Luke Gromen: "Peak Cheap Oil and the Global Reserve Currency" | The Great Simplification #91

[@treefrog3349]

At the risk of sounding sycophantic, I hope that many people will understand what a unique individual Nate Hagens actually is. He is someone with a heart of gold who has wallowed in the "belly of the beast" of economic imperialism and who has seen its metabolism first hand. While raising chickens, playing with his dogs and riding his bicycle through northern creation, he simultaneously introduces all of us to many of those who are on the forefront of our contemporary socio-political and geophysical reality. I have no doubt that he will blush if, or when, he reads this encomium, but I feel genuinely compelled to give him a shout. Amidst our vacuous media landscape, Mr. Hagens is a treasure.

[@robertpedersen6831]

So true!

[@MrPaddy924]

Hear, hear

[@suewarman9287]

Agreed - BUT he repeats the 'climate change' narrative, which is obviously being manipulated by geoengineering AND is also a result of natural phenomena. Not humans, even though we are responsible for pollution, mass consumption etc - but not the little guy, the Corporations who stand to gain from the up-coming re-set are those who caused the environmental degradation.

[@denisemillar9146]

Well said! Yes he is a treasure!

[@melissafindingyoursoulsint6027]

I absolutely agree. I marvel at how he continues to find these great treasures in terms of the amazing interviews he does. ❤

[@Anza_34832]

My respect to Luke Gromen: He showed his true colors, especially answering the final questions. Very authentic 👍

[@JasmineSinclair-i3n]

Luke is impressive. His articulation manifests the extensive analysis he has put into all these topics.

[@snowflakeca2079]

This is what the News should look like nightly… 30 minute discussions: Monday: Energy Tuesday: Monetary Policy Wednesday: Healthcare Thursday: Defense Friday: Ecology But thanks for filling the void!

[@davidcarr2216]

Ha ha !! If the "News" covered on News channels were about telling people important stuff they might.

[@klam77]

But that would mean the public gets educated! can't have it.

[@TPAK-tb6gr]

Yup

[@Heidi2003]

Luke was such a great guest. Thank you Nate!

[@wvhaugen]

12:43 As I am listening to this I am reminded of Nate's interview with Joseph Tainter several months (a year?) ago where Tainter said he was worried when the 2008 Great Recession hit but ramping up shale oil gave the world economy some breathing room. Okay, now that I have finished listening to the podcast, I have a couple of thoughts. I very much appreciate the technical financialization angle of this podcast. In our unique situation, we live in France so our physical assets are valued in euros, but we receive our social security and portfoliio distributions in US dollars.This makes for a better diversification than if we still lived in the US - as well as being cheaper. Where I differ from most people is that I generate capital from my big garden every year, as well as increasing the value of the underlying capital by building my soil. In addition, we give food away and so build community capital every day of every year. This is symbolic capital, or synthetic if you prefer that term. It is nothing to sneeze at and includes such little things as translating tax statements for our British neighbors or translating for the mayor in land deals. To my mind, the ability to change capital fom one form to another is a critical survival strategy. So, as an example, I put up electric fencing two years ago to keep the sanglier (wild pigs) our of my garden. This preserves my earthworm capital (favorite food of the sanglier) so that I can grow more food to give away so that I can call on other people for help when I need it. I am also spending a little bit of money for earthworm food, as well as covering many beds with oat straw to provide a better environment for the earthworms and other microorganisms and critters. This straw had lots of black oats still in it so now I have sprouted oats in my beds that will act as green manure. Plus, if some of the oats survives the winter, I may have the beginnings of oats with facultative properties like barley, rye and wheat. [Facultative means you can plant it either in the fall or the spring.] This might make fall oats a viable crop for the future as winter temps trend lower. This raises another point. As Nate, Gail Tverberg and others point out quite often, society is a dissipative structure. It dissipates energy in order to continue or to even exist. What managing land capital sustainably does is actually create capital. This is different from industrial farming, which just dissipates existing soil resources and treats the land as a factory. Pour in oil through machines and fertilizers and get food at the other end. The energy accounting of industrial vs, sustainable agriculture is rather simple. You can value your labor in kilojoules or kilocalories, as well as the embedded energy of your machines and the consumptive energy of your fuel.I get an EROI or 2.00-3.50 with a little bit of gasoline and human sweat (the human body is the most efficient engine we have). Industrial ag has an EROI of .07-.10. If you prefer ratios, 2:1 to 3.50:1 vs. 1: 15 to 1: 10. Financialization of existing physical capital is mitigated by the simple strategy of growing food using mostly manual labor and giving it away.

