Magnus Carlsen and Hans Niemann cheating saga: Full explanation by GothamChess

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • GothamChess: Hans Niem...
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GUEST BIO:
Levy Rozman, also known as GothamChess, is a professional chess player, streamer, and educator.
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[@LexClips]

Full podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4SwoYejnseYetk Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzbin.info Guest bio: Levy Rozman, also known as GothamChess, is a professional chess player, streamer, and educator.

[@neville-mladen9393]

This is so funny, where Levi and this fellow, Lex, are so stupid that they just cannot see the woods for the trees ! Regardless of whether Hans cheated on the board or not, we and the world know that the game Magnus played with Hans had a significant impact on the way Magnus played. Even though I, for one, believe Hans was the type of man and has proven to be the type of man to have a chip medically inserted into his body, I absolutely believe that is what Hans and his cheating coach had both executed successfully, but that, my friends, is a moot point. Now Levi and Lex have both testified that Hans, a self-confessed cheater, should never ever be allowed to play other GM's. Let this be a message to all GM's. If you have been knighted and are a self-confessed poedophile, then never again can you go anywhere near children ever again. And still these two stupid BOZOS just cannot work this out, I find this utterly hilarious My website: treasontoday.com/

[@jrwilliams4029]

Gotham double talk per usual: “people don’t cheat at elite level chess.” Later he contradicts himself while expounding on the ultra elite Sigfield Cup “security is 🐶 sh*t they have a little wand and that’s about it. Tight security measures weren’t enacted.”

[@conorladrigan6055]

Vgvgo

[@JohnWalshny]

ְשש

[@JohnWalshny]

@@jrwilliams4029 ש

[@ricdond]

42 minute clip, lex is a savage

[@vashumashu4359]

Start to finish, too.

[@micahpolizzi7007]

Why he doesn’t get watched

[@Henkkaassouffle]

Longer than some podcasts.

[@ddandymann]

@@micahpolizzi7007 And yet you're here. I will honestly never understand people like you who go to video's just to comment that you didn't watch it. That seems like a really sad existance.

[@GaaikeEuwema]

@@ddandymann i will honestly never understand people who react to comments they didn't read..

[@monahengramokhoro]

I've been pleasantly surprised, that Levy has been the best voice during this whole scandal in my opinion. Never overlooking the seriousness of the situation but at the same time being an empathetic human with great compassion for the situation. Kudos! Been a fan since the Queen's Gambit boom

[@connahbourton5097]

Levy becoming a pillar of the chess community, much like Agadmator. Hopefully one day he can make GM

[@seams4186]

I killed someone

[@steelmouth83]

no ways he only cheated twice in his life and it just so happens to be the two times he got caught

[@theredshirts7245]

Exactly!

[@ElanMorin]

yep. on the money with this comment.

[@mojo88bassandbourbon72]

Like Gotham or not personality wise the man really explained his understanding of the scandal with perfection here imo

[@ObiAmajoyiSrMD]

Well said. One thing I learned which maybe I overlooked was that Hans beat Magnus twice during the scandal

[@kev_mclernon_family_channe4745]

He comes in at different ways. Like sometimes it’s a real chess lesson, the range of variation in how he instructively presents a game, and when it’s kind of a commentary. So it did take a bit for me to watch regularly. I wish him continued success.

[@mojo88bassandbourbon72]

@@kev_mclernon_family_channe4745 agree

[@AlanGonzalez-ev6ur]

does anyone not like him? i thought he was really loved

[@thlee3]

well he did make like 35 videos about it

[@dan7291able]

This was great honestly, this guy is super insightful and articulate and conveys everything perfectly, You can tell he's a chess player just by his SUPER memory lol, everything he recites back or whatever he's quoting is always WORD for word lol He's also super right about this " cheating in sports is one thing, you can still lose, cheating in chess? you are GOD, you CANNOT lose.. its very dangerous

[@tropictom5996]

As many times as the word “orifice” is mentioned by Lex and the level of smirking, I suspect it is only a matter of time before his curiosity gets the best of him.

[@AREALAMERICAN]

It was definitely a little strange

[@eagle-eye29]

The buzz has gotten to him…

[@turalturall753]

If he still cheats despite all precautions, he deserves the "trojan horse" award.

