Dr Nobre is a spectacular get! Incredible depth - climate, biology, ecosystems, modeling, foundational research. I know this will be profoundly depressing but so important (science must continue even as the US goes nuts)

Good afternoon Nate and Carlos Very nearly couldn't listen to this today. Just saddens my wee soul knowing we are far from doing enough to SEE our planets demise let alone act as a species to change it. But again Thank you for your super sensemaking brain gym. 💜

Thanks for this roundup of your teachings. I am still fumbling between this viable series of options and the view of Tom Murphy, who stresses more the 'ecological context' angle. I see no way out for us using his logic, try as I might, but there is more hope for appropriate technology in yours. Maybe you could do a talk together looking at the long term ecological context and whether evolution will allow us to survive.

Source that 100% photosynthesis failure at 43C 110F ?¿ Last had seen selected studied top canopy trees were having failure but like 15%

Everything is measured by evidence based, the experiential is not valued. Being human is a social connection to the self, others, the environment, and the natural world. The imagination, music, poetry, and arts are just as important as academics. Balance is needed.

Human arrogance alert.

thanks

Bit of a strawman my friend. Obviously climate is changing. The claim that it is man caused is the only hoax. Thank you for admitting the role of our sun, as it's the largest factor & most often completely overlooked. All of the rest of the solar systems planets are warming atm, why would anyone be surprised that earth is doing the same. Have a look at Al Gores inconvenient truth, all of the timeliness for his predictions have passed and none of them has occurred, even though we failed to meet any of the tasks set out by him for their avoidance. There's the real inconvenient truth. Used to be called Global Warming until UN climate "scientists" e-mail dump exposure, showing them discussing just what temperature data they needed to delete in order to present the narrative their agenda required. The next couple of years our media were strangely quiet about Global Warming, until it was rebranded and reawoke as Climate Change. Yep we need to do better, since the 60s I've been banging a stop plastic insanity drum. We're killing eachother over oil so we can waste it on single use plastic? Gerrrr. Many other topics you changed subject to are pretty well established too. Although not warming our earth. 😂 Again; yes, it's changing, we didn't cause it & we can't stop it. It's bigger then us. Until we build a thermostat for the sun we'd best continue to find ways to adjust to our environment as we've always done.

This guys an idiot

Thanks. Great guest today. Even though I'm from a very differant world view (Christianity) i find that when he sticks to the very broad topic he's mostly right on the mark. Quite well informed & well though out. I'll subscribe to see if you continue having such engaging & top notch content. 😉

love rahmstorf's sense of humor

Gracias Nate, siempre es reparador escucharte, a ti y a tus invitados. Escribo en español para añadir la diversidad que tanto te gusta.

... Prairie grasses, algae, all plant life, the oceans, the atmosphere, and, well, basic/ally, the Earth itself, is just one, great, big, humungous, NATUR/ALLY and OPERATIONALLY OCCURING, carbon sink. But, yeah, as a species we've been steered toward over consumtion and waste generation by a gready material obsessed cohort of conglomerated corporations only fixated on wealth and power ..

This deserves more views

A conversation about the Amazon feels short without talking about the Sahara. I'd bet like others, I'm conflicted if the "green the Sahara" movement is a responsible one. An interview with a Sahara expert on what it means to world health since it became a desert would be equally insightful. Or a roundtable with Amazon and Sahara experts to discuss the relationship, how both have transformed over the eras, outlook regarding 'what ifs', life in Saharan ecosystems, etc. In Earth's recent times Saharan dust has been critical in (re)nourishing the Amazon's vegetation with phosphorus and other nutrients that wash away from rain and flooding, varying in amount each year. But it hasnt always been like that and wont always be. www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/goddard/nasa-satellite-reveals-how-much-saharan-dust-feeds-amazons-plants/ www.nature.com/articles/s43247-020-00071-w

Re-listening to this post US election, I see the clear connection - Trump high in Dark Triad / Quad, and those complicit (the GOP). Yikes.

Beautiful discussion.