[@solartime8983]

Well said🌻..."managing land capital sustainably does is create capital. This is different from industrial farming, which just dissipates existing soil resources & treats land as a factory."! I've been trying to get local farmers to understand that if their land is used by mega-Ag conglomerates, their land & their labor is just being leeched. We must retain Ownership of the 'means of production' and the individual landowner to control vertical use of their production for their benefit 🌻🗽

[@TheDancingHyena]

your head is on straight, I like it

[@msmith155]

Well said. I appreciate the expanded definition of "capital" which Chris Martenson of Peak Prosperity likes to talk about.

[@dansjolseth3454]

This is about the best of the hundreds of Podcasts I have viewed. Incredible interviewer and interviewee. Such good questioning and targeted responses. I want my wife and kids to view. Thanks much.

[@4945three]

The pains of rebirth. It’s not where we’ve been it’s where we are going. Thank you Nate for bringing the frequency up a notch.

[@shakthidhasan4544]

Fantastic conversation, mind blown.

[@meganmcmillan8255]

This was fabulous! Thank you, Luke, for the kind words for Mothers at the end! Great Moms are worth more than all the oil or gold in the universe!

[@7779-c3m]

Yes, The ROI Can be 1000% XXX

[@JeanNoelAvila]

This interview has been one of the most insightful I've watched in quite a while. Full of relations between apparently unrelated events that are new to me. Thanks for this new wake up call on geo-politics and global economy.

[@CitizenK1969]

Nate, definitely have Luke back in the future: in addition to his interesting analytical take on energy, finance, and geopolitics, he seems to share your benevolent ethos / perspective on life. As a long-term follower of your work and The Great Simplification, he's the kind of Wall Street person who fits well into the Great Simplification "chorus". Excellent choice for an interview.

[@blockheadthewise2846]

Down-to-earth, direct, and honest discussion of things that really matter in our troubled times.

[@davidgarza1301]

The dream team interview I’ve been waiting for with LG thanks Nate for including a market macro view to our planetary story.

[@259dubs]

What an episode!! Two brilliant minds with two different vantage points staring down the barrel of the cheap energy gun. Get Luke back on again Nate!!

[@ivessandol4760]

But you most likely do not yet know that diesel ⛽ fuel comes from recycling car tires they doin it in a big way in Nigeria

[@curtb.]

I've been watching and listening to Nate for a number of years now. I had also come across Luke in various forums from time to time, he's a very sharp guy. To have the two of them together is just incredible, I've really followed Nate with interest but felt that he was missing this one piece of the pie which was the whole economic lack of reality if you will with regard to net energy decline. I think that Nate has rightfully focused on so much in addition to the energy decline such as pollution, climate change and the others and as we all know this is just simply a logical conclusion to the way we have conducted business. As Kuntsler has written, the long emergency get started a while back for many and will come to all of us in due course. But of course what's interesting is that if the economic side of the engine if you will, starts to collapse or shift in comparison to what we have been used to over the decades then all bets are off. It then becomes very difficult to try to anticipate what may happen and how to prepare for it. That's really all I care about. I want to prepare to be resilient and able to virtuously benefit my family, my friends, and my neighborhood as things get increasingly local. Nate great job inviting Luke on, this was one of the most fantastic interviews that I've seen regarding the interface of the environment, fossil energy Decline and how all of these little pieces fit together and many of the probabilities that we might see going forward. Thanks so much and hope you have him back again soon!

[@dutchgirl7603]

Fabulous guest! Really enjoying the variety of topics being discussed on your channel. Nature and Currency can not separated if you are truly interested in fostering the betterment of Humanity.

[@stuartmacindoe8772]

I appreciated that Luke alluded to the positive spin on change which is new opportunities and our capacity to embrace them in our personal lives. Loved also that he authentically sees the real life value of raising a family. "Fall in love and raise a family" was not an answer I was expecting. Loved it

[@cbromley562]

I happened upon this channel/podcast today, and have thoroughly enjoyed two enlightening episodes, with great guests. The algorithms got it right today...struck gold.

[@AnthonyPenningsPhD]

I followed both of these guys separately. So glad to see them talking together. Nate does a great job keeping the conversation going.

