Can We Save This Heavily Damaged Pinball MPU? 1977 Williams Lucky Seven Battery Corrosion Repair

[@michaelcalvin42]

Recently, I repaired a broken HP-150 computer. It had horrible battery corrosion all over its video board. It took me several months of debugging (and waiting on parts) to get the thing functional again (17 dead chips), but it was a hell of a rush when it first booted and displayed a proper screen. I fully understand the fun and excitement of repairing old boards, rather than just replacing them. I second your opinion that everyone should try it out every now and then.

[@petesapwell]

Took the words right out of my mouth, there’s heritage and history in these old boards, they need love just like we do and gave so much back in their hay day, they deserve some respect! I’m like you, I run a small business and I make enough to get by I ain’t going to be buying a retirement island anytime soon, but I’m really happy doing what I do, Im proud of what I do and sometimes others are amazed and that’s pretty cool too, respect to you Ron. One day there will be nobody left that knows how…

[@timmooney7528]

Ugh, battery damage! Lots of respect to you for cleaning it up and keeping old machines alive.

[@midnitepagan9118]

The 70s was the end of "repair stuff yourself era." There is nothing more satisfying then repairing your own stuff than "throw away and replace."It doesn't have to be electronic. start small, fix a wooden box/ikea furniture. XD

[@NoelRamakers]

Leon was from Belgium, the small country I also live in. I also do board repair on old pinball and arcade games. But still have a lot to learn. Finding that one broken chip or trace to bring a board back to life is so satisfying. For me it's more fun than playing the game.

[@LyonsArcade]

He did some really cool stuff, I use his information to fix Bally sound boards as well. What a legend! Thanks for watching as always Noel!

[@NurdRage777]

@@LyonsArcade Many hidden legends/gems in our region. The issues are finding parts or broken units since most will end up in the e-waste bin or recycling center since not a lot of people think about repair anymore. They're going to buy "a new one".

[@leeroykitty758]

The joys of fixing it yourself - smoke tests, explosions, caps popping or it works lol. A lot of fun.

[@josephtrotter2860]

Ron, I love to fix things that most people would throw out. I bought 2 Bally -35 MPUs with battery damage just to see if I could save one or both. Just got my sound board for my Addams Family working again today. Heck the TV on my wall was headed to the trash but I saved it. Love it keep saving machines.

[@Moletheus]

I have worked in electronic repair for the last 15 years. I love how you explained the huge difference between replacing a component versus repairing a component. Not many "technicians" these days understand that.

[@SteveJones172pilot]

Could not agree more on the "repairing the originals is the real hobby" speech.. I have a Black Knight, Gorgar, and Flash, and I dont think I paid more than $600 total for them, all broken, and all fixed just like you're showing and now I'm proud they're running... well actually the Flash isn't running yet, but it will be soon!! I had intended to flip the Gorgar, but after I was done with it I had fallen in love with it so I kept it! LOVE the old williams stuff!!

[@markjackson1444]

Another board saved. Outstanding work as usual Ronnie. Thanks for the education and the entertainment.

[@irieman442]

I am really starting to like the solid state machines. I like them all but the solid state machines seem to be able to do some unique cool stuff. Thanks Leon!

[@MRNBricks]

Well said rant, sir. I hope I can get some old boards working again!

[@LyonsArcade]

You're doing real repair work man you're down to the sandpaper!

[@jimkuna8687]

That's why I like your videos because your old school and you like to fix things and bring them back to life for the fun and to challenge your skills nice...

[@jimallen9442]

Not sure I like battery damage repair videos but, 11 out of 10 for effort

[@yuwish6320]

For a board with that much corrosion, you might want to mix up a water bath of mild acidity (vinegar or other mild acid of your choice) and soak the entire board soak over-night. (A paint roller pan works well.) Rinse with hot water, then scrub. Repeat as many times as necessary to get all the battery corrosion off. Then rinse it in more hot water and let it dry before reinstallation or repair. edit: Oh, I see you started talking about vinegar at 12:30 or so. That'll teach me to post before watching the entire video.

[@timbober1]

Your videos are great. I’ve enjoyed pinball since I was a kid, I’ve even got the “gamers” in my life interested in playing. I grew up on the electromechanical games, i enjoy listening to them on your videos. I own a Williams Gorgar machine that’s very reliable thanks to a very good local tech.

