Low Heart Rate Training After 250 Miles (Maffetone)

[@redoinslimani8424]

I started MAF and am in the second week. I think I have a similar fitness based on our marathon times but i am not sure. I ran New York in 3:10:56. I have a similar MAF experience. Everyday I run a 10k and in the weekend a long run. During those runs my heart rate is all over the place and to keep it down I have to walk sometimes and it stabilizes only in the last part of the run. Even a dog (I have a dogphobia) can spike my heartrate and it is not easy to bring it down. I ran a race last sunday and set a new personal best for 15k on 59:40 so my fitness ability is not affected and I want to stick with this method. I met Floris Gierman in NYC and I cannot ignore his results and results of many other MAF runners. It deserves a genuine effort which everybody warns for the difficulty of runnning slow so I will continue. I will go to Chicago for the marathon in 2020. Maybe I could meet and run with you and other followers attending the 2020 Chicago marathon. Hope you achieve your breaking 3 hour goal in Houston if not we can try together in Chicago. In Houston there Sage Canaday and Seth James DeMoor, who I met twice in the Netherlands and in New York, will try to break 2:19. Good luck to all of you.

[@kofuzi]

that's awesome! i think Chicago is a good place to go for #25959

[@fluffycolt5608]

Cynophobia. My son has it.

[@danielamestanek7899]

very helpful to deal with the low HR/Maffetone training beginner frustration. subscribed!

[@craigstephenson6684]

Hi! Really interesting to hear about your thoughts and frustrations on this subject. I'm a mere beginner at running, having only been running for the last 4 months. I'm 45 and on my 2 5 mile daily runs, my heart is around 165bpm. I feel WRECKED after my runs and I've had a few injuries on the way. Hopefully, this new system is a way to build up to a decent pace, where I don't over train or injure myself. Time will tell, I guess!

[@gabrielmaldonado2195]

You're overthinking those numbers too much and that prevents you from enjoying running lol. What I'm seeing is that you were able to put more miles than ever which is hard for most people. What I take from maf is that takes normal human beings like you and me and puts them through what Kenyans do when they're young. A lot of running at relative low efforts, after about 5 or 6 years of that they've got an aerobic base that sets them apart from everyone. Going 90-10 on your efforts will stimulate your muscle fibers and you'll see that you're going to do better workouts than ever. Looking at the numbers and stats everyday can be frustrating, it's like waiting for grass to grow or looking at your watch all the time. Just get the work in, train slow most of the time and fast when you need to and you'll be fine

[@deletethisaccountmofos]

o yea !

[@kofuzi]

i hope you're right.

[@hsitz]

I agree on that, Gabriel Maldonado. Main benefit he'll be seeing is from getting in more miles and staying injury free. Definitely a good thing, but as kofuzi understands he needs some faster training to run a marathon race optimally. Also, there seems to be some confusion about how MAF HR's translate to racing, or to marathons. They don't. I'm 56 years old and my maf hr is probably 120 (because of injury). I rarely run that easy, but I do lots of running at around 130bpm. My maxHR is around 180, though, and the average HR I can maintain throughout a marathon (just over 3 hours) is around 158-159bpm, starting in low 150's, steadying fairly early at high 150's, rising to mid 160's over last few miles. I think this is similar to how HR works in properly paced marathon for most people with 180bpm MaxHR. The Hadd Method is training method by guy who focuses on HR and running aerobically in training, like Maffetone, he's a little kooky, but in a different way, but in my opinion he focuses better on how to actually train to run a fast marathon, not on how to stay injury free (which to me is main benefit of Maffetone style training). Here (hopefully for kofuzi) is link to Hadd's training method document, which is actually pulled together from set of posts on letsrun.com many years ago: www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf

[@hsitz]

@@kofuzi Another link to some info on Hadd method, which I mentioned and linked longer document in the response I just made. www.fetcheveryone.com/article-view.php?id=434 I think it's a mistake to take any of this stuff as "scientific"; the idea that Maffetone passes his method off as scientific is ridiculous; nobody has ever achieved elite times with pure MAF training, and Maffetone has no clue about optimal mix of faster training. Hadd at least has systematic method at targeting fater training to improve LT, which is key for optimal marathon running.

[@britishrocklovingyank3491]

We aren't lungs with legs. Kenyan youth run intervals and there is so much more to running then aerobic.

[@TheRunningRRT]

Looking forward to see how MAF training works for you. I have been dabbling in it myself, but haven’t yet fully committed. For what it’s worth, I ran my fastest 5K(18:40)after doing low heart rate training for approximately a month at 49 y/o. I got bored and had feelings similar to yours and started running “normally” again. I plan on going all in after my race on December 1st and see what the results are. I think it’s all about building cardiac efficiency and building up a solid base. Congrats on the 81 mile week! With that kind of mileage you’ll definitely go sub 3hrs!I haven’t got there yet. I plan on building up to about 65-70 miles/ wk during the next 6-12 months.

[@kofuzi]

i suspect that happens to a lot of people

[@SunnyCurwenator]

...same happened to me...after MAF I ran my fastest ever 5k this year at 19:12. Love MAF "style" of training...I enjoy switching it up with faster sessions...this seems to work for me.

[@rayrunfitness5798]

I started my DAY 01 MAF yesterday, ran 60mins. Bit slower paces but,still managed to maintained my MAF range (135-145).. Thank you for your response to my question the other day..

[@Stringdude86]

I’d give yourself more time at MAF and ditch the Houston marathon, you will be that much more fine tuned for a fall marathon next year and will probably end up at a 2:50 or so. it would also reduce your daily stress (which will also improve your MAF) and you can continue to enjoy running until summer. Sry that’s when MAF sucks if you run outside

[@kofuzi]

i'd considered that.

[@jacobkerr8657]

Instantly recognized the Lakefront Trail & Chicago skyline! ... Such an amazing running spot, just did about 10 miles in the same area around the planetarium and all that :) Keep up the great work, the persistence now is worth it in the long run

[@kofuzi]

it's a beautiful place to run

[@nathaliec7330]

you have been patient with it well done! GOT this 1080 today nice soft and love the way my feet feel after even in trails.... well done happy marathon training.....i agree with the 90 percent range

[@kofuzi]

i'm glad you like the 1080!

[@richardevans8169]

I’ve been using a method similar to this for about a year, although I run 80% at low heart rate and 20% medium or high. I’ve based this on a book by Matt Fitzgerald called 80/20 running which he argues is the optimum ratio. It works really well for me as I’ve run 3 5k pbs (18:04) and 2 10k pbs (38:15) over the summer. I’m 56 and my weekly mileage is about 45. Good luck with your experiment!

[@kofuzi]

Thanks! I’ve read (listened) to his book. I like the concept

[@ferguson1376]

"Low" heart rate - is that zones 1 and 2?

