MACV-SOG Team Leader John "Tilt" Meyer: Ep. 61

[@TheTeamHousePodcast]

Bonus segment for our supporters: In this bonus segment, we talk to John Stryker Meyer about the weapons and equipment carried by MACV-SOG on recon patrols, including some experimental weapons like a pump action 40mm grenade launcher. www.patreon.com/posts/bonus-segment-of-42192641

[@billbates5445]

Q

[@shawnphillips4060]

Just 7uhú I'll uuu hi up u up up up to you you too you 6 I'll pop lol p0 my

[@Karamjit-si2hl]

U ever read the nasi in charge before for the legionnaires general hero nazi put villagers front of train lines moved to mid east

[@Karamjit-si2hl]

Matey said was blowing oil wells a de time

[@Karamjit-si2hl]

Undercover war oil rigs success

[@traceyowen2723]

My Dad, SFC Robert Duval Owen was the 02 in the Idaho team with 01 Lane. They were reported MIA May 23, 1968 in Laos. Never Forgotten. Good interview.

[@jayk5694]

I’m sorry to hear that. Your father was a brave man, I’m thankful for his service.

[@deanschaal8054]

We can't even imagine what that was like

[@georgestem2039]

Didn’t that happen like the day Tilt got to Camp?

[@Braylon18]

God bless your father and his men.

[@smsmoof8128]

Some of us out here never served ever, but I can tell you I listen and understand what your dad and SOG guys did/endured. Hat off to you kid, your dad has peoples hearts on a string for laying down his life, with the others. We never forget ... NEVER.

[@lisarussell8874]

John: I met you about 20 years ago at Force Recon. I had no idea I met a hero. Thank you for what your did.

[@steveduong4874]

You are one of the greatest heroes in SOG that I love and respect , can’t say thank you enough for what you have done for my country John Meyer . Little kingbee Steve D . Salute .

[@brentondudley3925]

Please keep interviewing these SOG vets. Jocko Podcast brought me here. I never get tired of hearing these SOG stories.

[@stunitech]

Damn right. Tilts Jocko podcast was one of the best podcasts I've ever seen/heard. I was riveted the entire way.

[@nitendrapratapsingh1411]

For some reason several times during the video I wanted to 'like' it again and again just out of sheer respect for John and how great he actually is yet so casual. Respect.

[@danfalen7104]

I found this by accident on YT. Thank you all for putting these together. Mr. Meyer especially. I will be watching all of these. I have already ordered books from Azon. God Bless you and those like you!

[@dixiederivatives]

God Bless to all our Vietnam Vets who were disrespected when they came home. We salute you!

[@jettsetter7]

My grandfather died in Laos on a 2 ship night strike mission (F-4D Phantom) bombing the trail 10 NW of Techepone, suu23 mike mike locked onto them before they even rolled in and they got golden bb’d. Him and his front seater were never recovered. RIP Lt. Gene Stowers and Lt. Pete Hesford.

[@njmike9784]

God bless your grandfather !!

[@briancooper2112]

R.I.P Hero's 🍻🇺🇸

[@banghoang375]

God bless and RIP your Grandfather

[@SailfishSoundSystem]

RIP.

[@CallSignWhiplash]

🙏🏼🇺🇸🙏🏼☝🏼

[@alanderson9711]

Thanks for the stories, great stuff. Spent all of ‘68 north of Quang Tri with 3rd Recon with S-2 and S-4. So many surreal moments and you had to be there -to believe them stories. SF Stay Safe, Be Well Everybody.

[@jaredbarhorst248]

God bless you, Sir. I would respectfully ask that you record as much as you can from that time as the information within is not only extremely interesting and fascinating, but it holds a wealth of knowledge as well as help us to understand just what you men went through. As you said, unless you were there, it’s impossible to understand what you all went through. And such tremendous stories should be recorded and memorialized for all time to come. Best of wishes and thank you.

[@mattb8436]

I can't get enough of the MACV SOG content. The stuff those guys did not only set a precedent for the future special forces, it was also insanity that reads like a john Wayne movie. Thanks for having him back on!

[@Likeaworm]

I watched Jockos podcast with Dick Thompson and was hooked. I'm reading across the fence and I can't put it down. I recently took the asvab to see what I qualified for in military and I am considering Green Berets or Navy Seals.

