Bianchi Fork Failure - And a Rant

[@jakobthastum9098]

You're not ranting just stating fact. I've been cycling for almost 40 years, and is still very active year round. When I build up my bikes I look for functionality and serviceability = less integration and I prefer mechanical shifting. The bike industry trying to push equipment solutions to problems that don't exist and in turn creates and manufactures poorly engineered products. Thanks for exposing Them. 👍

[@TheKryztiandivor]

Very well said "...solutions to problems that don't exist". 👍

[@nellyx1x493]

A very worthwhile rant. From what you and others have exposed I certainly wouldn't ever purchase a bike with similar internal routing. Thankfully there's models out there without this nonsense, if these eventually disappear I can see myself going down the custom frame route rather than mass manufacturing to avoid this placing of marketing bs above safety. Can confirm from a recent top end frame straight out of the box from one of the biggest manufacturers that even a simple QC check appears to be worryingly non-existent, with the prices they're now charging this is not acceptable.

[@jameshoward9700]

"A little bit out of hand." That'd be right! Internal cable routing through the headset/steerer? Death on a stick. On a gravel bike??!! Madness. Short of a pro road race bike or TT bike, this is an utterly unnecessary trend that is going to kill someone. Or probably has (and the grieving family paid off/NDA'd). Props to 3T for making a full aero bike WITHOUT internal routing. Also Giant for keeping external routing on the TCR. Internal cables are also a complete nightmare to travel with, let alone spanner. Props to you for keeping this issue alive (unlike the general cycling media that just exists to flog 'new.'). As informed cyclists, we have a duty to spread this information to all - it could easily be you/your wife/husband/kid whatever next.

[@eugenedreyer4805]

I still can’t get my head around the fact that you can buy a fabulously engineered and complex Japanese, Italian or German motorcycle for the same price as an under-engineered and overpriced carbon road bike - seriously awful incident, it’s proving really hard to find a bike I can service myself ATM.

[@slasher9883]

I agree, it's ridiculous when you consider that comparison, but it goes to show how much profit they are making on each bike. And how well their marketing works. And how many suckers there are in the cycling world.

[@eugenedreyer4805]

@M570 yes and it’s labour intensive -definitely wouldn’t go for full carbon anything atm..

[@RyonBeachner]

You can service it yourself ATM. Just go get more money out of the ATM. Oh wait you meant the other ATM. My bad. 😂

[@slasher9883]

@M570 Maybe Raoul can do a video on what a high end carbon frame costs the manufacturer ex-factory. Hint- it's in the mid hundreds of dollars for even the highest end carbon frame. Everyone in the bike industry knows this. If you think the fact that these are made form carbon is the reason they are so expensive you are very much mistaken. It literally is all profit.

[@primarottabikes]

Try Winspace or Pardus. Legit bikes with very fair price

[@StanEby1]

You are right on everything. Common sense, clear thinking and an awareness of practical realities needs to return. We have become irrational slaves to over-blown popular trends. We lose fundamental virtues over gluttony for marginal gains and for the vast majority of us it is only a psychological status game. Manufacturers are counting on our behaving like privileged, entitled, spoiled children. All the best.

[@bonzobanana1]

I have no idea which factory Bianchi uses today for this particular model but remember about 3-4 years ago when I was interested in the cycling industry and doing some research many of their bikes were coming out of fuji-ta in mainland China. Also I found out that one manufacturer was doing a factory door price for a open mould carbon frame for about $80 at that time. Lastly I managed to find myself on a Chinese forum by translating my english search into Chinese and then using that chinese to search Chinese forums and then translate back to English and found some postings where the Chinese were very happy in that Bianchi were selling their low cost Chinese bikes at such inflated prices in Japan and ripping off Japanese consumers who they didn't seem to like. The chinese brand was 'Battle' and were basically the same quality bikes as Bianchi. I should point out fuji-ta are by far the biggest bike manufacturer in China and have made a huge number of bikes for famous brands, Cannondale, Specialized etc as well as their own Battle brand bikes. It's funny you get these Chinese bikes being sold by so many different western brands at hugely inflated prices and each putting their own marketing on them, like the cycling history of Italy or engineering excellence of Germany etc and they are just repackaging Chinese bikes with slightly inconsistent quality. Always worth looking at the Quest Composites site in China as they make CF bikes for Trek and Canyon as well as other brands I'm sure and their factory images on their site are quite shocking in the conditions they show and those are the images they show on their site so perhaps day to day conditions could be worse. I suppose its no different to the cheap Bangladesh clothes we wear, where people are locked into the factory (women mainly) and not allowed to leave. Hence the factory fires where few people escaped. Such factories have produced cycling clothing and shoes. It's never about how much something costs to make its always about how much someone is prepared to pay. If someone will pay $12k for a CF road bike then such a product will be made even if manufacturing cost is only $600. Careful marketing and appealing design might make someone pay such money even if the product is actually quite poor and dare I say it actually a bit unsafe.

[@WashichawbachaW]

The problem now is not just manufacturing quality anymore. It's engineering which these Chinese manufacturers are just following from these western brands. If they design this integrated system safely, this things should not be happening.

[@lockonyuan231]

Thats untrue, fuji-ta is a OEM company, it will order parts from the manufacturer. There are too many manufacturers, and anyone can give them orders. The quality depends on cost, cost will affect everything. And hi bro, there isn't any illegal confinement, especially in the industry area. That will waste more money to satisfy the same standard.

[@lockonyuan231]

@@WashichawbachaW Bingo, Maker isnt designer, Chinese is very hard to touch design detail.

[@bonzobanana1]

@@lockonyuan231 What is untrue? Who mentioned illegal confinement? What is the point you are trying to put across if you can summarise it.

[@bonzobanana1]

@@lockonyuan231 Fuji-ta have a huge portfolio of bike designs as you can see on their web site, they do their own engineering, testing and certification in house but of course some brands will want custom frames and forks but others will use open mould frames etc and the same brand may vary this by price point. As far as I understand there can be some minor customisation of designs without the full re-design and re-certification process but not sure about this. I.e. cosmetic changes to the frame and forks without making structural changes but I guess this depends on the moulds and mould inserts. Quality I'm sure will vary but its the same manufacturing team and engineers being used across brands but materials used and final checks could vary. Many brands will use different factories for different quality levels. Merida and Giant are quite expensive now as OEM manufacturers so some brands will only use them for their high end bikes and will use lower end factories like fuji-ta for mid-level or low level bikes. I think Specialized does this or did this. As a consumer you get snippets of information at different times and have to form a picture. You can see Specialized bikes being manufactured in a recent fuji-ta video but sometime before that high end Specialized bikes were being made by Merida who used to be part-owner of Specialized and maybe still are.

