Running ITBs and a Standard ECU - Project Siesta Part 3!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Next episode is HERE! - Project Siesta - Autotesting, MOT and other bad news… kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYGuoYqJpp2kjas

[@maximumattackrallying]

Loved this series so far. I'd absolutely love to see before and after dyno runs with and without the ITBs on the Ford ECU. Would be interesting to see what the plots look like.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

I’d like to get some dyno runs done but it’s money and more importantly time to get them, difficult to carve out time with a full time job and kids etc…

[@maximumattackrallying]

@@MakingforMotorsport understandable, and probably not really worth it in reality. Would be interesting to see though!

[@Kj16V]

​@@MakingforMotorsportDefinitely not pointless! It's the only way to know how it's running and what difference the itbs made.

[@tinkerer570]

Hi David! First of all, your videos are a huge inspiration for me, thank you for all of your work you share with us! I did built mine ITB setup for a ford sierra 2.0 dohc with ECC - IV ecu It is basically the same as yours stock setup - MAP and O2 sensor. Unfortunately, I was not as successful as you were. The best vacuum I am able to pull is around 16 in Hg or 54 psi and the ECU is having a hardtime thinking that the engine is under a load all the time. The afr is pig rich at idle and partial throttle as well. If I was able to pull a higher vacuum, it 'd be golden and really usable, no problems at all. I am going to try a vacuum block setup with checkvalves - Just out of curiosity, if it helps to pull a higher vacuum. To whoever who would like to run itbs with stock ecu and map - dont do it. Standard ecu will not tolerate ITBs, at least from my experience. Looking forward to more experiments/ITB setups and builds!

[@thebibidu]

Hi, loved this project! Here is an idea for your vaccum manifold: remove the injectors from itb and replace by dummies, and use the fuel rail as vaccum port.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

That! That is genius! 💯💯💯

[@thebibidu]

@@MakingforMotorsport haha, glad you appreciate the idea. May not work if you're planning big turbo and twin injector set up though. And we know you're a naughty boy ☺️ (Ps, you're the reason I have a speeduino on my desktop, thanks for being an inspiration)

[@TravisFabel]

That will cause a similar problem to his oversize manifold. You need the volume to be small to be responsive. An undersized fuel rail could work. Location sounds like a good idea.

[@thebibidu]

@@TravisFabel maybe the sensor could be put on the rail ? Food for thought 🙂

[@mikemikeyee]

@@thebibidu This is definitely worth giving a try. Probably better placement of getting a good vacuum reading

[@ae70gts]

ive been shaking my head positively in every situation you came across. mate, im a car mechanic even for me your videos about itb's are educational ! ive been searching videos like this because im on the same mod myself 4age 16v with itb's with stock ecu .+ super afc apexi . no one ever made it run properly with stock ecu or even that added apexi fuel controller. its kind of a challenge for me ! thats why im pressing my self to finish it and completely fool the ecu like you did . relocated the tps so i can use the 16v one , relocated the iat sensor on the t3 adapter between butterfly no4 and cylinder head and using the original TVIS system so it has good speed density on idle .small vacuum manifold for map and fpr and servo booster . if i manage to make -55 -60 kpa on idle ( original value ) i think i can make the apexi's life easier !!! lol. fingers crossed!! thanks for sharing knowledge!!!!! keep it up!!!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Oh yes… the 4AGE! Love it, what an engine…. Let me know how you get on!

[@schwuzi]

LOVING THIS SERIES!! This stuff is right up my alley with things I've been thinking about doing. I'm so glad I found this channel. I'm really looking forward to all the speeduino stuff. That thing has intrigued me for so long now. I've got a couple junk cars standing around at home. A subaru legacy bg with the EJ20 in it would be a nice candidate to see if I can get it running on a speeduino. ITBs on a boxer anyone? 😄

[@MakingforMotorsport]

That sounds like a nice project… and it would sound awesome! Speedy vids hopefully coming soon….