[@smsmoof8128]

@@Likeaworm Good luck to you son ... just dont let the politicians put you in a bad place.

[@josephsmith6777]

John's book is pretty good

[@tac6044]

My father was a LRRP in Vietnam. Respect the hell out off all of you guys!

[@xmachine7003]

My Uncle inserted LRRPs by boat,up the Rivers. He passed from "the cancer".

[@xmachine7003]

They probably fought their way out together. Don't know.

[@robbrooks3418]

My grandfather retired Lt.Col in the marine corps. Did 20 years in counter intelligence and was a warrant officer in Vietnam interrogated HVT’s and the stories he had were f’ing amazing. I can count on one hand the times he actually talked about it

[@CallSignWhiplash]

I chose my path in the late 80’s after hearing my dad, a Big Red One Vietnam Vet’s stories. I discovered the Military Book Club and ordered Larry Chambers books on LRRP’s. I wound up enlisting, stationed at Tiger Land (Polk) and was surprised that a few senior NCO’s were LRRP vets from Vietnam and were hardcore. I was COMMO then and turned it into a civilian career to this day. It would be nice for you guys to drag up an LRRP guy to interview.

[@desertrat1418]

Love listening to Tilt on Jocko! Glad you guys brought him on here. Absolute legend.

[@BryanNickel_Hydroplate]

Love Tilt's response "I agree...I was highly disturbed Jack."

[@Prepper319]

Omg 🤤 John is an absolute freaking legend ! The best podcast I’ve ever heard hands down !❤

[@leonardaltig]

Thank you for the info. This starts to put alot of puzzle pieces together in my head. Vietnam Vet 1968 to 1972.

[@Varlwyll]

Tilt is cool af in every interview. What a guy!

[@Stl10699]

Oh yeah. One of a kind

[@jamesgalasso]

I am 75years old i was i on rt Minnesota and did astry 2 with John plaster i kontun vietnam 1967-1970 did mission in laos to capture a truck driver . John Plaster wrote 2 books about sog and published a picture book about sog. I was the medic on the team

[@3448bw]

Tilt for President!!

[@deanschaal8054]

That should be for real

[@tacticool_weeb8450]

Make America stack commies again

[@benyoung552]

@@tacticool_weeb8450 lmao

[@icutoffmyleftwing7190]

The best comment ever written.

[@TexasTeaHTX]

The modern day “Progressives” couldn’t bear him being even a congressman.

[@AnthonyEvelyn]

I read about the stories of these "Spike Teams" back in the 1980's from Soldier of Fortune Magazine. These Teams not only had to worry about PAVN but also Pathet Lao trackers and guerrillas. Men like John Meyer and his team members are heroes! They went through some very hairy and deadly missions, often have to be ex filtrated with the help of Mike Force units and air strikes. I think Soviet radio intelligence was assisting PAVN on Special Forces deep interdiction and recon into Cambodia and Laos. The Ho Chi Minh trail should have been subject to a massive ground attack and permanent blockage.

[@AnthonyEvelyn]

@BladeArtist 205 Cant forget them! They were a successful team. Too bad the whole SOG cross border missions were compromised from inside by a NVA spy code name "Francois" who knew when missions were sent into Laos. Combine that with SOG radio transmissions being intercepted by Soviet Intel, we see SOG LZ's being monitored and fire upon. RIP to US and South Vietnamese operatives KIA.

[@robertisham5279]

No they weren't heroes. People throw the word "hero" around way too easily when it comes to these veterans. He was a "hero" to those he was with in Vietnam. The rest who believe he is a "hero" believe in the Tooth Fairy" also. Vietnam did absolutely nothing for American safety, security and freedom. All it did was claim 60000 American lives and waste the country in treasure and talent. Not to mention it almost tore America apart. He was an invader and aggressor in someone else's country that did nothing to Americans or the USA. Meyer should've known better. When it comes to Vietnam...he can get to the back of the line when the term "hero" is used. There are tons of people in society that are true heroes that no one will want a video of. Same reality exists for him as all other Vietnam vets. Vietnam was an illegal war. The US never had the guts, legitimacy and integrity to declare war against anyone. He allowed his Government to send him where he didn't belong. He was essentially an invader and aggressor in someone else's country that did nothing to the US. His time in Vietnam did absolutely nothing for the safety, security and freedom of the American people. To state otherwise is propaganda. He is not a hero nor a victim and nor are any of the other Vietnam veterans. He is a survivor. The ONLY "Welcome Home" he and all other veterans needed was to come back alive and have a 2nd chance at their lives. The 2.7 million veterans from that war did nothing to keep the US out of other "Vietnams" like Somalia, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, the Vietnam generation was in power during the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts.

