Mach-E Door Modules Better than Tesla!?

[@ahokie]

As a mechanic, I have spent a career replacing window regulators tracks as the plastic bushing were out. The Ford design seems to do away with rollers riding on a metal track. A very good thing. The pulley wire seems to be the weak point but I hope it is made of something very indestructible. I don't like snap in place connectors as they break. I like the Ford quick turn vs a bolt as they remain in place. Mechanics typically don't replace snap in connectors when they break and this leads to condensation and noise issues IMHO.

[@ignatgrz]

I also like fasteners, but I'm more familiar with consumer electronics, where a few years ago for example Microsoft made laptops, that were impossible to disassemble without damage and all the connectors and storage was on a single board, so no upgrades and more complicated rapairs / more just partially damaged assemblies ending up in trash.

[@dorhocyn3]

I agree....with ahokei

[@JK-ku2mj]

Ok it hase to be build that it never breake and fit well! Carbon fiber is unbrakable with Handtools by a thikness of 2mm...

[@ultraveridical]

Munro doesn't care about these things. He cares about showing his value as a cost-cutting consultant. If it breaks right after the warranty period, unserviceable, requires replacing the whole assembly, then it's even better. The first priority is making it cheaper to produce increasing value for the shareholders. The funny thing is that he's completely unashamed of his anti-consumer planned obsolescence narrative.

[@ignatgrz]

@@ultraveridical Which is his right, but I wish we (as a species) could focus on cutting down resource utilization and not maximizing finatial profits (which is usually a lot easier with financial instruments, that are divorced from physical products).

[@TheHertsHammer]

KZbin's algorithm suggested your video to me, and I'm glad it did. My late father retired from 40+ year's service working at Ford Europe in Cost & Purchase Analysis in the early '90s - He passed in 1997. Hearing your approach to engineering simplicity, parts reduction, ease of assembly and constant improvement reminds me so much of how he used to talk with me about his work. Thank you for sharing these videos - they remind me of some of my fondest memories.

[@oishisakana]

I'm gonna buy Sandy some threaded fasteners for Christmas, he loves them.

[@ploppyploppy6554]

A hobby kit we will donate .

[@MunroLive]

haha

[@djwarren5081]

Snap!

[@xcvsdxvsx]

When he walks down the hardware idle he has to shield his eyes to avoid a heart attack.

[@dolex161]

What a beautiful way to get the industry to change. In 10 years from now they'll be a whole slew engineers that also share your view on unfasteners.

[@Durianpieenthusiast]

The one thing I have to say though, is that as a consumer I much, much prefer fasteners over anything that snaps into place. It’s hard for me to judge whether I should pull things off with more force, or whether there’s just something off.

[@vernepavreal7296]

Agreed

[@johnrussell5245]

They don't design vehicles' doors to be dismantled when they're ten years old, they design vehicles' doors not to need dismantling.

[@Durianpieenthusiast]

@@johnrussell5245 Serviceability and reliability are not exclusive. Last thing I want is my car to be a hermetically sealed product.

[@RobLion]

@@johnrussell5245 There are lots of reasons why e.g. a broken window would need to be replaced that have nothing to do with design for reliability.

[@mobiuscoreindustries]

I agree. Sure best part is no part, but on things that you KNOW you will need to pull out more than every 5 years, there needs to be ways to acess it without risking breaking some stuff.

[@ashleyzinyk4297]

I wonder what Sandy thinks about the right to repair. It seems like a lot of the assembly methods he promotes would be irreversible.

[@ESCOTCH]

was thinking the same. total life considerations go beyond original manufacturing.

[@MaltePersike]

Yes. Even if you take the stance that some parts will never be serviced - what about recycling after EOL. I truly believe this is a huge blind spot in Sandy's engineering philosophy which he needs to work on.

[@xxwookey]

@@MaltePersike Agreed. It's been winding me up video after video. He's obsessed with manufacturing cost reduction, to the exclusion of whole-life costs, repairability and end-of-life recycling. In Europe car manufacturers have been responsible for EOL recycling for many years now, so this is a very important design consideration.

[@hobojo153alt4]

@@xxwookey Less parts means less materials used, and more importantly for recycling, less types of materials used. The only real concern would be the cost to the consumer to replace rather then repair, but one could argue that if the cost of the part is driven down low enough then that doesn't matter really.

[@MaltePersike]

@@hobojo153alt4 I wholeheartedly disagree. From a sustainability perspective, a 1.2 pound part with 100% recyclability is better than a 1 pound part with 50% recyclability. Responsible engineering needs to factor in the cost over the total lifespan of the product, which is most often MUCH longer than its operational lifespan.

[@dadbain]

Sandy as an old timer mechanic, I appreciate parts that I can personally repair as opposed R&R especially when the vehicles age and the manufacturer's parts bin is bare.

[@geraldganger7048]

I understand that snap fit parts are quicker to install but I would also be concerned about those parts developing rattles after a year or two.

[@pantzman]

Screwed in parts can still rattle.

[@kelvynbettridge]

Plastic fasteners are what lets down new cars. They start failing after a coupe of years and cars start rattling and never stop

[@kayzrx8]

So true

[@mho0]

@Chad L Yep. Servicing should be remembered. It should be illegal to create stuff/things that cannot be fixed. Is it waste of resources.