[@nickzysek3257]

ITBs on those Subie engines sound amazing. I wish I could’ve done it on my Subaru but it would’ve been too involved of a process. I think my 1JZ-GE will be a much better candidate for ITBs.

[@jonwebb9261]

Love the honestly in your videos. The fact you're not screaming and saying the car is completely different is refreshing. This is a really cool project and I look forward to seeing what you do next!

[@SKOMPAS]

Thank you for this! Finally someone showing the magic of making a map sensor block for ITB’s on a stock ECU, would love to see a budget exhaust manifold and De-cat before the mappable ecu

[@mozerman88]

This is really sweet! I love the low budget, yet high level of design. Proves that you don’t need big budget to improve your car. I wish I had access to 3D printing when I was a teenager!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

We don’t need a big budget on this channel! (Which is helpful, as my wife won’t give me any money!)

[@shaunpc2512]

I’ve gotta be honest, I’m rather impressed with what you have managed to do with the little fizzbomb mate. It sounds like a MK2 Escort with twin 40 webbers on it so that’s a definite win in my opinion.

[@nickcook7408]

Open throttles on a 4 cyl will always sound like that mate, it’s why we love them

[@garagecedric]

Before you go full speeduino it would be really interesting if you could plug it in with only the wideband, and log what the original ecu is doing, how lean or rich its running as it is. It sounds so good, proper race car feel, if you don't look at the speedo of course 😂

[@gcardpt]

Waiting for the next episode :D

[@henryjohn2218]

Hi tom, thanks for Good camera work

[@jeffharrison5265]

Good luck on the MOT. Looking forward to seeing more on this with the programable ECU.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers, I don’t mind if any mechanical components need changing but I can’t be bothered with welding…!

[@StreetsandTracks]

Incredible!😂 sounds amazing!😆 Great work, even more keen to do this to my daihatsu. Great editing too, you put the video together really well, finally i can watch someone who doesn’t just walk around talking into a camera about what they just had to eat instead of showing us how they actually did things to their car!🤦‍♂️

[@timmehwimmy]

Hi Tom! And woo, looks like my prediction was correct.

[@aarontena]

Hi Tom! Amazing work, I love how well documented this is Best of luck with your mot pass!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers bud 🤞

[@willbennett7508]

bwarrrp! love it nice job

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers bud!

[@stemartin6671]

You can get little aluminium collector blocks with threaded holes for fittings to fit the vac pipes all together into one and run one single line out of the collector block.

[@Belozw]

Awesome! Cant wait for the next video!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Plenty more coming! 👍

[@SinsAscendant]

I thoroughly enjoyed this! Super glad I found your Channel from the polybushes on the Mini! 🙏

[@finnjb3249]

love the content, hi tom!

[@deciplesteve]

I'd love to see you do this on a slightly more modern car with more sensors to fight with. Keep up the fantastic work.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

I’ll do this on any car I can get hold off!

[@deciplesteve]

@@MakingforMotorsport something with a variable runner manifold, MAF sensor, etc to compete with would be quite the test of your skills.

[@mscd9676]

Hey, I've got a project on hand - a 20v 5cyl swapped lancia delta HPE '97. Do you think I should go for the speeduino and do lost spark 5 cylinder or buy a 6-channel sparkefi standalone and normal sequential ignition / injection? I'm torn because I want to do it right and not spend a lot of cash (expenses are basically a few times more cause poland is a 2nd world country) you're the one who basically got me into this ecu world.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

It’s difficult. The 6-channel would be more elegant but people have run 5-pots with a 4 channel Speedy. I’d say get on the forums and really understand what a 4-channel speedy needs…. I am always a fan of just getting stuff going to enjoy it, hard to enjoy it when it’s not running. Cheapest, fastest, worry about perfection later. 👍. (But that’s just me - if you are a perfectionist then maybe not)

[@lancereyesromero7811]

Please post videos about it

[@Jonathan_Doe_]

GM LS coil packs mounted on a plate somewhere near the spark plug holes (there’s a reason everyone and their dog uses them), and some little HT leads. Run an ECU that can handle 5 coils packs.