[@richardevans8169]

That Guy overriding principal I apply is that it has to feel easy. That generally means my heart rate is about 125 ( max for me is 193) so that’s about 65% of max. In terms of the Matt Fitzgerald model, yes that means zone 2. Since my original post my 10k Pb has come down to 37:12 so something seems to be going right!

[@benlee526]

I have been doing MAF 2.0 (haha) for about 3 weeks. I do 5 days a week at roughly MAF range (usually edge just a bit higher on my long runs, but I don't sweat it) and 1 day of speed work. Just over the few weeks that I have been doing it I have found a) it is easier to run more mileage this way (physically, maybe not mentally) b)it works a different set of muscles that I didn't use to work much c) it conditions my heart to gravitate towards a lower HR range. I did 7 tempo miles yesterday and found that a) my overall HR was lower than it usually is on a tempo day, though the effort felt the same b)I was able to hold the pace longer c) my HR on my easy recovery day (today) was lower and paces a bit faster. I am training for my first ultra (60K trail race in Feb). Thanks for opening the conversation and discovery on this topic!

[@kofuzi]

That’s quite a change in a short time. Good luck with your 60k!

[@wdwebb]

Enjoyed this video. I agree more time in MAF training really helps. I did it for about 3-4 months last year and it REALLY improved my aerobic base (and my marathon times). I found that I could get my MAF pace down to the 8:50s after about 3 months or so (I started out at MAF pace in 11s). I found that I enjoyed running more and recovered a lot easier when running MAF. I sometimes think that spending too much time at MAF training without some speedwork etc. you lose efficiencies you can only get when running faster (form breaks down some, at least for me, at slower/MAF paces). I agree on the audible call to prepare for Houston. Good Luck. I see you are also a Polar fan, some of their charts and graphs really help you see the % of time at MAF over the week/month/etc. Really good stuff.

[@kofuzi]

I’m calling a double audible. Going to stay with just low HR for a bit longer than originally planned

[@cecilsmith24]

Just to let you know you have also inspired me to do some MAF training of my own and looking into more information about the process. I actually think it goes hand in hand with some of Jack Daniels thoughts on training, where he puts about 80% of the workouts in what would be considered this MAF range and 20% or so in a higher intensity range. The higher intensity runs are tempos, and interval workouts. So if you are doing 90/10 I think you are kind of in the middle, but have recognized that if you want performance in races you have to add some speed work. Best of Luck.

[@jpod]

Jack's easy pace is a bit faster than MAF pace, training MAF now but trained with JDs paces via VDot

[@kofuzi]

i like to think that all of these methods are all consistent in terms of underlying science.

[@bikeinmotion]

MAF does make sense if you are kind of new to running or to aerobic sports and you need to build an aerobic base. What I absolutely don't like is the 180-age calculation. It has been proven time and time again that this might apply for many but absolutely not for everybody because not everybody has the same heartrate range. I have noted on your runs pre MAF that on your high intensity runs you were spiking into the 190ies. As you are about the same age as me but I've only reached 182 max at two extreme tests in my running career I would think that you just have a naturally higher heartrate. The MAF heartrate limit equals the Aerobic Threshold (usually at about 2mmol lactate) so I would say if you want to continue on the MAF runs get a lab test done so you have REAL Aerobic and Anaerobic Threshold values!

[@kofuzi]

I agree with a lot of the points you make. One thing that someone else pointed out to me when I compared against my prior running was that I didn’t always wear a HR chest strap. I usually didn’t. So those HR readings are likely off. But in regards to getting a better idea of what my ideal training zones are, I think that is certainly useful but maybe more detailed than I need to be at the moment. I think if I stall in my progress (which I may very well be stalking right now, I suppose), I would look to more personally tailored HR ranges. But for now, I’m going to try and see what I can do with this generalized approach. I’m hoping that, over time, my body will tell me what my heart rate range will be. I just haven’t figured out how to decipher those messages yet.

[@bikeinmotion]

kofuzi I think feeling the aerobic threshold is something the elite can maybe but not we mere mortals. Still no HR strap I remember you often having over 190. Thats something I havent seen since my 20ies :). Did you wear a strap at the chicago marathon or half? Or do you have an idea what your heartrate at your lactate threshold is? A coach made me run a 45min all out effort at my lt/Stryd-CP and the heartrate I had there on average (170) was supposed to be my LT-HR. From there on he calculated the aerobic threshold at 150 (88% of lthr). A formula apperently Maffatone created too.

[@75dlow]

Keep up the good work, it’s tough to stick to the plan when there is a timeline and not knowing if training plan is on track or not to reach your ultimate marathon goal. I assume you’ll be incorporating parts of your Nike training threshold runs back into your program, as you already have a base would be nice to see if you have improved pace or heart rate since last work out. Love the update I almost feel I’m there with you, good luck and stay safe

[@kofuzi]

i'm cherry picking some of the workouts from last plan, but with a lot of modifications. perhaps for next fall i will try and repeat the process.

[@mlegrand]

Great video. Seemed like it was always the plan for you to mix in something other than low heart rate training. Glad things are going well!

[@kofuzi]

it was. i'm just accelerating the timeline a tiny bit

[@Vorxsg]

I just start MAF training too, and running slow is definitely hard but gona try it out for a year to see the results. And I am also doing some Lactate test in lab just to make I am training in the right HR.

[@kofuzi]

i'm thinking about similar

[@merkin22]

Looking forward to see how this works out in your training! The research is generally pretty clear -- easy runs should be EASY, hard runs should be real WORK. The middle effort is not only not productive but is counter productive!

[@kofuzi]

I’m fairly certain that my June marathon training block was 2/3 moderate 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@merkin22]

@@kofuzi Oh yah, research is one thing, my failing to go actually 'slow' on easy runs is quite another, as well :)

[@MrJermson]

This is interesting. Keep us updated.

[@kofuzi]

A peculiar experiment

[@cdh79]

Since i started running, I have always taken HR into consideration of my easy runs as well (i'm 40, and try to keep it below 140).. over the months i have seen the pace improve quite well, however there are still a lot of external factors, which i don't know you are considering: 1) I usually run in the evenings during the week and those runs are quite a bit slower, than when i run in the mornings before breakfast on the weekends (i.e. 5:35 min/km vs 5:10 min/km to stay below 140bpm). 2) If i don't have enough time between having had food and going out for a run, i can see that my body still uses energy for processing the food. For example, yesterday i went for a short, easy run about 40 minutes after having dinner (as otherwise i wouldn't have been able to go for a run at all), and my average pace was around 6:00 min/km at 140 bpm (and i almost felt the food coming back up). While i know a lot of coaches say that "pace is time, so practice using pace", but eventually the heart rate is your body telling you "hey, take it a bit easier" or "that's easy, i can go harder". I'd always rather listen to what drives my body, than an external factor.