[@krystiankalinowski6757]

Mr Munro, one tip - always be plugging that sticker hustle for the Plaid Model S. Just a quick "if you want to see this done with a model S, buy our sticker, link below" in the end of each episode!

[@MrBadgas]

Ordered my signed sticker yesterday. Thanks Sandy!

[@airheart1]

I was wondering that also.. I do wonder if maybe this episode was shot before he started the bumper sticker teardown idea

[@FairlyOldGit]

can we get them delivered to the UK?

[@ZzHasbrozZ]

Best dressed tear down employees award goes to Munro and Associates.

[@RayNLA]

I was thinking the same thing. Must be a Midwest thing. Let them come to work Cali Style Sandy!

[@Stefan_Dahn]

They would be "Wrench Beauties Of The Week". 😉

[@FlyingArtz.]

Hahahahaha

[@DraftedByTheMan]

Probably more generous to credit the wife(wives)

[@kschleic9053]

I wonder if it is a dress code, or just company culture? I always enjoyed working in slacks and a collared shirt, as long as I was allowed to roll up the sleeves...

[@priddle3392]

Sandy "I did a science fair project about door modules in the 3rd grade and, hey, I just happen to have it here, where I showed how this was possible then". Always learn a lot in these videos. Good job.

[@mjcamp01]

I think you'll find it was - I told them how to do this in 1983 and they've nearly got there, if only they'd remove the fasteners!

[@deeplato5647]

Funny thing Riddle, I did a similar door module simplification presentation like yours when I was in preschool in July of 1968!

[@durable1988]

When you realize Sandy's entire career was built on telling some old Ford execs, "I told you so!"

[@davidbeppler3032]

If Ford listened to Sandy they would have invented Tesla.

[@toddmarshall7573]

7:30 "This should go in zip-click-done...why aren't we doing that now". Well, there's the rest of the story...getting it out. Anyone have stories about making simple repairs and breaking the little plastic clips at every turn...or pull...or pry? I wonder if it was Demming that got Toyota to use twist clips for installing lamps. It's a little more obvious with those that getting them out is "the rest of the story".

[@ivantierney6737]

I work on a lot of the plastic parts. I buy a lot of JB Weld to put the cars back together again.

[@2nd3rd1st]

I don't know if the "hook it in place and lock it down click click" for the door panels is a universally useful idea. It sure seems faster and cheaper but there might be issues with noise and rattling when the panel is only hooked in 3 or 4 places instead of tightly fastened all around. And if one or more of the hooks break off there is no way to fasten the panel, whereas those quarter turn screws can be replaced.

[@jimjohnson3410]

In regards to noise, what looks like a rubber grommet might get pinched in the manufacturing step. There are certainly routes around it, but something to consider.

[@CoreyWoodcox]

Yep. The “even pressure on the seal” comment he made is very underrated, it’s hard to screw that up unless you lose/break one of the fasteners

[@youmakeitreal]

Also have to consider the warranty period. Snap in is great in production/assembly. As for longevity I don't think as much. Heat cycling for one causing warping leading to noise and failures. In my mind the multitude of fasteners keep even loading on the assembly for a longer lasting part. But what do I know🤷‍♂️. Further more the plastic wheels that the cables roll through/around is the number one failure point in any window winder assembly. I have replaced hundreds.

[@eriksen1964]

@@youmakeitreal And, once you crank up the music volume, the bass and middletone from those doorpanels will be pounding on those fasteners, saving the driver from rattle noice from the doors. Trust me, I think those fastners are there for a reason.

[@jamesbonde4470]

Plastic suffers from a kind of "fatigue" similar to metal fatigue. Those snap fasteners will snap before the warranty expires.

[@carguy5517]

There is not much load on them the way ford transfers the window regulator load into the inner panel. They just have to keep compression for the seal gasket around the perimeter. The material they use resists creep well.

[@slicksalmon6948]

I was an industrial chemist in a Detroit firm that developed automotive adhesives. The big problem we always faced was heat. Cars standing in the sun get extraordinarily hot. I would think that a car made with a lot of plastic and snap fasteners wouldn’t do well in the heat. I think I’d rather have metal parts and screws. But, that’s just me.

[@danielarhire1770]

What about the speaker vibrations. Clipping the panels will induce vibrations especially at those bass frequency. Minimum fasteners required also for sealing the audio box.

[@M1911jln]

One concern that I have is that if the window regulator breaks, now you have to replace that entire expensive door module. Window regulators have broken in the past (witness the Golf/Jetta IV window regulator debacle).

[@ivantierney6737]

That is how Ford is going to make the money working on the cars after selling them . Wait till next winter they will be selling a lot of door poppers stripping plastic parts or just breaking them trying to open the doors when they’re frozen shut. Lotta other items they are going to be selling. Sorry not covered under warranty. I used to work in a dealership

[@thebugger2000]

I like the multple 1/4 on the pannel for rattles over time. the tenson should eliminate rattles in the future and the whole panel doesn't have to be replaced if you f*** it up, just a couple of twistys

[@RB-pi3jl]

I've had even older cars with snap in modules. As the plastic aged, they often broke upon removal. But no worries since I was replacing the part with a new one.

[@johnnicol8598]

This is all ok for last through warranty and throw it all away. All the manufacturer cares about. None of this will ever live to classic old car age. Cars are like Bic lighters now.

