LS - A Brief Look at Cookies and Scorch

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#LS #Clips #Highlights

[@LSXYZ9]

True

[@SolicticeCat]

True

[@TwistedPT19]

Hi LS it's everyone, I've been trying out karthus jungle like you've been advocating and i gotta say, getting 3k gold with first strike is pretty balanced

[@ACE112ACE112]

Obama giving Obama a medal meme

[@grovile-qo8yn]

You can tell LS is not actually on the moon in this video, IK what you are thinking "but how he is so obviously on the moon here I can see it with my own eyes" and to that i would say look a little deeper. The presence of a candle on his desk that is BURNING indicates that there is enough oxygen for an open flame to stay lit, and on the moon there is not enough oxygen for this phenomenon. LS is clearly trying to put up a façade here ... the question is why?

[@TheCitrusPanda]

LS aka Lunar Schemer.

[@drb4074]

@@TheCitrusPanda aka Lying Spaceman

[@shinobuu__]

@@drb4074 Litterally Space

[@MrDjFitzz]

Susge

[@chic7489]

I have to disagree with you. He is on the Moon. Firstly you can see the perfect representation of Earth on the top right. Secondly you can clearly see that the candle is CGI and not the moon as the jar is "bugging". "But how can LS breath on the Moon?", you might ask. Well, we know that his game knowledge is not from this world, hence, he is an alien and aliens don't need oxygen. So, the real question is why there is a CGI candle there? I think it is because he want us to think that he is human.

[@ACE112ACE112]

Really liking this type of content. Helps get your points about the game out there better than just talking about it on stream.

[@codyp2808]

Yeah in a context where he's not dealing with chat trolls making dumb arguments and wasting his time arguing with that. he can pick the point he actually wants to communicate

[@sakuragriffin9813]

I agree! I have made a lot of changes to my gameplay because of his comments like these from his streams, Now that there are dedicated videos to them, it makes it even clearer. Let's hope for more content like this from LS.

[@tiddyt6527]

@@codyp2808 yeah his articulation and knowledge really comes across when he’s not on his “stream” persona of arguing with low elo iq trolls lol. Gives u a glimpse into why so many pros want him to coach them.

[@ohtheir0ny831]

Love this content LS. 10/10 information and entertainment. Keep it coming.

[@jannesrabe8581]

so true

[@reckon7457]

His nose looks awkward

[@chewbaka025]

what kind of information you take from this? I hear only his opinion, but not an explanation for why that's the case.

[@skullz1]

@@chewbaka025 I'd say he at least gave a good summary on the topic. The ending explains it especially well imo, what is the impact of scorch vs the impact of gathering storm, and how consistent are they? I think he gave a good enough explanation for why it's usually gathering storm, that people aren't laning well enough for scorch to be absolutely needed. My understanding is that in most cases, even if scorch/cookies appears to have an impact, it can be argued that those wouldn't be necessary if the player laned better. I suspect this is not a good enough explanation for you, but it is an explanation nonetheless even if you disagree with it, so it's not true that he didn't give an explanation.

[@chewbaka025]

@@skullz1 I don't think I got to the point of understanding it to actually disagree. What is "laning better"? Could you compare the same champion using scorch vs gathering storm and play out verbally what's the difference? I like LS, I consume a lot of his content and I often leave with the impression that I didn't learn anything new, other than his opinion. You need to watch a lot of LS to understand and you have to be lucky to catch him defining the terms that he uses.

[@play_with_aplomb]

These videos are great to me primarily because it lets LS talk through his thought process without the vitriol of Twitch chat etc getting him down. I feel like big sweeping statements that LS makes on topics such as cookies and scorch on stream always end up seeming too general, and I always gave LS the benefit of the doubt that there was more nuance to it that he just didn’t/couldn’t let on in a stream scenario. Finally hearing all the completed nuance is super fun.

[@shinobuu__]

Exactly. When LS has time to prepare or just talk about things without having to constantly explain in real time to twitch chat it makes it so much better. No anger/rage and complete thoughts are fleshed out where on twitch he will usually get sidetracked by something dumb someone said or did in game.

[@goktrenks]

Good points

[@Rezoahc]

This video format really promotes LS's strengths. He's such a great analyst/lecturer and this allows him to get his thoughts across much more efficiently.