[@goddessesstartrekonlinefle3061]

Thanks for filming this Ron! I agree highly with your "pure repair" philosophy. Fixing up a classic is so rewarding, knowing you've rescued something that would otherwise be lost (and people get to rediscover). Bringing back 'as intended', keeping original parts as practical / possible (not just lazily jamming in modern parts, unless the customer asks or there isn't another sensible choice). I think people (me included) fall into the trap of stopping doing their "best work" (not keeping the love of excellence in their particular field for its own sake), instead, becoming more conceerned with getting the MOST money for their efforts (and letting that redefine what their personal standard is). Totally understand why people fall for that trap (like I say, I fell into that myself). I'm am not anti-capitalist either, but, I am anti-the-way-capitalism-has-gone-today to the extent that, it forgets to reward people for doing amazing work, instead rewarding the work thats most profitable (and sometimes in everyones worst interest for a small number of peoples financial profit). That said, theres spaces where good old fashioned craft still goes, a pleasure to view! Thanks again :D

[@andymouse]

So cool to see that test ROM doing its thing after all that work....cheers.

[@skeleton_craftGaming]

I'm surprised someone hasn't made like a board that you could put in between the PIA and the board that like test them and make sure they Don't have any pins that are hung or anything

[@wackyworldofwindios3476]

I have learned a lot. love shanggo 66.

[@NotsureOk]

They don't make em as tough as that anymore. Nice repair ❤

[@philiproseberry8372]

Impressive thanks as always for sharing this video.

[@andrewdonohue1853]

i bought my firepower (working) about 10 years ago for $900 now firepower is around a 2k game. the good news is i dont feel bad about the new backglass, LEDs, and new display set i just ordered recently. it does make the old games worth spending a little on in order to keep it nice

[@fluffehgamer4712]

That process is neat

[@NurdRage777]

What I always first do with these alkaline acid damaged boards is soak it in vinegar to neutralize the acid and then clean it with regular tap water and let it thoroughly dry before I go and measure tracks repair tracks etc and apply UV curable solder mask. Nice video Joe always enjoy watching it :)

[@PunkTiger]

Holy mackerel! Those Duracell batteries are ancient! They still say "Mallory" on them! Edit: I see you referred to that. Still mind-blowing.

[@LyonsArcade]

I think they're they original batteries, from 1977!

[@toddreed1160]

Beautiful downtown historic Rock Hill, SC. ❤

[@toddreed1160]

Beautiful

[@LyonsArcade]

You know it!

[@naytch2003]

In a little video game store..in a South carolina town..Sat a man with a KZbin channel..and people came from all around to watch him fix...those arcades and pinballs

[@neverknowit11]

“It’s Broke!” We always had trouble with these sockets. I was happy when we bought better sockets. Yep! The new ones were cheaper cost. I had to re-solder mask the traces.

[@LyonsArcade]

Thank you for watching so much Robert, we appreciate it!!!

[@mycatsdead]

you are the man. disco inferno baby. good work nice to see it. many thanks.

[@pogostix6097]

I've got tailbone problems, I can understand the importance of having a good chair that doesn't hurt your backside. Hope your brother's pain issue is resolved soon! Pain sucks yo.

[@gavin2170]

“Hey Joe what’s wrong with you leg and back?” “It’s broke”

[@willierants5880]

Yup, this is the vid I've been waiting for. I have an MPU (in my case a late 70's Bally) with some pretty rotten battery damage. I'm hoping this video inspires me and shows me a thing or two so I can tackle my own. Well this was pretty straight forward, the problem is the cost for those that don't have the repair part stocks built up. EPROM burner, EPROMs, sockets, caps, resisters, etc. etc. The cost really adds up fast. I would much rather rebuild these old boards, but if I have to go replacing every component touched by alkaline I might as well just stick with the replacement MPU. Which is sad. I'm still going to give it a go, perhaps I'll get lucky and only have to replace some resistors and caps. Which I do have on hand. Still I loved the video though if you want the good and bad you blabbed a bit long on the true repairman part. Just say'n! 🤣 Keep bringing us these great pinball videos.

[@willierants5880]

Finally, real restoration and restoration channel, not wipe it down, replace some pop bumper caps and call it shopped.

[@PlumGurly]

I lived in Lexington, NC, and we had a Mallory plant there, then it become a Duracell plant sometime in the '80s.

[@juise15]

I wish you could make a video where you go through all the little components. Transistors, resistors, ic chips, etc. It would be awesome to have a resource to review as needed.