[@-mike-8134]

I have a 20 year old Nissan PU that is used less than 10 times a year and the plastics in it are breaking off here and there as it is just sitting there waiting for me to take it for a drive. I look at that mach e and wonder how long will it last... when you can't buy or find the plastic parts anymore, say about 10 years.

[@elektrotehnik94]

I def see door modules being taken apart now and again --> I have a 2000 year Seat Leon & it leaks rainwater through the door module ^^ Just saying, there are limits for snap-in fasteners use cases

[@johnnicol8598]

@@-mike-8134 Yes for sure. That door panel looks like some of the cheapest plastic crap I've ever seen. I sincerely hope this is not a high end vehicle. It's just complete rubbish.

[@TheCarpenterUnion]

Yes, worries. Nobody wants to have to spend an extra $30 on specialty plastic fasteners that are just going to break again next time you have to remove the door panel

[@supernumex]

Sandy: Ford, you did great, but why the heck didn't you do greater?!

[@stevehockey4]

Thats the language of innovation.

[@nomayor1]

That is not the point, the point is why is there an exclamation mark in the title. In the end, how many cars have Ford designed over the last 100 years, and how many have Tesla have? So who is really the most experienced here? Does the exclamation mark mean that it is Tesla??

[@ivantierney6737]

I know that Ford is out to make money making the car the way that they did so far they will make money in the long run selling parts. So far 4 coolant pump motors bunch of hose connections now plastic window workings. I would like to know it the door was frozen shut in the winter would the door opener push it open or brake trying. Just plastic that’s cheap Sandy likes it. Make it cheap as possible we don’t have to worry about it lasting.

[@Aser6000]

A plastic window regulator might work fine now, but how is it going to hold up when the car is 15 years old?

[@johnpoldo8817]

The manufacturer doesn't care after the warranty expires. If one regulator fails in 8 years, I don't think it will cause the buyer to switch brands on their next purchase.

[@radicalrick9587]

I've had tons of plastic clips break whereas I've never had a metal fastener break on me. Maybe that is what Tesla is thinking. Something that will last and not break over time.

[@joshuavoss1387]

Are the plastic clips not designed to be single use and break when the panels are removed or have I been doing it wrong my entire life!? I feel like the Saturn was designed out of plastic clips (one of the reasons my window and clutch broke was a plastic wheel and plastic clip), but even Toyota, Honda, Nisan, Lexus, I’ve broken plastic clips on all those sons o b!tches

[@EnlightenedSavage]

They’re supposed to be single use. But no one uses them that way.

[@yehudagoldberg6400]

The last thing Tesla cares about is repairability.

[@hallkbrdz]

@@EnlightenedSavage Because everyone HAS to design and use a new style and what you need is never in stock.

[@seanz6586]

@@yehudagoldberg6400 oh please.

[@StarionJA]

I can see myself and others in a wrecking yard in 15 years time running from car to car in hopes that at least one of those all plastic regulator modules is still usable. Dealers only stock spares for so long.

[@idylwild48]

Suppliers are obligated to produce service parts for 10 years after the end of production.

[@StarionJA]

@@idylwild48 yep, not long, my cars are 38, 28 and 17 years old.

[@ivantierney6737]

A lot of JB Weld

[@Val-sl6ng]

I'm so happy to see that Tesla is behind in some pieces, as it means that their cars will get even better and cheaper to manufacture very, very soon.

[@ivelostmymind6020]

you said it right. their cars will get even cheaper soon -- cheaper in quality control than it already is. its garbage.

[@JasonWW2000]

@@ivelostmymind6020 No, cheaper to manufacture.

[@Val-sl6ng]

@@ivelostmymind6020 I like your nickname, says a lot.

[@radfree9370]

@@ivelostmymind6020 Ford been making cars for more than a century and tesla only for 17 years, yet you still fear them.

[@cyclopsvision6370]

as the old saying goes....there's room for improvement

[@yamaha37776]

I work for Dearborn design, when we design the window regulator we have to think of serviceability, reliability, and a screw type fastener is the best application here. You explain to the techs in the service bays your philosophy, if we really just on plastic clips and it has to be removed, usually they break. And your other design tip on reversing the charging door, no, the door will always hinge with the hinge facing towards the front of the vehicle. You should know why, com’ on man.

[@prerunnerwannabe]

Wouldn't fasteners make repairability easier? If there's anything I've learned from my backyard mechanics is that clips almost ALWAYS break. Repairability is super important.

[@shmadmanuts]

For you and me, and for other guys that would like to repair themselves the simpler stuff it is important. For the manufacturer - he wants to be able to make the same stuff for less money For the services that have boxes with clips on hand - breaking snapping clips is no big deal. Sandy speaks for the manufacturer here.

[@yehudagoldberg6400]

How often do you plan on reparing your door?

[@jpinto3912]

They break on the first time an untrained person tries to get them out, because the unfastening movement/force is rarely intuitive... Bolts and nuts don't easily break, because you've learned lefty-loosy so long ago. Clips, hangs, nails, and in general anything plastic will degrade with heat ciclying, repeats, UV exposure, etc... becomes brittle/blunt. But it's possible to make durable plastic (with fiber glass, UV resistance, etc), and make clips designed to come apart by pressing tabs, etc. You see that a lot on electronics. But it takes more design time and effort. You can buy screws in boxes of 10000s in 10000s different sizes.

