Mallory & Irvine: The Watch

[@greneellen8]

This is a great channel, and I love your content. It makes me laugh though because there's more bickering and nastiness than I've seen on message boards in a long time. We're all on the same side--interested in this mystery, looking at all the angles and learning more about what happened that day in June of 1924.

[@michaeltracy2356]

I wish I could agree with you. However, there are drone photographs taken in 2019 that show details of the mountain, potential routes they climbed, potential body locations, and many other things that would greatly help with "learning more about what happened that day in June of 1924." Here is Mark Synnott describing the photos and requesting that they be made public: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGK7nneghN6jfJI So, someone has those photos, and they will not share them. They only show them to people who are on the "approved list." Mark Synnott claims to have seen the photos and supports releasing them to the public, but your statement that "we're all on the same side" is a bit naive. I'll give you a homework assignment: contact National Geographic, which you claim is on the same side, and ask them to release the drone photos, as Mark Synnott requested in his presentation. Or, let me know that they won’t release them for you, and provide your explanation of whether you still think they are on the same side. The drone photos are just one of many items. There is also a letter from Odell to Mallory that has been kept secret. Contact the 1999 team and ask for a copy of that letter-because you claim they are on the same side. You will quickly find out that things are not as simple as you think. Thom Pollard took photographs of Mallory’s face. We don’t need to see the photos, but a medical examiner could form an opinion about the supposed hole in Mallory’s head (which I do not think existed or was probably put there when the 1999 team struck him with their ice axe). Thom will not respond if you ask him about this. Ask the 1999 team for the inventory of all the items they found on Mallory’s body. They will say they will get it to you, but they never will. So, that’s another homework assignment for you. It should be easy because you think we all want to know what happened that day. Get the list of items that were found on Mallory’s body-you can’t. But you need to report back whether you were able to get it or explain how this fits with your theory that we are all on the same team. Ask for Dave Hahn’s video of the climbing above the 1933 high camp that was done in 1999. This would show the original location of the oxygen bottle. They will not share it with you. But again, go and try, and either get it or write back how this affects your theory that we are all on the same team. Good luck with all of that. I really hope you are successful.

[@mako88sb]

@@michaeltracy2356 Only had a passing interest in this topic. I remember quite well hearing the news about Mallory’s body being found and the subsequent National Geographic issue featuring that discovery. Must admit I always assumed they didn’t make the summit but have pretty well changed my mind after watching some of your videos. Hopefully conclusive proof will be eventually found. Just curious is there anything about rocks found at the summit different enough than found elsewhere near the summit that would rank as conclusive evidence?

[@greneellen8]

@@michaeltracy2356 Maybe I just don't know enough about it. I've watched Thom Pollard's videos. Why would he withhold information? Can you tell me or even direct me to videos that would explain more. I'd appreciate it!

[@rtqii]

@@mako88sb Yes. The top of Everest is sedimentary rocks, every band of sediment as you go up has a different age and composition. Rocks from the summit are not the same as rocks picked up 100 feet lower, it's a different band of sediment.

[@TheGotoGeek]

@@greneellen8It’s likely not his information to disclose. NatGeo has been owned by NewsCorp for years, and NDAs are a thing.

[@lulabellegnostic8402]

George Mallory served as an artillery officer in the Great War and survived the battle of the Somme. I believe this would greatly have affected his perception of risk. And knowing that the 1924 expedition was going to be his last chance, he decided to risk all. I can’t see him turning back.

[@davida.4933]

Irvine reportedly said to effect if it's a one way attempt, so be it...

[@62sunburstjazz78]

Absolute truth.

[@michaelrothstein4343]

Why is it generally considered that it was to be his "last" chance at Everest?

[@tarawaukeri8928]

UBIQUE

[@identifiesas65.wheresmyche95]

@@michaelrothstein4343 I think he was getting up there in age. Sounds far fetched though if he was considered to be one of the best you'd think 1 or 2 years later he'd still at least close to one of the best? But maybe they couldnt afford to go every year.

[@falcodarkzz]

I wanted to thank you personally. I first came across Thom Pollard's videos, interviews, and other tidbits. I'm trained as a scientist, and I immediately detected a real lack of rigour and complexity, and some contradictions, and went hunting wildly for information to actually piece together this story. Finally finding your channel, I have some peace. The analysis, the detail, the objective reasoning, it's all there, just superbly well done and I am grateful. I can finally rest.

[@kencusick6311]

If the watch marks the time of death, they had spent the previous 2 hours descending in total darkness. The prior 4 hours descending in only moonlight darkness. Following a route previously traversed only by themselves. Exposed to the Mountain for 20 hours. Seventeen hours at or above 28,000 feet. My God. They came so close to making it down.

[@azer20099]

Yeah, they were about one hour, or less, from the high camp shelter... Given the time, they must have made it to the top.

[@kencusick6311]

@@gregknipe8772 I did prefaced my statement with the conditional, if. I would not base any conclusions on the time on the watch but if I was constructing a pie chart of all of the percentages of reasons why the watch stopped when it did, the single overwhelmingly largest piece would be “falling 1000 feet down the side of a mountain in the owners pocket.” I would have very little reason to spend much time on other explanations. I was simply trying to calculate how much time they may have been exposed on the mountain if (and that’s the biggest word in the English language) they summited.

[@theodoresmith5272]

@@kencusick6311 Ken was it a wrist watch? In other accidents on high mountains they use the stopped time because without body heat, the old mechanical watches froze.

[@CharlesFreck]

@@theodoresmith5272 As explained in this very video, the watch no longer working if frozen is exactly why it would be stored in the pants pocket and not a jacket pocket, as the body heat would keep if functional.

[@kelrogers8480]

@@gregknipe8772 I don't know you, but you appear to really enjoy pissing off those you disagree with. Ironic, isn't it?

[@robertbruce3641]

Michael, thank you for your independent thought, for your effort, and for questioning and challenging the conclusions other people put forward. It's refreshing.

[@michaeltracy2356]

General Amnesty: All users banned more than a week ago have been re-instated. Fools will still not be suffered.

[@SkiSkillsMontana]

Mr T..... I pity the fool

[@aleksandarfilipovic991]

Michael Tracy, I am in love with your precision and methods to find the truth in todays mess of information / missinformation. I have no climbing experience, but the story about 1924 climb is absolutely intriguing. Thank you!

[@michaelmello42]

Michael Tracy, thanks again for another fascinating video. The reasons you list for the likelihood that Mallory and Irvine reached the top are compelling. I love your entire KZbin video series on Mallory and Irvine and find myself watching them repeatedly. Indeed, I learn a little more every time I watch them. The only other ingredient I would add to the mix are considerations for Mallory's physical stamina, climbing skills, and intelligence, which were second to none. One gains terrific insight into his character and mindest through the book Climbing Everest: The Writings of George Mallory, which I just finished reading. Mallory's writings provide deep insight into his personality, physical stamina, intelligence, and superb talents as a climber. It is abundantly clear from his writings that he was far more than just a "school teacher and holiday climber..." Mallory was a physically fit and superbly talented climber who was also blessed with a remarkably resilient body to the effects of cold and high altitude. One is also left with a deep appreciation and respect for Mallory's mind and how he meticulously and painstakingly studied everything about Everest during the '21, '22, and '24 expeditions. No stone was left unturned, and he took in every scrap of information he could get his hands on, visual or otherwise, to continually prepare himself and forge a plan for the most direct route to the top. He was singularly focused on climbing Everest, and nothing would get in his way. All of this is painstakingly clear in his writings, and I highly recommend this book to all Mallory enthusiasts. It is the final ingredient to understanding the man, which leaves me convinced that he made it to the top on June 8 and, sadly, died on his return. I'm presently reading Into the Silence: The Great War, Mallory, and the Conquest of Everest by Wade Davis. This book is a breathtakingly vivid and detailed account of the early Everest expeditions. As importantly, it provides a historical perspective of that time, particularly the brutal and harrowing experience of WW1, which forged and shaped the mindset of these early climbers.

