Noctua Never Had a Chance | Fan Showdown S2E1

[@MajorHardware]

Use my special link www.privateinternetaccess.com/MajorHardware to get 77% discount and 30-day money-back guarantee

[@sinformant]

😫nooo you are limiting fan speed! My design im working on was dependent on low mass so it would run at higher speed. If you slow it down it probably wont work.😔

[@LeoInterVir]

Do Both: 1) give results at 1200rpm 2) give results for full speed Why Both: 1) Some people purposely run fans low speed. 2) Some people run fans full speed or close.

your videos are WAYYYY too long for the amount of actual content. You drag things out and go on and on over the same thing again and again then ad unnecessary pauses, Jeez man get to the point, I'm tired of pressing fast forward.

[@Psittac20]

Should retest the board limited at 1200rpm too

[@polychoron]

@ Sounds like a personal issue. My personal issue is KZbinrs talking too fast. At least this guy is easygoing enough that I don't need to rewind 3 dozen times to absorb the info. Either way, the issues are ours, don't try to nudge creators into becoming something they aren't.

[@Bamfhammer]

I dislike the rev-limiting at 1200 RPM. And this is why: TLDR: A 1200 RPM limitation leaves the ideal fan blade rake angle as a simple math problem. The air speed leaving the fan is an equation with 3 variables. Prop diameter, prop speed, and prop angle. By fixing 2 of the 3 variables, you can then solve for the 3rd variable. This limits the creativity of the fan designs. Leaving RPM unlocked allows people to experiment with multiple variables and try out some unconventional blades. Longer: The 1200 RPM limitation is one of efficiency at a certain speed. Different blade profiles/angles of attack/rake angle will have different efficiencies at different RPMs. Building a great fan, is a fan that moves the most air at its optimal RPM, or silence optimized RPM. For some fans, this might be higher, for others, it might be lower. Limiting the RPM, however, limits the fan's potential. Take the Boomer for example. That likely can spin much faster than a 7 blade fan because of its center of mass and lower air resistance by having fewer blades. It probably requires a higher RPM to move enough air to cool as well as a fan with more blades, but by limiting the RPM, we are limiting it's capabilities. By allowing the fans to spin up to the max RPM of the motor, you are allowing the fans to move the maximum amount of air determined by their blade profile and their weight. This also allows submissions to be tuned by weight and drag of the blades, etc. Please leave RPM open.

[@TheFugg]

this really needs to get to his attention

[@BenQuigley]

THIS

[@bluesap7318]

69 likes

[@Bamfhammer]

@@bluesap7318 nice!

[@ezg8448]

Great point, also want to add that 120mm fans in a PC typically spin at 1500 - 2000 rpm and testing should include typical conditions and not just low noise conditions.

[@vincentpham8449]

I reckon the rpm limit is counterintuitive because mass, weight distribution, air resistance should all be a part of design considerations.

[@oLaudix]

But at the same time people tend to keep RPM as low as possible to keep fans quiet.

[@evenrik_2214]

@@oLaudix when gaming it doesnt really matter anyways. For example for like overclockers, they wouldnt mind as much as long as they get the best cooling possible for their computers.

[@skirata3144]

@@oLaudix If that’s the point it should be limiting the noise level and not the rpm.

[@sivansharma5027]

All those factors usually determine the RPM, thus a fixed rpm would allow those factors to be accentuated instead of balancing out. A fixed RPM would actually encourage the unique characteristics in each design rather than dampen everything

[@Krobar]

Back in the Athlon XP days I had a CPU cooler with an 80mm fan @ 6800 RPM. Think Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOOO!

[@juanfromfiesta5479]

Hey, I'm Josh, the designer of the uneven fan! I'm sorry about the thin blades, this was my first 3d model I've ever seen printed or even completed. While designing it, i kind of just eyeballed a lot of the non-essential measurements. I'll do better next time if I get a chance.

[@NanescuRadu1]

You did great my dude, keep it up!

[@boardvision4965]

Always learning my G, mad respect

[@phylwx]

Starting strong! Good work!

[@remingtonruger]

wow first design I wish I had that kind of talent, I am way too anal retentive and have to measure everything from pr-existing fans, even stuff that will not make a real difference... My first design was using master control from hack smith and it was a simple cube like so many others... But instead of having the x, y, and z printed on the faces it had viking ruins...

[@aliciaoverturf]

Personally your already better then me. I got a 3D printer but my internet sucks so bad it doesn’t work just logging into the server to link the devices. So it is still in the box sadly. Props to you for doing what I can’t.

[@ALifeOfWine]

Forget rpm. We need noise normalised thermals. Temps at 10, 20, 30 and 40 decibels. RPM doesn't matter, it's how's well the fan cools at what noise level that matters.

