Mabel ISN'T Terrible, Actually (Gravity Falls)

[@cookieblobber]

Something I find rly ironic about that scene with Ford suggesting an internship to Dipper and basically dissing Mabel, is that when he brings up an example of Dipper's editing of his journal that impressed him, he just so happens to show the one where he edited the gnomes' unknown weakness to be leaf blowers. But if you recall, he didn't figure that out without the help of Mabel by putting trust in whatever plan she had in mind. Ford was implying that Mabel was holding Dipper back when he had proof right there on how much Mabel helps him out in learning more about the town's supernatural side

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

Wait, you're right

[@TavinOriginal]

whoa, that's an awesome observation there

[@peppermintcutie5327]

Ford was projecting his sibling issues on Dipper HARD at that moment, but so many people refused to accept it at the time when I thought it was so obvious

[@tatumhuber9826]

There’s a whole episode plot about this too! The one where they have Pioneer Day and we find out how smart Mabel really is and her “silliness” is what makes them a team. Dipper couldn’t of done countless things without Mabel

[@cookieblobber]

@@tatumhuber9826 exactly!!

[@postcents]

the fact the 12 year old girl who is flawed just like the rest of the cast got more heat than the grown man who kickstarted the shows conflict because of a situationship with a triangle will never not astound me

[@glimmerstantroop46321]

Kinda reminds me of people who salt Candace (from Phineas and Ferb) but excuse Doof (from the same show).

[@froggyjoebday90210]

@@glimmerstantroop46321yeah I sympathize with both of them a hair more so for Candace cause I know what it feels like to have the world out for you

[@Kuppy2.0]

I do believe at times Mabel can be annoying and the weakest written character in the main cast. But she is Far From the worst character.

[@postcents]

@@WilliamAfton-n7doh yeah, I’m not blaming Ford either. None of them deserve hate for being emotionally manipulated by Bill worming his way into their lowest moments/insecurities. Though, he absolutely deserves flack for being the one to cause weirdmageddon all because he was too stuck up to let dipper tell mabel about the rift.

[@swingusinners6001]

I'm telling y'all a lot of people have a weird underlying hatred for young girls. We see this time and time again in any media depicting them, it's sad tbh.

[@handhelder823]

Mable isn’t a bad person, she is flawed in a realistic way and that isn't a bad thing

[@ThorDude]

I HATE the idea many people have that flawed characters are bad characters somehow. The best argument I've seen is that she causes a lot of the conflicts, but two were because she's a teenager who can't grapple with huge changes, and most of the rest are only tangentially her fault

[@handhelder823]

​@@ThorDudeexactly. The conflict she causes are because of realistic fears and desires for a girl her age, not some sort of genuine malice

[@BlillCipher]

​@@handhelder823her being flawed just show that she is an actual human being trying to learn more about the world around her

[@divine555]

To be fair their both selfish in their own ways, maybe dipper is even worse, I don't get why she gets the hate even with her being like that

[@raymondthrone7197]

The problem isn't that she's flawed lol, it's that the show doesn't care about reflecting on that outside of narrow circumstances and has zero interest in portraying that her actions have consequences. Or at the very least, portraying her as having any ownership whatsoever of those consequences. Dipper is also a flawed 12 year old. Dipper also gets beaten to a pulp by a fighting game character.

[@maplepainttube8158]

The time travelers pig episode argument always bugged me, people used to actually act like Mable was in the wrong for not wanting to give up waddles to help dipper with his time travel scheme. Like irl if my brother gave away my new puppy to impress a girl, and refused to give it back, he would be dead to me.

[@babyfaceweeb8937]

Facts!

[@jmej01]

not just a girl, but A GIRL HE DOESNT EVEN HAVE A CHANCE WITH!!!!!

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

*Spoiler Alert in the Book of Bill:* At least Waddles is the very reason why Bill Cipher ultimately lost in that one timeline out of all the alternate timelines where the Pine Twins met their demise.

[@spoontyphoon8997]

At 18:57, do people also not consider that if she refuses to give him the book, and Bill drops her, she could get seriously hurt, or worse, DIE? And let's not forget her fear of heights either. Like, she's really brave for going against him, and really lucky it worked out- because good lord that was dangerous.

[@SunflwerO_Possum]

Great point, would have never thought about that.

[@itsthejavavoid]

i was about to say she didnt have that fear- but then i remembered Fight Fighters where in the process of trying to cure stan's fear she developed her own 😅

[@TheMusicalNight]

I ACTUALLY FORGOT ABOUT HER FEAR OF HIEGHTS!

[@STAYINGUPFOREVER]

People always forget that Dipper's desire to stay as Ford's apprentice was also escapism. l've found that people who characterize Mabel as malicious have a tendency to erase the most interesting parts of Dipper's character to push this narrative. To make it short, Alex has stated multiple times that Dipper wants to grow up too fast. He's a kid that doesn't want to be a kid. Ford was granting him an opportunity to speedrun the drudgery of childhood AND he was playing into Dipper's "lone genius" complex. (As only one example, Mabeland!Wendy plays into this complex by telling Dipper he’s smarter than everyone else and using that as a segue way to try to convince him to stay.) Dipper outright says in the finale that the fact that he was going to stay cooped up in a basement for the rest of his teenage years was ridiculous. Both twins were escaping from their reality. I mean for fuck's sake, the show ends with Mabel going "it's time to grow up" and Dipper elbowing her and going "but not too fast!" Dipper taking that apprenticeship would've been a *bad thing* that would've isolated him from the world the same way it isolated Ford. *Edit* I’m trying to reply to the replies but KZbin keeps blocking all of them from being seen for some reason. Anywho to elaborate, yeah I think the show could’ve done better highlighting this because a lot of the show’s context lies in either commentary or books and idk if I think that’s great. That’s probably what made it easy for people to overlook the fact that Dipper had his own issues to work through, which culminated into the finale. I don’t blame anyone for thinking the apprenticeship was a great idea, but it’s escapism because Dipper was trying to escape his reality as a 12 year old boy. The entire series is him trying to be older than he is, which is in itself an immature quest for maturity. Ford was projecting on him though, and he saw a lone genius being held back by family. If Ford and McGucket could barely handle exploring Gravity Falls, why would a 12 year old be any better at it? It's escapism because that's exactly it; it's not a good fate for a child. Dipper doesn't want to be a kid, he wants to grow up unhealthily fast and just get it all over with. He has a similar complex to Ford's. Ford's fatal flaws, what caused all this, were his self isolation, pride, and lack of trust. Those were the same values he was instilling in Dipper. The same Dipper who would share everything with Mabel, withheld information about the rift, allowing Bill to manipulate the Pines family the same way he always does. Reminder that in the very first episode, the journal warned Dipper not to trust anyone but he still immediately trusted Mabel with the information. Family and trust is a big theme in gravity falls. TBOB literally ends with Ford telling the reader that everything is easier when you trust your family to help you.

[@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel]

also it probably would've socially fucked dipper up

[@STAYINGUPFOREVER]

@@Cinnamonraisin_BagelOh 100%, just like the video said, Ford was walking Dipper down the same path he took McGucket. I can understand kids seeing the offer and thinking it was great for Dipper, but I cannot understand adult fans somehow thinking that would’ve ended well. edited for clarity lol

[@robertdelossantos5844]

It sucks because the show failed to really highlight the pitfalls of Dipper making that choice on screen. Dipper ends up having that revelation in S2E19, but it always felt like an afterthought and one liner. An excuse rather than a revelation. It’s great hearing Hirsch’s intent with the moment for context, but I do think show vs tell is important. Always why I’m bummed he never broke the dream scene being Ford’s apprentice. That would’ve been ideal imo, and this is coming from someone who not only doesn’t hate the Dipper/Wendy stuff, but finds context/growth/easter eggs in the Weirdmageddon Dipper/Wendy scene.

[@STAYINGUPFOREVER]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@robertdelossantos5844Agreed, I have a lot more criticisms watching the show now that I’m older. Besides some continuity issues, my main gripe is that a lot of really important context is outside of the show itself. On one hand, I think a lot of Dipper’s own flaws get pushed under the rug because fans of the show project on him and their desires align with his (which is why it’s easier to dog on Mabel when she doesn’t want the same things). Like to be quite honest, his selfishness, lone genius complex, and desire to speedrun childhood are all pretty easy to spot. But on the other hand, I do wish the show had done more to highlight why his decisions weren’t great in the long run, because fans will see instances of Dipper being selfish and still somehow paint it as him being a victim to Mabel (Waddles episode). I agree with everything you said. (Though I’m not sure what dream scene you’re referring to? Would love to know!) I had no idea people hated the subplot of Dipper’s crush on Wendy though? I feel like that was always where most of his flaws were highlighted and it made for pretty cool character moments from the both of them.

[@rokibatadetulubo6396]

​@@robertdelossantos5844 yeah the show could've done better tbh

[@lackingcreativevalue]

Stanley: (uses the portal to save Ford, thus creating a rift that could give Bill a permanent way into the dimension) Stanford: (hides the rift and doesn't explain it to anyone except Dipper) Dipper: (carries the rift around in a backpack even after it was fixed instead of handing it over to Ford) Mabel: (gives the rift up to Bill-endin after she was manipulated in an already emotionally volatile state) *Those* Fans: THIS IS ALL MABEL'S FAULT!!!

[@Heli-draws]

"This is all your fault, Jafar!"

[@lackingcreativevalue]

@@Heli-draws Based Twisted reference

[@raymondthrone7197]

Everyone of those characters actually suffered for that decision, tho. Except Mabel.

[@tootsiepop13]

@@raymondthrone7197Idk Weirdmaggedon seems like a major consequence. One that she personally made sure to rectify (like the rest of her family)

[@blankuser987]

@@raymondthrone7197 idk, being trapped in a prison bubble (even if it was "giving her everything she wanted." Even then, it was all completely superficial and designed to prevent her from escaping while the entire world collapses outside) is a bit of a problem to have!

[@LilyTheSmol]

Also Book of Bill reveals that the plan Bill came up with to get the rift from Mabel was formed because HE LOOKED INTO HER HEAD AND SAW HER INSECURITIES.

[@DravenEgg]

So he had already planned it

[@nickbritt1145]

He knew the weakness was there. The problem was how to exploit it. And then Blendin got made fun of by Time Baby and, well…..the rest is history.

[@Doublemonk0506]

Also, weren't Dipper, Pacifica, and Wendy targets for manipulation

[@RiseLeon_Turtle]

​@Doublemonk0506 yeah, dippers was about seeing a fight from their parents

[@starforce531]

Remember when Dipper almost got everyone killed in Summerween? Remember when he almost got Robbie killed by Rumble? Remember when he raised the dead? Remember when he kept the rift secret from Mable?Mable haters don't.

[@infinityheart_tm9270]

Remember Snake Fortress?

[@royalxprincessbaka6875]

Pepperidge farm remembers.

[@poo8870]

Remember when Dipper screwed with a Time Machine just so he could give Wendy a plush doll?

[@poo8870]

@@SkylarThompson-mu1qs Agreed.

[@Dawid23_Gamer]

To be fair, he was so disappointed in himself right after "Dipper, what's the one thing I asked you not to do tonight?" "Raise the dead..." "And what did you do?" _"Raise the dead..."_

[@bryandraws5163]

I remember in the CC West video he unironically uses the joke of Mabel screaming “Death” in the episode where they face Blendan in Globnar as a point against her.

[@royalxprincessbaka6875]

Did he forget that Blendin literally try to erase Dipper and Mabel from existence.

[@Im2lazy4thisCrit]

Yeah Mabel isn’t exactly in the wrong for wanting Blendan to die there 😅

[@craigpeoples9883]

​@@Im2lazy4thisCritNope

[@darth_autismo]

I forgot how funny that scene was

[@zombies4evadude24]

Yeah that's genuinely ridiculous. That was obviously a throw away joke that the episode itself explains isn't indicative of Mabel's feelings about Blendin and she mostly just acted impulsively. I mean the "blackmail" scene in Deep End I don't really like and was also intended as a one off joke as well but I can admit the Death thing just slipped out like the "I am the God of Destruction!" Her saying out of pocket things sometimes is funny.