[@SwearyCyclist]

Always common sense from you. The marketing of these products are taking over from good engineering.

[@gpurkeljc]

Total cable integration must be becoming a legal nightmare for the bike manufacturers. I expect that they will start to return to less integration. Models that have bucked the total integration trend like the Giant TCR all of a sudden seem so much more appealing.

[@sbccbc7471]

That's why I prefer the TCR Advanced over something like the Émonda. Hell, I even almost bought one.

[@hippoace]

Everyone was laughing at the 2021 Giant TCR for the lack of integration. Guess who has the last laugh now

[@8paolo96]

it also has a bigger steerer, so probably it's even safer

[@jjmoto65]

Love my 2018 TCR Advanced pro with rim brakes

[@karlwalters3763]

@@jjmoto65 Same here!

[@TheKryztiandivor]

My current bike is Cannondale Supersix evo hi-mod 2017 with rim brake/mechanical gears. I was very close to buy new Supersix w' disc brakes/internal stuff. With these problems with various top-end bikes, I definately keep my current bike and won't touch these modern nightmares. Thanks again for Luescher for this site. 👍

[@ecycled3d]

As has been said before, thank you for your work. The general public needs to know about these issues unvarnished by marketing spin. As you’ve emphasized, we’re talking about lives here. A bit over a year ago I was in the market for a new frameset (and groupo) and I was looking at many of the big brands out there, Bianchi included, with all of their integrated this and that. I was willing to spend money to get the bike that met my needs and almost went the integrated route. I ended up, by pure luck, going with a slightly older design, non-integrated, but not cheap. Purchased a new TIME Scylon frame/fork, 2018 model, and built it up accordingly. For a while I felt a bit guilty for having gone that route given the frames are not cheap but all of these recent failures, due to poor engineering and marketing bs, I don’t regret that decision at all now. I proudly flaunt my exposed cables everywhere I go.

[@adriankrucker2159]

Oh boy, that just does not get to happen. It's horrible. And not reassuring on safety standards, when such famous companies make these sort of mistakes. I wish the rider a full recovery, and that any costs will be covered by insurance respectively the bike manufacturer. Thank you for your great in depth videos concerning these issues.

[@simonstucki]

thank you for pointing these failures out and making them known! This can't keep happening!

[@danbanham728]

A very good and worthwhile video so thank you for posting it. My friends think I'm a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to progress, my road bike is from 2009, it has external cables which are super easy to adjust, rim brakes obviously, no hydraulics to bleed, rim brakes very easy to service and adjust. Yes my road bike has a carbon steerer but it's easy to check and has no silly internal cabling down by the steerer, the headset bearings and preload ring is easy to check and service as there is enough slack on the cables to drop the forks without having to faff about with the brakes or shifters. I still run mechanical groupset, I don't want to faff about with batteries to go out on my bike. A lot of really good progress has been made over the years with regard to carbon frames and now that progress has been damaged by this drive to go to disc brakes and internal cables. Internal cables running through the downtube or top tube fine, just stay away from the stem and steerer it's stupid. So I will continue to be a dinosaur on my 2009 bike and ensure I can maintain my own bikes easily and cost effectively. I don't care what people think about how my bike looks. As for carbon steerers on gravel bikes thats just nuts. My mountain bike has a hefty front fork and metal steerer and good job too, I think there are limitations for materials and how they are used and a good engineer will say which materials can be used and for which purpose because they know the loads the parts need to go through. Very disappointing in 2021 we are seeing people face plant because of poor design or poor application of materials.

[@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589]

In my little local repair operation, I have to explain to customers that bring in bikes with internal cable routing, with sticky (mechanical) shifting (& that's not even the 'inside the bars/stem/steerer' routing), that, on average, it's going to take twice as long & cost twice as much to replace a cable as it would with external cables/hoses. The only bikes that should have completely internal routing are EPS/Di2/hydro brake road race bikes, for mechanic sanity and customer satisfaction reasons, as well as structural integrity, that Raoul rightly shellacks the soyboy marketers that design bikes today over the lack of. & what does it save you in drag? Canyon wind tunnel tests say 3 watts, at the most. I'd rather 5 seconds slower than 6 months in hospital slower. Well done.

[@michaeldezwart9432]

Problem is we all think our bikes are okay....until we know they are not! Anyway I'm sure mine are fine! Thanks and keep on helping to expose these issues!

[@parmijo]

The industry took us from threaded bottom brackets to BB30, BBright, OSBB, PF30 and PF30a, 386Evo, BB90&95 and the list goes on. Now we are circling back to threaded and T47. The bike industry will go down any rabbit hole as long as they can sell/market it.

[@76booge]

I've recently moved to a titanium road bike, rim brake, external cables, standard stem...... nothing integrated!! Information like you're putting out will hopefully lead to change that needs to happen. Or maybe some class action lawsuits against bike manufacturers to make them all terrified of going down this ridiculous "integrated" path. Notice the priciest bikes seem to be the worst offenders for these problems. Imagine a car brand selling a car where the steering wheel snaps off if you go over a bump? At least the car industry has more integrity than the bike manufacturing industry.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

The Prius was recalled for that a couple of years ago. The steering shaft wasn't sufficiently torqued into the rack's pinion shaft clamp. I think they had to replace a few racks and steering shafts over it.

[@dudeonbike800]

Last week, I pulled a suspension fork off a friend's bike and water and mud trickled out of the head tube. Removed the bottom cartridge bearing, removed the seal and it was literally packed with mud! I laughed as I flushed out the grit & grime. Ended up pretty damn smooth with fresh grease. That was an hour job by itself. With re-doing internal hydraulic lines? 3+ hours, for sure! Maybe the LBS will end up on the plus side, billed labor-wise, despite the industry going consumer-direct. When the crap needs service, expect some big bills!

[@JogBird]

get them to put on a $10 front mud flap, or make one out of a plastic jug and zip ties

[@dudeonbike800]

@@JogBird he has one! But three years with little maintenance will do that. (I need one... better get on that!!! I say this after Tuesday's wet ride with all sorts of crap flying up into my eyes. Past time to put on a guard.)

