Lower Your Cholesterol With THESE Foods | Dr. David Jenkins | The Proof Podcast EP 216

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Cholesterol levels are concerningly high among populations consuming a standard Western diet - as I write in my book The Proof is in the Plants LDL cholesterol levels in both Australia and America are about twice as high as the optimal level where people have healthy arteries. We know that cholesterol is an essential component of the human body - but why is it best to avoid it rising above optimal levels? And what dietary changes can we make to promote optimal cholesterol levels? Dr David Jenkins answers this question and much more in today’s episode.
Dr David Jenkins is a professor at the University of Toronto, a staff physician in the Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, the Director of the Clinical Nutrition and Risk Factor Modification Center, and a scientist in the Li Ka Shing Knowledge Institute. His focus is the use of diet in the prevention of hyperlipidemia and diabetes, and he has published over 300 publications on this and adjacent topics. As an exceptionally accomplished professor, physician, and researcher, Dr Jenkins is very well positioned to give informed insight to the topic of cholesterol.
In this episode, we dig into cholesterol and the health implications of being exposed to high levels. We discuss the Portfolio Diet and the key findings Dr Jenkins has produced through his varies studies looking at this dietary pattern. Dr Jenkins also shares his specific recommendations on how and what to eat for optimal cholesterol levels, as well as how medication compares to a lifestyle approach.
Specifically, we cover:
0:00 Intro
2:35 Researching Cholesterol & Diet
15:00 What this means for you
17:23 Weight Loss Factor
20:14 The Portfolio Diet Explained
30:37 Nuts & Seeds
39:45 Weight
44:45 Raising HDL
50:51 Plant Sterols
58:52 Should We Eat Fish?
1:07:49 Statins
1:11:22 Outro
Dr Jenkins offers a lifetime of experience and expertise in today’s episode. I hope you found this conversation clarifying and informative.
Connect with Dr. Jenkins:
• Discover his publications on his University of Toronto profile: nutrisci.med.utoronto.ca/facu...
• His daughter’s book, The Portfolio Diet for Cardiovascular Disease Risk Reduction: www.booktopia.com.au/the-port...
• Dietary Portfolio PDF that Simon mentions ccs.ca/app/uploads/2020/11/Po...
The best way to support the show is to use the products and services offered by our sponsors. To check them out, and enjoy great savings, visit theproof.com/friends
Enjoy, friends.
Simon
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[@cassandrabennett9446]

Love this man for saying that we need to plan our diets and nutritional recommendations around living in harmony with the planet 🌏 Preach 🙌

[@user-fk8rb8ue5h]

Try telling that to the Chinese and the Indians that are burning coal like there's no tomorrow

[@Madronaxyz]

Before farming, humans did live in harmony with the planet. In the mid-1980s, I read dr. Richard Leakey's books about human diet history as deduced from archaeological findings. Doctor Leaky argued that humans primarily ate plants until the dawn of pastoralism and then farming. The reason for this was that humans had not developed the hunting technology to to catch and kill most mammals and fish. Since they hadn't developed things like bows and arrows or spears, humans were opportunistic meat eaters. They ate meat when they could get it. For example, around the Olduvai gorge. There was a lake there they had fish with a high level of omega-3 fatty acids. At times of the year the fish become stranded by water levels. So it was easy to catch a fish with your bare hands. Some anthropologists think that the reason humans developed larger brains there was because the easy to catch fish gave them enough omega-3 fatty acids to have their brains evolved to be larger Before hunting technology, the most reliable sources of animal protein were things like grubs.

