MACHINE SHOP TIPS #90 Splitting a Hair on the Atlas Lathe tubalcain

[@ypaulbrown]

watched this back when it was first posted, decided I needed to watch again as I just bought another lathe and have not used a lathe in 8 years......cheers Lyle.....and best wishes......PB

[@mrpete222]

👍👍

[@StanErvin-yo9vl]

​@@mrpete222 Looks like a good place to hotlink the oversized dial series, Lyle. 🧙‍♂️🏁 (⁠☞⁠ ͡⁠°⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ͡⁠°⁠)⁠☞☜⁠ ⁠(⁠↼⁠_⁠↼⁠)

[@tracyguilbeau]

WOW! I never thought of doing that! 35 years experience here, but I learned something great today! THANK YOU!

[@mrpete222]

+tracyguilbeau Me too-theres always something new

[@davidrice9995]

Mr. Pete you are amazing. Every video I learn something new. When you say, you can leave now if you don't want to know this, I have to admit my heart misses a beat and I say to myself, "YES! This is why I am taking Mr. Pete's Class!" Thank you for all of your work and detail in these amazing videos. You are awesome!

[@mrpete222]

Thank you very much for the fine compliment

[@VendMD]

I always enjoy watching you videos, your are very mindful of how what your saying is perceived. For something that is normally difficult to explain(and for me to understand) you explained all that was needed to do this operation flawlessly. I appreciate your willingness to make these videos. Thank you, Ron Williams

[@krisdevoecht]

You are an expert in explaning technical jobs, nice done!

[@nodrogawson963]

Thank you again Mr.Pete I am a 70 year old apprentice and your tips such as this one has helped me a lot.You don't find this sort of thing in reference books so your experience in this field is very much appreciated.I have now made over 30 different Elmers engines but still your ideas and tips help me very much.

[@mrpete222]

Thanks. WOW--that's quite an accompliishment-- 30 engines

[@dublloyd9625]

not being a machinist i found this one of the most informative videos i have and use a well worn 12x36 atlas craftsman many times i have under cut and ruined my work cant wait to try this i thank you

[@mrpete222]

Glad it was helpful!

[@flavour404]

Thanks. When I can't get to a machine I always like to watch these videos. A) I learn something, B) makes me feel 'like' I have worked on my hobby a little - makes for a better day.

[@signorcosimo]

Dear Mr. Pete, I am a machinist amateur and I've seen all your video. Thanks a lot for your precious suggestions and let me say that you are my lathe teacher on my modelling works. Thank you and greetings from Italy.

[@thedirtymammal]

Thank you so much for your time and wisdom. I am self taught on all of my machining equipment and you have help me immensely. I'm pleased that someone has protected what is soon to be a lost art.

[@bobkelly2447]

Thank youTublicane !!!!! I have constant trouble over shooting and ruening the part ! like you said.... with this little gem of information I bet I won't on the next one ..... I got my lathe a 3 in 1 Mill drill lathe combo from Harbor freight Had it for years and have used the heck out of it...Hope to get a real lathe before I die ! LOL.... I taught myself how to use it, and what not to do by experience... your videos on how to run a lathe have been a great help ! Thank you my friend !....Bob..........

[@mrpete222]

Thank you, I'm glad I helped

[@mrpete222]

Thanks Keith. I'm doing another 2 videos on lathe dials to clarify a few things-hope I don't muddy the waters. I will use the diameter/radius terms as well as the others. You know, the term direct dials is very confusing & can be interpreted either way. pete

[@chinowheel]

Dear Mr. Pete: Very nicely done, as always.

[@legopnuematic]

Unsure if this has been mentioned yet, but the mathematical explanation for this is if you remember to your high school geometry class special right triangles. A 30-60-90 has sides of N,N Rad 3, and N2. Since N2= compound movement and we are measuring movement in parallel to N. With N=1/2 of the compound movement you respectively get a 2:1 ratio. So remember kids, what you learn can be and is practical in the real world (coming from a freshman in high-school).