[@Nivacromcolumbus]

Great video. I’m in the minority as I trust your advise, it is honest and unbiased, a manufacturers nightmare telling the truth. Nothing will stop when riders continue to pay thousands of pounds for frames. It really is a con.

[@veterinarius7646]

"Cycling supposed to be enjoyable and fun, it's a leisure activity, it's not a let's go to hospital and then have months of dental work activity." Love it

[@stevenbrumbaugh7253]

This is the main reason I still ride my Fisher Cronus from 2011. It's not an aero bike or the lightest bike or the newest, fanciest bike, but it's a good bike. It also uses standard parts like a normal seat post, easily accessible cables, and it's a nice riding bike.

[@mattwilliamson1667]

Thanks for the informative video as always. Around a year or so back when the Focus Atlas bike model was released I called the shops mechanic as it too had a similar internal cable setup thru headset. I discussed the same design points and drawbacks that come with this design you mentioned. I would have bought the model bike if it was externally cabled. The mechanic said he would put the points we talked about to the Focus rep when he next dropped by. I do not understand the need for this internal cabling fad, in alloy or carbon bikes. Ive since built up a workhorse alloy hybrid that rides well, day in day out and is easily home serviceable. I think the bike industry has lost the pure simplicity that cycling should offer on many new bikes, to their detriment

[@torma99]

Since I started, to take cycling more seriously, I changed my stem length 4 times, the angle and my bar width 2 times. As my fitness got better, and my fit more aero, I got 15 percent more speed from almost the same FTP. I could do this from nickles, because I could buy cheap and great quality UNO stems, and Ritchey non integrated bars. For me with these integrated nonsense things was the problem, that no cyclist has the ultimate fit from out of the box, so if you have to change the cockpit, you have to throw the whole thing out and shell out a huge pile of local currency. But now this is shifting towards safety and the simple well-being of the cyclist. So these things are now an absolutely no go for me, ever.

[@TheKnacklersWorkshop]

Hello Raoul, Well said... There is a very good book called "Black Box Thinking" that echo's what you are saying about being open about failures if you want to make things better... Keep up the good work raising awareness. Take care. Paul,,

[@Sills71]

The idea of making the cables internal was incorrect from the origination. It offers NO performance gains. Zero. But it does have a very striking appearance. That is what the bike industry trades on today. Bikes are now status symbols that identify their owners as wealthy, no different than a Rolex or Louis Vuitton purse. Disk brakes with external cables are not as attractive as rim brakes with external cables, so the manufacturers had to fix that so they could force disk brakes on the market.

[@ziggybantom]

Spot on Sills. This is driven by fashion in cycling. I think 95% of cyclists are not fit enough to gain any aero advantage from integrated cables. But they want and follow the latest trend. Great view mate and you're totally correct 👍👍👍

[@apair4002]

Disc brake with external cables are not attractive as rim brakes with external cables? How can you conclude that? That is so subjective man.

[@JogBird]

i actually like the look of ext cables, whenever i replace, i look for new colors to try

[@tychoMX]

@Viacheslav heh. Just reminded me of the stories about blown rolexes that were actually used in saturation diving.

[@wrcompositi]

I really don't understand the obsession and attraction regarding hidden cables. There are way more visually significant parts hanging externally on the bike such as chain and derailleurs, why hasn't no one complained about those? It's so pathetic to sacrifice safety and ease of maintenance just to get rid of cables.

[@Christian-pw5ws]

Internal cables look cool... but I'm glad none of my 3 road bikes (bought in the last 2,5 years... two Canyons and one Bulls) don't have them. Nonetheless I remove and inspect the whole fork once every 6 months. Not sure if that will help me avoid it snap, but it's the best I can do. My next bike was supposed to have internal cables (again, because they look cool), but from a safety & maintenance point of view I will avoid that.

[@paulstuart9465]

I don't see this problem going away anytime soon. We're talking high end bikes with poorly designed functional and mechanical strength. We still have expensive carbon bikes arriving with expander plugs that are barely suitable for purpose. It's penny pinching despite exorbitant prices for the customer.

[@jochenkraus7016]

That means you can avoid it by going for the simpler lower tier bikes. Imagine it would be the other way 😮

[@machohogan]

I worked in a Bianchi dealer, one of the largest in the UK (Not Evans) and we had a lot of problems with Bianchi forks. It was always the eyes snapping where the wheels goes in. We put it down to bad transit at the time but who knows. It was a noticeably common occurrence.

[@RabidMortal1]

"Cycling is a leisure activity, it's not a let's-go-to-hospital activity" And "[In a gravel bike] you're looking for practically, you're looking for ease of maintenance...and, IDEALLY you're looking for your fork steerer not to FAIL".... Scathingly hilarious

[@glennoc8585]

That's why I ride a MTB (gravel) with an alloy steerer.

[@nycyclist4154]

I do not like disc brakes at all. It places too much stress on the fork and creates a lot of heat. Now, internal cable may look cool but why do I have to bleed the brakes and use brake fluid? It’s not a car or motorcycle, it’s a bicycle for crying out loud. It took me a long time to warm up to carbón rims. And some of the claims bicycle manufacturers make I now question more than ever.

[@user-bq5nl8xf3y]

Speaking of internal brake cables, a Cervelo S5 headset bearing replacement is a mechanic’s nightmare.

[@jegerm6752]

Cervelo s3 is the same thing. Gotta disconnect everything before you can remove the bearings.

[@fishrowe420]

Trek madone is awful as well....

[@superstrada6847]

Agree totally. I have a new Tarmac SL7. Brought it to my LBS for the recall. Longer plug placed (the headset collar and ring were the updated version already). However on my second ride I hit a large stone shard, hard enough to crush the front carbon rim. Now I am concerned as to the integrity of the steerer tube. To drop the fork for inspection I need to disconnect both hydraulic brake lines etc., I am not confident as to the integrity of the steerer without inspection after such an impact. Thus will need to do this every time after a significant impact, pita.

[@durianriders]

Should have read my bike buyers guide bro! :(

[@Slow.Smooth]

@@durianriders I must admit I WAS WRONG YOU WERE RIGHT . Literally because of discs. Never had this problem before... #carbup

[@XLBikingInternational]

I feel very fortunate to have found your channel. I'm a heavy rider, love new technolgies - but, I'm steering away from carbon as much as I can! The bike industry can do much better, but keeps playing games with our safety and our lives! Thank you for your honesty opinions and spot on analysis! Appreciate it!

