Saitek ProFlight X-65F Combat Control System Unboxing Video

[@HeeshGER]

For example, they tried to integrate the force sensing stick to the f-16. The test pilots said they cant get used to it, thats why they changed the design a bit. The force is still force sensing but the main difference is that the stick can move in every direction. Not as far as a normal joystick just a little bit. This way the feeling and general use of the stick was much easier to get used to. This would've been awesome on this stick.

[@killingstone2]

Used this baby for years now! So easy to get used to, very well built! Saitek X52, had several, broke down within a month... If you manage to get your hands on a set, keep it forever!

[@einherz]

i with ya, i knew what i want and get it, and hope it stay forever with me, but i read some guys get it, and just can't use it, as they need moving stick lol

[@DaZeBoYy]

@RADIOACTIVEBUNY Actually the F-16 stick moves 1/8 of an inch.

[@Tinytacohead]

I wish they sold a version of this that was exactly the same, but rather than force-sensing, was a force-feedback stick. I also wish you could buy the throttle quadrant seperate, as right now I'm interested in getting a quadrant to use in tandem with my good ole' MS FFB2 Pro. (and I like how this one has the ability to split into two throttles) Oh well, nobody ever seems to make the toys quite right for my desires!

[@zagan1]

yeah hard to say but the stick in the rator is a force stick as well, and the F-18 had them as well but some people couldn't use them so it got changed back. I'm going to look into buying one of these sticks I think I really like the amount of buttons and stuff.

[@orlandovftw]

Why don't your fix the blue screens and driver software for the X52 series that we have all bought already?

[@RADIOACTIVEBUNY]

@TedanatorUK A lot of sticks in newer aircraft are more pressure sensitive. That way it's more sensitive and responsive. Also, let's say you've got big hands. If the stick moved, it might not go all the way right before your hand hits one of the walls of the cockpit. WIth it being more on the pressure sensitive, you can get FULL input without worrying about those things.

[@Reticuli]

Good question. There are a lot of things removed from this, like the up/down toggles. It's like they're intentionally limiting your number of buttons so they can get you buying add-on consoles.

[@DuganPanther]

@TedanatorUK That is what the joysticks in fighter aircraft are. They sense the force you apply to them.

[@Reticuli]

Didn't the Tron arcade game use one? There's also a seated arcade flying game I used in a Las Vegas casino (I think the one with the Outlaw rollercoaster) and I should have taken some hints from those.

[@HOMEGROWN99]

@TDJP123 It took me a week or so to get comfortable. Once you find your sweet spot for the force settings and the dead zone, your good to go. My reaction time is more than cut in 1/2 because the game doesn't have to wait for me to move the stick to center. Here's an example. If I'm moving right (holding the Joystick to the far right) and I want to move left. The 1+ second it takes for the traditional joystick to travel from far right, to center, and then far left is now instant using the X-65F

[@DFX2KX]

That was the original setup for the F-16, actually. A lot of pilots did, in fact, find it disconcerting... if it at least moved a little, I'd be comfortable with it. The switch panels seem like they com compatible with those Saitek instrument things... so if you've already got a set of those set up on your desk, they'll match.

[@Reticuli]

I wonder if they've reduced the quality on newer X52s. Other than a little issue with the twist axis that can be fixed by replugging it and going through the range on startup (once it's set, it was fine until the computer was restarted), I never had problems with it. Well, the throttle rotary and slider axiis flutter, but so do the two rotaries on the x-65f. And the axiis all needed deadzones and there's a middle area on the stick that does nothing until a certain point, but the 65 is worse.

[@allenwixted1992]

@EnterTheMindzi actually as far as i know they developed that stick for the f16 but pilots hated it so they jst used normal sticks

[@DjankoDK]

I have one question! When we are building our home cockpit, we would like to use the saitek products together but, is is possible to use the X-65F combat control stick together with saitek throttle controls? Some planes have a joystick for aileron and elevator controls and with a throttle quadrant like the pro flight yoke system, like SAAB T-17 trainer plane from the RDAF.