[@literoadie3502]

Well done! A common misconception may be to think if you wanna half the cross feed effect of the compound you could set it up at 45 degrees (half of 90), when in reality if you think of the diagonal of a square the relationship to the side (the cross feed movement in this case) is X Rad 2 : X. Following that false thinking might be thinking a 9 degree angle gives a 10:1 feed.

[@KeithFenner]

Thank you for the refresher and very nicely done. I also have a combination of lathes created with direct and actual dials, marking it on the carriage is a good thing, as the mind slips once in a while! ;{)-----

[@TheBHoky]

I am so glad that you have posted this tip. I need to turn a bearing seat on a drive shaft for a flail mower and this tip will make it much easier. Thank you./

[@mrpete222]

👍

[@scottbenauer1189]

I’ve been watching for years finally got a lathe 10” atlas with quick change gearbox. Just watched this and set it up thanks for the tips.

[@mrpete222]

Glad I could help

[@KeithFenner]

You will do fine, by referring to radius and diameter, you can comment that the old dogs called it direct! I am glad that we are instilling a new interest into the trades. ;{)-----

[@mrpete222]

I might eventually do a video on making dials. A dividing head is required. The challenge is stamping numbers on a round surface. Note that the dials interfere on the Hardinge.

[@baconsoda]

I don't do machine work but I love your videos and the way you apply mathematics (which I did have a lot of involvement with). Super video, thank you. Brendan.

[@spilperson]

That was your best, most helpful (to me) video in a while, and considering the normal high quality, that is saying something!

[@shalayadances]

Hi Mr. Pete: Thanks for all your efforts! One small trick to align the tool post is to use a 1-2-3 block between the chuck face and tool post side, since they only cost about $10 I keep a pair near each machine. As an aside, I have checked 8 pair of the cheap 1-2-3s against a Sheffield comparator set with gage blocks and found them all to be within 0.0002 in of nominal; but the pair you get in a set are no closer to each other in size than two blocks picked at random for a big pile!

[@rollerco]

Great video , very informative and simple. I'm a gunsmith and this will help me out a lot. Thank you so much.

[@IvanDubrov]

From my little experience, actually performing a very light cut is tricky, too. First, if you transitioning from heavy cut to a light cut with the same setup, you risk cutting too much on your first light cut. Heavy cut deflects work more and once you make a light cut, your work deflect less and, as a result, you cut more. I don't know if you get the same effect on a "real" lathe, but that's what I was getting on a hobby-grade lathe (read: flimsy import lathe). Second, some materials just don't like light cuts, you either get poor finish (1018) or material work hardens (stainless). Seems like it is even worse with carbide inserts as they are not as sharp as HSS tools and insert simply rubs instead of cutting. Shear lathe tool was a real find for me -- it is simply brilliant. Was able to put nice finish on 1018 with it. Also, it seems like it is able to make much lighter cuts than traditional HSS tool (well, at least, HSS tool ground by me). I guess, you have to use toolpost grinder for less than 1 thou precision.

[@gexas38]

Geesh bringing back all the painful math memories but what a wonderful video. FANTASTIC JOB once again. I am learning a tremendous amount so keep them coming.

[@rlewis1946]

Remembering my time in trig class. Thanks for teaching another fine lesson and prompting those memories. RL Buffalo, NY USA

[@ydna]

it helps to draw a picture. if you draw a right triangle, the compound adjustment is the hypotenuse, and the vertical leg of the triangle is the diameter change. In order to get the vertical leg to change 0.5, the triangle's ratio will yield 1 as the hyp and 30 deg as the radial angle.

[@Tryin2FlyII]

This is great stuff to know I can't wait to get my " New to me" South Bend 13x40 tool room Lathe to get started practicing what I have seen or your videos! Thanks Tubalcain for throwing out what would be a fare price range on the lathe we settled on one right in the middle of what you said I'll send you pic if you have any interest Thank You Sir!!