[@markschluter8015]

This is just excellent. Simply the most tangible current objective compilation of where we're at and where we're likely heading. Clear insight and direction shining thru the haze of today's distractions and volatility. A must-see for people of every age and background.

[@racker9999]

Hagens' and Gromen's wise and worthy discussion should be required listening in the Senate and House chambers. It is a terrible realization the #1 existential threat to America is the US Congress.

[@bilw1960]

Heard Luke many times over the years. This is the first time I've come across Nate's channel. Very good questions and style of interviewing.

[@guapochino140]

Final advice "Fall in love / go to a museum" Wow, was not expecting that at the end. Appreciated though! Also hobbies. They are things men used to do when their libido was thwarted with sometimes amazing results (model sailing ships inside bottles anyone?!) These days it seems like the answer is just conspicuous consumption.

[@msmith155]

Excellent. Luke is as the Zoomers like to say, the GOAT (Acronym of "Greatest Of All Time," lol). Personally I'm a big fan of Luke, I love his theories and ideas. Though he isn't just the smartest guy in the room, but also perhaps the nicest. Of course he doesn't ever delve into his personal life in his interviews or on Twitter in order to keep it professional, but in the last 10 minutes where he gives advice, you can tell he's a really nice guy personally. I really appreciate that.

[@DeidreReed-d2c]

No wonder you are so successful Luke, you understand the power of family!!!

[@kansascrude5611]

Been a fan of both of these gentlemen for years. Triple bonus to have them discussing energy and the economy. Hope they do it again on a annual or bi-annual basis. KUDOS

[@bcarras]

Thank you, Gentlemen, (Mr. Hagens & Mr. Gromen) I really appreciate your perspectives! Great work!

[@Seawithinyou]

My God this is Mindblowing stuff from Luke and am trying my brain to Listen so deeply that I shall watch this again Thank you dearly guys Have shared 🕊🌏😇

[@Boudica234]

This is an amazing episode Nate! You've hosted many great programs and this is one of the very best. Thank u again for your phenomenal work.

[@scottmartin1845]

This really ties world events together and explains push to renewable energy from west.

[@thejuddah]

I have been following Luke for several years because my thought process resonates with his thought process. Also, though, because I think he is a great guy. This interview with Nate brought forth further resolution for me in relation to both Luke's ideas and his heart. Thanks!

[@dreich1000]

"There 'aint no getting ready for what's comin'. It isn't all waiting on you. That's just vanity."--from No Country For Old Men. Wisest movie lines I've ever heard.

[@teresalutterman1429]

Very interesting, thank you! Some went over my head but I still enjoyed the discussion. But one point of push-back: He mentioned we had only a few options for the budget deficit....I think they were cutting social programs and/or cutting defense. But taxing the uber rich was not mentioned as an option. ?? We had much higher taxes on rich folks during the 50's, 60's and 70's and the sky did not fall.

[@JamesMoreau]

Probably my favorite Luke Gromen interview ever! Loved the end where he talks about advice to young people and the hat tip to his wife.

[@franciscojaviergomez805]

Great interview, great content.

[@FortressFortification]

Luke is a heavyweight, nice show!

[@galenrubel]

Been following both of these guys for awhile. Really great to see them finally meet.

[@jonathanrider4417]

I continue to be amazed that you are still only showing 36.7K subscribers! This one is one of your best - keep up the great work you are doing!

[@curtisbush8098]

Immensely grateful for having Luke on and diving into the deeper end of macro-financial markets, geopolitics, and outlining scenarios that will surprise many. Near the end you both hit on the seemingly willful ineptitude of our 'leaders' and the governance systems - maybe another round of 'what smarter decisions would look like' with a panel could be quite informative. And help seed some of the political will necessary to push back against the tragedy of the commons. Fantastic conversation - could've listened to another couple of hours...

[@slavaukrayini4442]

One of the best interviews on the channel! Nate and Luke together - a double-positive force.

[@RickyDale-k7i]

Luke Gromen is very intelligent and has some good economic analysis but often he leaves important variables out of his analysis. But I think he is right on point with this analysis.

[@ZuZungu]

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for all the intelligent discussion of things that affect us all.

[@richdiana3663]

It's much more than a financial situation. It's the dawning of a new and more difficult era.

[@SuperLkelley]

Out-bloody-standing - to both involved. Favourited. Sincerest thanks.

[@Robis9267]

This Luke Gromen has some really interesting insights

[@advocate1563]

Here because of Luc. Stayed because of.Nate.