[@kofuzi]

I would agree with that. I think it’s one of those things where pace was used as a proxy for effort because we didn’t have heart rate monitors or power meters. But now that we have those things, it makes sense to adapt. But old habits die hard. And it appears to be more of an apples to apples comparison to discuss pace.

[@brokenfreddy1262]

2 observations I noted..1 running at a set pace,i.e. 7min/mi over an extended period of time,your heart rate will go down while pace stays same..2. my max heart rate (pt where I start to feel nauseous)has decreased as my average heart rate has come down..also my resting heart rate is lower..

[@kofuzi]

interesting

[@ericwoot2]

cant wait to see what your marathon time is a year from now

[@kofuzi]

i think that's the right time frame to look at this. i think there will be what will feel like backsliding before there is real progress.

[@rliao]

Great video and very timely for me. I flirted with Maffetone training a few years ago but grew frustrated and impatient after a few months. I did have a modest benefit but I think I would have had a much better result if I had stuck to it as he says in the book for at least a year or two. I'd be interested in people with average finishing times who have trained with low HR technique for more than 2 years. I did have a great season with Fitzgerald's highly polarized scheme and PR'd with it. I'm recovering from injury and decided to try Maffetone again, this time with the plan to stick with it for a long time.

[@kofuzi]

i think the results from people who have stuck with it for more than 2 years is pretty clear. but i think the ratio of people who start with maffetone to the number of people who continue with it past 6 months would be interesting. i think the tempting conclusion to draw when it "doesn't work" for people is that maffetone generally doesn't work. my current theory is that maffetone applies to everyone, but the crazy impressive results come from those who don't respond well to traditional styles of training, i.e. people who aren't anaerobically gifted.

[@OgrePeak]

Started Maf training in october after recovering from a period of burn out...already improved by 30s/km, going from 8’20/mi to 7’30/mi or 5’10/km to 4’40/km, running 60/70km per week. All fasted runs, cause I eat once a day. Raced an HM on 17th november and PR by 1’46” less than previous. Stick to it, ditch weights and lower your hr to 130-140 (in doubt is better to go low on hr, not more).

[@kofuzi]

Ive been thinking that the 140 number may be more beneficial to me

[@OgrePeak]

kofuzi it would... stick to it, you will not regret it. Try to adjust your diet as well. Fasting for me is doing very well, is up to you. Don’t force the process, sometimes also you need to go maf -5 because you could be tired. Trust the process 🤙🏻

[@kevburmaster7161]

Hi Kofuzi, your lunge form is a lot better! I'm glad you're seeing some benefit from low HR training. If you can manage to keep your weekly distance of 70-80 miles up every second or third week, I think you'll see benefits. A lot of my runs are done in Z2 (below 135bpm), which usually feels really easy.

[@kofuzi]

i think i do well with high mileage. i'm hoping to really lean in to that and see where it can take me.

[@bboy6surme]

Thank you most def i will try this trough the winter ALL THE BEST

[@kofuzi]

I think winter is a good time for it

[@PaulCooijmans]

For comparison, I am 54 years old, and when I do an easy run my heart rate is 100-110, so well below what Maffetone recommends. I have been running for 34 years, and run 10 km just under 40 minutes.

[@kofuzi]

Beautiful. That’s what I’m taking about

[@andrewpozza6024]

I am of similar fitness to you. I started MAF last September for two months. Went from 10:10-10:30 to around 9:00. Attempted a mile and hit a PR, and as we all know, speed possesses addictive qualities. I got slightly injured and then covid, started a half marathon training plan start of 2021. Ran a 1:34 in hilly Austin. Focused on strength training and cross fit while cutting mileage in half. After listening to the josh sambrook/floris podcast again, I got the tanda calculator and re started a strict MAF regimen. I am 10 days and 125 miles in. My 5 mil test dropped to an 8:13 from 9:00. Now I’m hooked. No speed work. One taste and I’m toast. After that Mile PB I did maf plus 5 for a couple week And my fitness declined or stayed level (zone 2 still). So for me, I saw benefits at MAF 140 (now 139) down to 130 (now 129) but not one beat above MAF (threshold). I encourage you to dedicate time to strict MAF, on the conservative side, no strength training (effects HR and could be why you didn’t see more aerobic gains from mile 100 to 250). After re listening to Floris podcast as I run, I am convinced we can get into that sub 8 and maybe even sub 7 easy pace. The 8:13 felt surreal. Just a 💭 thought

[@shiguek]

Great review of the method. Good that u are moving to a 90/10. You are putting a ton of mileage and staying healthy. 👍👍

[@kofuzi]

i'm actually calling a double audible. going to stay at 100 for another couple weeks

[@shiguek]

@@kofuzi will try more low HR training myself, to build mileage and the aerobic base. Looking for a BQ and maybe breaking 3hrs next year. Keep it up and great videos. 👍

[@AFlamingSword]

Cheers from Niagara Region, thanks for doing this! haven't even watched it yet...lol. But thanks.

[@kofuzi]

thanks for watching!

[@Lazarky9]

Love the Goggins book, i've read it multiple times. if you listen to the second Joe Rogan podcast he talks about HR Training he did there too.

[@Lazarky9]

14min left in the second JRE with Goggins is where he talks about his HR training

[@jamjam7568]

@@Lazarky9 Yes, Goggins train, heard on Rogan too, check out his instagram when you don't feel like working out.

[@kofuzi]

i'll have to check out that podcast. i'm sure i've seen it, but i wasn't paying attention to HR

[@Lazarky9]

@@kofuzi its in the last 14min of the second JRE podcast with him.

[@6888gomez]

Keep at it brother! You got this!

[@kofuzi]

thank you for your support

[@tomfield2292]

For your more intense efforts, I'd consider all out quarter mile repeats. Truly polarized.

[@kofuzi]

I can’t recall the last time I ran an all out 400

[@GarbageLegs]

It'd be nice to think that some adaptations are happening, you ran an all time high weekly mileage and aren't a broken mess. I've always thought of low heart rate training or really any aerobic endurance training to just ensure that any volume work you are doing is not going to jeopardize your ability to get your next workout in. Getting in a HARD workout once a week in conjunction to your super slow volume work is a good thing to move to. That your legs are begging for a tempo run or track interval workout is a good thing.

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

My experience also. MAF is great for base and recovery, but ya gotta train fast to race fast, unless you are running ultras or ironman

[@kofuzi]

i had a similar philosophy going in to my june marathon. high 60 and low 70 mile weeks, a lot of those miles a bit too fast for my own good. but a generally good result. at the time, i considered easy runs as a means to get to (1) high mileage and (2) solid hard runs - in other words, a means to an end. now, i'm operating under the hypothesis that the easy runs are an end, in and of themselves.