[@michaeltracy2356]

I really like Into the Silence. Wade Davis has an upcoming book signing and lecture in California. If you can make it, I highly recommend it -- at the Bowers museum. I attended the one he did last month and it was excellent.

[@conorC19H7]

This channel has imo, become so fundamentally important for those becoming entranced by the Mallory/Irvine mystery. Well done Micheal this is a very compelling argument. Keep us updated on the crowdfunding, This footage would do much more good in the hands of the public.

[@lisatitirangi]

Count me in on a fundraiser. You've done enough for us to trust your judgment on the best use of resources to uncover any truths that are still uncoverable at this time.

[@jongowing5775]

He made it, there is no doubt in my mind, they was no way he was giving up knowing it was his last chance. Took the risk and lost his life but he made it.

[@SilverJ56]

Count me for a contribution for the drone photos. The photo of the mountain that you show predominantly in this video seemed very clear to me. Thanks for your logical research. The lady who collected and kept the statistics of the climbs! Put a smile on my face! Real definition of an esoteric study!! Thanks again, very exciting, looking forward to more!

[@QED_]

They don't make them like that woman . . . any more.

[@dannydevito5729]

Michael, I've watched your entire channel this weekend. You've got some of the best, most well researched videos I've ever seen on KZbin. Thank you for putting all of this together

[@Allan-et5ig]

Great video. Extraordinarily worthwhile; not only for 1924 expedition buffs but for the insights into the mysterious oversights and 'hazy' memories of Pollard et al.

[@cherylb2008]

Those dark glasses in the pocket speaks volumes

[@Bella.216]

Wow, the video was worth the wait!! I want to shove this video down Thom Pollard's throat. I'm sorry for being so damn salty but I seen his new videos and got into a rather bad argument with him. I also wasn't happy about his click bait title of Irvine found. I will say and am in no way being rude to anyone else who believes Mark's book the third poll. I never had issues with Mark as a person but I call him out as literally promoting a book and monetary gain for claiming he has proof that Chinese removed both Mallory and Irvine from the mountain and they are in possession of a camera. I called out Pollard, I called bullshit. He obviously didn't agree. I am the few of your followers who call others out on how Mallory didn't borrow Somerville camera. I don't trust anything Pollard nor Mark says at this point because if everyone remembers Mark and Pollard lied to the sherpa on the plan was to look for Irvine. The documentary from national was more of the mountain than looking for Irvine. I was disappointed. I agree on the time of the watch and also agree that one of them probably was stumbling because of how late, thus one may have pulled the other over. Which may be why Irvine isn't on the mountain. If he didn't fall he's on the mountain under snow. I will support the cause and will contribute money to the footage to be released!!!! Hopefully now the one's who were brain washed can start to clearly think for themselves! Thanks Michael 😊

[@Talpiot8200]

Pure logos like this is so rare today. Thanks for all your work and for a glimer of hope in the post truth timeline. God bless

[@georgielinscott]

Yes! Finally! All jokes aside, the analysis/theory/research you present is the most convincing so far, and I’ve already been calling this video a ‘historical exposè.’ Thank you for giving these men a voice, a century after they dissapeared. Also, totally in for a drone footage GoFundMe.

[@michaellongridge1523]

The f escaped my Parkinson’s index finger and I can only apologise. As for your research, thank you so much. Mike

[@michaeltracy2356]

@@michaellongridge1523 I thought it was from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_F_to_pay_respects

[@Ronin-ke5wm]

Wow thanbk you so much for this video. The part at 9:40 detailing Jochen Hemmlebs view of Anker and Hahn, just confirms in my mind that Odell did indeed see Mallory and Irvine at the Third Step.

[@drstrangelove4998]

Odell was renowned for his superb eyesight. If he saw two moving dots on the mountain, he was seeing Sandy Irvine and Mallory.

[@robertbruce3641]

Michael, from your videos alone, it is clear to me that George Mallory's body is currently the single most forensically-rich trove of information relevant to determining the outcome of the 1924 Mallory and Irvine summit attempt on Everest. I've heard a generalized consensus, especially among the team of climbers who found Mallory in 1999, that his body should now be forever left alone out of respect to his family and to his own dignity. George Mallory, could he still speak today, would undoubtedly disagree. He is one of the most well-known people in the history of the world, not just in climbing circles. The full and complete understanding of his legacy would be to George Mallory far more important than the thought to leave his body alone out of respect for him. Without any doubt, he would want his remains on the mountain to be used in every possible way to help clarify the details of his and his partner's effort, for which they sacrificed everything. Because there is so much more information there that hasn't been uncovered - which you have made so clear - it is important that an expedition comes about to bring a team of forensics experts to his resting place on Everest so that a thorough, professional investigation can be done. This is what would honor Mallory and Irvine. This is what George Mallory would want and expect. His willingness to risk his life, the loss of his life - this is his voice which is still alive today.

[@09stoneheart]

The most important evidence that could be found on his body would be the rocks from the summit. It would be a long shot though because the 1999 team, being made up of climbers and not archaeologists or forensics experts made it clear they were looking for a camera an would probably have not given any regard to a hand full of rocks in his pocket. Thus, there is only a slim chance that the rocks are still on him. And, of course, there is the obvious moral issue of having to, once again, disturb Mallory's body and rifle through his pockets.

[@arsenal10141014]

They disturbed the body twice already. Time to let him rest I think. Otherwise, new reasons to examine him over and over will occur over time - new technology… Let him be. Understand your points tho.

[@richhughes7450]

Totally agree. Very well put. The body was lost for 75 years and as you say, it's the best source of info to help solve the mystery or at least shed some more light on it.

[@davida.4933]

@@arsenal10141014 But you would probably be ok with corpses being incinerated to bits and pieces and then bleached to sand like particles as is done with cremations. There is no insult to a corpse being treated that way or being pecked away by ravens or the weathering over the centuries. A corpse has no thoughts or pain or ego. Any emotion is upon other humans, family members, etc. Autopsies including dissections of the deceased are done every day by thousands to determine cause and circumstances of death. I doubt you will be able to find a good forensic authority to climb Everest, but they could educate with protocols and recommendations. From what I have read the corpse is not fully buried and one last investigation with time and tools for a better burial would seem to be logical/appropriate.

[@pcbanerjee7750]

Can't agree more. The argument that his body should be left alone forever out of respect for his family and to preserve his dignity makes me cringe.

