Why are Plug-In Hybrids Popular? Chinese EV makers report record Oct

[@DaveTeng-g6g]

Hi always enjoy your video, very informative. I owned a Sealion 6 for about 4 months now, just love it, meet all my criteria and all I ever wanted in a car without breaking my bank account. Just 2 weeks ago was taking a visitor to the Pinnacles (am from WA), 3/4 way was stopped by a ranger and was told that there was a serious bush fire and I need to use a different way. After travelling around, first was a dead end, then another 2 road closures, I must have spent 3-4 hours on some unfamiliar roads (we eventually turned back to Perth). So I told my wife and the friend that we would definitely be in a panic mode if my car is an EV and not PHEV. In short, due to unforeseen circumstances PHEV definitely gives us the peace of mind without range anxiety when venture out.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Glad you got out of there safely!

[@jeffwallis6696]

I currently own an ICE ute an and an ICE SUV (Volvo XC40). I occasionally tow a fairly light (1900kg) caravan. I’ve ordered a Shark and will most likely replace the SUV with a BEV within the next 12 months. The Shark looks like it will be super comfortable for long trips & it’ll easily tow my caravan. But most of all it’ll allow me to relax about if, when & where I charge, particularly as I venture west away from major population centres. The BEV will meet all my regular day to day needs and reduce my servicing and fuel costs. The BYD PHEV is an ideal fit for me currently and I imagine it will be for many others as well.

[@200mphgt40]

Bingo. We need to tow our camping trailer out and about away from chargers and even any form of power sometimes when we go camping. Hence a PHEV works well for us. Over 90% use around our city is on EV only. But we also can go anywhere without worry, and do it while towing, which can easily half EV range at highway speeds. No regrets here. Oh...we also have a BEV, they're great too. But that's for a different use case.

[@jamiesultana3725]

As mentioned in the video, it's all about the charging infrastructure in Australia and the fact that it's not always guaranteed that particular chargers at particular locations are actually operational when you need them. This is why I don't have a BEV and decided to go down the PHEV road. In Australia especially, it gives us the best of both worlds - EV range for those short distances around town and the internal combustion engine that's fit for the purpose of a highway run when there isn't much regenerative braking going on. Christmas is coming and my idea of a good time wouldn't be taking a BEV on a road trip only to find out that arriving at a defective DC charger that will not allow the ability to recharge. No such problem with a PHEV..

[@Deandzzzzzz]

I drive a Sealion 6 premium since this June. I’m not a BYD fanboy but I love this car SO DAMN MUCH! It meets all my needs under ALL circumstances. Whether driving in EV mode for urban commute or being away from home to work at regional areas for projects couple of days per week, the car always delivers great saving! Especially at regional areas where public charging is currently seriously lagging behind, I can simply drive to the nearest petrol station to top up & go. The fuel consumption of DM-I system is so unbelievably low that I don’t think Toyota RAV 4 can do any better. Ofc if I can charge at home utilising on the nighttime EV saver plan it’s like $1.5 for 90ish km from 100% down to 15% SOC. Feels like cheating!! Again this car is not perfect but def ✅ all my boxes😊

[@honesty_-no9he]

SEALION 7 pure EV is better. PHEV are horrible. RE-EVs make more sense but pure BEV make the most sense.

[@jamiesultana3725]

@@honesty_-no9he: Are you in Australia? Do you have any real idea how bad public charging is once you leave the capital city and head out to the regional areas? Regardless of pure EV being 'better', it won't be for you if you're 600km from home and the charger you arrive at is not working. You'll be up shit creek without a paddle....

[@payitforward9442]

PHEV is a great way to introduce consumers to electric without range anxiety. I have a Shark ordered and my son has just bought a Sea-lion 6. I don’t think I would have considered a full EV at this stage.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Great to hear - You could potentially only use the battery for 90%+ of the year!

[@payitforward9442]

@ I intend to plug in as much as possible! Have solar for when not at work.

[@moestrei]

Only non EV owners have range anxiety.

[@tysonfinn1470]

​@moi had more range anxiety in my navara than my teslaestrei

[@intrusivethought]

@@moestrei…Or people who tend to do long distance driving in the bush.