[@JeffRElliott]

If you are looking to add some faster running to your general low HR workouts maybe you could look at 80/20 Running as a guide for some of the workouts as lot of the workouts in 80/20 have portions that are at a faster pace.

[@kofuzi]

i've read (listened) to it

[@justintgoetz]

Throw a few 10-12 second alactic sprints in there, i.e. strides. These stimulate fast twitch muscle fibers without inducing your anaerobic system. Your body uses creatine phosphate for these, that will be replenished after a few mins of easy jogging or waking. It won’t mess with your HR training, you HR doesn’t even have time to spike in that short amount of time. Lydiard has his athletes do these during the aerobic base period as a “Fartlek” run, which for him meant a moderate run with these alactic sprints mixed in

[@kofuzi]

that's an interesting take on fartlek. i like it.

[@AuDHDRunner]

Calculators are fun but i think it really comes down to miles/time on feet and lactate threshold. Has your miles/time increased? yes. Has your lactate threshold improved? probably with your lhr training

[@kofuzi]

That’s what I’m hoping

[@EwenThompson]

What you say in the second half of the video is what I expect will happen (it occured for me) - once you become adapted, running in the MAF zone (at least near the upper HR of that zone) becomes 'fast' and you won't want to run every day that fast. So easy day runs will be lower than MAF, perhaps 120-130 for you. Once that happens, I think it's then that polarized training can work well if you stay close to aerobic for the 10-20% of 'hard' running.

[@kofuzi]

That’s what I’m hoping for. I think I’m going to call off the audible and give it the originally planned two or three more weeks before adding in anything new

[@jordanrundell9962]

I like the idea that you are doing the polarized training. However, I think that the 10% of faster miles, shouldn't be barely faster. They need to be quite tough. Basically nothing starting with a 7. lol. That way you can really target and work the leg strength, VO2max, and lactate threshold systems. Just my opinion. Keep up the great work!

[@jordanrundell9962]

Also, one more thing, is that in Maffetone's famous yellow book, he actually speaks to the fact that once an athlete gets to a level where their MAF pace is something REALLY fast, that pace is not really sustainable for everyday training, and the athlete will in effect dial that pace back and be running at lower heart rates (MAF-10, MAF-15).

[@kofuzi]

I agree. But I just want to make sure I don’t jump back in too fast, especially with the higher mileage that I’ve been running

[@jordanrundell9962]

@@kofuzi Definitely. You know what you're doing. Happy running Kofuzi!

[@snakey973]

That's interesting...I've never tried Maffetone but been curious about it. I train polarized, easy pace about 8-9, but then twice a week put the hammer down at 6-6:30, and I've had great success with that- I bet once you throw some faster stuff in there you'll have a massive improvement, best of luck!

[@kofuzi]

that's the hope. fingers crossed

[@rickfucci4512]

I did a 6 month training routine on a hill climb at 120bpm. I had to do the rest step technique to keep my heart rate down. My max rate of ascent on at the time was around 1700 feet per hour. Doing the daily training on a 700 foot hill took me 1 hour or a rate of ascent of 700 feet per hour doing the rest step. After 6 months my rate of ascent at 120 bpm was 1800+/- feet per hour. The key was never to go over the 120 heart rate period.. it’s 20 years later and I’m revisiting the lowered heart rate training.

[@kofuzi]

can you explain to me what the rest step is?

[@rickfucci4512]

@@kofuzi in high altitude climbing , simply taking a step and stopping to rest with each step. Lots a patience to keep heart rate that low to start with..

[@COYSMike]

I'm interested in this but most of your runs are relatively low elevation, making it easier to modulate your HR. I live in a hilly area so have no choice but to be u and down all run so don't think it would work for me

[@kofuzi]

i think that certainly makes it harder to start. but i think this method is employed by many trail runners

[@FrankCunhaIII]

Low HR training is great but mixing in different paces is very smart. I work the high HR shorter workouts during the week and low HR longer workouts during the weekend. Working both ends of the spectrum works for me as an amateur multisport triathlete.

[@kofuzi]

That’s what a lot of people have been telling me. It’s also exactly what I’ve written in my Houston marathon training plan

[@FrankCunhaIII]

Good luck! Most importantly have fun.

[@roustabout4fun]

Nice video....good site....seems the fitting is off often...but I will research more....again-nice Vid! (V. best wishes for HK-Be Strong)

[@kofuzi]

Thanks

[@ksteege]

Great discussion here - I have looked into this and interestingly enough Seth also tallked about this MAF training - I dont think I could do it - being a 50 year old man coming off a year of injuries I would be down at 125 which would be really insanely slow I have been cautioned on a lot of things and am planning 2020 as a return to basics - but the doctor, pt and coach I have been talking with are really making me rethink everything (which is not a bad thing but a bit disconcerting after running for around 40 years of my life and coaching as well) ANyway thanks for the input here and I will be paying close attention as this continues

[@kofuzi]

I didn’t realize Seth had discussed it. I must have missed that one

[@ksteege]

@@kofuzi It was todays Vlog... So you just may have not caught it yet

[@kofuzi]

@@ksteege yes. just watched it.

[@its_Matt_B_]

I’m all for easy running and truly believe it’s the secret sauce to running fast, but the MAF method can’t work for everyone; people who can’t run without getting their HR too high can’t possibly benefit by walking. However, it seems like a solid program to keep peeps from running too fast at the wrong times!

[@kofuzi]

i think that people that have to start out walking don't stay walking for a long time. it's like a reboot. (and i'd also have those people double check that they're getting a solid signal from their chest strap heart rate monitors. that was a big issue for me).

[@nickclark5883]

You should watch the Floris Gierman interview with Jonathan Walton for inspiration. He's 50 and runs around 2h 30mins marathons. He also addresses your point you made about elites; when you get faster you don't stick to your MAF HR you just run at a lower heart rate. The best take away for me from MAF has been it's made me more aware of how hard my body is working. Generally speaking I think most people run their easy runs too fast, myself included, so even if I don't strictly follow MAF I still try to keep my HR under 150bpm for easy runs (I'm 33).

[@kofuzi]

i'm sure i've seen it, as i've watched them all. but i'll take another look

[@jeffbrown245]

I dont have heart rate monitor so I just breath thru nose kepping mouth shut tight, in a short time I adapted and can run at a decent pace without effort, once a week I do a short run with sprints it feels very fast, so glad I started this traing.