[@mathewrose2951]

Back in my day, we had all the aero cable integration we needed from our local hardware store in the form of black electrical tape . . .

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

I've been years hesitating to buy a new bike and wondering if I would regret a purchase because of a faulty bottom bracket. Now, its those fork steerers with these stupid integrated cables. I blame the greedy corporations for coming up with stupid ideas to promote sales and increase profits. I blame greedy influencers like GCN for promoting these stupid superficial ideas by hiring young people willing to say anything to make a living and become "successful". I blame the people for lacking critical thinking, buying into these stupid superficial ideas and buying bikes for all the wrong reasons.

[@jochenkraus7016]

The way we see pro equipment might be a part of the problem. Pro means that it's good, right? That's also how it is to some extent with photo equipment. But would you buy a "pro" car? What might that be? A truck? An excavator? A racing car?

[@apair4002]

Veblen good.

[@jochenkraus7016]

@@apair4002 Maybe that's also a part. I have to admit, the clutter free cockpits with hidden or internal cables look great. Or the molten marble colors on Trek bikes ❤ But for us mortals, conventional designs have some advantages like simpler (and cheaper) production, easier maintenance and more flexibility for adjustment and part swaps.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

Look for bikes that use BSA bb shells. The press-fit stuff is a pain, and a lot of them lock you into using 1 or 2 types of cranksets whether you like it or not.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

@@jochenkraus7016 the thing is that the pros usually only use each bike for one season, and then it gets replaced, unless it breaks before that, and then it just gets replaced early. Pros don't need their equipment to last more than a single race. It doesn't matter if their bike breaks because their sponsors will just get them a new one.

[@alanstons8072]

Great video mate. Everything you say is 100% correct. Been a Bicycle mechanic for 36 years and the shit i see everyday is mind blowing

[@deeplato5647]

LT... Well, the Boulder Colorado Elite Fashion Panty Twisters *MUST* have internal cable routing, full carbon and negative rise stems for personal bests on the gravel race circuits and strava boards. LoL

[@Sills71]

This will only change when one of two things happens... either people quit buying this crap... OR someone successfully sues a manufacturer and wins a huge amount of money, which scares the rest into change. The large lawsuit will only happen when someone is killed or gravely injured.

[@kyle_c936]

Or start featuring issues like this on GCN (as if...).

[@durianriders]

Good luck proving the bike wasnt involved in a crash prior. A good barrister can always push the point ' we dont know what happened to the bike prior to the fail...was it over torqued, crashed etc?'.

[@glennoc8585]

@@durianriders it will take a pro rider probably to have a serious crash due to failure. The professional credentials of a team mechanic and expert witnesses like Raoul could be enough to override reasonable doubt. A civil suit with a well informed jury could put an end to a large manufacturers credibility. People are out to impress and cyclists are the worst offenders even willing to discount imminent dangers.

[@LuescherTeknik]

They settle out of court and keep it quiet.

[@Sills71]

@@durianriders Good point. But in America, if a lawyer takes to a jury it is possible that a large settlement would result. American juries LOVE to hand out huge settlements.

[@Jose__Manuel]

Thanks mister Luescher to say the truth, I was working like bike mechanic and when I saw this kind of bikes... Umm, terrible, pressfit BB terrible, handlebar terrible, axis threated terrible, all in this industry was mading wrong, and this bianchi a SL7 and other is the result but people buy bikes that its cost is 14000 euros or more, crazy. Best regards.

[@chrisstrobel3439]

I snapped the forks clean off my sisters Schwinn 3 speed in 1980 after I hit a railroad track at night. A 7-Eleven rider snapped a fork clean off a steel Serotta built Huffy at one of the 80’s TDF. Being an old guy who’s been at this for decades now I’ve seen frame/fork failures of all types of frame materials in all types of scenarios .. not just carbon, but I fully agree with this rant, and I feel bad for this guy .. I flew over the bars of my Schwinn Stingray in the 70’s and landed on my face with almost the same exact injuries as his .. very very painful, hoping he heals up quicker than I did.

[@costelloandsilke7321]

What can one do, Raoul except agree 100 percent with everything in your video. Contrast the bike situation with FIA regulated motorsports where the structural integrity of race cars is being continually improved - and with no penalty to performance. But today's bike industry is a "triumph" of aesthetics over engineering. Great, until you end up on your face in the gravel - or worse.

[@wysmolek]

If profit minus medical bills and compensation (we don't see any reputation loss)is still an acceptable positive value nothing will change. People forget, new ad video on gcn (or any other popular channel) will show you how the new is so much better than the old one. UCI could probably force companies to put a protective feature but I bet it wouldn't widespread in all lineups (if at all on top of the line product where they can justify the loss in a very small number of parts). I'm afraid that you are a Sisyphus of cycling. What you do is very important but I don't believe it will change anything.

[@villedocvalle]

As a Clydesdale rider I have never seen a need for disc brakes. Always seemed like a gimmick. That’s why I’ll never let go of my 2013 Supersix EVO HM w/ rim brakes.

[@durianriders]

drop the fork out today and check for the ring of death on the steerer. All carbon forks are at risk of this if your headset is ever ridden loose. Alloy or steel forks can come unbonded and need regular inspection around the joins. Ive lost count how many damage forks from ALL materials Ive discovered on riders totally ignorant to the time bomb waiting to happen to them or the next owner.

[@paulhyland4653]

As a bike mechanic I agree with you 💯

[@sepg5084]

Are they absolutely sure they used the recommended torque and the correct length of steerer plug? That's why i don't use carbon forks, metal forks are simpler to use. If practicality is what gravel bikes are for, they will be using flat bars instead of drops. Shimano MT200 hydraulic brakes with a clutched Deore 10 speed drivetrsin is more practical than a GRX groupset. Costs less, easier to work on.

[@slidey1788]

The youngest bike in my fleet just turned 6. I don't think I'll update anything for a little while yet.

[@stevenleffanue]

Seems most of these modern fork failures are due to the 'compression ring'. Redesign the aheadset. Cut the olive and barb off at lever , pull lines thru bar to enable headset bearing replacement. Reroute thru bar.Should be enough slack(appx.1cm) to reach lever. Put on new olive and barb. Done.