[@conniedayactress]

Oats make me deathly ill. I do avoid carbs except occasionally and they are small amounts of black beans, rice, and sourdough bread. I do eat fish , ocassionly grass fed beef. Goat milk for my coffee, sheep and goat cheese cheese. Whey protein, fish oil. Chicken. And lots of veggies. At 82, I have tons of energy, no food cravings, and a youthful limberl body, young skin, teeth, and hair. No one guesses my age. I usually only eat animal proteins with veggies. I don't eat carbs and sugar with animal proteins. I am very strong and I live the life of a much younger person. I couldn't live the way I do if I didn't exercise and eat healthfully. My lean muscle mass is very good. No gas, bloating, or indigestion problems. I'm not afraid of Saturday fat. I est a handful of pistachio nuts every day. I put olive oil on whatever everythingI i can.am afraid of.packaged food and the standard American diet. I eat whole and organic whenever I can. I work at keeping my body in good shape, my brain stimulated, and my bones and lean.muscle mass strong. Lean protein and good green veggies ,

[@leniolesch896]

Dr Jenkins is truly remarkable. He’s nuanced und unbiased and has such a holistic view. We can learn so much from him and I wish to be as sane as he when I have his age.

[@robertmacgregor8438]

Why are you a raving loon now?

[@lindsaytoussaint]

I’m just about a third way into this one but I have to jump down here and leave a shoutout for you and your team getting these amazing guests on the show. And it’s always wonderful seeing how these conversations progress and the excellent follow up questions. I’m sending this to a friend who is concerned about his cholesterol. 🙏🏾

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

I stopped eating meat and having dairy for two weeks, and had my cholesterol checked again after a month of my last one and my LDL went down NINE points. Just by not having meat or milk for two weeks. I can’t wait to check again in a few months. Please tell your friend to get his ApoB and LPa checked. I had mine checked and they are extremely high and early indicators of heart disease. I order my labs through wellnessFX.

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

I have had a smoothie with raw milk for breakfast everyday for ten years. A huge salad or soup for lunch. Grass fed beef or chicken with two sides of veggies for dinner. My cholesterol was high. My ApoB and LPa were/are extremely high. I don’t eat fast food or processed food. I don’t take supplements. I decided to see what would happen if I cut out raw milk and meat and so I did. My cholesterol panel in June showed crp 1.4, a month later after only two weeks of no milk or meat, it’s 0.7. My LDL was 117 last month, it’s now 108. My non HDL cholesterol was 132, now it’s 123! Two weeks of cutting out animal products and this happens. Unfortunately my diet of raw milk and red meat caused my LPa and ApoB and homocysteine to be very high. Will check those again in 6 months since those take a while to bring down. We’ve been lied to about milk and meat being good for us. It’s not. And I’m a farmer with cows 😁 now a plant based believer 🌱🥕🙌 oh and I lost 4 pounds (don’t have a lot to lose) 😎 I’d be willing to join his research group! My LPa and ApoB is really high. I’ve only been 100% plant based for 3 weeks now so I know it’ll take it awhile to bring those down.

[@eugeniebreida1583]

Congrats for your experimentation/rigor re meat/dairy and markers of atherosclerotic disease process. You have inspired me to move my diet over, and get the meat/milk fats (quite ltd) out of my diet. I do Not want to lose weight, but gain some. What shall we sub in which is both satisfying and non-inflammatory - and calorie dense? I would love ideas. Is peanut butter a reasonable ‘add-on’? Where will you go with carbs-? Etc ; )

[@eugeniebreida1583]

PS It’s my guess the milk and chicken did more harm than the beef, but just a guess : )

[@arihaviv8510]

But it's not just what is anti inflammatory but what is in the food that will get the cholesterol out. Vegan oreos most likely would not have helped either

[@arihaviv8510]

​@@eugeniebreida1583 whey protein has been shown to lower cholesterol but i wouldn't have it raw!!

[@user-jm1tv7zl8m]

Yeah, peanut butter but no raw milk! Hilarious! Sorry, that I can’t convert my blood work to US values( live in Europe). My cholesterol is perfect, triglycerides very low. I’m eating a lot of red meat, at least 4 egg per day, and tons of vegetables. When I’m sick of meet, I have 2-3 weeks only veggies and legumes. My grand grandfather died at 104, both his brothers also above 95. They were all meat eaters. They slaughtered animals only before winter. So winter heavy meat diet, spring and summer mostly vegetables from the garden. None of them died from cancer or hearth issues. My grand grandfather had 2 principles. Never eat when it’s dark, and always stop when you are still a little hungry.

