Luigi's Mansion - No OoB Speedrun World Record History

[@DuccAmucc413]

Who’s OoB and why isn’t he allowed to speed run Luigi’s Mansion?

[@kimaster5893]

He's not allowed because he doesn't like this game and would rather fall through the cracks of the manor just to get this game over with

[@Chizypuff]

He's not allowed to speedrun a lot of games, because he's a cheater >:(

[@kimaster5893]

@Cold Snap Yeah it does. I could never oob this game so I just do the other category

[@greenman7653]

@Cold Snap it’s a joke, I assume he knows what it means.

[@hostbug1461]

@@greenman7653 “all joking aside”no shit he knows it’s a joke

[@blargminton]

i feel like most of this vid is "x gets new WR, community throws him out or changes rules arbitrarily to chase him out" first speedrun history vid ive watched where the games community was so self-destructive except for maybe golden-eye

[@jediMidgitTricks]

They're doing everybody dirty

[@Amalgemotion]

"Runners can choose which boos they want to go for." Well, I prefer rum myself.

[@-MrFozzy-]

Noice!

[@M4XD4B0ZZ]

Took me a second to understand lmao

[@ActuallyZee]

Rum is tasty and cheap.

[@ShakedownDreams]

"Yes, that Bonesaw" Me, knowing nothing about Speedrunning and just getting into watching these documentaries: "Ah yes...*that* Bonesaw,"

[@borisyeltsin6606]

bonesaw577, notoriously got banned for his gdq 2016 jak and daxter run (for making too many jokes?), and the community was very upset by their decision. You should watch it

[@ShakedownDreams]

@@borisyeltsin6606 wait got banned from what?

[@borisyeltsin6606]

@@ShakedownDreams he got banned from participating in future GDQ runs

[@ShakedownDreams]

@@borisyeltsin6606 what's gdq again? I'm sorry I'm very new to this all >

[@SpeedDocs]

He got banned from submitting in 2016, until AGDQ 2018. He doesn't go anymore because he doesn't want to. He is not currently banned from attending the event or submitting.

[@wheedler]

It's strange that emulation and hardware differences are outright banned and expunged when they could just be separated by category/platform like the region and console differences already are. To me, speedrunning is about discovering how fast a game can be completed, including and allowing for variations in set-up. It's all interesting and useful information.

[@coolnoah8183]

Exactly, some speedrunners want to push the game to be as fast as possible using any method possible, they should have a category that allows for this (or for the software that allows such feats) so that those speedrunners can verse each other in an arguably less meaningful category than the main category

[@pweefypweef4089]

Wait what? This game can't be emulated if you want to speedrun? That doesn't make sense. Usually communities are open to emulation since the game in question is old and scarce in terms of physical copies. You can't depend on their originals forever so eventually emulation will have to be accepted. I've never heard of a category for emulation being left out

[@TheWholeEntireCake]

I had a harder time playing on the GameCube and N64 emulators than I did playing on the actual consoles. I played the original Banjo Kazooie on console and beat it ten times over but I got hung up with emulator in the grotto. Anyway, you just can’t truly verify authenticity with emulators and pcs. It could genuinely rely on hardware and specs as opposed to just using a basic standard N64.

[@randomphil8666]

Problem with emulation you can have so much variety in PC technology. You could have a slower time just because of your PC. So if it’s console only then this isn’t an issue. Just makes it fair I guess.

[@jamiejennings6955]

We have the technology to do emulated runs and cap frame rates and do everything correctly. We do not have a tab on speedrun and we do not have moderators. I hate the whole oh We can't do this. You can. Get some friends and be the forefront of that scene.

[@pacecory1]

Man, i'm sorry for Veman. He tried to make an honest comeback to prove he never meant to do things in an unfair way and half the community shunned him instead of embracing the idea of redemption... Guess I'm glad he left because it was probably a little toxic.

