Mandos, Doomsman of the Valar & Keeper of the Dead - Epic Character History

Mandos was the Doomsman of the Valar and the Keeper of the Dead in Tolkien’s writings. He was mysterious and grim rather than evil, as his part was necessary yet unsettling in Arda. Happy Halloween everyone! Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts on Mandos in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

A Valar that carries a heavy burden. But even the most cold of hearts, there's an warm side --- Moved by Lutien's song, and he allowed the two lovers to be reunited as humans on their new life.

[@Makkaru112]

And became JRR and Edith

[@lisboah]

Mandos gives a warning. Everyone else ignores it and bad things happen due to this. This is pretty much the Silmarillion in the nutshell.

[@Rotisiv]

This is what happens when you don’t take the quiet kid seriously.

[@rhythmicmusicswap4173]

Nah ,switch it with ulmo

[@TheMarcHicks]

@@rhythmicmusicswap4173 Both Ulmo and Mandos.

[@orrointhewise87]

"I do not fear death" Probably not the most popular Valar but most certainly one of the most important. Without him there is no death and ultimately no peace or rest. My favorite encounter with him is when Luthien sang a song so great it moved him. For a moment the immense of his charge was lifted and I'd like to think he cried a single tear, something he'd never done before.

[@aarontrupiano9328]

there was one particular scene in one of the king's quest games that has to be a reference to that

[@RoastedOpinions]

Mandos remembers the music of the Ainur better than any in Arda. Remember that the Music reveals the history of Arda as it was sung, including all of the discord. For Mandos, his predictions are simply recollections of what happened in the Music as it was sung. He remains silent because he knows what will happen, and speaks only when Manwe bids him speak because in speaking he robs others of their free will: one who knows what will be is robbed of hope. His silence is merciful. When the world is remade in the second Music, many wrongs will be righted, but even Olorin knew that evil could remain evil and yet be necessary. How much more so does Mandos know this? He is Valar and greater than Olorin, the wisest of the Maiar. He speaks only when speaking fulfills the Music, and only when Manwe who knows best the mind of Eru commands him to speak. There is a reason in this beyond the understanding of elves and men, and in his silence many secrets are hidden that are better to be hidden, such as the fate of dwarves after the world ends. In this, Tolkien neatly divides absolute knowledge and free will, so that both may exist. It was a very clever act on his part.

[@generalindex9906]

Interesting take! I'm just wondering whether there could be any evidence in the First music of the Ainur regarding the emergence of the Second Music? Could Mandos have interpreted any signs for that or any other Valar for that matter, or would it be too far fetched for them and the Second Music would almost come as a "spontaneous" reset from Iluvatar or, which is more likely, have been reserved in his mind for when time would come for it to blossom.

[@RoastedOpinions]

@@generalindex9906 Based on the evidence in the Silmarillion I believe that Mandos and his spouse Vaire are critical to the playing of the Second Music. The phrase associated with the Second Music is "when the music will be played alright"; Vaire weaves the record of all things into her tapestries, which adorn the Halls of Mandos. I think that it is up to Mandos and Vaire to disseminate the "score" of the Second Music so that everyone who joins in the singing knows their parts.

[@hobbit1953]

your opinion, at least in the mind of this follower of all things Tolkien, manifests a deep understanding of Tolkien. Thank you for sharing your words.

[@DanTheYoutubeAddict]

Mandos has always been my favorite of the Valar. I just find it so cool how he is god of both the dead and prophecy. I think Tolkien had a very clever idea for his story's afterlife. Thank you for covering Mandos.

[@LOTR22090able]

I like to think that Mandos basically respawn spammed the slain elves during the War of Wrath, in the vein of Edge of Tomorrow

[@Count.Saruman]

Two stories about Mandos that tell you just how *frightening* this Vala could be: 1)When Eärendil landed on Valinor to plead for the Valar's aid, Mandos immediately recommended that he be put to death for breaking the ban. 2)When Morgoth was brought before the Valar to be judged, it was Mandos who personally cut off his head before his unclothed spirit was thrown beyond the doors of night. Alone among the Valar, he alone seems to have possessed a certain detachment and a singular aloofness, and appeared completely, emotionlessly dedicated to Eru's grand plan. It lends even more weight to how unfathomably, devastatingly moving Lúthien's song must have been for even him to be affected by it.