[@Debopimps]

Exactly

[@iliandocx8392]

10 db and 20 db are gonna be impossible i think atleast, this is because if you increase the db by 10 you double the sound output whether you are talking 50-60 or 20-30 So 40 db is actually 8x louder then 10 db

[@iliandocx8392]

@Yousef Mansour its mainly the pitch that matters though, you dont wanna sit next to a pc that whines like a server rack all the time do you?

[@ALifeOfWine]

@@iliandocx8392 Yeah lol I wrote this out as just a way to get people's attention towards noise normalised thermals. I feel it would've had less impact to say "Start measuring at each fans lowest rpm level and take a new temp reading at every single dB increase".

[@ALifeOfWine]

@@iliandocx8392 I don't see any reason why frequency couldn't be measured alongside loudness.

[@Ganondurk]

When you limit the RPM, you encourage senders to send in fans that spin at or lower than 1200 RPM at full whack, as those fans will make the most efficient use of the motor's power.

[@coder0xff]

Not efficiency exactly, but you're right that they'll have access to more power.

[@KTMcaptain]

by limiting the RPM you're giving an advantage to certain fans over others. The fan motor can only output so much power so a lower rpm fan will be closer to using more energy from the motor than a higher rpm fan would

[@____5837]

I'm guessing his point is its easier and better to design a fan for a given rpm (and then in real life production adjust the motor power to match), then it is to design a fan when you have no idea how fast it'll spin

[@KTMcaptain]

@@____5837 Motors power output is based off torque and rpm. By limiting the rpm he's basically making the fan that can draw the most current the highest powered fan. . A fan that will draw more current won't be able to hit higher rpm so it evens out when rpm is unlimited except by the motors power output (ability to maximize work)... but if he sets all the fans to the same rpm then he's not inputting the same amount of work into the fans anymore. It was plainly evident when the fan that has dominated everything all of a sudden sucked (or lack thereof). . It's fine to test them all at different fan speeds as well as full voltage, but that's not what he's doing.

[@____5837]

The thing is, noctua when designing a fan don't first have a motor and then see how fast the fan can spin. They decide they need a new 2000rpm fan, then they design the blades. Then they put it on a variable motor to see how much power is required to spin it at 2000rpm, then they design or buy in motors which provide the correct amount of power. But anyway I personally think he should do neither. I think he should run all fans at whatever speed produces 40db as most people care about performance vs noise when buying a fan (hence no one runs at full speed all the time)

[@knifeyonline]

@@____5837 but I would rather buy a fan with the most cooling per decibel at ~30db, since that's where they will be most of the time. Hell for case fans, straight up measure CFM... but apparently we aren't designing case fans, sad face.

[@NicolasChapadosGirard]

No competition is fair. Like if you put two people in harmwresling match with 200pounds of difference... Or arm length or size of arm muscle... Nothing can be perfectly fair

[@IDn0tfound]

Can someone design a fan with whistles on the blades (like the Nerf throwing rocket)? You know, for the meme. :P

[@ErilynOfAnachronos]

Nice! 👍😂

[@TheClassyRacer]

No they needa make it sound lile a ww2 stuka dive bomber

[@emmanuelwestra6524]

What a legendary idea

[@vttklazer]

Def putting that in the bosses PC.

[@pyro1324]

Ever since watching the first episode of season one that has been on my mind, and I finally got a 3d printer so I can design a fan that reliably whistles. I might be able to have it ready for the next episode.

[@quix6253]

My dumb opinion is if you design a fan that can spin faster it’s a mass speed balancing game the rpm limitation is a restriction on creativity

[@chagmenlietons3606]

Might have to bolt it to the table at that point

[@sinformant]

100% agree! My idea im working on is dependent on being low mass and spinning at a higher speed to work.

[@insanecamo]

We all have the same dumb opinion I guess

[@The_Ballo]

If you limit anything it should be watts

[@operator8014]

Mass has effectively zero effect on speed.

[@LocutusH81]

This test should be noise normalized, not rpm normalized.

[@EveKitty08]

Agreed. As a PC builder, I care about the performance to noise ratio, not the performance to rpm ratio.

[@8lack8bird]

both

[@dmytrotkachoyv]

If it was a conventional fan showdown, then yes. But clearly, as stated in the video, 13 dBA with a lot of high pitch noise will perceive differently then 13 dBA with less high pitch noise and more low pitch.

[@themagiceye6723]

Yeah agree, or perhaps both. No harm in having more data points

[@poisonedyoyo1]

@@themagiceye6723 It would be better to add that data point than to change the scoring structure drastically as it will be difficult to compare new results to old ones without running the tests over again.