[@l33tr4n55]

PHEV is great 90kms daily driving... charge it at night When going on a road trip, use Dino juice

[@AllTerrainActionEV]

Ooo Dino Juice love that term 😅

[@jamiesultana3725]

...nothing wrong with that Dino 'go-go' Juice!

[@L33Tr4n55-a]

@@jamiesultana3725 wars in Middle East, Syria, Ukaraine are directly linked to Oil and Gas :D ... Wasting lots of tax payers' money > and we don't have CHEAP PETROL

[@user-pp6kw6yl6z]

I've only recently come across your channel and really like your insights. Keep up the great work. I have ordered a byd shark, coming from a long line of diesel 4x4's. The shark offers me an EV for around town during the week, but retains the ability for me to go places where charging infrastructure doesn't exist and may never exist (fraser island etc). I would prefer the shark was more offroad capable similar to some other byd's but can only get so much for $58k. For people like me, I think PHEVs can be considered a best of both worlds solution. A BEV may never work for me personally, that will depend on charging infrastructure where I need it as well as driving range.

[@John-p7i5g]

Better off-road tyres will give you quite a bit if off-road ability. The torque on the Shark from zero makes this a pretty capable beast.

[@allanmorgan4976]

The weekly running cost on these cars will be next to nothing if you consider most people only drive 30-40klm a day…no brainer for me

[@LudicrousFeed]

Yes absolutely especially if you charge most days

[@moestrei]

@@allanmorgan4976 You can cover that with a clapped out Nissan Leaf for under $10k.

[@dazaah4288]

PHEVs are a bridge between ICE and BEVs. In that they represent something people are more familiar with, without needing to swallow the entire Red Pill and go 100% EV, which is a more painful but life-changing truth, even if EVs are inevitable. Range, charging infrastructure, and cost of ICE/PHEVs versus BEVs (hint: most people don't want to pay the EV premium prices we see these days), and this short-term PHEV growth is not so hard to understand.

[@johnemerson5383]

PHEV's are great for Australia. They totally remove range anxiety. We have rubbish charging infrastructure in Australia and it's going to be that way for many years. Most people will use PHEV's on EV mode for the majority of their driving but have the backup of a petrol motor when needed. I'm waiting for BYD to import the Leopard 5.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I had a test drive of the FCB in China earlier this year … good fun BYD Sea Lion 7 | BYD Shark 6 | Denza Z9 | Fang Cheng Bao 5 Test Drives kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2PXppt8rpqKbac

[@robertcudlipp3426]

EV'S wont take off until the charging system is vastly improved. The 129% shows what the market wants.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Hard to argue

[@Rabs73]

Its an issue unless you have a Tesla. Over 100 Supercharger sites and growing. Travel is easy. The problem is Musk has put 1000s of EV interested Aussies off the brand. I know lots personally. They would buy an EV if they had access to the entire Supercharger network but won't touch Tesla or use their network. So they have moved from considering a BEV to a PHEV....

[@robertcudlipp3426]

@Rabs73 Has Musk tweaked Tesla superchargers to prevent e.g. BYD owners from using them ? Fwiw, there are an absolutely amazing number of Tesla chargers, in 2 x 5 minutes drive from where I live?

[@tysonfinn1470]

I live in a mining town. Everyone is baffled at how I can have an electric.

[@paulc6766]

@@tysonfinn1470 It would be nice if you would tell us more.

[@jasonkemp8385]

BEV all the way for me (love my Seal so much), my concern with the uptake of PHEV is that with more on the road and if the owner is also using DC charging on road trips to use the battery only side, then wait times will only increase for charging. As you mentioned it "may" encourage more installations of DC chargers around the country but on my interstate road trips from regional Vic to Southern NSW there is only one to two 50Kw DC chargers in towns and they are usually always being used - especially in the peak holiday times. TLDR: We need A LOT more installed in regional areas and also to be reliable (so many break down)

[@LudicrousFeed]

I think that’s the key - we just need more DC chargers in regional areas

[@jasonkemp8385]

@@LudicrousFeed 💯 Tom.