[@ErelasInglor]

Not quite, for he had emotion, and he did indeed have pity for the dead who he kept. “The song of Lúthien before Mandos was the song most fair that ever in words was woven, and the song most sorrowful that ever the world shall hear. Unchanged, imperishable, it is sung still in Valinor beyond the hearing of the world, and listening the Valar are grieved. For Lúthien wove two themes of words, of the sorrow of the Eldar and the grief of Men, of the Two Kindreds that were made by Ilúvatar to dwell in Arda, the Kingdom of Earth amid the innumerable stars. And as she knelt before him her tears fell upon his feet like rain upon stones; and Mandos was moved to pity, who never before was so moved, nor has been since.”

[@Count.Saruman]

@@ErelasInglor I said 'appeared', not 'was'. That incident proved he did have some pity within him.

[@165Atlas]

It's interesting how being the Valar of memory and wisdom, he became the keeper of those who ultimately leave all memory behind: the dead

[@likac92009]

Actually, in Tolkien legendarium, Elven Fea (spirit) keeps memory within itself and if those memories are bad and upsetting, it takes a lot for Fea to be healed in Mandos before being reembodied.

[@MenoftheWest]

I forgot to shoutout a Valar tier patron, Alex Grimes! Thanks so much! Thank you all for watching!

[@paulwagner688]

I'm also having a headcanon moment where, as the Dagor Dagorath begins, Nurufantur goes to the Forgotten and offers them the final choice, and Tar Calion repents and fights for the Valar.

[@likac92009]

It would be interesting to know how Namo was approaching the problem of trying to heal Feanor in the Halls of Mandos.

[@hobbit1953]

Feanor's ultimate healing depends on Feanor. Feanor must truly desire his healing which requires setting aside the unhealthy dose of pride that he insisted upon cliinging to...just one old guy's thoughts...

[@Makkaru112]

@@hobbit1953 he’d be able to when he gets to reunite with his dearest mother Miriel in Mandos. 💕🥰🥰🥰💕

[@jacobshore5115]

He’s kinda like the Hades of the world of Tolkien, isn’t he? Complete with bringing a loved one back to life, only unlike Hades, he didn’t make any conditions (that I know of) that would separate Beren and Luthien again.

[@OrangeMapleLeaf]

Orfeo and Euridyce....

[@wja.nielsen17]

Well, he did say she had to give up her immortality…could that count?

[@shauntempley9757]

Mandos is indeed a composite of Hades, but of the old gods of mythology, he is the closest to Anubis in how he operates in the lore. Specifically the judge aspect that he is famous for.

[@LordTelperion]

All hail Lord Pluto. May he grant his mercy to all musicians who come before him.

[@izaforestspirit7811]

Happy Halloween! Mandos is my favorite of all the Valar.

[@MasslessWave]

Little Namo: Adventures in Amanland

[@hatuletoh]

An important note on language: Tolkien's use of the word "doom" isn't intended to have our modern definition of "completely screwed," but rather its older meaning, more or less synonymous with "fated." Of course, many dooms were predictions of catastrophes to come, but that's just the nature of any prediction about the future--no one is really interested in a prediction about what they'll have for breakfast next Tuesday. It's a subtle difference maybe, but I think it's important when discussing Mandos to remember that the title of "doomsman" means the someone who knows how things will turn out, not someone who makes bad things happen.

[@Heros101]

It's fun to think about how much power Mandos actually has himself or whether or not his power is primarily in sight or even simply in understanding what specific events would inevitably lead to. As you said, even with Beren and Luthien he went to Manwë whom then went to Eru. Happy Halloween Yoystan 🎃 You sir are the best.

[@kaidorade1317]

Ah Mandos. He makes parties Dead upon his arrival

[@Thomas.Wright]

MANDOS: The Hand of Fate.

[@whiteknightcat]

I see what you did there!

[@thedreadtyger]

thought it. happier that you said it.

[@carolrondou6161]

😂

[@Alexs.2599]

I have always wondered if there was a small part of Mandos deep within him that regretted not being able to directly help or guide the Children of Eru instead of knowing their fate and basically letting it be. I wonder if deep inside his Fëa it might have rankled him just a little. Anyways once great video Yoystan thanks! Happy Halloween 🎃

[@Comicnut64]

Happy Halloween Yoystan

[@teresaharris-travelbybooks5564]

Another great video. I like the message of the pity and compassion that the Valar; at times; displayed. Such tales keep hope alive.