[@Iceman-gm1fu]

hans getting 100% best move on so many games is impossible. him not being able to explain his games is a dead giveaway. to think he isn't cheating is just naive

[@user-xm6ro1ep5d]

It's just one of those situations where everything else aligns but the main point isn't clear, and I agree with you

[@BruceLee-qc2lm]

I mean Han's played at a tournament recently and won, after being checked by security and everything against a good chess player. Like Hans said "I let chess speak for itself"

[@billparis9624]

This seems so ridiculous to me. As if Hans couldn't explain what happened during a chess game, even if he was cheating. He has been playing chess his entire life. Even if he is not one of the 10 best players on the planet, he is easily one of the best 1000 chess players on the planet. To imagine that he can't talk about chess if he wanted to, is absurd.

[@Iceman-gm1fu]

@@billparis9624 so why doesn't he?

[@billparis9624]

@@Iceman-gm1fu Because he doesn't want to. Do you really believe he knows so little about chess that he is incapable of talking about it in a coherent manner? Or do you maybe believe he has a weird, off-putting, egotistical, personality that rubs people the wrong way.

[@Arkstromater]

Good cheaters will lose on purpose to make you think they are not cheating .Warzone cheaters do it all the time especially if they were good players before they started cheating . it’s very hard to tell if someone’s cheating because they will do things to throw you off

[@alessiovargiu5516]

"it gets to the point you feel guilty about things you didnt do, that's when your brain really goes crazy...yeah i'm with you on that" i felt that

[@tongpoo8985]

I dont understand it, why feel guilty when you didnt do anything?

[@A-A-Ron17]

Lex closed alluding to what the perfect next step would be: for Hans to appear on the podcast.

[@trucid2]

Hans needs to speak for himself.

[@dorothygale1104]

To be clear about direct evidence vs. circumstantial evidence, the common misunderstanding is that circumstantial evidence is inherently inferior to direct evidence, which is incorrect under US law. In jury trials, the judge specifically instructs the jury that circumstantial evidence is of equal value to direct evidence. Circumstantial evidence can prove a fact as reliably as direct evidence. For example, if you wake up in the morning and look out the window and see everything covered in snow, yet there was no snow when you went to bed, that is circumstantial evidence that proves that it snowed while you be were asleep. Direct evdence in this example would be if you woke during the night and saw it snowing. There are instances where direct evidence is inferior to circumstantial evidence, such as when two witnesses give conflicting accounts of a situation. In an alleged cheating situation where information is being conveyed from a hidden device carried on the participant’s person, there never will be direct evidence unless a post-match body search is conducted and found.

[@snarevox]

postgame at sinquefield, hans called it a "miracle" multiple times that he "just so happened" to review the g3 nimzo opening.. whether or not magnus ever played it is or maybe was a point of contention in the debate. idk i just think its pretty interesting.

[@zezeti2246]

If you ask me,I think Lex was onto something when he said that Hans might be more of an instinctual player

[@isoSw1fty]

Beating a 2400 while being drunk as hell while he starting in a losing position says everything.

[@joshuadalton6063]

"I would hate to have the whole world point there fingers at me" Yes, exactly, that should shame and put enough fear into people to not cheat (in chess or anything), and yet people still do it. Especially in chess, you have to go through so many steps and it is such a process to do it (OTB anyway, maybe not online that is pretty easy), you can hardly claim it was just a small mistake or "he's still a human being" or "i messed up". "He's a human being" would apply if he got $5 too much change at the checkout and didn't say anything, not weeks of premeditated preplanned actions.

[@wolfumz]

I mean, Hans literally is a human being though, that has not changed. So the statement literally does apply, and it's literally true. Murderers and serial killers and war criminals are human beings, too. So I don't think the statement is necessarily meant to absolve him of guilt. Even though these are people who have done these bad things, the freaky part is how much we share with them just by virtue of being human. Even with war criminals, we don't put them in a medieval torture device or stone them to death. We put them on trial, and hold them in jail in mostly humane conditions. I think wondering if social punishment and social shame can be cruel and unusual shows compassion.

[@joshuadalton6063]

@@wolfumz I understand and agree somewhat, and wasn't saying he wasn't still a human being so we can't have some compassion and forgiveness for what he did, I mean him being an imperfect human being is not an excuse or defence or absolution or grounds for some emotional appeal. What he did (if we assume he did) is nowhere near any level of serial killer or war criminal, but in the same way as society generally accepts to put those people to death (we do do that generally) and it isn't cruel or unusual (assuming method of death isn't), I don't think it is cruel or unusual for him to experience social punishment as consequence for getting caught cheating before and deciding to do it again (if he did). In some ways he's already lucky he didn't get any punishment from FIDE for his earlier online cheating (AFAIK anyway), but I'd say to some degree we/FIDE did him a dis-service for not punishing him when it was minor and letting it get to the point where he cheated when it grew to a major issue. Not to say that would have guaranteed it, but generally when people do things like cheating and get away with it and continue doing it.