[@TheStigma]

Regarding methodology - There are really only 2 factors that matter: Temps and noise. The fan with the best temp/noise ratio is the best design. The RPM is a fun measurement to have, but it's not really relevant if the design compensates well for the noise it makes. The only issue in practice is that it can be hard to get accurate desibel readings considering margins between fans can be small - butI would at least consider including this Stat even if it's with a high margin of error.

[@illdeletethismusic]

i"d say a third factor, which obviously is related to those two, is power draw

[@teslatrooper]

@@illdeletethismusic fans draw so little power it doesn't really matter

[@CommanderChronicles]

what about static pressure, cause arent noctua fans designed for high static pressure as well as low noise.

[@TheStigma]

@@CommanderChronicles Static pressure would be an important third factor if you wanted to get a full image of the fans performance across all types of scenarios, but that would be very hard to measure meaningfully without lab equipment, so I don't think it is realistic. In these tests the static resistance is fixed (ie. the aircooler-tower). That seems reasonable since aiflow-optimized case-fans are rarely the ones that you need to puah hard. Radiator and cooler fans have much higher demands on them, so that's usually what's more interesting. Noctua produces fans optimized for flow, pressure and ones that balance both aspects. So do lots of other companies. You can squeeze out a good deal more performance if you design it to be specialized in one or the other. Pressure fans tend to have more blades with sharper angles of attack - compared to airflow fans (ie. case-fans). The fan he uses to test here is kind of an all-rounder actually , but it does perform more like a pressure-fan than a flow-fan for sure.

[@blacklion79]

But with a twist. I'll prefer 25dbA fan which gives me 80С (say, 60C delta to ambient temp) to 50dbA fan which gives me 40C (20C delta) any day. I prefer totally silent PC (at night, with closed insulated glazing windows) which runs 80C full-load to noisy which is cooler.

[@MLDeS100]

Oh snap, we got scientific. Idk about the rpm limit because some of the designs like that one bladed one relied on increased rpms due to weight reduction but idk.

[@Krond2009]

I think noise-normalized would be better; ie setting them all to something like 40dbA

[@LaughingOrange]

A manufacturer could easily design a faster motor, so rpm normalizing makes it more about the pitch of the blades than the weight, which I think is a good thing. Noise-normalization is likely the most fair for determining the best overall fan design as it gives an advantage to silent designs.

[@randalanderson4722]

I'd like to see max rpm and 1200 for cooling, show the efficiency and scaling of the designs with the speed change.

[@planbuildrepeat8264]

Or don't limit the rpm but measure the power draw

[@knifeyonline]

pretty sure a manufacturer can't just design a faster motor, it will just be faster with less resistance. They can only make a faster motor by making it have gears which isn't really an option for a case fan?

[@ethanharvey3111]

I'm with the crowd here, limiting the RPMs seems not only pointless but it limits the possible creativity drastically.

[@DampQuiche]

How does it limit creativity? Now you have a target to adhere to, instead of just hoping that the motor can spin your fan at anywhere near the designed speed. Now the emphasis is on creating blades that move air well and keep noise down. If anything it expands creativity as the goals are clearer.

[@marcus4424]

@@DampQuiche, but the goals have always been clear, get the best delta, best CFM, and lowest noise. Adding and RPM limit actually lowers the possibilities of design focus and removes specialization.

[@Mordenor]

@@DampQuiche Limiting RPM gives no incentive to reduce noise. Noise may be reduced as a consequence of the lower RPM, but is not a design parameter since it isn't measured, unlike noise normalised testing

[@DampQuiche]

Hi All, So i have read through all the comments about RPM normalisation being a bad thing and responded to a few and it strikes me that there is a fundamental issue with this and that is what are we actually expecting from James, do we want super science or do we want Dr Evil fan fun? I believe there is a happy medium to this. If a fan were being designed by a manufacturer the design perameters would be stringent, cost of materials being a major factor. So no true fan designer would design a heavy fan as it would take way more material to make and reduce margin. Then you have noise, not just the noise level but the whole acoustic signature of the fan, is the noise pleasing or does it sound like a pig farting through a reed valve? Just measuring volume doesn't work as the noise characteristics are quite subjective. Most users 90% want quieter performance with still decent cooling potential. If you dont care about noise you go out and buy a delta fan. They work by beating the air into submission and i dont think that is the goal of this show. So then you have to look at what a fan design is truly about and that is performance at an RPM that most users will set to keep the noise level down but the air flow up. So now you have the limit it doesn't matter how much power the motor pulls to achieve it, what matters is a solid design that keeps material cost down and has a pleasing noise. If none of this is acceptable as the comments suggest then we need to solidly define what it is that we are expecting to be tested, but be aware James is not a scientific institute. He does not have an anechoic chamber to monitor an acoustic profile properly. IT IS MEANT TO BE FUN, with an element of competition.