[@xboxice2005]

I think people should have the choice BEV, Hybrid, plugin hybrid or petrol, i prefer BEV but that doesn't mean everyone should like what i like :)

[@LudicrousFeed]

Well said. I used to think we should all go BEV also but if the infrastructure is inadequate then we need to make alternative options available until such time it is

[@jamiesultana3725]

@@LudicrousFeed: hence why I decided on the Outlander PHEV (which I picked up in April this year - just as the BYD Sealion 6 was being introduced to Australia). I sometimes kick myself that I would've been better off with the BYD....

[@John-p7i5g]

PHEVs which are architecturally BEVs just with a petrol REx make perfect sense for Australia. The only caveat is range should be minimum 109km and you should be able to fast charge them above 80kW. That means when on a road trip you can also recharge the battery. The old non-REx PHEVs are fairly pointless, but these are a completely different proposition.

[@stuartmarshall7099]

BEV owner since 2018. I make it work easily for me living and driving around Sydney. However a recent trip to the nation's capital reminded me how poor the infrastructure is. Sure I was able to locate 5 nearby fast chargers to my location. On closer inspection, 2 were out of order and the other 3 were 50kw to 70kw. These should not be classified as fast! Long story short, it was a pain in the bum to get charged for my return trip to Sydney.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Thanks for the comment - EV charging reliability (outside of the Tesla SC network) remains an issue sadly

[@davec110]

Bear in mind the PHEVs in China are at least $10kAUD cheaper than BEVs equivalent. The high volume BYD PHEVs like the Qin L DMI that can do 1500km+ only costs $20k-$22k AUD. The best selling BYD is the Seagull EV which costs $15k AUD, value for money is what's driving sales volume.

[@David-z9c5j]

Hi Tom, I have a model 3 , Brisbane based and have done numerous trips between Sydney and Brisbane (for example- nil range anxiety ) We have also ordered a shark 6 due very soon. I guess it’s the utility of the vehicle that we need (excuse the pun) - I figure we have the best of both worlds now - as long as we don’t need to climb steep hills apparently lol , but we shall see.

[@FutureSystem738]

Thanks Tom. I love the idea of the Shark- has decent electric range, yet petrol for when out in the bush. We have a 5.2 year old Model 3 that my wife and I still absolutely adore, but also a Diesel Grand Cherokee for caravan towing. (That’s pretty much all that it gets used for. Every time I drive it I think “Yuck”.) I’d very seriously consider the Shark for towing but my van is very nearly 3tonne so the Shark, rated at 2.5t can’t do the job. There are also almost zero fast DC chargers that will work with a trailer of any kind - so that’s a huge failing. I’m also a little concerned about the hill climb test done in the Shark by another well known KZbinr- (I am sure you’ll know the one that m talking about.) It may, or may not be just an early build car’s software failing. Cheers

[@LudicrousFeed]

There are limits to every vehicle I suppose which probably won’t affect the majority of users …

[@Aussie_Stu76]

I love pure EVs but Australia is king of range when it comes to families and road trips. Lets give it 7-10 years. Once EVs can do 800-1000kms per charge then things may change.

[@LudicrousFeed]

That day will hopefully come but until then we have the PHEVs …

[@tommahon2099]

I think for most people in Australia a range extender PHEV like the Shark and Sealion makes the most sense for a lot of reasons. 1. You don’t need the time or headspace, to plan trips. Lots of busy unpredictable lives out there. And while charging infrastructure is improving it’s nowhere near good enough for a lot of use cases. 90% of my driving is less than 80km a day but the 10% I can’t plan. 2. You don’t need fast charging infrastructure at home or at work. 3. They are a lot cheaper. 4. There is (or will be) a lot more vehicle options. A Rivian R1T would be great for me but the closest I can get here is a Shark. And let’s face it with the price difference I could get a Shark as well as another 2 Powerwalls and solar and a lot of holidays. 5. We want greener options and while most people charge up at night at home, they really are running on coal. Unfortunately the grid is still not clean outside of sunshine hours. If you can plug in to a normal plug to charge at work during the day your range extender PHEV is actually greener than a full EV charging overnight at a home fast charger. Tom I’m all for more great reviews on PHEVs as well as the pure EV’s. Looking to get a Shark early next year but still open to all the new options on the way. It’s fascinating watching this revolution in motion and your a great source of info.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Great balanced points. Thanks for watching my content, will bring new developments to light as they come!

