Mandalay

One of Kipling's best known and best loved works. Bellamy's setting is by no means the first, though some previous efforts have failed to reflect -- perhaps to recognise -- the strong element of pathos and underlying bitterness.
"Mandalay" was inspired by the reminiscences of participants in the third Burmese War (1885-90), ending with the overthrow of the tyrant King Thibaw. Kipling himself visited Burma in 1889, falling deeply in love (his words) with a girl sitting on the pagoda steps just as he described.
The poem has also been one of many to arouse hostility. Some claim it to be patronising; a claim that simply is not supported by the text -- perhaps an instance of critics seeing what they want or expect to see. Far from patronising the East and its people, the singer genuinely craves a return to his "cleaner, greener land". Kipling is describing a clear case of acculturation, before the term was current, but it is the English soldier who is the victim, and it is Burma and the Burmese -- or at least one Burmese -- that he considers in every way superior to England and its inhabitants.

[@starcorpvncj]

I was born in India as part of the British Raj. We retuned to the UK in 1952. I emigrated to Australia in 1964 and spent 18 years is the Oz Army. I have been to over 50 countries and lived and worked in many of them. At 71 I have now lived in Vietnam for 18 years. I have my own 68 year old 'maiden' here. There are many rootless expats like me here in Vietnam, though a lot less than before Covid. Whenever I hear this poem I think with dread if I'd ever have to leave my 'maiden' and this 'sweeter greener land' as have so many of my expat friends over these long years.

[@npickle54]

sounds like a pretty cool life

[@starcorpvncj]

Just an added note. For those who don't know, this was written at the time of the 'Third Burmese War'.

[@hohetannen4703]

Why would you date an Asian woman, with no hips, tits or spirit

[@studentaviator3756]

Thanks for sharing your life with us.

[@oldhippiejon]

My old man fought right through Burma and finished in Mandalay. He told me many times about the people there, it was no joke when he told us he loved them, the kindness they showed to the troops.

[@Kholdstare1987]

This song always makes me shed a tear. Though this is about Mandalay, my family came from Indonesia. Several generations were raised and died there and mixed with the natives, and everything we had was taken away from us. Left with only what we could carry we were shipped off to Rotterdam. The stories they told about their homeland, you could feel the pain how they were robbed of their home, their work, their family, friend and traditions.

[@starcorpvncj]

But Dutch cause many problems wherever they go due to being arrogant and stingy. In South Africa and Australia they are hated for these traits, too. Just telling it as it is.

[@gwennelson683]

There is a very good book "Lost White Tribes" which tells of colonists in various countries who remained when the country gained independence and shucked off colonial status. Very sad.

[@decorman]

I served in the RN in the sixties in Singapore and Far East ,loved it and know exactly what this poem is about

[@aranstuart566]

nothing but respect, my grandfather served in Singapore with the royal marines and my father spent some early years out there as a boy. your service deserves more recognition and respect than you’ve ever been honoured. you have nothing but thanks and admiration from me. my grandfathers stories from his time out there inspire me to become a commando and follow in his footsteps. thank you for serving ❤️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@gladyslustgirdle3004]

I fear that you would not recognize Singapore now. From the 3rd to 1st world in one generation. But with every gain there is a loss. Even so, sir, indeed, "the ten year soldier " was correct in his comment about 'eeding nought else but those spicey smells, and tinkly bells.

[@gladyslustgirdle3004]

I forgot to note that this is the English my grandmother spoke, and God Rest her Soul, but I sit here with old and tired eyes, sobbing into my cupped hands.

[@deusvult539]

@@gladyslustgirdle3004 We understand where you are coming from, Gladys, and keep your memories alive.

[@bobhas1]

Brings a tear to a glass eye that, Kipling loved the Burmese people, almost every word is witness to that, yet he has been vilified.

[@PhilBaird1]

A beautiful rendition of this emotionally complex ballad; the bitterness of war tinged with regret and longing. The anti-colonial narrative has long been a tired cliche, and Kipling was about more than that. He was one of our finest war poets and spoke for the ordinary trooper in their own language. I find this version utterly compelling and totally authentic.