[@nicholasmccormick4254]

Everest knows, and so do Mallory and Irvine. And, no others can say one way or the other, without bias. I kind of like it that way. Peace to the lads. 🍸

[@Longtack55]

Another pearl, Michael. I'm pleased that you were able to collate and articulate good evidence.

[@craigt-rr6vd]

Thank you for your sound, grounded analysis. I personally feel like the issue of Mallory and Irvine summiting is settled in my own head, now. I really have a hard time comprehending all the cloak and dagger stuff around this issue/event. I remember thinking when the 1999 expedition found Mallory that no one would dare tarnish his memory or achievement, but here we are. This is one of the singular, sublime achievements in human history. All the fuckery around something that should be venerated is very sad. If some of the other rumblings turn out to be true, the participants will be revealed to have no honor.

[@arsenal10141014]

Superb research and a very compelling argument for them making the summit. Circumstantial evidence is strong and based on probability - more likely than not, they made it. The one additional point I’d add to your list is the fact that Mallory (I believe) expressed that he would go for it even if it cost his life.

[@QED_]

Yes, I think MIchael has said as much . . . somewhere in the previous videos.

[@davida.4933]

Irvine reportedly said the same.

[@alpineazalea8029]

I've been a fan of this mystery for a while in general but I've really loved your videos and how you evaluate new information as well as add different perspectives to old evidence. Thank you for your work, this is great stuff.

[@dkeener13]

this is great. really well done. the statistics that everyone who turned around didn't die and everyone who died didn't turn around I had never heard before, and I have to say I find it really compelling. before this video, you had got me far enough along that I thought it was slightly more likely than not that they summited. this one moves the needle a lot more in that direction. I'm also starting to be troubled by the fact that so many people have information and evidence they are not sharing.

[@Chris-CardVault]

I'm very impressed, Mr. Tracy! Thank You! All points, views, opinions, facts! Have led us this far, to this video! Hopefully! And maybe someday, Irvine's body will be found! I'm confident they made it, to the top! I appreciate your work! And the time, you invested! Not to mention your own achievements on Mt.Everest!

[@Noctifern]

az cards gang!

[@Chris-CardVault]

​@@NoctifernYes, I do invest , ( buy and sell, sports cards! ) its good $$$ revenue! If you know what you're doing! Thank You!

[@TheShauntrainor]

The day of The Watch Video is finally upon us! Count me in for a contribution to the footage fund

[@MTLA1984]

I would be happy to contribute in purchasing the footage. Stunning work as always Michael.

[@jallera5035]

Just discovered your videos in the last couple weeks. I appreciate your efforts and would consider adding to the crowd-funding to acquire the photos.

[@jeffwarren6906]

I as well am all in for a " Drone footage GoFundMe " account . I don't write as well as some ppl do in the comments , but , I have believed in my heart for almost 50 years now that they indeed summited . Now I have { thanks to you } facts to view , and hang onto . I am binge watching all your videos now , and will no doubt do it again when I am finished . There is so much to take in , and consider .

[@anthonywarren3656]

Michael, thank you for your analysis and attention to facts and details. I try to tell anyone who will listen that cares about mountaineering and more importantly the truth surrounding Mallory and Irvine to watch your content so they aren't taken in by inaccurate - whether willful or not - information from others who seem more interested in their image or brand than the truth.

[@boxtankgamer6014]

Babe wake up! New Everest lore just dropped!!!

[@QED_]

LOL

[@elguapo42]

The argument that they likely summited because they died is a mic drop 🎤👏👏👏

[@QED_]

Yes, good lesson in reasoning . . . for us all.

[@Garde538]

Correct Ryan, thank god we have MT to make these theorys and calculated estimates come to life.

[@jlpedro]

But... the question is, what is the death rate when one is still going towards the summit?

[@samsherali214]

I've written an article about this expedition in our local language Nepali. Team Mallory started their expedition right from our himalyan village Kalimpong. One of their guide is from our place too. His name was C.H.wangdi a well educated person at that time. While taking an interview with his son ,told me that Mallory & Mr wangdi became good friends. I found rare album of photographs of expidition at his home .

[@heijimikata7181]

Does Mr. Wangdi’s son feel comfortable enough to share it with the internet? I think it’s very valuable to have more knowledge and/or pictures surrounding Mallory and Irvine.

[@ericclaptonsrobotpilot7276]

I don’t know what’s more scandalous, Michael’s relentless, herculean effort to call out the charlatans in the KZbin marketplace of ideas or that he finally added a profile pic.

[@D.WittYard]

I’m in! Post the link and we’ll take care of the rest.

[@momo1momo]

Thank you for your diligence. Count me in.

[@michaeltracy2356]

In a recent post, Thom Pollard said: "Relating to the whereabouts of SI, I have more information on that, with some possible conclusions, but have not been given permission to share as of this date. Offense of any kind is not intended....this is a team effort and, at least as far as I'm concerned, appreciate the hard work and research of all who are taking part in this... Cheers" (kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZ2whWNur9J0hpI comment by Roger Jackson). And for some reason, I think this one might have some meat on it.

[@stephengreene1856]

I am game to crowd fund for the drone footage. But one question is,How would we know that all of the footage would be released to anyone? Considering the ever present shenanigans going on around Mallory and Irvine,I'm not encouraged.

[@williamanderson5437]

Michael, you present a very professional look at the 1924 Everest Climb by Mallory and Irvine (from Birkenhead indeed two roads near Prenton Park - Tranmere Rovers ground from 1921, are named after each, Everest Road is also nearby). One logical point is overlooked though, camera aside, I suggest Irvine & Mallory would EACH have carried a Union Flag to place on the summit - none was found on Mallory, or with Irvine when his remains are confirmed. They made it to the Summit.

[@jacksonfitzsimmons4253]

Is there any historical evidence for this? Or do you just strongly FEEL this way

[@baldyslapnut.]

Why expend valuable energy carrying excess baggage if there was no means to photograph the fruits of one's labour?

[@multitube1100]

Hi Michael, great video thanks. I inherited a gold Everest wrist watch from my father made by Smiths of England in 1954 to commemorate Hillary's assent. It currently resides somewhere in our house in it's case. You will be aware that Hillary wore a Smiths 'Everest' watch to the summit which I believe still is still in the possession of his family. He also had an endorsement agreement with Rolex following the climb. Watches, it would appear, are a piquant feature of Everest's rich history. All the best.

[@baze3SC]

Also Tenzing's Rolex Datejust worn during the 1952 Swiss expedition is an interesting timepiece.