[@ShortyLaVen]

Very informative video!! I took some machine shop classes in high school but we never learned this. I just inherited a Smithy 1220 LDT from my great-grandfather and I'm looking forward to learning. I've been contemplating taking a course at the local JC too.

[@mrpete222]

Thank you. Cograts on your snitty

[@gamingSlasher]

Pretty obvious for anyone that can a little trigonometry but the trick is to be inventive enough to apply it. Very good tip that I am sure anyone who has seen this will now remember.

[@OLDBEAR123456]

mrpete your an awesome teacher.

[@MrUbiquitousTech]

This is an excellent tip/trick! Thanks for showing us in this great video Mr. Pete!

[@CompEdgeX2013]

Nice video Mr Pete. I enjoy watching all your uploads. I think however we should rename the current conventions on dials as being direct reading or not. After having both types on 2 different lathes I understand it quite well but I suspect someone new to lathes might be confused. I'll explain in another comment as character limit won't let me here.

[@RollingEasy]

36.87 degrees gives the 3,4,5 triangle. Meaning turning the compound 5thou gives a 4thou cut. (plus if required secondary, the tool has moved across 3thou but not to be confused with simply working to achieve the finer cut in the first instance). Whatever the case, setting the angle is NOT as vital as is getting the right ratio on the indicator so no need to sweat preciseness trying to get decimals of any angle is there? Ratio is all that counts and trial and error and patience will get it.

[@kevinmaiorka5370]

I've been using the 30degree setting on my lathes for many years now but did not know or think about using a 5 3/4 degree setting. Thanks for the tip! This will come in handy building my steam locomotive in 1.5 inch scale (7.5 inch gauge)

[@mrpete222]

Glad you liked it, good luck with the locomotive

[@kevinmaiorka5370]

mrpete222 how do we contact you via email?

[@mrpete222]

Get email address from this video. tubalcain Video Courses For Your Christmas Stocking atlas bridgeport south bend lathe

[@KimbrellBrad]

That would be interesting. I am currently building the Dividing Head from Harold Hall's books in the Machine Shop Practice series. I'm making the more robust version in his milling and dividing books. Learning a lot - made a few parts twice... :-) Your videos are very well done and have taught me quite a bit as well. Thanks and keep 'em coming.

[@stanbrow]

Really learned something important from this video. Really glad you are sharing you expertise

[@mrpete222]

Thanks

[@ImStevee]

For any fine work, such as this, I usually put an indicator on the tool post. I can then see the actual distance that the cross slide has moved and "creep" the part into size. This is especially helpful when the dial itself uses 4 thou increments and the DRO is broken :)

[@abrahamd2k]

As a professional carpenter,being a newbie to machining lathe, I'm coming from a carpenters perspective and thinking a 45 degree angle wold do the trick if I was then to figure it out. Glad I ran into this video but now I'm still perplexed and need to understand the math so my mind can be at peace. Thanks.

[@mrpete222]

+Abraham Delatorre Thanks for watching

[@ensen89]

I didn't know that trick, although it is pretty obvious. Thank you! But I got one question: What is about spring cuts? Removing material without feeding in, because of the elasticity in the machine, the tool and the workpiece in the previous cut. Does this matter in such fine work?

[@russellmcclenning9607]

Thank you Mr Pete for another great video.

[@roeng1368]

Very clever and a very good video as always.

[@subieism]

Hi Mr Pete Another great video,just a question:Why not 45 degrees? its half of the 90 degrees the cross slide have to the work. Best regards from Denmark

[@mrpete222]

Yes-the terms I used are extremely confusing--even to myself. I have 2 more videos planed on lathe dials. Their graduations & their diameters. I might start using your terms unless somebody comes up with something better.

[@mrpete222]

ALORIS --distributor is MSC in the US.

[@UnitCrane514]

I used this method today on a 1953 SouthBend, thanks for this video!

[@BasementShopGuy]

I thought direct-reading dials were the ones where the amount you move the dial, comes off the diameter?