[@charlesmaximus9161]

@Chase Williams agree with everything you said, except for the “outdated beliefs” bit. That’s ridiculous.

[@deusvult539]

@@chasewilliams5128 It's nice to see you revisiting this rendition as often as I do. Kipling is timeless.

[@13thearl]

God this takes me back. Peter used to kip on our floor when he gigged in Warrington and his take on Kipling is in my opinion definitive.

[@Hollcall]

My "NANNY" was born inn Warrington. Villlage of Stockton Heath. Came to Canada @ 1904. Grand Dad was a VET of the African Campaign. Settled in Sydney N.S.

[@McDonkeyable]

I've been to Burma and to Moulmein Pagoda (shown in the first and second picture) and to Mandalay (third picture) and walked the path where Kipling describes having fallen deeply in love with a Burmese girl sitting on the steps of the Pagoda. This version is wonderfully bitter and nostalgic, as the description states; for good reason - Burma is a deeply affecting country, which leaves a mark on you. Those people who claim this poem is patronising are simply missing the point: it really is about the longing for a 'cleaner, greener land'.

[@victorverma7459]

I am from Burma, it is very nostalgic, brings tears into my eyes.

[@uptonsavoie]

I've been there also and found the poem very accurate. I miss the Orient.

[@TheTranceCartel]

It's just a love song really

[@deusvult539]

@@victorverma7459 So true, Victor, so very true

[@martinhealy2902]

Great and fascinating song. Peter Bellamy reaches deeper than any other I've heard.

[@tobiaslinde8042]

This song made me love the English language...

[@edronc2007]

Me too hadn't I loved it before. I take it you are German, so am I.

[@fds7476]

@@edronc2007 Kollegen!

[@HenryVandenburgh]

Ich habe gern das ich als amerikaiisher Soldat Deutsch gelernt habe.

[@S0l1DShark]

To all the good memories, cheers.

[@TheTranceCartel]

To any young man who ever had to leave behind a girlfriend in Southeast Asia for whatever reason, I feel this song is relevant

[@deusvult539]

So very true The Trance Cartel. I would not leave mine behind in the 1960s. So much so that we married and have been for the past 55 years. I wonder how many old soldiers regret leaving their lovely Asian girlfriends behind all those years ago.

[@Cryolemon]

Doesn't need to be a girl and doesn't need to be Southeast Asia.

[@TheTranceCartel]

​@@CryolemonYes it does

[@michelleblack8258]

I love Kipling's poetry. "The dawn comes up like thunder' always stirs me. i have now listened to a few different versions of the song, having only known the Peter DAWSON, lEONARD WARREN VERSIONS OF THE TUNE. bUT THIS TUNE IS SO MUCH LIKE AN OLD AUSTRALIAN FOLK SONG, WHICH PROBABLY means it is an Irish traditional song. I would like to know the name of the original Irish tune. (sorry about the capitals. Not shouting!)

[@paganphil100]

Michelle Black: Parts of this tune sound like the Irish rebel song, "Rising of the moon".

[@stevesuffet]

Peter Bellamy, an English songwriter, wrote the tune. The vocal is by David Webber, another Englishman.

[@HenryVandenburgh]

This makes me homesick for Korea at least 70 years later.

[@MFvanBylandt]

The Brits sang this in Korea?

[@HenryVandenburgh]

No, but the situations were parallel.

[@deusvult539]

There's, no doubt, a story behind your comment, Henry. Wonder if is the same as this one.

[@amandaclarke5286]

Welcome back Mandalay is still the same. Come visit burma.

[@SnakeEater82d]

Not all soldiers hold people in ridicule who are different, not even back then. There is a phrase that I believe started with the British Army back then, 'going native', where the soldier gave up his 'christian' upbringing & background to take on that of the locals from seeing something they preferred over how they were raised.