[@kofuzi]

That’s great

[@willclaxton9373]

I've actually been doing similar - but 80/20. 80% of my running is at MAF, then 20% at Marathon Pace. I'm testing using metathon to determine that days MP. My metathon prediction has been getting slower which is to be expected, but Elevate is saying my fitness, fatigue and form are all improving which is good (previously fitness was always increasing, but fatigue and form were gradually getting worse). I predict my metathon will start increasing soon after the initial dip has evened out. It's also very hilly around here which metathon doesn't take into consideration. MAF is frustrating at times, especially when you just want to run, but I've just turned it into a game... like can I reach that tree without the alarm going off, or can I run a whole KM without the alarm going off.

[@kofuzi]

I like games.

[@britishrocklovingyank3491]

This is great if you do polarized training. Super easy with spread out super hard, 80/20 etc. Running is more than lungs, a lot more.

[@kofuzi]

it's in my houston marathon training plan that i made back in October

[@ggreaves2448]

Personally I would stick with the low heart rate and high milage. You might not feel like it is doing anything but all those miles are going into your aerobic system and you will be able to run fast when you need to. I trained at under 125bpm at between 5.00-5.30mins per km and then did a 3:03 marathon at around 145 average bpm. If you concentrate on your aerobic system it will pay off on race day... In my opinion, it worked for me. Ive started introducing speed sessions now because I can run 4min per km at under 132bpm. That speed used to be heavy breathing time but now I'm running 3.30-3.45 per km at around 140bpm and it feels easy. I used to run out of steam at 152 bpm, now its more like 172 and running a couple of km at 3.20per km is possible too. Best thing I did last year was run a ton of mile slow and at low heart rate and once the weather improves a bit and the days are longer thats where ill be putting in most of my training again this year

[@kofuzi]

this is what i needed to hear. i know you're right. it's why i bought into this system in the first place. but i'm not sure i have enough faith.

[@ggreaves2448]

@@kofuzi i know its hard to keep the faith until you have experienced the results in a race. It sounds crazy to run faster by running slower but it worked for me and plenty of others I've seen on you tube. I think the point is that you are optimising your aerobic system by doing all those miles at low bpm. It's vital your aerobic system is in top shape if you want to run Marathons fast. If your only able to run really slow at low heart rate i guess it means your aerobic condition needs improving so you really need to do a lot of miles slow. Once you plateau on the low hesrt rate training, that's when you can introduce speed sessions because your aerobic engine has peaked so the only way to gain them is with speed sessions etc. If you want to do a speed session every couple of weeks anyway just to convince yourself it's working then so that if you want, but don't sacrifice the miles just cos your frustrsted at running slower. You'll only be running slower for a few months at the most before you naturally speed up in your aerobic zone. But irrespective of the fact your training slower, you will still race just as fast as before and probably faster even without the speed work so long as you do a lot of miles slow first, and obviously taper properly to let your legs recover fully before the race.. The other thing to work on is cadence, while your doing the slower runs try to ensure your cadence is around 180. That will make sure you will be used to that foot speed and will be a huge plus as your pace increases. Sorry, i feel like I'm going off on one now, i just don't want you to give up or get too frustrated before you start getting results

[@Harzanable]

Late to the party here but, I'm not even thinking that seriously about heart rate when I run (unless it's really high). My thought process about it is that when I first started running a 10K, my heart rate was pretty consistently high at 180 but after a year of running 10KM distance races, it went down to about 165. Once I started pushing myself a little bit at the distance, the heart rate went back up to 170+. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that for me, the heart rate will go down as you rack up the miles.

[@kofuzi]

Maybe it will maybe it won’t.

[@christopherbrand5360]

Adding strides three times a week will go a long way to improving your easy pace for the rest of your miles. Some patience is surely needed with the low HR training. Even with strides to boost speed economy, expect 6-8 weeks for it to start showing up in your results. If you do faster work besides strides, probably best to do 4-8 min intervals at faster than 5k. 15-30 min of work at that pace per week is plenty of combined with the low HR miles and some strides (4 to 12x25 seconds at your fastest smooth pace with 1-2 min easy between).

[@kofuzi]

This makes sense

[@settlers33]

I can't rap my mind around all of this. I ran very well in the past without all the technology. Including Male MN runner of the year in 98. But I'm lightly trying to figure it out now.

[@fraserp2377]

I think the main thing these more modern techniques have is the ability to reach a certain level while making it less likely to get injured. It's a lot easier on your body than what they did in the 60's and 70's constantly pushing their bodies to the limit. No one is saying there weren't some very fast talented runners in that period.

[@kofuzi]

some people, many people, don't need it. those who are naturally gifted don't need it. i'm not most people. i'm not gifted. i'm not sure i need it, but my curiosity has been piqued, and i'm going to pursue that for a while.

[@settlers33]

@@kofuzi I didn't mean to come off with any disrespect. It's just hard to keep up with all the new bells and whistles so to speak these days! I'm just a little old school still! :)

[@Amanda.c91]

have you tried nasal breathing during runs? pretty much goes hand in hand with low HR running! I love it. runners high is intense man.

[@NWRafael]

With the holidays coming up rapidly, I was wondering if you were going to do recommendation guide to buy for runners. Example for everyday running, or intermediate, etc...

[@kofuzi]

yup. i'll have a couple different videos of that type. stay tuned

[@jimduyck]

I probably had close to a 90-10 split during my peak training this summer. There was just such a difference between easy days and workout days, but easy days (where I was honing in on keeping my efforts in check), definitely felt depressing at times. Slogging through the humidity at 9:xx paces trying to keep my HR low when my workouts were 5:xx to 6:xx depending on the length of the interval...not as fun!

[@kofuzi]

that's about where i'd like to get.

[@ksrowland]

In my opinion, low heart rate training should be based on a percentage of "your" max heart rate (not an arbitrary MAF formula). I think MAF numbers work for many (including myself) because most people have relatively average max heart rates for their age. However for people with really high max heart rates for their age, MAF numbers can be off. 180-age is an arbitrary formula that works for many just like 220-age to estimate max heart works for many but not all. I think I am an average 38 year old so the formulas seem to work for me...75%x(220-38)=136.5 low heart rate training based on estimate of max heart rate. 180-38=142 MAF number is very close to that as well. These low heart rate numbers jive with my easy day pace and are backed up by my race performances (7:40/mile half marathon pace). This is why I think I am average in the max heart rate dept. I have a feeling you may have an above average max heart rate for your age. For example, If you have a max heart rate of 200 then you should probably be low heart rate training closer to 150 bmp (75% of max). I suspect this for you because we are similar age, I can run 8:50 at 140bpm but you are way fitter than me. I am around a 3:30 marathon equivalent. Have you ever thought of going to a lab and getting VO2max testing to see your true max heart rate? I feel like your low heart rate days (easy days) should be closer to 8:15 min/mile pace for a 3:05 marathoner (easy day pace based on daniels running formula tables).