[@themaskedfacade9939]

I always took issue with some of the points made in the original "Mabel is Terrible" video where it felt like they were just looking for an excuse to criticize Mabel. Like at one point they blame Mabel for how Gideon tried to kill Dipper in The Hand that Rocks the Mabel. Now, while it was irresponsible for her to have someone break up for her (which first of all she realized in that very episode and second of all it was Dipper's idea to begin with, she didn't force it on him), how exactly Gideon being a possessive psychopath is supposed to be Mabel's fault to begin with is beyond me. And then there's the whole thing with Mabel choosing not to press the button to shut down the portal, which the video framed as being a bad thing as it implied she trusted Stan more than her own brother. Again, this feels like a stretch made to make Mabel look bad. I feel it's less that she trusts Stan more than Dipper, and more she doesn't want someone she loves to be evil. They also used this as reason to blame her for the rift existing in the first place, which is just really ridiculous to accuse her of. She's so disconnected from that thing existing that it makes more sense to blame Ford for making the portal or Stan trying to reuse the portal for the rift being created.

[@laraprisma6381]

Also, about The Hand that Rocks the Mabel, it's completely normal that a person like Mable who likes to see the good in everyone and clearly enjoys making others happy wouldn't have the courage to break someone's heart even if she felt uncomfortable. Many people in real life have a hard time rejecting someone they still want to be friends with. It's not her fault that she didn't have courage, she's not selfish for being like that, SHE'S A CHILD! Also, she didn't know that Gideon had a magical amulet, she would have no way of knowing that he would be capable of hurting someone!

[@themaskedfacade9939]

@@laraprisma6381 Absolutely yeah. There are just so many layers about the whole "it's Mabel's fault that Gideon tried to kill Dipper" argument that just doesn't work. Granted though, CC West was the only one I've ever seen seriously use that argument.

[@STAYINGUPFOREVER]

Honestly, I’d go as far as to cut her even more flack for the Gideon thing because in the episode, you can see that she was being pressured by everybody. When she was about to break up with Gideon at the restaurant, a large crowd gathered and basically insinuated she would be a monster if she broke up with him. Then their relationship got all over the newspaper and she felt even more pressure to stay in a clearly uncomfortable situation. That’s why she was scared to break up. (And ik it’s a gag but an old woman says she’d die of a heart attack if Mabel rejected Gideon lol, which made Mabel sweat and back down).

[@derekg5006]

I haven't seen that cc west video in years and I refuse to believe those were unironically his talking points

[@blissfulrain]

The "Mabel is at fault for Gideon" is even worse than that cause Gideon was using social pressure to keep Mabel in the relationship. This can be a common abuse tactic used to keep victims in relationships. So the implication that someone caring for you stepping in to help you out of such a situation into a bad thing is just plain awful. Also it turns an instance of Dipper being a good brother into a negative for no reason.

[@ACStation206]

"[Mabel] knows in her core that Dipper's quest for maturity is, in itself, immature. So whenever he takes himself too seriously, it is her duty... to keep him in that kid space where he should be." - Alex Hirsch Just figured I put this out there

[@Im2lazy4thisCrit]

[@carpiim]

goat

[@DostoyevskyTolstoy]

Good dad.

[@katium9176]

"Where he should be" Why? You can't just force him to give up everything he's worked so hard for just because you don't agree with it. I'm sorry, but he made it sound like Dipper doesn't deserve to be different when he feels like it. And Mabel being the kid here should not excuse what she did throughout the series, she at least deserves to be scolded for her actions, too. Yet we've seen none of it and instead was told to feel bad for her even when she's "owning up" to it. Also, his quest for maturity being labeled as immature is like saying that growing up is childish. That literally makes no sense, unless you're saying that there's a better way to mature than to slobber all over the one girl who's obviously older than him.

[@isaacplayer4268]

I've never been fond of this dynamic. It always comes across like Dipper is just asking to be taken seriously, and Mabel (and Stan) just outright refuse and belittle him. I actually felt really bad for Dipper when he said Ford doesn't make fun of him like they do.

[@eb-the-gamer6287]

Im surprised more people dont dislike Ford more for the reasons they dislike Mabel, he embodies the selfishness they critisize her for a lot more despite being an adult.

[@unqualifiedtoast700]

The difference is that Fords is acknowledged in the story to be selfish, and worked through it. The writers put a blind eye towards Mabel being selfish, and didn't let her work through it or even acknowledge it. It's the writing that kills Mabel's character, and helps Ford's character despite them having the same flaw.

[@jaceladag]

That's fandom misogyny for ya. God forbid a girl be anything but perfect (and even then if she's too perfect...)

[@robertdelossantos5844]

@@jaceladag iono, people love Wendy and she’s literally a Mary Sue (Hirsch has stated in interviews they felt they were dishonoring Wendy whenever they tried to write a story for her because it felt ooc to the cool image they played up in their heads of her)

[@STAYINGUPFOREVER]

@@robertdelossantos5844Tbf, fandom misogyny doesn’t mean that those people hate *every* single female character ever. But it’s probably easier to love a female character who’s cool and perfect over a complex female protagonist, isn’t it? It’s why a lot of those gamergate misogynists love Lara Croft but have a lot of vitriol for the concept of woke woman character in gaming.

[@jaceladag]

@@STAYINGUPFOREVER YEAH! This exactly. Not to mention Wendy's primary role in the story is to be Dipper's love interest. It's not hard to see how the love interest of the twin the audience would be most likely to identify with would elevate her in their eyes and make the "too perfect" thing count in her favor rather than against.

[@burgerlord7530]

One of Mabel's first lines were "Yay, grass!" This was a subtle reference to the fact that people who actively hate Mabel do not touch grass

[@WolfTrot]

Thats genius

[@RatmicemouseYT]

fr

[@scarf_girl]

In Russian dub what she says might be misinterpreted as "Hooray, weed"

[@redguyslave409]

@@scarf_girlthe haters are high 😭😭

[@thiaralovesu]

618 likes

[@bullahboi3064]

14:19 actually in the directors commentary Alex Hirsch clarified that there never was a timer on the laptop and bill made dipper imagine it

[@twideslauriers7875]

I dont really see why people think Mabel is selfish in the time traveller’s pig. She is absolutely willing to help Dipper with his plan which is doomed to fail regardless because Wendy will simply never date a 12 year old boy as a 15 year old girl, and only objects when Waddles is won by Pacifica, someone who she knows will likely abuse the poor thing at this stage in her development. She is the reasonable one in this episode, not Dipper. Yeah Robbie sucks but at this point in the show he hasn’t shown any abusive tendencies, Dipper just doesn’t like him because he actually has a shot with Wendy. And Wendy doesn’t get severely hurt. And Mabel even gets Waddles to help dunk on Robbie in the end! She is selfish and naive sometimes, yeah. So is Dipper. They’re 12 and also normal humans who aren’t perfect all the time.

[@platinumg.8614]

And like, Waddles is like a pet for her. IMAGINE seeing you pet getting with a bad person

[@amethystimagination3332]

It pisses me off because that whole episode was about Dipper trying to override Wendy’s freewill and treating her like a dating sim character. But somehow Mabel is the villain for wanting to save her pet from getting eaten.

[@tootsiepop13]

@@amethystimagination3332 Literally! The Deep End is the same thing lol. Dipper cares more about keeping his job that he only cares about so he can woo Wendy, than he does the 12 yrs boy trying to go home. If anything, Mabel is the selfless one in that episode because she’s helping him get home, despite having a crush on him. And Wendy gets fired too, so Dipper didn’t lose anything significant

[@lifeisadrag7705]

@@amethystimagination3332 BRO EXACTLY. My partner when watching it with me for the first time was shocked when I told him that people thought Mabel was selfish in that episode- like genuinely how???

[@oncreativemode5486]

if anything both are equally selfish in that they wanted to keep one loved one in their arms. the difference was wendy can (and has) change her mind about dating robbie, and waddles is irreplaceable who can't escape pacifica's clutches

[@Phobie_2000]

for YEARS I’ve never known people hate Mabel. I thought the entire Gravity Falls cast was universally beloved because they’re all such good characters.

[@pancakes8670]

A lot of the fandom got pretty weird about her. Personally if you ask me I think there might be elements of sexism in the trend, but that's me.

[@STAYINGUPFOREVER]

@@pancakes8670Ppl rlly dislike when anybody calls her hate bandwagon “misogyny”, but that’s how it rings to me too. I mean, she was more hated than Bill, the dream demon that did more to harm Dipper than she ever could.

[@resumethyvideo7631]

@@STAYINGUPFOREVERwe hate mable because she’s annoying, Bill is for all intensive purposes a pure evil character while Mabel is a shitty brat who causes massive problems she may just be an average 12 year old girl but that doesn’t mean the problems she’s caused didn’t happen. She is selfish and she is insufferable but if she was just like every other 12 year old girl and her selfish actions didn’t have MASSIVE CONSEQUENCES we wouldn’t hate her nearly as much.

[@Bondrewddy]

@@resumethyvideo7631 24:07

[@theanimatinggamer2264]

Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video. ​@@resumethyvideo7631

[@Themoonishereagain]

Mabel and Grunkle Stan are my two favorite characters of Gravity Falls. And this show is my second favorite animated show of all time ever.

[@louisgamer1219]

Can you tell me your first?

[@SecretMagician]

​@louisgamer1219, I'm not OP, but it's ATLA for me

[@louisgamer1219]

@@SecretMagician that’s a good show

[@Themoonishereagain]

@@louisgamer1219 Neon Genesis Evangelion

[@Themoonishereagain]

@@SecretMagician That's my third favorite of all time ever ❤

[@StoryTeller796]

Honestly, I think people looked at Mabel being the pure embodiment of childish chaos and complete, unfiltered, unashamed emotional honesty as something incredibly cringe. I mean, I would too because in all honesty, I remember being just like Mabel and I was heavily punished or criticized for it throughout my entire life, particularly in school. People hate Mabel not because she's a bad person, but because despite everything that happens around her, she is still determined to be true to herself and follow her own moral compass despite everyone and everything around her telling her square in the face that she shouldn't. "She should slow down and start to doubt her actions," "She doesn't and cannot understand what is going on," "She is messing with things beyond mortal comprehension" "WhY wOuLd AnYoNe HeLp ThEiR dUmB bRoThEr OvEr TaKiNg WhAt ThEy WaNt?" Fundamentally, Mabel might be one of the more emotionally mature characters while Dipper is the more mentally mature character throughout the entire series, not on any individual action that either have taken but from the sheer fact that after they're being the immature kids they are, they realize what the mature thing to do is. Something Bill Cipher not only misses the entire point of but actively despises.

[@geministrial950]

You are what is known as correct. People have some insanely vitriolic hate for anyone who dares to be unapologetically themselves in all their chaotic, creative glory. Just look at how many "cringe compilations" are genuinely just people having fun in their own weird ways without harming anyone, many of them being (you guessed it) children who should still be allowed to be that way. And I 100% understand that because I've been that "weird kid" everyone loved to dunk on because I didn't obsess over growing up like everyone else did

[@MachinaOwl]

@@geministrial950 Being yourself is dangerous and vulnerable. That's why people don't like it.

[@geministrial950]

@@MachinaOwl Being human is dangerous and vulnerable. Being afraid of an unavoidable fact of life sure doesn't ring me as a good way to live. If you spend your time shielding yourself from the world you'll never enjoy anything.

[@StoryTeller796]

@geministrial950 @geministrial950 why didn't KZbin notify me of your comments? Also, yeah! I was a strange kid growing up, such a strange kid. In fact, I both understand and don't understand each decision I've ever made back then, but I've made those choices for reasons I do not understand, relate with, or find myself asking "Why did everything had to work out in the way it had to work out?" On the topic of vulnerability, yes I believe that being vulnerable should be something that should be more encouraged in our society, but since it isn't and we all have to pretend like we're perfect despite the about sane ones knowing full well we aren't, interactions and socializing with other people is a hell I don't want anyone to go through but have to watch in both agony and fear as I have to watch people being restrictive with others' behaviors, behaving really stupidly, or just overall being social and psychological messes in some societies. Yet in those where people actually have their crap figured out or at least can always be respectful towards each other, those are nice, I like those.