[@jeffreymorris1752]

They use a wand that relies upon the device they're detecting being powered up and emitting. Like the cheater can't simply turn it off for the check.

[@Screen-Peeks]

I am 25 joined a chess club at school when I was 8 , haven’t played since , watching Hikaru and this guy now and learning about magnus I am now interested in playing chess again! I’m getting wiser

[@ObiAmajoyiSrMD]

Lex always seems like he needs a coffee.

[@DwazeHoer]

Or he drinks too much.

[@by7810]

@@DwazeHoer or just enough

[@vukasinbojovic1369]

A coffee and a blanket

[@planahath]

In their Sinquefield Cup game, Niemann didn't completely dominate Carlsen. Carlsen could have had good drawing chances in a number of moments in that game. Carlsen just played a bad game, Niemann didn't do anything remarkable.

[@mephistopheles858]

said a 1000 elo guy

[@BRLambert4]

I am a passive viewer of this podcast, although I enjoy it very much. I only have a basic understanding of Chess and that might be less basic than I even know....BUT...this entire 40 some minute clip is a very compelling conversation and an insight into a world I never really considered before. I also have a great deal of respect for the guest after he explains his understanding that he has a level of responsibility to his listeners when discussing a controversial subject and how he could sway opinion. To understand that he has that ability and to make the conscious effort to remain objective is lacking in online discourse and I hope more people start to follow his example.

[@katielowen]

Could you sum up the 42 min video for me? I’m not going to waste nearly an hour listening to how grown men cheated at a child’s board game. 🤡🤣

[@IWannatalkpodcast]

Chess is not a child's board game. Basically a normal GM who's admitted he cheated online a few times beat the greatest player of all time playing with the accuracy of an engine and claimed he didn't have nothing to explain. That's basically what happened, I don't know much about anything since which is why I'm here ​@@katielowen

[@zezeti2246]

I'm not into chess,I kinda understand it at a very basic level,but I liked how he basically said he has to be very careful what comes out of his mouth,if only more influential people would have this sort of thinking in modern days

[@zezeti2246]

​@@IWannatalkpodcastI think Lex was onto something when he said Hans might be more of an instinctual player,I do the same shxt,some moves just make perfect sense to me,never been a theory buffer

[@jannavratil9846]

Lex maaan that is a freaking long clip - i just realised being almost through it :D very nice, thank you for sharing!

[@moonchipss]

People who aren't familiar with chess thinks there is an element of luck. When at that level it really isn't the case AT ALL. Every move has a reason, and justification. Hans made very accurate moves throughout at every turn and couldn't even explain the basics of why he did what he did. And the performance contrast to his other games are just insanely huge.

[@chetbuxton764]

I see you are building a case, all you are missing is hard evidence on how did he cheat OTB. I’ll check back later on to read your closing statement

[@lespaul5734]

@@chetbuxton764 When the circumstancial and anecdotal evidence starrts piling up, its not looking good for Hans. Unless you catch someone red-handed, OTB cheating is incredibly hard to prove. Regardless, Hans has been caught in lies about his cheating habits in the past. Whether he did cheat against MAgnus or not might not be provable, but Hans is singlehandedly burying himself with his lies.

[@moonchipss]

​@@chetbuxton764by your logic Aliens built the pyramids because we have no evidence on how they did it.

[@SquirrelJam]

I don't think anyone at any familiarity at all with chess believe there's an element of luck to it

[@SquirrelJam]

@@chetbuxton764 ahh the imminent chet buxton, what would intellectuals do without you ?

[@clootscalhoun9481]

“Trash talking people at chess tournaments….” I’ll take “Least intimidating sentences I’ve ever heard for $800” please

[@ember-evergarden]

lmfao they would verbally destroy your woke paper tiger ass.

[@theprogressivemichigander6588]

I'm not anywhere nearly good enough at chess to tell if Hans is cheating or even how well he or Magnus are playing in a game. But my guess from others' analysis is that Magnus knew Hans had cheated previously, thought he was cheating again, and underperformed. No one seems to think Magnus played well by his own standards and everyone believes he could have held the draw if he'd played better. I think people want to believe that either there was a sensationalized cheating scandal capped with this victory or that Hans just has an element of genius in his play which overwhelmed a top-performing Magnus. But to me, even Magnus's statements seem to admit that he was inordinately focused on whether Hans was cheating and not on playing his best. I'm sure that kind of distraction has a real impact on how well he can play.