[@kofuzi]

I have thought about getting a VO2 max test done. It’s on my list of videos I’d like to make. I’ve also thought about (and have had numerous people tell me about) the variability of heart rates in relation to a very simple HR formula. The way I see it, it provides an accessible and cheap starting point. Once I get a hang for it, I suspect that I will see relatively quick improvement followed by a quick plateau. That will be my signal to get more detailed and dialed in to what my body specifically needs. But for now, it’s a start

[@kloun1980]

Agree that it s good to get base miles in at a low heart rate. But, don't your legs need to train in the lactic thresh hold? If you are only going to go slow, it will effect your muscle memory and fast twitch fibers that are needed on race day.

[@kofuzi]

i think a lot of maffetone runners will incorporate some speedwork in a polarized fashion when it's race time

[@eight10man]

Very cool insights. Thanks for this video, and all the other videos. It's probably been asked many times over, if so please disregard, but as you've got a Stryd running power meter, have you ever considered doing or already have done Power-based Training..? Thanks again!

[@kofuzi]

I never really considered it as a training tool for easy running or base building. I’ve always thought of it as a way to prevent over-exertion. but perhaps that is the next experiment

[@gavinmaboeta6401]

Let us stay with Maf for till after your marathon in January 2020 as an experiment. What you think? Resist the temptation ... less is more?

[@kofuzi]

i don't have enough faith in it for that

[@mejulesyap]

17:59 nice save

[@kofuzi]

I thought I would have a nice long slide down the incline. It wasn’t as icy as I thought it was going to be.

[@bane1009]

I dont see anyone mentioning abt how the surrounding temperature can affect your running heart rate. I mean the body works harder to cool yourself down. For ppl in hot and especially humid countries, how accurate/feasible is it to start training at those heart rates?

[@kofuzi]

This is my third video on the subject and it has been discussed quite a bit in those earlier videos. Heat makes it harder to start doing this. Hills makes it harder. That’s why I picked winter.

[@tigerjoe5161]

My 1st 2 months had heat indexes at 95-105, many 15-16 minute miles, really frustrating MAF walking!

[@iberiksoderblom]

We did Long Slow Distance training in the 80's. And the principle is even older.

[@kofuzi]

it certainly is. by no means am i the first. i'm not even the first person to document their progression on youtube.

[@tonybarfridge4369]

Ib Erik Söderblom u can't do long fast training

[@iberiksoderblom]

@@tonybarfridge4369 define "fast" 😂

[@TroyorT992]

Hi Kofuzi, i wonder how do you run without glasses in marathon? With contact lens? Sorry im a beginner in running. Great video anyway

[@kofuzi]

contacts

[@tednruth453]

Stroke volume of the heart may be variable, particularly at lower heart rates.

[@kofuzi]

i'm not an expert at maffetone. i'm not a medical professional. i'm not a coach either. that being said, i'm not sure that that is a fact that makes a difference. but if you have an experimental protocol that would help me figure that out, i'm all ears.

[@tednruth453]

This factor may explain the variability in pace for a constant heart rate (HR). It's a good thing: as your heart stroke volume (SV) increases (over a training period) at your constant, low training HR, your cardiac output (CO) increases.( CO= SV×HR ) Consequently your running pace should increase! Yeeha!

[@outofoffice4757]

My experience though 300 ish miles, was very similar.

[@kofuzi]

that is what i imagine will be the case for many

[@keithh7395]

I am not a seasoned athlete, but just an older runner trying to get some form back and build endurance. I was following the MAF method and found that my distances are increasing, however, my pace is not getting any better. Maybe need more time? But I watched a video where you were commenting on the heart rate range where the HR went from bottom of the range to the top and back again quite quickly and you were finding it difficult to maintain a steady HR. I have just done a short (very wet) run with exactly the same problem, where I was going from running to almost standing still to maintain the balance?

[@billprocter942]

My 2 cents on why MAF works in which you hinted to at the end of the video. As runners most of run our easy days way to hard. MAF maximizes our aerobic development and when we run outside this zone we don't see the same aerobic benefits. To put it different terms when running easy your building a bigger engine. When you run harder your tuning that engine. All engines needs tuned but most of the time you want to build a bigger engine. Hard days hard.. easy days very easy.

[@kofuzi]

A lot of people say easy days easy SO THAT one can run their hard days hard. The difference with maffetone is that easy days aren’t the means to and end. They are the end in and if themselves

[@billprocter942]

@@kofuzi my point is no one runs their easy miles easy. Did you? People don't realize how easy 60% effort is. MAF is a good tool to get people to slow down and build the aerobic engine. At some point you should tune the engine to maximize your results, hinse the hard days. The nice things for novice runners is we can run for months before we see a plateau. I don't believe MAF is the end all (even though that's their claim) but it's another tool we can use. I don't see any elite athlete using MAF. I think that's because they already have a huge aerobic engine. The exception might be the former triathlete Mark Allen but that was when no one ran easy miles even elites.

[@flonomcflooneyloo7573]

It's easy to get caught up in looking at data, but IME, consistency and sustainability trumps everything.

[@kofuzi]

i hear you, and people say that all the time. but what if i'm consistently running harder than i should be for an entire training block? people also say, "run by feel" or "run easy". what if my perception of "easy" is a moderate effort all the time?

[@obidr]

My NYCM went very similarly to your CM race where I had severe cramping towards the end. Went from sub 7 miles to 11+ miles. Is the thought process that a stronger aerobic base will help avoid that in the future? Wondering how LHR trainings fits in avoiding that happening again.

[@kofuzi]

i think there are two ways to look at it. more strength and speedwork can help you get past it. or more aerobic work can help you get past it. i think my strength lies in high mileage aerobic work, and i want to maximize that (while also doing a bit of leg work in the gym).

[@billybbob18]

That fitness watch is enormous. It's bigger than your wrist! Lol Is that a Garmin?

[@fiveticks]

Maybe you get better results if you do this training for a longer time, some do months, if not years. My Body gives a better response to training with the lower heart rate. Lionel Sanders says in one of his Vids, he ran Marathon Speed (3hrs30min) with a heartrate of 110 :-P

[@bikeinmotion]

Well as I said in my comment absolute values have no meaning because everybody has different physiologies. It might be that for "a majority" this 180-age does work but what if kofuzi has a natural high heartrate and Lionel a very low one? It's also said that your max is 220-age and well I'm quite sure kofuzi can go much higher than that :)

[@kofuzi]

it will take longer than i currently have time for. but i will come back to it, i think

[@ezrabrooks4844]

Really good Introduction at the start of the video. I am using Fitbit, what do you think of Strava? I have not used it yet. Thanks for sharing this good information ! I am new to running.

[@ma1ist]

Strava is like the Instragram for running. It's to share your runs with other folk. Not much of a training app to analyze ur runs unless you get the premium version tho. If you purchase a GPS watch, they usually have apps that do this for you. Edit: I highly recommend strava. Just remember they're most likely selling your information.