[@MerlinMan1579]

I spent 10 great fun years in the cycling industry, but the advent of electronic shifting, and then internal cabling took the joyous simplicity out of the bicycle for me, it became complicated for no real advantage and I was done, but what superb bikes I have sold and ridden over the years. My retirement made me sad as I felt deeply that the Industry had lost its way, but what could I do, nothing. Now I have no problem with discs, but discs and steerer routed cabling is another sad development , that turns the pilot into a Guinea Pig. Not all but most of the big players are so sensitive to this weird idea that pointless, form over function, vanity based unsafe developments is in service to the rider….’out there’. To keep up appearances in the boardroom the integrity of the road bicycle and the safety of the rider is being sacrificed. I would advise riders looking for a new bike now to approach a custom bike builder and buy a well designed, simple and safe frame that is made to fit you, the extra cost now will be money well spent as you will have it for decades, not a season or two and that is an environmentally sound decision as well….bonus.

[@gclh22]

I left the bike trade for many of the same reasons. Customers now being absolutely ripped off by big brands and being sold completely needless improvments. 5 minute jobs now taking over an hour and who would pay for a hours work to lower a stem 20mm. Custom made steel bikes is all I would buy now. Enve carbon is well made I reckon buying Enve Carbon because it won't fail

[@durianriders]

LT I dont think you understand that the new Bianchi and SL7 have a new technology called a self cutting steerer - if the steerer fails it means the bike sensed you needed a lower stack height.

[@LuescherTeknik]

SCS TECHNOLOGY

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

So agree on the silliness of total integration for the sake of aerodynamics. Even if the involved components do not break, TI does not make any sense. First you hide all cables inside the handlebar and the stem to reduce frontal area, but the stem has to be thick as a brick to make them all fit inside. Plus, the bloated aero bars and brick stems are so super stiff that manufacturers widen the tyres up to 32 mm to add more comfort, totally negating all aero efforts.

[@AlvaroQF]

But which is the difference between the compression rings that are supposed to break the steerer tubes and the ones in the past? All the compression rings have been made of aluminium or steel always, and I’m using a 60 size bike which has a hell of large steerer with no marks on it whatsoever, so were is the problem? Why do brands need to install expansion plugs that are large enough to end after the compression ring?

[@fastestmilkman3840]

Serviced many integrated headset/cable bikes and they are a royal pain in the arse. Also ridden a few of them and to me it makes no difference. Recently I've managed to get a trek emonda project one 2019 for a good/cheap price, everything is 'normal', even the brake cable for the fork is external. Super easy to build and service, bang on at 7kg even though it is a disc brakes setup and it rides like a dream. My advice? Less is more.. and don't listen to the marketing.

[@SethJayson]

I love disc brakes but have never understood hydraulics on non-mountain bikes. Who needs that much power on a road (even gravel) and is the feel really worth the hassle? Internal cable routing is a great way to make a simple repair take all day. But what's the top of this look like inside, and how does the steerer break way up there on a first ride? Forks in general scare me. I know people who had faceplant failures back in the 80s on steel, so I don't trust any material inherently. Bad design driven by instagram-friendly design (no cables!) seems to make this worse.

[@ricosalomar]

With carbon wheels, a tiny piece of grit struck in a rim brake pad would cause serious damage to the rim. This means that careful inspection and cleaning must be undertaken frequently. Disc brakes eliminate that. That's the only positive I can think of.

[@SethJayson]

@@ricosalomar I like them with even cheap ally rims b/c if you ride a lot with rim brakes you wear them thin and who wants to rebuild wheels when you can wear down a disc instead? And IME, even the cheap ones (I use Avid BBs all the time) are MUCH better on power than any rim brake I've ever used (esp when wet), and they make a lot less noise than many of the V-brakes I've used. They do add decent weight, of course, and they're not aero, so if rimmies work, might as well use 'em.

[@NewEnglandDirtRoadie]

@@ricosalomar disc brakes on road bikes was an answer to a REAL problem that the marketing executives created. which was carbon rim-brake clincher wheels.

[@larrymcgoldrick3471]

Thanks so much for getting this important message out there.

[@brendonmadden-smith]

Has there been a "similar" Specialized SL7 failure (meaning a complete shearing of the steerer resulting in a crash)? I've been searching, and can't find one.

[@brettpatching]

My thoughts go out to the rider. I hope he is making a quick recovery. (The result could have been even worse.)

[@galenkehler]

"Hope your fork steerer doesn't fail" is the new "Merry Christmas"

[@theoriginalflak]

There's one vague argument with hiding the cables on gravel bikes: bikepacking. Handlebar bags can cause all sorts of squeezing and rubbing of housings / hoses against each other and the headtube . I've had issues with poor shifting performance or cable housings wearing out in a few days of bikepacking / multi day races (side note, I've never had any issues with brake hoses, they seem to be much more durable for some reason). Anyway, the rubbing problem can be reduced in many ways, from changing bag setups to get rid of handlebar bags, using bags with a rigid "cradle", using "bar extenders" as means to push handlebar bag away from the headtube to changing to an electronic groupset or (at least) getting rid of front derailleur (one less cable, one less point of failure).

[@willspower3]

Ouch. The shear is right at the metal insert at the bearing the cabling routes through. Not a good look for FSA. Do some mfgs add a sleeve there?

[@karlwalters3763]

Apparently now with Specialized, before purchase, you either have to have proof of medical insurance or sign an indemnity form. I also heard that Bianchi is thinking of the same practice. True! I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy. If you don't like cables showing on your bike start riding track! lol

[@timjohn64]

Design is part of the problem however not everyone is a skilled bicycle mechanic but many think they are, I have seen so many home mechanic mistakes. Bicycles have become far more complex and require a level of maintenance, detailed procedures and tools which the average rider is not able to perform. How many stem bolts are over torqued, too many shade tree mechanics. I am not a fan of internal cable routing shift , brake cables through the head tube, far to complex. Wireless and electronic drivetrains take away most of these issues and offer an option. If you are not mechanical bring your bicycle to a shop.

[@TheNeelonRokk]

My money is on the integrated cabling, not the discs. Nearly nobody needs integrated cabling, as we are not fast enough for that difference in "drag".

[@discbrakefan]

I think it’s more about the looks and the desirability. Also not a good enough reason.