[@spencebrown19]

This is it.

[@TheGaming100]

I think when you look into how little detail he's giving out for games he JUST PLAYED kinda makes it kinda hard to believe he's not cheating or is just flat out no better at chess than someone like myself

[@mambaASI]

You haven't considered that many things can be true simultaneously. Meaning there is a reality where magnus was very concerned with hans cheating, so magnus chose a somewhat obscure opening and made sharp moves (after the typical theoretical moves) that puts his opponent under serious pressure early/mid in the game to where a blunder is very costly. I believe the fact that hans played quite literally the best moves to counter that opening and magnus sharp attacks in the early game is what really threw magnus off in the mid/end game, because combined with his distrust of hans before the match it was basically validation for magnus that hans was cheating in some way over the board. And again, its absolutely possible that hans was in fact cheating based on those literally perfect counter moves as analyzed by stockfish later.

[@stankyt5882]

@@TheGaming100 I don't wanna ever defend a dude I don't know, but say I'm extremely talented at something and that specific activity just clicks for me and everything comes naturally, I dont think I could 100% explain absolutely everything I do, all I know is that what I do is correct because it makes sense. I don't have too much attachment to this guy and I feel like defending him is a waste of time, but those are my thoughts on it. It's still very confusing for me

[@imjustaturtle641]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@stankyt5882 ​​⁠ I hear you, but Chess is very different. Because it’s all math, Grand Masters KNOW the Chess board forwards and backwards. So much so they can play it blindfolded. For Hans to be so dismissive and have no explanation after beating someone like Magnus, who is in all honesty the greatest Chess player of our time, is extremely weird.

[@Luke-wz4em]

When was this recorded?

[@tjsoulsurfer45]

It takes less than 10 secs to walk through an airport grade full body scanner. How is a 2 dollar wand going to cut it with so much money and reputation at stake?

[@Luis2Munchiez]

we’re not gonna talk about how perfect Levy’s Jose Mourninho’s impression is ?

[@zotosmich]

I came here looking for this comment!!!

[@vishalchidambaram1064]

levy has a lot of good impressions

[@heathra68]

That tingle you feel listening to Hans is very well documented. That's your brain catching a vibe it can't quite process yet, but the grass is moving and you best be prepared.

[@DarkLordofTheSith69]

🤣

[@mambaASI]

you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt you did not cheat. Just give an immediate postgame analysis of your own moves in front of a another GM. Give detailed analysis of the lines you played vs lines you considered in various critical positions. If you can do this immediately postgame in front a GM who you can't BS with vague worded explanations and claiming "luck" or "intuition", then very likely you did not cheat. And I would think this should be mandatory practice for ANY player with a history of cheating in chess...

[@dorothygale1104]

If a post/match detailed interview “very likely” proves you did not cheat, that directly contradicts your assertion that it can be proved “beyond a reasonable doubt” that you didn’t cheat. “Very likely” and “beyond a reasonable doubt” are not equal standards of proof.

[@ryanparker3_2_1]

Def cannot

[@mambaASI]

@@dorothygale1104 imo they are. "beyond a reasonable doubt" is not a perfect standard of proof. Unfortunately, we see this many times in the american justice system, where innocent people are wrongfully sentenced to prison because the judge and/or jury ruled the presented evidence to prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt". My saying "very likely" is subjective, and so is "beyond a reasonable doubt" because the standard varies based on who the judge/jury is.

[@heathra68]

We are now dealing with pretty big scandals in Chess, Poker, and Bass Fishing of all things. The scandal in poker is incredibly similar to this scandal scenario about two years ago. In the poker scandal, we have a really new, average player making the greatest call of all time, but because (IMO), the player isn't as skilled, she can't explain what/why she made the bets she did. Parallel to the chess world, cheating hasn't been accused at this level, and Hans becomes someone who either cant/won't explain the moves made or variations to the positions, but with someone who's a top 100 player, he is much more skilled and integrating the engine in an OTB scenario. He could use a cheat, and once Magnus begins to play poorly due to his suspicions, Hans would be good enough to abandon the top moves and takeover leaving the engine top line and finishing a distracted GM. If a top 10 talent ever began cheating, we'd never know, because they could explain any move and all thoughts behind it, no matter how odd or advanced.