[@Abdulhakeembennette]

I "went Turk" myself and I can partly see myself at one time reflected in this song. If I'd guess, the character in this poem is halfway to going native at the point he's speaking here, you can feel the struggle between two worlds (and the primal spirit as a third combatant) in this wonderful poem.

[@bowerfilms]

My grandfather was with the British Army in India in the 19th century and then got posted to Ireland... I'm sure there are many who could make much of him being an 'imperialist lackey' (change the record....), but both places left their profound, indelible print on him and there was something about his experiences that left yearning for the rest of his life.

[@Hollcall]

The CREW of the BOUNTY would ATTEST. hahahahaha

[@connormclernon26]

I know I'm going to catch flak for this, but I could have sworn I've heard this tune on Spongebob Squarepants. Also, this sounds so much better than the other versions I've heard.

[@cbsk341]

In the Spongebob soundtrack, the tune is called "Botany Bay," and there are several variations, so you're correct.

[@paganphil100]

Connor McLernon: At least this version has the correct words/lyrics (unlike some other versions).

[@siggesaltens2663]

FANTASTIC

[@johnobrien7722]

Great setting

[@mrdaz68]

Some people need to appreciate the poetry of Kipling and the interpretation Peter Bellamy has made of Kiplings poetry instead of getting on their high horses and waffling on about the evils or otherwise of empire.Its boring.Unfortunately we can't all be as perfect,understanding and nice as those that criticize the generations that believed in empire,colonialism etc.

[@flashtin166]

+mrdaz68 I can't thumb you up again but you're still bloody right.

[@patricknorthrup7708]

Hugo DBPHuguenot That sounds about right. Unfortunately, that sentiment has come to America as well.

[@justcomments1239]

I agree It's wrong to judge people of the past with today's morals.

[@Pauline6247]

dʒeɪms And confusion to her enemies.

[@Bignewshound60]

Agree - its a great poem but it is not something to be recited anywhere - not Boris Johnson's inappropriate use of it on a visit to myanmar

[@hu3bman]

Anyone here from that one episode from The Crown?

[@gregorypeckary3163]

No, but I went to The Crown because of the poem

[@jordansinclair281]

Is this the same tune as Lazy Harry's (Road to Gundagai)?

[@Theimpracticalelf]

Jordan Muhammad oh shit, nice catch!

[@shanemills9167]

@@Theimpracticalelf It's actually an Oild Transportation song, called "10,000 Miles Away" sung by a convicrt about to be transported to NSW where he hopes to reunite with his Sweetheart, Meg, transported before him. Probably Irish in origin. "Road to Gundagai" was written by Jack O'Hagan n the 1920's and sounds quite different. I pmuch refer this version of "Mandalay" to the pompous, Rule Britannia , flag waving version I learned as a youngster.

[@ferdia748]

how is this patronizing?

[@suemulvihill]

I never realised how sad this song is until hearing it without its imperialist tune. Many thanks.

[@HugoDBPHuguenot]

+Sue Mulvihill Yes, the poem is all about a soldier stuck in London and bitterly missing Asia. There is something that happens to a Briton who goes East of Suez. As a kid, I had a gap year between Balliol College and reading medicine just as the American's pulled out of Vietnam. I had hoped for a stroll through India and Thailand. But arriving in Thailand I found there was compelling work to do. A huge humanitarian crisis was forming on the Thai borders, with millions streaming north or west from Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia (the killing fields). I joined a little NGO, and latched onto, as young men often seek mentors, the Wise Man of our little group, an elderly but energetic Scottish surgeon. First order of the day was arrival of our most critical medical tool - not an MRI or ultrasound machine, but a huge WWII-era lorry with a gigantic clean water tank. By day we built shelters, and tended as best we could to the exhausted, sick, wounded, shot, pregnant, and old by night. Thirty-years on I am a very qualified Trauma Surgeon, a "Chief" teaching in a world class centre. But with all of that, I swear I learned more from that old Scotsman and many thousands of very remarkable, very decent people than all that followed. I truly understand Kipling's soldier thinking of his "sweeter maiden in a neater, cleaner, greener land."