[@jjk6949]

Appreciate the sincerity of your videos, thanks much for them, keep it up. So, when you choose your MAF as 145 (a number you are not allowed to exceed while doing Maffetone, ever) and we see for a given mile that your average HR was 144, I'm wondering how you are keeping your HR in such a narrow zone (I guess never dropping below 143, since obviously Maffetone dictates that you can NEVER go above 145). Thanks.

[@kofuzi]

I post my entire HR graph on IG

[@brandenbolt5573]

Its not possible to average 144bpm, without exceeding 145bpm quite a few times in my experience. The closest I've ever been to 145 on average, is a 143 average - where my Max was 150bpm, and saw 146,147,148 a few times too. 140,141 and if you are extremely careful - a 142 average could happen!

[@boti2305]

Kofuzi what to do in summer with these high temperatures? I can't keep up at zones 1-2 while running on easy days.

[@brunocassettari]

Very interesting stuff. What is your Stryd power zone during your low heart rate runs? Someone once said 2, which is also what I get when following the 180 formula, which is moderate and not easy (per Stryd’s own definition). What is your view on that? Did you see any significant change on Power Center‘s analytics since you started this new season? Thanks and good luck with Huston trainings moving forward!

[@kofuzi]

I’m usually in stryd zone 1. I forgot that I took screenshots of my stryd zones before I started this and after 250 miles. I’ll post to Twitter

[@brunocassettari]

kofuzi thanks a lot, please post on instagram as well of you don’t mind.

[@LuisBecerra79]

If you feel that it works, than keep doing it, but if you feel bad or frustrated or anything like that, than maybe you should change of strategy. Running is suppose to be fun, not the other way around.

[@kofuzi]

i need to stop complaining

[@daliuspang1999]

The problem I see with this method of training is it emphasis on avoiding injury. In other words, play it safest possible. Not the most bang for your bucks. It will take longer to get dividend from the work you've done.

[@kofuzi]

That’s a common critique

[@sengkangboy]

Hi. May I know what watch are you wearing ? I like the big round face! I am using forerunner 945 now.

[@kofuzi]

Polar vantage v with a stryd footpod and Suunto chest strap

[@alanross2243]

Can you comment on how slow training influences your show selection. For example heel drop, cushion, etc. and cadence. I want to try this but I can’t see doing it in shoes I use which includes Pegasus and saucony guide, and hoka arahi. Does running slow beat you up? Thanks for nice video

[@kofuzi]

Slow running does not beat you up. It is one of the primary benefits of slow running. I’ve been gravitating to high mileage shoes. Things that are more plush. I’m spending more time on feet than usual.

[@TimGrose]

I wonder if those HR numbers are working for you. You seem to be averaging around 140 of late but in Chicago Marathon you were around sub 3 pace at about 190 so presume your max is over 200. If you look at other "generic" formulae like 220-Age for max HR you would be way off as 220-40 = 180. As such generic formulae probably don't work well for you. We have a similar sub 3 goal. My "actual" max HR these days is 162 and I am (almost) 53 so 220-Age (167) isn't "miles off" even not exact. Maff for me would be 180-53 = 127 but that is actually quite high for me due to my relatively low max HR. I can often do easyish runs no slower than 8:00 pace under 120 HR and sometimes a lot better than that. So, at the moment, you are 50 bpm below even marathon effort HR. Logically I think your "rather easy" HR should be more like 150. That all said I do agree with the general plan of run easy so can run hard when you need to. I think it is about finding the right balance...

[@kofuzi]

i do think there's certainly a lot of room to really dial it in and get it perfected. but in the beginning, i like the idea of just following the general range until i get a feel for what is working. one thing to keep in mind is that my HR from the marathon is from an apple watch, and likely overstated. (someone in the comments pointed that out to me, and i think it's pretty pertinent).

[@ratherrapid]

I missed out on the goals with heart rate training--is it performance or long term health. I am also interested whether the weight training helps the running, although if u r running heart rates u may never find out, and I'd be doing weights more days per week. As a lifetime athlete now age 72 I'd guess you'd run faster at the same heart rate as fitness improves although I suspect the improvement is way too small to see this heart rate training as performance training. But for long term health it makes absolute good sense to me. Seems to me tooling along at 160+ bpm for 24 miles could be risky for heart health. Were I concerned about performance and heart rate I'd be running short much much faster than marathon pace to get heart rate at marathon pace to acceptable levels which I suspect needs to be around 150 bmp, just guessing.

[@kofuzi]

the goal is to get stronger. it's all about strength.

[@IsMiseAnthony]

I don’t think I’d have the patience to do MAF training 😂 my avg hr on “easy” runs are 160’s so I’d have to be going 10min mi for it.

[@kofuzi]

That’s exactly where I’ve been

[@arjanpetersen]

MAF training takes ~6 months to a year to get results. But if you are an endurance athlete then it is the way to go.

[@IsMiseAnthony]

Baltsu I think I just have a naturally high hR. I believe my fitness is there as I ran a 2:58 marathon in Oct.

[@tigerjoe5161]

Been running the MAF method for 5 months. I’m 49 trying to avg 132HR. Just now getting under 14 min. pace consistently on regular 7 mile daily run & sub 13 pace on track (MAF test) day. Running this slow is so difficult! How many years will it take to get back to my old 8 minute pace?? Really frustrating!

[@kofuzi]

i'm no expert in maffetone. i have some theories on why it works for some people and not others that i will discuss in a video update next week. in the meantime, i might look to ensure that you aren't maxing out over your maf number ever. i mean, sometimes, it'll crest or creep over your max, but i would avoid running a couple of "fast miles" because you've somehow banked some even lower HR miles. the other thing that you might need to do is to resort to a more finely tailored maf number. you might be one of those people where the 180 formula doesn't work.

[@tigerjoe5161]

kofuzi , thanks for the response. I think that my polar wrist based HR monitor is super inaccurate. My last 10 mile run showed my heart rate jump to 140 at 12 minute pace on my 1st mile, I knew it was off so I kept running faster each mile. At mile 5, I was around 10 minute pace and HR was 150s-160’s (and my heart wasn’t pounding)so by mile 9 I started pushing below 9 mins and HR went from 170 to 130 at 9.5 miles so I’ve come to the conclusion that wrist HR monitors are for shit. I’m getting a chest strap. I’m getting discouraged cause I’m on my 2nd HR watch. I know MAF works I’m just ready to be able to apply it to me with actual accurate results. I know it isn’t possible for me to run faster and my HR to just go down 40 BPM in a 1/2 mile.

[@WePiphany]

How did you adjust when the weather got hotter? Did you allow for higher HR or did you slow way down?

