Maffetone Low HR Training After 500 Miles

[@MrJermson]

How can anyone not like this man? I thoroughly enjoy all his videos. His struggles and confessions are so palpable to a working man like me, who struggle between family, career and dream. I am truly blessed and contented. Go Mike Go!

[@kofuzi]

that is a very generous compliment

[@susanwiggins6309]

Agree!

[@williamdowling7718]

Very well said. Agreed. I haven't seen many of his videos yet, but as a working father myself with dreams of improving my running, the struggle is real in terms of balancing everything.

[@justintrayweeks5875]

I agree a lot!

[@azzamalmueqly7064]

Well said Mr Jermson 👍🏻

[@jeffe.3453]

I just turned 40 myself, but I found that in my decades of endurance training for triathlons or distance running I find that my body responds better with low heart rate training both on the bike and run. It took me till recently to realize this when I applied low heart rate training for most of my training for a recent triathlon and it was the first time I ever made the top 10 for my age group and a PR for this particular course. I also didn’t get any nagging injuries or aches and pains that I usually got from previous training cycles. My body just responds better in the lower zones for most of my training.

[@Amanda.c91]

Great great feedback here!! I much prefer MAF heart rate running. Completed my first two marathons because of this style training after injuries and failures all before! Just turned 32, gotta get another marathon under my belt👊🏼

[@TheRollingBacon]

I think a lot of people need to understand that this is simply an honest take (vlog/diary) of his own experience experimenting with this kind of training, not a video advocating or discrediting it. I'm honestly interested in this myself as a 25 year old (young but not so young) runner thinking of ways to meet/surpass the Boston qualifying standard, so thanks for sharing Mike!

[@RunningOtaku]

A 3% improvement in your pace at a given heart rate in just 2 months is pretty impressive, especially because you were in shape when you started. Love those 80-mile weeks too!

[@kofuzi]

I’ve been known to cherry pick data. So hopefully the numbers I’m looking at are representative.

[@GabGonzalezPH]

Ko I stumbled upon this episode while researching for training videos. It was nice to see a glimpse of your past which helped set you up for your current success!

[@Backtothefutureradios]

Good video! Very useful and honest, no hype! I agree, elites are born and developed....Im not one, I have been running 40 years....no pain..no gain plan....just the way it was in the earlier days...Im now 65 years old. Im not going to have the times I had when I was 25...Fact!... my goal now is stay active...try and be as healthy as I can, IMO...be able to keep moving without injury. I have recently started MAF training (2 weeks) and adjusted my HR upward, just to be able to get out of my truck and move ( exaggeration) but, a maf of 115 doesnt allow much running, mostly walking. So, I moved it to 130... my old training pace was 10:45/mi.....now with maf...14:50ish. The old method of running from the day said, run 80% slow and 20% fast.....well, even when folks ran their slow miles (which were recommended 1:30-2:00 min slower) they wouldnt do it, it was too slow.....so most people train too fast all the time. Even if a person runs at lets say 8:00 min/mi, their slow run would need to be at 10min/mi. Ok, now lets do that 10 min pace for 8 mi....you maintain that pace....yet your HR will increase after 2-3 mi....Lets say initially you start with a HR of 130....after 2 mi....135 bpm....then, 138 bpm....then 142 bpm...when at the end, you still have the 10 min/mi pace but ur HR is at say 150 bpm....your aerobic system was not trained as efficient as it could have been.....when the HR monitor came along, thats when it was possible to train at a constant HR...not pace.....by using the maf method, it forces one to run slower while keeping the HR in the proper range.....Ive read the Big maffetone book, thats what has got me started.....but, it leaves the program up to you. It gives you the tools to tailor your own plan based on your abilities. I believe your approach is absolutely correct, there is nothing in the book or program that says all runs have to be in the maf range after the base period.....you are correct in adding some faster runs for your prep for the marathon if you are planning on trying to run faster than your normal maf pace...you must add some periods of race pace to “practice” physically and mentally race pace. I have seen improvement in my resting HR in 2 weeks of the slower running, also, Im not as tired and feel fresher after my workouts. I subscribed, I want to follow your progress. In my experience, you are correct that everyone is different and they must adapt each training program for themselves. We humans want a success program printed out, that if we follow it....we will run faster! Too often....we try to follow someone else’s plan and get injured! Good luck and keep evaluating your training data.....my experience has been most people are not consistent with their training and train too fast....Take Care-Larry

[@daniellockyer]

It definitely works. I recently ran a 1:30:17 HM off 3 dedicated months of Zone 2 training, not getting anywhere close to race pace during that time. I also ran a 55km ultra 4 weeks prior. The massive endurance base you can get from low-HR training is incredible.

[@kofuzi]

i'm hoping that's where this is all going for me

[@daniellockyer]

@@kofuzi I'm focussing more on Zone 2 training than Maffatone numbers, but it's all the same. Actually, my Maf number would be higher than my Zone 2 limit

[@mintheman7]

Mark Allen was one of Maffetone's first students, and he is about as famous as one can get in triathlon. Don't know if he is well known in the running community, but the "Iron War" between him and David Scott in 1989 was one of the key events that propelled the Hawaii Ironman into popular consciousnesses. He also won the Iron championship 6 times, so obviously MAF works, even at the most elite level. He could maintain 5:28 min/mile pace at his MAF HR of 150bpm. When I first learned about MAF earlier this year, I dismissed it. But the more I learned about it, the more sense it made, especially based on all the scientific evidence. Now I have came to the realization I have been training wrong my whole life, and never spent the time to build a solid aerobic base/engine. I think the reason MAF gets such a strong reaction and push back from some people is because they couldn't get over their ego.

[@kofuzi]

I think it’s something more basal than that. The ego theory makes sense for people who have tried it. But the most vociferous complaints seem to come from those who won’t even try it once. I was listening to a personal trainer podcast once, and they talked about how kettle bell people sometimes don’t get along with cross fit or hiit people. But at the end of the day, there are many ways to see results, and the success of one approach doesn’t necessarily imply an inadequacy of another.

[@rotary7372]

Mark used MAF as a base and in the months leading up to Hawaii he did super hard workouts weekly.