[@adamfink5744]

Thank you so much for continuing to work on these videos. Based on all the new information that has come to light and your analysis of the data I am compelled to believe that high-resolution images/video footage is likely to answer in part or shed some new light on the story. It is bizarre to me as well that the drone footage has not been made available yet and I would be happy to contribute to its release as well. However, there is also a real possibility that they will not prove to be of value....this is why I suggest considering commissioning a satellite image company to take a series of shots of the mountain over the course of a year. A series of images taken in different snow conditions and at different times of day with the sun at different angles will help answer the questions regarding the locations both you and Jake Norton have identified. Additionally, trying to purchase retrospective satellite images of the mountain could yield a similar result as well (I began searching for such photos after reading the third pole last summer but soon realized that I lacked sufficient funding to do so...and ran into quality/resolution issues as well). Perhaps most importantly, the retrospective view may allow us to determine if at any time one of the potential locations "changed" in appearance in similar light conditions ..... which would suggest whatever was there has been buried/removed. If we are able to create a narrow enough time frame as to when this likely happened based on the dates of the images, we could then cross-reference that with the records of teams climbing that season. I believe this would lead us to more information... At any rate, I would like to strongly suggest some form of a virtual summit (pun intended). I'm pretty sure that if more minds are put to this, in a systematic way, we will have a higher chance of uncovering further information. The two sightings of a body high on the ridge in the 1960s and in 1995 are the best circumstantial evidence we have as to where the body is/was. In my opinion, the body seen in 1975 at 8200 meters was George Mallory and is thus irrelevant. I am sure that there is something to be gained from a conversation between yourself, Jake Norton, and Jochen Hemmleb, and as far as I know, no such conversation has occurred - and I think it would be a good place to start building a search strategy from for any images/videos we come to possess. I am sure you will have no shortage of volunteers to sift through hours of footage or images, but a strategy must be put in place first. If you would like, I would be happy to attempt to coordinate such a meeting. Kind regards, Adam

[@conorC19H7]

100 Years ago today. Two valiant men of Cheshire, who among the snows of Mount Everest adventured their lives, even unto death.

[@BS2Dos]

Firstly, incredible Michael. Seriously. Well done. I’ll need to unpack this over repeat viewings, but you make a very compelling case that - in my mind at least, is pretty damn hard to refute. Few other points that I hope you can respond to if you have the time: 1. Is there any record of what the ‘24 exhibition planned to do if a summit was successful? Raising a flag, that sort of thing? I assume there must have been some protocol in place, but I’ve never heard anything mentioning what the plan was. 2. What’s next for you? Are you putting the book reviews out next? I’m sure you said you’d be reviewing Into The Silence and The Third Pole. I’ve read the former and have the latter, but haven’t read it yet. I’d like to read it before your review. 3. I’d be happy to throw a little something into a collective hat, so will look out for more details once you’ve got a sense of interest. 4. I hope you are planning to put all your research into print. Your contribution and excellent research into the Mallory and Irvine mystery warrants being recorded for posterity. I hope you’re giving this some thought as I’m sure there are publishers out there who would be interested in your work. Well done again, Sir. 👍👍

[@CharlesFreck]

1. It is outlined in a previous video, I believe "because it's there", that the response Mallory gave in official press clippings was that it was a scientific, geological expedition. The goal of a successful summit was to collect rocks. Other then that, I've never seen any evidence of any protocol for summitting. Look around, go "nice job chap, we've done it!" and head back down collecting rocks as you leave. Certainly, Hillary and Tenzig weren't given a flag raising protocol when they reached the top. They took some photographs (though Hillary didn't even bother with one of him at the top, showing how much even in the 1950s photographs weren't necessarily seen as a must. Imagine someone summitting Everest today and going "nah, I'm right mate, no photo for me") I'm not even sure how they would've proposed to raise a flag at the top of Everest, lacking a flag pole.

[@BS2Dos]

@@CharlesFreck It’s a curious point given the disappointment of losing the race to both poles, you’d have thought some procedure to fully substantiate a successful ascent would have been in place. Then again, back then an English gentleman’s word was probably sufficient verification rather than any hard, tangible evidence. Still, I’m surprised a Union Jack or picture of the King wasn’t packed for summit day.

[@barneyrfd]

@@BS2Dos I agree, no written evidence of it but can't imagine the Brits not wanting to raise the Union Jack on top of Everest...

[@BS2Dos]

Wow! Here it is. The wait is over! 👍👍

[@lisatitirangi]

Yes. Here we go!!

[@GildaLee27]

17:40 "So now, let's look at the watch..." Extremely interesting video. Thank you, Mr Tracy, for the years of work and (I gather) years of mountaineering experience that went into this analysis. Although some years ago I read that Krakauer book on the shambolic '96 season, mountaineering is not my bag. (It simply does not compute for me why anyone would voluntarily put their own precious body up that high where every breath is effort.) But I got into mechanical watch repair videos for stress relief these past few years, so KZbin sent me this fascinating gem. I keep thinking about Mallory's watch, up there in repose with him in his right trouser/pants pocket for all those stone cold years. Is it really thought to be his WWI officer's watch, the watch he would have used *in battle* including through the Battle of the Somme, which he survived? Anyway, the hands of mechanical watches are driven by a chain of wheels which is powered by the mainspring. Because the crystal aka cover was missing, the unprotected hands came into physical contact with the contents of Mallory's pocket and the fabric of the pocket. These would have caught the hands and stopped them, thereby stopping the chain of wheels within the movement. This happened when he put the watch in his pocket. After he fell, the hands were still caught up on something, and they eventually rusted in place. The mainspring would have retained, for all those years, the energy George Mallory wound into it on his final morning. What the nub of the issue is this: We cannot use the time told by the watch, roughly 1:25, to estimate the time when they fell. It is far more likely that the crystal came off earlier that day, not at the moment when he fell. The hands were caught up or intermittently caught up and prevented from moving around the dial from the moment he first put the watch in his pocket. We don't know at what time that happened. But we can safely assume he did not do it during the 10-15 seconds that he was falling. The crystal-less watch with caught up hands only tells the time when the hands last caught on something and stopped the entire watch movement. The fall did not break the watch. The watch was not broken. The movement was found perfectly intact, without rust, and it even reportedly *resumed ticking* when the rusted hand stumps were removed. 21:48 We know it survived without damage from the fall because it was found essentially undamaged. When the rusted hand stumps were removed, releasing the chain of wheels, the watch resumed functioning/'ticking'. Speculation: after he put the watch in his pocket, the watch hands *intermittently* travelled around the dial when they were not caught up physically by other items in the pocket or by the nap of the pocket fabric. His gait would have jostled the contents of his pockets a little, the tiny watch hands completely unprotected, being caught up, then released, stopping and starting. It is possible that he checked the time (not knowing it was inaccurate) and based on that time, made the decision to go for the summit. Lastly, a crudely-educated guess: the watch which laid with Mallory for 75 years was found with the exposed dial, within the pocket, facing the mountain, with the back of the watch facing the body. Had the exposed dial been facing the body, it's likely moisture would have seeped down through the clothing into the movement. Once in the movement, with no outlet to drain away, the moisture would certainly have caused significant rusting that would have bonded together the many tiny delicate parts rendering the movement completely inoperable. rusty watch rescue video for reference: Destroyed Vintage Elgin A-11 Military Watch Full Restoration [by Wristwatch Revival, a great channel] kzbin.info/www/bejne/npvXgatjhpmtjas starting at 4:00, removal of crystal revealing rusted & disintegrating hands, rust in movement, etc. Astonishingly, in Mallory's watch, there was no rust in the movement which indicates no moisture had made it past the dial into the movement. So the guess is that for 75 years, the exposed dial was facing down. Let's hope Irvine's body is someday discovered with summit rocks in his pockets.

[@sharono4245]

Thanks for sharing your expertise about watches! Very good points.