[@sainiharika]

I can’t thank you enough for creating the video on Mandos.

[@yodaslovetoy]

It's all fun and games until mandos hands out a doom...

[@hobbit1953]

solid

[@Makkaru112]

Doom in this case isn’t a gloomy word. Tolkien himself knew the many meanings and usage of this word. Many dooms were prophesies and warnings of sorts of what literally will come if x y z happens. Think of it as superpsyshic abilities linked with his connection with Eru and his own innate power. But yeah your joke was still hilarious haha😅❤❤❤❤❤

[@c.antoniojohnson7114]

Just don't do what Fëanor did, everything will be fine.

[@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384]

“Can we run Doom on a Palantiri?”

[@sturgeonbowl]

Hello, I’ve been a fan and follower for a while now. Thank you for your videos! I enjoy them immensely. I rarely comment on any KZbin videos, but the Valar have been on my mind lately. They are fascinating characters to consider, especially Mandos with the weight of the knowledge he carries. One has to wonder how difficult it must have been at times for him not to speak what he knew. All the Valar are so powerful and have depth of insight and knowledge, yet they are also limited and finite. Many of their decisions lead to disastrous consequences. While those events had to play out like they did for the outcomes judged best by Ilúvatar, the most aggravating aspect of these creatures is that the consequences of their poor decisions are felt most acutely by the children of Ilúvatar through death, pain, destruction, and disaster. While they certainly grieve, they do not experience nearly the whole of their kindred decimated by evil. It’s a bit hypocritical for them to be so hard on the Noldor. I wonder if as they learned from their mistakes, they gradually changed their tactics because they saw how utterly ruinous the effects were of their direct involvement in shaping the fates of elves and men. More and more they took a backseat and became far more subtle in their aid until they are now barely a mere memory.

[@mberube222]

So glad to find a commentary on the dooms of Mandos! People speak of the Doom of Mandos that pertains to the Noldor, but the more significant one is the impact of the Summons of the Valar for the Elves to dwell in Aman was also a doom, which Mandos spoke without Manwe's asking. This fateful decision had enormous impact as it subverted the will of Eru for the Elves to remain in Middle-Earth, the place of their birth. The Valar also essentially overwhelmed the Firstborn with majesty. The fate of the Firstborn is changed to their detriment. They would have been or should have been always in Middle-Earth, but for the Valar. It's surprising then that Mandos doesn't speak more to caution this course of action which caused so much harm, and was a direct precedent to the revolt of the Noldor. Afterwards, it would seem that the Valar's decisions regarding stewardship of Middle-Earth show poor and callous judgement. They basically abandon Middle-Earth to Melkor and abandon Men, in favour of their only some of their favourite kindred, after having ruined the Elves as a people. They also let Melkor go, after poisoning the Trees, because they don't want him to destroy their home like he's destroying Middle-Earth! Off topic I know, but Mandos seems to have more foresight than most of the Valar.

[@apdarkness3027]

Life is not separate from death, it only seems to be so. Some say that the whole world is a dream, and death the interpreter.

[@Badboyben1422]

The Tale of Beren and Luthien when Luthien sings her song to Mandos and moving him to pity allowing her and Beren to return to life as mortals, is a nice homage to the musician Orpheus who went to Hades in Greek Mythology to bring back his love, by playing a song for Hades moving him to pity.

[@Mark723]

Happy Halloween, my dear lad...

[@marionbaggins]

Man Mellon, what a great pick for Today, (or Tomorrow for most others) the Keeper of the Dead, sounds like something from other cultures....SPOOKY!!!! Man Mandos did so much knew so much and had to Judge such important events, that sounds Hard and Heartbreaking!!!! What a colorful Family: (I know who they are that was what came into my head when you listed them!) Mandos Keeper of Dead, Vairë (his wife) Weaver of Arda, his sister Nienna (Gandalf's Valar) the one who cries, and the odd one out his brother Irmo the creator of dreams and visions!!! At least Irmo doesn't have to do something depressing!!! Well Anyways, thanks for a Spooky video Today, on Mandos' ECH, and Quoting me from last week; "Until Gondor and Anor Try to get together and Lose Kings in the Process...Marion Baggins Out!!!"