[@kekkek7888]

@@DampQuiche I have literally never in my life cared how loud a computer fan is. I don't know anyone that cares either. Unless you're running your fans at +80% of the speed you will be fine.

[@barevids]

Love it, but: - PLEASE dont limit RPM - Reprint the boomer - Allow the boomer to run at its full speed

[@BMPPMan]

Honestly I'd say do that stuff but also rerun the other fans from this episode

[@FGarray]

Didn't expect to see barevids here!

[@damagepy]

Someone should try to design the loudest possible most annoying fan that whistles/screams ! :)

[@dethlife111]

best idea

[@KyleP133]

Bonus points if they call it "The Stuka".

[@janekkouril476]

Just a fan motor powered air raid siren

[@xeigen2]

Jericho Trumpet!

[@Sitzkrieg]

those old AVC CPU fans for lga775 boards were obnoxiously loud in any case

[@cun1806]

noise normalized testing? would love to see the results when all of these are normalized to around 40dbA.

[@ImSwaqzHD]

Good idea man!

[@TheElipsus]

I concur noise normalized, every cooler tests should be done like this, otherwise, 90% of the time a test conclusion is "well it's cooler,but make more noise" , or the opposite (except with corsair, but because they don't know how to make a cooler)

[@tbard]

This but I'd go for a much more silent level than 40db...that's a LOT

[@fbandito]

Limiting RPM seems like a bad idea. Maybe measure watts in combination with air flow to evaluate efficiency

[@planbuildrepeat8264]

I like that idea

[@joel89039]

I think he should sound normalize them! Performance at 45db for example. Then also max speed

[@EvanMJones]

Wattage would be a good measurement to have.

[@The_Ballo]

Agree 100%. Limit load, not RPM

[@budgetking2591]

@@EvanMJones Sound normalizing is the most logic thing, most people are not looking to save 1 watt on fanpower.

[@Z71GALLA]

I wouldn’t limit the rpm. Letting them run as fast as possible would be best.

[@broklond]

Yeah, emphasizes the differences in cooling capability more

[@bernhardjordan9200]

All funs should be run with the same power and not the same speed. That way a courser fun with more blades will be more efficient than a shallower one because at the same speed the power output will be different.

[@joel89039]

I'd like to pick a decibel limit and test them all there. 45db or something

[@emmanuelwestra6524]

Agreed. How about a sound limit?

[@emmanuelwestra6524]

@@bernhardjordan9200 Agreed

[@karlstenator]

You should really re-print The Boomer, not very fair otherwise.

[@blahorgaslisk7763]

Only reason to reprint the boomer I can think of would be to see if the noise changed when the fan is better balanced. It wouldn't make it perform any better in the airflow test with the RPM limited the way he is testing now. Personally I think it was a bad choice to limit the RPM. After all there are really only two things most people care about. One is maximum performance and the other is low noise. If you measure performance at a limited RPM but noise at max RPM then you turn everything on it's head. If anything you might try measuring performance at noise normalized RPM, but I still think it's better to test at max RPM for both, and then possibly add at what RPM the fan hit a certain noise level. But that's just my personal thoughts and he can do it however he want's to. I'll still come here to see what interesting designs people has sent him.

[@_Zdex007]

@@blahorgaslisk7763 even if he don’t spin all the fans at their maximum, if he include the max rpm for each fan it will give an idea of how good they are.

[@remingtonruger]

I was thinking that too as soon as he said one layer thick...

[@questcoast]

Mistakes will be made - remember the mirrored one? He should just make a separate episode with all "failed" (mirrored, etc.) prints in the end of the season.

[@remingtonruger]

@@questcoast I would love too see that, great idea wish I had thought of it...

[@jaredj631]

Don’t limit RPMS! the mass/resistance to rpm relationship is part of the appeal

[@xalenthas]

Personally I'd say noise rather than RPM should be the limiting factor.

[@Sailor376also]

I would vote for cooling ability,, air movement against restrictions inside a case. Then again,,, My desktop case,, when it gets busy,,,, the noise is like living next to a runway. And not the kind with pretty women and funny clothes.

[@AtomiK-XIX-Bit]

hay cj

[@ireallyreallyhategoogle]

Power consumption should be the limiting factor.

[@FakeMichau]

If you want to limit anything then noise normalized would be the way to go.

[@cannesahs]

This!

+1 on this. Because for the most of us, the real tradoff in cooling solutions is noise vs cooling performance.

