LUMINETH WARSCROLLS: Breaking down Eltharion and the Vanari!

Welcome to more Lumineth Realm-Lords contect! Siegfried and Jonas break down all the Lumineth warscrolls in parts. In this part, they analyse Eltharion and all the Vanari!
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[@ElCampeondelEmperador]

best Lumineth videos on KZbin, thanks for the effort putting this video series together so fast after the edition released, cant wait to put my Dawnriders on the table next weekend.

[@strategoi]

Thanks for the kind words and you're welcome! Hope you enjoy the rohirim charge 😁

[@Rerisham]

SO hyped to see you guys continue this series. I grabbed like.... 3,500 points of Lumineth right at the end of 3rd out of hype. I LOVE their aesthetic. I'm going to model & paint them up as High Elves from wow, so blood reds, golds, yellows, etc. Anyway - - mega excited to see more content from you guys! Lots of love from Canada!

[@strategoi]

I'm fully with you on the excitement train! Thanks for your kind words! See ya in the next one 🥳

[@Derlaid]

Only thing I'd add about wardens is that they're the cheapest OC/point in the army. Probably justifies their existence in competitive lists.

[@strategoi]

Good call! Same perk for the Riverblades but they're obviously less tanky.

[@stoickes]

I think lyrior is being used to counter the incarnate, purple sun, and jaws. You can only banish a unit one time in your hero phase. This allows you to potentially finish it off.

[@strategoi]

For sure a thing he could be used for. There's a lot that has to go right for that to be the case though. The chances are still pretty slim if you do the calculations: first make your casting value, then don't get unbound, and then roll enough on the 3d6 to deal with the manifestation. Lots of steps... 🤷‍♂️ But with some support I can see him doing okay! 👍

[@cdance93]

You guys are missing a key thing with Lyrior - three very popular manifestations (Purple Sun, Jaws, Krondspine) cannot be auto-banished and instead take mortal damage. Lyrior's spell circumvents this because you may well end up killing it with mortal damage. Also - the value he brings with three*** free AOA per battle round has some serious value

[@samuelbaldwin2184]

That part of the spell isn't really worth considering. If you get the spell off and it is not unbound the chance of killing any of the banishment resistant manifestations is still practically a coin flip. So you have to win a coin flip to cast it, hope you opponent loses a coin flip to unbind it, and win a coin flip to make it worth it. There's a less than 1/8 probability the spell does what it's supposed to do. If the spell is cast but doesn't deal enough damage you can still do a banishment as well at least, but it would have to be with a different wizard.

[@rotm4447]

They're rating things with a 3e mindset, if eltharion is a 2/5 then my armies crap is full of zeroes. Lyrior has a 120ish point body, wizard anything is worth 100 with every hero slot super mattering and do more than one thing heroes are even higher value now, his AoA ability is about 100 points, but they'll rate the whole roster garbage because they're not all broken Ellathor.

[@strategoi]

I would agree with Samuel. It is still a good thing that you mention it, because it makes him uniquely effective against that specific thing, but it still seemed iffy to us. I'm happy a lot of you are more hyped about Lyrior though!

[@strategoi]

This exactly 👍😁

[@strategoi]

Can't deny it's a third E mindset, because there's no experienced fourth edition mindset yet, but I do still stand by the rating. Keep in mind that 2 stars was not bad. It meant it was suboptimal: something in the book does it better for the same points. For eltharion that's especially true. It doesn't make him a bad hero. But run him in a couple of games versus a decent ranged unit and you'll see him melt. Lyrior seems to be a contested topic. I understand getting three AoA's is very nice but whether that justifies giving your hery slot up for him is another another point altogether. I would actually argue that the value of hero slots is one of the prime reasons why he isn't a great pick.

[@RealKilli]

Great video! Do you have a table for the Bladelords for when to use perfect strike and when normal attacks?

[@strategoi]

Thanks, Kili! I think there's one in our previous videos. The one titled 'all the leaks so far', it has windcharger art on the thumbnail. If it isn't in there, feel free to ask for it in the discord. Siege definitely has the stats.

[@roubledoubledice7712]

For 4+ save or better perfect strike outperforms unless you have a spare CP for all out attack or PoH

[@adriendegeorges8669]

Thanks for the review. Totally agree with you, I'm so disappointed of Eltharion who lost so many and who just died so easily now.

[@strategoi]

I'm feeling a little less down on him now, but still so expensive... 🥹

[@adriendegeorges8669]

@@strategoi totally. 250pts for 6wounds is too much. He used to challenge any monster!

[@brandonbradley7060]

Lyrior is good if you have an army with good melee and ranged since you can AOA during melee, then during shooting, then again in your opponents turn, all for no command points. 3 free command points per turn. What does that damage table with windchargers look like when they get AOA? Probably a bit better. Who knows how the meta will shake out but im going to trying out Lyrior.

[@strategoi]

By all means, go for it! His free AoA is appealing for sure.

[@Table_Top_Tom]

Recently started playing my Lumineth and your videos have been so helpful. Is stacking two units of 10 x Wardens literally on top of each other for two chances at strike first against a charging unit a legitimate strategy?

[@strategoi]

Interesting. It could be, but then you'd have to wonder how effective one unit is going to be... 🤔

[@tristanchapman7247]

Solar Flare is better than banishment against Krondspine and the Purple Sun. These ones take 6 damage instead (wild form rule), so 3d6 means you could take them out in one shot.

[@strategoi]

Yeah, cool idea for sure, but still very unlikely (statistically).

[@ThKiller458]

New to AOS, settling on Lumineth and I'm quite sad that VLR is seen as so low! Glad im gonna bring 20 dawnriders then haha

[@strategoi]

Lots of people still run her and it's still very early to form any real judgement. So keep that in mind. You can do perfectly well with the Regent 😁

[@Cow118]

I love this videos but I can't understand the combo with E&E and bladelords? How they can buff each others? Thanks guys

[@strategoi]

The bladelords don't buff the twins, but you've got a wall of 20 models with a 4+ save and a 5+ Ward that does 9+ mortal damage on average and that's without the damage from the twins. So put the bladelords in front of the twins to soak up some damage and go to town. 😁

[@WindsOfMagic]

You mentioned you can't have power of hysh twice (on 2 units of sentinels) but if you take a Vanari formation, what's stopping you? Is there a once per battle round restriction on Facets?

[@strategoi]

Yes there is. So you could do it once 'for free' with the formation, but you'd have to choose a different facet on top of the power of hysh

[@WindsOfMagic]

@strategoi I guess I don't see anywhere it says to take a different Facet for the 2nd choice. Just says "can use Power of Hysh in addition to the other Facet you chose"

[@JonasFillet]

Yeah, 'the other' has to refer here to a different Facet, I think. I can see why you could interpret it differently though. In that same manner, you would then also be able to pick the alarith version twice for -2 Rend. 🤔 I'd love that to be true, I really do. I don't think it's the case though, sadly.

[@WindsOfMagic]

@@JonasFillet I'm sure they will clear up things down the road. Thanks for the reply!!

[@samuelbaldwin2184]

🐎time 2 ride🐎

[@benoitbocher8419]

Is the combo lord regent with perfect strike + charge of the lumineth + 10 dawnriders in a charge phase against infantry is not supposed to be amazing ? I feel like it is boosting up dawnriders + opening regiment for every vanari unit

[@strategoi]

Definitely strong, yes! If you have a lot of Dawnriders, it's worth it. Otherwise you could also consider running another five Dawnriders instead of a generic regent. It depends on what Heroes you need as well, obviously.