Really enjoyed this insightful conversation between Nate and John, as I have enjoyed so many episodes of this podcast. Made me reflect on values, identity, the double bind and on walking away. I time my awakening to the superorganism to my early twenties some 25 years ago (back then called rat race), at a time when I was finishing my university studies and doing my master's thesis for a tech company. My basic recognition back then as a young man was that if we'd develop those mobile services we were developing at half the pace instead of working long hours for those goals, we'd probably all be much happier in the end and some more nature could have been preserved. Since then it has been a continuous struggle for finding a balance between values and work, taking detours every now and then in trying to find something more meaningful and then coming back to needing to earn a living and establish a decent place in the social system as it is. I agree with other commentators here that for most of us it's maybe not that easy to just walk away like Nate and John did and successfully create something meaningful outside the superorganism. So sometimes or even most of the time I feel like either a little stupid or failed for not being able to walk my values as much as I would certainly like to. Rationally I can undestand it depending on at least your financial capital, your social capital and social context, skill set, timing, and even sheer luck. So I suspect walking away from the rat race is actually pretty much like running a startup company - every now and then some of them succeed, most don't, however. It's good that some succeed and let's be grateful for them and support them. At any rate it has been a learning journey (although I'm every now and then losing a bit sight on what all that learning will finally be good for). Some 10+ years ago I walked away from my tech job in search for something more aligned with my values. I became entrepreneur with no real good business plan, spent some time in an initiative for ethical banking, and after personal finances started running short ended up mostly running a small business of a family member. Did that for a bit too long until I was ripe for getting a real job again, more in the field of my education. I had become more humble to understand that I'd probably enjoy that more and that I would also earn more that way. A bit later I also worked for the public sector, kind of enjoyed that, even if it wasn't so well paid. Finally it started to bother me that yes we were addressing many topics in social sustainability there but that whole system was still extractive in terms of environmental sustainability (mostly maximizing energy and material use for social well-being of the masses under whatever budget constraints were given). I recently switched to a listed company to work with sustainability data and reporting and continuous improvement. That's closest to my values so far and I'm glad there is an increasing number of job opportunities in this area. Doesn't entirely remove the nagging feeling that this maybe not enough in the big picture. Will not necessarily address the rebound effect Nate discussed with Daniel Smachtenberger. Will not be the kind of holistic bioregionalism espoused by Daniel Christian Wahl, yet unlike him I believe this putting it into data and numbers is definitely a step in the right direction. I must say I'm not sure if I understand what Nate's guests mean by holism and if they all mean the same thing by it. Would be interesting to hear how they see it different from say systems dynamics, which is still a pretty rational and reductionistic pursuit, after all. Doing systems dymamics, you would sit at a computer drawing causal-loop diagrams and doing simulations, which is still pretty far from the experience of diving with dolphins (or whatever it was Daniel Christian Wahl told he was doing that inspired him to study holism). Anyway I do see pretty much meaning in getting all that sustainability and lifecycle assessment data right on your supply chain and on your products - the ultimate vision being, I guess, as a consumer, in addition to the monetary price you would see a declaration of the impacts the production of this thing you are buying has had on the environment or on the social systems. The big question of course being: would we care even if we had that information? Would we still prioritize the experience of a new car and justify the impacts as a necessary tradeoff for the dopamine we get? Anyway, in the meanwhile, while waiting on the consumer side, companies are already today having the market incentive to optimize down the impacts in their supply chain. Unless some holist makes a yet much clearer point for the contrary, to me it seems just getting it all reliably down to numbers using well-defined methodologies and basing decisions on those numbers would get us pretty far. Maybe a bit reductionistic, and would not be rocket science, would just need the right incentives. On the incentive side I'm seeing regulation as a driving force at least here in Europe (like CSRD, European product passport and the like). Congratulations for and good luck with the new president on the other side of the Atlantic :) I'm also a believer in transparency and in science-based or evidence-based approaches. Not saying I wouldn't see some systemic challenges in how academia are set up these days (as I believe Nate touched on with Daniel Schmachtenberger at some point; and I believe some research type of work would have suited me well but never found myself so much at home in the academia), but still. On that ethical banking initiative I mentioned, a major problem in my view was that some of the key people there were associated with the anthroposophical movement. In addition to that we didn't have enough skill in the team, it seemed that what was considered ethical and fundable would be fundamentally deemed by a group of elders sharing an obscure and opaque ideology. Now with all the sustainability metrics laid out in global standards and protocols and recommendations to follow, maybe we can get somewhere without need to resort to holism in the form of an ideology. Just if the will to proceed was there. A bit too many voters the world over don't seem so motivated, though, unfortunately. Still a bit on values and identity. Tough questions. I recognize it's difficult letting go of comparing myself with peers in the same social contexts, like family members or people I studied with or work with. Going for more alignment with values and further from feeding the superorganism would mean going with a pretty much lower income level and letting go of many of the comforts in my life. So even if I abstractly think that this would be good to strive for, I have started to curiously look more at my real values, those that I really enact through my actions. For instance, one of my real values is being able to provide a good life for my kids, meaning a certain material standard of living I'm used to and also see my peers having. Actually I believe there was a piece of research showing a pretty strong correlation between income level and CO2 emissions (acting probably also as a proxy for energy use and extractive exploitation at the same time I believe). So yeah, I guess my point is that I run into these big unresolved contradictions when I observe my values. Like I want to give my kids a good life, buy them stuff their peers would also have, while at the same time, knowing producing this stuff is pulling the rug out from under the future generations. Would be curious if anyone else of you who live paycheck to paycheck would have some insights to share on how you have resolved some of these values and identity dilemmas!