[@BleakVision]

Ha! I also tried my low heart rate training at below 145 and couldn't sustain a jog. Got sick of the walking and moved my barrier to 149. I mean four bpm can't ruin your training, or can they?

[@kofuzi]

i think it can. as i'm understanding it more and more, the way i'd think of it is: if 4bpm can't run the training, why not shoot for 141? but, i can understand the frustration. i've been there. i'm still there. if 149 is the difference between continuing or quitting this style of training, go with 149. but i suspect that it will take your body longer to progress. but as i've said many times about this style of training, i'm no expert.

[@hasellnutt]

Thx for the video. Trying to understand what your HR is ~140 at 10:00 miles? That feels unusually high for someone with your fitness level.... I’m 36 and my HR will average

[@kofuzi]

yes. at the time the video was made, about 10 minute miles at hr of 140 is about right. i'm hoping it means that i have higher upside in continuing this style of training

[@ciriciri9071]

I believe 9:27/mile is better than my 9:27/km

[@brittanywells2156]

Are you still doing the low heart training now? I’ve watched a bunch of your 2022 marathons and you are ranging around 160bpms.

[@kofuzi]

there's a presumption in the post script to your question that needs addressing. Maffetone frequently mentions that a lot of athletes are strictly low maffetone but just race frequently (or time trial as much was once per week). I understand this as meaning that they run at race effort, which, depending on the distance, is an HR that is higher than one's maffetone number. that having been clarified, I will answer your question with: yes, depending on how strict of a definition of maffetone one subscribes to

[@luigia9173]

Nice video kofuzi! Do you consider trying to use Apple Watch to monitor heart rate on your training? I hope one day you can make a video one day. Tnx

[@kofuzi]

i've had issues previously maintaining a consistently accurate HR with apple watch (and every other running watch)

[@tigerjoe5161]

Polar gave the most consistent HR.

[@tmantony5660]

Thanks too you I have also been using MAF.As for when or how long does one does stop or readjust back to normal?

[@kofuzi]

i'll let you know when i get there. i have no idea, but i think the goal is for the maf heartrate to become more of a moderate speed at that relatively same easy heart rate. if i understand it correctly, most people's bodies are stronger than their hearts. but the goal here is to flip it so that the heart can outmuscle your body.

[@tmantony5660]

@@kofuzi Thanks.Positives for me has been I have upped my weekly milage.Great channel!

[@赤道奔跑的弹你哟]

Hi Kofuzi, I’ve attempted to do the same while I’m in a tropical island I can feel your frustration especially for heart rate spike. Just curious while you’re going slow how you manage your cadence? Can you keep it in the ideal zone? Thanks

[@kofuzi]

i try not to consciously tinker with cadence or footstrike. i believe the body optimizes itself based on speed, fitness, and fatigue.

[@赤道奔跑的弹你哟]

kofuzi thank you

[@ririemarilyn]

It just doesnt work in the heat here in Malaysia.

[@kofuzi]

i can imagine the heat would be an issue

[@vinads1309]

sobering cat I feel u..🥵 my husband is tryin to train himself with this Maffetone Method & getting upset lots of time when the tracker vibrates & reminded him he needed to slow down while he was in fact walking 😆

[@ririemarilyn]

@@vinads1309 Does your husband use a chest strap or wrist tracker?

[@vinads1309]

sobering cat he wears both.. haha I know it sounds too much, but he said the difference between wrist tracker & chest one can be up to 10 points 🤷🏻‍♀️ while myself only rely on the Garmin Vivoactive 4S, don’t have enough time to nitpick 😆😅

[@ririemarilyn]

@@vinads1309 yeah.. sometimes we caught up by numbers and forgot to enjoy the run

[@hybridramper-futurearmy1160]

Bruh! 8 min per mile lol I did my first actual MAF test yesterday outdoors and let me tell you average pace was 15min/mi haha now that's slow.

[@Nonixification]

Do 7 miles at goal pace!!

[@kofuzi]

i'm not sure i could right now

[@Nonixification]

@@kofuzi Im pretty sure you can. In december you have to get some speedwork in for Houston. Its 4:16min/k pace for you, maybe for first week just do a shorter try to boost confidence.

[@TrailsToTracks]

Run slow to go fast or LSD long slow distance

[@kofuzi]

that's the idea

[@1519Spring]

You mentioned in your Chicago Marathon posts "coach", a word I've not heard since in your vids. Did you use a coach just for that event, but are now self-coached? How long were you coached and why did you quit that? You seem very uncertain now about what you are doing, and give clues like the references to 110 bpm in the audio books you're listening to, but you aren't sharing details with us about your primary sources of LHR Training info. are you relying on Maf's book, websites, a coach (seems not), past personal experience (seems not), or other? Ok to address this in future vids vs. replying here.

[@kofuzi]

Nike provided a coach for my last marathon. I could have continued with her at my own expense, but I have elected to go alone for now. If you’re looking for a bibliography or a table that I can refer to for my training plan, there isn’t one. I don’t read nearly as much as others, but I watch a lot. I listen a lot. I run a lot. I hypothesize, test, analyze, repeat. I let you all know what I’m doing and why. If you have specific questions, I’m always happy to discuss.

[@luanjot1]

I don’t really get the “it only depends on the age” bit. I mean there is people that have a 40bpm at rest and people that are at 80. Not taking this into consideration at all seems completely un-scientific. Doesn’t it?

[@bikeinmotion]

Jesús García Yup exactly

[@WhiskyMystery]

As you get older your max heart rate decreases. So the rev limiter gets lower and lower.

[@luanjot1]

Captain 3D sure but it can’t be the same for everybody as if heart rate was only dependent on the age

[@bsutton530]

If you ignore medical science, sure.

[@WhiskyMystery]

@@luanjot1 Correct. My wife at about the same age has a heart rate at least 10 beats higher than mine. But at 53 my max heart rate can only just make it to 180 if I really go to the limit on a treadmill test. At 40 I could get to 195. The best would be to calculate your own zones by measuring personal resting and max heart rates but you need to be somewhat of an expert/nerd to do this and there is some risk going to the max. The Formula just gets you ballpark numbers.

[@pauljordan6615]

This reminds of those fad diets that are based on some truth, but just take it to the extreme. Most miles should be at easy pace, but how is a runner supposed to speed up if they only work those slow twitch muscles while running and don't work their lactic threshold of VO2 max. I don't get this at all myself. I'm glad you are trying it so I can follow and see what happens though. Thank you for that. I really hope it works. I just don't see the logic. Maybe someone could respond to me and tell me what I am missing.

[@kofuzi]

I’m not the first person to go through it. Like a diet, I dont think it works if you’re doing it for instant results. I’m thinking lifestyle change. I’ll have more to say once I get a better feel for how my body responds.