[@wmyers15]

I love listening to SOG Stories, some of the most badass shit ever in U.S. Military History.

[@hooligansway]

Awesome show lads I can't get enough of this stuff 👍🇮🇪

[@JumpingJimmyJet]

Good job "Tilt" Thanks for keeping our stories and history alive

[@mdkell4261]

Thank you guys TEAM HOUSE on the podcast. Awesome. Tilt is one of a kind! 🤠👍

[@craykard8325]

That story of the NVA Colonel getting shot three times and telling the SOG operator about it is a damn moment. That is the sort of thing Hollywood couldn't write. This is an awesome interview and a great testament of history. I read all those books back and front in the Army and still have them on the shelf.

[@TheBobafett13]

Another excellent episode. Mr. Meyer is an extreme wealth of knowledge. As you both agreed it would be really great if he could get his own podcast up and running.

[@jaredbarhorst248]

Just in case you haven’t been able to stay up to date, he does now have a podcast series called SogCast I believe.

[@SupplyDaddy1]

Really great interview!!! love hearing this guy and his story. Thanks for having him on!

[@chrismoll6862]

All the respect in the world to Mr Meyer and SOG

[@Prepper319]

How do you guys not have 200k subscribers all ready ?!? So many of my friends & family binge watch your podcasts in Pakistan !

[@misterbaker9728]

Thanks to Tilt and all the others. Your stories and lives will not be forgotten

[@williamberry9228]

Thank you Tilt for the enlightening interviews. God Bless all of you guys. Really nice to hear some true facts about the Indigs and that they were in fact brave and fierce fighters. Thanks again.

[@mattkaustickomments]

John Meyer was a fascinating guest. I can’t believe the Major called him a “coward”. Absolutely ridiculous and insulting. Thanks John for doing the most dangerous work in such a professional manor. I agree that the US sacrifices in VN and surrounding countries bought time in checking the spread of communism elsewhere in Asia. And thanks to the host / operators for your more recent service.

[@Rikalonius]

New to this channel. I loved this. I don't know how it got put up on my recommends, but I watched every minute of it. I started my SOG research by reading a paper called Misuse of the Studies and Observation Group as an asset in Vietnam by Major Danny M. Kelly. I then went on to John Plaster's book SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos, and on it went. It has become a favorite area of Military History study over the past year. Great video, thanks again. I'll be watching for future content and checking out your previous stuff.

[@jasonjohnson6344]

Look for a book called “Once a Warrior King”. A single surviving Green Beret and how he lived with the Hmong and turned them into an effective fighting force. I’ve read many books by guys who served in SEA. That’s one that I’ve read more than once. Crazy stuff.

[@danofort]

Great interview, guys. Very happy I discovered this channel.

[@AlabamaPilgrim333]

It was either Tilt or the Frenchman that talked about the CIA giving them a perimeter wire that you placed in your ear that put off a buzzing sound if the perimeter was breached. For that era, I thought that was some pretty cool technology. ... for some tough as nails men. These guys are gnarly. 🏴‍☠️🇺🇸

[@jaredbarhorst248]

Yes! I cannot remember which one recounted that story, but extremely interesting nonetheless. One of my other favorite stories was the CIA agent meeting them in the middle of the jungle and giving them a “device” to sneak into one of the fuel drums that the NVA would float down the river to their depot. As they were making their way out via their exfil they saw and felt a blast that the describe as like a mini-nuclear explosion. I would love to know what that device was, and the results of what had happened and what damage it had done.

[@mark.J6708]

What these men did is beyond Heroic. Much to honor and learn from them.

[@AmerginMacEccit]

The man is amazing, one of the very best. Salute and respect. Thanks so much for sharing this story.

[@edwardrutledge2765]

I was with MACV Team 98…not to be confused with SOG…we advised RF, PF and PRU South Vietnamese troops. The PRU were scary enough, what SOG was asked to do, otherworldly. Amazing stories here, brings back ‘68-‘69 memories, including CIA assignments with PRU teams…operations the CIA developed, but never engaged in personally. Our CIA “handler” always wore Madras shorts, interesting guy.