[@falcodarkzz]

The large problem with this analysis is that you assume he put the watch in his pocket with the crystal cover removed. Possible, but an assumption. Also (and more likely) he stowed the watch in his pocket before setting out, with the cover intact, so the hands would not stop when being stowed. Then the cover broke during the climb. By far the most likely point for the cover to break was during the 1000ft fall. While the watch is undamaged, the cover could well have broken from a shock impact, as the alethiometer cover had broken too on his person, while the device was intact. Thus the watch would have stopped after the fall, likely soon after when it was pressed against the fabric of his clothing. There are of course other possibilities. The watch broke after ascent of the third step for some reason, but it would have to be very soon after, as you say his movement may have intermittently allowed the hands to move. Given the window of possibility for this to occur is so low...I'd say it's far less likely. Especially because the climbing after the third step is far easier, there aren't rocks to scramble over, nothing to really shatter a glass watch face, just snow and one of the easiest parts of the trail. I doubt he'd have broken it after the 3rd step, but we know he ascended the 3rd step after 12.50pm, so given the watch time, it was either stopped then, or as you say, far earlier to intermittently tick to a later time. This is far more likely, a breakage between 6am and 12.50pm. With what evidence we have, Occam's razor will do just fine. The cover broke in the fall, the watch stopped, the crude 1999 excavation missed the broken cover fragments (tiny as they'd be) when removing the watch, hardly suprising, as the watch was face down the fragments would have collected on the fabric not the watch face. If the watch was removed while face down, the fragments would spill onto the ground immediately and go unnoticed to a less acute eye, and upon turning the watch over the rusted hands and naked face would be revealed. Given the position of the body, and the events, and the time it was stuck on, this all seems likely.

[@donadams5094]

If I had to pick just one sequence from all of Michael's videos to counter the Second Step/Ridge Route myth, it would be from 9:38-12:00 of this one. Where Odell saw them is at the crux of the entire mystery, and while there are other important points to consider, those made in that segment are enough to settle the matter. The Third Step is not only where Odell initially said they were, it is the only place that lines up with all we now know about what they intended and what they actually did. The story has been clouded by prominent figures like Conrad Anker, but if we set aside all the personalities and politics and simply look at the evidence forensically, it isn't really much of a question. Even criminal cases are settled "beyond a reasonable doubt," and this passes that test quite comfortably.

[@triangleman100]

A riveting, and terribly exciting documentary ...................💭💤💭..................

[@hexadecimal7300]

Very interesting. I always thought they made it after reading a Sunday Times Magazine article around 1970. The conditions looked great even to my child eyes.

[@TheSaxon.]

As a "casual" observer, who is fascinated by this topic, even i have the north east ridge seared into my mind but you do have to take those few seconds each time, just to make sure what you're looking at is correct. If you don't take these few seconds, look from different angles, assume, or just palm off the little details in books/articles to subordinates, then it's very easy to misplace the steps.

[@jimporter6084]

Thanks for your detailed discussion. Can't wait to see the NG video.

[@ARXDMOS]

Rock solid analysis. They most definitely summited i just do not understand why there is so much bias against them from all climbers that have written books and done "research" on the topic

[@michaeltracy2356]

One aspect is the "professional climber" bias. There a a definite snobbery with "professional climbers." They find it unbelievable that two "amateurs" from 100 years ago could climb the world's highest mountain. I suspect there is more to it than that, but certainly the snobbery is a big part of it. The second part is that the people involved were all part or connected to the 1999 expedition. Even Mark Synnott, who was not part of the 1999 expedition is friends with Thom Pollard who was. It is tough for the 1999 expedition, and I do feel sorry for them. It wasn't really their fault, but they were not searching for summit rocks and thus blew the chance to solve the "greatest mystery in mountaineering history." However, if there was no way Mallory and Irvine made it, then they didn't really blow anything. It isn't really helpful to have people who essentially botched the whole thing continue to participate and pretend like nothing happened. This is why it is always one expedition member "interviewing" another expedition member and they conclude that everything was done just fine and there was no need to look for summit rocks or that they really did look for summit rocks.

[@ARXDMOS]

@@michaeltracy2356 honestly more pathetic than sad, The silver lining is that Mallory and Irvine live rent free in the heads of the "proffesionals"

[@michaeltracy2356]

Oh, I think those "professionals" have found a good way to turn a profit from this "mystery." No money in a solution.

[@DocManhattan56]

Thank you for your meticulously researched videos. Count me in for the crowdfunding effort.

[@ACshinealight]

Loving the Chanel and content. Incredible detail on one of my favourite subjects.

[@fjdididiididid1238]

Been waiting for this !!!!

[@dianebays5484]

Ill forever feel that they made the summit. Its just so ething that makes me happy to think. God bless their souls.

[@robinbowers499]

The utube messner route coverage is great- I just read National Geographic and saw the erroneous route for the solo messner Everest. I thought I was the only one focusing on that error- so fun!

[@gimmethegrass2493]

Hi Michael, thanks for taking so much time to research and release this information. One thing though; in the UK we would pronounce it Ir-vine.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Perhaps now, but the way Andrew Irvine pronounced it is reported as "Ir-van" -- I was told his by Sandra Noel, daughter of John Noel yeas ago -- she has since passed away.

[@gimmethegrass2493]

@@michaeltracy2356 It seems that you remain undefeated. 👏

[@michaeltracy2356]

Oh, I screw up plenty of the other English pronunciations...

[@matthewmiller8297]

Thank you, well done. Maybe now Mallory and Irvine can rest in peace.

[@jamescowan5754]

It’s taken me a few watches of these videos to appreciate Mr. Tracy’s powers of deduction. I am not a mountaineer, but I think he is right that the British did indeed summit in 1924.

[@jasonwroyal]

Wow, amazing work. Definitely down to chip in if crowdfunding is needed.

[@poponachtschnecke]

I love the crowdfunding idea! Also, I've been trying to get in to Philosophy Between the Lines, but all the references thrown out at the beginning have me wondering if you have any suggestions for prerequisite readings. My focus in school was more math related, so I'm worried I might be missing some good dry humor in the everything leading up to the first chapter, and that that might be a theme throughout the book.

[@QED_]

This is a contentious topic . . . going way back. Here is a video that addresses it in general terms: kzbin.info/www/bejne/on6ZaX-ZmNyaosk

[@michaeltracy2356]

I just went back over the beginning of that book and I don't see anything difficult about it. The premise is fairly simple: For thousands of years, philosophers have hidden the real truths they are trying to tell inside parables, riddles, and other esoteric writing. This is hardly a novel concept, as presumably people know that Animal Farm is not really about talking animals. My main criticism with Philosophy Between the Lines is that it repeats this same theme over and over and the book could really be about 1/2 its size and have the same information. The book starts out with a lengthy quote from Goethe where Goethe explicitly states that authors do engage in this type of writing. So, it would help if you are familiar with Goethe's work. If you can't tolerate Goethe's rambling, a similar theme is in Phillips K Dick's Exegesis. And if you are hardcore and want to just jump in way over your head, you can start with Jung's Red Book. I will just comment that none of these writings contain any "truth." But you can get some idea of what these authors perceive as the truth.