[@godrakull]

Most of my workouts are HR 2, below 142 ppm. June 9: 5K, 9:12 min / km at 145 ppm. July 4, same circuit at the same time, 6.5 k, 8:55 m / km at 132 ppm. MAF does work and a lot for beginners like me. I am very happy to have seen this video on time.

[@peterstone8540]

“I don’t care what the elites do!” I love it! Nicely said!

[@kofuzi]

thank you

[@stu517]

After running 3 hm at a consistent 1:54 time i switched to complete low HR for the HM i ran this past Saturday. I did no speed work and crosstrained with reformer Pilates. I ran 1:51:09 on a hilly course and had something left at the finish. That was after 2 months of LHR training but boosting mileage from 38 to 45 per week. I actually found the training enjoyable. I guarantee I will train this way for the spring races. Good luck Mike. I hope it pays off for you as well.

[@toobigforu346]

ur telling me u only run 45 miles per week training for a half marathon?

[@akiratablet2281]

@@toobigforu346 at the start of this year I trained 2 months at 30 miles per week and did a Half marathon in 1:39:40 in a flat course (and i dont feel "gifted" at all). In my opinion 45 miles weeks are more than enough

[@maulstar1]

Thomas Paulson douche bag comment 👍

[@maulstar1]

Thomas Paulson no problem.

[@mikemosby8000]

Do you think if you boosted mileage to 45 AND did speed work you would have been even faster?

[@TheRunningRRT]

I’m with you old man! I just turned 50 and I want to get faster!. I did my first MAF run today. I plan on building my aerobic base during the coming months. I probably won’t be able to run another marathon till next year at this time, family constraints and logistics. I fell just a little short in my 2nd marathon 4.75 minutes shy of a BQ. Your content is great and look forward to seeing you break the 3 hour mark!

[@alexnasser4483]

Hi kofuzi i am from brasil 50 years old made in january ....i had a huge problem with ordinary methods because my trainers use to put a lot of speed and minimum slow pace volum....so I decided to do Mafetone 2 months ago ....and so far besides frustration of being 2 min slower per km of my regular confy pace i have zero injuries on tendons and knees and i reduced 2 to 3 kg racing fatburn 95% of my practices...remember i am 50 ...on MAF i have to pace 130 ....its insane but I am doing it ...and in 2 months i already reduced 20 to 30 sec per km ...which is amazing.....i will stick to it using the covid quarentine because i dont have any race plan till later this year ...i can keep posting my progress here as i dont i tent to speed up soon ...i will be STRONG to my goal to have a much better endurance reducing injuries and frustration to not get faster on races...Cheers to runners in this group Alex from Brasil

[@Dalley22]

When I finally broke the 3 hour marathon its because I finally incorporated speed workouts, hills and intervals into my plan. Needed that to get my legs to turn over faster since I had the length already in my training plan.

[@purduetom90]

Same here… I got a good coach that knew how to structure my training incorporating all aspects, but the focus was the aerobic base

[@topoisomerace]

Regardless of the validity of MAF, there is no denying how helpful those 80+ mile weeks are going to be. I am really excited to follow your Houston adventure. If your mental game is right on point, and you get great weather, you have a realistic shot at this.

[@kofuzi]

i'm not sure about that. i think confidence is a big part of the mental game, and it's something i lacked for chicago. and it's something i'm not sure i'll have for houston

[@Kurgish]

I am running all my long runs below 144 since November 2019 and in that time I went from almost 9min/km to currently 6:55-7:00min/km on flatter terrain and it still feels like I am not working at all. Compared to you I am not running at all though. Just one long run (usually 12+k), one brick run (after long bike session, mostly also below 144) and one speed run (high intensity intervals)...so I run only like 20-25k per week most of the time. So keep it up, it's just a long way.

[@kofuzi]

it is, indeed

[@johnsieczkowski5924]

After 500 miles of LHR training your pace per mile dropped by roughly 20 seconds? With your running history, do you feel this would not have happened if you were doing your normal training for those 500 miles? I think once an athlete has plateaued, that's really when you can say XYZ change in their training had direct results. Until then it's hard to say definitively unless there are some incredible results one way or the other. I'm still new to running, and simply by adding 500 miles in the timeframe you did, I'm going to get faster. The other part of adding miles is you need to be healthy and injury free so if LHR training allows you to stay injury free then from that respect it's legit for sure.

[@markfalkingham590]

I’m an old dude (55 1/2) and I’ve been speaking with a coach who works with this method so I’ve been keenly watching and listening to your progress using this method. I find it interesting and you’re right, many people are training using this method and they are running. Sub 3 hours so I think it’s valid. Thank you for the great information

[@robertbausa1]

Great thoughts here! I went MAF in July after several injuries as a novice, older (50) runner. I can definitely say it has helped me stay healthy and I’ve become stronger and “faster”. I’ve seen a solid 10% improvement. As a fairly new runner, 2 years now, some is obviously just time/mileage on feet. Also, every “coach” I’ve listened to talks 80-90% aerobic miles, so MAF really isn’t radically different in my opinion, especially for the majority of us on the more recreational side of this sport.

[@kofuzi]

That’s what I think. It defines “easy”. But people have very strong reactions to it, for some reason

[@Chemamun]

@@kofuzi currently reading the book "80/20 running" (80% easy/20% hard) based on Arthur Lydiar´s philosophy of training in the 60´s. Nowadays they call it polarized.training...but nothing new under the sun. This approach seems quite reasonable

[@alchemist_one]

Just from my person experience, I'd strongly recommend taking an easy week with 30-25% reduced distance at least once a month

[@kofuzi]

even on a low HR training plan? in terms of wear and tear, even relatively high mileage weeks still feel like cutback weeks to me.

[@moblix1764]

kofuzi I cut down as much as my legs needs to in order to recover and let my legs adapt to the mileage

[@TheTorsan]

Late comment but I agree on this one. Taking a week "off" is important. Especially if you run (train) a lot. It`s a normal concept among cross country skiiers, and also the top runners. Just to let the body adapt and improve.

[@victormanuelsanchez8153]

Kofuzi! You seriously motivate me to be a better runner! Never stop making informative videos!