[@robertmacgregor8438]

A true giant in his field, a guy that radiates graceful aging. You can see it in his face and hear it in his voice. Thanks for using emotive terms like good and bad cholesterol and not a neutral and more accurate term lipoproteins. Enjoy this podcast. I have learned a lot.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

My pleasure!

[@NathanBanks13]

Brilliant as always Simon. Loved listening to this Man, great hearing from someone who has poured their life into something and clearly cares about what he does. Well done both of you and thank you👏

[@marisaangelico3132]

Honestly it was a privilege to listen to DR Jenkins. What an extraordinary man. Thanks Simon 🙏

[@emmabushby1152]

I loved this episode!! Dr Jenkins is an amazing man... I love how he looks at the big picture and his balanced view point... This is the sort of person we need setting dietary guidelines!!! Thanks for another great interview Simon...

[@davidhogg1216]

Excellent discussion. We need to reference Dr Jenkins’s work and his Diet Portfolio far and wide since he has authoritatively researched the WFPB diet and tackle all the knotty questions. And yes, good for the planet. Thank you Simon for drawing out all this information and research. The whole world needs to know about it better.

[@r.mcd2921]

What a refreshingly gracious and intelligent man. Thank you for bringing Dr. Jenkins into my focus. I'm a long time vegan, but am tweaking my diet to follow the Portfolio plan. I like science that makes sense.

[@jacquelinedella-santa2451]

what a fantastic interview, Thank you so much. Dr Jenkins is amazing and humble with his incredible knowledge

[@lindac6147]

Fantastic interview Simon. We are so lucky to have you elevating the conversation for us all around health. Your key questions, summaries and fact checking in the interview make you a 5 star interviewer. Simply the Best !

[@kathleenbefittwell8179]

Another great episode. Dr. Jenkins is a gem 😊 I've been sharing this episode all over, but just finished it myself. Thank you!

[@wilsont1010]

Which part of it?

[@emilybarry9410]

This was a FANTASTIC and INFORMATIVE conversation Simon, 🙏 PS: I just have to say that Dr. Jenkins is just about the cutest elderly man ever! Very sharp, articulate and great energy!!!

[@fastingfrugivore]

This is a fantastic conversation! Powerful , resonates oh so well with all of us here !! Thank you David n Simon 👍

[@masher1042]

Extremely informative and helpful interview. Many thanks!

[@marioc.7714]

Amazing conversation. So instructive. Keep up the excellent work.

[@nwabuonye4987]

Brilliant episode. Lot's of good information and guidance. Didn't show up Google podcast for me as well. The fructose episode is the most recent on there.

[@martinabernstein2912]

Absolutely brilliant! Thank you.

[@antheaphillips5679]

This was an excellent episode. Thank you! 🌱

[@wilsont1010]

Which part of it?

[@sssteviep]

Great episode Simon this was information I am very interested in knowing. Based on this I will be making some tweaks to my diet. Also will you be doing another with Drew?

[@catherinekasmer9905]

Fabulous interview. Thank you for bringing us this pioneer of nutrition research! Just wonderful.

[@jan_k469]

Thanks for this interview. After finding out my LDL cholesterol was 204 mg/dl (I ate a lot of saturated fats) I started doing the Portfolio diet (but also eating fish and chicken, some OTC supplements and more exercise) and my LDL went down to 103 in six weeks, a 50% reduction! I was ready to start taking statins, hopefully I'll be able to keep these numbers even without them. I like the linked PDF infographic, very clear and specific, printed that out for my mom as well.

[@ThePlantParadigm]

Oats with soy milk and berries sounds like a legendary breakfast!