[@JJ_SDWR]

John is a great storyteller. Excellent episode.

[@4Him4u2]

Thanks for your service - all of you, thanks!!

[@jimijames60]

My older brother was a door gunner with the 57th at Kontum. He told me that his bird dropped a lot of SF Teams in Laos and North Vietnam in 1968 and that he'd later read they suffered 100% losses. He told me they never got a mission to pick up any of the SF they ferried up north.

[@stryseven]

Fascinating. Thank you for getting John on!

[@ДејанДопуђа]

What amazes me is how sane this guys are after all the stuff they went trough.....Is that because of their SF training or something else? I mean,now day's, people coming home in most cases with some mental issues after low intensity combat and after only few months,six or twelve.These guys were there for yearssss.....doing some serious business! Amazing!I mean I am from Serbia,Belgrade,I'm 34 medic and listening these gents is privilege. I hope they are gonna find their long lost buddy's after all these decades!Sorry for my English! I wish you all the best

[@danmuchoney7164]

Tilt is my favorite podcast.

[@ericfrantzen2516]

Thank You for Your Service and Bravery, Sir

[@phillrobersen9185]

Great to run into you guys !! Look forward to watching more, Please ! USAF 70-74

[@willmerwin2226]

the great thing about tilt is obviously his stories, but such a chill and eloquent dude. could listen to him all day.

[@donfrance3]

this guy and his crew are totally tops -- Legends & History

[@adrianostafford8240]

19:57 I agree. I was highly disturbed Jack. But I was just an e4... Ohhh man... Outstanding. That was the "thoughts and prayers" of the time.

[@adrianostafford8240]

28:00 A very honorable assessment of the recently deceased s4 that he didn't quite like very well. Masterful. The man should hold a class in this subject.

[@janmoline]

My God, I remember watching the news and my Daddy, a WWII vet, growling (he was such a quiet man so he didn't scream but he had this tone, growl?, that was like quiet screaming), but he'd be furious. He'd growl, "How the hell can this damn government send these boys into that damn jungle, tie their hands behind their back and expect them to fight a dammed enemy who isn't following any dammed rules. It's murder, damn it." I'm so grateful for my Dad's perspective. He almost never (once in my lifetime after he'd had more drinks than usual) spoke of combat. Even then, he said very little. I knew, though, that his heart bled for the guys in Vietnam, and the government and peace movement attitudes shook him. He kept telling me (7 to 17) I needed to remember what was going on cause it would happen again if I didn't.

[@da_4151]

An absolute badass!! Great podcast guys.

[@zzbudzz]

The s.o.g book he is holding up at 42:46 is one of the best Vietnam war books ever written. I have read it myself about 4 or 5 times.

[@williampinner1893]

Great interview. Tilt is the man. Keep up the good work. Appeciate you guys.

[@paulsteel8739]

Thank you Guys, I'm currently reading 'Across the Fence' and have read 'On the Ground', but hearing it from John, was awsome, and I am in the UK and British. :-)

[@mikepeel437]

Love this man, can listen to his stories all night.

[@ricksilver7398]

I served with Peter Perdavari, who served 3 yrs in Nam, who was a special operator. I'm reaching out to see if anyone out there knows about him. He passed away at Ft Campbell in 1980 from cancer. I was his roommate, and when he passed, they told me agent orange ate him alive.

[@brianrezarch7477]

I watched all Jocko podcast with Tilt and some of his buddies and these guys are real American badasses !!

[@JohnDoe-dh6zy]

This interview is so so bad ass. I've studied SOG pretty extensively and still can't believe what I'm hearing. Hats off to everybody for putting this interview together and participating. To me, I think 1-0 Meyer is the most colorful soldier I've read about in the war- holy smokes. One huge biting question from your television viewing audience and I suspect others. With the insertions I never understood how they were successful in that a loud ass helicopter dropped you off. Can't you hear those things from like 1 mile away? I know there were false insertions but all the NVA had to do was assign a tracker or two to every insertion point false or not. I never understood that. Well two questions... Did they ever determine or come across evidence on what happened to RT Idaho? It just struck me as so strange to hear they disappeared immediately after insertion never to be hard from again and that nobody found the remains or even clues. Any theories?