[@jessieadore]

About to give this a third listen lol. Please bring him back. Love the dynamic between you two.

[@macgp44]

Another brilliant guest for our favorite interviewer! Some of the discourse is above my level, but that's ok.

[@chizb79]

start a family, the last thing I want to do in the face of overshoot/collapse and adding to the already 8 billion humans.

[@yflyingrock6688]

EVERYBODY should watch this!!!!!

[@arnaumontserrat7763]

One of the most informative episode's...uau!

[@terryhollands2794]

This was a very enlightening conversation to listen to. Though provoking content. So many good comments

[@grant1506]

Taking pleasure reading the compliments here. Listening to the end

[@morisless3532]

Thanks for asking Luke about the environment. First time I have seen someone do this. Kudos

[@scottinguito5997]

great stuff. great advice. love the connection between having a great mom at home and GDP~! deep

[@snowflakeca2079]

Best discussion so far! Killing it Nate! Thanks!

[@theinflationsituation8870]

Good on Nate for handicapping the man hours, I'm sub'd.

[@fascistphilosophy5649]

this is probably the best podcast I've listened to in years. no one talks on peak oil as primary driver of geo-strategic agenda -- and does it so WELL. .... though the obvious chaotic anarchy (not organized enough for civil war,) is not given due consideration. it's obvious. like French revolution: reign of terror, bloody anarchy, ... and then the return of holy roman autocracy, (though of course, in a guised form....)

[@jamesobrien1863]

I learned so much watching this. Grateful to Nate and his guest.

[@vacationism]

This show is a double listen. Great Show.

[@gavintfrye]

Fantastic interview. The future needs more great minds coming together and really trying to understand these dynamics and help other people understand them: podcasts like this give me hope for the future of that in these insane times.

[@QwertyQwerty-qk1kk]

Whhat an episode, this is gold, completely blown up by the analysis and the information shared, well done !!!!!

[@papaluvspi]

Nate you have an amazing ability to draw the best from your guests! Found you due to (Luke) this video and so glad I did. You are an amazing teacher sir. Thank you

[@mr.makeit4037]

Well here we are in the evolution of Nates wonderful programs where we finally talk about our possible short-term scenarios ahead. Although a bit scary where we could cover our ears and close our eyes, your guests takes the sharp edges off with optimism. Great show. 👍

[@MeJonTheDon]

Nate, you make a great point on a society that is farsighted enough to conserve its own oil supply should be incentivized to do so. Intentional or not, i beleive a version of this is happening now with the energy transition. As long as we dont lose our own ability to produce key minerals/commoditties and have some abiltiy to ramp up or down to absorb major price shocks, our purchasing of chinese lithium batteries using chinese coal and nuclear power in production is a great way to take their resources for cheaper than may be available in the future, where we can then build out our own resources as needed

[@EdgeBrandAgency]

Been following both of you for quite some time; great to see the cross-pollination of great minds more all the time! 🧠😃

[@doncassidy4428]

Nate, you have an excellent podcast where deep thinking, knowledge and guests who share their ideas openly and thoughtfully are appreciated. This one with Mr. Gromen, I have shared to friends via old school email, as it is such an excellent both historical and current reference to the attempt to control energy prices by the USA.

[@Fox-in-sox]

Nate what an awesome guest. This, hands down has to be one of your best podcasts ever. You just keep getting better and better. Thank you soooooo much.

[@cledieu]

This channel is a gem ! Some truths shine so bright they're blinding.

[@ivessandol4760]

Yes and Nigeria has been producing diesel fuel ⛽ from car tires for over a year

[@jamesgardner6499]

Anecdotal points here. I work at a toothpaste factory. Salaries for everyone have risen in last few years. We r retraining many of our mechanics n electricians to be engineers. The reason, we can’t find enough of them. They run an apprenticeship program for several positions as well. Free education n other perks. It’s amazing we can’t find more folks coming in the door. My own field (industrial automation) has seen incomes rise near double digits every year. The 24 yo engineer keeps getting raises through the year. He’s too valuable to the plant. It’s going to take some time for the trends of the past 50 yrs to reverse. But highly skilled factory jobs (not just an operator) are becoming very valuable in the market.

[@protasiocanalita6436]

Sir please just give up all of your assets to the ,01% rich people all over the whole world. They are desperate now for those funds ok? Now after that action our own reaction should be to reject their offer for help towards us. Refuse their tokens and let us make our own tokens, or barter. If you want 5o please them no problem from us sir. Just do it. If there is nothing for us out there why stay around that place? Do you want to beg sir?