[@bmac4]

I hope people don't make the mistake of assuming that Veman wasn't a liked member of the speedrun community at all. There were rifts obviously, but his work with LM and Mario Sunshine are both still key pieces of the history of those games regardless, and his SGDQ2015 run actually is something kinda legendary, where he was a last minute addition to a race and he drove with his mom like 10 hours to get there in time for him to almost set a new WR in 100%, even if it has the USB load asterisk. The speedrun community also rallied to help him out of a sticky financial situation where he was living out of his car in 2016. Really just kind of a shame how some of these things all went down.

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

Glad he was well liked. It genuinely seems like the whole homebrew thing was an honest mistake.

[@a1gamer561]

I went from knowing nothing about LM speed running to having the biggest smile on my face when Pablo got his 55

[@SpeedDocs]

Pablo's popoff is powerful

[@TheEloheim]

So much pure joy in that reaction!

[@JustShova]

I was so happy for him

[@warspyking]

I feel terrible for both bonesaw and veman lol

[@snap3472]

The world record progression video LM deserved. This was so well put together and really puts fuel on the fire to grind.

[@vgamedude12]

"ya usb is fine" "Wait nevermind now it's not sorry" Very nice....

[@tripple-a6031]

"Yes, that Bonesaw" *Wooow*

[@RoseFielden]

That was a nice trip down memory lane. I have changed my gamer tag since then but I was previously SmashMastr98. Thank you for featuring when I got that record. Fun fact that was actually during a race where I forgot a boo and still got WR. I’ve thought about going back to this game many times to see if I can do it again but it would take lots of work. Good job on the video!

[@Chris-jx4ij]

There's one line that completely absolves Veman in my eyes. And that is the fact that USB Loading saved a variable amount of time based on your setup. I do believe that it was as low as he claimed when he tested it. I also believe that it should have been disallowed as soon as the variability of time save was found out. I don't think that he should have been shunned like that either right after the ban, or when he came back with actual hardware.

[@Ultimaximus]

Yeah, the whole situation is awful, and you can even see it in this very video. "In retrospect, while Veman was lauded as the first person to get a sub 1 hour time, that honor should've technically gone to Vark. Let's go Vark!" It's already a massive blow that Veman's record is lost to a technicality that was already approved by mods earlier, but now the video is *cheering* someone else, taking sides, as though Veman's was purposefully improper. Even if it *was* purposeful (even though there's evidence to the contrary), it's still bizarre to see an informative documentary-style video suddenly do that. "Overnight, the fastest completed run had regressed by almost a full minute. 1 minute was the same amount of time that loading from USB saved. Funny how that works." "Funny how that works"? That's another subtle yet snide remark that's completely inappropriate for a documentary; "funny" is how to describe the time-loss of a once-legitimate technicality? It's not funny at all if the guy was literally shamed out of the community even when he tried to play on disc, and isn't even available to defend himself in an interview. If the supposed time difference was so large yet varied by set-up, couldn't anyone have just analyzed his videos and concisely pointed it out, to see if he always had the time save from the very beginning? That info would be critical to the discussion, and would either exonerate him or convict him, and yet this video doesn't include that, since it's probably unknown, and may be unattainable if those videos are gone.

[@sonicmeerkat]

honestly i don't care if it was malicious or not, the moderators should have done their own testing before allowing it and even then knowing there was time saved by any amount should have put them in a different catagory from disk runs. it's unfair to ban dozens of runs from numberous people following the rules based on a retroactive decision when they could have been saved by making a new console catagory like the mario 64 community does.

[@RobotGuy405]

@@sonicmeerkat 100% agree. Getting rid of all those runs was getting rid of hundreds, of thousands of hours of grinding. There is no real reason why they couldn't have made a new category. In general for any game, I think outright removing categories is stupid. Even if it doesn't get many submissions, what's already there is speedrunning history, and should be preserved.

[@coolnoah8183]

@@RobotGuy405 Exactly, even if they refuse to accept any other times submitted in such a way, they shoukd still retain the original runs that got in before the ban as it's all part of the speedrunning history. We don't smash cave paintings about greek gods "because they're wrong" we preserve them because it represents a vital piece of history

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

I can KIND OF understand the initial negative reaction when he was using not quite legitimate hardware but coming back back with legitimate hardware should have been a good enough apology for something that was accepted at the time anyway.