[@LyonsArcade]

Will do

[@juise15]

@@LyonsArcade my hero

[@cklinejr]

I just picked up an Atari Superman I’m looking forward to working through.

[@808v1]

I so agree with you Ron re pinball purchasing - I'd love to have one, but yeah 6k-10k CDN for a mediocre pin is just not feasible. I'm still thinking about virtual pinball table.

[@bobbyjack8033]

I'm just getting ready to head to the shop to grab boards for a fire power that is coming in Friday. Weird how we work on the same systems at the same time a lot. 😂

[@bperkins]

I haven't watched yet.. But "It's not horrible" comes to mind :P and If you filmed and released it - it works! Congrats :) Now to watch it..

[@LyonsArcade]

It's not HORRRRRIBBBBBLEEEEEE

[@bperkins]

@@LyonsArcade 🤣

[@bperkins]

I finished - nice work :)

[@PlumGurly]

I take it that the 7402 is a NOR gate. A curved line at the top of the "shield" means OR, two curved lines mean XOR, and flat means AND. And the little circle means inverted (NOTted), so Notted OR means NOR. If things aren't working without it, then tie the output high or low depending on what you need. So if it goes to /CS lines, then tie to 5V to disable and to Ground to enable. So this seems rather straightforward.

[@EsotericArctos]

They are only original once. You have to do best you can to repair it. I can understand new boards put in by board jockey's though. New board is reliable, where is there is no guarantee this board will last. But I prefer to save the original where I can. To be honest with you, I think those old "duraleak" batteries are the originals put in when the machine was made. Duracell use to be okay, but more recently they have a really high tendency to leak, hence "duraleak" being the name :). What a great find and a great game

[@skeleton_craftGaming]

Being proud in your work is a uniquely capitalistic thing.

[@LyonsArcade]

Definitely! Communism sucks

[@silentotto5099]

It occurs to me that the vintage Duracell battery is probably a pretty rare beast. Can't be many of those around outside of a landfill.

[@gallimead]

I've seen boards like that, williams flash system 4 was a dirty, furry mess. Thanks for video, and helping out with my strange science.

[@1971VoiceoftheMummy]

and another cool repair vid!

[@sethreichenbach1444]

I have aquired a Black Knight with Battery Damage i need to repair. I think i will rewatch the williams comet video you fixed with bad battery damage.

[@zyxxy]

Ron is the modern-day Dr. Frankenstein - he likes to create Life from dead parts. ;)

[@LyonsArcade]

Frankenstein is one of my favorite books!

[@zyxxy]

@@LyonsArcade Color me surprised 😉

[@naytch2003]

​@@LyonsArcade I watched frankenstein must be destroyed with my son when he was 6 years old lol 10 years later he still watches it

[@zyxxy]

as the song goes "Hey now, hey now now, sing this corrosion to me."

[@fred_derf]

Can We Save This Heavily Damaged Pinball MPU? I've got faith in you Ron!

[@JVHShack]

Just wanted to help, but if an off-board battery solution is appealing, look for "Ron's Computer Videos" and "battery". He created a PCB to hold 2 CR2032 batteries and it is able to be mounted anywhere in any machine. I know that it was created with a Macintosh II in mind and 6v is more than 4.5v, but I believe it would work here. I also know that his PCB is open source. Maybe instead of 2 CR2032s, 1 CR2032 plus an LR44 could be used together to have the 4.5v?

[@waynegram8907]

JOE CLASSIC, Does the Service Bulletin say anything about why they wanted to remove C27, R30, R40 and add in a 10K resistor instead for what reasons? The reset circuit must have been causing certain problems which the service bulletin should say. What are the Flipper ROM's doing to the game board? For all pinball games I thought the flipper coils don't use the PIA chips and it doesn't make sense why the flipper coils would need the Flipper ROM's that has data code.

[@londonpinball]

"If you're not willing to do this, are you really a pinball repair guy?" --- I appreciate very much what you're saying here, I really do. And I love your videos to death. But time is money and I don't have all day to repair a MPU that has severe alkaline damage. If I were doing this as a hobby, maybe. But with a large list of clients and a long wait list, a new board will be a) quicker, b) cheaper for the customer in the long run, c) likely more reliable in the long run and d) won't take me all day! Now, I find the "fun" part of pinball repair being able to diagnose and fix issues. But when a board is past a certain point... yeah, just replace it. It's not worth my TIME. If there weren't any new boards available... then you do what you gotta do. EDIT: After watching more and listening to what you say, I have to say that I completely agree with you. Repairing stuff like this is definitely the purest and most rewarding activity. If you're doing it for the love of the game and the love of the hobby, then there's nothing better. LOVE WHAT YOU DO! Have a wonderful day!