[@Reticuli]

And since when is metal expensive?

[@RADIOACTIVEBUNY]

@TedanatorUK In the F-16 and many modern fighters, the stick simply senses pressure you apply to it and doesn't move. This not only makes it more accurate, but allows the stick to be placed on your right, next to the sides of the cockpit (another reason it can't move) and easily within reach. That way you don't have to reach down between your legs and fight with the stick. You think, and it does.

[@B74c9H]

the switch box brackets are well hidden in the package , I thought they were missing

[@lightswitch94]

@TedanatorUK Its to simulate the current controls that are being implemented into new aircraft.

[@wiliam1904]

I really like the look of this stick. Does it work with Mac OSX because i have heard that saitek products don't?

[@NohbdyThere]

@fmabvideos Actually, the F16's stick still only moves an inch or two. And the movement is there for the pilot's comfort. The F22, F35, I believe the Eurofighter, and the Chinese fighter all use pressure sensitive sticks.

[@Reticuli]

I've got the X-65f set as force "F4" with custom forces even lower than default and my arm gets far more fatigued than with the X52 and a greased swashplate. Heck, even prior to greasing it the X52 was more precise and easier on my arm. At F1 and F2 (with a notch lower force on the rudder), it requires a horrendous amount of pressure. Comanche Gold and Enemy Engaged are a hassle. While my laptop can't handle Blackshark, I can't imagine being able to control the helo with autopilot mode off.

[@harveywearnes5211]

the x-65f-will not play wings of prey. how do u set it up , we try everything we know,is there a softwar e like IL-2 HELP harvey

[@TDJP123]

@HOMEGROWN99 hows the force sensing? is it easy to convert from the origional joystick with springs to a force sensing stick

[@ToadRocket]

@TedanatorUK The F-22 uses the same kind of thing. The flight stick only moves like a quarter of an inch.

[@kenjuri2848]

Dear Alex how can we find this joystick ? best regards.

[@javierriveraurruela]

the thortle looks cool but the joistick seems to suck !! it doesnt move my question is if you cant just buy the throttle and connect it to the yoke ?

[@josephglaplante]

@NeoTechni have you tried the Saitek x52 Pro ?

[@TwoPlusTwoEqualsFive32]

I can agree with you, a little bit of give is necessary. but the technology and how it senses and reacts is alot quicker then conventional sticks as there is no travel time it's instant feedback.

[@Reticuli]

Apparently they're held in place internally with some electrical tape and glue. It's otherwise hollow. There's a photo of the inside on the Saitek forum that makes me ill to look at. Just because it's metal and heavy, doesn't mean it cost a lot to design and manufacture. 14-bit pots cost like $50 a pop and hall sensors aren't cheap, either. Throttle is also too stiff. You're probably getting a better value in parts in the Logitec G940 and the Thrustmaster Warthog... or even the good old X-52.

[@Jouhanimou]

@TedanatorUK Modern jets have same kind of stick, I mean in those jets the stick doesn't move either.

[@X_CHILLer_X]

Would this work with ps3 and all flight simulator games

[@Ozgrin_thewizard]

Awesome stick!

[@fmabvideos]

The only plane that i know that does this is the F-16.But they got rid of it when pilots said they couldn't get used to it.

[@CurrentGamer]

The stick doesn't move????????

[@anthonyhershko]

Amazing review!!

[@5T34LTHcamoT4NK]

@TedanatorUK did you found an answer in does 4 mounts cuss i dont get it nether.. lol

[@Reticuli]

Because that won't produce new revenue for them like a high MSRP but low-cost-to-produce new HOTAS that has a taste of their new "pro console" line thrown in to get you buying all sorts of additional accessories.