[@poponachtschnecke]

@@michaeltracy2356 Thank you so much!

[@rancewalleston5109]

I would be interested in donating to get the footage. Please post details.

[@kencusick6311]

Well worth the wait. I’d chip in on a go fund me

[@tomcuesta8262]

Very thought-provoking! Looking forward to seeing more

[@TailGunner1978]

Thom Pollard said the following in the comments on his video which is really interesting : "Hi Ken, yes, the existence of rocks could put him closer to the summit. I brought down all of the contents in his pockets that were located on the front of his body, and unfortunately I found none. (At the same time, there aren't rocks located on the actual summit.) All that said, the absence of rocks also doesn't tell us that he didn't make it to the summit. Additionally, there was no camera, nor was there the backpack he wore to carry oxygen bottles, no ice axe, gloves, even a boot was missing from his left foot, as were his spare pair of glacier glasses. Were I given a time machine to go back to 1999 with all the information I've learned since that day I might do things a bit differently. However, Andy and I were meticulous in our search. The end result would probably be the same: there were no rocks in his pockets."

[@michaeltracy2356]

Thom Pollard was not with the team when they found Mallory on May 1st. He encountered altitude sickness and headed back down the mountain when the rest of the team headed up. I have no idea why Pollard says stuff like this, but he was not there when Mallory was found. He was already down in advanced base camp when the pockets were cut out and carried down. Therefore, it is impossible that he carried them down. Perhaps he carried the cut out clothing down to base camp, but I fail to see how that would help him determine what was originally in them. The initial search was done primarily by Jake Norton and Tap Richards. Some of the video of the search is online, and you can easily verify that Thom Pollard is not there. Pollard was there on May 16 when they dug up the body and did the second search. However, by then significant pieces of the clothing were already removed and the contents of most of the pockets already removed. More curious is his various other equivocations about "there aren't rocks located on the actual summit." While it is true that the absolute summit of the mountain is covered in snow, Hillary and Tenzing both managed to figure out how to collect summit rocks, as did the 1960 Chinese team and the 1975 team has a picture with the caption "Crystalline limestone from the summit of Qoomolangma". Also the "missing boot" is not really missing. Part of the boot was recovered -- you can see it listed on the Royal Geographic Society's website. (rgs.koha-ptfs.co.uk/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=1569) It is the very last line "Fragment of left boot." It was likely on his foot the entire time and decayed off. The socks on the left foot similarly decayed away and you can clearly see a bare foot in the photos -- with the scraps of the boot and socks right next to it. The team knew about the second boot as can clearly be seen in the video of the find: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3fVYn6ajpuUn9k "second boot appears to be on his foot." Curiously, it would have been Thom Pollard and Andy Politz that recovered that boot fragment on May 16. So, it is not clear why Pollard no longer remembers that aspect of the part of the search that he performed. There was not a "spare glacier glasses" known of. The idea that he had two pair of goggles has just been speculation from the beginning. Although some internet "researchers" claim a second pair is visible on the photo of them leaving high camp, this is nothing but an internet myth. The myth has the second pair stored on the outside front of Mallory's belt. Upon close inspection, it is not a pair of goggles but merely a piece of rope. It would not be normal to carry a pair of goggles in such a place as they would become scratched up very quickly. When Mallory left North Col, he had the pair on this head. Whether he had another pair hidden in a pocket remains a possibility, but nothing more. Pollard and Politz returned on May 16 to dig up the body exactly because the first search was not "meticulous." They returned with a metal detector because they thought there was a distinct possibility the search had missed the camera. At least, that is the story told by Mark Synnott in The Third Pole. Other members of the team have said the search was not adequate and if they could they would do it completely differently -- namely, Conrad Anker. Conrad Anker has stated the search was like "a bunch of punch-drunk kids at altitude. And it was about us, not Mallory. When I watch the [1999] film now, I just cringe.” ( www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/everest-mallory-anker1?loggedin=true ). Nor could the second search have been "meticulous" because we do not know which pocket the watch was found in -- was it the left of the right? We do not know whether the face was against his body or not. We do not even know who found the watch as the initial accounts say Andy Politz found it. And now Pollard claims it was him who found it. And even if they were "meticulous" at the time, the failure to write any of it down calls the entire thing into question. Of course, now 23 years later, Thom recalls it all with exquisite detail, but one is left wondering how he acquired such an excellent memory and why none of it was written down. Pollard provided an account of the second search in 2004 (www.everestnews.com/malloryandirvine2004/mallorywatch.htm ): " Shortly after arriving at the site Andy powered up the metal detector. We hoped it could do what our eyes couldn’t: pick up the location of Mallory’s camera. I crawled around on my hands and knees going after anything that made the metal detector blip: a metal clasp beneath Mallory’s chin held his leather helmet tight; hobnails on his boot; and, a broken watch inside his pocket." Missing is any reference to checking any other pocket that did not make a "blip." This account is significantly different from the account that appears in The Third Pole. The gloves were found. Anker reported 2 found, and one is in the Royal Geographic collection, so it is not clear how the RGS has one of Mallory's gloves when Pollard says none were on the body. No one has explained how two gloves were found and only one remains, but a reasonable explanation is that someone on the expedition pilfered one of the gloves for a persona souvenir. Pollard is now saying there were not signs of frostbit on Mallory, but a photo shows his fingers clearly darkened: www.pinterest.com/pin/561120434817974496/ Now, Pollard knows all of the above. And yet he keeps telling any fool that will believe him the same story. The following is taken from the book Cognitive Biases: Confabulation Memory bias In psychology, confabulation is a memory defect defined as producing fabricated, distorted, or misinterpreted memories about oneself or the world.[ irrelevant discussion omitted] People who confabulate exhibit false memories ranging from subtle inaccuracies to surreal inventions and may also confuse or distort memories' temporal classification (timing, sequence, or duration). They are very confident about their memories, even when confronted with conflicting evidence. I have no idea why Thom says what he says. But it should be obvious that his "memories" do not match up with well documented facts and that he remains confident about his memories even when confronted with conflicting evidence. Of course, I would not say this means he has any type of brain damage. Numerous people on that 1999 expedition have the same tortured relationship with the truth.

[@TailGunner1978]

@@michaeltracy2356 The depth of your research is fascinating mate. Let's focus on the rocks because I'm really interested and i need your knowledge to understand. Thom Pollard and Andy Politz did the second search and according to him they did look for rocks but found none. Jake Norton and Tap Richards did the first search and maybe they were not looking for rocks but still if they had found some in his clothing they would have recover them as everything else they found....no? What else they would have done with them?