[@matejvrabel]

This indeed

[@xeigen2]

Exactly. RPM is just a byproduct of either trying to hit noise targets or acceptable power draw for the motor

[@FakeMichau]

@@xeigen2 I was also thinking that power draw would be nice BUT if he wants to compare them to noctua that is silence oriented then noise normalized would probably be a better option.

[@dokenboken5542]

Limiting RPM can nullify some of the design choices. Maybe have a limited and non limited test.

[@Awoods22]

I like this idea because a lot of people like the idea of uncapping the rpm, but this allows some designs to have a chance. Might be a lot of testing though

[@MauricioRPP1]

Two sets of tests would be double the production time. I think just adding the "max RPM" information with the CFM and sound info would suffice. Keep the test and leaderboard fixed at 1200 but show the max RPM each fan can achieve

[@ARVash]

@@MauricioRPP1 if you limit the max in testing you're going to get results that are useful to no one. Genuinely nobody arbitrarily limits fan speed.

[@TheFrog4u]

Absolutely! Now you have to optimize for 1200rpm, while before you could be more creative and design a fan that works best at 1800 rpm for example. Thus was going to suggest the same, while scrolling to the comments to see if someone else suggested it. Alternatively at least test at two different speeds - but actually like the limited and unlimited idea even more.

[@serifbold5974]

maybe normalizing for noise levels would be a decent compromise?

[@cloudyclayton-youvebeengam7614]

The wave looks unreal when its in motion, such a satisfying watch

[@Tigermoto]

Came here to type that exact comment. Such a beautiful fan.

[@Automatic-Diaphragm]

I would love having a 2 hour version of various fans just sucking smoke in :D

[@Pro-Tayto]

Imagine an rgb version of the wave, like the corsair LL fan style rgb

[@Krobar]

It reminds me of waffle cut fries.

[@exhumedlegume8870]

It looks like a ripple when running.

[@rjzmanz]

When I saw the "Wave" fan, I immediately thought this person was eating some Ruffles while designing their first fan and had the inspiration to make their second one 🤣

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

the asymmetrical one is cool. Also thank you for going into detail about the history on some of these design inspirations. I never thought I'd be so interested in blade designs but I am.

[@Pasquizle]

noise normalizing is the way to go, RPM normalizing isn't a useful metric.

[@brian770]

somewhat agree, run them all at 100%, either they are good enough or they are not.....some are willing to ignore noise in the pursuit of cooling. others are not.

[@manicdan481]

agreed. run the noctua at like 80% and find that db, then match the rest to it. That way you get a bit of headroom for those that can run quieter, but we expect nearly every submission will be probably using less than 80% power draw to reach the same noise level, but who knows, maybe they win anyway.

[@Pasquizle]

​@@brian770 it doesn't really matter if you care about the noise or not, because if it performs better when it's at the set db, if you crank up the noise it'll only perform even better

[@brian770]

@@Pasquizle exactly, crank it up to max rpm and see what it can do with no restrictions. There is a big market for quiet fans, but also a big one for max proformance, for me, noise isnt a problem.... Thats what headsets are for, as long as its the coolest possible.

[@StarlaBelrose]

@@brian770 You're lowkey missing the point, because performance scales with noise so by having them all preform at say 30dB you can compare one fan to another and determine how it preforms in respect to another. While having them go full speed isn't as good for that. Like noise isn't an issue for me either but noise normalise helps figure out objective performance.

[@p3chv0gel22]

I think, at least the Acceleron as the Nr1 from last season should be retested under the new conditions (Lets be real, i just love that Design)

[@XennialGeek]

Was about to post that as well. If He changes the conditions he should retest the previous top 3 or 5 fans to have comparable data with season 2.

[@bassmann4463]

How about testing last seasons top 5 with this seasons running Spec’s to see what the champions baselines are.

[@the1exnay]

I think he should do that as part of the season finale for this season, but not before

[@dominiklehn2866]

I really think all fans should be tested again with all the rule changes till now,it would just be unfair not to

[@scouteye9282]

5:12 Is where real "Video" starts. You're Welcome..

[@benni2294]

"The boomer had an almost pleasing sound" 10:14 **BRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrr

[@Te0L0ser]

Sounds like a lawnmower a few houses away

[@dontimberman5493]

Lol A10 has that same appealing sound that’s why it’s been around so long.

[@talananiyiyaya8912]

Different fans operate best at different RPMs. Should really test a range, going higher than 1200 even.

[@TheGingerbrett]

What about a different rpm next season for a new standard then?

[@thelazarous]

Ideally he could start every fan off at 800, then add an additional 400 RPM at each step and seeing what temperature it levels off at. That's probably the best way to do seeing as he's now using an air cooler, as air coolers are far more reactive and won't take that much additional time.