[@thomaslemay8817]

@@yehudagoldberg6400 doors require repair often, lock solenoids electric window motors, door latches and rear view mirror components fail regularly those door panels also contain lights that also fail. How do I know this, I worked on fleet vehicles. We had 1200 vehicles under 1-ton load capacity and 600 Vehicles over 1 ton.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

@@yehudagoldberg6400 Warranty, if a part fails. Or Changing window glass.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

Probably fasteners because if your window gets broken, they need to be able to replace it. If it was clips and they broke during the repair, you'll have to go to ford and wait for a new module.

[@VAST86]

"Sip clip done" T-Shirt anyone xD.

[@amkarkare96]

Not click click click click click or zoo zoo zoo zoo zoo

[@wongman2001]

Great band name

[@mefobills279]

The Ford panel torques down evenly with the quarter turn fasteners. That then prevents rattles on a quiet electric car.

[@trengilly01]

"click . . click . . click . . verp . . verp . . verp" Sandy . . . love it!

[@motofunk1]

This channel is Sandy's "I told you so" career moment.

[@-LightningRod-]

you have no idea how happy it makes me to see S.Munro be able to get to say the things out loud that he has been preaching for years much to the dismay of mediocre Auto execs its like when the underdog becomes a superhero.

[@motofunk1]

@@-LightningRod- If I ran one of the auto companies today and our parts got commentary on a channel like this... Everyone who worked on that part would get sent to Sandy's shop and have to debate their decisions on a live stream.

[@-LightningRod-]

@@motofunk1 lol, it wouldnt matter friend MBA's are not trained in morals or good behaviour

[@HylanderSB]

How servicable are those self holding clip modules? Over the years I've broken so many plastic clips that get brittle with age or are just impossible to undo gracefully.

[@bluetoad2668]

Yes, this is better only from a manufacturing speed point of view. From a quality and longevity standpoint it's not better. Often those 2 things will be at odds. The Cybertruck for example is built to last, that has to scare legacy auto. Musk doesn't care about building cars which last a long time, he's not playing that game.

[@JasonWW2000]

All you need to do is buy a box of new clips to replace the brittle ones. Those are disposable parts.

[@tzarcoal1018]

Can all the Tesla boys stop acting like Tesla marketing department. The cyber truck is not out yet and there is no info about how it is constructed. Give praise where it is deserved, but stop with all the blank checks.

[@airheart1]

@@tzarcoal1018 well there IS quite a big part of how it will be constructed that IS known. Not the fine details, no. But that it will be a stainless steel exoskeleton design, is quite a large piece of the puzzle. As for the castings that may also go in.. we know there will be, but need to wait and see to what degree.. and then all these smaller bits of doors and everything else.. yeah.. true.. absolutely unknown at this point what they will do against what they've already done in the other models. But you can't say, no info is known about how it will be constructed.

[@VoxelLoop]

@@bluetoad2668 Tesla has always had a weird approach in that regard, the drivetrain will last forever, but it may just be wheels, motors, and a battery at the end. Not the whole body will make it. :)

[@kens97sto171]

I wonder if the fasteners are used to hold it tight against the metal door panel so that the airbag detection module has a good air seal. That is required for proper side airbag deployment. I'm not sure that a snap in design would give reliable air ceiling between the two sides of the module. I also wonder about serviceability when that car is 10 or 15 years old and you've got to replace a window regulator. If those snaps crack or fracture you're going to end up with a rattling window. Of course in the new Ford design the window regulator is integrated into the entire module. I wonder how that's going to work though when it comes to replacing a window regulator. Now I've got to replace a large expensive part when I could have just bought a window regulator motor. Maybe someone will offer individual pieces of that assembly to repair it.

[@alanlight7740]

It depends on the cost of the larger, integrated part, of course. Sometimes it is better to be able to repair or replace each individual part, but at some point it might become cheaper just to replace a whole module. This is especially true when you figure in the cost of labor, and it's why we no longer see television repair shops like we used to have. It is just nearly always cheaper to replace a modern television set than to repair it. But that said, I know lots of guys who will figure out how to jury rig a repair and not have to buy any new parts at all, and the module shouldn't be made in such a way that it can't be removed and replaced - so while I can see a place for it being slid into place in a way that requires fewer screws, I'd be cautious about using something that would allow it to snap in if it meant that the module could not be removed and replaced without breaking the module.

[@carguy5517]

All the components are easily replaced w/ screws. Except for the window regulator when it is fully integrated like this one. Then the door module carrier plate is replaced and the components are swapped. The regulator motor is serviceable from the dry side. Window reg serviceability is a big determining factor on whether the window reg is integrated or not. Ford and Hyundai/Kia have chosen integrated, Stellantis, BMW and others have chosen a separate aluminum or steel railed system. All of them meet the durability requirements, the integrated ones are more challenging to package and other door system compromises must be made to do it. Also, you need perimeter fasteners spaced at 100-200mm or else you will get leaking at the foam-in-place gasket, you also need some near the window reg rail attachment points to bear the stall reaction loads. The sealing is mostly for water leakage and some wind noise, the pressure sensors are actually fairly forgiving wrt to pressure drop sensing. They test them with a big hole in the door to be sure.

[@stevenc22]

If you have built in snaps, if you break a snap during servicing, havent you ruined the entire door module? Maybe thats why they still keep removable 1/4 turns.

[@oferkrupka]

I think 2 hooks at the bottom, and 2 1/4 turn at the top will do the job.