[@gumbolthreemillion41]

being a middle school girl at the time gravity falls was airing and seeing myself in mabel, it always felt so awful seeing people (often adult men) hating on her so vehemently. back then i wasn't able to express exactly how i felt they were wrong and ended up doubting myself for many years. now that im an adult who has rewatched the show multiple times i realize that a lot of people just don't have any kind of media literacy and simplified the truly interesting and multi-faceted characters that gravity falls has to offer. not only that but i do believe some misogyny was at play. i'm glad newer fans seem to be less prone to that type of thing and can see the bigger picture.

[@koshavinka2995]

*who has rewatched the show Sev'ral Timez

[@DarkSidedOtter]

“We want a female character that is complex and imperfect! 😩” *Mabel exists* “She is the worst character that has ever graced our screens.”

[@Sumamelaradio]

Fr💀

[@SigmaAirplaneBalls]

imo shes not that complex

[@Pelican07.23]

​@ZethTheGoat666 compare to most characters in the show she is.

[@RancorSnp]

She's not complex, and just because she is imperfect doesn't make it good. She may very well be the only character in all of animation that I actually hate. She has 0 redeeming qualities. And that's perfectly fine if the intention of the writers were for the viewer to hate her, but I do not think it is.

[@ProxiProtogen]

Mable is definitely not a complex character.

[@kirake2020]

Fun Fact: In Dipper and Mabel vs The Future, there was supposed to be a scene where Mabel has a phone call with her parent, who tell her she can't bring Waddles home.

[@Quackervoltz]

WHAT

[@laraprisma6381]

MAN, THAT WOULD BE EVEN WORSE FOR MY POOR GIRL!!!😭😭💔💔

[@valentinkambushev4968]

This, alongside Dipper living his dream in Mable's bubble, should have been kept.

[@saviorbob]

Whoops time for new parents

[@raymondthrone7197]

Probably would've made for a strong scene. Emphasizes the theme of losing youthful "magic" as it were.

[@Kittenfox_55]

One thing I never understood about "Mabel ruining Dipper's apprenticeship with Ford" is that the Grunkle Stan their Parents left them with for the Summer is a very different one from the Grunkle that has 12 PHD's.

[@sdbzfan1]

Yea but the ford their parents know does, remember stan faked his death and was excommunicated from the family, their parent would know Ford only

[@yuzmanito]

It's pretty obvious that they think it's the one with 12 phd's. Stanley it's supposed to be "dead" so I what never understand is this confusion.

[@apirlfools]

erm did you watch the show stanley took fords identity they believe ford is the one the kids are staying with

[@TheDuckyDino]

@@yuzmanitoI feel like the only flaw with this is that Stanley talks to them with his normal voice in the Season 1 finale and not Ford’s. Not a game breaker or anything, but still a small plot hole.

[@fandenovelas777]

@@yuzmanito Thing is worse when u see how ends Mc Gucket lit Mabel saved Dipper

[@strangebutfictional4029]

They did hint at the family being chaotic and abusive several times. It’s kind of implied just through the core plot alone that their parents just rushed their kids off to across the country for no reason for an entire summer, that they don’t really communicate a lot, and that despite Grunkle Stan’s pretty blatant labor violations and child endangerment, he’s still very preferred to going back to their family. Dipper and Mabel also act like abused kids, especially Dipper who on multiple occasions is described as conspiratorial, isolated, awkward, anxious, seeking a new role model for no reason at all. If you were also traumatized as a kid you might have spotted it, or the way that Mabel develops an incredibly caring personality while trying to play it off and be casual about it through cutesy childish behaviors, because she sees herself as responsible for protecting Dipper and herself from the harshness of not having supportive parents. She takes his side against bullies even before the summer in Gravity Falls. She leans into cutesy childishness especially when she’s sad, scared, or hurt in some way. It’s a coping mechanism. It’s very obvious and even when the book says he had nightmares, they say “why else would their parents rush them off to a guy they barely know?” BECAUSE it’s so obvious Also the show is so clearly about generational trauma and Fords inability to reconcile with his sibling trickling into their relatives sibling relationship. Like, the whole theme is that this rift (and don’t they literally call the key plot a dimensional rift???) between them causes selfish behaviors and only being kind to each other will fix it.

[@LunaLamperouge]

What I never understood about people getting mad about Dipper's lost apprenticeship with Ford, was that Dipper and Mable BOTH would discover the mysteries of Gravity Falls together since the beginning. Of course, Dipper was more passionate and nerdy about it, but Ford only just got there in the series so he thought only Dipper had an interest in those kinds of adventures, when in fact they were always a team. Ford literally says one of the reasons he wants Dipper to stay with him is that he saw his notes on the journal, and the first note Dipper completed on the journal was the weakness of the Gnomes (which Ford had written had "unknown" before), and that weakness was LITERALLY MABLE WHO FOUND OUT LOL (the leafblower on episode 1), Dipper just wrote what they discover! So I don't get why people get sooo mad Dipper chooses to be with his sister who he does everything with, including the adventures, growing up together, and comeback to Gravity Falls next summer for more mysteries.

[@azraelburton8212]

Also it's not a lost formal apprenticeship spot that can be taken by anyone else. It's a family member who is offering to teach him things. The end of the show is them opening the card and realizing they potentially have more summers to look forward to in gravity falls. If that's they case Stan and Ford have to be there to have someone to watch them for awhile. Dipper has until Ford is in the ground to learn things from him. He doesn't need to leave everything behind at 13 to get that. Dipper is kinda once again in a spot where him "giving something up for Mabel" isn't really giving it up. I think he realized that himself which is why through all his anxious over preparing and desire to be a "grown up" 13 year old boy he was so sure he doesn't want to be away from her because she is a big part of his support system and he is hers as well.

[@apersonthatshere1157]

THIS!! And the fact that Mabel was the real reason they defeated bill the second time he attacked, and she’s the reason they found Mcgucket she’s also the one who solved the mystery about the wax Stan figure because of her knowledge on the figurines. Because she MADE ONE Notice how Mabel’s creativity and ability to look into details better then her brother always helps them out.

[@LeoDBW]

​@@azraelburton8212YES! I remember in the Mabel hate video he said something like "Mabel RUINED his chances to get good studies in a country where education is expensive" and its really stupid when you think about it because 1-it wasn't a one time opportunity, like you said, Ford is family, he can ask again later 2-he's 13, he hasn't even begun high school, I didn't even knew what I wanted to become at the end of high school 3-they can come back EVERY summer, Dipper can learn from Ford while there every year. 4-Gravity Falls isn't going anywhere anyway, even if for some reasons Ford can't teach him anymore, he can come back by himself when he's grown to study. Blaming Mabel for a thing that can easily be fixed was really stupid!

[@yarrowruarie9808]

21:05 not to mention that it’s implied (in the BoB) that Mabel & Dipper’s parents were going through a divorce ,, (( hence the reason why they were sent away for the summer ))) So couple that with everything she had experienced that day, and that not only did she have to leave the best summer of her life ,, but she’d be left alone without her own twin brother while her entire world fell apart.

[@hitbyatank]

32:18 he talks about it

[@raymondthrone7197]

There's no evidence that Mabel knows anything about that. I do find it very funny that people are using what is specifically _Dipper's_ nightmare to justify Mabel's actions, lmao.

[@lifeisadrag7705]

@@raymondthrone7197 What is this argument...? You realize that children are capable of seeing the state of their parent's relationships right regardless of them having their arguments out in the open or not? If their parents were going through a rough-patch, even the most oblivious children will sense and understand that something is wrong. Especially if Dipper expressed his concerns to her or not. It just said he overheard *a* fight his parents were having. *A* fight, that could allude to many more. Him not being supposed to be exposed to it could just mean they mentioned divorce and or it was a really nasty one.

[@1BeautifulDuck]

​@@raymondthrone7197 You're missing the point. The fact that Dipper actively has nightmares about his parents fighting means that they most likely don't have the best relationship. Is it really so bold to assume that if Dipper heard something like that, he'd tell Mabel about it? Smh

[@raymondthrone7197]

@@1BeautifulDuck it is, yeah. Mabel is not shy about her emotions and has no mention of this whatsoever throughout the series. Nor is she plagued by the same nightmares. Occam's razor; if the book wanted to imply that Mabel, rather than Dipper, was uniquely affected by this situation, than it would not have attributed it to Dipper.

[@Nobody-qk4xu]

I've been saying so many times, Dipper desires were often about Wendy, and Mabel's desires were often more important or understandable, like saving Marmando or rescuing Waddles from being abused by Pacifica. Not to mention Dipper summoned zombies and almost killed so many people because he was obsessed with misteries, he's as flawed as Mabel.

[@tootsiepop13]

Also lets not act like Dipper’s obsession with Wendy is any more valid than Mabel’s obsession with wooing boys. They’re the SAME THING.

[@raymondthrone7197]

@@tootsiepop13 Correct. But Dipper gets repeatedly physically harmed, emotionally hurt, and generally punished by the narrative for the actions he takes to woo Wendy. Mabel's worse consequence is not getting together with any of the boys. She even gets a kiss from Mermando! Like, it's very obvious the narrative is kinder to one of these two 12 year olds.

[@vuivraalbastra]

@@raymondthrone7197 Maybe because Mabel rarely and knowingly takes actions as drastic as Dipper, at least when it comes to the supernatural? Dipper creates many copies of himself, rewinds time over and over again, asks a video game character to beat up Robby, summons zombies at a party, makes a deal with Bill etc. (just to be clear, I'm not criticizing Dipper for it, he's a 12 yo old too and it makes sense for his character). Meanwhile Mabel usually (there's some exceptions, like in the golf episode) goes for non-magical solutions to fulfill her selfish desires, which have less of a chance to backfire that badly. And... umm, Mabel gets a kiss from Mermando and then he leaves far away for good, I don't see how that is not a bittersweet experience. Her relationship with Mermando ends there because he returns to his family thanks to her help. It's really weird to argue that she doesn't also gets hurt in many ways, it's not like she doesn't experience as much heartbreak as Dipper or plenty of action during the show. Anyway, in my opinion, we see more consequences to Dipper's actions purely because he is our main point of reference, not Mabel. That demands more screentime for him, which leads to more time to explore the aftermath of his actions. I really don't think it's as deep as the narrative having a favorite character.

[@denises9120]

​@raymondthrone7197 again both characters are *TWELVE YEARS OLD* They are distinct and deal with their experiences differently. Dipper and Mabel are meant to be foils to one another and their experiences in the show reflect that and yes it is frustrating that Mable dose not get the same amount of flack that dipper dose in the show, but dipper is essentially the defacto main character and we follow him more than we do Mable. But the whole show build down to two twelve year Olds and their summer experiences with weirdness. But can you imagine if Dipper and Mable were exactly the same. The show would be boring because there would be no balance between the siblings. Plus a lack of personality.

[@nickbritt1145]

Not to mention that she SAVED DIPPER FROM DYING IN THE GIDEON BOT’S EXPLOSION!!!

[@goodolnoahYT]

I think the dichotomy of Dipper and Mable's choices is actually another symptom of this show just having really great writing and dialogue (most of the time). I remember listening to the commentary tracks from Alex Hirsch and other people on the show. One thing he said about Ford was that he WANTED him to be likable, but it was difficult because the first thing we see him do is punch Stanley in the face. His dialogue at 22:04 is another showing of this. His dialogue was written so it wasn't harsh, but was more positive and very underhandedly manipulative (which I think Ford himself isn't even aware of). Him telling Dipper that he was "meant for something more" is literally him saying "you don't need your sister, you are meant for something great, just like I am!" This statement is directly opposed when Wendy tells Dipper that there's "nothing he and Mable can't do together" when she's motivating him ontop of GF mall. Godddd, there's always something new to find on rewatch.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Especially when you take into account how the two Stans' relationship turned out, it's perfectly understandable why Ford would think that siblings only hold you down. And it's not like he doesn't like Mabel. He even admires her personality.

