Malcolm Gladwell Is Lord Of All Things Overlooked and Misunderstood | Rich Roll Podcast

Legendary author & podcaster Malcolm Gladwell joins Rich Roll to talk about all things overlooked and misunderstood in sports, life, education and more. To read more about Malcolm and peruse the full show notes, go here👉🏾bit.ly/richroll692a
✌🏼🌱 - Rich
LISTEN / SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST
Apple Podcasts: bit.ly/rrpitunes
Spotify: bit.ly/rrpspotify
Google: bit.ly/rrpgooglepods
Meal Planner: meals.richroll.com
Voicing Change Book: richroll.com/vc
Clips Channel: / richrollpodcastclips
Newsletter: bit.ly/rollcallemail
CONNECT WITH RICH
✩ Website - richroll.com​
✩ Rich Roll Podcast - richroll.com/all-episodes/
✩ Instagram - / richroll
✩ Twitter - / richroll
✩ Facebook - / richrollfans
✩ Strava - www.strava.com/athletes/14443...
✩ Memoir: Finding Ultra - www.richroll.com/shop/books/f...
✩ Meals - meals.richroll.com​
✩ Cook - The Plantpower Way - www.richroll.com/shop/books/t...
✩ Italian! - The Plantpower Way: Italia - www.richroll.com/shop/books/t...
✩ Support - / richroll
FILMED AND EDITED BY BLAKE CURTIS & DAN DRAKE
www.blakecurtis.net/
www.dandrake333.com/
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:37 - Is Malcolm the World's Ultimate Sandbagger?
00:04:56 - How to Make Overlooked Sports More Exciting?
00:13:26 - Challenging Lebron James to a Mile Race
00:16:02 - The Literary Mile Challenge
00:17:57 - Age & Performance Capacity
00:27:42 - AD BREAK
00:29:33 - Legacy of Speed
00:39:27 - Voice, Exit or Loyalty
00:44:11 - Olympics 68 - Tommy Smith's Amazing World Record on a Pulled Groin
00:45:37 - 1968 Olympics, Making a Symbolic Statement
00:55:56 - Shortcomings of the Olympics
01:03:58 - AD BREAK
01:05:33 - Back to Olympics '68, Lee Evans
01:13:39 - Wrong Assumptions About Perseverance
01:19:05 - The Best Way to Run at 100% is to Not Run at 100%
01:23:04 - Malcolm's Technique w/ Getting the Best Interview
01:28:21 - Malcolm's Move to Creative Audio
01:39:04 - Using Audio for the Paul Simon Book
01:41:30 - Peak Performance vs Longevity
01:49:46 - Malcolm’s Thoughts on Competition
01:55:00 - Closing Thoughts
* * * * *
NEW TO RICH?
Hi I'm Rich Roll. I'm a vegan ultra-endurance athlete, author, podcaster, public speaker & wellness evangelist. But mainly I'm a dad of four. If you want to know more, visit my website or check out these two the NY Times articles:
bit.ly/otillonyt
bit.ly/vegansglam
I LOVE MAIL! SEND IT HERE:
29617 Agoura Rd.
Agoura Hills, CA 91301
#richroll #richrollpodcast

[@tom420guitar]

Plants & Sports & Rich & Roll Is all my body wants and needs Plants & Sports & Rich & Roll Is very good indeed...

[@rositsazlatanova1146]

I love his books, have read them all! 'Outliers' is my favourite one.

[@kylezylstra2596]

Love Gladwell, thank you for having him on! I especially love how he challenges common perception

[@alassanejuniorkebe9256]

this guy is my hero

[@googbert]

I have lived a long time, but one of the most memorable moments for me was attending a talk by Malcolm In Portland many years ago.

[@wastingtimeya]

Great episode. I think its really important that competition and grading for children under 14 be spoken about and become more present in the mainstream collective knowledge. Personally, when my kids started school 15 years ago at a Dewey progressive education styled school, which includes no grades or tests, I was blown away by their educational capabilities. Introspectively, I came to realize the negative impact even simple grading had on myself and the life long effect it has had on me (Gen X).

[@Journeymanlive]

I agree, even for me who was on top. It was not even beneficial, I thought I was good, probably fine for adult life, I had no clue that work, society is not little grades of school. It's insane, the grades and competition doesnt' help the kids who have great grades or bad one. pretty useless model. cheers

[@lurleanhunt9335]

Literally, the best 2 hours of my week!

[@janethagy8871]

Once again my mind is blown. Thank you Rich Roll for always filling my head with the most interesting perspectives on life through your amazing guests.