[@Furionic696]

You sir need to give a brief rundown of the bass fishing scandal my soul requires it please, PLEASE

[@heathra68]

@@Furionic696 So I'm not well read on it, but the gist is a team that has just been destroying tournaments for a good chunk of time was found to have been stuffing their fish with extra weight, the ones they got caught with had been stuffed with extra fish filet chunks, metal weights, and metal tools. I think they had won something in the area of 500k in the last 18 months or so and had just been destroying the competition. That's about all I have, but there's some videos of the judge cutting open the fish and the opposing teams starting to react. That's about all I think I know, and some of this may be off a bit, fishing isn't really in my wheelhouse.

[@stankyt5882]

@@heathra68 that's fricking insane, 500k in cash for bass fishing? Holy hell

[@jonathanglauser5877]

Thanks for making chess culture cool again Lex. I wish this saga and your podcast was around 20 years ago when I was in high school, but I’m glad the next generation is learning the smartest game in history. I play all the time and I feel it sharpens your other skills and I’m grateful for whoever invented the game of chess. Definitely gonna check out more of GothamChess stuff, seems like an interesting and intelligent person.

[@DropBear_42]

Did you check him out?? What’d ya think?

[@John-lo4xz]

Great to be able to consume these in a quicker format. Thanks Lex. You're the man. :)

[@generalfranco9399]

Based pfp

[@EarlSmith2469]

I could tell last year Magnus was ready to pass the Baton. He wants someone to come and become champion take it from him. I think it disappoints him that a cheater is trying for some Stolen Valor.

[@kainenable]

This is crazy, I have no idea where this Lex guy has come from? He is interviewing everyone I care about. Levy, John Carmak, etc.

[@johngrear6506]

Carlson is right. The game has a major problem and it needs to be addressed. Good on him for taking a stand.

[@felixjohnston3402]

Or maybe he’s just salty he lost. Michael Jordan had a huge ego, Bobby Fischer, so did Muhammad Ali. Ever consider that might obscure his judgment?

[@user-yz7fr6kd7y]

magnus is a crybaby, just like his fanboys. It's normal that after a long time on top you start to get targeted, people will study you harder than they do other players. Same thing happened to FC Barcelona , half a decade ago. It's the same principle, just 'cause someone studied you after a match doesn't mean they are going to win every time.

[@MIDO44444]

@@felixjohnston3402 perhaps but Magnus lost to a young indian player and it made bigger news than Hans's victory ( because chess is big in india ) and he didnt accuse him of chesting + Hans had a history of cheating and there was some red flags that make it suspicious and "suspicious" is a key word here nothing is certain but my point is Magnus had merit to his suspicions it wasnt all baseless

[@wadekillman1198]

There are machines that could block all radio and other forms of signal, why not just impliment that. Then dude cant duck Hans.

[@Frankey2310]

14:02 - a modern PI-type metal detector is more than sensitive enough to find even a tiny PCB in the small intestine, let alone "an orifice". The real challenge to detect would be a small zink-air powered device hidden inside a dental implant or even just a crown. Get a professional dentist to order the appropriate fixture, then split it clean, carve out a cavity for the hardware and then put all in place with temporary glue. With any dental braces in place, this is 100% masked from metal detection. If you work really hard at minimizing the trace area on the board, shit won't even show up clear on a panoramic jaw X-Ray! CT scan of the head, maybe. There's of course the signal detection aspect, but that can be counteracted by having your encrypted data transmitted over a constantly-active ultra-wideband spread-spectrum channel, already indistinguishable from ambient noise, with the option to widen the bandwidth even more with actual masking noise. The SIGINT guys, even if they know exactly what to look at, won't be able to prove what they've intercepted wasn't just thermal noise in their gear.

[@Sinnicide]

Just funny to me as an avid Rocket League player im not the best but im not terrible, Champion 2. When at 17:45 Lex asks about the intuition vs intelligence of the player, then Gotham replies perfectly for what Ive realized applies to all high levels of play. I am currently at the point of my intuitions max capability in RL but I don't prioritize putting Rocket League first enough to get good at everything else. I get better when I play little by little but to truly Hone everything else that you have to be good at takes willpower and dedication. So overall I just think that his mindset makes perfect sense when approaching the scandal. Not saying I know if he is right but that I see very little flaws in his evaluation from my own experience.

[@christianb7125]

Yep GC2 here and I’m pretty much capped I don’t have the time to get higher than that the skill gap is just way too insane from GC2 to SSL.

[@MachinedFace88ttv]

Whats this have to do with cheating and magnus ? Play starcraft 2 BTW. RL ? COMP? Ahahaha

[@vintagetrikesandquads4012]

"Cheating" is too vague. It seems the people who ensure the integrity of the game have to explore how it would be done technically in order to prevent it. A device in the shoe seems plausible. An ear piece--although that seems easily detectable. A device in an orifice seems implausible, as how could it be used to communicate complex moves.