[@matthewwilson3673]

Instantly my new favorite valar

[@jackolantern147]

Happy Halloween Yoysten! 🎃

[@BJETNT]

My first video of any kind today!! Thanks Yoysten! Your the best at what you do sir. You manage to teach us more about this amazing legendarium ever time. Your research in this subject is just epic and as far as I can tell unmatched!

[@TheBenzooh]

Nienna is my favourite Valar.

[@alexiachimciuc3199]

So Mandos is like that superstitious dude from the movie Mummy 2 who was constantly saying "this is cursed, that is cursed"

[@alanmike6883]

He has a raw deal yoystan. He is like referred as a doomer yet he's like the one with all the spoilers revealed to him by eru. Like when old biff gave young biff that's sports almanac in back to the future 😁

[@Worm739]

My favourite Valar

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

In the earlier versions of the legendarium, the wife Verfantur was Fui and together they were called the "Gods of Death". Their halls were located in the north of Aman, beneath the roots of the Mountains of Valinor. The character of Langon, who acted as an ambassador for Melko, was originally a servant of Namo.

[@LordTelperion]

Happy Halloween!

[@yodaslovetoy]

Can we take a moment to reflect just how much of a chad Beren was

[@ir8free]

should charlie weber play beren?

[@c.antoniojohnson7114]

He was doing what a man does, Not some word made up by a incel with low self esteem. Chad just sounds cringe.

[@c.antoniojohnson7114]

Beren was more than a Chad,he was a true man. Chads can be little boys,real men sacrifice. A Chad wouldn't give his life to save another, that's simping to them. Little boy mindset.

[@FantasticExplorers]

2nd LIKE 1st comment Big fan Thanks for the vids

[@shanenolan8252]

Thanks. Fine choice ( spooky)

[@abcjuniormilton]

Mandos is an interesting character and this video (the first I've watched in a while) is very enlightening. The part where Luthien is singing to Mandos really reminds me of Orpheus singing to Hades, and both want their lovers back, although in Tolkien's version Luthien is able to go back with Beren while in the Greek myth Orpheus turns back and loses Eurydice. It is fitting that Mandos' wife is the controller of time. He is the controller of death and Eru wants him under control because he is a very powerful Valar. Happy Halloween!

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

Eru doesn't need him under control. He is omnipotent. He can think about it and mandos would stop being there. Even morgoth was always under Eru control. He let him do as he pleased because he thought it would make the song even better

[@bluezauza]

My favorite Vala, along with Nienna and Irmo. They tend the souls, this makes them special.

[@hobbit1953]

very much appreciate your work. Please continue.

[@Huskytabby]

Great video!

[@Relics_of_Arda]

Another great video, my friend!

[@Whatisright]

Mandos is the embodiment of what Oogway said in Kung Fu Panda about running into your fate while on the road to avoiding it. Characters like him or just that consequence are always somewhere in these stories, that "I warned you or told you so" character. In Tolkien's lore, no single character, story element, plot device, macguffin is independent of itself. It all goes back to Illuvatar. Mandos' knowledge of events of life and death is the same as Varda creating stars in the sky. Mandos knows these things in the same way Varda had a need to create stars, knowledge and his word is his power. No one Valar knows Eru's full vision or plan so whatever they lack in direct knowledge they make up for in their actions or decisions. That rule applies to everything on Middle Earth as well. That knowledge of Eru's goal is what motivates everything's actions be it consciously or unconsciously. In a sense knowledge isn't just what a person or being "knows." There's an unseen knowledge that moves them to act, good or bad. When Mandos drops a doom on people is it any different from the Oracle in The Matrix? If nothing gets said, would some events happen as they did, would certain things get broken? Spoilers or hints about the future would influence how anyone acted but that very knowledge of doom is what brings about the prediction. Mandos is a catch 22, his words nudges something in those who hear it. His words have power without even trying to cast magic because they are power. Makes sense he needs permission to speak on certain matters. Probably the most important and underrated line in the lore is what Eru says to Melkor, that no matter what Melkor does it's still part of Eru's ultimate vision. To me that sounds a teacher or master trying to tell his student something. With everything that takes place within the lore, the lesson is very clear to me, it's a line that unifies and foreshadows everything that happens. Although Tolkien's lore isn't a redemption one, if Dagor Dagorath were to happen I could see how one plays out. It would also make the second music of the Ainur make much more sense. It would also play out in the overall motif of Tolkien's work as well.