[@johnmarshall6926]

The only reason why I’m seriously considering the Shark 6, especially the uprated towing - 3500kg - version, is the towing range. We tow quite a bit and feel it’s a step backwards halving or worse our existing towing range. Now that would give us range anxiety.

[@reventonrowe6111]

I’ll be replacing my Tesla with a PHEV (a Ute like the Shark). Just better for me. I only do short trips and don’t want the hassle of range anxiety/public chargers.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Interesting … will be curious to see how many BEV owners take this step

[@stuartmarshall7099]

​@@LudicrousFeed I have a model 3 since 2018 and a Jeep Wrangler for recreation. Until they make a proper electric 4x4 I will continue to unfortunately own two cars. The Shark 6 is close but I don't want something that big. I wish GWM would bring out a BEV or Phev Tank 300

[@OTPulse]

I don't like they way they are focusing on only having a small block of 200kw+ charging points and making people fight over them. They should have scalable large EV charging car parks 12, 20 even maybe 30 and when you plug in you can select a charging speed you need with a built in queuing system so if people need something like 250kw they can park and plug in and get a slower speed so they are at least getting something and when the current cars (lets say a bank of 12 but only 3 can do 300kw at any time) getting the high speed no longer need it it will ramp upto high speed charging for the next inline. So people stopping for a longer lunch break can just select a much slower speed and not take up a higher speed if they don't need it (like PHEV owners), and people who need it get it without fighting for the charging spot.

[@fatdoi003]

if certain customers just refuse to buy BEVs then why beat the dead horse but to sell them PHEV instead? in the end BYD is in the business of selling cars whether they're BEV or PHEV as long as people buy BYD

[@jamessutherland3016]

Id like to see more news and information on the expanding charging netwok here in Australia

[@LudicrousFeed]

I cover it on my weekly live streams but will try to do more standalone vids as developments come

[@ghostofdre]

For most people the electric only range of a PHEV is more then enough for most scenarios. You can can build 3-4 PHEV batteries for every full EV battery too, costs are reduced and so are prices. Right now PHEV systems make sense.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Charge it everyday and you’ll have a every economical car: BYD Sealion 6 Dynamic Review Australia Walkthrough Pricing & Specs kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIjHmJqVa8mSZtE

[@MotoGuzziMoto]

Plug-in hybrids might be the death of commercial chargers. Owners will charge at home, or work or at accommodation. Few will pay the high charge rates when it wont save anything over topping with fuel. And I think hybrids are out-selling BEVs due to the inconvenience of public charging, with faulty chargers and holidays queues likely to be the big issues. A well designed hybrid with 100km electric range will provide most of the savings of a BEV without the inconvenience.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I think we're certainly in a state of flux currently ... I agree there's no advantage for PHEVs to charge at public DC chargers (although I did see one at my local charger the other day) unless one does not have off-street parking. Will be curious to see what the mix will be like in 5 years time when we see the advent of (semi)-SSD and potentially EREVs enter the market

[@MotoGuzziMoto]

@@LudicrousFeed Yeah I am all-in on EREVs. That will be the future of plug-in hybrids.

[@anthonyrobida]

I'm sure most people in cities are just doing day to day driving to and from work. The occasional inter city travel is the issue where charging infrastructure is not there or not reliable and or no access at home to charging. We bought a Tesla because of its charging network even though have used it couple of times. Moving away from mechanical engine was a blessing and not filling up at petrol stations (waiting for the low price cycle), not to deal with regular servicing and being told so many components had to be replaced. Personally I would not buy a hybrid because they still need regular servicing and fuel. When battery runs out the engine carries the battery which is heavy and use more petrol.