[@82vitt]

@@discbrakefan 100% they are doing it, because the customer desires it. I have seen it countless times when under a review of a bike multiple commenters moaned about "the lack of integration". Just have a look at the comment sections of Time on their Insta account - regularly someone moans about "still no handlebar integration". So there you go.

[@borano2031]

@@82vitt They review bikes that way to boost sales numbers, not because customers ask for it. Reviewers don´t need your wishes, they need advertizing. Rgr

[@jkk916]

@@82vitt Sadly, this is true. But I also think that is not about the looks. It is about people being stupid and apply some irrational attributes to certain looks. I don't get why a bicycle with hidden cables would look better per se. If you are after "clean look", why having discs is OK then? They are causing substantially more air disturbance than cable housings so they shouldn't be viewed as "clean".

[@nguyenho9591]

What do you think about changing carbon fiber steerers to aluminium so we can still retain the concept of integrated cables?

[@wasupwitdat1mofiki94]

I'm sure you see a lot more of this happening than anyone else and I can see in your expression and tone just how serious it is. You're right, the UCI needs to do what they can which I think would be to band the use of bikes with hidden cables. That would get the message out to everyone and force the industry to change. Most consumers are clueless that is why the Governments step in and make laws and I feel if the bike manufacturing industry is getting this careless then maybe it's time for some regulation.

[@Naptime48]

Full face helmets the next must have gravel accessory!!

[@mattoconnor1694]

I'm not sure I'd go carbon again because of this and many other issue's. My carbon bike (which I love to ride btw) has internal routing into the frame thankfully. So is it just routing at the headset 'these' failures occur? It's great that you are educating people about these problems though LT great work mate.

[@jochenkraus7016]

Many bikes have carbon forks, independent from the frame material. I think all the integration and aero stuff makes the shaping more complicated and potentially weaker.

[@horrovac]

Internal routing through non-moving parts is generally fine. They drill holes to install external routing hardware anyway, so it's a toss-up - internal routing may be even stronger if it was moulded in instead of drilling and cutting through fibres. But when they start routing through high-load moving parts that have a lot of going on, like stems, steerers, crown forks and the like, beware! Caveat Emptor. By all means, DO go carbon - it's a great material for a bike. But above all, don't get the high-end model, the newest model that has just come out, and that promises full pro performance. That's the model they're testing on their customers. You can buy one of these only after enough people have broken their necks riding them to force the company to admit they screwed up and issue recalls or fixes it. Get a middle class model, or a lower end one, and endurance or even gravel bike if you can bear riding one of these things over longer distances (I can't), if you have money and if it pleases you toss out the cheap groupset and non-group components they usually put on those and replace with a 105 or an Ultegra, or, if you have more money than brains, DuraAce XD. Carbon is not the problem. Poor, untested engineering is.

[@monkmchorning]

I'm in favor of running cable and lines through long straight tubes--top tube, down tube, chain stay, fork blade. It keeps them clean and protected, they don't weaken the frame, and with a few tricks they can be threaded quite easily. But running them through handlebars, stems, and steerer tubes is asking for trouble and a maintenance quagmire.

[@maddoc68]

Dear Raoul, just one question: can this type of failure be reduced by using longer compression plugs? Thanks for sharing your information to us riders.

[@janeblogs324]

Reduced sure, but the steerer tube doesn't have a bonded sleeve of steel around it, so the bearing race will eventually wear through the carbon.

[@leftfieldbikehacks1857]

To what degree could this be a problem caused after manufacturing? Could it be caused during fork or stem installation?

[@janeblogs324]

@@leftfieldbikehacks1857 a loose head stem top bolt would cause slop and therefore rubbing wear. There is a tiny compression washer in between the fork and bearing in a typical setup. Its only 4mm tall, so all steering loads are put through a small 4mm patch of the carbon steerer tube. No one installs a compression plug that goes down far enough to support the top bearing loads

[@kendarcie6613]

Do you have an opinion on Argon 18 frames? Gallium?

[@kendarcie6613]

Did I miss it? Why did the fork fail? Over tighening?

[@ftekkie]

Terrible. The braking forces from disc going through the steerer that is compromised by cabling is a very obvious and unnecessary design flaw.

[@hemiboyrcbmxerwilliams7599]

I would love to know what the top rated forks are. Before I buy new forks that is.

[@LuescherTeknik]

So would I, they can be a bit random, that's why I test the ones that I use.

[@nickmannerings3574]

Totally agree.How do you get the message to people that buy these bikes?

[@Hosant123]

My 2017 Roubaix was my first, and last bicycle with internal routing, and that was only the downtube, I cannot imagine the routine maintenance on those with internal headset routing. Now we see that not only they are terrible for maintenance, but they are dangerous too :S

[@drones7838]

Could this possibly have been installation error

[@sc0608023]

It seems this kind of accidents have become more frequent ever since the trend of internal cables starts...coincidence?

[@marcusFZ6]

There is nothing wrong with a rant when it is more than warrantied. The internal routing is all about the clean look of a bike 98%, with maybe a 1% aero advantage and the last 1% because they can. Something has to be done as you said because I don't see things changing any time soon or in the next 2 years. 2022 bikes are done, 2023 bikes are in the design now and ready to go so maybe 2024 there might be a step towards something being changed.

[@lockonyuan231]

Totally agree, in engineering view, there isnt development in several years. So customers didn't pay, and companies have to raise prices to keep profit. Vicious circle

[@rayF4rio]

Watching this while on the trainer with my CAAD 10 mech, rim brake bike. Agree 100%.

[@DaxPlusPlus]

Good rant and totally agree that for a bike that's use case is more or less off road then the idea of using an integrated cable cockpit is pretty bonkers due to all the reasons you gave. However disagree with others saying there is no place for it at all .. a race bike with all cables hidden is a thing of beauty. People saying others don't need it are just old men shouting at the clouds. They may not be able to take advantage of it but I know I and others do. Also, since when has need had anything to do with a persons passion?

[@johndef5075]

You dont need it. But keep telling yourself.....

[@DaxPlusPlus]

@@johndef5075 I don't _need_ 60mm deep carbon wheels either .. but I've got them and love their speed and look. I also race my aero road bike on local 10 m TT's against actual TT rigs and it's faster than some of them and actually faster than my old rim braked, 50mm wheeled TT bike when I actually developed more power. So I'm super happy with integrated cockpit, slippery frame and improved, deep profile wheels.