I think that pointing out all the evils of capitalism and colonization just to than state "I'm a classic liberal, I love capitalism" is genuinely insane.

This is quite confusing, a few years ago was TARF on the edge of a tipping point.

Totally agree with this conversation, in fact I have alway believed this, but the key word is “IF”, an I see no sign that people (in general) are either not willing or unable to give up their fossil fuel vehicles, and by the time that happens the earth systems will beyond its tipping point, in my opinion, great conversation, thank you, on hind thought it’s may be a lack of rain that will be the nail in the coffin for the Amazon, sadly, The old saying hope for the best but prepare for the worst, Peace !

Very interesting, Thanks Dr Carlos & Nate! China imports about 55% of Brazil's beef and may be among the big players behind the sceens in the beef/deforestation push.

Thank you Nate. It is always nice to hear from people in the field. I want to congratulate you on the honing of your interviewing skills, nicely balanced. It looks like we are underestimating the interconnection between ecosystems, and our predictions are more on the sunny side to keep business as usual. I am afraid, it may not be enough just leaving all the forests worldwide alone to recuperate to their natural state. We have passed that point and need now to invest heavily into rebuilding and building natural systems, like using AI to create, engineer a rainforests and natural oasis. A third of any national budged has to be invested into these projects with a min of hundred year fore side. Only then we are able to make an impact on global weather systems. Now how likely is that going to happen? Time is telling us to unite the whole of humanity to restore our mother planet. Stay sane all

Np one mentions weather modification or the chemicals being distributed on a daily basis.

How does one talk to people about this? Things I get back when I say anything about "The Great Simplification": what sources do you have? That's just one source, that's just some sources, those sources are to be trusted, that is not what is believed by most scientists, there is no scientific consensus to think that, some scientists say that we have a long way to go before it's too late, if we just do more of what we are doing we can stop (insert problem/predicament) and more and more and more. These people have a master's and PhD education. What is wrong with them?

Thank you .

You see and understand how a world without money can actually exist, and the competitive theory and DNA natural instinct is actually a story to condition and perpetuate us and the social economic system that benefits the same. We need to understand that our anthropogenic world reality is only one in infinite possible variations, and that we shouldn't be based on competition like we have done for our entire existence as a civilization. You have been doing this Podcast for a long time now, and it is still strange that you haven't brought up the debate between competition vs cooperation, and people like Alfie Kohn or Peter Joseph to delve into it.

we must save the unique fauna and flora only found in the Amazon .

I can’t thank you enough for letting this insightful man speak with little to no interruptions. This was one of the best podcasts across all platforms that I have listened to up to date. Kudos to you, your team, and of course Carlos for coming together and sharing this information with us and bringing all of this full circle. There’s still hope left!

Another key point: indigenous people specially the young; has a high rate of suicide, depression; after the contact with 5G internet...they getting addict to porn, games and others tech dopamine triggers; we cant do romance on their situation: industrial capitalism is promoting a eugenic genocide to take their lands...unfortunitally carlos cant criticize because his political blindness dont let him see how left and rigth act as " hands of the same body"

How many vastly advanced AI programs are at this very moment being used by various intelligences services to calculate the casualties and fallout of a nuclear first strike? How long before one "decides" to start telling them what they seemingly want to hear?

I am from brazil and i respect Carlos nobre as a great scientist but when He talk about The actual president He made his political blindness appear; The current government talk q lot about Green policies but doesnt have any control about Fire, this crimes described are happening all The time and there are people dying of lung illness, i am upset that Carlos dont have The gusts to point this lack of commitment of the left government; does not matter your side...left or rigth Will both cry in a percy shelley verse: ozymandias....