[@LyonsArcade]

Thank you for watching!

[@michaelnippert945]

I graduated high school in 1977.

[@AvengerII]

@7:00 -- Master of the Obvious Says -- If you're going to leave things in LONG-TERM storage (over a month or more) and NOT use your electronics, ALWAYS (x1000!) remove the batteries from things like remotes (TV, VCR, DVD Player, your network streaming cable box)! Batteries have a terrible tendency to rupture when they haven't been used in a long time (months or years)! I've had too many batteries rupture in remotes that were stored long-term or unused. Do yourselves favors and take the batteries out of anything you don't intend to use for a long time! I'm lucky I've been able to clean up and reuse all of the things that HAVE had battery ruptures. So far, all the remotes that have had battery ruptures still work! I had them lying flat down with the input keys up (keyboard face for the technically illiterate) so that the battery fluids did NOT drip onto the PCB's of the remotes! The battery contacts did get a chemical bath but I managed to clean them up. I tested the remotes and they were all still useable...

[@LyonsArcade]

It seems to be getting worse with modern batteries too

[@AvengerII]

@@LyonsArcade Yep! I only keep batteries in 2 remotes that I use all the time. My TV and Blu ray player remotes! Everything has been de-batteried until I need to use the suckers! I learned my lesson after too many close calls! In fact, I have 3 old Sega Dreamcasts arcade sticks I modded with new retro-console PCB's and installed LEDs running off 3-V (2x 1.5V AA) battery circuit. When I remember, I pushed the LED button to illuminate them! The LED is for artwork highlighting; it has no game function! I did something simple and cheap for my amusement! If you don't drain the batteries regularly, they tend to "back up" and the casings WILL rupture as I've discovered the hard way personally... Not with these joysticks, thankfully!

[@jameskearney4100]

Ah, Memories!!

[@skeleton_craftGaming]

Given the fact that the eProms are Motorola 2 and that the PIDs had 6800 part numbers. I would assume that the MPU that they use is a 6800...

[@LyonsArcade]

You are correct!

[@BillFroog]

Absolutely!!!

[@BillFroog]

I started with a first gen Zaccaria. Once I got that going I knew this was for me . Mind you I've always been fixing...

[@matthewgoode6695]

Have you tired using a fiberglass pen to clean the board vs a wire brush? they give you more control in a smaller area so you don't eat the solder mask as much. Plus they are handy on modern boards with small traces. Don't get me wrong, They can and will still remove mask and potently traces if you scrub to hard. I prefer to leave as much mask as possible on boards as exposed traces corrode overtime. Exposed traces should be re-masked or solder applied to them to keep them from oxidizing.

[@MRNBricks]

Do you have more access to Clay’s site than the general person? Some of the stuff you talk about being on there I haven’t seen when reading through his stuff.

[@LyonsArcade]

I copied his entire website back before he took it down, send me an email and I can send you whatever you're looking for. Basically he used to have a guide up for every system, but the pinball 'community' almost ruined his life about 15 years ago so he threatened to delete everything, took it all down then put it back up, etc. Some of it isn't back up. He had a pinball club he had started with some of his friends, they rented a building and renovated it and put a bunch of machines in there. Some of the other pinball nerds put an ad on craigslist saying they were giving away free beer, had hookers, all this crap and they posted it on the 'events' page of craiglist. The only people that read the 'events' page of craigslist are local government employees basically, so somebody saw the 'ads' and had the building inspector and the fire marshall go over to see what kind of party they were trying to have, and got him in all kinds of trouble with the authorities, etc. and he had to close the place down. He wasn't having parties, it was just his friends playing pinball. When the building inspector showed up, he thought the guy was just trying to play pinball, so he blew the guy off and drove away, because the guy didn't indentify himself. It cost him like 10 grand.

[@cyberfez]

Hi Ron @LyonsArcade - Can you download the Leon Borre Rom or do you have to buy them. I thought I would be able to download and write it to my own eprom. Is that the case? if so where do I fine the binary file? Love your work, Raphael

[@johnlongmore5750]

Is it ever worth replacing the conformal-coating / board-varnish over the traces after getting the dead battery guts off them? Or is that not really necessary for board health over any kind of reasonable timescale

[@askjacob]

The traces are tinned on these boards, so no need for protection reasons, but go for it for cosmetic reasons... Newer PCBs will be bare copper under the resist (green paint) so will need protecting or they will corrode over time just from being exposed to air.