[@IWDominatelol]

Hey LS, it's everyone.

[@frankezic4245]

Hey Dom it's Fran.

[@test-vl2bd]

father i cant hold on

[@DS_Takuya]

Hey it's, everyone LS.

[@topi2643]

@@DS_Takuya Its hey, Ls everyone

[@christian3011]

Hey Coke, it's IWD

[@Scareifice112]

Joe has been a blessing for the production value, for me you're the best league content creator out there. keep it up LS!

[@jacksonfinnie]

LS didn't mention the fact scorch only damages champs whilst gathering storm does damage to everything I think this is an important argument

[@alessiapinelli]

arent u the guy that hates vapora dark

[@erebos7093]

He did mention it. He stated that some single target champions can be better with scorch before 20 min in some situations.

[@dominikgose6770]

@@erebos7093 he mentioned in terms of scorch damage on aoe vs single target spells. Not champions vs everything else in the game

[@epitaph20]

@@erebos7093 I think he meant to say that gathering storm also increase your damage toward objectives like turrets, jungle camps, drake,...

[@pittaaaabread]

@@alessiapinelli And? How does that invalidate his point?

[@Helikite]

I always thought about taking cookies into lanes I think I might not do well in. I never really understood why people took them into already wining lanes or “to push the advantage”

[@MKIP94]

Usually good with poke champ that makes of this skill tree so you can take a riskier trade. I'm sure there's other ways but as ls mentioned its not really something you take than the other runes

[@Duck-re3tm]

It is my go to as ornn so I can stay in lane as long as possible and force my opponent to take a bad back timing because the longer we stay in lane the stronger I am compared to the enemy since I can just build items in lane

[@bruh4873]

for push. you can trade your hp for push. push=control. control=dive bot/top/ fuck enemy jg-->snowball+objective control im not saying its good or bad but thats the reason

[@bruh4873]

@biwabiwa its the only reason why pros pick cookies idk what games you watching. if you dont play with them its easily abusable early game considering two good teams playing against each other. when you see both players have 3 cookies its bc both of them are “scared” to make a volatile trades

[@bruh4873]

@biwabiwa oh i see. ig ppl see things different. i would like to see other runes being taken more often and how it goes tho

[@axelandersen5975]

Yes. Absolutely agree. In this stage of league, players are not good enough yet to plan out trades 5 min in advance to manage their mana/health bar to know if they need cookies/scorch or not to either get a kill or force the opponent out of lane. Taking cookies/scorch into every matchup is basically like taking a 85/15 split on whether they need cookies for a possible solo kill/forced reset because it feels validating 15% of the time when it actually does happen while ignoring the 85% where these runes are just dead. This idea is very similar to solving rubiks cubes. At this current stage, humans are not good enough at cubing to know during inspection if solving the cross will lead to an oll/pll skip or when it is a good idea to make moves that seem unnecessary but eventually set up the cube for an oll/pll skip. Taking cookies/scorch is akin to these "unnecessary" moves. If these moves were performed every human solve, 99% of the time they would not help the cuber because they would not lead to an oll/pll skip because we have not progressed to the point where these things are recognizable. Stay away from these runes if you intend on using them for an aggressive purpose until you are good enough to analyze a lane state so well that you know that the extra 150 mana is absolutely critical to gain an advantage. Thank you for reading my Ted talk

[@rumbleroar2]

singed mains actually use scorch into high damage melees like irelia, jayce, gp, tryndamere, aatrox etc. and the idea is to force them to use pots early so they can't keep harassing you

[@sammigs34]

Singed for being a simple champ like garen has so much skill to master lol

[@kurtaaron4110]

Minishcap doesn’t really run scorch into them iirc

[@rumbleroar2]

@@kurtaaron4110 he used to run absolute focus + scorch so he can go ham first 3 levels because singed struggles until 6 after that.