[@rkan2]

@@oferkrupka Yeah, just like on the under the hood trim in the Mach-E

[@harsimranbansal5355]

He answered that in other videos and he said you just make a good quality snap fit. It’s the bad quality ones that break so easily.

[@DavidOfWhitehills]

Mould in a place for a flatblade screwdriver to open up the snap. Taint rocket science.

[@dzerres]

Many components have sort of a hook-tray holding in the bottom of a panel and then a fastener or two at the top for disassembly or replacement. Our light in our swimming pool drops into a slot at the bottom edge and then there's one screw at the top. I can hold my breath long enough to insert and secure that light bulb in one breath.

[@jaredmulconry]

My father has been working on cars for over 40 years. I could never picture him dressing as sharp as the people of Lean Design when working on a car.

[@TennisGvy]

Helps that they have new cars with only 10 miles on 'em!

[@xploration1437]

They’re not working on cars.

[@youtubasoarus]

The window motor rails integrated into the panel is cool, but I can imagine one post breaks off and the entire panel has to be replaced.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

How often have your car window rail broken?... I've never had it.

[@teslascoop2177]

Because plastic never wraps.. oh wait

[@youtubasoarus]

@@teslascoop2177 Window regulators break after a while, and they're metal. I can't imagine how long plastic will fare.

[@TheCarpenterUnion]

Still blows my mind they use plastic pulleys riding on plastic dowels for something that sees as many cycles as a window regulator. My 2004 Saab (comparable to a BMW of the time) had this "technology" which completely disintegrated over time

[@Robert-cu9bm]

@@TheCarpenterUnion Different plastics, some plastics are harder wearing than metals. Plastic is used in industry for pulley, rollers, guides etc..

[@dirty69impala]

I used to build “Snap Together” model car kits when I was a kid. I love the idea of translating that type of building to real cars. Those model kits were usually cheaper and didn’t require fasteners (glue). You could build it quickly and more importantly, take it apart quickly!

[@tomsdaddy]

Apart from Cost, however, isn't there also now a question of recyclability ? There must now be assembly methods that enable modules to be disassembled, so that the materials they are made of can be recycled ? Otherwise even something simple like that Door module contains Steel, Aluminium, Copper, plastics and Rare earth metals (in speakers and motors) - only a fraction of which is recyclable at a cost-effective price if it is left as a single piece.

[@rhamph]

Unfortunately designing for recyclability like that would vastly increase the lifetime cost of the car so it's simply ignored.

[@xxwookey]

@@rhamph It's been a requirement in the EU since 2000: ec.europa.eu/environment/topics/waste-and-recycling/end-life-vehicles_en Cars have not become excessively expensive over the last 20 years. Design for recycling/repairability actually _reduces_ lifetime cost: you just have to not ignore the issue at design time.

[@hobojo153alt4]

When you're recycling something you don't need to worry about breaking it. A molded plastic container with no way to open it, without smashing it, isn't a concern. What is a concern is materials fused in ways that can't be separated. (in a way that's at all feasible)

[@Haeze]

Sandy: I think the reason for the 1/4 Turn fasteners is because there is a speaker in that door. If you used clips and hooks to fasten that door, it will be more prone to vibration and wear on those clips with extended use of the speaker at higher volumes. A screw or 1/4 turn ensures that the module has a good compression seal onto the door and will not cause any strange vibration noises during heavy bass use of the speaker.

[@bobqzzi]

"How can we reduce costs?" I don't know, how about people opening the doors manually using a dirt cheap and reliable mechanical door handle?

[@petemiller519]

I hear you buddy. I ordered a regular cab F350 dually 4x4 XL with manual roll ups and manual locks. The millennial salesman said you can't buy manual windows, so I showed him the website build. I ordered the truck, it was the cheapest truck on the lot, but had the biggest payload (over 7000lbs). No backup screen, ..... I can turn my head and look where I am going instead of staring at a screen. Cheers.

[@curmudgeon1933]

10:20. Medical devices can be priced to include quality materials. Health insurance companies just increase the premiums. Car companies nickel-and dime for maximum profit, so cheap fasteners are used which break during disassembly, and the cost of repair is passed on to the customer.

[@BrianBourgeois-]

I like the snap in place for assembly that's a good idea. My only concern would rattles over time compared to the twist fasteners.

[@igsgarage]

As the saying goes, if you open a door panel once, it will rattle forever. Plastic sucks for longevity

[@brois841]

I like the idea of sliding in the panel but still fastening it from the other side. Best of both worlds... faster assembly, less parts/fasteners, but also a solid way to hold the panel in place so that it can be removed without breaking, doesn't creek or make noises with time.

[@jimd7305]

The Tesla door is frameles so I think it needs more stability for the window regulator, apart from that fair comment.

[@carguy5517]

Correct, and much more adjustability

[@MotorsportsX]

I like the way the ford quarter turn fasteners work. no clips to undo (that break) no need to lift the panel to unclip wires. Its a good design.

[@fireking5806]

Love the content

[@MunroLive]

Thanks

[@icare7151]

@@MunroLive Munro & Associates Success by Design Munro & Associates Today 🥇Tomorrow’s Winners🏆 Thank you 🙏 for making everything better by design.