[@tomaspuskas950]

Oh, I remember him from talk about Goliash and David. Amazing how he can look at things differently.

[@janalu4067]

My experience with sports: At 14/15 I wanted to try a new sport. There was no place for me. Everyone my age had been training since 8 years old and was already a highly trained competitive athlete. I just wanted to have some fun doing a sport I really like (no I wasn't fat). There is no sport access for kids who just want to stay healthy and be active! Except maybe jogging or cycling on your own 😔

[@neilsix]

Got me through my treadmill speed workout. Thank you Rich Roll and Malcom Gladwell!

[@Tarawater18]

Two of my favorites sitting down. I’m giddy! Thank you.

[@lizeegrl]

He’s always been my brain crush

[@miaheavener945]

Me toooo

[@KaizenMinds]

Me too!

[@BrendanEvan]

That’s the term! 🧠 ❤

[@wendybird7059]

Yasss

[@planetarysolidarity]

Malcolm for Education Czar.

[@dosesandmimoses]

I appreciate these conversations on historical topics that might be forgotten outside of the academic realm. Gratitude

[@soybeans8139]

This is wonderful, love his books. I can’t wait to listen.

[@himanshu010]

Thanks for this podcast.

[@catsteinhilb2880]

Underpromise overdeliver is the way. Love this convo. More good stuff. Thank you RR & MG

[@JustinKortuem]

love this podcast. Thank you for sharing. We need a revolution in sports and we need more people to understand this and implement it.

[@KrisG66]

Absolutely one of your very best. Thank you Rich and Malcolm!

[@balwc147]

This guy is genius! 🧠

[@ryanhawks8864]

This is probably one of my favorite from Rich Roll. Great conversations here!

[@Psmfmyway]

You interview a lot of athletes who talk about extreme competition and success accompanied by serious injury and recovery. What about interviewing one or two of the phenomenal surgeons who dedicate their lives to repairing the damage that inevitably comes with pushing the limits of physical achievement/endurance. They are the ones that actually allow peak performance to translate into longevity.

[@billsanders8526]

Finally got a chance to watch the episode and loved it. I could listen to that conversation all day.

[@mikeporterfield1904]

Top 10 all-time RR podcast🏆

[@barbbrazes869]

Amazing, awesome interview!! Love both Rich and Gladwell!! Brilliant!!

[@gregoryburne5251]

Possibly the most pleasant man on Earth. I could listen to him all day. He’s such a great thinker and communicator.

[@juniorvicepresidentofzimba4946]

Go and watch the Munk debates recently held with Matt Taibbi and Douglas Murray. Pleasant? Yikes.

[@gregoryburne5251]

@@juniorvicepresidentofzimba4946 Obv my views have changed since seeing his views on Covid etc. 🤨

[@juniorvicepresidentofzimba4946]

@@gregoryburne5251 He was so unbelievably rude to Matt Taibbi in that debate. You should watch the debate though, very worthy of your time.

[@anne-marie6996]

Wonderful episode - one of the best. Rich you are the best podcast interviewer. It just feels like an interesting conversation. Amazing discussions you have with people.

[@pamelavickerstuttle1892]

One of my faves.

[@sheriready1830]

So many great ideas here! I feel like I could have listened to you two chat for hours!

[@delphinelisabeth]

It's fun to see Rich so excited to have Malcolm on

[@hardknoxtalkspodcast]

I have been on a journey of healing for over 5 years and I am still looking for a relaxation technique that works consistently.

[@silviavanderheiden5123]

Malcolm please write a book about the education system and how to improve it!

[@marygrogan6101]

What a fascinating person. Appreciate all of the interviews and thoughts you share.

[@frankcurrie2630]

I learned (the hard way) why we don't put the swim last: If someone runs out of steam in the last leg while running (take a 50-year old guy who's doing his first tri ever, for instance, and has no idea how to pace himself), they slow down and walk. If they realize they've run out of steam fight after they get into the water (as I did because my first tri was a reverse because it was using a pool and wanted to spread the competitors out to avoid the problems of hundreds of people rushing a pool at once), they die. Or could. It's a joke for people to say when asked how they did on their first tri or major athletic event to say, "Well, I survived!" But when I hit the 14-ft end of the pool and watched the surface recede away from me and thought, "Huh, I don't think I have enough left in me to get back up there...," the joke can be all too real. Anyway, I think that's why we don't do the swim last. 🙂

[@millerbiz]

Nice work Rich- Malcolm is a treasure

[@precioustraveler]

This was an EXCELLENT chat!

[@EricMHowardII-yh1rn]

John Carlos has fire in the belly to become victorious in his sport of choice.

