into consideration, then there is no point to upgrade now. I own an M3 max and I can't see the limits of its performance so definitely from that perspective there is no point in upgrading. I am only thinking about the fact that the longer I wait the more it loses in value. I owned an M1 Max before and jumped over the M2 and lost quite a lot when reselling it to buy the M3. These are expensive machines, when they lose value it doesn't feel great. I am really torn on this...

[@girotto5467]

@@MikaMoupondo when it comes to technology you will always lose money.

[@MikaMoupondo]

@@girotto5467 True! It's yearly fact when you work with it. I am trying to do my best to mitigate the loss, lessen the pain so to speak.

[@lookingforamuse]

Use an M1 Mac Mini with zero issues here.

[@yorkan213swd6]

Why only light video production? M4 is as fast as M3 Pro…

[@alpgencgil4936]

No. M4 has very little more horsepower but also it has about same cores as m3pro costin u for less money

[@yorkan213swd6]

@@alpgencgil4936 So you mean the M3 Pro is suitable for only light video production ?

[@alpgencgil4936]

@@yorkan213swd6 both are suitable just gimme the deals that u get on sites or whatever we try to buy the most performance in a slight price u know what I mean

[@wasabi333]

Damn, expensive AF.

[@Meyzen_]

❤

[@luckylukas3506]

2x faster than Intel? Lol what Intel, what benchmark?

[@SamHocking]

Obviously not. All the hype is around the Geekbench scores, but Geekbench has regularly been accused of putting out numbers on ARM vs x86 that were not replicated in any other test or real world application. I'd say Apple have closed the gap but no way are they faster at the top end of x86.

[@bjornark]

? Take Apples Numbers with a grain of salt. Thought I mentioned that in the video.

[@DJminiLibra]

Wiedergabegeschwindigkeit 0,75 :( to much information and translate

[@bjornark]

Usually people increase the speed… 🫣😉

[@ferdinandbardamu3945]

Now that the 14 core m2 pro mini beats the M2 max studio, it’s interesting what will happen to the used prices of the M1 and M2 studios. They still have dual video encoders for editing and higher memory bandwidth for AI tasks.

[@ToXball]

When it comes to music production it is always very generic and subjective. For example, there is a difference between those who produce music editing many audio loops clips and many stock plugins, for these projects it is obvious that there will not be much power needed, even more so if you work with high buffer sizes. It is different, instead, if we talk about the power required by those who work with many synthesizer plugins, sampled pianos and orchestras to play in realtime with low latency levels buffer sizes, with third-party plugins that are often also expensive from a graphic and audio point of view. I believe that for the latter case it is more obvious to opt for a Mac mini M4 Pro, while for the other cases I imagine there is no difficulty in working even with the basic model. If someone has experiences to tell, it can certainly be helpful