[@Reticuli]

Why aren’t the cables on it shielded better and with ferrites along the lengths? Rudder deflects just from my hand moving near the cable. My Xbox 360 controller even has that. The cables are HARDWIRED ON ONE END. Florescent lights turned off make all the axis flip out. No wonder people have calibration issues. I have to put that one cable between the throttle and stick BEHIND MY BACK, apparently using my body to shield the cable and present a known-quantity of RF/EMI that it can calibrate. Dude.

[@asuperpower]

@TedanatorUK To reduce fatigue, apparently. I prefer the X52 personally.

[@rohultima]

you need to see it working. its force pressure. does not need to move.

[@RVCAXD]

how much?

[@CorsairRunner]

Well by saying 'do not move' i wanted to say that they had a very limited movement, such as F-16, or Rafale..

[@moomasher]

I must get one of these!

[@Reticuli]

Exactly. And you can't do Blue Angels stuff in an F-16. The Viper stick is notorious for being touchy and difficult to get precise movements. Each generation of the F-16 gets a slightly different version of the stick with a different feel and more throw. The Eurofighter and the RAH-66 were designed from the ground-up, and they threw this idea out for a good reason. Take the X-65f and configure it for a driving sim. Now compare that with the response you can get from the X52. Not even close.

[@OaprendizDeMotoqueiro]

I want it, im living in Russian Federation i dont if i can buy this kit online. can somebody tell me what to do????

[@fusionpack]

Kieson Issenguele www.avito.ru/moskva/tovary_dlya_kompyutera/saitek_pro_flight_x-65f_combat_control_system_493775770

[@haters123]

I m getting the X55. Looks like the X65F but it acts like a normal stick.

[@RADIOACTIVEBUNY]

@TedanatorUK Not for the air force, lol, but I got a student pilot's license and will most likely be a private pilot by the time I'm out of High School (Next year). THey don't tell you that in PRIVATE pilot school, though. I just knew that from TV and stuff.

[@lihp1987]

I wish I could buy this :(

[@TwoPlusTwoEqualsFive32]

Alot of modern jetliners use this tech, and ofcourse jet fighters and CAS aircraft. So obviously it works. Force is better because a human has alot more control over how much pressure we put on something compared to movement. Allows for alot more precise control.

[@Reticuli]

Two planes, one of which has never seen combat? You know what happened when the computer stopped flying the F-22 perfectly in test flights? The test pilots ALL CRASHED. Pressure sticks are very difficult to adapt flight response (as test pilots are capable of doing) in a poorly performing flight law system. You could never use one of these on a real conventional aircraft because you'd crash. It's a weird geeky idea that was pushed by some engineers who thought it up, but doesn't pass muster.

[@allenwixted1992]

@EnterTheMindzi sadly not :/ as far as i can remember i saw it on the military history channel one day. ill let you know if i can remember the name of the show (maybe test pilots) or anything else :)

[@ProblmSolvd]

Why would you make a stick that doesn't move... I tried this once and couldn't handle it. It just doesn't feel natural, the throttle controller is fantastic and I stand by it, but that stick... its rotting in my closet >.>

[@shadowblade145]

@alifie90 Yup what flavor do you want?

[@RADIOACTIVEBUNY]

@DaZeBoYy I know, but for the most part, I mean it's not like the old-school ones.

[@Scoggs117]

Not sure why he talks about the Hornet so much. Hornets(Including the Rhino) has a moving stick.

[@getous]

@Jellybeantiger The only thing correct in that message is that flight controls have a higher price.

[@cs512tr]

looks great but as usual, why cant a manufacturer (lately) make a descent F-18 replica stick that damn well moves! if so please show me and prove me wrong

[@cs512tr]

+Sami Hookings check the reviews and build quality. let down

[@cs512tr]

+Sami Hookings you have the x55 ? neat, as i was after one for last christmas and may reintroduce the idea this year ;)

[@losfederation]

The Throttle Quadrant seems more fine tuned on the X65F, not so instant like on the Thrustmaster Warhog. A slow throttling up and down, I like. But yes I'm another who likes the feeling of a stick that moves. Girls may like a rock hard stick better...