[@afox5319]

As someone who lives in Austria, Hey Atleast you get to enjoy modifying cars

[@Jonathan_Doe_]

@@afox5319 Yeah you guys need to drive around with a glovebox full of TUV approval certificates just to lower your car and change the wheels 😂

[@nickb2179]

love this content, just wish it was longer so there was more for me to enjoy! excellent stuff, keep it up!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers bud, just trying to keep it punchy! More vids planned! 👍

[@CAHelmer]

Came for the cameo by Tom. Stayed for the excellent work! Cant wait to hear about the MOT pass and see the map-able ECU.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Fingers crossed for the MOT, we’ll see 😬🤷‍♂️

[@sarahwilkinson5784]

Hi Tom!!!!! Xxx Loving your work David!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Thanks Sazzle!!! You can be in the next one! 👍

[@Happyh0b0]

Tbh, I put your vids up there with the likes of Guy Martin, Bad obsession motorsport and old top gear. Love it bro 😄.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Exulted company l, which I totally do not deserve but I am happy you are enjoying the channel!

[@RammerHonda]

Hy Tom! Thank you to for the fun videos!

[@biggboysouth]

Amazing work, I foresee hours on marketplace looking for cheap cars with oem map sensors lol. I would love to do this for myself. You can boost Idle Kpa and stabilize the kpa more if you use one way vacuum check valves on 3 of the 4 runners vacuum lines leading to the map sensor.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

That’s not a bad shout, it will help the vacuum side it of the MAP signal, but I doubt I will take this setup further… too many options!

[@kasuraga]

That's exactly the sort of setup I've been planning on using for my DIY itb's on my integra. small reservoir, some check valves, and bam, smoothed map signal

[@biggboysouth]

@@kasuraga Did it for my ITB miata and it worked really well. I have a aftermarket ECU so I was able to monitor / record my KPA readings and was able to configure my ITB KPA behavior close to stock.

[@exgtt2061]

first vid of your channel I watched - subscribed! Ps I owned and loved a 1.7 Puma swiss cheese edition a few years ago and am a HUGE fan of that platform.

[@TheIamgibbo]

Brrrraaaaapppp. The noise is every bit as glorious as expected That works shockingly well. Thank you emissions tech for doing something useful for once.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

It’s a nice change to have it work for you instead of against!

[@TheIamgibbo]

@@MakingforMotorsport also, more details on the printer enclosure please! Keen to hear how the printer is going/any setup changes you've made. I've got an enclosure mostly done to try and print standard nylon (it's cheap), but I'm yet to give it a go yet. Need a dry box first

[@alxo123]

Great production quality excited to see more.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers bud… plenty more planned

[@EnriLobato]

Hi Tom! hey this showed up in my algorithm so something is right! like and subscribed

[@thiswillprobhrt]

Might have been pointed out already, but both STFT and LTFT are determined by the pre cat\upstream sensor. Post cat is used for cat monitoring only. Car sounds great tho.

[@XephiusExperiment]

Fantastic work all around, looking forward to the next episode! Hi Tom!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers bud!

[@chrisrohlfs]

Hi Tom!

[@rosworks]

Thank you for the series! Already used your Mini videos to fit R6 Carbs on my 1.3 Micra. So next step it's fit ITB's to tunee it properly! Really really good material🙌🏼 You can see it running on my channel

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers buddy, I’ll check your channel out! 👍

[@empirestr31]

Nice job, thanks for putting in the hard work 🤙

[@johnnydoodles88]

Fantastic video man, definitely doing this to my little suzuki.

[@TheBreaded]

When I make parts like the MAP sensor adapter, I usually print NPT pipe threads so I can use a threaded brass barb. 3d printed barbs like that always seem to break off.