[@NewEnglandDirtRoadie]

no, they're actually laughably stupid looking

[@HFF2K]

Companies quietly paying off injured parties and/or their families has been going on for a long time. Look up the Ford Pinto scandal of the early seventies - it was cheaper to pay the compensation than modify the design to be safe. So many of the fashionable developments in cycling have made bikes harder to work on and in some cases more dangerous. One of the few improvements is threadless headsets. Many of the others just increase the cost and frustration of maintenance.

[@rob1984p]

Ford also did this in the 90s when they underspecified a tyre on the Explorer from Bridgestone I believe.

[@mikicastan]

Integrated cables makes sense on TT bike only

[@apoc341]

Internal cable routing is all for aesthetics. Everyday people don’t need the minuscule aero gain from internal routing. I always buy external cable routed bikes. Much easier to work on as well.

[@TheAntoine191]

Traditional internal routing is not that bad. Only counterpart is it take some effort to route at first, but full on integration from bar to frame is the sin. It reminds me of integrated seatpost. High end models required it while it made no sense and disappeared in the end.

[@TheAntoine191]

Customer have a reponsability in throwing ridiculous money to get those gimmicks for parade on sunday mornings.

[@Sandzsteedt]

Fully internal cable routing is stupid and especially so when other parts of the bike are sacrificed to make it happen. The argument that cable rub on the outside of the bike is no longer present is true, but now it is on the inside of the bike. If heaven forbid the plastic sheath on a shift housing is worn through then you have steel strands rubbing the insides of the frame and fork steerer down the line destined to cause an accident. Even the plastic sheath is usually enough to damage a carbon frame if it rubs the same spot all the time over time. Only way to know if you have internally compromised bike is to fully dismantle it regularly to check which means many people will not do it due to cost and hassle. Utter pain in the ass due to an utterly pointless and stupid design to appeal to a trend which saves such a miniscule amount of aerodynamic drag that you can barely measure.

[@NewEnglandDirtRoadie]

"cable rub on the outside of a bike"? is that real, or just more marketing scare tactic? all of my bicycles have fully external routing, and there's no evidence of cable rub anywhere. because i use protective tape where needed.

[@worldofameiso5491]

I believe these super light integrated bikes are designed for professional use where bikes are changed multiple times per season. At the end of the season most teams sell off their used bikes both to replace them with the latest model, but also because they know that equipment with thousands of miles of hard use are potentially not reliable enough for more professional use.

[@danbanham728]

The pro's get different bikes to the rest of us, typically a different carbon layup or the steerer has an aluminium sleeve bonded inside to stop it splitting in half.

[@HarryFenton6124]

This is news to me. My pals and I used to scavenge old bike parts from the local tip in the 70s. Rusty old frames and bent wheels. Once we had put them together at least they stayed together. Progress eh? Glad my bike is a steel Condor.

[@datumamasinsuat1134]

The problem may have been caused by the unequal length and depth of the compression plug and the stem.

[@larisonjohnson]

Love the lesson and the common sense reminders. So, is it safe to say that “Moving backwards is less than ideal.”?

[@matteofornero4326]

I am riding a Cinelli Superstar Disc, no problem with the frame and fork after 5000 km and a lot of roads in awful conditions. However, as soon as I manage to sell my Cinelli, I will go immediately back to steel. There is no need of taking unnecessary risks riding carbon bikes of questionable quality in terms of structural integrity. As far as I am concerned, there are only two options right now: A) buy high quality carbon bikes with a design that has been tested for years (i.e. Time Alpe d'Huez) or B) buy a decent quality steel frameset. At least with steel I can stop worrying about almost anything (except oxidation).

[@horrovac]

An additional rant here. Of course it's the responsibility of manufacturers to provide a safe product (instead of only concentrating on one that sells well). This stuff happening is absolutely beyond the pale and totally unacceptable, not excusing them in any way. But if your own bike attempts to kill you, the likelihood is high that it's your own damn fault to a degree. You had to pay 10000€ to get the new bike to replace the (eminently serviceable) previous one, because it's (supposedly) the one that some pro rides, because it offers 20 bajillion percent more rigidity (and they don't say compared to what), because it (allegedly) has the aerodynamic improvements that make it comparable to an interceptor fighter jet and saves you 1382.4 Watt and improves your performance by that amount. Let me posit a simple rule here: if you're buying your own bike, you don't need any of that. You need that only if you're PAID to ride it, not vice versa. If you're too slow, I refer you to rule #5. Any claims to improved aerodynamics or efficiency or anything like that are, in general, a whole lot of nonsense. The level of engineering in the bike industry is appallingly low, and you are safe to assume that manufacturers don't actually know what they're talking about. Their overblown claims are typically sourced straight out of their own arse. And they are typically not held accountable and covering damages is usually a minor expense. Bikes don't have crumple zones, but the bike industry have crash test dummies, and those are YOU. They know full well they can get away with beta testing their products on the customers because whatever happens they can just send a replacement, perhaps pay some bills (if the customer won't shut up about it), and then dangle the newest fad in front of you knowing you'll fall for that one as well. Look ma, no cables! It's 0.5% more aerodynamic and saves you 0.3 Watt (which you'll piss up the wall by not lubricating your chain and wearing a floppy jersey. All for the small price of 10000€ and engineering compromises that compromise the structure of the bike and are likely to kill you dead. Just so you can feel like a new Froome because you've beaten another fat bloke in Lycra up your local hillock. This is absolutely infuriating. The reason why manufacturers risk this is because the UCI don't allow aerodynamic fairings. So they have to route the cables and such through structural parts and make them weaker and a lot more expensive and complex to maintain. You want your cables and hoses not to be visible??? Fine! Stick a fairing over them. Who gives a damn that it's not UCI-legal? You're not a pro. If it matters whether it's UCI-legal or not, you're probably not buying it yourself. If you want to buy yourself an expensive toy, you just go ahead, no objections to that. Get a nice set of 3D printed hollow titanium idlers from Ceramicspeed for 1000€. Get an aero bottle/holder combo for 100€. Buy a titanium/carbon pump that's so light it needs to be tethered down so it does not float away. Get some unicorn scrotum leather for your bar tape. Buy a 600€ saddle that's 2g lighter than your previous 500€ saddle. But don't buy high-end bikes. They're not worth it, they're dangerous, they're untested (a new one every year) and they may try to kill you. As I was picking my new frame, I deliberately picked the heavier, lower priced one, built from a lower modulus fibre. Because it was produced for quite a while by then, because I found no reports on failures on them, and because above all I want my bike to be RELIABLE and I want to be able to fix almost any fault that may occur with the stuff I have on me. And lower modulus fibre is far less brittle and far less likely to just shatter if it fails. It's also Shimano throughout (one of rare manufacturers who do ACTUAL engineering), all-cable operated, rim-brake, non-tubeless, aluminium bar/seatpost bike. And if I find I'm too slow, #5.