[@michaeltracy2356]

@@TailGunner1978 That is the revisionist version they are telling now, but it is contradicted from well known and documented facts. From Rashomon, people tell stories that make themselves look better, and you really have to examine the psychological aspect of this. They screwed up the "greatest mystery of mountaineering." There is no way around that. Now, their story is that they didn't really screw it up because, conveniently, there was never anything there. The photos taken of the clothing show that it is ripped up. The account of Wade Davis says they were the ones that ripped it up: For several hours the search party hacked and gouged the frozen ground with ice axes and knives, prying up the limbs, crudely tearing at the clothing, creating the very cloth fragments later so carefully cataloged as rare specimens at base camp. Davis, Wade. Into the Silence (p. 569). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. For this, I believe Wade Davis' account because he reviewed the video years after the event took place and he was writing about it as an outside observer. I understand that Jake feels differently about how the search was done. However, I believe the clothing was "crudely" torn apart and that doing so prevented any legitimate search for summit rocks. So, if you have rocks in a pocket and you rip that pocket up such that it has a giant hole in it, then the rocks will fall out, and you can search the pocket as thoroughly as you wish and you will not find any rocks. The photos of the clothing shows a massive hole in the front pocket. At that point, it no longer matters what Jake says. He could not have meaningful searched the pocket because any rocks would have fell out the massive hole at the bottom. I also point out that known items were not recovered. That is, the altimeter was broken. Clearly, it was in his pocket when it broke and the pieces from the glass covering would still be in the pocket. And yet, not a single piece of glass was recovered. A review of a description of the search shows that Jake was not looking for anything but a camera and he did the exact opposite of what a detailed search would have done. In Ghosts of Everest, Norton thought the camera was in a pouch around Mallory's neck so, "Carefully, he cut open the bottom of the pouch with his knife." There is no reason to do this. What if rocks fell out? How would you then know which rocks fell out -- he is surrounded by rocks. What was the urgency to open that pouch? Why not simply take the whole thing down the mountain and examine it there. Simple. Because they were not looking for anything but a camera and if a camera fell out, it would be easy to see on the ground. More problematic is that while they all say, "hindsight is 20-20 and we would have done things differently," they offer no reason they should have done anything different. If they really found everything, then why would you do it differently? Why spend 3 days excavating if you can find everything in just 1 day? The notion that somehow in the haste and confusion of the May 1st search, they managed to find every possible clue is simply not believable. The biggest reason it is not believable is that they managed to miss a watch sitting in Mallory's pocket -- and yet the same person tells you they would have found summit rocks in his pockets. How could you find rocks if you didn't find the watch? And most problematic of all is that numerous photos exist that have never been released with no explanation. Supposedly, they did not photograph his face, so it is not clear what piece of him they are trying to protect. And numerous options exist to clear things up. For instance, they could release the audio of the 1999 search without the video. Of course, they will not do this, because we have Wade Davis' account of them cussing and swearing the whole time. None of this matches up with the supposed carefulness and "respect" they claim to have shown. For the limited photos that Pollard has released, the body is covered in rocks and it is difficult to believe Pollard's account that he could then search any remaining pockets for rocks and not find any. I can see in the photo on page 388 of The Third Pole that his pant legs -ripped open, and full of rocks -- likely the rocks he was buried with on May 1st. But to say there were no rocks is contradicted by the photograph. I also find it difficult to believe someone who says they searched the pockets when they were not there to perform the search. If Thom cannot distinguish between May 1 and May 16 and provide an account that makes sense, I am not going to try to parse it to figure out what he is saying. He could just provide a clear account of what he saw, but instead it is like trying to figure out some riddle. This is not the way legitimate researchers describe their findings. And of course, the elephant in the room is --- why were they not told to look for summit rocks in the first place?

[@boxtankgamer6014]

@@michaeltracy2356 Off topic, but Pollard said the watch was facing towards Mallory's leg and not outward when I asked him: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGmuipKNbMynj5Y&lc=UgwcF7fKWSYB3MJCGRJ4AaABAg.9av5RQ324539avb8lPAo2C. Top comment.

[@TailGunner1978]

@@michaeltracy2356 Thank you so much.That was really enlightening....and depressing.

[@PaulFurber]

Ahhh. Here we go.

[@lifesahobby]

Thanks Michael , great to watch after a morning swim and a cup of coffee . . Have you seen that manga film on Netflix about the Japanese climber who had the camera and died .

[@eagerestcrab2030]

Michael I’ll gladly throw money at the drone footage!

[@paulajohnson139]

Extremely plausible. Thank you.

[@MARKETMAN6789]

Thank you for this very interesting video

[@jimmyzbike]

Keep up the good work. Fascinating

[@mfsperring]

Somehow I missed this when it came out. I had watched a few where you referenced the watch video and it didn't twig until I was watching the 1,000,000 views video and saw it in the list below. I like the idea of the crowd fund and would definitely contribute. Alas I suspect that it is more about politics then money but you don't win if you don't play.

[@tballstaedt7807]

A very compelling arguement.

[@traycrust]

Hi Michael, is the Irvine location in the 2017 video still the one you subscribe to?

[@dblackconductor]

FYI, the photo of the watch with the hour hand still attached has now been published in the book by Robert Edwards, just released: « Mallory, Irvine, and Everest ». Which was a fascinating read.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Would be a good book if not so riddled with errors. But with so many blatant mistakes -- such as the location of the 1933 high camp, it ends up being another piece of historical fiction. Fundamentally, it tells a good story, and there are facts that support that story. Unfortunately, so many mistakes leave one wondering what is accurate and what is not. We started to "fact check" it over in the Yeti Academy and it just turned into a joke -- way too many inaccuracies. That the author just assumes the 1960 Chinese made it to the summit is a sure give away that it is not an unbiased and critical look at historical events.

[@johnny5red42]

Michael Tracy is the TRUTH . Thank You 🙏

[@mathieuvalade9632]

To add on your video by looking at the Himalayan database since 1924 out of the 119 people that died above 8000m. 97 summited, so Mallory and Irvine have a 81.5% chance to have made the summit if Odell sighting is at the third step. (which I think you proved)

[@broderickmcdonald4416]

Oh yes here we go

[@draisine1609]

I have been following your videos for some time. I am interested in helping with the drone footage crowd funding. Keep up the good work.

[@offlicence134]

I'm definitely interested in contributing to a crowdfund.

[@Farallonjoe]

Interesting content, I'm not a climber but I am bit of an explorer and Everest has always interest me. A couple observations from an outsider... The May 1st and 16th folk almost seem to be hiding something. Like maybe they took some things for their own collection that perhaps could shed more light but don't want to confess so they muddy the water? private collectors, i assume, would pay a lot for some of Mallory's summit rocks or even a letter. Probably not likely, they were probably not 100% in those conditions but just wanted to throw that out there. I have heard similar accounts with regards to Native American sites which came to mind watching this story. when was the 16th trip planned? is it certain the watch was retrieved on the second trip or is it possible they made it look like it was found on the second trip? I have mixed feelings about Nat Geo. They wanted free footage and work from me years ago, I later came to learn from an accomplished explorer that it is their MO. I asked for compensation for anything beyond my already gathered footage and they didn't reply for months. I find it interesting they wont share the footage for that reason but probably should not be surprised. They did end up donating some ROVs for outreach which i still use today, for that reason, all is forgiven. Just wanted to offer a little insight with my brief experience with Nat Geo. I would say to just keep asking, they are slow, but may come around at some point.