[@metalrunner4398]

I also add peanut butter, flax, hemp and chia seeds 😀

[@blisskirtanyoga]

Brilliant man and funny too ☺️. Thanks Simon. Loved the boat analogy. I'm going to include more of these sterols, love oat bran actually. Not sure about the genetic thing that he mentioned about absorbing plant sterols, not clear on that , how to test for that? Thanks again. Post stroke victim grateful for this 🙏☺️

[@rea5592]

Simon, I loved this episode. I just listened to it (catching up after a busy summer) and will be listening to it several more times. Thanks so much. I really want to get Dr. Jenkin's daughter's book but the link you gave in the show notes took me to the original book, which is now priced at almost $200 and it isn't the new book Dr. Jenkins mentioned. He never gave his daughter's name and there are a few cookbooks associated with the portfolio diet but none identify the author as Dr. Jenkins daughter. Maybe I'm missing something? If it isn't my mistake, could you please somehow give us more information or update the link in the show notes? Thanks!

[@jenniferclifford4669]

Such a thoughtful conversation by two lovely thoughtful men. Thank you.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@smilebot484]

great discussion.

[@lynnemann7066]

I LOVED THIS EPISODE!!!!

[@susiegonzalez4573]

This had great information that I always wondered about regarding doing both nutritionally and taking a statin.

[@kengaskins5083]

Excellent guest, Simon. Your podcast first caught my attention with a Doctor Longo one. Beforehand, I thought your podcasts along with Rich Roll were more along the lines of Joe Rogan (God forbid!) because I never clicked to watch (my apologies). You, along with Nutrition Made Simple, ZOE, Plant Based Nutrition London, and Rich Roll are some of my favorites now. Looking forward to catching the lipidologist interview (Thomas Dayspring?). Currently I'm a ovo-pescatarian, though I only eat fish maybe twice a week and eggs when I go out for breakfast because it is more convenient due to limited menu choices (don't want just oatmeal and fruit). With the doc's testimony near the end, I may just give up the fish if I can find a good algae supplement for the DHA and EPH just in case the Omega-3 thing is important. If someone has a recommendation, please let me know! Also, if anyone knows of a good butter substitute then please let me know, as it is the one thing I really miss from meat & dairy (currently use Benecol mainly).

[@marianblum1064]

Great interview touching on a bunch of key issues in cholesterol management from a seasoned expert in the field. Thank you! Simon, I would like to know if a person with high LDL, already following a whole foods plant-based diet with nuts/seeds but no oils, would likely reap additional benefit from adding the plant stanols? Common sense tells me yes, if via a bottled supplement and no if as a margarine. What's the science say?

[@larryharvey7709]

5 1/2 years vegan and still struggling with cholesterol. Two visits to the hospital for stents. This is the most encouraging news I’ve seen. Still not going to use oils.

[@jsshapes]

Hi Simon, you mentioned a chart with the food type and cholesterol reduction %. I cant see where you have attached it. many thanks

[@runninblue9415]

What a charming man. And quite brilliant. Thank you 🙏

[@cyclamen831]

Really great podcast! I like also the fact that he mentions the socio-economic status when he talks about omega 3. Not that many family can afford the cost of salmon and likely would default in buying ground beef for themselves and their family. I would argue that you may have better luck in promoting how to make cheap but delicious black bean burgers than convincing the average American in splurging twice a week in the high cost salmon. At the end of the day, it is establishing long term healthy habits that will make a difference.

[@StephenMarkTurner]

I live about an hour down the road from Dr Jenkins (in Waterloo), so I have known the name for a long time. I believe he actually developed the concept of the glycemic index back in the day, so that might be a whole other podcast. :-) Thanks for this, Simon and Dr J.

[@blackmarketarmy]

Do you happen to know his age?

[@StephenMarkTurner]

@@blackmarketarmy I don't. Perhaps early 80s

[@undefinedfirstnameundefine7820]

For phytosterols, if you're in Australia Sanitarium sell a Cholesterol lowering weetbix which contain 2g of plant sterols (I think beta sisterol and campesterol). I was going to supplement beta sisterol but now I just eat 2 of these weetbix a day for a 10% decrease in cholesterol.

[@adifeo]

Great episode as always! Would love to have an episode on IBD (Crohn’s / ulcerative colitis ) with Dr. Robynne Chutkan

[@irenecohen8708]

Dangerous doctor. She advocates for no meds for Crohn’s and Ulcerative Colitis. People can be in clinical remission but have severe damage on endoscopy and end up with cancers, bowel resections, etc.