You lost me at microplastics. Plastics cannot get into the body. Sugar cannot and has to be broken into glucose to get in. Plastic in any size is way way way bigger than sugar and thus cannot get into our bodies. Stupid person trying to teach is what is happening here.

A tremendously inspiring guest I'm very grateful to get to know. Talk about mixed news of a dire nature... Well, my understanding of the problem has been fully validated. It occurs to me with regards to seriously reducing beef consumption, we might improve our odds of success by getting as many religious leaders on board as we can reach, from all three of the Abrahamic religions. I don't see how we can make any headway on convincing people to give up beef, especially in a region like the Midwest, when the cattle industry has the full blessings of all 3 of the Abrahamic churches + the Vatican. Christianity in particular advertises God-sanctioned unrestrained consumption of animals ("beasts" is still the popular term, it seems), in large part due to the New Testament teachings of Paul, who, according to some historians, was fanatically anti-vegetarian. I'm no authority historically or biblically, but I guess this has something to do with Paul's inherently conservative tendencies, and vegetarianism being seen as a kind of heresy by the Hebrew traditionalists of the day. The Temple seems to have been engaged at very great profit in the butchering and meat selling business, which would explain why they weren't too keen on the idea of Rabbis advocating for eating veggies. It might be interesting to look into what connection, if any, there is between the modern day Christian Church, Islam, and Judaism, and the current corporate meat-processing monopoly. Coincidentally, I've been asking around lately about what people believe on this very topic: The few evangelical Christians I know here in the Twin Cities are themselves as fervently devout as any of them ever get on this one particular belief about their absolute right to use the Earth and all its creatures (sorry, "beasts") in any way they see fit -- guilt-free, no restraint, no "sin": After all... "God said!" I'm being a little flip, but I'm actually serious. I see these beliefs as a potentially serious impediment to making headway in any area of concern for biodiversity and global warming, excepting in those particular areas that directly and immediately affect human beings. I don't know how we can reach people who put the words of religious texts before anything else in terms of what they do and do not believe, and what they're willing and not willing to do... Except through the only people whose word they seem to take at face value -- their preachers. Something I'm beginning to realize is that there's a lot more people in the world who bottom line identify with these ideas than I had once thought. And that this consequently might actually be playing a large role in why there is so much inertia in the US with regards to the environment. Now the homocentric campaign slogan "Clean water. Clean air." starts to make a lot more sense, doesn't it?

The gist of it is well captured and articulated in Eddie Vedder's "Society" and Judy Kuhn's "Color of the Wind".

This was wonderful, thank you Nate and Bill! Can’t wait for the second conversation 🌎🌳🐝🌸🍑

This happened 3-4 years ago The fact that we are talking about this only now it kind of scary Thank you for this valuable information, and thank you Dr Carlos for all of your work on this global treasure

Isn't most of the deforestation of the Amazon for animal agriculture? Cattle grazing, and growing soy for animal feed...? Tell me, oh capitalists, about how our ecosystems can support 10 billion animal-eating humans or more...

What an articulate and humble man. Thank you both

We shouldn't be feeding grains to ruminates. Beef growers can expand the biodiversity & yield by using Joel Salatins Sustainable & Regenerative techniques of Mobbing, Massing, & Moving, w/ the introduction of rotating other species successively in rotation w/ ruminate grazing.

Great guest,prob one the most educated on this region of the world

This video title basically describes my wife’s vagina. 😶🤣😭🫡

😮AI is dead and tech support types/progressive

Too many humans burning too much stuff. Some types of grasshoppers become locust drunk on abundance, and it looks like humans are that kind of grasshopper.

I've been long aware that if we lose the Amazon, the viability of the planet will be greatly impacted. I am very grateful to both of you for the information that has so clearly been provided during this discussion. It's been observed that the global convergence zone is shifting northward and according to Paul Beckwith, especially if the AMOC halts, the monsoon rainfall will move further northward away from the Amazon Basin. As indicated in this talk, without subsequent drastic measures the consequences of this would truly unravel life on the planet.

the empire is so arrogant it has gone blind to its suicidal greed that breaks these non reversible systems life depends on

The US just reelected Trump. You really think people are going to stop or even reduce beef consumption? Please...

Search. ecatthenewfire

Long before most of this happens, we'll bury ourselves in our own huge waste dumps, and the plastic contamination of the environment, including the ocean.

Congratulations to Nate on the election of Trump, well-known stooge of your favorite person, Vladimir Putin!! Putin, as we know, is fully dedicated to saving the planet!! 👏