[@SteelSculptor]

Ugh, plastic window regulators - anyone ever owned a Lincoln Navigator. Comes with automatic retracting windows! They even stay down permanently! ;)

[@xcvsdxvsx]

Plastic ain't what it used to be. Some of the strongest and most advanced modern materials are polymers these days.

[@airheart1]

yeah.. I have to trust Sandy when he says they can be equal quality.. but that doesn't mean that every plastic one will be equal quality.. I'd want to see some very sophisticated design for a plastic window regulator. That is a heavily used moving item.. not something I want to hear rattling around in a year as the plastic begins to deform over time baking in the desert heat where I live. That better be some serious ass strong, heat resistant and well molded plastic

[@FairlyOldGit]

@@airheart1 My worry is that the cord wrapped around the plastic pulleys and connecting the window regulators doesn't look very strong or durable. First time you get a frozen up window and they will be just a pile of bits in the bottom of the door.

[@darreno1450]

@@airheart1 I agree. The Tesla design looks like it will last longer.

[@alanmay7929]

@@darreno1450 uhm wrong

[@wrohr15309]

I live in Vegas and I am currently replacing my window regulator in my 2002 Ford Focus. When i saw how those parts are designed. I was like well how much is that going to cost to replace when the window stops going up because the plastic pieces have decayed and become brittle. My regulator was $80 bucks. That huge plastic piece in the Mach E will cost hundreds of dollars to replace. At least Tesla sort of has like what i am replacing now.

[@eriksen1964]

Your (now) $80 regulator did cost hundreds of dollars to replace, way back when that type of regulator was new tech.

[@MrRich2u]

Love it. I work in the medical field. We make cases and trays for hip and knee replacement.. He's right on. No reason they need to have that motor come apart. It's a replaceable part.

[@keithkrueger1609]

So when the window track fails you need to replace the whole module. Not just the tracks?

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"If" the window track fails. Nowadays, you have to balance part cost against labour (if it's in a dealer). If you do the job at home, buy the plastic module and swap the parts, or glue it.

[@poopscoopproductions3177]

This module would be a hell of a lot cheaper to replace than the older modules

[@ProbeGT2]

yeah but they will sell it to you 1000$ because you need all this shit. Specially at ford. I own a flex ecoboost and they think this is a bentley everytime I need a part. like, 500$ for a downpipe with a flexible, not even stainless. 2 feet of pipe with 1 bend, 1 flange and 1 flexible, 500$.

[@keithkrueger1609]

@@rogerstarkey5390 I do these repairs myself. For my gm truck I paid 40 dollars for a aftermarket set from ebay . And it was more robust than originals

[@Wol747]

Fasteners make for box strength when the door is assembled. Hook and snap allows more torsional twisting.

[@tudorbaidoc]

I feel blessed when Sandy calls us “Boys & Girls” ☺️☺️

[@dorhocyn3]

It looks as though they are utilizing that inner door module as part of the structural rigidity and Vice versa. All those fasteners are to allow a uniform transition of stress. Also it may have a connection with side impact protection as silly as it might seem.

[@jmpetersrn]

185,000 subscribers? It seems like just last month when you hit 10,000. It is all due to you and your teams hard work, expertise and unbiased analysis. Congratulations Sandy and team.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks Jeff

[@GrandHuevotes]

and yes you’re right those panels can just hook w plastic protrusions into metal holes stamped in the door frame and use one or two twist turns to lock.

[@jamesseay9943]

Great presentation, easy to follow, helpful to both Ford and Tesla. Its a great time to be a car guy. Thank you Sandy and Ben.

[@MunroLive]

Our pleasure!

[@TheJoeSwanon]

God damn those reports look extensive and extremely professionally done. You guys definitely earned every penny OEM’s pay for your services

[@michalfaraday8135]

Sandy´s great-great-grandson looking at the Enterprise protein sequencer: "Why the hell does it need so many molecules?"

[@pebody1013]

Great musical intro, and a guest appearance from BEN! This channel is getting better and better. Keep up the great work guys!

[@MunroLive]

Thanks James

[@sparkfire1223]

Replacing that regulator is going to suck when it breaks.

[@JasonWW2000]

No, just swap the panel or maybe just the motor.

[@sparkfire1223]

@@JasonWW2000 I dont see an aftermarket company making this part in 10years time. Unless this panel is used in a bunch of other models.

[@ulwur]

@@sparkfire1223 just 3d-print one?

[@sparkfire1223]

@@ulwur your not being serious right

[@hallkbrdz]

@@sparkfire1223 Try 7. The number of years Ford will (try) and carry all the parts needed for your vehicle. After that... good luck.

[@Chris-ji4iu]

Love these videos. I'll take the metal threaded fasteners over the plastic quarter turn any day of the week. Who else can hear the rattle of those doors in the Mach-E after 50k miles?

[@nickidk4]

Please state what Tesla Model and Year you compare to. As you know, Tesla moves fast, so would be great to know how old the modle compared to is 😊 Great video.

[@MunroLive]

Model Y

[@juliahello6673]

It’s red so it’s the Model Y that they tore down 14 months ago.

[@AndyZach]

@@juliahello6673 So that means designed in 2019 and built in 2020.