[@wilsont1010]

Take monolaurin daily.

[@robertmacgregor8438]

What are the short and long term effects of consuming of plant sterols. Are there any negative effects? I don't think I heard mention of a down side so it must just possitive. Is there away of completely replacing native cholesterol with healthy plant sterols This is a very objective, unbiased discussion.

[@blisskirtanyoga]

Are there a plant sterols supplements and is it ok to use in conjunction with this kind of diet?

[@200Nora]

My HDL and triglycerides are very good, but my LDL has always been high even when I was young. Now at 68, on a low carb diet with IF for pre diabetes control (did reverse it). My LDL went from 160 to 200. My CAC was zero. My fat intake never been high, and only slightly elevated with the low carb diet I am now. I am fit and lean, actually I always been of a good weight, I exercise daily for about an hour walks and gym. Overall, I am healthy. No medications, I did refused the statins. If I was going to have a heart attack based on LDL elevation only, it would have happened long time ago.

[@jacquelinedella-santa2451]

can we include avocado? i cant see it in the portfolio plan?

[@lindac6147]

@theproofwithsimonhill....the book you link to in the notes on the Portfolio Diet is $165.00 !!! Is there another one you can recommend? This must be an academic book.

[@jxeh1442]

Could you point me towards where you have spoken about blood pressure on the podcast? Specifically steps to lower it.

[@jxeh1442]

Also I love this mans voice lol

[@mechellespillekom5891]

Thank you for the interview. But at some point could you please do a video on women’s health, menopause, and health issues that arise with ageing? I’ve been whole plant based (vegan) for ten years and very active, and reduced stress/ work etc. You would think this lifestyle would keep my health markers looking great, but at sixty years of age (and even my mum at 90 yrs also vegan) we are struggling with cholesterol/ weight/ autoimmune issues. Thank you

[@mechellespillekom5891]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I’ll check them out now thanks 😊

[@SandyBatten1962]

Perhaps we need to find a way to increase the size of hdl "boats" as opposed to, or even better, in conjunction with, increasing the speed of those same boats. Why? Because the size of the boat ultimately dictates the number of passengers it can carry whereas increasing only the size of its motor, and therefore the speed at which it can reach its destination to offload its passengers, places its passengers at risk of capsize due to exceeding the boats physical capacity !

[@SandyBatten1962]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill he had me at hello 🙂😉

[@samgiann9133]

Not a word about blood sugar and diabetes with this diet though

[@veniqe]

Tim Noakes ate a high-carb diet for decades. He ended up with diabetes despite being very active.

[@arihaviv8510]

Ok here's the big question. Nuts are encouraged on this plan. How would you respond to the claims and science of people like Dr. ornish, who favor a very low fat plant based diet instead?

[@johnsmith-zf1fd]

Why not an episode with dr joel fuhrman?

[@jmwhitt]

In the past these mono and poly unsaturated fats have been found to make platelets and rbcs stick together. Has this been overlooked?

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Test tube studies presumably?

[@StephenMarkTurner]

I take a smidge of plant derived DHA / EPA, spare the fish, and let the health debaters continue to debate.

[@StephenMarkTurner]

Amazon Canada wants over 150 bucks for even the Kindle version of the Portfolio Diet book? Something seems wrong there.

[@StephenMarkTurner]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill ahhh. Thanks.

[@sierravandevosse7809]

I am 99% plant based. the only animal product include in my weekly diet is a few cans of sardines. it’s a great source of DHA fatty acids. Is this healthy?

[@GlennMarshallnz]

Yes, very healthy combo. Sardines provide high source of omega 3, iodide, b12. Plus a good protein top up as they contain all the essential amino acids. 👍

[@sabby123456789]

I uploaded my 23&Me data to GeneFood and one of the things it said was that I was a HYPER ABSORBER of sterols and that I should limit nuts and seeds to no more than a few servings PER MONTH. This is what it said: "You are more likely to absorb greater amounts of the sterols found in foods like avocado, nuts and seeds and oils. Consider excluding vegetable and seed oil from your diet and limiting the highest sterol foods, like avocado and nuts, to no more than a few servings per month. You may want to discuss testing sterol levels, such as beta sitosterol, with your doctor." I cannot eat much carbohydrate because of impaired glucose metabolism, and if I cannot eat nuts and seeds, am I left with just eating oily fish and salad? My LDL goes up if I eat animal fat or dietary cholesterol.