[@NexusGas]

Poor Bonesaw, he seems to get screwed over by the communities he loves the most, often.

[@jackownsyou44]

11:48 Greatest pop off in history next to wizzrobe at Smash n Splash

[@SpeedDocs]

Wizzy's popoff is legendary

[@splaztendo1806]

I cry everytime seeing Pablo's No OoB WR video! Fantastic job on this!

[@SpeedDocs]

Such a great popoff

[@salis-salis]

watching yet another 1h doc by Speed Docs about a game I never played. sounds about right you're almost up there with Summoning Salt, keep it up!

[@joshjamesfilms]

The amount of work that goes into these docs is clear and so rewarding. I don't watch these videos on premiere because they are longer form, I like to make sure I have them saved to watch at a time I can give them my full attention. This channel deserves way more subscribers! This is my favourite doc since the original Donkey Kong Country one

[@Syndicate_LS]

I love the fact that The GameCube USB/SD loading software is called nintendont

[@hey_this_is_a_handle]

Nintendoes what nintendont.

[@fightforthedeaf]

Being able to turn on captions, even auto generated, is a lifeline many of us depend on to appreciate your work. Please help us keeping that.

[@SpeedDocs]

The setting is turned on, but it looks like youtube hasn't generated anything for this video. I went ahead and uploaded the script as a txt file into the captions section, so it might work now? Let us know if that works or not

[@fightforthedeaf]

@@SpeedDocs Thank you so much yeah it works, ima enjoy this video its been nagging me for days :)

[@Techstrobe]

I swear its just the beginning for newgen baby runners taking over leaderboards within a short period of time after discovering speedrunning. LM, SM3DW, Minecraft, and probably many more.

[@turkeypedal]

Why do the communities do this? Why remove times instead of finding a way to o grandfather them in? Figure out a high estimate for how much time was saved, add that onto the runs for sorting, and then let the new record be whatever beats the adjusted top spot. Then make sure all USB runs are marked, eg " Luigi's Mansion NoB: 1:02:27 (USB)." And then, optionally, when there are enough record above the USB ones (via adjusted timings) move the USB runs to a separate category, but close that category to new runs. It just always seems like runners get demotivated when so much work is effectively erased. Especially since they were following the rules as they existed at the time.

[@yosher]

Incredible video! I joined the community towards the end of 2016, and got to a 1:07 before I had not only hit my limit at the time, but was approaching the times where a capture card was necessary to verify the runs. Now that I have one, this video may have just reinvigorated me to keep going!

[@kingj521]

Note to self.. When i go in hermit mode. Make sure i still keep up with speed run world record history videos.

[@PriceAintRight]

"FUCK YOU KING BOO!!!" 🤣🤣🤣I love this guy.

[@Chizypuff]

Vman: It only saves 2-3 seconds World record holder Bonesaw: It saves a lot more than that Community: Nahhhh (Nobody had run any tests except Bonesaw) Bonesaw was right How the hell did this happen? Two people reported findings on something and one was accepted at his word and the other was dismissed completely and repeatedly? Shouldn't there have been more scrutiny over an unofficial copy of the game and the word of someone who was using that version already?

[@Chizypuff]

Not to mention it lead to the near self destruction of the top players when it was eventually (rightfully) banned

[@Ultimaximus]

@@Chizypuff There should've been more testing, and the fact that it's unclear whether or not Veman purposefully knew and downplayed such a large time-save (which should've been easily seen through analysis), with the defense that the time save could be highly variable based on set-up, really shows that not enough was known about the full mechanics of USB loading. I'm assuming of course that if we did definitively know that Veman's specific set-up gave a minute time save from the very beginning that the video would've actually stated that *all* of Veman's times were subject to that time save, or actually explained where the time difference came from, or explained why other runners using USB still couldn't beat his times.