[@FortyBurger4FSU]

John Meyer is an American hero! This is what a real badass looks like!

[@BostonsF1nest]

It would be interesting to have Tilt sit down and talk with a former NVA solider

[@louiswolff3251]

I loved the Jocko podcasts Tilt did, and this one, my favorite part is John explaining how he got his nickname, when he says I shake the shit out of the machine and get to see my name lit up in the machine, that's just outstanding, much respect to all of you, I was a cold war soldier late 80's in Germany, a 13F with the 1st ID, never did get to see any action, we knew we were there to just be a speed bump to the Russians until the Main Forces could get there, the area I was responsible for along the west/east German border they gave us a life expectancy of 8 seconds, I guess you could say we were the first of the speed bumps in the line of them, we were authorized to call for nuclear Arty rounds if and when it kicked off, not that we would've likely had time to, lol

[@SGobuck]

I don't remember seeing 1st ID on the gap and I was there 3 years. You weren't the speed bump, 11th cav was.

[@louiswolff3251]

@@SGobuck we were based in Neu Ulm, but assigned to 1/16, 2/16, 3/16 and 4/16, and if it did ever kick off we were to defend a section of the southern East German border, our life expectancy in combat was put at 7 seconds, in the 113 Fist vehicles we had 4 antennas and the Russians put priority on taken out vehicles with multiple antennas as mostly command vehicles had 4, so at 7 seconds I’d say we were intended to be a speed bump 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@smsmoof8128]

John Tilt Meyer, the craziest sane SF guy I have have ever heard, prepared, serious when its go time, just ego enough to listen to his learned indingenous pros ... I would of liked to believe I would of been like him and would like to go with him on missions.

[@SasipornEvans-g8j]

great presentation and a great history to never forget...

[@menziesdave1263]

Well done guys. I have the first two of John Meyer's books & Lynn Black's book Davem ( NZ )

[@GreenHornet159]

There is no better example of American Heroism than Tilt.

[@phoenixknight8837]

With all due respect to the legend Tilt, that statement is a disservice to the many Medal of Honor recipients. Many people have moments of intrepidity, gallantry, and heroism.

[@GreenHornet159]

@@phoenixknight8837 did not mean to lessen other heroes. Personally know many. I stand by my comment.

[@smsmoof8128]

@@phoenixknight8837 Tilt is here to talk about it and these other men that couldnt ... hats off to him for doing so. He could just talk about himself or never talk at all. I salute this guy !!!

[@LambertFick]

We need more of this, 1) Politics behind engagement, like only fire when fired upon, "THE MOVING TARGETS THAT CAN'T ENGAGE" the way it effects morale and leads to all kinds of adversity ...... The long term psychological impact and turmoil it leaves.

[@troyraines3212]

John Thanks again for speaking at our Co. H reunion

[@timothyhelf6144]

I just listened to his book on audible .. crazy to see this after hearing g his story, mind blowing

[@lastknowngood0]

Awesome Hero! I salute you Sir! Hooah!

[@randyfirst5747]

Mr.Tilt is a humble courageous patriot, a true Red white and blue American hero! This hero has the best laugh and attitude that a man of his heroism could have. We need MORE TRUE AMERICAN MEN just like Mr.Tilt. Thank you for your service and the love of the USA, salute🇺🇸 God bless you Thank you Mr.Title for everything you did for the Land of the free and home of the brave🇺🇸✌️

[@misterbaker9728]

Just finished whiskey tango foxtrot. I found Tilt on jocko and went back to listen to them all.

[@abehall1619]

Same here

[@GryphonIndustrial]

Great interview! Y'all asked some great questions and covered some good ground!

[@danmcelroy6584]

Great video! Y'all awesome! 👍👍

[@ronhaworth5471]

Excellent.Thanks Bros.

[@Sarge80]

Im a pretty simple guy, i see another podcast featuring Tilt, i click.

[@ronaldwhalen8143]

What an amazing man. Every time I get to ear one of theses SOG special forces guys they are absolutely characters .

[@simonostinelli187]

Completely agree with you my friend, absolutely amazing man isn't he??? Unbelievable stories utterly breathtaking!!!!

[@chinook191]

From the netherlands: that was an amazing episode.