[@MrMichaeljab]

Correct that to: At 10:20 when you said "now when I feed in 10 thousandths with the compound the tool or the grinding wheel is actually going to advance into the work only a tenth of a thousandth." I believe you meant to say it would advance only one thousandths.

[@ErwinEnterprises]

Great video. Thanks for proving the trig. But, if I had less than 1 thousandth to take off I would just sand the part.

[@TJShare]

Excellent video of applied trigonometry, but it would have been better to include the math. Sin(30 degrees) = 0.5 or 1/2, so with the compound (think hypotenuse) set at 30 degrees, the tool will travel inward 1/2 the distance the compound travels diagonally. If you want the tool to travel at a certain ratio to the compound dial and need to figure the angle ,use the inverse trig functions. Make sure your calc is set to degrees and just enter arcsin(desired ratio). arcsin(1/10)= 5.7392 degrees

[@thebrokenbone]

THANK YOU MR PETERSON ! i will mark it well on the compound. would be accurate to align the toolpost with a test bar chucked in the three jaw?

[@J800613]

By using a micrometer carriage stop, or an indicator clamped on the ways. You will have to compensate for the compound travel every cut. Or stop shy of where your shoulder should be, turn to diameter, the come to your length and face.

[@KimbrellBrad]

How about a project to build a new dial for an old Atlas? Are there any gotcha's involved other than making it small enough so it doesn't interfere with the compound as it swings over the existing dial? Also, what about extending it and making a new feed screw so it did not interfere?

[@FredMiller]

I have always wondered why the compound had no dial NOW I know. Thank you!

[@Morkvonork]

Okay thank you. I think using a dial indicator on the ways pointing at the toolpost would be working for me :)

[@panaviaman]

This is cool ,why would people give a thumbs down for this ?,what a world we live in when education is not cool.

[@mrpete222]

Spiteful trolls

[@CompEdgeX2013]

When I explain it to someone I use the terms "radius reading" and "diameter reading". A radius reading dial would be the older type where 10 thou takes 20 off the part. Conversely with a diameter reading dial an indicated 10 thou takes the same from the part. Most people I have explained it to this way seem to have a better understanding.

[@KeithDDowning]

I saw this from someone else ( I forget who) but its nice to have the reminder. Isn't it difficult for some tools to get a bite out IOC some materials at such a small increment? Could you address this? Thanks Tublacain.

[@MilanDupal]

Hi Tubalcain, who is the manufacturer of the quick change toolpost at your lathe? Do you have a contact to distributor? Unfortunately the toolpost label is not readable at your excelent videos. thanks&regards from Europe Milan

[@esoomreltna]

Sir, Excellent description, thank you. One item that confused me. I was under the impression that a Dial Test Indicator gave a relative reading but if an actual distance measurement was needed a plunger Dial Indicator should be used. Do I have somethign mixed up? Thank you. Eric

[@2111onyx]

Great video from a great teacher!!

[@agriffiths8512]

I have a question off topic. I acquired a used/abused piston type tool post, I don't know the brand, and wonder if you can tell me how to disassemble it so I can clean it up. I realize this is probably not the proper place to ask this but I don't know where to go for that!

[@TheBrick2]

Thanks, such a simple but effective method.

[@leecarter9525]

Great information Mr. Pete. Thank you...

[@aryesegal1988]

Thanks a lot Mr. Pete! Been wondering about this for a long time. Thanks for sharing your knowledge! :]

[@damojfowler]

Once again you have educated me Sir...Thank you.

[@not2fast4u2c]

That was Interesting Thank you for the Lesson

[@ronaldcrowder404]

Very good to know . Now maybe I won't have so many problems of under and over machining a part !

[@mrpete222]

Thanks---I made the correction.

[@LikeToMakeTools]

Great tip! Thanks for yet another great video!

[@aj9270]

Another great video MrPete !

[@builderofstuff]

Excellent video. Thank you for posting it.