[@nickidk4]

@@AndyZach thanks 👍

[@icare7151]

@@MunroLive 0 fastener, two step robotic design: The sub assembly should have everything already installed in layers within a tub that will be permanently sealed and adhesively welded to the door and the components within will be fully serviceable. Robots can do the entire process in two steps. To keep cost down and strength up, the tub could also be made out of advanced blended staple carbon & polypropylene fiber filaments as a structural member reducing the amount of high strength aluminum or steel used in the door all in a two robotic process at the final assembly plant. Thoughts? Cheers, KP Colorado Springs, CO 🏔🇺🇸

[@superfly19751]

Man, Ford is killing it with the Mach-E. Good to see

[@polarbearigloo]

Sandy say the stickers in each video at the end I'll be buying the sticker soon myself for the Plaid S teardown.

[@WalkingDday]

Plasric snap fasterners often break when you try to take a door panel off.

[@dougfreeman6875]

I’ve driven a couple of Mach E Premiums, and in all of them the interior door pulls seem to flex away from the door panel when you close the door. Could that be because they don’t have enough screws? 😂

[@deeplato5647]

3 more Snap Clip Go attachments

[@carguy5517]

Yep! deflection between the door trim handle and the door module u-nuts, or deflection of the module to the door inner panel. This is one of the many reasons you need many good fasteners.

[@ivantierney6737]

That is called plastic inner panel plastic bends a lot. But it’s cheap and Sandy likes it. Wait till the side impact hits it The one sitting inside would wish there was some Steel there. Let’s put some plastic doors on Sandy’s jeep

[@imakro69]

@@ivantierney6737 plastic can be great in crashes, if it's the right plastic it's waaaaay better than sheet metal, with a couple of glued reinforcing beams, look at BMW i3, or i8, made of plastic, a lot of race cars are plastic, nothing bad about it, simply the way it's used and its formula

[@ivantierney6737]

@@imakro69 OK we are talking about the Ford mustang E not something else. So would you feel as safe in the mustang E behind the plastic the way it is, or in a tesla. Side impact. I think the test dummy will tell you that in that mustang it hurt. The Tesla the door will have a bow in it. Make it cheap that’s better but it doesn’t save lives. Have Sandy have some plastic doors stamped out and put on his jeep it would be a lot cheaper than steel. I don’t think you’d like it then.

[@monster-fw4hd]

Yeah. I had to replace a retractable handle on my model S last year and after I put back everything, I was left with a couple of extra fasteners. There were several different kinds too I had to keep up.

[@bradcavanagh3092]

Certainly weird seeing such an integrated and optimised door design after seeing that mess under the hood.

[@bobwallace9753]

Door guys don't interact with hose guys who don't interact with .... Tesla seems to have more of an integrated approach to design.

[@nonyanks2510]

Built by comity.

[@shakengandulf]

Im sure ford will organise the front in time like tesla will with the doors.

[@JohnSeitz]

My assumption with the “mess under the hood” is that Ford knows how to build in mass and quickly. Where as Tesla can’t so Tesla needs to design a better process. End of the day I’d much rather own the MachE

[@eddiegardner8232]

I so agree with Sandy about snap in parts. I designed several printers that assembled like that.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Anyone that's worked on a printer ("on the clock") will both understand and curse "modules" in that application! When the boss asks you to "just" go and fit a gear at a small business working from home that's paid the minimum callout charge, meaning you have 30 minutes. (But you know having looked at the manual it's going to take 90 minutes)

[@radicalrick9587]

I remember when people bought cars in past it was with the intention of passing the car down to their kids and hopefully their grandkids. They don't build cars like that anymore. Cars started falling apart once they started adding all that plastic stuff. I've worked on and built cars for almost 45 years as a hobby. So I've watched the automakers make new cars that were nothing more than a piece of junk with no possibility of being able to pass them along from one generation to the next.

[@seasong7655]

Again Sandy has been ahead of the competition by 40 years!

[@PhillipDrumz]

Love these videos!!!

[@MunroLive]

Glad you like them Phillip!

[@htnowpro]

Ford started using these door modules before the Mach E. The 1/4 turn fasteners are there for serviceability, Sandy I know you said you don't include serviceability in your engineering scheme of things as you have well said in the past. Keep up the good work. 😀

[@rmkilc]

Not including serviceability is a big failure.

[@TheCarpenterUnion]

The only acceptable exclusion of serviceability is if it's adequately engineered to exceed the life of the user(s). In other words, never, because there can always be someone to inherit it.

[@bob15479]

Sandy how will you repair the window in the door designed to snap in like you say? Will there be a little key that you used to unsnap each snap?

[@dairyqueen1234]

Munro is the industry's foremost influencer.

[@rare_wubbox360]

Great Sandy! Missed info regarding wires and the electric stuff in the door👍🇳🇴

[@vineetlele1489]

100% Agree Sir, Snap-Snap-Go should be the theme of Design for Faster & Simple production & for Services.

[@BillyBob-fd5ht]

It is interesting seeing how they engineer things, good way to know what one is buying, problem with these modules is replacement is the whole unit instead of a small part. so 1500 or 10 bucks

[@DavidOfWhitehills]

So make it well. Like Sandy says, to medical standard reliability.

[@Yelonek1986]

@@DavidOfWhitehills then the whole point about it being cheaper goes down the drain

[@DavidOfWhitehills]

@@Yelonek1986 If you're churning out millions of identical parts per annum the price goes down. And if it snaps together in a couple seconds, cheaper yet. The point is you got to spend big bucks up front for the tooling, but it's cheaper in the long run. To quote the Six Million Dollar Man: "We have the technology." We've had it since Sandy was watching that, back in the day. That's what Sandy is trying to say here.