[@fish3977]

it was known that the save time differed depending on your setup meaning both could easily be right

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

Given that the times are variable, it's possible veman legitimately didn't know or didn't get a significant time save. Worth remembering that eventually everyone else was adopting homebrew as well. What's worse us that either way, veman came back with legitimate hardware and was shunned for doing something the mods had okayed when he was doing it. It's not like he said he was on official hardware from day one only to cheat later, everything was above board until it wasn't.

[@JurgaBurgaFlintines]

Glad to see this community's hard work be recognized! Also, shoutouts to Xealous for providing most of the history after the SDA days and before Bonesaw's reign.

[@StepBaum]

Very compelling and well edited and awesomely researched and presented! just as always :]

[@mr.whimsic6902]

I hope Veman can come back..

[@benstacy2665]

best WR history video out there, love it

[@switchaswor]

Perfect to listen to on the bus. Amazing video 👍👍👍👍

[@OctoNico]

Your content is really great. Glad I found your channel. Please keep it up, quite entertaining!

[@WaddleDee105]

I was actually looking for a video on the history of LM speedruns a few weeks ago so this is pretty cool! Thanks for making this.

[@finndebney3533]

Love these! Keep them coming!

[@MetroAndroid]

"Loading from USB doesn't save more than 2 or 3 seconds," reminds me an awful lot of, "This run can't go any lower." One more reason Bonesaw is totally vindicated.

[@cookingwithben9923]

Who’s bonesaw and why don’t we like him?

[@oofster15]

Great Video!

[@johnthebarbarian]

Watching bonesaw lose his mind and simply cry is why I watch speedruns

[@manitoublack]

Great to learn the tale of these games. Well done to the runner and well done to the production team for this video

[@Lvlaple4Ever]

Veman deserved better :’(

[@dimentiominion]

“Hopefully it doesn’t take two years for the next time save” *2 years later, 1 cycle Chauncey is discovered*

[@Daan_Knobbout]

Always a banger, SquidBird!

[@jediMidgitTricks]

If he was struggling to get his hands on original Japanese hardware (due to financial reasons) and you'd need a really good set up in order to save more than a few seconds, I doubt he lied about it like that. He probably did save only a few seconds when he told everyone he was using it. That's what my skepticism is wondering

[@HDSpeedruns]

One thing the video doesn't mention is he was offered a JP copy by another runner, but turned it down. He later admitted that he knew how much time USB saved all along

[@jediMidgitTricks]

@@HDSpeedruns oh wow! That definitely makes things a lot clearer.

[@SpeedDocs]

No, we aren't painting Veman as a villain. No, the mods didn't delete his videos, Veman did. I can understand why you watch the video and think you're missing part of the story. We spoke to everyone, including Veman, and nobody wanted us to go into great detail on some of the more personal parts of the drama. There is more than enough information to come to the conclusion presented in the video; Veman likely knew it saved more time than it did, but nobody really tested it in depth. It actually varies based on your individual set up.

[@jediMidgitTricks]

@@SpeedDocs I personally don't think he was painted as a villain or a hero, just a guy pursuing a world record who may or may not have got caught up in some stuff that we don't know the details about.

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

@@SpeedDocs even if he knew, it seems like he should have had an easier time coming back with official hardware.

[@henryhardfoot]

*ONE OH SEVEN TWENTY* **FUCKING** *SIX*

[@MudakTheMultiplier]

I remember a GDQ Luigi's Mansion run that would have been WR but the runner choked and forgot a key item.

[@fanphoenix]

whats with the gameboy color thats in the video? it changes sizes, transparency, and even disappears for brief moments in the video

[@FALCONLICK]

I need to start supporting you on Patreon. Your content is amazing

[@Caldren_]

Great video very well put together!

[@YoungCatracho]

Amazing video as always cant wait for the next one

[@LindavMil]

I'm so proud of Pablo

[@Hexedbug]

sorry mom im trying to beat luigis mansion OOBless

[@DayKat8]

Pablo seemingly came out of nowhere - his first NTSC run was a 57:49!!! which is absolutely insane considering how different the category is from PAL (only around 50 runners have a sub hour time atm). He's nuts at this game, and a really nice guy so if you don't already go follow and stuff at twitch.tv/PabloBliep10 ....Can't wait to see what category he destroys next! Great video btw, the LM community is really supportive and we all really enjoyed it.