[@shngsam8777]

lovely engine sound hi Tom!

[@ismailbeygirci9394]

sounds sick af thats what really matters tbh

[@gavinoliver8074]

Great content. I'm currently building a puma autocross car and this is giving me ideas of doing my own conversion. After ecu and mapping I'd be really keen to see hp and torque increase.

[@911marcus]

Great, please keep it up, looking forward to the next video... Hi Tom ;-)

[@Team5ooo]

Heres hoping you do a great "how to speeduino" :) but of course if the other videos is to be judged its going to be great

[@MakingforMotorsport]

That’s the plan… hopefully the MOT is easy on me and we can press on!

[@JD-eo7dr]

@@MakingforMotorsport you dont need to put it back standard for the mot. They only test for exhaust I think it still probably be within MOT emissions limits

[@callumw8719]

Quality content

[@timbo19751975]

Hi Tom! Keep up the good work on the Fiesta! Not picking fault at all, but you don't have the theory of the Short & Long term fuel trims right at all.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Hi there, I did many cuts of this and talked about catalyst efficiency and a host of other stuff, but I had to boil it down to the essence and just explain it’s tiles in helping this system work. But OEM units really aren’t my bag at all… far prefer a mappable unit!

[@ThunderChunky101]

How have I only just found this channel?

[@MakingforMotorsport]

I dunno! But what matters is you’re here now! Plenty more planned 👍

[@danielcosgrove6767]

This is perfect! Looking to do this on my 1.7 puma engine and apparently the tape ecu is mappable !

[@redzook1]

Awesome work! cant wait to get my suzuki efi kits done with similar ideas!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers, love your crawler!

[@DRIFT_CORE]

Great videos man

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers buddy… been a bit slow recently… getting back on the horse now 👍

[@DRIFT_CORE]

@@MakingforMotorsport seriously learnt alot 👍👍

[@DanielBall]

Another quality video!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers 👍

[@zedjag7701]

good job

[@gabrielv.4358]

Amazing Sound. I thought it was a 8v Zetec Rocam 1.6l engine, but I realized it was revving too high with a stock ECU, and when I saw the engine I realized that the RoCam engine is mostly seen in Brazil. Nice build tho!

[@ascorbic123]

I've had 2 cars with the RoCam and they're honestly a good bit of fun.

[@griffithssteve]

That's not how long term fuel trim works, the lambda sensor after the cat is only there to make sure the Catalyst is working.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Yeah, I have got that but wrong, I did have a much longer section which included catalyst efficiency etc etc but had to cut it down, it just look too long! Guess I cut the wrong bits 🤷‍♂️

[@GarageItYourself]

Going wideband with the Speeduino should also really help in eeking out every last BHP possible :) I love content like this as I'd love to tinker with this side of engine tuning if I had more time and money.

[@_coffeeandcigars]

Nice, cant argue with those results, congratulations! =D 7 percent is a big gain....must be that extra hole in the ITBs ;)

[@Lord_Verminaard]

Haha! Love it! Well done!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers bud!

[@UnknownArtist994]

Good job m8!!! Cheers :)

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers buddy! 👍

[@RcManiaCyprus]

Great content!

[@Hackopat1]

great content man. thank you

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Thanks bud!

[@liamholcroft7212]

next episode, home-made big cams... but in all seriousness, I'd love to see the whole works on this car. I'd like to think you could get at least 120 hp out of her with cams, exhaust, port and polish and a map.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Home made cams???? Hmmm…. 🤔

[@liamholcroft7212]

@@MakingforMotorsport it would be interesting, you do have a lathe after all...