[@Lieutenant-Dan]

Hi Simon! Loving these episodes. I was wondering what your take was on vitamin K2? I've heard a lot of people recommend to take it with D3, especially vegans?

[@Lieutenant-Dan]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill thank you!

[@eugeniebreida1583]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill BMD? Body Mass --??

[@davidhogg1216]

@@eugeniebreida1583 bone mineral density - ref. to osteoporosis

[@eugeniebreida1583]

@@davidhogg1216 Thanks David - but of course. Must say I'm not entirely in accord with 'the proof' as to K2, as I think some natto (bacterial K) consumption, or a perfect personal microbiome, or purchased K2 supplementation is beneficial - at least periodically - if one supplements D3 in med/high on a regular basis. I am thinking of where the calcium deposits in terms of arteries , even more than teeth and bone. What do you think? (And it does so happen I'm a rather low bmi, postmenopausal gal. Thankfully a lifetime of hardcore soccer/basketball/tennis etc benefitted important bone density through 40's and early 50's (not such great news for knee cartilage!) , but time is a great (bone/muscle) 'reducer' . . . esp for women whose hormones drop off a cliff in the very middle of our lives. Waiting for Western med/science to catch up with actions we can take at age 40/50 to at least 'normalize' our hormonal levels to equate with similarly aged males.)

[@joycedee2194]

@@eugeniebreida1583 Maybe Simon means Bone Mineral Density? Not sure.

[@kotababy411]

Please reach out to High Carb Health on here shamiz and Shakul help people get ride of ibd ulcerative colitis and chronic through a plant based diet and they are very informative would love to see them on you podcast

[@mariamunguia8863]

Give that man, some beef he sounds sick!

[@kevinbrannan8347]

Fruit really good also ask Steve jobs

[@flolou8496]

I recently heard a scientist say that about 18% of our brain is made out of cholesterol, but is it really that simple? in other words what exactly is the difference between dietary cholesterol from say beef, compared to the cholesterol that makes up our brains? (is there really a difference chemically)

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

Yaaaaaaaasssss climate change matters!!! Eat for the planet (it just happens to be healthy too)

[@GlobalDrifter1000]

You don’t publish publications. You publish papers.

[@brendawood6712]

I wish his voice was stronger,

[@annemccarron2281]

Why do people want to criticize others for insignificant traits? He is a brilliant physician & researcher. Why not find something positive to say about him?

[@juliapace2845]

This was an interesting post. Does dear Dr. Jenkins have a brand of plant sterols that he recommends? I'd like to try it but I'd rather get the most reliable one - Amazon has many options - what do you recommend? My cholesterol is pretty good if I don't eat animal products, but I'm no longer willing to be vegan. (always hungry and gaining weight) Now with very high ApoB after eating real food for 90 days. sigh . . . . . . . .

[@hlits6310]

Very much a plant centric channel. The bias is hard not to notice. Still it is interesting

[@hlits6310]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I watched the debate on seed oils and you were excellent moderator. The reason I subscribed initially was because I was hoping for more debates with people from the low carb high-fat world. I think if you have more of those you’ll get a tonne of subscribers whether they look favourably at plant centric or not.

[@arihaviv8510]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill on the other other hand, plant based saturated fats such as coconut and palm are now really popular in the plant based food community... along with lots of sugar. We also don't know if the vegan heme in impossible burgers will be as unhealthy as red meat

[@k.h.6991]

@@arihaviv8510 Are they? I don't know any reputable whole food plant based doctor who recommends coconut and palm oil. They're, like animal fat, the unhealthy type of fats.

[@Crowmother13]

Is there a transcript for this? I have misophonia, so I cannot listen to this man speak. Mouth sounds. Makes me nauseous.