[@bballer4life24]

Yeah I like the idea of doing a range of 3 rpms (low-med-high), then taking the best result for each fan.

[@Skulljeep00]

A variable vane style fan blade would be the exception to this i believe.

[@CrashM85]

Maybe test the fans at 1200 and at max and avg the 2 scores?

[@G4BR13L_]

Instead of rpm, i would like to see dba normalized, it would reward the best performance by dba, imho it's the best way to measure the quality of a fan

[@carbon_wavelight]

I really love the production value you've put into this new season. The B-roll, music, and pacing are really engaging. Can't wait for the next one!

[@300Z31]

The smoke going slowly across the table surface, and then being suddenly sucked through the fan is so satisfying to watch. I could lose so many hours watching JUST that lol. Great work.

[@thedesk954]

The wave really got a nice «hypnotic» look when it is spinning

[@abrafkalif]

I understand your idea about 1200rpm to compare. But i would like to see max speed as well. I think that gives a better comparison. To bigger fans, how the speed/mas has influence to temp. So normalist at 1200rpm and max.

[@Lp0onfire]

I have really appreciated watching where your channel has gone since your water cooled air cooler went viral. The fan showdown has been really entertaining so far.

[@re-gaming3913]

I'd say that noise normalized testing is a better representation of how efficient a fan is.

[@Nitwon]

Don't limit RPM... the voltage to the fan should be constant. Otherwise, there is only one perfect fan blade angle for that RPM... I have a feeling that boomer fan would have done A LOT better if it wasn't RPM limited...

[@lorinfortuna1547]

yeah, the fan that noctua designed specifically for the its motor. thats why the industrial ones (3000rpm) cost double :) and you know what, at 1500 rpm makes the same noise as the 1200 cheap ones

[@ireallyreallyhategoogle]

Yes, the power required to cool without too much noise, that's what a fan is designed for.

[@rivergranniss3740]

Dude it always bugs me super hard when he's just like "yeah they added instructions and I ignored them and didn't do a reprint just gonna ignore this massive error."

[@KTMcaptain]

Why even use a processor? just use a heating element that you can control the watts for and you can just run as much heat for as long as you want into a system.

[@pietrocavicchioli6128]

You have a point there!

[@potatopobobot4231]

Because he doesnt have a heating element. He has a processor. I am guessing that is why.

[@snortiblog]

Because then he can’t compare the performance of the fans. Also they’re for mounting on a cpu radiator, so it makes sense to test cpu performance.

[@KTMcaptain]

@@snortiblog No, he's testing them for heat rejection. Which is why he's only providing temperatures and not CPU scores. . Scientific testing requires controlling variables. Using a heating element instead of a processor will provide constant heat into the radiator block or air cooler and he can even provide the time it takes to heatsoak.

[@yunusalih]

I hope he sees your comment, because his testing ideas are bad imo. Just re-run every blade you printed wrong like boomer. Why even bother to ask to us? You fucked the instructions up so its not even the original design because it is not meant to run with your fuckups.

[@TheLoneWorg]

I think we should have two ladderboards. One for fixed rpm and another for full rpm.

[@DampQuiche]

The one and only sensible compromise i have seen!!!

[@user-kk4bq7mb8u]

Better to do this but one at max speed/performance and the other at a good noise normalized level. Because those are the two important metrics.

[@charlesoconnor4053]

Season 3: which fan works best as a turbocharger in my 2001 honda civic?

[@TheTyisawesome]

Lmao😂

[@marcus4424]

The blades have VTEC printed on them meaning this fan will spin much faster than the others

[@snakeatwar]

Thank you for listening to the community concerning test variables! We definitely need to see how all of the S01 designs perform with the new testing methodology. (I'm writing this mid-video so don't know of you've done that or not yet) The only thing with the new methodology I'd add is to do noise normalized testing as well. Run the fans at 40db for a test, and not just a set RPM and compare performance. Thanks again for listening to our concerns and addressing all of the major ones. Love the series.

[@Deinorius]

That Wave fan form just looks so awesome, when it's on! Absolutely cool! But yeah, noise normalized testing is the only way to go.

[@pietrocavicchioli6128]

You shouldn't apply an rpm limitation in my opinion

[@tronus98]

The lays chips (with ruffles) fan, while running, looked like the Warner Bros cartoon background thingy... Thhh thhh thhhats all folks!

[@SCComega]

Sorry for second comment, but could we see the first season top-5 leaderboard put up against these fans under the new testing standards, perhaps? I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who wants to see how they stack up, following the defeat of the noctua fan with the new setup.