[@kofuzi]

I will do my best

[@shaynefrancischristineeckh244]

Hey Michael. Just thought I'd give you an update how my low HRZ training has been going since Chicago Marathon, where I ran a 2:53. I had two weeks off from running, and have been slowly building up mileage, so I'm not doing the same amount of Km's as you at this point. Last week was 116km's, this week should get close to 130km's. I've only done 530km's so far, as opposed to your 500 miles, so a slow build, but I should crack the most km's I've ever done in a week this week, and keen to keep forging ahead to try and accomplish a 100 mile week. My first HRZ 2 workout in this block (my coach has 7 HRZ's, and HRZ 2 is 132-142 bpm) was at a 5:17 min/km pace @ 144 bpm average, and then today (Week 7), 4:39min/km @ 140 bpm average. Every workout is targeting that HRZ 2, and feeling really good running 7 days a week with no rest days. Also, I am 46, only been running marathons for 5 years, and will be heading to London Marathon to represent Australia in my age group at the Wanda Age Group World Championships. Keep on running, and keep on with the videos. Love your work.

[@guitarman7575]

Impressive results 👍

[@shaynefrancischristineeckh244]

@@guitarman7575 Thank you:)

[@Mark-xw3tj]

Really appreciate your message Shayne as I'm in a very similar position - been focusing on a lot of MAF miles in current build up to a spring marathon - targeting 2:39 so similar pace to you, and I'm also 46 (and Australian BTW, but permanent HK resident so hope to represent them at the next Age Group Worlds). Good luck in London - I'm keen to see how the whole event goes given it's the first one. BTW, re MAF, I found that I got better results by targeting 130 and below (max 134). Can generally manage 4:45kms now at 130 or below. I was previously allowing HR to go to 140 and found that it led to less improvement (ironically). Anyway, long reply but thanks for your message, and all the best!

[@shaynefrancischristineeckh244]

@@Mark-xw3tj, super impressive target to be aiming for 2:39! I would be hoping to be aiming for that in 2021, but I've got a bit of work to do from my 2:53. Yes, Age Group World Championships will be very interesting, and I'm so looking forward to it. Thanks for the feedback re: MAF and Heart Rate Zones. I'm not doing true MAF training, just HRZ 2 workouts. My Coach Eric Orton has 7 custom HRZ's, arrived at by doing a 20 minute time trail and a 1 mile time trail. The zones then get worked out by the HR response from these tests. I usually do these tests at least once a year to update my HRZ's. You're getting a good pace at 130 or below, so that is a great result! Great to chat, and good luck with trying to represent HK at the next Age Group World Championships:)

[@andrewthomas917]

@@shaynefrancischristineeckh244 Impressive results! What % of your MHR is your zone 2 training? I've been using a 5 zone system and struggle to find what a proper zone 2 should be based on % of max HR

[@riccardofala]

Very good video and with great content as usual!!! One of the best running channel in my opinion. Thanks Kofuzi!

[@kofuzi]

Thanks so much for watching!

[@jsilvapereira714]

I'm using this method of training for a 125k road race next four months ,and I'll say personally it's amaizing !!!

[@kofuzi]

i ran my first 50k and then a 30 mile run, training like this. i feel like this method really helps with building a solid base while minimizing risk of injury

[@ricardod123]

I've been using a low heart rate approach for the past month or so and my body is really enjoying the lack of niggles and injuries. I ran a 1:48 half on sunday and it was so comfortable so I fully endorse this approach! It's making my runs more fun. I'm taking different routes that I wouldn't of used before because the terrain would've been too slow.

[@kofuzi]

I’m not sure I’d call it more fun, but I am pleasantly surprised at how not-fatigued and how not-beat up I feel.

[@ricardod123]

@@kofuzi I saw some Canadian geese on a 9 miler today and had the chance to slow down and take some pictures; that's where the fun is. Dont get me wrong, hitting that lactate threshold and getting great times is fun too =) Thanks for making this video anyways.

[@gokiwi2642]

Good video Michael, yeah interesting method of training, I found in my own training is when I added one long slow run a week with heart rate around 145bpm doing that for around 3-4 months I noticed the biggest improvement ever in my race times, I think when you do run a sub 3 hour marathon it will feel easy for you, because your body steadily builds a awesome ton of base milage fitness & endurance, I don’t believe what you were saying about genetics, & your not old I’m 56 & feel like I’m just getting started haha 😂

[@Zanrok]

Good stuff. Appreciate the experiment and am really curious how Houston goes. Also excited to see your first speed day after this!

[@settlers33]

I'm so glad you explained this method as I had mentioned in the past. I'm not super techy! Thank's so much.

[@kofuzi]

I hope I made sense

[@dyla12116]

I've been doing this for about 150 miles now in high heat and I've noticed that I started at 10 minutes for my MAF max and now I'm in the mid to high 9s on hot days. Very cold days I can stay in the 8s and have close to my MAF max. Pretty neat stuff and saves my knees

[@johnsands578]

I enjoyed your video. Hopefully there are more. I started MAF training and am 1.5 months into it. I hadn’t heard about not lifting. I’m 57 so 123 HR is painfully slow. 15 minute miles. Mafetone said in a podcast that 2 hours is the max running you should do. If longer runs required he recommended longer walk warm ups and cool downs. I can’t imagine with your high miles you are able to stay within that guideline.

[@stefanwagner1841]

Great video Kofuzi! I've been following you on strava and have been curious of your thoughts. My thought is that an aerobic base like this will be so beneficial. Good luck!

[@kofuzi]

i think it will be beneficial as well. but will it be beneficial enough? who knows

[@stefanwagner1841]

@@kofuzi Yeah I'm in the same boat in running a sub 3. It's a challenge.

[@srivatsansathyamurthy8736]

Awesome video like always. As a beginner runner who started the maf journey around the same time as you, I eagerly follow you here and on Strava. It is very inspiring. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@kofuzi]

I hope your training is going well!

[@vuongluong3327]

I’m 39 and started running recently. My path is similar to yours, however I got a long ways to catch up. I’ve been on MAF for about two months. I also am concerned about not being able to increase my pace. Love your videos! Keep the updates coming.