[@aryanld3068]

My two favorite human beings are on the same table. Love it.

[@davidguthrie3739]

Your comments about longevity versus peak performance are right on. That's the underlying problem with our sports culture. Naturally, young athletes are hyper-focused on striving for their personal peak, and sadly, they often fail to see any point in training once they're past their prime. Once an athlete is irrelevant, they are expected to quit. No one seems to look at their quality of life beyond the fleeting spotlight of attention.

[@michaeleaster1815]

14:08 Hockey is very similar, in that these days, the shifts are very short, and just all-out. I love various glorious teams from the 1950s-1980s but I think they would be blown away by today's game. Great interview! Subscribed...

[@zaktiburzi]

I love me some Rich Roll

[@yisharahsings]

Love this!

[@carolgerber6375]

Absolutely LOVE Malcolm Gladwell! So freaking smart, yet personable. Thank you Rich!

[@jenniferh.2150]

This video title is the most accurate description of Malcom Gladwell ever written. It should be the title of his next book.

[@V4D2]

Gladwell is definitely one of my references. But.. the mood he's in, is completely influenced by Rich's own energy and way of.conducting the conversation, between, exactly what they mentioned_letting the conversation happen, whilst keeping a solid idea on what should be discussed. I've been a long time listener/follower..here...and I've also been reading Gladwell for a long time...but this conversation was WAY above average. -> How to discuss the very core matters&problems of Humanity, through subtle,.metaphorical..and yet VERY tangible realities. What a disgrace it is ..to all of us..that our society doesn't treasure the greatness of longevity at least as much as it treasures peak greatness. Than you so much for this , And to everyone involved. It was a pleasure and a privilege Cheers from Portugal

[@rickyhughes]

AMAzing

[@dickdavidson3616]

Excellent

[@stevelafler]

Tommie Smith and John Carlos / thank you gentlemen.

[@charleslewis6815]

The most interesting person!

[@wendysusanlovejoy3983]

I have a young friend who loved gymnastic up until the age of six at which point, if she wanted to continue in gymnastics, she had to participate in competitions. She hated the competitions and quite all gymnastics classes. Kids are not encouraged to just have fun in sports.

[@hogtime5]

I was a good athlete in high school but was to light for football at the next level ! And to short for basketball at the position I played

[@drpearlmantv6357]

A must listen in to the Land of "the GRey" :)

[@chrisperrine6905]

"...an academically rigorous school made up completely of competitive athletes. That would be really interesting." That exists! Check out any of the United States military service academies, ie West Point, Annapolis and the Air Force Academy. Might be a great podcast!

[@thebabystepproject]

I’m guessing the Speed City shirt is not out yet? Looked everywhere

[@alexiswilliamsinc]

“We can’t impose adult models of hyper competitiveness on kids” 8:59 I want to live in a world where we learn to stop imposing hyper competitiveness on EVERYONE. Choose to be competitive with others who choose it. Fine. But so often we kill ourselves in the name of competition.

[@aprilnelly]

Never gave it thought, but his performance in the Munck forced this realization upon me. That Gladwell is a good storyteller and a 'pop pyschologist'. As a younger person reading him, I mistakenly imbued him with gifts he never had.

[@aprilnelly]

@@willzimjohn yes. Key word: "pop"

[@ricardomurillo5205]

Sport superevents is a battle ground of nations. This is why blacks or other groups are not allowed to protest. Those guys with the black gloves are hero level courage. Nobody got physically hurt, but it was a tough message.

[@avalanche2565]

Such a great episode¡! Suggestion: can you two write a book for Parents & Educators on some Psychological health/ best practices: for childhood competitiveness in sport and school. I definitely struggled with my psychological issues playing competitive sports period plus I had a learning disability that was not caught until my senior of high school so I literally thought I was stupid. So now I erased my child to have a robust amount of opportunities in school and Sport, but now I find that with her talent and being ahead of the game comma there is an ego trip that is encouraged by her teachers. Not so much here coaches....

[@benellison5668]

during the Olympics of antiquity, all nations were supposed to stop fighting wars during the games

[@wideorbits7103]

Yussssss

[@candiceerorita9505]

I had to tweak my syllabus in Current Issues in Psychology class, so that I can require my students to read Blink and Outliers. 😊 I've loved Gladwell since 2010. 🥰

[@DrJuvanni]

As a geriatrician turned anti-aging doctor, I can’t agree more. Doctors don’t get trained in United States to dispense information about longevity through preventing diseases. When I realized that insurances pay us according to how many diseases our patients develop, I decided to stop working for insurance companies and started my own private anti-aging training center. It was super difficult but totally worth every minute I spent dispensing health & anti-aging!