[@raymondthrone7197]

Ford is absolutely projecting onto Dipper, but there's nothing manipulative in giving straightforward positive reinforcement. Dipper is desperate for anyone who genuinely compliments his abilities, in large part because his family constantly rip on him (Stan, Mabel) and the people who do appreciate him are careful to emphasize he's reliant on working together with his sister (Wendy). Dipper should have the self-confidence that those kinds of compliments shouldn't hit as they do. But he doesn't, because he doesn't actually have anyone who wants him to succeed the way Ford does. It makes a hundred percent sense why Dipper would immediately glom onto the only authority figure that takes him seriously and appreciates what he has to offer with no caveats.

[@NonsensicalTrickster]

I did at one point really dislike Mabel, but it overall was because I found her incredibly annoying. I think it was mostly because I _did_ relate to Dipper and the show does a lot of Dipper-Bullying (How many times does Stan and Mabel gang up on Dipper to make him feel insecure?), where as Mabel didn't really get bullied (by her family/sibling. Pacifica is a different story but she's also supposed to be an antagonist early on) and moreso just had a lot of wild antics. Even though as an adult I can 100% see the reality of episodes like Time Traveler's Pig and Deep End, as a kid I was SO MAD that the character who never got bullied would also end up getting 'what she wanted' out of those situations and once again Dipper was getting the short end of the stick. Mabel is not a bad character, she's a sweetheart and I can see that so much better now that I'm an adult who can actually watch the show and understand the finer details.

[@andreadag]

i agree with you

[@gaslightgatekeepgirlboss6321]

yeah theres a lot of lack of nuance in the discussions here as people either swing too hard on hating on mabel or treating her like a perfect angel who does no wrong. i LOVE mabel, she and really the rest of the pines family are all in my top 5 characters of the show because i think they're all wonderful, but theres one thing i can't really defend her on is how she (and stan) absolutely bully the hell out of dipper and make him feel horrible about himself to the point he actively tries to change himself over it. it becomes an interesting plot point in dungeons, dungeons and more dungeons as it's one of the factors that pushes dipper under ford's influence and got them closer, but in dipper vs manliness and little dipper theyre pretty damn cruel to him. in the former, they at least have a nice scene at the end in the diner where stan tells dipper he IS a man for sticking to his own principles despite what people say, the whole chest hair joke and they're all having a good time. but in little dipper, i remember still being annoyed how mabel got to pick on dipper for being short, reveal its because she's insecure about dipper being better than her at things (which is... kind of out of nowhere? tbh in my opinion dipper was always the more average one between them. mabel has shown to be extremely talented in many things, moreso compared to him) and dipper lets her keep her extra inch. it's obviously not a HUGE deal and is super low on the list of priorities, but it's probably the one and only time i remember being annoyed and staying annoyed at mabel because she never really apologizes for teasing dipper that much. for reference i recently rewatched the show and i still feel that way. but oh well, ONE episode where i dont like mabel out of 40, it's truly not the end of the world and by all means i still think mabel is a great character. i also think she's a lot more mature in ways that actually matter than dipper in all honesty.

[@andreadag]

@@gaslightgatekeepgirlboss6321 you've said my thoughts almost exactly

[@laced_crane]

i think the weirdmaggedon episode shows how much mabel actually loves her brother. she didn’t make stan, wendy, soos, grenda or candy, just dipper. she just wanted dipper and her to spend their lives together. in a way it’s cute but also heartbreaking

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

Do people just not remember what it was like being a child?

[@curehappydx5045]

Appearntly not, it's be perfect or flawless these days. You can't have any faults as a human. No sir

[@dragonoverdrive6859]

​@@curehappydx5045that's so dumb I wished god would give people common sense

[@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel]

I think a lot of the haters were children who wanted to seem more mature by hating on a character that is "less mature"

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

​@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel I think media in general has really encouraged kids to try to act more mature at younger ages, which is kind of sad to me. I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and I was basically Mabel right up until I turned 13 and got my first job at the local video store (and even then, I had my silly moments). Kids *should* be allowed to goofy and chaotic at 12 years old, pretty soon they'll be in high school and have to start taking on more responsibilities. Enjoy being a kid while it lasts!

[@UrMentalHealth]

Adult cartoon fans (some, not all) tend to hate on child characters because they don't act like responsible adults. They also hate on Riley's friends from Inside Out 2 because they're "fake" (aka, kept a secret from Riley because they didn't want to stress her before camp)

[@hasmhas]

Framing the situation as "Mabel not wanting to leave Mabellannd when things are so bad in Gravity falls" is so terribly disingenuous. Mabel had not seen or experienced the current state of Gravity falls. It's so weird to me when people blame characters for not knowing what the audience knows.

[@robertdelossantos5844]

He’s saying Mabel is protecting them from reality, not Weirdmageddon.

[@hasmhas]

@@robertdelossantos5844 I'm not criticising cartoonshi here. He's saying that people are arguing this point and it's a bad point.

[@Koranimorir]

Wendy tried to warn her, and she definitely saw what happened when her guards tried to throw Dipper out the bubble, Mabel knew what happened after she gave Bill the rift.

[@robertdelossantos5844]

@@hasmhas my bad. Misunderstood the argument being made here

[@spectraltala6362]

​@@Koranimoririf she knew what happened after giving "Blendin" the rift then wouldn't she be trying to get out? And didn't the end of the courtroom scene imply she was under a spell?

[@loafary]

the mabel defense squad has come back from his 12 year hiatus. gravity falls really is back. great video, toonshi!

[@MeepMacArthurlll]

Thank God Gravity falls is the greatest show or animated series Disney has made

[@grimtheghastly8878]

"We need more complicated female characters in media!" they couldnt even handle Mable and Pink Diamond/Rose Quartz 💀

[@sailorstar3148]

The things Pink/Rose did I didn’t like when it was revealed that she was Pink diamond,but if you look at her story in reverse her character development is there. Also, since her backstory has some similarities to Lucifer from HazbinHotel basically two young powerful beings that were look down upon for acting childish and rebel against their own home.

[@royalxprincessbaka6875]

People say they want complex female characters but if they are doing anything selfish or morally grey the audience acts like they committed genocide. It's especially noticeable when male characters do worse things and are praised for being complex.

[@SubZero-hs9xc]

Not the same

[@fr0stdr4ke95]

​@@sailorstar3148 Honestly. Rose Quartz may be one of the best written characters in fiction. They literally told her story in reverse, so masterfully, she is even hated by her own son. Greg is more lenient on her than that. But then again, it is possible Greg knew more than anyone except Pearl.

[@grimtheghastly8878]

@@SubZero-hs9xc they aren't the same, but nevertheless they are complicated female (or female coded) characters and people still freaked out over them

[@UnDusted18]

I really hate that CC West video he made about Mabel! But what I hated the most about that video was when he tried to penalize Mabel for trusting Grunkle Stan for opening up Stanford’s portal underneath the mystery shack and calling her a sociopath for not siding with Dipper over superficial reasons! That wasn’t terrible, that was a leap of faith she took for Stan and I will die by that sword!

[@royalxprincessbaka6875]

I feel like even if Mabel did push the button, people would still be mad at her for not trusting Stan after everything he did for her like saving Waddles and for leaving Ford trapped in the portal, preventing the brothers from reunioning. It's damn if you do, damn if you don't when it comes to mabel in the eyes of the fandom.

[@castform7]

You know what the Mabel is a bad person argument reminds me of. The "Mario is a psychopath" Game Theory. I think it is a bit of a stretch but it does have the connecting factor of trying to paint someone who's genuinely an at worst decent person as terrible by cherry picking different instances that make them look bad while also removing context, especially around their relationship with their twin brother. I know there are only 2 seasons of Gravity Falls, but the fact many Mabel detractors will only bring up like 6 episodes while also waving off any additional context as to why she may have done the things she did (along with the fact she's *12)* and any other instance is just a case of mutual sibling teasing is very shakey ground that I am ashamed to admit I bought into for a short while (to be fair to myself I think I was around 2 or 3 years older than Mabel when the hate train was in full swing). I'm just glad we're past that heaping pile of nonsense and in a state where people are clueless about a time Mabel was hated.

[@shinywolf4337]

It’s indeed ironic that in both cases the older twins are the ones who get the most heat and disdain while the younger “underdogs” are showered with love and sympathy. [Mind you, I love both Pines twins and the Mario Bros, but it’s still an interesting coincidence.]

[@manmanthirtysix5117]

I had this exact same comparison when the complaint about Mabel teasing Dipper came up. It reminded me of the entire section of that Mario video where he complains about Mario teasing Luigi. They're siblings. That's what they do.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

The "Mario is a Psychopath" theory happened all because Mario stomped Luigi's foot over a tennis ball game. It's no wonder why most Mario parodies on Newgrounds and KZbin are ruthless to make him an absolute jerk or being a butt of a joke. Parodies is one thing, but taking the theory way too seriously into believing that Mario is just as bad as Bowser is pretty much against what the Mario franchise stands for considering it's lighthearted content (even SMG4, of all people, called the theory out). Luckily, the brotherly dynamic of the Mario Bros. in the _Mario and Luigi_ series and Mario's motive on saving Luigi in _Super Mario Bros. Movie_ pretty much defeats the purpose of the theory.

[@SparklingWithNiGHTS-yv5fe]

It's really sad to see that people think Mabel is a bad character just because she has selfish desires and wishes sometimes. Like,come on guys,just because Mabel has a flawed personality doesn't mean she's a bad character in any means,it means she's human.(literally a cartoon character identical to a real person)

[@liittlemiissd]

No it’s not, never having dipper find out about what really happened to cause the apocalypse is a bad storytelling decision.

[@sdbzfan1]

People confused flawed with terrible all the time, the moment a character isnt perfect not selfish individual they're seen as problematic, anime has this issue all the time, so many mcs are flat uninteresting good boys nows

[@Cartoonshi]

Mabel literally tells him she was tricked into giving Bill the rift in Weirdmageddon Part 2. Actually watch the show before you criticise it.

[@liittlemiissd]

@@Cartoonshi in what scene? Because I have zero memory of any dialogue like that being said.

[@Cartoonshi]

@@liittlemiissd When Dipper, Wendy and Soos meet her in Mabeland. Literally one of the first things she says.

[@pedanticat9479]

Do you know what really bugs me about the Mable hate (beside it being overblown to proportions with her not deserving the hate)? It's that almost 10 years later, people are still holding Weirdmagadeon against her but I don't see the same level of people complain about Marcy selfishly transporting herself, Sasha and Anne to Amphibia or Lillith cursing Eda and essentially ruining her life! I love Mable, Marcy and Lillith with them all being great characters yet it's weird that Mable is the one who gets all the hate (though none of them deserve it)

[@Sean-wv7wl]

This. I feel like out of the 3 Mabel was the only one who got played and shouldn’t take all the heat for weirdmagedon. I always disliked Marcy after we found out because of how bad Anne and Sasha’s situations were before they started getting used to Amphibia. They were stuck in Amphibia for 6 months and I really wished Marcy was confronted about this before the series ended. Yes, she almost died because of it, but so has Anne and Sasha throughout the series I hated Lilith as well, but she took responsibility and eventually faced the consequences for her actions

[@DrawciaGleam02]

I think it's because Marcy and Lilith faced more consequences compared to Mabel? Marcy nearly DIED and was later corrupted by the core. Lilith lost her magic and had to start over in her studies (that doesn't even mention her constant appeals to Belos to help cure Eda's curse).