[@illogik]

Vuong Luong I don’t do MAF per se (never heard of it really), but what I do with my try runs is I run at a nice easy pace for a few weeks until my body adapts to it and it becomes relatively easy to the point where I’m not stressed while running. At that point I will pick up the pace a little and basically repeat the process. Naturally my run time will go down doing this. I’m not sure if this is the most efficient way but it does work for me and I dummy consider myself a competitive runner at all.

[@brunocassettari]

Definitely inspiring. I have switched my mid season “fastest mile” training to easy runs only. I like how you dare to try things and add your own flavor to them. We are all different humans and need to adapt to things made by others, regardless of intentions and studies... Now, I have to ask, which is your favorite shoe for these slow, and mainly loooong runs (so far)??

[@andrewthomas917]

The ON Cloudflows are amazing from my experience

[@6888gomez]

2:39 Richmond marathon on a 60 mile average week running mostly easy runs sub 135 HR

[@kofuzi]

Incredible

[@marksummers6903]

Emmanuel Gomez I know I’m late to this conversation, but you are talented. I train harder than you for about the same performance, and I know a lot of people who train WAY harder than me and they struggle to break 3:00. Talent matters

[@cloudsurgery]

You are comparing apples and pears. Performance is not linked to just volume. There are many factors affecting performance such as weight, physiology, resting heart rate,...

[@placeborhizomes6708]

What's worked for me is Zone 2 running for my base period with one faster day a week for turnover. I've been doing it for 5 months and my Zone 2 pace is slowly coming down. When I start training for a race, the ratio will change to 60% easy, 40% speed. I've noticed it's easier to hold faster paces for longer.

[@kofuzi]

that makes sense to me

[@paulparrish9693]

I have not been a runner until I stumbled across this concept listening to Dr. Peter attia and Dr. Inego San Milan discuss mitochondrial health. The discussion is technical and intriguing. Dr. San Milan worked early in his career with endurance cyclist in Europe. He made the point that most elite cyclist use LHRT for 80% of their training. They also agreed that it was the best method for those that are metabolically sick. I would say that Tour de France cyclist are good examples of this method working for elite athletes.

[@namits3775]

Very interesting to hear your progress. I'm trying MAF and certainly improving over last 6 weeks. Will see how it improves over next 6 weeks. Certainly weekly mileage is growing and becoming easier (75km). Look forward to your next update.

[@kofuzi]

I’ve never felt so good running so many miles

[@Colt-ii4qn]

I just started this kind of training and it is definitely something that works also it is easier to stick with. It’s great 👍

[@iPivo]

I was on the treadmill starting my second week of MAF style training when this video came out, so it was an interesting thing to watch. You, along with Seth James DeMoor inspired me to give it a try. It is interesting to see your results after 500 miles because they are the kind of improvements I’m looking for. On my “fast days” my Garmin estimates a VO2 of 46 while on my slow days it estimates a VO2 of 44. I translate this to “I am way less efficient at a slower pace than at faster paces”, so if training slowly will allow me to match my slow VO2 to my fast VO2 that will be a win!

[@piotrpoliwka1148]

I have the same - my paces vs HR zones are not proportional, I have a polar watch and reported running index is lower on slow runs

[@ThatFlowState]

No, that's not how VO2max works. Your VO2max isn't different just because you run slow. It does decline if all you do is slow running but not within a few days. What you are seeing is probably due to how the algorithm works, it requires high intensity workouts for the prediction. You can read about it on the Firstbeat website.

[@iPivo]

Florian K, I am saying the algorithm estimates different VO2s for different intensities probably because of variance in my running efficiency. I am seeing a disconnect between how well I can do my series of 400s and 800s, and how well I can do my long runs and as a consequence the algorithm estimates different levels of fitness. And I am doing this analysis over time, this is a trend that has been going on for a while. Given that I want to focus on improving my running at lower paces and lower heart rate, so my performance is more stable across different paces.

[@ThatFlowState]

@@iPivo Hard to say where exactly the "error" occurs but perhaps reading looking at the Firstbeat whitepaper could be of interest to you. Basically the algorithm needs a variety of intensities for reliable predictions. The disconnect between your intervals and long runs can be manifold and doesn't necessarily be your running economy (muscle composition, mental game, strength etc come to mind).Anyway, good luck figuring it out many happy miles. assets.firstbeat.com/firstbeat/uploads/2017/06/white_paper_VO2max_30.6.2017.pdf

[@piotrpoliwka1148]

@@iPivo That is exactly what my findings are - if we are worse at slower paces vs algorithm no doubt based on more advanced runners. It tells me i need to put in work into lower pace and better economy of running as this will ultimately make us faster. If we manage to flip that coin and get better Running Index or VO2max esitmate at lower paces - I bet this will have massive effect on top end speed in races vs current abilities

[@motivationtheoryrunning]

As an ultra runner I have put in lots and lots of long slow miles to build endurance, I have run 20 hours as a longest race time...on very technical trails. I was a sprinter in high school an only ever ran about a 22min 5k, 44min 10k, 1:40 half and 4 hour marathon (so I am not gifted at all) before I switched to ultras because I can run for a very long time. I got cough up in running slow a lot, but I did run by heart rate, with lots of hill repeats. This is all very interesting to me...I need to look into the science a little more. Thanks for this breakdown.

[@errgo2713]

Your ongoing reviews of this method is much appreciated! I'm still sticking with it (2nd month now) and I feel the same: enough progress, however slight, to warrant persisting. The big plus overall is the recovery time afforded: I can run everyday -- despite a mending achilles -- rather than resting between days, like I used to. The only "setback" now is that I just started using a Polar H10 monitor, which reset my MAF pace back a month. But given that I've already decided to up my commitment to this for 4 months, it's no big deal. Best of luck to you in your training! Ps. you don't mention any of the dietary or stress reduction aspects of Maffetone training in your reviews; it's a big part of the methodology. If you chose not to practice those aspects maybe you could discuss why in your next review.

[@fernandogoni2395]

I love your humble approach towards becoming better!! upwards bro you got it!!