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

Sounds like Sandy needs to do a ground up design. Would look very interesting inside and out.

[@macnibnob]

More photo album stuff please. Those are my favorite parts. It’s great to see how long it takes genius to be understood by average folks.

[@drjaye1962]

thx 4 the heads up Sandy ur the man....peace

[@tbvv6729]

Wouldn’t plastic door regulator breaks easily? We’ll find out in 2 years or so.

[@NotAnonymousNo80014]

We'll find out shortly after the warranty runs out.

[@ravisundaram3431]

His mimicry of the power tool screw driver is amazing.

[@munrolive.2693]

F•O•R M•O•R•E G•U•I•D•A•N•C•E. **+**1**4*7*0**4*9*9**4*8*3*3***📈.

[@airheart1]

Sandy.. what kind of plastic are they using in those door modules? And what is Tesla using? There are varying qualities of that stuff and I'd be curious to know if either is using better quality plastics over the other. Stuff that weathers well and has longevity vs the old cheap plastics that warp in heat, go brittle after a few years and rattle and crack.

[@Bartender_Bill]

Always feel a little bit smarter… strike that… lot smarter after watching a ten minute clip from Munro & Associates! Truly enjoy your discussions!

[@indrektukmann]

what the heck is going on with Ford door electronics? Why the door needs three connectors. There must be only power and data cable. All the door functions (lock, window, lights, sound etc) can be controlled over canbus

[@AudiTTQuattro2003]

...can be controlled, sure, but each requires fuse 12v power to actuate. No free lunch.

[@TheCarpenterUnion]

Sound, not recommended, but yes everything should be manageable over one connector.

[@VHVDRAGON]

Pure snap is vulnerable to breakage a few screws/ quarter turn will make it more durable if and when a repair is required.

[@michaemeier]

"threaded fasteners" sounds so nicely technical. Would it offend anyone to just call them screws or bolts?

[@Harry-uq9qd]

he does call them bolts sometimes but the threaded fasteners term is the most general and so i think easier to use

[@carguy5517]

It's a very common term in automotive

[@Trent-tr2nx]

"Threaded fasteners" are a more overarching term that encompasses screws and bolts, as well as traditional and PEM nuts, threaded rods (studs), and much more I'm sure. So it's probably more accurate to say that Sandy hates threaded fasteners rather than just screws and bolts.

[@immigrantlife1089]

Love this one Sandy. I have learnt so much just listening to you. Thank you so much. Forever grateful.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks

[@ckennylin717]

How do snaps vs fasteners fare if the door glass need to be replaced?

[@alanmay7929]

None

[@unclezeppy]

I saw a small car door module years ago that was probably made out of coconut shells or something. It had one metal part in addition to the motor, the bracket that moves the window up and down. It was a bit heavy but they said it's also good for noise cancelation and the speaker. I told them the window lift is clever, so simple, and the sales guy said the designer used to work on videotape recorders. It was a proof of concept but there was hope it will end up in some Chinese car. Years back when VW Santana was the most common taxi in Shanghai I asked a taxi driver why the car is rattling so badly. He said it had over 750000km on it and they are testing how long it can go. He made a point:" If it's not bolted or welded in it will start rattling sooner or later. Plastics will dry out, shrink, and break. Small screws will chew them bigger holes and get loose. All the weatherstrips and seals will harden. Metal will rust." They had already taken one earlier model apart at 600k which had the second set of full interior and suspension/drivetrain but the body had started to flex so badly they had stopped the test.

[@chasingchases6678]

You know you getting money when your mechanics Dress business casual lol… great info👍

[@db4z09]

How do expect to get sufficient contact pressure around the full perimeter of the seal with only two or no fasteners? Both the steel door inner and plastic molded insert are going to deflect away from each other away from the fasteners and not compress the seal evenly unless you added a lot of weight to make the two parts on both sides of the seal really stiff. All parts also have tolerances and the mechanical fasteners help ensure you get clamp load around the full seal with those tolerances. Maybe you coul use RTV but that is an extra process and increases service cost.

[@djwarren5081]

Sandy was thinking outside the box before the box was even invented.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Sandy 🙄🤔🙄🤔🤔 "We need a box"

[@TK-zw8xe]

Plastic snap in connectors break all the time, especially after they age. I like the 1/4 turns.

[@hankkingsley9183]

Honestly, if any legacy automaker is behind Tesla, an upstart noobie with far less resources and experience, they should be highly embarrassed. Ford, VW, GM, etc should all be delivering products that blow Tesla entirely out of the water.

[@MrCountrycuz]

They have union concerns that inhibit streamlining

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@MrCountrycuz But they have streamlining concerns which (may) inhibit the future of the company.

[@carguy5517]

The traditional OEM electrics are coming and they will bring it when they do. Tesla was 'first to market' and pushes the tech but 1) they don't make a profit selling cars and 2) their quality is terrible (at the very bottom). The established automakers wont accept either of those things so they are working slow and steady, as they do.

[@FamilyFirstJ]

1983-Present...Sandy = Beastmode

[@Benedict-01]

Perhaps they still use fasteners because they "fear" undercuts for the hooks

[@deepwoodssittin2737]

0:38 Someone teach this man how to use a ratchet! Watching that hurt my brain!