[@andreichichak5242]

Not quite. The O2 sensor after the cat is used to determine if the cat is working. If the ECU sees anything other than lean exhaust via the rear O2 sensor, that's a problem. If the cat is working, any surplus fuel gets consumed and the only things that should be hitting the rear O2 sensor are water, CO2 and nitrogen oxides. All of the fuel should be gone, unless the cat is not working, in which case you throw an emissions code. When adjusting the air/fuel mixture, the ECUs will only vary the mixture by +/-X% (like 25%) in a particular running session, this is the short term trim. So you have a base number and a short term adjustment. A longer term adjustment is calculated and stored for the next running session so that the mixture doesn't bounce off of the limits of the short term trim. This is the long term trim. It's like recentering the mixtures to correct for variations in injectors and sensors. You shouldn't be bouncing off of the short term trim limits all of the time, and if you bounce off of the long term trim limits you've got injector problems or air leaks.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Yeah. The first version of this video talking about conditioning the cat and cat efficiency checking and non resetting LTFT and lots of other things but I paired it back to stay on course… but I did get the tasks of the sensors wrong 🤦‍♂️.

[@COLLECTORSCORNER1979ANT]

Would like to see this done on a zetec s mk5 would be so much more fun. GREAT IDEA WELL DONE DUDE. ;-)

[@mariosnikolaou5212]

Really like the content.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Cheers buddy! 👍

[@izzieb]

This reminds me of Micra Madness' K11 Micra with motorcycle ITBs.

[@happyguy6911]

I really enjoyed this siesta series and you have a new follower. Would you ever consider making the 3d prints for this experiemtn available, maybe to patreon subscribers? I'd love to try out this on my 1.4 puma.

[@christianthurow]

HI TOM!

[@thepastafarian7167]

I would be very interested to see how you integrate the idle air control valve

[@runesmDK]

Long term uses front o2 as well. Rear o2 is for cat efficiency control.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Yeah, I had pieces in there about the cat efficiency and even more but it turned into half the video. I re-did that whole section and basically chopped it in half because mainly I think people are just in it for the Braaarps! 😂

[@runesmDK]

@@MakingforMotorsport we are. But that doesnt mean the tech bits doesnt matter as well 😁👌 i am watching every single one of your videos with great joy.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

@@runesmDK cheers bud!

[@ferrumignis]

Would have been interesting to see what the fuel trims were after driving it for a while.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Yeah, I should’ve included it!!! 🤦‍♂️

[@ChatMotorsport]

wow... new Subscriber, I have been thinking of doing something on my little EP1, only problem is the Inlet manifold is in a lot harder place in the engine bay...

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Welcome along! All cars need Throttle bodies! 👍

[@fila1445]

I don't run ICV on my peugeot xu10j4rs, we couldn't figure out why ecu wanted the valve to bo fully opened all the time so I just blocked it. have been running this setup for 3 years now almost daily (apart when there is a salt on the roads) and in cold weather I just need to hold throttle a little bit open for about 30-50 seconds and it idles fine :)

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Looks like something I don’t need to worry about then 👍

[@arran951]

I have also blocked my icv on my starlets Itb set up . It would also never close fully and just leaked in general.

[@dazzx10r]

That's fantastic, I always wondered if this was possible. Maybe you could try remapping the standard Ford ECU?

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Hmmm… hadn’t thought about that… was just gonna roll straight into a Speeduino full mappable ECU…. I’ll look into it.

[@rotary_rsr9794]

Woo first and I'm so happy to see this video!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

More videos and faster! Hope you enjoy it!

[@rotary_rsr9794]

@@MakingforMotorsport love the videos! I'm planning on a similar project soon. Would you mind me contacting you for advice if I get stuck ?

[@donfinch862]

Well done. ITB's do increase the throttle response, which is always a good thing. Did you notice any difference there?

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Oh absolutely, off load it was razor sharp and on the road it was noticeably better, but just not having the power means it’s not a massive difference.