[@kofuzi]

One day at a time

[@duganator9]

Just found your channel and started the low hr training too. You're awesome, keep up the great content. I signed up for my first marathon in March so I'll be following you closely.

[@kofuzi]

Thanks for watching! Good luck with your marathon!

[@huh714]

Hang on there a second, your 40! Tought you were like 20 bro

[@kofuzi]

Yup. #thisis40

[@adoboFosho]

Nah put him near an actual 20 year old Asian it's like night and day 😂

[@christianbaird8800]

13 miles around that windy track sounds brutal. Props to you to be able to not go crazy running in circles that long.

[@kofuzi]

it was mind numbing enough that i had a hard time counting to four

[@dcutl]

I used the Polar Training program which uses low heart rate training for 5Ks, 10Ks, and worked up to 16K races. I eventually completed a half marathon and then two full marathons using this low heart rate philosophy. My times are about 4 1/2 hours, but at 55 years of age I am pretty happy just finishing. I think low heart rate training really helped my stamina.

[@kofuzi]

That’s great to hear!

[@JohnHarryShaun]

Think you touched on it a little, but I believe, the pros already train the mAffetone way by default through their super fitness. They can run at massively different paces compared to us normal people. When they run a slow for them pace they have a ridiculous low heart rate. They have got to a MAF fitness level, we are striving for.

[@atahualpaarias1840]

I find that LHR training is more enjoyable, less pain, less stress about hitting times and such. As an 800m runner, the recovery runs are sometimes the most relaxing workout of the week

[@MrRennieFrumpkin]

Hi Kofuzi, it’s been interesting to watch you do the MAF training. Think the extra mileage will definitely help. What would be great to see is if a hybrid low HR approach (80/20) would work as well as, if not better, than pure Low HR - re. Average runners doing great marathon times on just MAF - that’s definitely true but the question is how much quicker/slower would they be if they did 80/20? good luck with you’re next phase 👍

[@M20-z4j]

check this out. extramilest.com/blog/

[@tractorguy9798]

Really great vide that got profound at the 20:45 mark. I'm 43. Same struggles.

[@wayfaringronin]

This really works. I've been doing it for a month. Mine is modified for me however. I do speed work three times a week. When I first started running I was running 12 min miles and now I'm down to 9:40 min miles. This week I saw the largest improvements at 9:11 per mile. I think it's due to the speed work I've been doing. The Maff method really helped with recovery and building a strong aerobic base.

[@ByanGwok]

Believe me or not, I am about 4 years younger than kofuzi. I got asthma, which according to MAF, I should have run 140bpm. I normally run an hour easy run average 6min./km pace at about average 130bpm which is lower than MAF suggested. Instead of running slowerer towards the end of the run, I increase to 140bpm at the end of the run from sub 120bpm at the first 2km. I feel this progressive speed is more natural by perceive effort. And I do believe at least add a 20min. temp. run once a week is necessary. Another interesting thing I aware that I am almost running same speed and heart rate as kofuzi at the 14xbpm but I cannot break 21min. 5k. Whereas kofuzi did sub 20min. 5k. which is incredible. I believe he has more room to lower down his heart rate at the aerobic zone.I expect he should have achieved 5:20min./km pace of his current MAF effort for a low 19min. 5k runner. If he continue the low heart rate training for another 6 months, I would say he should be able to achieve this.

[@kevindoane7656]

So the question I have is, for this training block for your upcoming marathon, do you feel the maffatone training was more or as affective as a 80/20 training block? Based on your fitness now, do you feel the MAF method has produced fitness as efficiently as an alternate training block would have? Thanks for all your reviews and testing/research you have done, it has been a great follow!

[@chef51280]

Really enjoying the content Kofuzi, just ordered my heart rate chest strap. Ive tried MAF before but gave up, now being injured AGAIN!! I’m switching back, thanks for the inspiration.

[@kofuzi]

I hope you can stay healthy! Get well soon!

[@plain-bagel]

Good luck! Low hr training has kept me injury free, which aside from the endurance benefits, is a more significant reason to do it for me.

[@xfitgirl77]

Thanks for these videos. I’m fascinated by the MAF methodology, but at this point I’m pretty much still a skeptic. I’m super curious how this is going to work out for you. Keep em coming!!

[@johann5924]

Interesting talk, I started running 4 months ago, mostly doing low heart rate training. This improved my endurance and heart rate, but I discovered one major weakness: my ability to use oxygen / vo2 max. I hope including some high intensity runs will help me with that.

[@psycheout4733]

If you're going to go Maffetone you simply need to ignore pace and trying to hit specific numbers in both pace and HR. Go ahead and record it but don't even look at your data for weeks. Your HR will drift during your efforts regardless as not only as you going to be using different fuel sources internally, your hydration state along with basic fatigue or even environmental factors like wind, core or external temps or just grade, or just a .5% grade change or maybe a fatigue based change in gait where you very gradually start losing control of your smaller stabilizer muscles... You're just adding more variables of anxiety, over analysis which basically forces your HR in different directions. If you can't help but keep looking at your watch simply close your mouth and breathe through your nose during the entire run and put the watch away. This forces you to be on a reduced oxygen uptake level and is likely very close to your general MAF range in general. As for your understanding of muscle fiber types and how to train them you really need to go back to square one and also quit using the leg curl machine. Get your feet on the ground and eventually upgrade to stability balls and force your body to use the same smaller stabilizer muscles and core strength that you likely fry fastest while running.

[@kofuzi]

My current watch face during activity shows HR, elapsed time, and time of day (so I can know if I’m running late to run commute to pick up the kids). I have no idea what the paces are until afterwards.

[@psycheout4733]

@@kofuzi There's an argument elapsed time is too much information. As you know your routes well enough you can derive your general pace by time to landmarks. But if you're truly ignoring pace and not calculating it out in your head you're okay. Though again you need to relearn or reverify your muscle type information and start adding instability into your drills instead of hopping on locked down machines.

[@guitarman7575]

This your best video in my opinion 👍👍 I am sure you will see the positive results in your race in Houston. As already said I also follow the MAF method. my PB is one of hundreds or thousands evidences. I fully agree MAF might be not applicable for elites, but for SuB3 definitely it is. Keep the excellent work. Already curious about your further improvements. 😀😀😀

[@kofuzi]

Thanks so much for watching and for your support!