[@PerfectTimingProductions585]

Hans is the type to blame all of you for allowing him to play.

[@farebasedmessiah5261]

19:19 His impression of Jose Mourinho is very good!!!

[@thedude7319]

There is a story in rules of power I think. About a chessplayer from bostom who played ussr grandmaster

[@treakfly]

I cant believe a CHESS drama would take 40 minutes to explain... . . . . I LOVE IT

[@SantiagoItzcoatl]

Wdym? That's been the norm even before computers.

[@oscarmejia1811]

19:13 Closed my eyes and heard Mourinho😂

[@richmonksgtr]

This is what my life’s become: I just listened to 42:18 of chess talk, hoping to get to weird butt stuff. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@4lifejeph]

I still don't know how the dude cheated, just that he cheated allegedly.

[@MyAmazingUsername]

After 13:50 they mention it.

[@h3l3nn3tr4m4i]

Same. It's stimulating listening to knowledge people talk about what they're passionate about.

[@paypig919]

neat video levy has always high energy and that's admirable.

[@nickg8424]

when i played go, against the computer, i would lose then go back and try to find my mistake. i gained some 10 kyu. so i don't know.

[@barnowl2832]

20:00 I agree it's not a good explanation for what happened but its also possible Magnus or someone on his team was hacked. Doesn't need to have been a mole / leak

[@Crowe828]

I feel like this Hans guy would sound like me trying to explain the moves I make. I don’t know anything about e4 to a5 or names of openings lol I just started tho and trying to learn some of them

[@GeekGamer666]

I haven't really got into the podcast thing yet but listening to Lex talk I can understand it.

[@FrickFoster]

So many good ones right now

[@shannonmcstormy5021]

Ok......but what I want to know is how the heck do they video the game?, and how do they communicate moves to the player? Seriously?! That's my largest problem with all of this. In gambling, there are a deck of cards, numbered 1-10, 4 face-cards, separated into 4 suits. That seems doable from a "vibrating device" perspective, especially because you don't have to keep track of the entire game, but rather only gambling-significant events and trends. How would a chess move be communicated? How are the observing or learning about the game as its ongoing?

[@streetracer2321]

They started delaying the streaming of chess tournaments by 15min, and Niemann still won. It’s very unlikely that he’s cheating.

[@darthsebio1726]

Lex Friedman : there is a excitement to play god and getting away with it...continues building AI...

[@JSB27]

How would someone cheat over the board?

[@solips]

Is it possible to do fast fourier transformations to do analysis of vibrations in all common "perceivable device vibration spectrum" of a room in real life matches to sort out/catch one possible cheating method?

[@chrisallen9509]

No

[@jodythomas4324]

I don’t know I feel like myself and most others who have been following this want to give Magnus the benefit of the doubt because he’s the world #1 and essentially the Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan of Chess, his word carry’s a lot of weight especially when up against a cocky newcomer, American no less, who is constantly talking shit and has admitted to cheating online in the past. I still am on Magnus side but honestly I feel like he and his team/side need to come up with some pretty solid evidence of him cheating I don’t think they can make this bold declaration of him being a cheater and then that’s that and the issues fizzles out, if they don’t come out with any evidence sooner than later than it’s going to be hard to think this is anything other than the younger gorilla finally overcame the bigger gorilla and took his spot upon the hierarchy. Obviously Hans isn’t their but I could see him genuinely beating Carlson fairly, he’s so erratic in he’ll whoop everyone’s ass for 3,4,5 game plus in a row and then go on to lose the rest of his matches for the day or vice versa, he just seem like a very mental guy who when all his ducks are in a row and he’s on fire he’s probably almost impossible to stop but he hasn’t figured out how to not only get into that top tier mindset of his but also needs to figure out how to stay there as well, I feel like he knows when he’s in rare form but he kind of just stumbles into it from time to time. Sorry for the ramble, I just feel like this needs a proper fleshing out to understand where I’m coming from. Again, I’ll side with Carlson for now but he’s running out of time, his reputation affords him a lot of Lee way and good grace in this situation but it’s not some Ace in the Hole,/Trump Card he thinks it is.

Hikaru, Levy, Fiona Hill... I am so subscribing to this. Get us Oleksej Orestovič too.

[@m.douglas5406]

Wait, Lex had on Levy?! I’ve got to see the full episode.

[@TDQ_Gaming]

The future is chess cage matches. Cube cages of wire mesh.