[@lvj778]

Bonesaws reactions 🤣😆🤣😆

[@Boomitsmagic]

I clicked because "no OOB" LOL wtf, it sounds so silly. also Luigis mansion is sick.

[@Joshimuz]

Slight grievance: but 44:00 "Pablo's European version of the game is significantly slower than the *English* or Japanese versions" The NTSC-U version is the *American* version, not the *English* one, English is a language used in Europe too :D

[@TotalProductions123]

Bravo on the videos man

[@maude7420]

This intro is amazing lol

[@lpants0]

After I saw that intro and the length of the video I knew I was in for something great

[@TayoEXE]

Legit Question: Why do so many Twitch speedrunners stream without wearing a shirt?

[@Magicdfox]

to emphasize their alpha status

[@bruxtle]

It makes them faster Duh

[@Zonicoi1]

Maybe room is hot, especially when ya yelling and have a loud personality online so im sure mans is sweating alot

[@potroast702]

More aerodynamic

[@M4XD4B0ZZ]

They love to show their childish bodies

[@craigyeah1052]

I love this game. Gotta say Radix's run sounded so impressive, glad to see it's still 108 on the boards which is kinda crazy considering when it was.

[@brandonvicbossmorgan]

This is the best thing that happened to me all day today

[@vertex546]

The vindication that guy must have felt. "USB loading saves way more than 2 seconds guys what are you all talking about?" No it doesn't! "Okay w/e. *leaves"*" years later, Oh wow, USB loading DOES save way more than 2 seconds...okay we're banning all USB runs.

[@sherlylecty9345]

I like the Crypt keeper style intro!

[@TayoEXE]

I don't get the idea of time-saving by playing the Japanese version. If that's just a matter of different software essentially, why would that even be in the same category as the U.S. English version? Why would it be fair for others to play software that is faster when it isn't because of skill but because of software differences? I mean, people had issue with speedruns being done via emulation vs on original hardware and made different categories, so why would someone need to go out of their way to prove they're the fastest by relying on software differences (aka, text language being different and therefore more or less)?

[@SpeedDocs]

Each community is different in how it handles category separation. For the LM community, the difference was small enough that the gameplay could be compared, but certain sections would lose time to text. In a similar vein, the european version of the game (PAL) is a totally different run, since it has different requirements to beat the game and the layout of the mansion is reversed. This is deemed different enough to separate it into it's own category

[@CanerasTV]

A lot of games are released in Japanese first, and there are often bugs or unintended interactions that are fixed for the English versions. Luigi's Mansion has a few of these that add up to a significant time save. The Japanese version may have been chosen originally for faster text, but it's remained the favored version because it has other version specific tricks.

[@trod5902]

super cool intro man. im not sure if someone produced that from you from scratch, but its great work

[@xunny912]

Is bonesaw okay?

[@Anybanks]

This game terrified me as a child, it'll be interesting to see it broken

[@Darklinkmaster2000]

It took me this entire video to shave ~2 seconds from my Rayman Daily Challenge.

[@jeremyvidaurri]

Could we get a Portal Any% wr history? Feel like the back and forth between Can’t even and Shizzal would be interesting to watch

[@MultiCrypter]

wow i was about to miss this video, the thumbnail seems to be off a music channel or smth.

[@lakitu6422]

38:25 numa numa time

[@The-Wock]

Here to juice that algorithm

[@shootin_quickgg1559]

Liked the video man it was good. Might wanna check your description though because I think you made an error in the first two lines. Just looking out for you man.

[@SpeedDocs]

Good catch, thanks

[@superrdg]

Bonesaw did nothing wrong

[@GamingDreamer]

11:49 that a winning reactiuon

[@penaughty2]

I generally like these documentaries, but the shots at Veman really felt uncalled for and mean-spirited.

[@bajorekjon]

What shots?

[@bajorekjon]

It's sad that such a relatively minor dispute split the community apart and drove out some of the best runners.