[@rohankilby4499]

I’ve traveled a lot of the Australian east coast and into western and regional Queensland in my BEV. So far I’ve found access to the Tesla network, not towing anything significantly large and are not being in a hurry means current regional EV infrastructure is just barely adequate and often lacking. As a BEV owner range issues and charging reliability are obviously significantly better closer to larger population centres where this infrastructure is more concentrated and more reliably maintained. As I don’t have this type of access to charging infrastructure I’ve been forced to retain my old 4x4 diesel dual cab ute for heavy, time poor towing missions and remote off road camping trips. Whilst the BEV is super cheap to run and so much nicer to commute and travel long distances in, I really just want to run one vehicle to do all the stuff I like and need to do. So my old ute and newer BEV will become a Shark 6 for a couple of years. I’m certain by then charging infrastructure and battery energy density will let me lose the stinking, toxic, noisy vestigial ICE 👍 Looking forward to that ASAP.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Well said especially from a BEV and ICE Ute owner. I’m hoping CPOs are reading comments like yours … all we ask for is reliable recharging in our regions 👍

[@jovceata]

PHEV are good for anyone that does lot's of KMS and it's better then a pure ICE car but for my needs a EV only works and for that long trip it's fine to stop and do a quick top-up

[@LudicrousFeed]

A lot of Aussies can relate to that philosophy

[@moestrei]

@@jovceata I do 30.000km/a inland with frequent 900km/day trips in a car with over 400.000km on the clock. It's a BEV.

[@Kk-du6ei]

It is the option that a phev can provide, you may not need it but it is great to have it when you need it. Most people are worried about charging station availability and the hustle to look for it. And with the phev this is a non issue.

[@eddybledoeg]

it all depends on your use case and your charging opportunities whether ICE, PHEV/EREV or BEV is appropriate. If you drive primarily long distances and don't have a drive way to charge, ICE or hybrids are the best. Affordable BEVs with extended range of 400 km WLTP means every 250 km stops to charge between 20-80% as short as possible . If this is your average range, then go BEV. And if you do commutes within 100km EV mode and you don't want the hassle to stop to refill on longer trips so often go for PHEV. EREV's are best for commutes till 200km in EV mode, but is more uneconomical than PHEVs due to the heavier weight of a bigger battery.

[@AnarchyEnsues]

byd is going to destroy the rest of the market with these phev

[@John-p7i5g]

Hopefully! I was stuck behind a smoking diesel clunker with serious engine issues this morning. Had to quickly close all windows because of the stench. 🤢

[@jamiesultana3725]

.....can't see it happening. It won't be just BYD going down the road of PHEVs at all. GWM is going there, Ford is going there. BMW and Mitsubishi is already there - and I can see more coming

[@AnarchyEnsues]

@jamiesultana3725 I should say Chinese built cars in general. There is that other plug in hybrid that get 1500km to a tank coming out next year

[@h8rry]

Chevy Volt was way ahead it's time 2012 to 2019 until GM cancelled. I owned pre-owned 2016 Gen 2 Chevy Volt 2019 for almost 6 years ago for half the price of the new one. Now GM in trouble now as all Legacy auto. GM, Ford, Stellantis, VW BMW Benz Volvo Tesla all will disappear unaffordable compared to affordable Chinese EV.

[@asparus]

min 1000km range, min %30-%80 charging time 5 min. After that i will buy EV 😎

[@LudicrousFeed]

That day may eventually come …

[@christover1]

Nothing off road able is available in Australia in full bev. Nothing to do with range anxiety. Cannot buy a bev off roader here, Shark is the closest thing to an off road ev we can have.

[@LudicrousFeed]

Great point. I’m curious to see how the LDV eTerron performs

[@christover1]

@@LudicrousFeed I have waited too long for too many promised off road evs. BYD is real and now, not maybe and is coming. This became more relevant to me now my ICE 4wd is dead and sold. Shark be ev only for me when at home, I do less than 100k a week. Petrol be for trips. Hoping it works out budget wise. My biggest concern is 10 years from now. Will petrol be rare or expensive.

[@christover1]

Terran 9 shows promise, though may not be in my budget. I will look at it, and Jaecoo J6, and Geely Radar if they get here before I close the deal with Shark. Sharks deal with Ironman after market gear is a brilliant move, too. We need those add ons for off road or work site uses.