[@allyson--]

Wow! That's very admirable of you to try & offer what you believe in. Are there any anti-pagung & preventative care resources you enjoy or condone online? Like books, websites, podcasts, etc.

[@BrendanEvan]

I think bringing Ekiden to the States would be interesting

[@Lovingwhisperer]

Loved it. Yes ! … brain and running crush ! I love how efficient he is and loves efficiency As do I. Funny I was given a plaque in 5th grade for thee most athletic kid in school … A plaque! I was like damn right lol I was very competitive and efficient and smart. I don’t even think any kids cared. interesting to think about this now. I wonder.

[@xx-qn7bc]

New WORLD Champion 17 years old David Popovici the youngest Champion in swimming 💥💥💥

[@julieb8348]

I think that it would be very difficult to draw a line of what issues should be highlighted at a sports event… race, gender, wars, etc. when someone decides to go to an sports event, which is divisive in nature, they want to be entertained… same as when they go to a concert and the artist decides to preach their political views… I am Colombian and if I went to a soccer game and have to listen to any kind of political activism it would bother me. I also consider myself sensitive to social issues.

[@davidguthrie3739]

Maybe it's the job of the phys-ed teacher to give that "instilling habits" speech, not just the athletic director. The athletic director can give a speech that says "We're here to win a state title AND you will learn lessons from that process that will serve you for your entire lives." The problem isn't scholastic sports teams or a desire to win, but an entire society and, by extension, its educational system that doesn't understand or value physical education. It's very difficult to teach young people those lifelong habits when the immediate benefits and consequences are invisible. Maybe what we need is better educational opportunities for adults who realize that their unhealthy lifestyle is catching up with them.

[@Ronniezim]

Isn’t swim first in tri to prevent tired athletes from drowning?

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

The one thing I disagree with is the idea of the Olympia’s staying in one place because of heat . BIAS! Half the world is trainjng in heat !! Maybe for them the cold is a hinderance . Eurocentrismo

[@StoicSuperstars]

Rich Roll, check out research, I was vegan for years, behind keto carnivore

[@minnievenkat]

I lived in San Jose for nearly a decade and never heard of the San Jose track and field team. Never knew it existed. Leave alone that it has a fantastic activist and achievement history

[@eddiegill]

Recall grammar schools in mid 1960s awarding presidential fitness badges. We really got into earning it. Is it still around?

[@jzen1455]

It wasn't around by the time I was in elementary in the 90s.

[@lindsaywait8763]

@@jzen1455 I definitely got mine in the 90s! Probably just a school level thing.

[@TheStengso9o]

Loved the insight of the protest, and the ideas to widen the reach of running, young kids and results. But this was a disaster. MG brings good thoughts and ideology to the table- instead of agreeing and saying AWESOME maybe RR could have done better at providing the argument of the other side. What are the good arguments for why politics are left out of sport. YES Ppl went overboard with the Simone dilemma but dig more into the why is that? It seemed like MG was searching for confirmation bias with his ideology. Instead of having a conversation about it.

[@kkpaine]

Reflective - 60’s Olympic history was a necessary reminder of recognizing the. courageous personalities of today - Novak Djokovic, Kyrie Irving and others mentioned in podcast - who become / become political fodder because …… we’re a base animal specie.

[@jorgemonasterio8361]

I never meet famous people but I have a very short list of famous people that I would like to meet: Malcolm is on it. Larry David is on it. That's it. no presidents. no Nobels.

[@jzen1455]

I'm 39 and the strongest I've ever been and still getting stronger! I could kick my 20-something ass with one arm behind my back.

[@lucaspizzarun]

Good show. Just a correction when he criticized Olympics in Rio, it was in Jun/Jul when is winter in south hemisphere , although not that cold.

[@joanslate3432]

Love team triathlons…..

[@stevesteel6066]

How many self plugs?

[@localrachel]

1 hr 23 mins in to this amost 2 hr podcast and the only topic so far has been sport FYI.