[@kurtaaron4110]

@@rumbleroar2 thought lately he was running domination resolve secondary but I must be wrong

[@bobbybobsen123]

I like this, but when going through such concepts I think it would be very helpful with a concrete reference point, for example a specific rune setup in a pro game you disagree with, together with a thorough explanation why that rune setup was not optimal there

[@jeremiemarion3966]

Ex: Orianna Scorch + cookie Orianna is a scaling champion that won't win any matchup early on hard enough to kill and trade on cd except with autos, therefore you're taking a rune that won't benefit your real spike wich is liandry/dcap/void at 30 Minutes. Where scorch and cookies have no value you're better off having stopwatch and gathering storm you just constitently output more damage. Same would go with Viktor. Toplane matchups are different you would take cookie for effective hp and mana early on with Gankplank vs Jayce for example But if you go botside, there is no reason for an adc to get cookies, for any reason, you're better off having conditionning + overgrothw for standalone adcs, or ultimate hunter for utility adcs like jhin ashe varus. High elo players trade extremly hard on the first few levels, especially if they know the mage matchup they got has the upper hand. That's why scorch +cookie dominates to fight early on with your jungler and ensure snowball. But this is soloqueue environnement at very high level of play, and not competitive scene which is organized play not just running around.

[@proghostbusters1627]

@Thomas Surlykke however, as he mentioned both here and in the past, cookies and scorch are good/okay in some matchups in order to ensure you get to outscale later. As he said it's good to use them defensively, they're usually bad when used for early game aggresion, especially cookies imo.

[@matthewskullblood9778]

Love the added detail of using what earth actually looks like

[@joao3585]

Almost pulled a good throw on that box. Loved the thoughs on this topic.

[@jonah3375]

I'm sure that rjs is going to make a well articulated, cohesive, and nuanced response to this.

[@rin-zj4dt]

cookies matter because you can still eat a cookie 30 minutes into the game and turn a fight /s

[@UnknownUser-xs7dg]

@@rin-zj4dt would the item slot of the cookie 30 minutes into the game worth tho? 🤨

[@ColtCudi]

Love the videos lately, these short comprehensive videos and the recent Q&A have had my full attention from start to finish. Please keep it up!

[@paragonca9736]

This type of analytical content is my jam. This legitimately makes me consider supporting LS on Patreon

[@adamlombard689]

I think this is the best type of content you can produce. These are the types of videos that are palatable by nearly everyone and truly help educating the League community.

[@RipIPDime]

I feel like the defensive argument for cookies, especially, is good, in that they are a nice insurance policy in solo queue where opponents are random. In pro play, you go into games with a lot more prep and knowledge than a random solo queue game. Outside of pro play, you won't really have a good way to judge whether your opponent is better or worse than you during lock-in. And getting chunked and forced to back can almost single handedly ruin a lane if the timing is bad enough. A refillable plus a cookie or two can be enough to keep you in lane during a wave crash when you would otherwise lose gold and exp, so I don't mind it.

[@WakksTG]

I love the fact that You are making these videos and bringing concepts to everyones eyes, i think, in the long term, it would make players think in a more critical way and improve their decision making, and, end up getting better at the Game. Thank You LS

[@LikeACrouton]

Glad LS is doing these. I think Thorin mentioned while ago LS's way of thinking is well suited to these style of videos. Eventually, all his thoughts will be out and cataloged for people curious in future. Probably good for the peace of mind. Loves Sanity.

[@chrissanchez3884]

Please more content like this! These are the kinds of videos LoL needs

[@compactreview]

Wonderful background! I'm watching this at night and the black is really pleasing :)

[@kevinschretter6068]

love this content. learning not only about league, but actually deeply rooted gaming-theories is really interesting

[@TeaWhoYou321]

love the nassus vid u made as well, awesome format. It's enjoyable to listen to someone informed analytically speak about the game, take care man you rock.

[@versutus2699]

*Obligatory gen g bakes really good cookies* Love the content you've been putting out. The connections you put to startcraft are really insightful too. I'm wondering if you will ever have time for the league nightmares or fundamentals videos like about freezing too.

[@Dingdong2730]

I’d argue the inspiration tree is the most skill/mastery expressive tree. First row, can you potentially forego boots early on, but in return get more value later on through 10+ movespeed and 300 gold for free. Likewise perfect timing is if you can imagine a scenario where an early stopwatch can alter your matchup or let you make a play you wouldn’t be able to without it. The same thing goes for the other rows in the tree, do you know your champ well enough. Do you need cookies to assert pressure in this lane and contest first back/first blood. Do you need DMat to contest pushing lanes. Is certain item spikes crucial for this matchup and futures market is essential. Then we have scorch, which is overall just a terrible rune that is way too undertuned to actually do anything in early lane, and the other 2 rune choices actually holding consistent value as the game progresses.