[@RancorSnp]

Mable pulls of something horrific every 3 episodes or so, weirdmagedon is just one scenario. (Although the fact that she caused the weirdmagedon, and then upon learning that if she doesn't agree to help everyone will die - she still didn't want to actually deal with it doesn't help)

[@raymondthrone7197]

It really is just about narrative consequence. Mabel's bad decisions never seem to result in any negative consequence for her, personally.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

@@Sean-wv7wl Oh yeah. Sasha had it the worst! Literally in jail! Anne was a walk in the park compared to THAT. But I think that's because the toads and frogs are less open-minded compared to the newts. At least that's my headcannon. I know they said the three species had issues with getting along, but that seemed to only be mainly shown with the toads and frogs.....

[@abcpumpkinz9251]

Since people loved to use Mabel causing Weirdmageddon as an argument, I'd say it's equally as important if not more important to acknowledge that if it hadn't been for her, the Shack wouldn't have been protected, and they wouldn't have been able to defeat Bill.

[@oranjaglad8648]

So pretty much a butterfly effect

[@Im2lazy4thisCrit]

While admittedly, they wouldn’t have been in that situation if Mabel giving Bill the rift didn’t happen, you’re right. The Mystery Shack being protected by the Unicorn Hair is a key moment that ends up being part of the reason they win in the end, so props to Mabel, and Wendy, Candy, and Grenda.

[@jjhjhhhlkhdfkkhs]

@@Im2lazy4thisCrit true but also neither would they have been in that situation if stanford didn't agree to build a portal to a nightmare world, or wasnt such a vain bitch that he refused to destroy the schematics for said portal because "muh research" so how tf is mabel the one getting flak for causing this.

[@Bdon-tf2]

It took me a sec to realize why Cee Cee treated Mable like she was more MATURE than she really was I can’t put my finger on what MINOR detail it was

[@andrewmichael9201]

Honestly Mabel breaking free from the Weirdmagedon bubble is probably the biggest point that she isn’t selfish. After having one of the hardest days of her life she’s given a small corner of reality where she’s free to do whatever she wants with no consequence. I probably wouldn’t be able to escape from that type of prison no matter who tried to get me out, so the fact she was able to shows an immense amount of love for her family and a level of selflessness that I genuinely admire. Girl basically denied heaven for her brother.

[@mentacose]

This is a great point!!! And I've honestly always been impressed with how mature she could be sometimes, especially for her age. She's never vindictive, not even to her rivals. It takes a lot of grace to deal with someone like Pacifica and not hate her.

[@raymondthrone7197]

I generally don't think you should be lauded for fixing the mistakes you caused. Mabel breaking out of the bubble would be more of a point in her favor if it didn't require extreme effort from her brother to get her to that point, on top of him making yet another sacrifice for her sake, and followed by no real acceptance of blame or real consequence for being one of the key components to starting Weirdmageddon in the first place.

[@hadrianhexe9603]

@@raymondthrone7197 The point is the vast majority of people would have not made it out PERIOD, no matter how much effort someone else put in.

[@lsebastian9086]

@@mentacose That point i think couldbe shown at the way they handled Pacifica before she changed sides. Mabel did not want to pursue revenge when finding out the secrets about the Northwest, but DIpper was the one who did it anyways Mabel did nto want to cheat to defeat her but Dipper was the one insisting more on that

[@vickypedia1308]

​@@raymondthrone7197 I find her causing Weirdmageddon to be a poor argument. The narrative makes it very clear that her giving the rift to Bill is a direct consequence of Ford and Dipper not trusting her enough to tell her how important it is. She would have never done that if she was just told what the thing was. Weirdmageddon is largely Ford's fault, not only for summoning Bill in the past, but also for not getting over his trust issues in the present and telling his family the truth about the rift. That's the one flaw that causes this whole mess, and the one flaw he takes until the last episode to overcome. Him finally trusting his family, especially Stan, is what leads to Bill's defeat, after his lack of trust led to Bill's rise to power.

[@ryanleatigaga7596]

I hate Mabel because she ate all of my cattle, including my prized Bessie, atop her wicked hog. I have sworn to get revenge ever since.

[@YoniAber-k7x]

I can’t tell if your joking or not

[@Noebody6970]

​@@YoniAber-k7x they did steal a radioactive 8 legged cow from that guy before

[@valentinkambushev4968]

​@@Noebody6970 and a very dangerous one.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

"Did she actually do it?" "No, BUT WILL WE WAIT UNTIL SHE DOES?!?" "NO!" *Riot begins*

[@danielquinlan2457]

She burned our crop, poisoned our water supply, and delivered a plague unto our houses!

[@glimmerstantroop46321]

God forbid a child character be a child. Like, I'm not saying Mabel was perfect or anything, but the amount of hate she got is just comically insane

[@MutatedPercent]

The fact they kept comparing her to Dipper because apparently if one kid can be kinda mature once in a while it must mean all of them should be able to or something. Nevermind that Mabel's biggest fear was growing up while Dipper literally couldn't wait to do so.

[@8onnie8oyz]

​@@MutatedPercent I hope those people didn't become parents who compared their children to others.

[@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel]

@@MutatedPercent Honestly dipper wasn't always more mature dipper was maybe academically smarter but Mabel is A lot socially smarter and kinder

[@AstronomicalJelly]

people in general can't handle child/teen characters, if they do something that reflects their non fully developed mindset people will attack them so much because how dare they not have the same emotional maturity and rationality as a full grown adult

[@laraprisma6381]

@@MutatedPercent Yeah, it gets to the point where it almost seems motivated by misogyny. Seriously, all the Pines have done selfish and bad things, but for SOME reason the only GIRL among them is the most hated??? Yeah, I call misogyny on that! Also, I'm not saying that everyone who hates her is misogenous, but that it's very bizarre that the other Pines don't receive as much hate or criticism as she does.

[@thespaceofades2734]

The "Mabel hesitated during Sock Opera" argument becomes even dumber when you remember how Dipper acted in Summerween.

[@railenherman6482]

I don’t think people who rag on Mabel for teasing Dipper have ever had siblings before. I have two brothers, and we tease each other all the time. Also, Mabel is *12 YEARS OLD.* Of course she would tease Dipper. Hell, she even says she feels bad about it.

[@cloudlion1610]

Hit the nail on the head

[@geministrial950]

People don't realize that siblings teasing eachother is actually fundamental to their development. It's a studied phenomenon that single children (idk what the plural word for only child is) are significantly more socially stunted than children with siblings

[@ፔ̇̈]

@@geministrial950Tell me you’re an older sibling without telling me you’re an older sibling… 😒

[@nullakjg767]

we literally never see dipper do it back to her tho. he never goes out of his way to try and humiliate her in front of her crushes, he even sacrifices his job for her lol. its just such a 1 sided relationship.

[@daniboy4153]

​@@nullakjg767 A job He took to get with a girl who doesn't like him and is too old for him, aka his crush.

[@alexey635able]

I’m honestly surprised someone hated her to begin with. People really missed the point of her character

[@handhelder823]

@@alexey635able i was young once which is why i used to hate her. I have changed into a different person now and understand Mable

[@PitofTrogness]

a clear-up about God of Love according to Journal 3 (which contains notes from Dipper and Mabel about things from the episodes), it is revealed that the love potion only works for a few hours, which means that Robbie and Tambry did genuinely feel something for each other though i personally believe that Robbie shouldn't have gotten a happy ending: you have to be either very miserable or very insecure about yourself if you think a fucking 12 year old has a chance to steal your girlfriend

[@vickypedia1308]

The journal 3 thing feels like a retcon to fix what was a messed up ending the writers only noticed in retrospect

[@PitofTrogness]

@@vickypedia1308 oh yeah for sure

[@ThatKidWhoGotBored]

Frrr Robbie had beef with a kid half his size who worked in the same place his girlfriend did. Like bro was ready to throw hands in that one episode lol. Even before Robbie and Wendy started dating he still was cruel to Dipper.

[@randot6675]

​​@@ThatKidWhoGotBoredThe whole point of Robbie's character was that he was supposed to be an edgy, insecure teenage loser projecting onto a literal kid. He may have seemed "ready to throw hands" with a 12 year old, but do remember that when it came down to it, instead of beating up Dipper with his skinny lanky teenage hands, he just storms off and says that the whole thing was stupid. It was a game of chicken from the very start, which ties up Dipper summoning Rumble nicely, showing how dumb and pointless resorting to fisticuffs really is

[@zombies4evadude24]

Honestly it's such a dumb retcon though. If that was originally planned to be true they would have mentioned that in the actual episode and hence improve the ending. In fact, that revelation makes the entire climax of the episode pointless.

[@LadyMajolish]

they can never make me hate you, Mabel, she is just likes me fr ✨🌈

[@platinumg.8614]

All my homies like Mabel. 🙏 In retrospect I probably should identify a lot with her lol.

[@raymondthrone7197]

I don't think it's great to see your current self in a 12 year old child

[@vuivraalbastra]

@@raymondthrone7197 I don't think they mean that exactly, you can still have many of Mabel's traits as an adult - being creative, expressive, extroverted, stylish etc. - and there's nothing wrong with that since most of them are not tied to immaturity.

[@mitaliroy4371]

if i even want to hate her i cant😇

[@geministrial950]

SHE'S JUST LIKE ME FR

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

When Dipper & Mabel vs the Future had just aired, I saw various posts on Tumblr in which people blamed Mabel for Weirdmageddon, but then others blamed _Dipper_ for Weirdmageddon, and others even blamed Ford. In response to all that, I always said to blame *BILL CIPHER.* It was _Bill_ who tricked Mabel into giving him the rift, and it was _Bill_ who knew that Mabel hadn't been told about the importance of the rift. I knew from the get-go that Mabel is not to blame just because she gave up the rift when the rift should not be released from its globe, or that Dipper is not to blame for not telling Mabel about it, or that Ford is not to blame for not trusting anyone but Dipper about the rift. Bill simply saw all these factors, and _took advantage of it_ when one of them was at their most vulnerable.

[@Im2lazy4thisCrit]

People blaming Dipper, Mable, Ford, or anyone else for Weirdmageddon instead of Bill is the same way I felt towards Luz in The Owl House. Like girl, if you don’t stop blaming yourself and blame BELOS. Her teaching him magic centuries ago does NOT justify him being literal pure evil. This is a man who eats the souls of animals, killed his brother, and made various inhabitants of the Boiling Isles lives hell (Eda, Hunter) just because he was racist towards witches. The idea that Luz is responsible for all that is ridiculous.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

It's strange that the heroes are always blamed for the conflict that the villains made, even if they tried to do the right thing, rather than blaming the villain for the doing the obvious.

[@nadiayoung8765]

people calling mabel selfish is crazy when ford is RIGHT THERE

[@jjhjhhhlkhdfkkhs]

for real, he could have literally destroyed the schematics for his portal to what's pretty much the cartoon version of hell and how to operate it but chose not to, even actively stopping stan from doing so, all because "muh research".

[@koshavinka2995]

*He's* selfish, Nadia? How can you say that after costing him *his dream school!*

[@samaraoliveira3400]

@@koshavinka2995 this made me laugh way harder than it should have

[@DaiizR]

Exactly!!! Stan deserved better

[@alysssabear]

Fr fr! I never liked Ford, and it’s always baffling to me how not ONE person in the fandom has called him out on his terrible behavior. But sure, let’s make Mabel, a 12 year old kid, the fandom’s punching bag.

[@thewingedunicorn5065]

Im so mad at myself for actually believing that CC West video at one point in time. I luckily grew out of the mindset, especially when I started watching the show in its entirety again. And all I saw throughout watching was two KIDS who still have plenty of room to grow which is obvious because they BOTH flawed but also great siblings. If anything, even tho I love both Dipper and Mabel equally, I grew to realize I was a lot like Mabel when I was younger. All I wanted was to just stay with my brother because he is honestly my best friend ever. And the thought of growing up, while I don't show it a lot, scares me. And when my brother started to have his own interests, we sort of drift a part a bit. We're still close obviously, but nowhere near like we used to and I missed that. Mabel is just so me coded, and Im mad at myself for not seeing that before.