[@fatdoi003]

@@christover1 in 10 years battery chemistry will change 3-4 times and we may see 1600v platform that charges from 10-80% in 5min...

[@cheungchingtong]

BYD has sub-brands like FangChengBao and Denza, they offer PHEV off-road SUVs. But it is a matter of when they would enter Australian market.

[@satay8167]

Time will tell post march 25 when novated lease tax benefit end for phev. I like to move to shark but my lease end only sept next year and I am looking which one giving me tax benefit and at this stage it’s the bev

[@MichaelSmith-px1ev]

Hi Tom I just think that BYD have found a a cheaper way to manufacture at scale a plug in Hybrid than a BEV’s and improve margins with these cars. It will be interesting with their new Blade battery for 2025 if this brings down the cost of manufacturing and improves profit margin on BEV’s compared to Plug In Hybrids. I also think the Chinese market is crazy where there are so many OEM’s just selling at a loss to gain market share. Margins are tight but I think the cost of batteries will come down where OEM’s will just manufacture BEV’s as it becomes the lowest cost of manufacturing at scale. All other points are immaterial. IMO.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I think so also. This is a stopgap measure to improve the bottom line which is fair enough to appease stakeholders - companies need to stay afloat. Will be interesting as we enter the era of SSDs, Na+ batteries and cheaper Lithium

[@MichaelSmith-px1ev]

Agree different battery chemistries will make a difference. It is a big IF but IF FSD ADAS become a thing then that also becomes very interesting as well.

[@fatdoi003]

only 1 chinese EV company produces its own battery..... BYD.. they have complete control from design to delivery....

[@cheungchingtong]

China = US + Japan +EU, OEMs are fighting for the future.

[@garryellis3085]

I'm not a supporter of hybrid technology. The original idea of Bevs was to ween the planet off our addiction to fossil fuels including the global pollution of the land, sea and atmosphere etc. As Australia is an net importer of oil the uptake of Bevs would reduce our reliance on imported Arab and Asian oil. However, for purely selfish reasons why would you purchase a vehicle that had both new and old technologies. An undersized battery that doesn't get you very far mixed with an ic engine that still requires regular services like oil changes etc including the need to pump gas and spew toxic pollution out the exhaust. Don't forget the massive problem with plugin hybrid fires. The research is showing that phevs are more than twice the fire risk of ice vehicles, which are in turn 10 times more likely to catch fire than a Bev.

[@LudicrousFeed]

100km is a reasonably distance - I think most people wouldn’t travel that far each tbh. Actually ironically as I reviewing the BYD SL6, I was wondering whether the petrol would get stale from lack of use over time lol. However you’re right about the fire risk though … logically speaking having a combustion engine next to a lithium battery 🤔

[@jamiesultana3725]

@@LudicrousFeed: then again the way I see it, if PHEVs are more than twice the fire risk of ICE vehicles and 10 times more likely to catch fire than a BEV, there's a lot of people out there that didn't get the memo about that one! If the news and KZbin was filled with videos of PHEVs catching fire, companies like BYD wouldn't sell them because nobody would buy them. That's just my opinion about it...

[@cheungchingtong]

Over 1000 DC fast chargers in the whole country? You mean 1000 chargers or charging stations?

[@LudicrousFeed]

Locations/stations. Each station may have up to multiple plugs

[@cheungchingtong]

@@LudicrousFeed Lol, I was shocked listening you say 1000 chargers thought only 1000 plugs, cause in my city along we have over 1000 fast charging stations.

[@iamlsd12]

BEV only for me I just don’t see the point of lugging around a petrol engine and fuel tank. If you’re like me and a trip that is tricky for a BEV comes up once per 2 years you car share or hire. If you need close to 1000 Kms range several times a year than go petrol car for that and BEV for your daily driver

[@LudicrousFeed]

Good philosophy which I agree with. But I can also understand that some people want just one car that can do it all and given how well priced the SL6 and Shark 6 are … it’s very compelling for many!

[@tommahon2099]

You’re not really lugging around any more. I believe most of the time pure ev is a heavier car than a rang extender phev.