[@denisminor4489]

I wish I could hit liked more than once. This was very interesting and easy to understand

[@mrpete222]

Thank you very much

[@tamuct01]

It has to do with trigonometry. The movement of the compound is the hypotenuse of the triangle and the depth of cut is hyp * sin(angle). When the angle is 30 degrees, the depth of cut will be sin(30) of the movement of the compound. sin(30) = .5. If the compound were set at 45 degrees the depth of cut would be .71 of the movement of the compound. As he demonstrated, for 1/10 movement use 5.75 degrees. sin(5.75) = .10.

[@ErwinEnterprises]

Now lets go in reverse. If I want to advance the cutter .0005, what angle do I set the compound at? Inverse SINE(.0005/.005) = 5.7392 Degrees.

[@BMXERDON01]

I havnt seen anything like this yet. Im going to tell everyone in my machining class down at the college.

[@4SafetyTraining]

Dam I just learned something new, Thanks

[@Realtime1501]

so if i got this correct a 60 degree setting will give a 2/1 ratio, 30 degrees should then give a 4/1 ratio, 12 degrees wil give a 5/1 ratio, 6 degrees a 10/1 ratio, 3 degrees will then give you a 20/1 ratio, and 1.5 degrees a 40/1 ratio

[@FrankRuffolo65]

how about one of you machine-zen-masters doing a video on basic lathe tool grinding. (keith fenner, tubal cain?) - i've ruined so many bits trying to learn on my own. :( i can' seem to find anything decent on youtube.

[@schneidp20]

Excellent tips! Thanks!

[@MaturePatriot]

Tubalcain you have this 65 yr old man, wanting to set up a home machine shop. I studied machining in high school but never got a chance to apply my craft. I wish I knew how to find machine tools like you do. I'm thinking about setting up a shop, and rent machine time to do-it-yourselfers to do their own machining, with oversight of course, and help me have the shop I want. My older brother and I have been discussing buying a lathe together, as we would both like to have one to do our own work. But, I think we could take it farther than that. Any advise you could give me would be appreciated. Do you have a facebook page where I could message you?

[@MrUbiquitousTech]

Do it! And Mr. Pete does have a series on how to buy a lathe. (What to look for.)

[@newstart49]

I know you must be right, but I just can't wrap my head around 1/2 of 90 is 45, and so 45 degrees would get you half the distance you would have gotten if you were traveling at 90 degrees or dead ahead. !

[@marcossanchez7827]

Gran video. Saludos desde Honduras

[@tomk3732]

This is the method I know. Is there another method?

[@ImStevee]

By using a 60 deg : 30 deg ratio it results in a 2:1 ratio with actual movement from the compound. By using 45 deg, the ratio of movement would not be nearly as simple.

[@marksinden4156]

If being able to square your tool post against the chuck is the way you want to get things square, clamp a truly squared block of material which is (say) 6 inches long into a tool holder, lock it into the tool post, and set it up against the chuck face in a gap between jaws. Should make it easy to set up.

[@mrpete222]

+Mark Sinden Thanks for watching

[@Morkvonork]

How do I feed precicely sideways while using this?

[@edmundmatthews3180]

As always ..fantastc information.

[@outsidescrewball]

A question from the kid in the back of the classroom....is a hair is .002, what does a "C" hair measure, it seems to be an industry standard and commonly used...??....lol....sorry, my bad

[@WAVETUBE84]

Great trade-tip!

[@dougankrum3328]

many guys are showing thread cutting...but seldom address this issue...Thanks!...

[@mrpete222]

yes

[@gasworker3042]

Great info mrpete thank you

[@MilanDupal]

Many thanks!

[@tpcoachfix]

Very helpful. Thank you.

[@harryten]

Good job,

[@Summitperry]

Great info.

[@cryofrost7506]

You can never remove backlash completely on a regular screw but a ball screw on the other hand

[@sennister]

He has a 3 set of videos on this. Do a search on TOOL BIT GRINDING #1. I tried to post a link to it but I guess we can't do that.

[@eletj1]

Gracias, muy bueno (very good).