[@nathaliec7330]

i notice that on your strava that you continued with the low HR so good for you to stick to it cant wait to see the progress

[@kofuzi]

hopefully, this is all part of a productive trend

[@liamb5791]

Intro music is 'low impact - brendom moeller.' Quite fitting.

[@fireiselia7939]

Thank you for sharing a track workout. It is hard to find a safe road to run. By sharing this video it confirmed, I should enjoy too.

[@kofuzi]

I typically dislike the track, but it is a useful tool

[@rhoehn24]

Well thought out and explained, thanks for sharing.

[@brokenfreddy1262]

Keep thinking about your journey..elite runners are really not like the rest of us..joy the running for what it is for you..for me is the joy of being has fast as I can be in my age group 10% of milage at 170 HRT and be the 140 HRT 90% time..over time I think you will be stronger and enjoying the results ..it's good to see you are having a good time trying new things

[@TooBeaucoup]

I just started MAF training in late September and are looking forward to breaking 3 hrs in the marathon in the spring of 2022. I'm currently averaging a 7:40 mile on my longer runs which are about 10-12 miles at 140 hr and it feels pretty smooth. I'm wondering if I should be running at a lower hr to improve my performance. Keep up the good work.

[@kofuzi]

If you’re running 7:40/mi at 140bpm at age 40, I think you’re in very good position to run sub 3. I think a high mileage training plan with just a small bit of speed work should get you there.

[@TooBeaucoup]

@@kofuzi thanks bro. Keep up the good content.

[@TooBeaucoup]

@@kofuzi just a quick update on my MAF training. I ran a half marathon time trial on Christmas eve and came in at 1:27. All my training has been at 145 bpm running 50 miles a week.

[@AlexRochette]

Nice video. Thank you. At 5:20, you mention the Tanda predictor, so I went to try it. I recently ran a 18:30 5k on 30 mpw and I entered those values: the Tanda prediction is 21:46 for a 5k and 44:16 for a 10k (I already run 6 miles tempo runs under 40 minutes so that doesn’t check out either). What am I missing?

[@kofuzi]

so you ran a 18:30 and then entered 30mpw. at what pace did you have for your miles per week?

[@AlexRochette]

I averaged 7:58 in the week I used. I alternate a speed workout and a tempo workout that average 7:10-7:20 and the rest at about 8:05-8:15 average.

[@kofuzi]

And what were your paces going into the 18:30? And how old are you? My understanding is that Tanda is less accurate at the far ends of the age spectrum

[@kofuzi]

Also, I think tanda likes a 4 week average or an 8 week average. I think plugging in numbers from one week (and not sure where in your training cycle that week falls) will provide a skewed result

[@chrisj8844]

I’ve been doing HR training only on my medium- long runs. Using a hr chest monitor. I’ve gone from running 8 miles running at 135 bpm at 7:40 mile pace. Roll on a few weeks...now running the same 8 miles at 135 bpm at 7:20 mile pace👍 (I’m 45yrs (180-45=135)) It’s like this sort of training has taught me how to control my HR more. You can checkout my Strava under the same name.

[@kofuzi]

that's nice. i'd love to be at the point where maffetone HR is 7:20/mi

[@chrisj8844]

kofuzi I was previously running on feel and 40 mile weeks but always felt tired and picked up niggles! Since cutting my miles to 30 and only running 4 days week I feel great and my Achilles tendinitis has almost gone. My week normally consists of approx 3 x 8 miles (Maffetone) and 1 x endurance track speed session. I found that my endurance has improved so much from running 8 miles rather than 4 miles over 2 days. Currently setting PB’s all over the place😁. With the HR training really try and concentrate on your heart rate, you can learn to control it to a degree. Another tip, 30 mins before my runs I take 1/4 teaspoon (don’t take to much or it will give you the 💩) of bicarbonate soda with water/juice.....slows down lactic acid build up, you should read about it. Also checkout my strava👍

[@nurlewis]

That is some amazing results and great speed with limited weekly mileage. I looked at your Strava and those are some impressive runs. Have you been training for a long time? I'm a new runner training for HM following Greg McMillan plan through Garmin coach. It was the low HR training that got me hooked with running initially. I'm Nuruddeen Lewis on Strava. Any tips for a new runner?

[@chrisj8844]

DJ Deen Thanks. I used to run when I was a teenager but gave up when I was 17. (800m 2:00, 1500m 4:07, 10 miles in 58 mins and was the southern country schools XC champion....and then gave up!!!) I only started running again when I was 43. In that time a had 3 Achilles’ tendons that stopped me from running for 6 weeks at a time and various other niggles. I’m now 45, It’s only in the last 7 months that things are going in the right direction. Just learnt from my mistakes and the current training that I’m doing just works for me. Good luck with your training, happy to give advice👍

[@chrisj8844]

DJ Deen I’ll have a look at your strava👍

[@Richard5481]

Another fantastic video. You're an inspiration as a fellow 'old dude' I think maff might be the way for me to marathon train.

[@kofuzi]

I’m not sure I like it. But it seems like good medicine at this point.

[@samueljamespillar]

great video. nice to hear that MAF is working for you. -20 secs is massive. 90/10 approach sounds fine to me, even phil maffetone says to introduce speed work after a while.

[@kofuzi]

I know. A lot of people overlook that part, or rather, they don’t get that far into it.

[@samueljamespillar]

kofuzi yeah man! Rooting for you! Definitely got a 2:49 in you dude

[@ckokomo808]

Definitely agree with “keeping your strength your strength and hone weaknesses over time”

[@kofuzi]

thank you for your support!

[@ckokomo808]

kofuzi I’ve grown to really love your channel. Seeing your growth, perseverance, and dedication to low HR training is t easy but worth it in the long run. All the HIIT style trainings seem to work short term, which if that’s your goal great! But for long term, allowing for the heart, lungs, muscles to adapt is best. Thanks for sharing your life and creating such a wonderful community.

[@Hector-dc8km]

I am looking forward to your future results.