[@nellyx1x493]

Totally agree with what you say. Having worked in the industry for decades can confirm that so much of what is marketed at roadie customers by big corporate profit milkers is totally irrelevant unless the rider is being paid to win races, or maybe at best an aspiring young racer. Most other riders would be far better served by something that is simply durable, maintainable and chasing rider enjoyment above performance, something they can enjoy for a long time rather than contributing to the constant churn of consumerist toss. We forget that riding a bike for most of us is just for fun, so why try to constantly emulate pro-racing when ironically if you're training that hard it becomes not-so fun....apart form the Shimano thing, their cranks actually explode...

[@horrovac]

@@nellyx1x493 Yeah I know about Shimano dropping the clanger on the exploding Hollowtech II stuff. But the concept is not that bad, and most of their stuff is really solid engineering. One other company I have respect for in terms of engineering is Ritchey, with stuff like the diagonal cuts in stem clamps to prevent point-loading of the steerer, or wrap-around clamps for handlebars (220° stuff) which aim to (and as far I can tell, do), provide more consistent clamping load around the handlebar. At least you can see someone has THOUGHT about what needs to be achieved and TRIED to find out an engineering solution. I respect that. The rest of the cycling industry (most prominently Sram, the inventor of less speed and range powertrains™) could not engineer their way out of a wet paper bag if you gave them a chainsaw. You're very right about the enjoyment aspect of it. I have spoiled cycling for myself several times by measuring stuff like pulse and power, and chasing distances and Strava goals. Luckily, that means that I can re-discover cycling after that :). Just bloody ride and forget seconds, watts, kudos and all of that nonsense if it switches from motivating you to being an obligation. You only race against yourself.

[@borano2031]

The truth all the way, thanks, then I don´t need to add anything at all. About aero "gains"... You ONLY have a technical advantage when the competitors DON´T have it. ONLY THEN! Look at the peloton today, each and every rider is having aero bikes. Aero isn´t even an advantage in a breakaway, as the peloton coming from behind ALSO rides aero bikes. It would be the same if all riders used EPO. Each and every rider would have the same boost. For us mortals, riding at about 30km/h, or 20mph, the gain is about 7-10 Watts between an aero bike and your 12 year old roundtubed racing bike. And I bet you that the 12 year old is a lot more comfortable. Thousands of Euros for 10 Watts?? Come on.... Rgr

[@event4216]

I'm looking at my all-steel fixed gear bike with a front brake...it's about all I need to get me moving around and keep in shape. Non-competitive riding for more fun and less clutter.

[@keithallen4313]

I have been on disc brake Defys since 2015 and 40000 miles but would never buy any of the new integrated head set bikes.

[@richardhaselwood9478]

Really love my 2015 Defy. About 25000 km on it. Pretty solid so far.

[@keithallen4313]

@@richardhaselwood9478 I have 2 Defys and been stunning bikes. One for to and from work and the other for weekends.

[@richardhaselwood9478]

@@keithallen4313 agree. I don't think the new ones have the fully integrated stuff. I think Giant skipped it on the TCR's too. That said, you see comments on reviews about 'why don't they have an integrated headset' So, a lot of this is being driven by demand.

[@UloPe]

So I do get the aesthetic appeal of internally routed cables, but what totally boggles the min is that this specific Bianchi has an internal front break hose but an external rear one… where’s the sense in that? That’s the worst of both worlds 🤯

[@glennoc8585]

I'd be dumping shares if I was an investor in some if these brands having faults. They need to issue recalls asap otherwise they could be sued so heavily that the companies go into bankruptcy.

[@Chungleas]

I'm really not a fan of internal routing, scarier than Gravel bikes it's now common practice on MTBs (carbon, Aluminium and even steel sometimes) and flawed for all the same reasons you mentioned. Interestingly half the people I hear/read defending the feature use phrases like "clean looking" and "neat". So as much as aero is a cited benefit I think it's mostly aesthetics overuling maintenance, simplicity and safety.

[@reale2803]

Is this due to companies keeping the existing fork layup but changing the forces with the new headset compression ring which now has the cutouts for the cables. These forks must require some sort of reinforcement to adapt to the new forces. I dont think discs are the issue just this stupid cable ideas

[@mrichards55]

I want to see Durianrider’s Law introduced to oblige manufacturers to prevent such fork failures going forward.

[@anderstorger3211]

I think there is a rational reason for the manufacturer to have integrated cabling: the integrated look sells. In this specific case it's not about aerodynamics, it's the clean look that attracts. And since most customers let the bike shop do all adjustments it doesn't matter to them that it's harder to adjust. I've heard plenty say "I would not buy a new bike today with an ugly spaghetti mess of cables and hoses", so I think the truth is that the look aspect is more important/selling than one may think. However, it is of course a scandal that this has lead to unsafe designs

[@NewEnglandDirtRoadie]

i must be in a VERY small minority that thinks fully internal routing looks ugly and stupid.

[@sztigirigi]

Internal cable routing is also a cancer in MTB. We have to suffer with headsets made by Acros. These wonkers convinced the industry that it's OK to have 2 BIG gaping holes in your headset. Of course your first ride in grit and mud will convince you otherwise.

[@marcocasamassima389]

Money, money, money. This is the reason for broken faces! The only thing they need to progress is prices. At the moment they are very successful. Specially these Italian brands selling Taiwanese frames with Italian paintjobs that cost from 4.000 euros for a frameset. You decide where to put your money, so just decide wisely.

[@TheCrossroads09]

Bicycles that look clean and uncluttered are tending to fail. Marketing needs to influence manufacturers to make them safe and reliable using these failures as an example. Is there a reason why there cannot be a full length aluminum tube bonded inside the carbon steerer tube that includes the plug?

[@DavidJones-sc6jc]

Yes. Money from big manufacturers and take your pick. Proper manufacturers like Time and Calfee are just understood primarily by engineers and such. Typical consumers look/but at “Spech” and think th