[@jaceladag]

We often hate what reminds us the most of ourselves, looking into the mirror is harder than you'd think

[@DrawciaGleam02]

I think those vids held up for so long because they had ideas people found interesting? The dude literally rewrote the Pink Diamond twist in one video, and within his SU movie review he proposed that after Pearl got reset she imprints on a different character as her "new owner".

[@amethystimagination3332]

It really was the Lily Orchard’s “Steven Universe is Garbage” video of the Gravity Falls fandom.

[@XD-yn6hb]

I thought I was a Dipper but not I know I’m a Mabel.

[@mentacose]

@@jaceladag True that

[@JazzSicaa]

I love how a female character can do one little mistake and be hated by almost an entire fandom, but when a male character does the worst things possible and is legit a terrible person people will praise him and call him a incredible and complex character. Also, fuck Robbie.

[@carpiim]

right!!! i kinda wish more people talked about this point because hmmmm isnt it interesting how shes the ONLY major female character in the show and also the ONLY girl in the pines quartet and coincidently the ONLY ONE who gets this kind of hate??? when the other 3 pines have done things from similar stature (dipper) to: Literally stanleys crime list, and all the morally dubious things ford has done??? like... it really reeks of misogyny

[@upsidedownworld8184]

There's a difference between hating a character for ONE mistake, and hating a character because of the show and over defender's refusal to acknowledge those mistakes and the impact of those mistakes. Peggy Hill is character that comes in mind. And she's a character that did WAY too many mistakes. I get that it makes her compelling, funny, kickstarts the plot and without her antics the show would be boring. And again, I don't think Peggy is also terribly written. There's also episodes where I like her a lot. But the hate that surrounds her is that her actions are barely given comeuppance by the show and writers. Not even a little bit. And this lack of acknowledgement of Mabel's mistake is even noticed by Alex Hirsch to the point of the comic where Mabel is forced to confront the darker side of herself and got a taste of the antics Dipper had to deal with sometimes. I don't doubt some Mabel hate is rooted in hatred for female characters. But don't dismiss those who were genuinely upset that Mabel didn't get a little backlash from her actions. Dipper is also a kid who made mistakes, but because he consistently gets called out for these bad behaviors and he DOES grow as a person, people tend to be more forgiving. Also, if female characters are constantly criticized for ONE mistake, then why is Arcane praised for having complex female characters who made mistakes. Vi and Jink especially. Why is Amity so beloved despite having done MANY awful things to willow. Simple, because the show acknowledged her mistake and gave her time to redeem herself. And yes, they used the typical parents are at fault trope. But Amity only uses it as a reason, not an excuse. This is proven when Amity clarified that it wasn't Willow who was weak, but Amity is weak to be Willow's friend. Fully taken responsibility in the bullying.

[@dx.feelgood5825]

@@carpiim tbf ford also got a LOT of hate. the fandom was ripped in half over people arguing whether or not he was a good character, if he was secretly evil, and so on. He and Mabel were the most overhated characters for a long while. There just wasn't enough content on him to make an entire video essay at the peak.

[@oranjaglad8648]

Literally the Sonic fandom (seriously, the hate for Amy is actually insane, meanwhile Evil Sonic from the Archie comics becomes a fan favorite even though he’s genuinely deplorable).

[@curehappydx5045]

@@oranjaglad8648 Amy is most because of how she was Written in Frontiers or people basically hated her past self and wanted another blaze the cat from her to that i must say why?

[@SheppyNano]

Bro I didnt even know about what happened to CCWest after that Mabel video xD Dang Im honestly glad theres some Mabel protection going on.

[@MeepMacArthurlll]

Pretty sure the guy just tried to delete everything connected to him

[@pooxel]

Bill was so good at manipulating that he manipulated the audience

[@FuzzySumasshu]

Oh right, two more important factors about Weirdmageddon. 1, Bill is an immortal being who is *always watching* and 2, he possessed a time traveler. This means that he waited until he found when the rift was at its most vulnerable, then, possessing Blendin, he could go to that exact point in time to take advantage of it. Also where are the Blendin detractors? He made a deal with Bill at some point and then when faced with the consequences he just flees.

[@dx.feelgood5825]

AND we learn that Time Baby has been in a war against Bill for millennia. Why the hell would Blendin even take a deal from him, knowing his BOSS wants the guy dead???

[@Quackervoltz]

Fuck Blendin all my homies hate Blendin

[@xanderg.1070]

I also want to add to Dipper taking Ford’s apprenticeship, if Dipper did take it, I don’t think it would go well and would kinda be a similar situation with Rick and Morty. While that might be a weird comparison, if you really think about, Rick and Morty is a good example of why Dipper shouldn’t stay with Ford. While Ford isn’t verbally, mentally, or emotionally abusive towards Dipper, I can see him trying to push Dipper away from having his own path, and isolating himself from his family and friends just so Ford can always be with him by his side whether Dipper wants to or not, whether intentionally or not. And this could really mess up Dipper mentally, emotionally, socially, and even physically as he is going on these dangerous missions despite being 12-13. In Rick and Morty, this dynamic shows how it could turn out. Where unlike Ford, Rick does verbally, mentally, and emotionally abuses Morty, but in a similar way like Ford, there are countless of times where Rick would keep Morty by his side where it becomes to the point that Morty would end up clinging onto Rick regardless, because Rick would often purposely isolate Morty. And because of that Morty has to deal with his teenage years going on numerous missions were he could have been or was killed, dealt with a lot of heavy things that is damaging his mental health, and whenever he does have a chance to socialize with his peers, he would have to sacrifice all of that just to help Rick. And keep in mind that Morty is also 14 years old. And Ford and Rick like to isolate themselves from their respective families. And they are definitely not good caregivers. Now I’m not trying to make Ford look like a bad guy, cuz I do like him, and unlike Rick, by the end of the show Ford, realizes that Dipper relationship with Mabel is different from his relationship with Stan, and while I wish he could have seen it, I think after defeating Bill he would want Dipper to go back home with Mabel.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Ford would have been abusive in a different way than Rick. I call it "positivity" abuse.

[@zombehattack666]

There’s so many parts of Mabel that remind me of my younger sibling, I could never hate her. She’s just a silly little creature.

[@NinnyPrinny]

Exactly!

[@cedrolenon]

Mable pines: A caring 12 year old girl will has a still care about her brother and has her flaws and strength Lincoln loud in the live action or even series : *I'm about to ruin my family holiday cause they don't want to sled with me*

[@oranjaglad8648]

Meanwhile Lincoln’s sisters get hate just for having sibling rivalry with their brother…

[@celestinebuendia]

I’m SO certain all the Mabel hate is due to the overprojection onto Dipper, believing, “He’s the main character, and what he wants is the only thing that matters. All Mabel cares about is stupid girly stuff, and I only want the mystery. If I were Dipper, and I had to help Mabel, I’d be annoyed.” and EVERYTHING they say hyperfocuses on details that they think make Mabel look bad, which are either mistakes due to flaws which every character makes, or completely made up misreads of the text. People react with a knee-jerk reaction of annoyance because they don’t believe the main idea of the show that what Mabel wants and feels matters just as much as Dipper, because they are both main characters. I swear one watch of the Gravity Falls director’s commentaries by Alex Hirsch can clear this up. He makes his intentions so clear that the twins are essential to each other and have flaws that balance each other out. People’s entire CHARACTERIZATION of Mabel is even completely off in their heads, because Alex describes how Mabel’s greatest character trait is her heart, how she cares so much about the people around her, and it’s a trait made so clear in the show, with her every action, but STILL somehow people act like everything she does is for herself. Alex even talks about how both Mabel and Dipper would never make a deal with Bill without being lied to AND in complete distress, how they had to manufacture extreme scenarios to make it even plausible for them. Overall, it’s just insane how much people have warped their view of the show around their hate.

[@DecoderWalrus]

People will complain about a character being a Mary Sue but they also complain when a character shows any sign of humanity.

[@geministrial950]

You just can't win with idiots online

[@oranjaglad8648]

@@geministrial950 I blame them for killing media literacy

[@sharkbyte1565]

the thing about fords apprenticeship is that in the episode commentary alex heirsch says that originally there was supposed to be a scene in mabel land where dipper and ford go on adventures and it shows him what it wouldve been like and he realizes how terrible it wouldve been for him as again "he wouldve ended up as a weirdo hermit with no friends" however this was cut for 2 reasons 1. they didnt think mabel land would show him the bad side of things and 2. time contraints

[@donovan802]

I’d like to build off of the Dipper and Mabel Vs the Future discussion, let’s be honest - I doubt Dipper’s apprenticeship was gonna happen even if Mabel was okay with it. Those 12 PHDs Ford has likely weren’t gonna be enough since (A) not only do I think Ford had virtually no time between his return to Earth and Weirdmageddon to understand how much the world has changed in the past 30 years, but (B) in reality, having 12 PhDs wouldn’t be a substitute for the entirety of a traditional education. Those are highly specialized degrees focusing on a very specific areas of expertise, while traditional schooling provides a broad foundation across various subjects. Now I bring this up since I’m pretty sure most of us were in that same thought process Dipper was when Ford offered this opportunity - being able to bypass the classes we didn’t feel like we needed because we were so sure of what we wanted to do and, therefore, needed education strictly on that. And to anyone who stuck with that mentality at a very young age and ended up doing stuff they enjoy, good for you and I sincerely hope you’re all living your best lives! 😁👍 I relate to that feeling all too well, but for someone like Dipper at the age he was, skipping formal schooling to focus entirely on advanced, specialized research might mean missing out on general knowledge and life skills learned in school, as arduous as it can be. Things such as socialization, critical thinking in various disciplines, and a well-rounded education in areas that he’ll probably still need even if they do not correlate all too much with his focuses. Also, I almost completely missed this part - do Dipper and Mabel’s parents even know Ford exists?! I know Mabel was preparing a letter in “Dungeons, Dungeons, & More Dungeons” discussing the entirety of “Not What He Seems,” but did she ever send that letter out? If not, how content would they be with a blood relative they had no clue about staying with Dipper? Nothing majorly against Ford, but unless the relationship issues between the parents was so brutal that they didn’t care, I am not sure how comfortable they’d be with it.

[@dx.feelgood5825]

Yes, they know he exists. He's who they believe Stanley is, as Stanley faked his death and took on Ford's identity. They believe they're with him which is.. well true in the last quarter of the show technically

[@kaylaHat]

Maybe the real terrible person was the triangle we made a deal with along the way...

[@lsebastian9086]

Yep. For all the charms Bill Cipher was a monster

[@sailorstar3148]

He is a master manipulator and Gaslighter, and that’s the most terrifying part of a villain

[@sailorstar3148]

He reminds me of HIM from the Powerpuff Girls I know that he gets overshadow by evil green face monkey, but I think him is the best villain in the Powerpuff Girls because how he tortures people are psychological instead of physical.

[@Im2lazy4thisCrit]

Hmm, maybe… but never mind all that.

[@ShadowedOne]

He gaslighted real world people into hating Mabel.

[@choryllis6646]

"Mable always makes fun of Dipper! She's a bad person!!!!" Tell me you're a single child without telling me. Seriously, ask any siblings how accurate it is, and they'll tell you Mable and Dippers siblinghood is angelic. It gets SO MUCH worse with real siblings lol. I say this as an older sister who considers her younger sister her best friend.

[@AdaminTranzit]

facts lmao as someone who was abused by my brother, I WISH me and him were like dipper and mabel, they are as perfect as siblings can get

[@atotalfiasco4213]

"The song and dance he's giving to Dipper is the exact song and dance that he gave McGucket" my god that was bone-chilling

[@nickbritt1145]

@@atotalfiasco4213 People forget Ford is the reason McGucket is a mess. He inadvertently ruined McGucket’s life. Who’s to say that Ford wouldn’t make the same mistake with Dipper?