[@moestrei]

As an electronics engineer let me tell you that hybrids seems like a good idea first but are actually a really bad idea long term. You have 2 drive trains to maintain and the tiny and thermally badly managed battery has to cycle much more than in a proper EV. They therefore fail as early as at the 100.000km mark and are very expensive to replace.

[@John-p7i5g]

Batteries are not expensive. Heading for US$50/kWh. So a 30kWh Shark 6 battery will cost $1,500 US or about $2,500 AUD, plus labour.

[@moestrei]

​@@John-p7i5g Yes, but not from your local BYD dealer.

[@John-p7i5g]

@@moestrei I think by the time the PHEV battery needs replacing (which I believe is guaranteed for 8 years anyway) prices will be even lower than what I quoted.

[@moestrei]

@John-p7i5g 8 years and how many kilometers? Time will tell that PEHVs were a passing mistake in automotive history.

[@John-p7i5g]

@@moestrei I think it will be more nuanced, a stepping stone rather than a mistake. Rather than a hard shift to EVs, PHEVs with much longer range will start to appear eg 200km EV/ 700km petrol until finally there are chargers everywhere, solar rooves are the norm which don't even require plugging in, and petrol / diesel ceases to be relevant, then people will no longer buy PHEVs, and those that have them will just use the EV component. Pure BEVs probably dominate from the end of this decade.

[@cokeypokey1]

The problem with ev is the 8yr battery warranty depicting the standard life. A fuel efficient petrol can last for many decades. Resale on ev and purchase on 8 yr old vehicle is a gamble. At least with phev you got motion lotion when battery fails and the minimal battery is in the boot and accessible for repair.

[@LudicrousFeed]

I’m still waiting for my EV to fail lol: Original Tesla Model S 70D Battery Degradation and Cycle Life Analysis kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGawfqmwgMl-nKc But on a serious note the BYD DM tech is such that it’s an EV first so the engine is there to support the battery and electric motors if needed

[@stuartmarshall7099]

🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

[@stuartmarshall7099]

EVs aren't like a TV remote control. The car will fall apart before the battery does.

[@murraysumpter8730]

Plug in hybrid Vs self charge hybrid give me the self charge hybrid every day..

[@LudicrousFeed]

How to stir up an EV fan: call a HEV self-charging 😅

[@murraysumpter8730]

@LudicrousFeed I think you get idea where this is going nevertheless..:)

[@robertimrie3710]

You need more information. What are the numbers not percentages from a low base. Outlander was available for years but never sold well . Who is buying PHEVs? Private or fleets. How are these vehicles being used, does it suit the PHEV use case and what segments are selling best? On top of that you have conservative buyers, media misinformation and buying decisions that are less than rational. We are ute obsessed almost like a gender identity thing and a bigger is better mentality. Too many issues for a short comment, but BEV is the solution we need and i think for most it is the logical choice

[@LudicrousFeed]

I don’t disagree, I still think BEV is the future but the numbers don’t lie … BYD AU is claiming the SL7 DM-i is now the best selling car in their fleet

[@phoarey]

Buy a PHEV and eliminate zero ICE repair and maintenance costs. Potentially add R&M costs through complexity. A seriously dumb idea for most drivers, i suspect. I said as much to a 74 year old friend with 95% plus city driving needs who said he'd "contemplate a plug in but not an EV".

[@LudicrousFeed]

I think if you’re doing 95% only city driving and the occasional long drive on the major arterials then there’s a case for BEV But if you’re regularly driving to areas with inadequate highway charging then that’s where a PHEV may come in handy

[@tommahon2099]

@@phoarey the range extender motors are very low maintenance. It’s amazing how much cheaper, more efficient, longer lasting and lower maintenance a motor can be when it is designed to work in a narrow rpm/gear ratio. Different kettle of fish for traditional hybrid ice motors which need to have all the compromises of pure ice motors.

[@johnmarshall6926]

The only reason why I’m seriously considering the Shark 6, especially the uprated towing - 3500kg - version, is the towing range. We tow quite a bit and feel it’s a step backwards halving or worse our existing towing range. Now that would give us range anxiety.