[@EzekielDeLaCroix]

You can also make it less sad by increasing the song speed!

[@suemulvihill]

Yes indeed, speed the music up and it becomes quite sprightly. However, Kiplings poem remains the same - all the best Sue

[@hultonclint]

Old comment, I know, but can you clarify what you mean by "imperialist tune"? I'd like to know more about why whatever tune you're thinking of is "imperialist." (I'm not arguing at all. Simply intrigued, and wanting to know more.) Thanks.

[@McDonkeyable]

@@hultonclint something like this, I'd imagine: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5m4Y5-LirB1eZY

[@JoeBlowUK]

Who came here after hearing this was banned by the BBC today?

[@blob22201]

was it banned? Didnt see any stories about that

[@fds7476]

Nobody, because it wasn't banned.

[@cjbrod5067]

@@fds7476 it was banned from VJ day

[@fds7476]

@@cjbrod5067 Source?

[@leehotspur9679]

Was that before or after the Saville episode

[@helpsitee]

Peter Griffin fucked up 💀💀💀💀💀💀

[@stevesuffet]

While this is a great performance of an equally great song, there is good reason for the controversy. Even when Kipling praises the Far East, as he does in "Mandalay," it is through the eyes and with the voice of a British imperialist. The soldier-narrator may be low man within the imperial hierarchy, but he is still a part of it. As for the young Burmese woman, she only has meaning in relationship to the British soldier. For her native culture and Buddhist religion there is only ridicule.

[@ourluxor]

So? Our "enlightened" generations cannot possibly be held responsible for the (now seen as) unacceptable attitudes of those long-gone imperialists, who imagined that they were bringing advance and salvation to uneducated and heathen foreigners. These poems and songs are for us to enjoy, they aren't a history lesson!

[@mikem9001]

"For her native culture and Buddhist religion there is only ridicule." Utter rubbish. You have read the poem but seen only what you were determined to see already. Of course Kipling shows us Burma through the eyes of a low-ranking British soldier - that is the point of the poem. And he does it brilliantly and respectfully.

[@edronc2007]

"Even when Kipling praises the Far East, as he does in "Mandalay," it is through the eyes and with the voice of a British imperialist." What is wrong with that?

[@CecilJacobs77]

It’s the opposite of ridicule, it’s admiration and longing

[@stevesuffet]

@@CecilJacobs77 Here is Kipling's unedited text. I do not see any admiration nor any longing for the native Burmese culture. All I see is sexually aggressive colonialist contempt and ridicule. An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot, An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on an 'eathen idol's foot: Bloomin' idol made o' mud Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed 'er where she stud!

[@Bignewshound60]

totally agree... but it is also a disturbing tribute to my country's evil colonial past

[@edronc2007]

Without your country's evil colonial past Indians would still burn widows at the stake.

[@Chewable396]

Grow up. If it wasn’t for the empire there would be no pagodas and shrines to a 1000 gods to admire. Sikhs, Hindu, Jains, Buddhists, all still have their ways of life of preserved instead of some bastardized desert death cult you can find north of the Khyber Pass.

[@Dryhten1801]

bootlicker

[@emilymortimer-webb8551]

weird shitty, creepy words obviously but the tune is so nice. can't get over the evils though.

[@johndoee4742]

I don't see any, "creepy weird shit" in the lyrics but ok. Not to say it is normal, since people tend to like their own more, but nothing particularly weird other than that. Seemingly you came in with a predetermined idea about the origins of this poem.

[@oliversykes8464]

Shut the fuck up apologist

[@user-wu6xl4wq5q]

Rather hostile.

[@fds7476]

Don't be daft. The lyrics are completely innocuous.

[@emilymortimer-webb8551]

@British Pride okay guy with a Hitler profile picture, you got me there, my name is Emily and I believe in those things. Damn. I'm wounded. This is it. This is how I die. Tell my family I love them.