[@patadamson4005]

Hi Tom

[@4WDJUSTY]

You two look like off brand colin furze and alex from car throttle :D I'm 3D printing mostly from ABS and brush on acetone C6000 on the prints so they get smoother and sealed better, it is also good for sticking it together

[@MakingforMotorsport]

I wanna know which one is which! 😂

[@MakingforMotorsport]

I wanna know which is which! 😂

[@mikemoore5929]

HI TOM

[@yuye117]

hell yes!

[@MakingforMotorsport]

My thoughts exactly!

[@tobymason8951]

I miss my little mk4 fez now :(

[@shirajulislam3215]

hi tom

[@ehh.97]

Hi Tom 👋🏻

[@StupidBlokeStupidVideos]

Been considering doing this with my c1 using Triumph ITB’s, but I haven’t bothered starting it cos I know I’d never get it finished 🤷‍♀️

[@MakingforMotorsport]

This only just got finished….

[@JB-ci6bn]

First, congrats about what u done, but what you did about the idle control valve? I was thinking about do the same as u done with the inlet pressure sensor , I have a Peugeot 306 GTI and thinking about to do this

[@scottex.]

how does the car not pass mot? can't you do the inspetion from some random shop that basically passes anything? In italy we do it like this

[@tripplegracing8276]

What ITB's would you say is a good way to go for a 1977 Chevrolet/Vauxhall/Opel 2.0L CIH motor, I will also going to be running Speeduino. Many thanks for the great content. Warm regards from Port Elizabeth, South Africa.

[@Terraschrauber]

Hey! Nice project! My Fiat 16V has the same MAP Sensor. Maybe you can upload your STL for my 3D Printer. Would be nice for my ITB project. Thanks! and if not Thanks too! Love your Videos!

[@sataneatcheese6243]

Could you not put a temporary restriction onto the ITBs to help with anything? Or do they not quite work loke that?

[@pgtmr2713]

Lighten the flywheel. Longer runners, velocity stacks.

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Well the clutch is definitely on its way out so that’s definitely an option…

[@tigererickson8375]

Hey Tom! That's MOT backwards🤙🏼

[@MakingforMotorsport]

It absolutely is. I’ll tell him!

[@Fantastika]

Cracking video! I just wonder whether with the speeduino you could pass emissions by changing the maps

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Yeah, the emissions you could pass I reckon… I know certain areas (California) have the ECU do checks on the cat efficiency, speeduino can’t do those so it would fail those areas…

[@goldcountryruss7035]

What ITB is big enough for 250+ HP @ 6,500 on a K24? Also, why not cast the map sensor mount and air channels into the manifold flange?

[@MakingforMotorsport]

You want 45s or 48s for 250+…. And I want 250bhp from a k24, that’d make my beemer fly… As for the channels, I just wanted to keep it simple to start with, had I kept the car I might get more complex and neater with the packaging

[@hustla10188]

Those sweet 'Brap Brap Braps' 👌👍👍

[@JimBrodie]

Hi Tom. =]

[@MakingforMotorsport]

He says hi!

[@youarestillalive]

Hi, I've got a Ford Focus with pretty much the same 1.6l zetec engine and i want to install a Speeduino ECU. Do you know if the 3 Pin coilpack is compatible because I always read you need a 4 pin coilpack like on a VW to work. Tx :)

[@DomZaa]

This is so cool! I haven’t seen anyone in Germany running itbs on a stock ecu. I would love to see a sharp cam shaft, mechanical lifters, some funnels to influence the behavior of the engine and remove the rpm limiter. I think I’ve seen an excel table in a German forum to calculate the correct intake length

[@MakingforMotorsport]

Next step with this is basically to junk the standard ECU… 7500 here we come!

[@viktorkallo4144]

Hey. Good job 😁 love your videos. I don't know if someone already asked it of not i have a good question for you. How i have to calculate the diameter/cyl for my stock injectors bc i don't want to use the car with lean mixture or rich mixture. 1.4L aex vw engine Thank you for the answer.

[@Eddiebayes177]

Plz do this with a zetec s 1.6