[@yujitamura4024]

Keep up the content LS! It's huge for encouraging the evolution of overall knowledge of league playerbase. Thank you!

[@Miragosa]

As a former starcraft 2 player this explination made me finally understand this. Thank you so much LS

[@syma5411]

dude you have to make this into a series

[@danieltaylor6918]

The flat earth in the background has me screaming🤣🤣🤣

[@ericborczuk135]

I like the candle burning to signify scorchin

[@slayerralzeph3111]

good take LS, im of the opinion that in solo queue the early game stuff feels better and is more controllable than the late game stuff, focusing on lane and then picking champs around the runes. not that I think this line of thinking is correct, but that I feel a lot of people think this way and then automatically assume "oh it worked for me, why isn't everyone doing this lmao"

[@TheCrazykid0416]

I love the flat earth in the background LOL

[@ignaciogonzalez8448]

Keep it up with these kind of videos. Completely love it!

[@snowstorrm]

i love the realistic depiction of the earth in the background :)

[@johnwelter7081]

You broke my immersion with the lit candle in space.

[@atnasingetnamn2887]

LS talking about Starcraft makes me incredibly nostalgic for that game at its peak as sole top competitive esport.

[@RedBikelane]

Crazy how you're able to do this in 1 take, you are truly living and breathing league

[@premshah162]

love this type of content LS

[@BlackjackBrooks]

more of this please!

[@shaunstrachan]

I dont play league I have no idea what either cookies or scorch do. This was still pretty interesting to listen to in terms of framing how people view and value items.

[@tristan9565]

I have really enjoyed these type of videos. keep up the good work

[@abcdefgh5808]

I like to take cookies as engage support. especially if it is a lane where there will be a lot of fighting, without immediately getting kills.

[@gigagaming960]

Thats in soloq no? And its very hard for people outside chal and such to control which is why cookies can be taken lower down

[@doctordoggo420]

ls looks like hes having a ton of fun playing with editing and props lmao

[@aircatcher6891]

Im glad you decided to do the videos that don't stand the test of time. I feel like itll be beneficial especially since the game isnt changing rapidly and players have stagnated

[@seamonster175]

Damn when LS actually presents his argument formally with facts instead of just flaming on stream it hits super different. Maybe more people will take it seriously now. Love this kind of stuff ❤️

[@White__Ink]

Flaming on stream is needed because who has time to explain every little minute detail to *twitch chat*.

[@tenki_]

loving the flat earth icon as a metaphor for how RJS is Earth's true King and the flatness represents League of Legends champion progression because, as we all know, scaling doesn't exist

[@HSFJepsen]

The few instances where I go cookies as a support is, A: Lane kingdom (Cait / Lux) or B: Getting skullfucked early on by poke or push, where I'd have to trade cookie in order to prevent the wave from crashing etc. I do find a lot of instances where I regret taking cookies, because I end up leaving laning phase with one or two left.

[@sqfzerzefsdf]

if you take cookies on account of poke/ struggling early you're never wrong. even if you have some left that usually means they just didn't punish you hard enough during lane and you're probably doing well enough where having had something else isn't going to flip the coin your way either.

[@HSFJepsen]

@@sqfzerzefsdf Ofc anything with a grain of salt, it is SoloQ after all XDD

[@mrmatejator]

Cookies + manaflow band for that sweet +400 mana on Jayce with Manamune.

[@danielzavala3746]

Would the same apply to riven as well? Diamond+ players take boneplating/second and unflinching. While lower elo players take transcendence and gathering storm.

[@Plokus]

I love this format

[@jaymthesn5981]

Cool to see you on the Moon.