[@pabloluisasenjo7170]

Maradona vs Messi, Maradona peak performance, Mexico world cup vs longevity in football, as Jorge Valdano said: "Messi is Maradona every day"

[@batsnackattack]

Never mind why but I spent a week with Winter Olympians from around a dozen different countries. The countries mean nothing anymore because it's all just international trainers and locations and techniques. It's actually a disappointing thing when you realize that it's pretty much proportional body size. It's somewhat fascinating in that the top skier woman and the top snowboarder woman are nearly identical in body shape and proportion. The ONLY difference is the size. The top male skier is just the one who happens to be a very very large version of the proportions. He happens to be 6'4 but proportioned. the 2nd place guys were 6'1 with the exact same proportion and so on. Then this intersection is age. Gold medal guy was the biggest proportions who was the oldest. 34. so the maximum experience before physical decline to age/injuries/wear. Almost 100% of Olympians are from wealthy, well-connected, socially elite and important families. Gladwell is not wrong about the 'dumb jock myth' but he's missing something which is that some Olympians have openly explained that they were, in effect, a decade behind in everything else besides sports. The will say they are 35 years old chronologically but outside their sports they are like 20 years old and that is because they devoted intense cognitive work (and did it well) on one very specific niche of the world. So they aren't dumb jocks but they are effectively held back from the outside world development. still, the more fascinating thing was that a lot of the qualifiers and higher the levels was obviously body size (not shape) and seeing the level of success on just how large or small they were but proportioned.

[@AussieRoos]

Interesting episode, although a mute point Germany was on top of the medal 🏅 tally in 1936, but would have been more if the USA had boycotted, plus Jesse Owens proved Hitler wrong.

[@Herfinnur]

1:03:15 so don't have them in summer. Problem solved. No one with a life worth living wants to spend the end of July and beginning of August inside watching TV. A quick search shows that in April Athens has an average high/low temperature of 20/9 degrees Celsius and only two days of rain. May would be great just for the symbolic value (Maia was a Greek Goddess and fittingly the daughter of Atlas and Pleione and the mother of Hermes (winged sandals? C'mon!). Apparently the average high/low temperature in May is 25/16 degrees Celsius with 3 days of rain, which doesn't seem that bad for sports. None of this is relevant, because the Olympic committee isn't ever going to change a damn thing, but the waste of money and the environmental impact of building new infrastructure each time is bonkers!

[@Second2LastPioneer]

Murakami runs and Peter Sagal

[@paul_devos]

Poor Malcolm Gladwell, the NBA had more possessions (trips up and down the court) in 60s and in many cases, the 70s than today. The NBA has more "possessions" the past 3 years but much of that is due to how they count possessions and the reseting the shot clock at 14 seconds to force up another/quicker shot. They also don't run near as far as they used to in the old days as the 3P shot is 25' away from the hoop and now accounts for 40% of the shots attempted. They also have more TV commercial breaks than ever. They also don't play 11-12 games in 15 days like they used to. They now only play 7-8 games in 15 days with only only 1-2 back-to-backs. They also fly in private airplanes where players can easily sleep in the planes versus by charter/commercial planes and/or bus where they couldn't sleep. To learn from your friend David Epstein, the technologies have tremendously improved to support physical performance.

[@googbert]

When they talk about Kap and the NFL they overlook the fact of the huge military investment in sports ads to recruit young people and encourage flag waving.

[@LheaJLove-zn4fz]

1972.

[@bobadducci]

Malcolm is a genius.

[@vinasel96]

He's better in interviews than in debates. No respect.

[@alexred1038]

He’s more respectable than you Vinny

[@senshai1267]

To be honest ..me being a hardcore f1 fan , really didn't like the Netflix show " drive to survive ".

[@treycaldwell4118]

Why would we politicize the Olympic games? Just let athletes be athletes let's get together and compete.

[@frostfox1208]

With protest in sport, where does it end? What if an athlete gave the middle finger? Same thing as a fist or a knee. Why not pull your pants down in protest? That should be permitted as well. The athletes signed a contract to not steal the spotlight. I’m surprised that the two speakers do not understand this. I’m disappointed.

[@alexred1038]

Grow up

[@minnievenkat]

Oh gosh! The tragedy of that Australian athlete too! Essentially all three of these men paid such a high prize for their activism.

[@ricardomurillo5205]

1:02:30 I disagree. Are you a world champion only at sea level? at 25C degrees? At X humidity level? No! You are the WORLD champion, and not of the city with conditions where white rich people feel comfortable...Oslo. Ideally, all the cities from different regions (that want it) go in a box and location is chosen at total random. The world ain't flat.

[@Pops2]

I'll race you Malcom. First we wrestle.... 😂

[@AlfredHimmelweiss]

Why you have a long table between you, like Mister Putin with his guests?

[@juliadora3062]

Safety distance because of corona!

[@robertgrant4243]

“Prophets”? Cmon now.

[@krimpfugly]

skip the intro

[@TheBrazilGuy]

It's a mix of the Western version of a North Korean podcast and that redneck who thinks he's not racist cause he has a black friend.

[@shartmann2008]

The public has ridiculous expectations and NO sense of reality when it comes to athletes like Biles. They labeled her a quitter and I think the racist undertones were LOUD.