[@Za7a7aZ]

As a matter of fact I caught my sis cheating with chess a few months ago..I know her strength and all of a sudden I find myself multiple times in serious danger. She denies but I just know..its a very awkward and shitty situation but I just know. And so must be the situation with Niemann

[@timlamiam]

Niemann reminds me of that poker cheat who gave bizarre interview explanations like "i just read him in that situation" when he was actually cheating with a phone.

[@ibobeko4309]

there was a recent poker scandal with a women, they asked her how she won and she could not explain it, she totally lacked understanding what she done and her assumptions made no sense.

[@colorsabsract7107]

@@ibobeko4309don’t mind my ignorance but is poker not purely just on luck, luck with the hand given, and luck in the sense of hoping what’s in your hand is better than those in the others? I’m not trolling, please tell me how anyone can explain poker if it’s purely on luck

[@dickdeoreo]

I don’t know what’s what in chess really, but I was captivated by this clip.

[@YaBoiJeffe]

Whoever is directing him is smart enough to deliberately make questionable plays to throw you off, but still dominate.

[@bigta1982]

Could be that they are just giving him the piece to move but not where to move it.

[@tomk3682]

Chess player cheats with AI

[@johnanderson3731]

Doesn’t it have to be an actual chess super computer? Because how do you find someone willing to cheat with you who can actually beat Magnus

[@CactusBologna-fb4dr]

Very interesting last bit there lex. I wonder how many people picked up on that. That part about…..Ya that was good, if you end up talking him into that interview you should be given the top award in your field, whatever it maybe, if there is one. Perhaps my wife could do an interview on life in the fast lane or what have you.

[@xWIREDOGx]

What’s always left out is the refocus in chess happened when Hans got rejected from Harvard. It follows that there was real drive behind his assent.

[@RavynSent]

Real drive behind his cheating

[@xWIREDOGx]

@@RavynSent 😂

[@timmy31087]

Loved this long clip :)))

[@hanvroman]

Maybe Hans Niemann give way to Magnus on that beach in miami that he cheated in the pass otb, magnus than promised Hans not to tell anyone...

[@lw3894]

How are they not related?

[@zachfarris3266]

Notice Jordan didn't deny the correlation between carbon dioxide and the temperature of the climate. Instead, questioned if we can even measure temperature and the source of the co2. The climate has always changed, but research the consequences of those changes on the organisms which need the most energy to survive.

[@liamingraham7660]

Lol! Tweeting an image of text when you're guilty is so true!

[@DimitriSovendas]

This was the best part of this clip! Burst out laughing! Well played to Lex!

[@davidbrown9920]

Gentlemen … excellent discussion. Lex, I do so respect your interviews and your character. You set an outstanding example; especially for young men. Thank you, sir. Levy, I would offer you this POV. In war/combat, the ‘other’ is my enemy. In sports/games, the ‘other’ is my opponent. What separates sport from combat is agreed upon rules. We compete according to conventional rules for conventional prizes/rewards. Thus, civilizing notions such as fair play, willing submission to rules & regulations, good sportsmanship can come into play. “If you don’t cheat, then you aren’t trying hard enough.” is an anthem for war. Okay. But then all bets are off, anything goes, and you best be ready to die on that hill. I am firmly in Lex’s camp. Honorable competition and noble sportsmanship are they only chance that our species has to progress and realize the human potential. The sobering reality is, that the outcome is still uncertain.

[@JosephLupoli]

Lex Fridman is the most fascinating interviewer I've ever listened to, to date. Lex is just so versatile, that he can (and does) interview anyone about anything. He appears to have both a passion and a gift for talking go and really listening to people.

[@sullivan62091]

u

[@ianrust3785]

Chess tournaments just need more sophisticated technology for detecting electronic devices. There are ways of detecting devices.

[@jessec314]

14:05 "...inside any other orifice." I hope nobody's suggesting banning remote controlled vibrating... uh... personal amusement devices at chess tournaments. That would be some draconian 1984 shit.

[@DeosPraetorian]

Please stop using 1984 for any little thing

[@DeePunter]

Why can't they just delay the streaming of chess moves to like 5 moves behind ? Will that help?

[@streetracer2321]

They delayed it 15min, and Niemann still won. So now Carlsen has said he won’t play Niemann no matter how many security measures there are. It’s 100% clear that Carlsen is just a sore loser.

[@DeePunter]

@@streetracer2321 im more curious how cheating is done if there is cheating, i dont watch chess. maybe clenching butt creates an input for the computer in the anus. idk

[@deadarmd]

It doesn't have to be based on the video feed. It can be based on a lot of things

[@danielpatterson9663]

Hans Niemann looks like he could be SBF' s brother, in crime.