[@jonass.7668]

Amazing content, need more please :D

[@Lardum]

Ho LS. On moonstone Enchanters I personally feel that scorch is either just better than GS or at the very least equal depending on how fights will be conducted. I can sometimes be quite hard for Enchanters to be able to either keep up Moonstone/proc it outside of their ally buffs which are not exactly low cool down. I quite often find that scorch allows me to get a couple extra moonstone procs in a teamfight that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise while playing especially Yuumi and to a lesser extent the rest of them. Now the argument could be made that if you simply manage your abilities better and are able to consistently time them with the 2 second cd of moonstone that you're then going to get more out of GS. Specifically for Yuumi it can actually be pretty challenging to get and keep moonstone fully stacked in the mid to late game transition before you're able to secure AH and levels due to her pretty long cooldowns and inability to use autos outside the small windows she's afforded due to her W's cd when jumping off and on an ally

[@andyhuynh2625]

The only enchanter you can argue Scorch on is Soraka. Other than that, Gathering Storm gives AP. Which increase the shields and heals. The more shields and heals you cast throughout a game, the more valuable Gathering Storm will be. You don't pick enchanters to crush early game, you pick it for their utility. So Gathering Storm is just better in almost every situation. Especially because enchanters will never buy actual AP items, except maybe Mejais. Also your argument for Scorch doesn't make sense. Scorch only procs when you hit a spell. So if you're saying it's hard to get Moonstone procs, then that makes Gathering Storm even more valuable. Because if you're not hitting spells in a teamfight. Then the AP from Gathering Storm will make your heals and shields better for your teammates.

[@TheFawkesGaming]

This bit is probably highly negligible in the long run, but it also gives a slight extra bit of uptime for presence of mind's mana regen if your trade is using a q to poke on her

[@UnmatchedSkills]

cookies and scorch, cookies and scorch, i'm a little lad that likes cookies and scorch

[@danielzavala3746]

Camille takes cookies and magical footwear. What other alternatives are there for runes? The precision tree? Presence of mind and bloodline?

[@adicos267]

Footwear or Future's market and approach velocity

[@KillaZami]

tenacity is always a great choice

[@InstancesKMS]

i enjoy these videos they feel like season 4 LS which is why i came here.

[@astra9659]

I used to take cookies and scorch with ryze before the item reworks with first item corrupting potion for an extremely powerful early game paired with ignite

[@sacrijuts7265]

Just wanna point out the little SQL reference in the thumbnail that I wasn't prepared for ^^

[@lordbalzamore7692]

I saw the title and screeched

[@Viridian084]

Love this stuff, hopefully you keep making them since digging for clips is a bit annoying and the reason I don't use Twitch.

[@myspaceimnic]

Taking cookies with the insta pot rune that's also in the inspiration tree can make for some pretty fun jebaits though.

[@MrJeppe313]

LS talking about League without mentioning Starcraft challenge (impossible)

[@seashore4050]

I love these typah videos keep it going

[@comradetucker9563]

loving the flat earth and watermarked background haha

[@jeanfouche3904]

Nice video, I would like to see videos with others concepts : the new ultimate gold rune, overgrowth ( ls said it was a bad rune), value of frozen heart. Good content !

[@Basher252]

I would really like to see some stats, on how a rune like second wind, or boneplating is actually "regen/saving" you HP in the early game. Because there is an argument that they are just dominant in efficiency, rather than just better after X minutes compared to cookies.

[@necrogon22]

You see, from the moon, we finally get to see the earth how RJS see's it.

[@lennyface5314]

Runes and Items are a more important topic than champions, imo. Would love to hear your thoughts on the 4 different hunter runes! Also, yeah I imagined the Liandry's Salesman himself would love Scorch

[@darkjackl999]

I remember i had a bit where i cheesed mid as corki with ignite corrupting pot scorch electrocute E max it was fun

[@heilokcd2703]

I take cookies as Blitz and Leona supp, because i have no money for sustain or mana and want to take Glacial Augments and Item Cooldown reduction for vision in quite a few matchups. It allows me to stand a chance if i have an unlucky start against a poke lane.

[@svendahlgren3443]

This was a great video!

[@TheNewAppa]

Shouldn"t this be on the main channel ? Good video as usual nonetheless 👍

[@BoyNextDoorr]

How can i focus on what he talks if his eyes are so mesmerizing 😍 Love Shadow

[@carronline1]

its less about the rune and more about how people use it. there will always be a place for any rune/item when the players learn the best time to use them

[@alonsouch]

I don't see how anyone could not love LS.