[@bluewolf6323]

​@@nickbritt1145 McGucket literally saw something horrific and Ford came over not to help him up or ask what's wrong or see if he's alright, no, he goes over and plainly asks, what did you see?! And then when McGucket is clearly freaking out, Ford says "My research!! I need my precious research!" He cared more about his research and plans than his best friends well being! What's to say he won't do the same thing for Dipper? Hell, the alien episode shows that, Ford was more willing to take a 12 yr old on a dangerous mission to show how Ford does his thing. Dipper could've died multiple times but Ford says "Well buck up Dipper, this is hero work!! We don't have time for feelings and thinking about danger! Head first into danger!!" Dipper could almost die multiple times and Ford would just Yes man it over and over again.

[@HotelKatz]

@@bluewolf6323 Neat. You just argued that an unchecked Ford would wind up being like Dr. Jonas Venture Sr from The Venture Brothers. Not sure if that was your intention or not, but it's pretty neat.

[@sailorstar3148]

@@nickbritt1145 Also take to account that you can’t separate siblings like that and how would their parents will think about a relative that they don’t really know taking one of their kids to be his apprentice. Like if I were Dipper and Mabel’s parent, I wouldn’t care if Ford could give Dipper a “ great education” he is still growing up with his sister.

[@TheDigitalApple]

Reminder guys, Mabel totally isn’t holding Cartoonshi hostage in the Mystery Shacks cellar, and is instead safely in his home…..playing….Yakuza or something.

[@BlueJourney2719]

OR IS SHE?

[@Chōshinsei2006]

Your guys' Humor is awesome 😂

[@LadyMajolish]

And definitely won’t ended up like the unicorns that Mabel solo’d with her bare fist in that episode ✨🥺👊

[@MCCUBED]

*Thanks for watching this thing that I made*

[@alimations5226]

Of course not, it's Lebam.

[@momoko6917]

When people talk about the time travel episode they always talk about how Mabel was being selfish but in reality Dipper was the one being dumb and selfish The fact that if Dipper won the stuffed animal for Wendy or not was at the end of the day insignificant because she wasn't going to hate him more for accidentally hitting her or giving him a chance to be with her just because he gave her that stuffed animal,Dipper was trying to win over a person who doesn't even consider him as an option by cheating (Also that he was trying to get Wendy away from Robbie WHO IS HER BOYFRIEND) Mabel won waddles fairly , Dipper tried to win Wendy over by cheating.

[@ravindupadmanath2802]

A lot of the "criticisms" towards Mabel really can just be stemed from people not understanding the differences between a *character flaw* and a *flaw in the character* Mable is a very bubbly, happy, social butterfly who wants to enjoy the summer, whether it's with her friends, Dipper, or others. Her flaw is that she doesn't want to grow up that fast, and that obviously comes to bite her. But that's not her being poorly written. that's just an aspect of her character in gravity falls. Obviously, there can be instances where she can be a bit selfish. But to take those small instances and generalize her whole character to be selfish brat that doesn't get the consequences just shows people pushing their own ideologies of "well i would never do that, therefore this character was poorly written" and just completely miss the point.

[@poo8870]

Dipper: Messes with the timeline to get good aim at a carnival game so that he could get Wendy a plush doll and avoid Robbie comforting her. Fans: Aw he’s such a precious boi. Mabel: Wants to mess with the timeline to rescue her pig who was getting kidnapped by her rival. Fans: OMG SHE IS SO SELFISH!!!

[@Theokal3]

If it can make you feel better, I agree with you and the "Mabel is Terrible" Essay from CC West made me facepalm. Like yeah, Mabel *does* have flaws and moments of being selfish every now and then that make her, but he made it sound like she was a complete sociopath, and I remember being like.... *what* ?! Personally the part that baffled me the most was when he said it was her fault Gideon almost murdered Dipper because she should have told him she wanted to break up herself. Putting aside the fact she was obviously distraught and Dipper was the one who offered to go for her out of kindness, HOW WAS SHE SUPPOSED TO KNOW GIDEON HAD SUPERPOWERS AND WOULD BE MURDEROUS?! Sure, he *was* behaving creepily, but that didn't automatically translate to him being a psycho who kills people on a whim! ... Also HOLY SHIT, that guy was a *predator* ?! My opinion of him just moved from baffled to disgusted. I think the reason people are so hard on Mabel is because the narrative DOES insist she is a saint and the kindest person ever, which people perceive as shilling and thus this leads them to look for flaws to contradict this. Also, we generally live in a weird period of moral absolutism where people tend to declare every character the worst person ever if they display even the slightest negative traits.

[@shinywolf4337]

Honestly blaming Mabel for the whole Gideon fiasco is a horrible and twisted statement. The poor girl had been literally peer pressured by everyone around her into staying in a situation that was clearly extremely uncomfortable and from which she had no clear way out, which is something that Dipper noticed. As the good brother he is, Dipper offered to help her get out of that situation, and that’s both admirable and a clear proof of how much he cares about his sister. But of course, I’m not surprised that a predator puts all the blame on the victim.

[@Theokal3]

@@shinywolf4337 Yeah it kinda disgusts me that one would try to twist this into a bad moment for Mabel when for me it's one of the many heartwarming moments of the twins being close to one another.

[@oranjaglad8648]

CC West is eerily similar to Lily Orchard tbh

[@DreamersOfReality]

There really are people who see actually good people, and feel the overwhelming urge to paint them as disgusting monsters. They need to have their worldview confirmed that people are intrinsically evil at every opportunity, and it's SICKENING. They don't want to do better, so nobody can. How childish.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

​@@shinywolf4337 Honestly, CC West blaming on Mabel for being peer pressured into dating with a literal psycho kid who also attempted to kill her brother feels like a foreshadowing to what CC ends up now. Very poetic.

[@matthewkarim5919]

1:16 OMG!!! THATS MY COMMENT RIGHT THERE!! Thanks for using one of my comments Cartoonshi! That genuinely made my day!

[@mr.j3rs3y]

Congrats dude ❤

[@topcat59]

Honestly when it comes to her causing weird mageddon I give her a lot more leeway, since one she’s a kid and two she was tricked by Bill when she was emotionally vulnerable.🐱

[@Reactioneer17]

And the worst part about this criticism is that literally EVERYONE gets tricked by bill

[@LadyMajolish]

⁠​⁠@@Reactioneer17yeah including Ford and Dipper, but somehow they get a pass and Mable gets in trouble for it, *Signs* 🤦‍♀️

[@Im2lazy4thisCrit]

There’s also the important part Cartoonshi said about Ford not telling anyone about the rift, meaning she couldn’t know its importance.

[@simsgirlgem]

Three no one told her About the rift guarantee if they told her she have never given it to bill

[@lifeisadrag7705]

She knew absolutely nothing about the Rift too, if Ford had let Dipper tell Mabel about it, it wouldn't have happened. Bill disguising himself as Blendin was smart, especially when Bill downplayed how important the time rift truely was. He tricked Ford, he tricked Dipper, and Mabel had fallen suit due to feeling vulnerable.

[@satsujin-shathewitchkingof6185]

I've always identified more with Dipper so there definitely were some episodes where Mabel could be annoying but there are also episodes where Dipper frustrated me to watch (like,just go enjoy Summerween dude!). Mabel is ultimately still charming and loveable

[@Mushpire]

Man, that CC West fellow sure is treating a literal child as if they were practically an adult.... hopefully he doesn't treat real kids the same way ...

[@katofthestars]

I watched Gravity Falls for the very first time this year. My brother had already seen it so I figured I should check it out too. I was already aware of the hate against Mabel but I didn't pay it any mind because my brother never complained about her. So I binged the show with him. And on the very first episode, Mabel became my favorite character. I liked her a lot and eventually after nearly every episode, I'd turn to my brother and say: “Why does everyone hate Mabel? I don't understand, I love her!” I related to her a lot in Dipper and Mabel vs the Future cuz when I was 12, I too was terrified of growing up. Days before my 13th birthday, I remember calling my dad and telling him I didn't want to turn 13 cuz it was a year closer to death. Mabel is such a wonderful character to me that I was baffled at how anyone could hate her. Thanks to this video I now see why. Fuck CC West

[@kingbash6466]

All my homies don't fuck with Mabel haters.

[@pixel4tedd]

so true man

[@xaviidk]

He said the f-word! S&P SEND HIM TO THE DISNEY VAULT!

[@MrParadox44]

@@xaviidk It’s the mickey mouse jail house, come inside you did a crime.

[@michaelstrong5383]

@@xaviidk "Not S&P approved!"

[@Quackervoltz]

They all sound like Celestebeth

[@josiahtheawkward6008]

12:18 This reminds me of a quote from Alex about Mabel’s relationship with Dipper. I’m paraphrasing but it all means the same. Whenever Dipper tries to act too mature for his age, Mabel is always there to bring home down a peg. Not in a teasing way but it’s to show Dipper and the audience not to get too caught up in growing up to fast and enjoy the moments you have as kids. Whenever they are playing around and dumb stuff as kids, Mabel doesn’t bother him at ALL. And that’s consistent throughout the whole show. It’s only when Dipper tries to grow up too fast or obsess over mysteries or his crush with Wendy, that she gets in his way and tells him to relax, dude.

[@AverageInternetButterfly]

If only time travel were real because I'd take your video and go back in time to that 'Mabel is Terrible' video to get CC West off the menu. That's right. I'd go BACK IN TIME TO THAT 'MABEL IS TERRIBLE' VIDEO TO GET CC WEST OFF THE MENU

[@Im2lazy4thisCrit]

Boys, we’re going back in time to get ‘Mable is Terrible’ off the Menu

[@sponglebonglepringleboble]

THATS RIGHT. Boys, were going back in time to get “Mabel is Terrible” off the menu.

[@F1areon]

FREE BIRDS MENTIONED

[@Tophatguy4422]

Idk know what that means but I agree with you

[@annaleatoria9287]

If Mabel was a boy she would be everyone's fav character, and people would literally make things up to excuse her behavior like they do to Dipper. (I love dipper, but people do look away from his mistakes while they exagerate mabel's)

[@digitalblowfly]

exactly!!

[@charlesbbel2404]

With Dipper getting 10x more hate than his sister ever did for being "an annoying uptight stick in the mud who only forces her sister to grow up" if he was a girl

[@LunacyFringe]

bill was literally able to trick a rly smart grown ADULT MAN and ppl are out here blaming mabel for also being tricked even though she was an emotionally vunerable 12 year old girl

[@cosmicspacething3474]

9:28 Side note, I really like the composition of this scene and how Mabel is literally the only bright colored thing in the whole room. And the brief reveal of the broken heart on Robbie’s clothes.

[@spoingelerboib]

One crtitsizm i still wont understand is the one of mabel teasing dipper, while yes it is very frequent, its clear the things she is saying is more meant to be playful and not serious at all and is clearly just her messing with him cause thats obviously very normal with siblings espacially at their age. And if im being honest dipper is far more mean when it comes to what he says to others, not just mabel. Obviously dipper is written to be a bit of a smartass because thats part of who he is but whenever he teases or insults others hes always a lot more dismissive and rude, and yes while it is funny and clearly not meant to be taken seriously, it shows hes a lot more willing to speak his mind, whearas mabel usually bottles up her emotions to make others happy until it ends up with her spilling it out even if she didnt want to. Like for example when dipper tells pacifica off and slams the door on her in the northwest mansion mystery episode (while yes it is deserved) he could have easily just declined her request and closed the door, but he didnt. The only people dipper usually makes an absolute effort to be nice to and please is wendy, mostly because she is his crush and she also hangs out with the older kids who he also wants to hang out with and be a part of. (This wasnt to say dipper is a bad character and he is actually my favorite but i felt like it was important)

[@geministrial950]

I'm starting to think the people who hate Mabel are single children who just don't understand what it's like to have siblings

[@spoingelerboib]

@geministrial950 honestly playful teasing isn't even just a sibling thing, friend groups do it all the time to each other lol

[@ajohnymous5699]

It's wild for me to hear Mabel caught this much flak. I watched this with my siblings and we loved Mabel, but we all thought Dipper was kind of whack. Man was looking for cryptids, found some, kept putting friends in danger, demanding people take him seriously, put the gang in more trouble than not, kept ditching his sister to go flirt with a girl who will never be interested in him, HAD CHEMISTRY WITH PACIFICA AND NEVER SHOT HIS SHOT! But we still thought he was cool for an obvious loser type character. Honestly the only characters we hated were Robbie and Lil Gideon. Gideon was written well, Robbie is just teenage cringe and a speed bump between Dipper and Wendy.