[@feha92]

I am fairly unsure if the noctua fan really lost. He only compared it in terms of thermals, not the _much_ more important noise category (or if you feel like your cpu's tdp is oddly high and noctuas airflow somehow isn't enough and it throttles, perhaps some noise-to-thermal ratio).

[@Emenblade]

4 minutes in. I like the methodology you've decided to go with. I like that you will still show us how fast the fans will reach, but are using a consistent speed for the final testing. Good job

[@jurieccilliers]

It's just so satisfying to watch the smoke flowing as the air is moved.

[@____5837]

I disagree with letting them run at full speed for the noise test. Now the ones that have least resistance will be loudest (as spin fastest) which doesnt really provide a comparison between how much cooling they provide per noise. My suggestion is to what gamers nexus does and noise normalise the temperature tests. Instead of running all at 1200rpm, run all at 40db or something similar

[@yakir11114]

i dont think the RPM matters at all, to be honest. i see no reason to normilize by RPM ; why not normilize by noise? i think winners determined by performance per decibel great show btw! i dropped everything and came here

[@Chevsilverado]

I think that if a manufacturer were to create a fan they would pick the proper motor to make it spin at a proper rpm. Also, right now the designs seem to just be a linear trade off between weight and speed so limiting the speed would show a truely efficient fan regardless of weight.

[@DDracee]

@@Chevsilverado The problem is by normalizing the rpm you're also allowing heavier fans that would require too much power to spin fast enough to be spun at the same speed as the others. Law of conservation of energy, energy in = energy out. But you're allowing some fans to use more energy then others with this RPM normalization. It literally isn't fair and is not practical design. Just use a compressor or big enough scoops and call it a day with these rules.

[@quantumuninstall]

KZbin: Post an update your your fans. Me: Your fans are fans of fans. Its fanception.

[@SafetyLucas]

He should have called his channel "Only Fans"

[@insert_name_here9353]

“Boom sound kinda pleasing” Me: sounds a lot like a mower😂😂

[@JayMatth]

You said you have taken a colour science lesson and the result is awesome. The lighting and balance looks spot on!

[@hollol5933]

I think noise normalized would give more comparable results, since the actual speed of the fan is irrelevant when in your pc.

[@demetrijohnsonssirenvideos3590]

The wave blade looks like a cheddar cheese ruffles chip

[@Dreams_Of_Lavender]

I'd have called it "crinkle-cut", lol.

[@liam3044]

I think the rpm limits kinda dumb. Rpm should be designed in. If you want to do it do it again without the rpm limit.

[@TheFaraonM]

Why not take 2 mesurments with limited rpm and without it limited.

[@xeigen2]

It doesn't show anything useful to limit RPM. All it shows is the designer was able to pick the best blade angle for 1200 RPM. Tells you nothing about how good the fan is for dB or max airflow/static pressure/cooling. By limiting to 1200 you're optimizing for the wrong variable. It disqualifies fans that work best at a different RPM. Maybe someone will make a 1400 RPM fan with a blade design that has better cooling and noise characteristics, if you turn that fan down to 1200 RPM you're artificially limiting it. Test should be 2 measurements; noise normalized and max speed

[@Matt-fl6ys]

I don't know what you did with the smoke, but keep doing it! Cause it is great going into the fans and easier to see what is going on in the back!

[@Shukodoshi]

S2E1.5 reprint the boomer correctly. Fair chance and what not

[@icontrolthespice]

this, this is what ive been waiting for

[@garretthazlett9116]

*Opinion / Suggestion* ...First, awesome looking fans! Great job everyone! I so have a bit of an issue with the RPM limit. I think full tilt is a better comparison. That allows the design of the fan to be the limiting factor. I will always want to know what the FULL capability of the fan is at what dba when in installed configuration.

[@krzysztofmazurkiewicz5270]

Watching this exactly 24 hours later compared to the time on the locked desktop in the background ;)

[@blah3242]

Ah yes pointing lasers into the camera! Of the many ways... THIS is my favorite way to destroy sensors!

[@PoRRasturvaT]

Why didn't you measure the A12 sound? The whole point of beating it would be by doing so while being quieter or just as loud...

[@fredfinks]

Yes, the current testing is just about actual cooling performance. What i care about is noise. If its slightly worse cooling but much lower noise, thats a big win for me.

[@gearcheck101]

part of the efficiency is being able to run at a higher RPM at the same current draw....

[@bigbronx]

true, but honestly, who cares about power draw on a computer fan? noise should be the limiting factor

[@gearcheck101]

@@bigbronx I agree, they should either be noise or current limited, not rpm.

[@chaos_monster]

Can we talk about the fact that some of the fans of the last season might end up in actual machines

[@Carter-911]

I really liked how you recorded season 2 compared to season 1. Amazing work!!!!