[@cody6685]

You are awesome.

[@dolorous.1118]

great video, super excited for the RAC 2 video next (: keep it up

[@youngtoonfish6891]

Great work as always, thanks for another great video 👍🏻❤️

[@goldenphonautogram6141]

11:48 someone needs to animate this

[@ltsJoeMama]

At 19:50 Veeman stopped the timer way before he defeated Boo.

[@koikro4410]

If you can't maych your USB tomes, doesn't that PROVE a whole minute advantage?

[@longgreasy1595]

You guys/girls are soooooooooooooo underrated!!!!!

[@kasemahasema]

Luigi

[@Epzilon12]

I feel bad for bonesaw, he got cast out despite being right

[@M4XD4B0ZZ]

Could you explain why the map glitch saves time?

[@SpeedDocs]

Everytime the player gets a key to unlock a new room (how you progress through the game), the map screen will show up to show the location of the next room. Runners have to mash to close the map screen every single time. This doesnt save a lot of time at each instance, but since this happens around 40 or so times over the run, the time adds up

[@M4XD4B0ZZ]

@@SpeedDocs thx bro I appreciate it :)

[@Mr_Jingle]

Can’t wait

[@ZanbonSen]

So, since Speeddoc but extra oomph on "Yes, that Bonesaw", who? What is he known for that it should be a no brainier who that is?

[@SpeedDocs]

Bonesaw is rather famous (or infamous) for a few things, but most notably tehurn.com and his Jak and Daxter run at AGDQ2016*

[@zacharyyoungblood7013]

I knew him because of his 1:07:26 popoff. Absolutely legendary. (I am slightly upset you didn't end up showing the part where he started running back and forth at light speed)

[@ps3andrhcp]

One of the most fun Games Done Quick runs was performed by him when he did the first Jak and Daxter. One of the funniest runs and back when GDQ was more loose and fun.

[@tripple-a6031]

His Jak & Daxter 100% GDQ run is legendary and the only full run I've ever watched.

[@destroyerbreaker7394]

@@ps3andrhcp Dunno if it was more loose since he quickly got banned afterwards, anyways, pretty sure people still enjoy GDQ nowadays, at least a few runs, and i can guarantee there are many runs in Classic GDQ people wouldn't care about. Also, there are still other marathons like ESA(which also gets american runners like the excellent Bigjon...even if i wasn't the biggest fan of his recent Mario Maker 2 story mode run, but that one is more the game itself not being as fun to watch and the fact it requires playing the same level several times in a row) and NASA which...seems to barely get any attention in KZbin.

[@sidthesquid4206]

Good stuff

[@XxILikePie03]

Shirtless Bonesaw is somethin' else 🤠

[@AndroidsDreamTV]

I think USB load must have been banned from the beginning. Obviously save much time without doing anything.

[@LaCazaLP]

I hear Bonesaw and all i can think of is WOW

[@Ethan-xo1yc]

Can you guys make a shovel knight any% wr progression next?

[@DAVID4GAMER]

Wow, conspirancy icebergs and gaming WR histories really are being the shit on 2020 and 2021 nowdays

[@drhackk]

Luigi speed time :)

[@borisyeltsin6606]

It should have really been obvious the whole time usb loading introduced so much variation. Some flash drives load games 4-5x faster than others, with so much variation it should have prompted more testing from the community. Imagine the time save with external ssds that started to be possible to make in 2012

[@ProtoUnleashed]

pls do mario 64 as the new 120 star tas is in making this could be interesting

[@SpeedDocs]

There already exists two Super Mario 64 world record history videos. We probably won't cover SM64

[@ProtoUnleashed]

@@SpeedDocs Well that makes sense then.. well maybe you could get behind the making of for the new 120 Star TAS and get some insight about it when it will be released since this will be a pretty big deal as the last 120 Star TAS ist almost 10 years old. Anyway love your high quality documentations on this channel keep up the good work.

[@frenzygamer907]

now snap has a 55:49 :)

[@jodfrut771]

Hallowiener