[@liviubircea2955]

Can someone explain how can you possibly cheat in chess ? Still dont understand how he cheated.

[@ujmm]

Chess engines play better than any human. So he could have had a device connected to chess engines. The type of vibration could tell him the optimal move. People have been caught doing that before, but not at this level.

[@elartedepararte]

Just need Hikaru on the podcast to finish the saga

[@tylermanning4321]

Is this Lex's new studio? Or Gothams?

[@phinney2735]

Is Lex drunk?

[@JohnDoe-pc3jk]

Arent we all?

[@kevinle5460]

@@JohnDoe-pc3jk ah yes John Doe, drunk we all are, on the ecstasy of life

[@Lordgorbon]

What’s with the 3 sea shells in the bathroom thing?

[@buttercupcoffee5972]

A reference to Demolition Man with Sylvester Stallone, Sandra Bullock, and Wesley Snipes.

[@Furionic696]

Man I cannot imagine what it's like to be alive and not understand that reference lol

[@deadarmd]

​@@Furionic696 he doesn't know how to use the three sea shells. *laughter*

[@podunkest]

So weird, but awesome, seeing Levy here. It's like two universes I have separated in my mind collided.

[@OwenL2020]

I feel the exact same. Was trying to explain this scandal to my wife and wanted to see if Levy had done a long breakdown. Pleasantly surprised to see him here. Great interview. Great questions from Lex.

[@AntonAdelson]

Levy is also Russian, right?

[@OwenL2020]

@@AntonAdelson Could be wrong, but I thought he was Polish.

[@petercohen3966]

Definitely get Danny on the podcast.

[@kainenable]

That was an incredibly convoluted way of getting Magnus on.

[@fauzanibrahim6416]

He did admit to cheating to cover it up, he just said he didnt use what others suspect him of. But 100% accuracy raises eyebrows when i do it. And hans level of gm to magnus or gary is similar.

[@LIMBOtheInternetguy]

clip ???? 45 min ???

[@richardnogginiv]

Just have future in-person tournaments in airports or prisons/jails. Have everyone go thru one of those contraband screeners. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@roveriia6334]

Cheating is PR for chess. This is the best advertising for the sport. Online chess tournaments without the expectation of cheating is ignorance. Cheating sells and is accepted by adults but bad for children. Think of all the baseball cheating or a soccer player writhing in pain then getting up and sprinting down the field. Very sad representation of humanity but then truthful so that is the game we have to play.

[@jrgussngussn7093]

We were five miles outside of barstow... when the chessboard began to kick in...

[@Freestyle80]

If Hans Niemman had a better personality and reaction after the win no one would care this much imo

[@anderandersson5229]

I was really interested in chess as a child. My dad taught me. Ive never won against him but it still felt good playing against him. In kindergarten and class 1-3 the teachers did not stand a chance against me. Neighbours came down and knocked on the door asking my mother if i was free to play. At some point, i was at the after school thingy, dont know what it called, like extra school but just for fun. There was a new guy there, ”taking care of us” playing chess amd ping pong and stuff. We played a game and it was totally something else.. i had nothing against him. He just said ”hmm” sometimes and moved a piece. I got destroyed, game after game. He then said, if you think im good you should play ”Peter”. I think ive played maximum 10 times more now in + 20 years. No i played once more in a highschool tournament and i won the freaking whole thing 😊

[@adelinaquijano1083]

I don't know what is my position while I'm sleeping... Then I don't know how to process

[@tims7250]

No matter what there's big corporate money against Hans which nobody can win unless you got more money. Only have to look at who was brown nosing with the big wigs to understand which side of the fence the money was on 🙄 no one can legitimately win against money, it's the way it is. Unsportsmanlike I know but that's how it is 2020+

[@AlexRochette]

What’s the three household thing?

[@Thatotter223]

Mom dad grandparents ? Idk

[@paulthomas5860]

I bet Dad divorced twice, two stepmoms & two sets a f step siblings (the way he laughed )

[@raymondwandell8880]

No idea if he cheated or not but this story has put Chess in the spotlight. I'm probably not the only one who started playing because of it.

[@MyAmazingUsername]

You were just looking for an excuse to use anal beads.

[@AIRFGC]

42 min clip nice I listened to every second

[@Rene_Christensen]

Have Harry Mack on. Would love to see you pick his brain.

[@daniflesariu4584]

This guy had one job, to answer the question from 36:05 and he failed.

[@adelinaquijano1083]

he not mention