[@ohokay.4390]

Love the production change this season. Makes the episodes flow better.

[@radicalxedward8047]

I don’t understand why fan makers don’t experiment more considering how many people buy based on aesthetics and don’t care about a little more noise or less airflow, etc.

[@Tigermoto]

Money money money 💸💰

[@tims4654]

I think you should keep running the fans as fast as possible, because the weight and balance will affect it.

[@trixter192]

Coming from the HVAC world, I found this showdown intersting. Has anyone managed an inverted incline design yet?

[@JacobJones-jx1wl]

They need to try it at least once

[@tsutsru]

cant believe how far you've come man, still love these videos

[@Nomad_za]

Hi, I am so glad season 2 is back! I enjoyed season 1. One thing you need to check is the wattage of each fan of you are limiting each fan to 1200rpm so all your viewers can see what wattage each fan is running at. Otherwise I think you should leave the fan to run at the normal speed because not everyone is going to run fans on fan controllers. But this is only my 2c worth.

[@modergav]

The boomer sounds like a lot of a old ford flathead Idling love it

[@TheWebstaff]

I'm not even subbed and I got here this quick..

[@piemaster6512]

Maybe you should sub. It supports him and shows youtube that people like his content, so he'll get recommended more. :)

[@cassandracollins4150]

When showing fans running can you show a picture of the fan. Or even for the LOLs film at a frame rate divisible by your RPM

[@Kennykazey]

This series is so cool in its simplicity. I love seeing the designs people come up with, and it's making me want to learn 3D modelling myself! I have to agree with most commenters here that limiting RPM is a bad idea, because mass and speed should be taken into account as a part of the design. I say don't normalize anything, give us the data at full wack just as in S1. I wanna see folks come up with an air raid siren if they so wish. I'm also wondering if an air cooler on the test bench could be an idea. A decent one but not as efficient as the liquid cooler, in the hopes of showing larger differences where the fan does more of the work.

[@wezling7512]

I say do both a 1200rpm run and a full speed run. Reason being that the mass and drag of a fan can add a power efficiency factor, which is an important real world mark.

[@heytheresakitty]

Noise normalize the fans. At so-and-so decibels, this fan is most effective. That way it isnt brute forcing air thru

[@DampQuiche]

He would need an anechoic chamber to do noise testing and noise testing is massively subjective... It is not just volume but frequency. People are bitching about RPM, can you imagine if the best most efficient fan ever sounded like a pig farting but was quiet... Nobody would put it in their case.

[@thefangoth]

Test fans at both vanilla and 1200 rpm. That would give a more detailed breakdown imo. Thanks...

[@enricorossi5996]

Have you ever considered to see how the smoke in pushed by the blades? To do this you should use a slow motion camera or you could surround the fan with smoke and then spin it slowly. I think by doing this test it becomes possible to see the vortices of air created by the various types of blades

[@reeeeeeeam511]

Its great to see your channel grow so fast. Awesome videos!

[@NN1Ckl.]

Those are basically very fair and well controlled factors to use. I'd say go with it.

[@Micksoffthings]

I leave this under every video I watched, it helps the algorithm

[@mtnbkr5478]

"What strange corner of the internet have I found?" James' onlyfans.

[@inherentlybadnoodles]

I think the tests should be noise-normalized. since in the end, thats what users are gonna set their fanspeed to

[@Xel_Naga]

been here since you were low 5-10k its been great to see your channel explode

[@RimanDingo]

I interned for BorgWarner and worked with the engineers that most likely designed that f-250 fan! So cool to see it put into a pc fan

[@zackkress7541]

You should limit it based on voltage or noise, not the RPM

[@crashbandicoot5636]

Christ, I could watch the Boomer all day. Look at that thing go!

[@fridajacobson7120]

Me too kid

[@mrpoki9]

Never been this early

[@blakegrigg3573]

Damn right.

[@Destructor429]

watching the fan show down for a while now and I can see your printer settings are getting dialled in nicely now. These fans look great! Lots of the fans in the first episodes......... Not so much!! You need to start working with the resin printer more and produce fans without layer lines! Love your channel. And keep up the great work!

[@8KilgoreTrout4]

That intro was super warming :) And perfectly described how I stumbled on to this video!

[@faroffstudios4112]

wow i cant beleive compnays actually reached out to the acceloron person

[@InDreamsYourMine]

FX processors everywhere breathed a sigh of relief when he mentioned 7700K was needed for it's heat output.

[@Tank_Facts]

fan testing method: ripping fat clouds

[@ronniemillsap]

very entertaining, and i think its coming together after so many tests! really learning tid bits here and there about fan design.