[@kofuzi]

me too. but it's going to take multiple marathon cycles

[@GokuRunnerV0]

I want more podcasts of low heart rate. Extramilest is great but I want more!!

[@kofuzi]

i could go for more, as well

[@tomrunsworldwide4117]

New to your channel and liking it, esp with the Chicago shots and since we've run the same majors. Are you still using this training style and how has it worked out for you?

[@kofuzi]

I would say yes but with race specific training when races are upcoming. others would probably say no

[@wayneharrison2358]

Nice video. Arthur Lydiard had a similar philosophy in the 1960's. Coached a few athletes to gold medals at the Rome and Tokyo Olympics. Hope your methodology gets you the results you are after.

[@kofuzi]

maffetone knew lydiard, from what maffetone says.

[@hajosnorveg2053]

For transition work one could use HADD approach (toothpaste style) weekly one hour of easy tempo @155 HR (if your base aerobic is 140-145) 30-60min of middle tempo @165HR + fartlek day ( a few 100-200-300-400or 500meters bursts @HM to 5K pace this time HR is not important for fast parts,BUT one can use it to see the easy recovery jogs between to sink the HR to 135-145) this fartlek is about 1500-3000m (if you add the fast parts together) hill work can be added in this day to mix too + weekend long run 135-145 HR for 90min + 30min @155-165. After this transition one can really polarize with 2 quality /week,one either long intervals @HM pace or tempo @170-175 HR,the other is quality long run 30min @145 + 90min @165-170 HR

[@kofuzi]

This all seems very reasonable (And I have read your plan for our five times over) But I am going to do what I normally do: oversimplify and then do something rash. See today’s video update.

[@eriktred]

I've read about maffetone, but have not tried it. However, what impresses me the most is how religiously you followed it this training cycle. If you are an old runner than I'm a really old runner...

[@ranran3578]

I like u try this type of MAF training. Because ppl are different there is no cookie cutting training plan that suits for everyone. So u have to try out different things in order to find the best shot for urself. I don’t do Low heart rate training but I’m the biggest believer that run slow helps run fast!!! Believe what you believe and do ur best everyday :)

[@Gavinlee219]

With all the different things that can impact heart rate (eg caffeine, sleep quality, weather, etc), how do you keep your training consistent? My MAF zone pace in winter months is around 8:30-9:00/mile but during summer, it’ll be more like 10:00-10:30/mile.

[@kofuzi]

I think the only thing to do is to stop (or at least try to stop) worrying about pace. My watch face shows HR, elapsed time, and time of day. I don’t know the pace or distance until afterwards.

[@mrrafferty1]

Ive been in the Triathlon world for a little while and I would say the majority of the ELITE IRONMAN athletes use combo of LHR /MAF and polarized training just as you are suggesting. Granted they are racing a marathon at the end of a 2 mile swim and 112 mile bike, so ENDURANCE miles and pacing at those miles are crucial to completion. I'd say keep going with your thoughts on adding in speed about 3-4 weeks before taper. At least that is my current approach.

[@kofuzi]

It seems to be more popular in the triathlon world. But I think marathoners like to think triathletes don’t exist

[@ajayevee]

Good luck. I wish you the best. But I feel that there’s more to running than just your heart rate. How are you working on your form when you havent used your race stride for the past 500 miles? I saw you in CHI marathon. I do Fartlek or tempo runs after mile 10-15 on Long runs to simulate being tired during races. How do you avoid the same result as CHI? If you put in 80 mile weeks with your old training, do you think you would’ve performed better?

[@chinpoeykhoo6261]

@kofuzi Is the MAF method still effective in 2024, or might the 80/20 approach be better for an average runner who completed their first marathon in over four hours? My concern is that the MAF method may take months or even years to show benefits compared to other training methods. However, I acknowledge that the advantages of the MAF method include less pressure on recovery and a nearly risk-free, injury-free experience.

[@SoutheastSam3]

I think I'm gonna hit the low heart rate training now that I've finished my A race (1:53:41 HM). I've got a short trail race series and then a short "offseason" (~3 months) before my next cycle starts.

[@GokuRunnerV0]

drawsam be patient. Read the book of Philip Maffetone and I recommend the Uphill Athelete. Be patient with the slow run!!

[@Amanda.c91]

Oh yes “easy days” are my every training days! MAF heart aerobic training all day baby!

[@DavaoCutieTV]

Hi Sir Kofuzi. This is a great talk. I've learned a lot and I believe I am also thinking the same about being non elite and just doing PR. I have been watching most of your shoe reviews and now I am watching videos that would improve my running. I am obese runner early 30s and running at a very slow pace. I am planning on taking my first Half Marathon with this MAF plan. I hope I do not get DNF. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[@kofuzi]

don't worry about any one run. consistency is a matter of weeks, not days

[@Stalkilla]

I workout 2-3 times a week mainly running 5-10k (25-50min PB respectively) and doing home exercices (Focus T25) , i use apple watch serie4 as my HR monitor, I noticed everytime i start exercicing, my HR spikes to 90-100% (Max bmp is 189) and stays there for the whole exercice And by just warming up my HR hits 150-160Bpm, should i consult a specialist, is there a problem with me?

[@mustaphab.1190]

This is a bloody long video mate, watched it entirely to show my respect though, thanks for sharing, keep up 💪

[@kofuzi]

Sorry it’s so long. If I had more time, I could make it shorter.

[@mustaphab.1190]

@@kofuzi no worries, keep posting

[@MrChristerBerg]

This approach, but more refined and better - supported by a lot of science - is the 80/20 method, and a subset of that in turn is Polarized Training. There's ample evidence that volume running under VT1 (~ 75-77% of max HR) is very beneficial (for a variety of reasons), coupled with the balance done at medium/hard (80/20) or hard (Polarized) intensity. Maffetone is just a less effective way of doing this - sub-optimized if you want - also supported by research. It's all outlined, supported by the research, in Matt Fitzgerald's 80/20 Running book.

[@2spoons]

Have you set your own personal Heart Rate Zones....? (lactate threshold heart rate) etc ~ and how do you do it simply ?