[@TomStorey96]

The traces won't corrode, just oxidise. But oxidised traces are still perfectly fine. The resist (not conformal coating) is only to stop solder from sticking where it isn't wanted. It's not really any form of protection, although incidentally it can sometimes help to stop leaky batteries from eating away the traces.

[@PlumGurly]

Off-topic: There is a "Bad Idea Barta Board" that lets you install 16 rechargeable PCB batteries (not connected to anything other than a charging circuit) on it in any older computer with an ISA slot. It really isn't intended to be installed or used, but you can. That was more of a gag gift. I guess it's for suckers for punishment. Imagine the corrosion... 16 leaking batteries, hmm, that could eat a hole in the bottom of the machine, perhaps.

[@LyonsArcade]

From what I understand even the gas that comes off the batteries is corrosive, lol That thing would be like a ticking time bomb

[@samuelcolvin4994]

Good grief, Tarrytown was where the built my car!

[@pfeinauer]

Is that Leon's test rom V2 or V.5?

[@davidphillips7321]

So Will Duracell Warranty This Circuit Board - Because There Battery - Ruined It ?

[@ocsrc]

400 volts I still have chills thinking there is 400 volts in the back box. What were they thinking 🤔😯

[@Thnker100]

Just curious, did you wait to publish this until you knew it was repairable later?

[@LyonsArcade]

No, everything is repairable. So I knew I could repair it because I wouldn't stop until it was repaired

[@grandpaseed]

Lucky Seven

[@RS-ls7mm]

The old stuff was the best. The new stuff was getting too tedious to design (spent way too much time on signal integrity) and nearly impossible to fix or debug.

[@NivagSwerdna]

@20:20 OK we get it... you're one of the cool kids.

[@RPike-bq3xm]

I would of bent the leg of pin 9 and left it clear of the socket instead of cutting the trace.

[@lileveretteyoakumiii]

Yodelayheehoo

[@LyonsArcade]

Lil Everette, where have you been!!!????

[@lileveretteyoakumiii]

@@LyonsArcade busy

[@ocsrc]

You and Donny should figure out how to 3D scan and print. There are lots of plastic parts that are no longer made.

[@greendean]

Get yourself a a couple gallons of Isopropyl Alcohol 99.8%. Put the board in a casserole dish. Let it soak. Then wash rinse and repeat with the alcohol. No soldiering, unsoldiering, no scrubbing. Thank me with a T-shirt or a keychain.

[@samuelcolvin4994]

I guess I'm one of those repairmen, although due to wages where I grew up there are quite a few of us, due to thriftiness/cheapness possibly🤣🤣🤣

[@deant1296]

Ten thousand for a new game?? I bought a new in box Judge Dredd for four thousand Cad, when it was released.

[@LyonsArcade]

I think 7k is the absolute cheapest now.

[@DavidWilliams-rn6uq]

The Russian judge only gave it a 4.

[@douglasRbrown]

LOL, 40+ year old Batt

[@jimkuna8687]

It started in 1964 lol

[@naytch2003]

Nope never heard of shango66

[@LyonsArcade]

It's Broke

[@naytch2003]

@@LyonsArcade esta roto?

[@LyonsArcade]

@@naytch2003 Si

[@naytch2003]

@@LyonsArcade ahh..grassy ass 👌

[@ocsrc]

The question is, how much is your time worth and how busy are you ? You have to add up the 4 hours and your wage and the extra time and parts. If you can buy a new board for 100 dollars, you should buy a new board. 200, maybe it is worth doing it. I wish I could find someone who could 3D Print the DTMF keypads I need. I think the cost is going to be more than buying a brand new radio.

[@hgbugalou]

It also depends if you just enjoy it. Work isn't work if you are having a good time.

[@williamcooper2368]

IT'S BROKE RODNEY.

[@certee]

Cant listen if people are sniffing >,

[@kander2]

Don't be touching those batteries with your skin!

[@ray73864]

IC dead people :P

[@LyonsArcade]

hehehehe

[@mammam6472]

Very good vid....and... YA..... shango066 RULES...!!!

[@dkd1228]

You are right about shango066. Amazing stuff.

[@douglasRbrown]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._R._Mallory_and_Co_Inc