[@stringlarson1247]

Does anyone know how to get it back in the tube yet?

[@dang9641]

This Chanel is underated.

[@Lyra0966]

No.5?

[@tomkish1]

Your guest blew me away first part of interview I didn’t like the in code things said because I know exactly what was said that was not said then second half the answers to your very pin pointed questions blew me away I admire your quest and will not forget his name and will watch for him in future thank you a million times both of you 😊

[@valueray]

Thank you for that interview. I could look Videos like that all day long. Its so much value in it for or future

[@nick-oi1xf]

Luke is a real one!👍

[@Mrbsatoshi]

Wow best I’ve heard Luke!!!

[@jkpower345]

I'm going to need to memorize this conversation. Thank you facilitating it. Great talk.

[@stringlarson1247]

Ha. Lemme know how that works. As always, massive info. I listen to these many many times.

[@4everhdt]

Good advice at the end from a solid guy.

[@norbertbarna438]

Great interview! Thank you!

[@aboyer9828]

Always enjoy listening to Luke!

[@Dracandros76]

So great, Luke answers so many hard to answer questions. Def. one of my favorites.

[@evansallis9519]

Excellent. Simply excellent 👍

[@Mikey-mike]

Thank you, Nate.

[@MrPaddy924]

That was a bit like listening to a foreign language to me at times. I understood about 40%. Thanks, as ever, Nate, but not all of your listeners are ex-Wall Street traders, so Liberal Arts graduates like me may need a helping hand to understand the jargon.

[@johnbanach3875]

You're not alone.

[@downthememoryhole2645]

Keep at it! Finance is just another language system to learn. From another liberal arts grad!

[@stopper90004]

Let me translate: BUY GOLD, BITCOIN, FERTILE LAND, SHARES IN COPPER, SILVER, URANIUM AND OIL companies if you don't want to become a pauper. Just look at how the stock market and bonds were a disaster in the 70s, whereas rare commodities became a refuge and gained huge value.

[@MrPaddy924]

@@stopper90004 Will the stock market exist to the extent that one's shares / futures holdings will be honoured? I assumed part of the notion of a Great Simplification was that everything, trade included, would be necessarily reduced to its simplest, most basic form (eg bartering goods in the context of hyper-local markets) as opposed to the complex (and somewhat baffling) trading instruments we have today.

[@johnbanach3875]

Good point.@@MrPaddy924

[@nestorkutzev1559]

Amazing interview. Thank you both!

[@Jeffberg42]

Robertson Davies, 'Fifth Business', Deptford trilogy. "Think of money as you would water. It has to flow, blockages are bad." Ergo. Needs be treated as a public utility.

[@TennesseeJed]

Getting simplified with Nate today!

[@DaveHarmon-zm8tn]

I think you would do your viewers a GREAT service by getting a MMT perspective on economic issues as they relate to energy. Warren Mosler, Stephanie Kelton, L. Randall Wray.

[@daveforgot127]

Bring back Luke every month!

[@chrisruss9861]

The guest certainly sees a lot of pieces on the chessboard. Impressive take on the energy and finance situation, with insights I have heard for the first time.

[@drno3391]

Luke, may the Force be with you !

[@desmondcampbell9358]

Luke Gromen was great. Thanks for interviewing him, Nate.

[@kirstinstrand6292]

Since this interview occurred just prior to the Israeli Gaza War, I'd love to see Luke here again soon. BTW, Gaza would be a fabulous coast to ship out oil. How much oil or gas is in that region, probably undeveloped? I know nothing, yet I always try to think 🤔 ahead.

[@pepe2493]

It seems at least one trillion in reserves just off the coast

[@paulasamec8715]

He’s so right about the catastrophic quality of the EU and the US leaderships!

[@beingnonbeingincludesexistence]

You have Always great guests nate, great podcast/interview again💪🏿. I hope to see you have an conversation with historian michael hudson in the future!

[@curtissharris8914]

Great advice at the end new respect

[@brightspark9076]

Great interview

[@CAStone-kq4md]

Holy shit . It’s been a couple of weeks and it’s all coming together now .

[@goblin_attourney]

Luke Gromen is one of my favorite macro guys, great conversation.

[@stevecoombes1235]

Excellent discussion. Thank you. I hadn't realised why the SPR was drained.

[@jimmymcgee4101]

It's great seeing you two