[@Jellybeantiger]

The stick that loves life.

[@j4cko56]

@routhoula on the verge of extinction? what the hell are you talking about?

[@DjankoDK]

Few comments. The X65 are only to be used in a appropriate flightsim. I will still use my MS sidewinder Pro 2 stick in most flight sims. The X65 is a totally new way of flying and dosen't feel like right for post-modern airplanes. And futher more, the X65 has too many hat switches and the rocket and bomb buttons are difficult to reach. The X65 are a solid and almost all metal stick. Quallity no doubt about that but then again, only for your F-16, A-10 or similar flight sims.

[@JeronCradle]

@TedanatorUK it's even more precise, faster and longer longlivity and durability. And it's also realistic since that's what modern jets use now.

[@allenwixted1992]

@EnterTheMindzi hmm sounds possible although the a10 sim i have (dcs), in the cockpit the stick is taken from an f16 and that's like a normal stick. i was always under the impression that they scrapped the idea (which i think is the right choice). really need a real pilot to tell us, considring all the models od f16s out by now. nice to see smart ppl on here :D

[@danieljones7082]

The joystick doesn't move? Well that takes half the fun out of it for me. Skip.

[@jwilham]

fix the volume bro

[@RADIOACTIVEBUNY]

@TedanatorUK Right now, i'm in an Archer II. I'm hoping to at least fly a nice twin or something one day. Maybe even airline jets. I AM considering the air force, though. I can think of nothing that would be as exhilarating as flying a fighter or an A-10 or something.

[@Reticuli]

You waste energy having to continuously apply that force to mantain control inputs. It also requires massive deadbands, which function different from conventional sticks where it's a measure of distance. Here it's a measure of initial force. So a certain amount of force has to be rejected, which is the definition of a delayed reaction to input. True, it's easier to write AFCS flight law and autotrimming code for it, but these are computer sims that don't usually have that (besides X-Plane).

[@mr.simulator4724]

F16 in DCS fly's very well with this stick.

[@j4cko56]

i spose that explains all the thousands of enthusiasts, developers, websites and supporters then...they dont need to bring out so many games now because there is a limit to how much they can update them. There were more made back then because of the constant update of technolodgy available. So new games were made to compliment this. Its not going to go "extinct" any time soon.

[@Reticuli]

Just in two Lockheed jets. The F-35 has adjustable throw on the stick.

[@kjohnsen045]

I'd prefer this throttle with the X52Pro stick.

[@HOMEGROWN99]

I have this and I love it. The software is very buggy on Win7 64 though.

[@MTFDarkEagle]

Force sensing: nice. But I think I'm gonna go with the thrustmaster warthog.

[@NeoTechni]

I'll stick with my Ace Combat Flight Stick 2. And as for force sensing, I prefer the stick to move. Tactile feedback is king.

[@Reticuli]

Can't agree with that. I've got one right here and wish it was another X52.

[@Donx2Pac]

well i would like to have rater the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog stick

[@NeoTechni]

@joslouis160695 Just the Ace Combat 5 and 6 flight sticks.

[@Ozgrin_thewizard]

Yeah, that really is lame. I got a new computer and even on it I can't get profiles to work, after a fresh installation.

[@USNavalAirForces]

i was going to but this buy i agree unique idea but i don't want that at least make it optional because it looks very well made

[@j4cko56]

@routhoula aaah you are so wrong :L the age makes no difference, fact is, hundreds of thousands of people still use many types of flight simulator. FS2004 and FSX are still used everywhere, as is X-Plane, if what you said is true, why do companys still make games and flight sim hardware?

[@rohangogna4457]

The force sensing stick doesn't NOT give a realistic feeling and its not a very good idea, but the throttle is awesome.

[@Reticuli]

And the MFD shows the name of the command you're pressing. Hold the clutch button and you can check commands without using them. Great feature. Saitek also really screwed up moving to this idiotic pr0 standard without backwards compatibility to the older x52 dat profiles. It's like a completely different group of people are in charge and designing these things now.