[@chadliu86]

Been following you for a while. I am still chasing the four hour marathon. Was only 35s short last year. Then injury set me back last year. This one came up again. Still relevant. Would you consider doing a review on training comparing where you are three years ago?

[@tonybowen455]

About the mental thing you were talking about earlier on, I started jogging in Sept after watching the Courtney Dauwalter + Joe Rogan podcast. I related a lot to her. I decided to jog a marathon distance by March, but every time I went out I was feeling like I might just go for it if I felt good during the run. I ended up doing over 50k a month later. I felt like that was an impossible distance before, but I didn't feel much different than before I did my first marathon distance, so I decided to run 5 1/2 marathon distances in a row the last 5 days of November, and that was way harder for me, especially with work on two of those days. I took a few days off, and then I crushed my fastest 5k and mile times twice in a row on my next 5k jogs. Like I would always do 28:00-32:00 5ks before. I was able to get under 23:00, and I feel like I can easily break that next time as well. It was funny because I still felt like I was going at my 28:00 5k time, and I was really happy to see my time at the end. I really think it was the mental thing of knowing I'm just going 5k and not having to do another half marathon distance. I felt like I could push way harder longer mentally for 5k. Thanks to you and Jamison, too. Jamison got me to finally get my first good pair of running shoes with skechers go run rides, and I've learned a lot from your videos with pacing and trying out stuff which has helped me. I got a tickr after looking at your strava.

[@kofuzi]

that's great to hear! that is a lot of miles!

[@mgm153]

I would do 80/20. I have done this training before and when I did 2 quality sessions per week with longer LHR running my fitness improved tremendously. That usually took around 6-8 weeks. So maybe a little on the short side for your training. Another thing you can do even with LHR training is strides. Doing that with LHR allows you to keep some snap in the legs. This really helps with transition to faster work.

[@kofuzi]

yup

[@danielarkes1425]

Really insightful video. I am glad you found a system that works for you. When you add faster work, I am curious to see how you respond. You are undoubtedly stronger from running consistent 80 mile weeks, this will serve you well long term.

[@kofuzi]

I’m not necessarily sure this works for me, but the data seems good enough to warrant continuing the experiment. We’ll see

[@breaktherun]

Have you thought about scheduling a smaller race before Houston? I would think it could give u a good benchmark before then

[@piertechinc]

My pace is 8:45 per mile for marathon, at that pace my heart rate goes between 155 to 160 BPM, which I can handle for that duration, actually I dont know if anyone has noticed for themselves, but for me my heart rate drops the further I get into my run. I'm 55 years old, for me to run at MAF i would have to run at 130 HR (+5 BPM over standard 125 BPM) that would put me at approx 11:30 pace, which I have tried and was very difficult to do, since I am used to going faster. Do you think there is a plateau for MAF?

[@kofuzi]

There is. I think that most people never reach it

[@Amanda.c91]

do you think Polar makes the best wrist based HR monitors? I have a garmin forerunner right now and while at rest, yes it is accurate, but during activity, man it is not haha. been doing lonnggg sloooww runs and its says im at like 180-200! And im relaxed, conversational pace, not even wrinkling my face, even doing nose breathing during some parts of the run! but then when i do hard intervals on the stair master, sweating buckets huffing and puffing, it will say 80-90 lolllll WRONG.

[@highperformancebodywork3542]

i know elite runners that do a ton of running with v v easy eg less then 145 bpm pace. its very important. the key to using this style of running in phases and periodization of training in order to peak.

[@sunithac9510]

I am starting with MAF based training this week. So here is my question - during the initial few months - should i fully stop hitting gym. And can i do all the days running. Currently this is what i do.. i do 3 days running (2 days 1 hour each and 1 day 2.5 hour ) and 3 days gym(1 day upper body/1 day lower body/1 day core) and one day rest. please do recommend based on your finding till now

[@aamz001]

To improve endurance and time you need variety of trainings. I do mondays/tuesdays speedwork, wednesdays late evening - till night slow run (low heart rate), fridays intervals, sundays easy long run. I've improved by 40 seconds a km from my previews pace. I find intervals are best to improve your time. If you stick with LHR training you could benefit from getting further with your weekly mileage and I know most of the ultra marathoners training are low heart rate training. (they don't care about time but the finish). Good luck kofuzi

[@kofuzi]

I get comments like this daily. And I don’t think we all are necessarily disagreeing. You all are telling me I need to do x, y, z. I will ask you all, _when_ should a runner do those things? At couch to 5k? When they’re 8 months away from their next marathon? Or once they’re established some sort of mileage base?

[@aamz001]

@@kofuzi Yes you're right about x, y , z but if you want to take it to the next level you need pen and paper you actually need maths! make it more exciting rather then just going further. Look here is an example of weekly workout as you are experienced runner, instead of going 21km low HR 137bpm you can do 20x1000m with 2min rest in between you will be surprised (2min rest slow jog will give you an average of 100m x 20) total 22km at faster pace with lower HR your heart will pump blood according to timing rather then hard effort, the more your heart get use to timing the better for endurance. And of course you'll always have your sunday long run to improve further your endurance.

[@samueljamespillar]

nice to see you in the skechers. received mine today

[@H3ath]

I'm by no means an expert but i have noticed a couple of correlations that may interest you as i was noticing similar effects (pace increasing on longer runs at low hr). The type of food i had consumed prior seems to be a heavy indicator of how quickly my heart rate spikes (carbohydrates pushing it up faster, fasted or fat runs take longer to rise) also caffeine consumption prior to run seems to elevate and then taper off during the run. I hypothesised that there would be a difference in heart rate as your body moves through different stages of glycolysis, for example as i get towards the end of my run most of the available blood sugar has been used and i've noticed my running segments get longer (my maf training is run/walk alternating, just coming back to this running thing after years of smoking and couching haha. Thanks for tips and thoughts :D

[@kofuzi]

I think the prevailing theory is that this style of running relies less on glycogen depletion, instead relying on lipid metabolism. My understanding is that the price for this metabolic pathway is a reduction in top end speed. This further emphasizes the need for polarized training so as to make sure one is utilizing both sugar and fats as energy sources.