[@chucknorris5788]

They made it to the summit: my heart knows this, my gut knows this, and nothing else even makes sense. Those men were absolutely determined, and relentless. Irvine said in his journal that if they could get close enough, they were going for it, and if it was a one way ticket then so be it; that was their mindset. Mallory knew this was probably his last shot, and he put all his cards on the table. When they summited, they knew they were in trouble. They needed to start back down immediately, but they needed proof. Mallory carefully placed the photo of his beloved Ruth as he had promised, and quickly handed the camera to Irvine to snap a photo of him standing on the summit. There was no more time; Irvine hastily tucked the camera into his coat pocket, and they started back down as weather conditions continued to worsen. That camera is in Sandy Irvine's pocket, and God willing, what's inside will re-write the story of Everest. That camera is the holy grail of mountaineering history, and long have I dreamed of gazing upon that photo of Mallory standing on the summit, with a confident smirk, and muttering under my breath for all the skeptics: "Told ya... " 😊

[@falcodarkzz]

alas Irvines foot has been found, and in glacier. If the camera melts out too, surely the film will be destroyed, if it wasnt already by the 7000 foot fall.

[@rossi23rdsub]

Please write a book including all of your research🙏

[@stevethagod]

Great research and great video. Definitely one of my favorites to date. Do you think it’s possible that something was found on the footage (I.e the body, etc), and it’s being kept under lock and key until someone who knows the truth can set up a expedition to go in? I bet if someone found the body in that footage they would want to be the one to go in and find him.

[@michaeltracy2356]

It is reasonable to think they saw something. Whether it is a clear picture of the body or merely a good indication of where to look would not make much difference. Also curious is that the drone footage would give a good idea of the steepness of the zig-zag route and certainly there is no body there. And yet the only photos they release are of the area East of the warts which have neither a body nor any section of the route they climbed.

[@shakeeloniel8891]

It's true though see you later

[@axmajpayne]

It would certainly make sense. There doesn't seem to be much reason to withhold the video unless there is a financial incentive to do so, and having a strong enough clue as to Irvine's resting place that they could do an expedition to find his remains as soon as the Chinese re-open the mountain would certainly be a pretty big financial incentive.

[@harmyjo]

I would be very interested in contributing to crowdfunding these drone images.

[@scottsmith4145]

Michael, this is by far the most fascinating video of this entire series! I have been following your vids from early on now yet have some catching up to do it seems! So ive started over by reviewing every video from the start. I always believed Mallory's watch was an important piece to solving this mystery. Years ago I googled every image i could find of the watch to try to determine the time it stopped at but gave up determining there was not enough in the photos to determine any specific time. Im not good at reading rust marks! So imagine my joy to find this recent watch analysis video and especially to hear that Thom Pollard has a photo of the hour hand in tact! Im looking forward to reading the full analysis of how the time was determined without the hour hand in place. I must say its very concerning that the photo of the watch with hour hand was not released and seems completely unavailable on the web. Has anyone contacted Pollard and asked him for a copy of the photo? I dont see why there should be any secrecy in this matter. If there is then it only serves to support a conspiracy to cover up a Mallory/Irvine summit.

[@williesnyder2899]

That we will never know, and never really know WHY we will never know, is perpetually frustrating!!

[@biorr6661]

Thanks for the video Michael and call me in for the crowd funding

[@shable1436]

Funny how nobody wants Thom to have anything to do with Irvine now, that came straight from his recent vids

[@awralls]

Hi Michael. Thanks so much for publishing your extensive research; I find your conclusion extremely compelling. I wondered if you had a view on Pete Poston's take on their likely O2 consumption? I see he has now revised the plot of is fictional account of the summit climb to reflect a couloir route, but he still has them running out of oxygen around the third step and turning back.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Poston has them leaving two full bottles in high camp and then turn around because they didn't have enough oxygen. They used less than two full bottles to climb to high camp, so what were they planning on leaving the bottles for? Just so that his theory works. More curious is that he has the oxygen bottle now moved up to the base of the First Step, also without any comment as to why it was reported so much lower for decades. Not a single published book has a map with it at the First Step, and no one wants to talk about it.

[@awralls]

@@michaeltracy2356 Yeah, a bit of digging into the subject of the O2 bottle(s) could be illuminating although I seem to recall you saying that you had no plans to do so. One other question, if I may: I'm all for chipping in to your crowdfunding for acquisition of the drone footage from 2019, but does that mean you've abandoned plans to go back yourself?

[@michaeltracy2356]

In terms of going back, the North side is closed. On the North, the Chinese limit the number of permits. When it reopens, the number of people going up looking for the body they claim the Chinese removed to find the film they claim could not possibly have anything on it, will be overwhelming. There are numerous people looking for Irvine, and many do not say anything. So, it would be great to go back and maybe have another crack at it, but the likelihood of getting a spot is extremely small. And I suspect all the "Really guys, he is not there" talk is from people who are going themselves but don't want 100 other people there doing the same thing.

[@jhs1710]

Crowdfunding sounds great!

[@virgil1016]

I would donate to get this footage released. Been waiting for the last 20 years for them to find Sandy since I discovered the story.

[@EmmaHurst-j7f]

As far as the watch goes: it looks like it was only worn on ONE of the buckle settings, possibly the second one in from the smallest setting as the indent in the strap appears more pronounced by the second hole. That would seem to indicate it would be worn the same with both regular clothing and any clothing worn here (or kept in a pocket). That’s just my observation as far as the watch goes…. Make of it what you will. Excellent video here.

[@Hilooknofurther]

This is fascinating!!

[@KDSima]

I am only a recent study of Mallory and Irvine but there is another reason I think they made it. The fact that Mallory didn’t have the camera. I read that Mallory had asked the other climber for his camera bc he had forgotten his; and that he was the one w/the camera. It seems as though, after making it to the top, at some point he asked Irvine to take his picture. He was not carrying the camera on the way down. Would he have given the camera to Irvine if they hadn’t reached the summit? What is wrong w/that rational? Just watching your video where u covered that HE DIDN’T borrow the camera. Oopps.

[@perrysims3320]

Very detailed! Rappelled, not repelled. ;-)

[@michaeltracy2356]

Thanks.

[@auzmo]

I think i might put your reasons in reverse order. To me the Odell sighting likely at the 3rd step and his certainty that they likely made it (selling the idea that his spotting was topping the 3rd step) is some of the most convincing reason they made it. Then the letter and photo of his wife missing might be even more convincing than that. I cant imagine a scenario where he leaves those items anywhere without it being a summit. Then Goggles in pocket are convincing to me that it was a night retreat. Then I would say the nexr most likely reason for a summit that they used oxygen. Was possibly even a better system than modern ones and capable of working on it. Next that they died as the next most likely reason. On the way up they would have been thinking clearly and stronger and not likely to make a fatal mistake like falling off the mountain. Did anyone really ever had a fall like that on the way up in the near the top in the years before modern attempts? Almost everyone dies on the way down not up. They would have been many times more likely to make a bad decision or misstep without light or oxygen. Perhaps the watch at 1:27 is 1:27 am and roughly the time of death or a little after when it froze? I dont put much stock in the watch either way, but I think the crystal possibly coming off during the fall makes a lot of sense. And/or Perhaps the piece/pieces fell out with all the body work. Either way it being in his pocket really doesnt tell us anything.

[@АнтонШкателов]

Полность согласен!!!!

[@federicofelloni1509]

Dear Michael, I’ll happily help you purchasing the drone footage. If I were a more experienced mountaineer, I’d also offer you my help for a future expedition.