[@dyzio2206]

all modern aircraft use force sencing technologies.. f-16 SSC is moving slightly(1/4 inch iirc) force feedback is totaly unrealistic if we are talking about modern jets this is done because in extreme G forces(4-5 and above) it takes less effort to control the aircraft

[@Reticuli]

Let's see you prove it's more precise by driving with it. I would bet you can land and drive easier with a normal joystick, even if you've become more competent with the X-65f over time such that you can actually use it in some AFCS-style sims. That doesn't mean pressure sensing is superior. It just means you've achieved a level of competence, which I'd argue is making up for its inferiority. Normal joysticks can be used in cars. Try it. Ditto with X-Plane when Art Stab or XFCS is off.

[@Ozgrin_thewizard]

@DjankoDK I prefer my X52 Pro, The MFD is Much more important than a single instrument. My perfect combo will be this stick, with the X52 Pro shape and MFD, and the base mounted rocker swithces. In my opinion the X52 Pro is much more handy thanks to it's many different types of switches.

[@ytrebiLeurT]

It is really funny to hear the words "War" and "Game" combined together.So it must be really stimulating having a leg shot in pieces,or your jaw is missing,because you cant run faster than a bullet.Have Fun :)

[@Reticuli]

The budget F-16 and the F-22, which will probably never see combat.

[@Reticuli]

Only sims where the flight model is very simplified for aircraft that in real life have the on-board computers flying for you. If those computers glitch and you're using a pressure stick, you can't adapt. Try driving with the X-65f. If you can't drive with it, why would you think it's more accurate than a conventional joystick with throw? The only reason it's barely acceptable on the F-16 is because the computer does all the work. A child could handle that airplane. Buttons would be enough on it

[@MHadron]

ALMOST 300 dollars on amazon!!!

[@yoyaya007]

@HOMEGROWN99 good thing , enjoy it !!!

[@ivegot5onit42]

Terrible ...all their joysticks and other computer accessories are junk, they are aesthetically good looking but the internals and the quality control on their products are the downfall, most times people have to buy and return many of these MadCatz poducts to get a properly working device. I have heard many of the Saitek products that were manufactured by Saitek before the buyout are the Flight Sticks you want to go for, less problematic. Thrustmaster Warthog all the way ;D

[@TwoPlusTwoEqualsFive32]

I want this but its waaaaaay too expensive for the price. Literally I could build half a very decent gaming PC with the cost of this. Ebay it was 600-1000. AU

[@22raptorfighter]

looks cool but if its like my x52 it'll start going haywire after a few weeks

[@patriot5891]

Too bad that it seems all the Saitek hotas turned out to be junk...this looks like an awesome kit...not many (mostly metal) out there.

[@xmodfreak2011]

Just so you know, that's what real planes are moving to now a days. The F22 stick doesn't move.

[@mininow]

My dream combo would be this throttle unit (5 fucking hats!) and Warthog stick. TM throttles are dying like flies and i don't like the stick that doesn't move, so i'm staying on my trusty extreme 3d pro.

[@oBseSsIoNPC]

The idea was good, but the fact that you have no feel of an actual airplane around you, creates a huge problem with this stick. In military air planes, where they make use of the force induced control system, it works extremely well. BUT ONLY because you get the responds from the actual air plane. This joystick is bad ass in a simulator chair. On your desk it is utter garbage (personal experience)

[@GirlGamerDax]

That's what she said.

[@Renegade30]

I don't think I like the idea of a stick that doesn't move at all to be honest.

[@DubstepAV8R]

Demoed this at Oshkosh, was really hard to get used to in the beginning. The ability to make precise movements is almost impossible. I remember trying to take off and putting in some force on the stick, I put in just a little bit more and the plane shot off unreasonably quickly. I really have not put in enough time so I cant say its a bad joystick, but I really wasn't a fan.