[@Gokai_]

I never knew why LS hated cookies cause I'm not a regular viewer. But I always take cookies in order to make sure to not die too early in lane, meaning I actually always used it how LS wants it to be used, lol. Feels pretty good ngl. Also scorch is nice in a matchup like Kennen vs Garen where you want to have that extra second damage so that his passive doesn't reactivate.

[@ventosas_ortiz7546]

keep doing this content ls u help so much the game

[@ngnl_irisoul]

I only take cookies when im facing adcs as a mage, the mana u need to just match waveclear or to top em is actually pretty costly

[@jonathanwedler7051]

Yeah but you're not a proplayer. As a pro it's expected that you learn trait patterns etc so you can actually farm safely without misusing mana. It's also always possible to take tear and scale mana as well.

[@samquinn2129]

Bad, but just saying. I like cookies on Tahm Kench, you can take big trades with your Grey Health, and when you chug a pot/eat a cookie, you start regen-ing your Grey Health into HP. Cookie also give you %MissingHP back, so you get to double-dip with the %Missing + GreyHealthRegen.

[@Businessonly752]

That flat earth in the back is pretty funny

[@xertul2865]

U mean the moon?

[@bundung123]

My man is blinged out the wazoo

[@valentinorsi6310]

Idk if you're already planning on it or discarded such idea, but I hope you take a look on 'bad' items that are usually built a lot (So, Night Harvester, Evenshroud, Collector, maybe some other...) and maybe some ideas to buff them in clever ways (like making them much cheaper and cutting something, or repurposing the item completely but keeping its nature / function) I'm still impressed on how Harvester and Collector have gone untouched ever since item overhaul preseason.

[@TheZkiller]

Okay question what's a better secondary tree for sylas if not going biscuits and cosmic insight.

[@VietSytlezzz]

How are you doing a video on the moon? LS truly goes above and beyond for his fans 👌

[@nielsjansen247]

What is your thought about scorch on moonstone champions? I sometimes take it on champs like Yuumi because scorch makes it so you're in combat longer because the enemy is burning making it more likely moonstone is fully stacked for the whole duration of the fight. Do you think this is worth it compared to the extra ap gathering storm would give?

[@happycamperds9917]

Interestingly a lot of Vel'Koz supports, one of the most aggressive in the game, takes cookies and scorch almost every time. Cookies makes sense because he can't restore mana with Q without stealing Cs, but I'm not a big scorch fan.

[@brawln9550]

He's just constantly throwing out qs all lane. Id day scorch on velkoz support is probably one of the better uses of it. Velkoz q mana id so minimal you literally just spam them and when you get lost chapter its much worse

[@paragrin8385]

the captions picked it up as you saying it's celeste instead of it's ls

[@RuloSrb]

cookies and scorch sounds like a really good ice cream flavour.

[@ok-nm5jy]

I use both on nami, cookies are super good when you run out of mana, and scorch is good poke

[@razorki4996]

I would like to ask from a sustain standpoint in a matchup example cassio vs viktor wouldn't it be more beneficial to have cookies in tandem with scorch due to the damage over time in her kit? Mr. LS you most definitely make good points about where the current gamestate is with that said keep up the good work and thanks for the enlightening perspective I did not think about that in the way you protrayed.

[@andrejlazic8809]

Love this type of videos

[@SmugHomura]

LS once again unleashing his giant brain on us mortals now confirms we live in the best timeline. Jokes aside, I'm greatly enjoying these series of videos. I've been dying to talk about League on a deeper level and thus far it's been pretty rare to find likeminded people. I hope this will shake up the status quo a bit ^_^

[@Foxcs_]

150 mana going into a muramana whilst being a champion going into the inspiration tree (corki for first strike) is good though

[@lychee_ice]

Hey, I think you need to make a video on Collector. You've talked about it a lot, but people still to this day don't seem to understand it

[@purpledabs]

Taric is a champion that comes to minds that do well with biscuits

[@tsunika26]

I love Cookies and Scorch BatChest

[@NutLump]

I use cookies to freeze better against ranged vs melee matchups. taking minion aggro and possibly some harass is annoying and i like to stay healthy to prepare for ganks or herald/drake and not give a 1 for 1, especially since i dont have a full grasp of all dmg thresholds.