[@janrudnicki6111]

Very good

[@theodore5540]

I always felt that when ever mados got involved shit was getting real and needed correction

[@themadsnowballer]

It is said that Melkor shared in all of the powers of the other Ainur. I wonder how much of Mandos' power Melkor had and how he used it.

[@Rotisiv]

I like him, he seems like a deathly chill guy. We even share personalities 😂

[@IanHeins]

Nice work dude thanks

[@JTL1776]

@Men of the West. A Theory video REQUEST. similar to your what if thorn survived. instead a more realistic and Tolkien would probably prefer... What if FILI and KILI survived. as the last heir to the lonely mountain.

[@shadowofchaos8932]

I'm going to say something controversial. Could Tom Bombadil be Mandos's form on Middle Earth? Or a Maiar of Mandos?

[@hobbit1953]

perhaps...

[@caspianboi]

Great video indeed, than you. Please could you make us a video and teach us about the Skinchangers from the Hobbit as well as Old Man Willow and the Old Forest from LOTR.

[@glennross85]

Back to the good stuff! ✌😎

[@Davlavi]

Ya I see it would have changed but wish he kept the last battle and final healing.

[@Onehundredpounds]

Love your videos king

[@alanpennie8013]

Not unlike Minos, the judge of the dead in Greek mythology. But a tad less implacable.

[@alanpennie8013]

Minos was associated with the stars via his father (or stepfather if he was the son of Zeus) Asterion.

[@The-Last-Prime]

As a certain Mad Titan and his Avenger arch enemy were cursed with knowledge, Mandos too was cursed with knowledge.

[@paulomorais2066]

Isildur: Keeps the ring. Mandos: Pronounces a doom. Earendil: Facepalms!

[@kirbymarchbarcena]

The silent one is usually the more compelling

[@licmir3663]

Could the children of Feanor have chosen not to enforce their oath in order to prevent greater evil? I can’t imagine God (Eru) punishing them for not fulfilling the oath, even though they sworn it by mentioning him. Would Mandos have punished them?

[@gandalf8216]

Not likely. The oath itself was the crime, as in using Iluvatars name while swearing acts of evil, and they had do deal with the consequences from such an oath. I have no sources, it's only how I interpret it.

[@istari0]

The Doom of Mandos wasn't pronounced until after the Kinslaying at Alqualondë so unless the sons of Fëanor renounced the oath before then, they would have still been guilty of terrible, evil acts and it is hard to see how they wouldn't have had the full weight of the oath fall on them. If they did renounce it before then, I think they still would have been punished although I don't know in what form the punishment would have been given. Perhaps they would have been able to be reincarnated from the Halls of Mandos in a significantly shorter period of time.

[@genghisgalahad8465]

Film Witch King: do you not know death when you see it?? Yoystan: You mean Mandos?? You know I do!!

[@cyphersurf890]

The story of Mandos is very mysterious

[@sashadomonji7569]

My second favourite Valar, after Ulmo

[@TheMarcHicks]

Mandos knew that bringing the elves to Valinor was a TERRIBLE idea.....and he was kind of right.

[@istari0]

I think that Mandos, because of his unique position within the Valar, is bound to be the most dispassionate of them. There are parallels with Manwë as both know the mind of Eru and what was in the Music of the Ainur better than the other Valar and this is why the two of them often discussed the handling of matters of great import together. Mandos is more of a we should follow the rules as written Vala while Manwë is more of what did Eru really intend to see happen Vala.

[@shauntempley9757]

Incorrect. Ulmo knew the most of even these two. Eru is very clear on that point, and it is of the Children he knew the most.

[@istari0]

@@shauntempley9757 From the Valaquenta: "Manwë and Melkor were brethren in the thought of Ilúvatar. The mightiest of those Ainur who came into the World was in his beginning Melkor; but Manwë is dearest to Ilúvatar and understands most clearly his purposes. He was appointed to be, in the fullness of time, the first of all Kings: lord of the realm of Arda and ruler of all that dwell therein.