[@Endless_pain_therealone]

Who's bad A girl who realeased bill A old man who's the reason why bill is even in gravity falls

[@t1rkb841]

Trick question: The answer is actually bill because he's the manipulator and has lead to having the two options as real world scapegoats

[@Endless_pain_therealone]

@@t1rkb841 counter question ok yeah but stan (the nerd one if someone is confused) (the six fingers if your still confused) (the on who came out of the portal if your still confused) was wared and he ignored

[@t1rkb841]

You have a great point, stanford didn't heed the warnings and was blinded by the demon that came from summoning it because he needed answers, the roadblock drove him to those measures of desperation Is ford a bad person? Frankly yes and no He has problems and definetly had to grow and thats what he did

[@mushroomcitizen]

CC West be having the Lily Orchard "Steven Universe is garbage and here's why" treatment and I'm here for it.

[@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816]

Turn out they were both creeps too

[@sailorstar3148]

@@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816 Also, I heard that she was denying writing home stock oh really inappropriate my little pony fanfiction

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Honestly, both videos made by CC West and Lily Orchard are popular enough to taint the media's reputation by their critiques based on bad-faith, but over the years, they're bound to age like a glass of milk that stays under the bed. Both of them are creeps. Former got cancelled, and the latter is a complete joke.

[@michaelstrong5383]

I will not tolerate any slander against Mabel as long as I'm here!

[@alcoholicgoat]

I think the people who hated Mabel still had developing brains and sided with Dipper, and also felt cheated that he didn't go with Ford. And as they got older, saw how Mabel's perspective isn't so unrealistic since adulthood usually entails a lot of big changes, and includes fractured relationships due to the passage of time. I'm speaking from personal experience since I have basically no friends left from high school and feel like I'm swimming in the ocean looking for something to hold onto (so is everyone else, but Mabel's decision aged pretty well. Is Mabel the Raiden of the Gravity Falls Universe?)

[@actualcatboy5762]

is mabel the raiden is a statement i did not expect to read

[@-alovelygaycat-]

Well I just had my mind blown

[@DinoKing3509]

I like that character so much. I name my dog after her.

[@Makiotio]

Another thing that I think people dont think about enough is that for nuch of the show Mabel has other things going on. She has friends and other hobbies. The mystery of Gravity Falls is intriguing to her, but she doesn't have Dippers obsession with it. She even seems to view his self obsessive tendencies as a negative, which if you look at Ford, they arguably can be. Dipper doesn't even shower regularly...

[@ValenArtsAnimation]

18:12 Not to mention Wendy got fired at the end of the episode anyway, so Dipper didn't really have any purpose to work on the pool 🤷

[@Birdyboys]

I knew my goat wouldn’t let me down! 🗣️

[@guestb8389]

*"She poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague unto our houses!"*

[@animasuperfreakgirl]

"She did?!"

[@guestb8389]

*"No! But are we just gonna wait around until she does?!"*

[@taskeshou2567]

I say we tip something over!

[@nickbritt1145]

*tips Mr. Poolcheck’s lifeguard chair*

[@lordedge9068]

At least for me a lot of my issues with Mabel are from when I first watched the show and then never rewatching it. Gravity Falls came out 12 years ago and ended 9 years ago. I think this is really important because back then a lot of us were kids. The argument of saying that Mabel is 12 years old and that excusing her did not matter to me when I was 9-12 years old. Even then, I still didn't constantly dislike her, it was really only during the finale episodes that I was mad. As a kid, I didn't see Ford's internship as a bad thing, I saw Dipper growing independent from his sibling as a good thing because I didn't have a good relationship with my own brother. The idea of not growing up around kids my age and hanging out with some cool guy like Ford was appealing. I wanted him to take the deal. Also, him telling Dipper not to trust her with the rift was kind of paid off from my perspective back then with her being the one to give it to Bill. I didn't think about how it could've been prevented by Ford warning her. I saw her as being super selfish and accidentally causing Weirdmageddon because of it. That didn't make me hate her or anything, but I remember being mad after part 2. I wanted Mabel to apologize and Dipper to say he was going to take the deal and that was the lesson. I remember blaming Mabel for Dipper turning down Ford's apprenticeship in the end. The idea of growing up fast was just appealing and it was very hard to see why it would be a bad thing. For years I maintained that while I loved Gravity Falls, I didn't like Mabel in the finale. That was just the way I recalled it, even after forgetting why. I did rewatch it a few years ago though and realized that I was wrong. Maybe it is just me trying to justify 12 year old me and not be such an idiot, but part of me does think they could've done a better job showing that Dipper's internship would've been bad for him. Like, it is quite obvious to me now, but I was just not old enough to think into the dialogue enough and only thought about it on a surface level and didn't learn the lesson, I just got mad. But idk, it is clear enough now that I'm in my 20s lol, being a kid was great and growing up sucks, I sympathize way more with Mabel nowadays compared to back then.

[@pippastrelle]

THANK YOU! Liking Dipper and not Mabel is such a double-standard. As far as they each knew, Mabel was giving Dipper's snowglobe to Blendin. Dipper was giving one of Mabel's puppets to *Bill*. Like?? They're not only similar but Dipper was worse. Vs The Future paints Mabel in a negative light only because the audience knows what Ford & Dipper made sure Mabel didn't know. As a twin myself, the sacrifices and teasing are just part of it. I love my sister to death. I moved cities and jobs twice to look after her. I don't need the universe to even that out. Though if we were kids and she told me she'd already accepted moving away from me, of course I'd be emotional! Honestly? People like those who hate Mabel are so weak when it comes to female characters having a modicum of focus and variation in personality/reaction.

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

1- made concise points and didn’t waste any time 2- argued the points well 3- avoided using trendy meaningless, zoomed buzzwords This is legitimately fantastic, and might go down as your all time best

[@sheilarikas]

I'm new to the Gravity Falls fandom but when I joined, I was SHOCKED to find out that people genuinely hated any of the characters especially Mabel. I'm an avid fan of Stanford and Mabel but seeing people blame a literal child for the end of the world instead for the one who was ending the world is insane.

[@sailorstar3148]

Hi, I’m someone who’s not new to Gravity Falls and I was really confused with all the Mabel hate because even a young age, I can see how dumb all those points were. Also, it was no wonder why CC west wanted an old girl to act like an adult because he’s into that.

[@LinWarai]

THE GUY WHO MADE THE “MABEL IS TERRIBLE” VIDEO IS A PREDATOR??? WTF EWWWW

[@zkme2734]

Never trust a guy who has a feud over a fictional 12 year old girl

[@AdaminTranzit]

you act as if its something new lmao Many people grow to be that mostly due to either fame going into their heads a bit too much or they for some reason (mostly trauma) develop the disorder (pedophilia is a disorder)

[@sailorstar3148]

He wanted a 12-year-old girl to act like a grown adult because he’s into that

[@apersonthatshere1157]

Also when this isn’t about how dipper can be just as “selfish” as Mabel I’d like to point out that almost all of dippers selfish desires ALWAYS PUT PEOPLE AT DANGER OR RISK OF DEATH. I forgot the episode name but the one where dipper learns tough love exist: he literally decides to abandon Stan for a bit to a triangle demon simply because because Stan was telling him to be tough and he couldn’t handle a bit of teasing The deep end: dipper literally hesitates and has to think about saving a LITERAL LIFE, instead of loosing the chances he didn’t have with Wendy Fight fighters: almost gets Robbie killed which yeah everyone hates robbie but at this specific moment in time they don’t have a reason to. Dipper only hates Robbie because he “stole” Wendy from him. Little Dipper: He lets his height and the fact that he’s shorter then Mabel get to him so badly that he goes to change himself and when they get a chance to get back bigger he gets them caught over the fact that she’s an inch taller. (And before anyone goes, “well Mabel bullied him” THEY ARE SIBLINGS SIBLINGS BICKER. And even more before that dipper was teasing her about winning a game. And if you pay attention you see that dipper has a whole LIST of things he’s won at agaisnt her. That in itself is bragging to a horrible level. Summerween: choose Wendy a girl he isn’t any where capable of dating, and a party he isn’t even old enough to go to and would probably get hurt there because he’s 12 and everyone else is probably 16+ over his sister who he’s been with his whole life and their favorite holiday. And then to “look older” throws their candy over board and almost gets them KILLED because he couldn’t handle the fact that if they knew he was trick or treating they might think he’s lame. All of that’s just season 1. Season2: Scary-oke: he goes agaisnt his GRUNKLES WORD mind you a master criminal who if anyone knows anything about the police and agents it would be him. Goes against his word and breaks Mabel’s promise. And summons zombies simply so some police agents can take him, a 12 year old, seriously. Into the bunker: while he doesnt put anyone in danger I’d like to point out that what Mabel did WAS wrong (in that moment) they didn’t know there was a monster in that bunker. And further more she did that because she knew dipper needed to get over Wendy. So did soos. EVERYONE KNEW HE NEEDED TO. So she wasn’t really being selfish. She was giving him the push he needed to tell her how he felt. It was just in the wrong moment. Sock opera: I won’t really go into it because the video said and I agree it wasn’t really his fault. Tho again here you can tell dipper is constantly failing at realizing human life is more important then science and discovering mystery. He knew bill was dangerous he didn’t need to be wide awake or anything to know that. Now that’s all i have a count of but compared to Mabel from what I know there wasn’t one time her actually selfish needs put people in DANGER maybe lead towards it in a way but not literally put them in danger like dipper has. And btw I LOVE dipper. But I refuse to let people act like Mabel’s selfishness out ways dippers when in my opinion he’s done WAY WAY WORSE for the WORST reasons.

[@thebugthatruinsyourpicnic]

saying Mabel caused Weirdmageddon is like blaming Luz for everything that happened with Belos. She was tricked, that's what Bill does, he tricks people. Nobody says Luz was at fault for the Day of Unity, so why would Mabel be at fault for Weirdmageddon?

[@anlydaly5726]

Ironically I feel that the only reason people don't blame Luz for the day of unity was because Luz was constantly blaming herself already and the show basically hit us over the hit with the point of "It isn't her fault!!!" If the show didn't go so hard in saying it wasn't her fault and Luz didn't literally spiral into a self hate filled depression people would probably be saying the day of unity was all her fault.

[@Der_Muffin_Mann]

People love to cherry pick evidence. There were plenty of times that Mabel had consequences given to her. I think people just want a reason to hate a character bc there really aren't characters that can be hated in this show

[@Seth_blessingSozo]

Hum, just because there's times she gets consequences doesn't undermine the times she doesn't. And no, her apologizing at the end of the bunker episode is not a consequence. In any other episode, if Dipper did something that stupid, it would have gotten way more repercussions.

[@Der_Muffin_Mann]

​@@Seth_blessingSozo I never said that there weren't times where she didn't get consequences. I agree that her apologizing isn't one of them. I'm saying that people pick the times she didn't get an aftereffect to say that Mabel was a bad character. I actually think that it might be likely if Dipper did something like that, he would have consequences.

[@ThatKidWhoGotBored]

I'm on the robbie hate train lol. Well written character, but gotta hate the guy wanting to throw hands with a kid half his size who had no chance with his girlfriend. He didn't even like Wendy, literally just hated Dipper.

[@Seth_blessingSozo]

@@ThatKidWhoGotBored Uh, first, I don't understand what it has to do with what we were talking about and secondly, that's wrong. Robbie didn't hate Dipper just to hate Dipper. He actually loved Wendy.

[@ThatKidWhoGotBored]

@@Seth_blessingSozo Soz lol I was half asleep and replied to the wrong comment lol. he barely ever listened to Wendy, maybe he did love her but he also totally used secret messages in a song to manipulate her