[@komenglor8039]

Sao and Chao are hmong names, I would like to hear the SOG relationship to the hmong fighters fighting in loas, my grandpa also fought on the American side of the secret war in loas.

[@josephhayghe9244]

John is nothing short of a total badass!

[@angusclark145]

Thanks guys.

[@alexbiggs8131]

Thank you.. great stories

[@johnpierce4976]

Great show and great Texas Shiner Bock beer!!!!

[@0570965]

Looking forward to hearing it.

[@EF97_227]

A true American fucking hero dude, god bless you sir and thank you for your service, thank all veterans for their service

[@julianstorey2699]

Excellent interview. I have read a few books of the long range patrols in Viet Nam incuding John L Plasters book SOG (a must read). None of these books a embellished in a sensational way and have matter of fact accounts of battle with the NVA VC. There are a lot of good books written by Viet Nam veterans, Go read them.

[@dougstitt1652]

good interview good stuff Thx Tilt

[@BostonsF1nest]

“Many of the NVA just wore a loin clothe and a headband that said ‘we came here to die’ ... and they died” 😂🤣😂lmao

[@knarftrakiul3881]

BIG difference between what John experienced then what other two guy did. The NVA and Vietcong were a fierce well trained and determined enemy. Iraq and Afghanistan had goat farmers that picked up ak47s. Just about every mission john was on was equivalent to operation red wing. Had to fight for their life on just about every extraction

[@benn6239]

Admire you Mr. One-Zero Idaho Spike Team! you are my Hero!

[@pj99uk]

Maximum respect for Tilt and the MACSOG guys they were amazing. international politics interupted the 1945 British attack on the Veit Minh so the French could try to take control again of the SE Asia colonies. A shame that the US could not support the UK , France and Israeli forces when they attempted to remain in control November 1956 of the Suez Canal, if today this had been the Panama canal a different story may result.

[@toddbalcerak6253]

What a legend this guy is

[@tnvet1970]

Across the Fence was a great story and read.

[@mosin9105]

Thank you

[@MrJkscottco]

Roger that~ explains to me more about some of these guys I dropped off over the fence into Laos when I was a recon scout with a hunter killer Air Cav team, flying in the OH-6 LOH with F/8th Cav Blue Ghost. I also confirm seeing advisors, like the day me and my pilot were flying low level below the ridges just off the deck of a creek coming down of the Highlands from Laos border west of Danang. We came around a curve in the creek into a bean field at about 50' and caught in the open what I always thought to be a Chinese Advisor....you never forget your first visual confirm kia. Of course they got there revenge six months later when my LOACH was shot down in a firefight ambush with a NVA platoon, and crashed pretty much on top of them. Would probably been a POW if the helo hadn't rolled over on top of my leg trapping me inside. That's when my pilot called a broken arrow ( put it on top of us) by the two Cobra's that always watched us from above. I didn't get the rush of being in the middle of all that fire power within feet of us, I had already gone into the LIGHT! of Jesus and being shown my life's review. The Holy Spirit revealed that I died of a broken neck on impact from my ballistic plate (chicken plate we called them) coming up through my chin being the right skid I was standing out on is what hit the ground first when falling straight down. So, I learned on 01/09/72 our God/ Jesus Christ is for real....when it's your time that's it...God had another mission for me, which seems to be coming about in these days. Just as the three letters in white in the profile logo top left. These are three Old Testament Hebrew letters pronounced as Natsar. These are burned into my face from the inside out from the fire of God's Holy Spirit that entered my back while I was in prayer for a miracle healing. I felt the heat enter me, when it left all the pain went with it. This was eleven years ago, and it still remains on my left jaw.....Natsar means WATCHMAN!!!... what is a Recon Scout as I was in Nam? WATCHMAN... He is real.

[@xmachine7003]

Yes,he is.

[@DLo336]

Ummmm…….

[@DLo336]

Time to put the bottle down and go to bed pawpaw.

[@stunitech]

Tilt is a complete bad-ass. I'm glad the SoG story is being told

[@artrunningbear3599]

After the compromise they began to send only two, and individual missions totally quiet and we made our own LZs, the group stopped telling everyone what was going down. But you had no back up ever because you didn't exit.

[@mattkaustickomments]

41:20. I think you’re talking about the USS Pueblo?