[@shauntempley9757]

@@istari0 Not about the Children. The later sentences also show Eru talking to Ulmo about a part of the song of creation, and it was entirely about the children. This was after he showed how Ulmo links Manwe and Yavanna.

[@istari0]

@@shauntempley9757 My comment was not in regards to the Children of Ilúvatar.

[@shauntempley9757]

@@istari0 My comment was. The key thing, is both Manwe and Melkor knew nothing of the children, except they would appear.

[@retbookers]

Mandos is also a walking spoiler. 🤣

[@rhythmicmusicswap4173]

earendil entering in aman with a silmarillion mandos" let's kill him"

[@MastaMan88]

Even though Tolkein's spiritual understanding was broken (where are the titans?). I enjoy the spiritual analysis of LOTR. It ignores the reality of humans. It ignores the power of humans. but it is fun to listen to.

[@nicksmacro]

I would like to see a Peter Jackson style scene where Mandos presides over the ascension of Gandalf from gray to white.

[@gillianlovell9578]

That's beyond the remit of Mandos: it is Eru himself that empowers the "new" Gandalf.

[@richandrae188]

I always assumed that Mandos asking for permission was more of a curtesy rather then not having autonomy.

[@GhostOnTheHalfShell]

If Melkor had a measure of Mandos as he had of all other Valar, he should have known better.

[@johnquach8821]

Tolkien's Reaper. A very interesting figure.

[@Toviyah1305]

Do you think now that RoP is over, that The Shadow of Mordor games did a better job at adapting Tolkiens works, or no? I just thought of that because I started playing Shadow of War again.

[@aurum6664]

I wish tolkien have stories about the undying lands. Other than the elves and morgoth escaping. Like maybe a conflict between the valars of some sort other than morgoth. Maybe the undying lands is just same shit different day type of world.

[@godofthehunt9009]

Can you do one of these for orome

[@Arkaeus04]

So uh did you guys hear that Sauron is going against the lich king in the next Death Battle

[@gawreluck]

whats a "doom" is it like an pledge or a type of oath?

[@MenoftheWest]

I would best approximate it to “Fate”. Doom in Tolkien usually means that, and I almost even see Mount Doom really as Mount Fate.

[@gawreluck]

@@MenoftheWest oh ok thanks for clearing that up for me

[@fidogyrenuzanon2335]

I have a theory that I want your opinion on. I find it strange that Melkor is named the villain of the series, even though his list of legal crimes is near equal to that of his brethren. As such, I am of the opinion that, since he was able to match them and destroy all their creations by himself for so long, they should have appointed him as the builder of their projects rather than try to build them in defiance to him. In other words, though he did some things wrong, he was not the main villain of the story. Here are the reasons why I believe this to be true. 1. Eru Illuvatar uses Melkor's own tactics and the other Ainur's abilities to make the third song of the Ainur. Normally, this would pass over the reader. However, considering that the chief God of the Tolkien universe acts in a way that all the Ainur together have the ability to but choose not to is very strange in deed. 2. He was able to be equal to all of them combined in terms of actual achievements. Since he achieves alot in his earlier years, you would think that they would recognize that he would be the one to help them build all their projects, since he alone has the ability to do it. However, as the story goes, they continually reject him and decide to build things on their own. 3. Even though the Vala of smithing made the dwarves and Manwe made the eagles, Melkor was able to make the dragons, orcs, trolls, etc. all by himself. Again, this continues from the last point. If the other vala had let him, he could have created the creations that they wanted in less time then they would use to make them. 4. Gandalf was resurrected and given Saruman's status and position. Personally, I find this factor to be enough evidence by itself. After all, Manwe is very similar to Saruman in nearly every way, and Gandalf is to Melkor. Even though Saruman was the leader, it was Gandalf who was continually honored by everyone, eventually being sent back by Eru himself. While some would say that Saruman might not have fallen if it wasn't for Gandalf, the fact that he did because of Gandalf means that he would have done so anyway (since in real life blaming crimes on someone else who hasn't done anything shows that you are just trying to cover up your mistakes). As such, because Gandalf was "Saruman as he should have been," it is very likely that the same could be said about Melkor and Manwe and that, at the end of times, Melkor will be pardoned by Eru for Manwe's refusal to let him run the building projects. I know that it may be somewhat controversial, considering that Tolkien did not officially state this to be true. However, I just can't bring myself to see it any other way, since in most bullying cases this is basically how it turns out.

[@baystated]

Which Valar was most instrumental at the beginning of the plan to send the Istari?

[@Nunya_Bidness_53]

Tolkien's mythology is oddly like what is called "Divine Council" theology: that, at least originally, it wasn't just God up there, but also His bureaucratic entourage that debated and executed His will. Trouble is, there were too many Morgoths and Saurons in the bunch, so there was a schism. After which God Proper had his people, and the Council were appointed as the "gods" of everyone else, as if to say "Let's see who's better at this 'god' business, shall we?" The outcome is recorded in the 82nd Psalm: "I have said 'you are gods', and all of you are Children of the Most High; yet you shall die like men, and fall like any prince."

[@paulwagner688]

His original name--Nurufantur: "Spirit of Death", with his brother Olofantur: "Spirit of Dreams". I wonder what Nienna's "fantur" name would be. And of all the Eldar who have gone to Mandos, only one remains and will ever remain until the world be made again. For that is the punishment of the Spirit of Fire.

[@Batkoku]

Mandos, hands of fate.

[@suppanutjongjitaree8505]

If all valas are aspect of Iru then does this means Melkor also aspect of Iru and imply that Iru also has evil aspect too?

[@jarredb1120]

Sounds like the sandman idea came from

[@Onehundredpounds]

Based

[@Aequitas_RJ]

Question: When the Valar left the fate of Middle Earth to men at the start of the 4th after, essentially passing on THEIR own responsibilities to men and becoming absent; should Mandos still be allowed to host the souls of men until they leave Arda forever, as was Illuvatar's will. Essentially: should Mandos be allowed ANY responsibility over men in death if all of the other Valar passed on that responsibility to mem in life?

[@laughingvampire7555]

Eru created Melkor & he decided fro Melkor to become evil. Maybe Melkor was the evil inside Eru.

[@mikeroman5208]

Is "ee-roo" how you're supposed to pronounce Eru?

[@marcusblackwell2372]

Why did Tolkien abandon Dagor Daggoroth? Was it because he didn't want to share his beliefs to openly or because he didn't want The Silmarilion to become more complicated?

[@caseygray2328]

Maybe Mandos needs to work on either toning down the dramatic telling of dooms or go even further into the drama, because the ways he has been doing it is clearly not convincing enough

[@stevie-con67]

The weight of doody?

[@Achilliez]

He was depressing, never had anything positive to say! Also he could have told everyone that Feänor’s father had just been slain by Melkor rather than keeping it a secret!

[@MisterTutor2010]

Not to be confused with Manos, the Vala of Bad Movies :)

[@ofb1583]

Even with knowledge only less profound than Eru's about the myriad fates of Arda's denizens, Maiar, mortal or elven. It leaves Tolkien's catholicism shining through that even Mandos could be moved by the feelings/sorrows of Eru's children. Misguided or evil, Eru smiled at the attempts of Melkor & his acolytes to corrupt his original & later themes. Thus only adding timbre & depth to the music, the full range of feelings even sadness, horror & anguish. Yet still with Mandos there was eventual penance & forgiveness. Hope for the spirit of Saruman blown away by a wind out of the west as it tried to return having been deprived of form by Wormtongue's dagger? Plus Sauron, Melkor & the shades of those immortals who chose to remain & wither in Arda, the dreadful sin of pride too would fin eventual succour. Not without price but richer for the journey, suffer unto 'Eru'!

[@jordanmince7613]

if elves who do good deeds can be reincarnated how come gil galad wasn't?

[@istari0]

Tolkien seldom mentioned elves who were reincarnated by name or how long it took before that happened. I suspect Gil-Galad would have been reincarnated but simply remained in Valinor and played no further part in the stories Tolkien wrote.

[@andreigoaga4611]

Utter hypocrisy on the part of an omniscient and omnipotent deity (Eru) in letting its creations take the morally reprehensible path, having them suffer for it, yet all the while knowing that they cannot do otherwise. That it has all been preordained, and they, as emanations on Eru's mind, cannot be anyway but who they are, and, consequently, cannot do anything but what they do. Being unable to alter the music. Yet still letting them struggle, and everyone else suffer as a result of his own Ainur's delusions. Just cruel.