Manufactured Discontent and Fortnite

[@greenredblue]

I love how we’re moving into an age where we have to teach our children about sophisticated psychological manipulation before they’re old enough to even be curious about sex.

[@borednerd5767]

c a p i t a l i s m

[@jvniprbrry]

@@colbyboucher6391 this exactly

[@catsandstuff0]

Did exactly that a few weeks ago. 8yo likes to play the jurassic world mobile game. The conversation wasn't 100% succesfull. He still thinks waiting for stuff makes sense because "dinosaurs don't just appear in a second! And it's a GOLDEN TREX!" But i did my best and he understood some aspects.

[@kakizakichannel]

Fortunately, kids are pretty smart.l, so they'll at least subconsciously adapt

[@owlobsidian6965]

@@colbyboucher6391 I disagree, I believe we need to teach children core values that we know to be effective and beneficial. The reason I say this is that a child can not go head to head against an adult in matters of sophisticated manipulation, especially an adult who's a professional at such things. A child who Is taught to think for themselves would still not have the necessary mental fortitude or abilty to discern, they would still be taken advantage of. Children should be taught and told, adults can make decision.

[@dudeist_priest]

Video game DJ: Drop your favorite emote! 60 broke kids sharing a server: *awkwardly waves at DJ*

[@YTaccNo3]

*awkwardly waves at nobody cause the entire thing was pre-recorded*

[@tellyg7985]

Or yknow, they did the marshmello emote since you got it for free by doing the challenges that were available at the time. It was 3 different dance moves that randomly cycled when you used it. I saw like half the instance doing it, especially people with skins n stuff.

[@tasertag7513]

**Waves at Telly G.**

[@nostalgia_junkie]

marshmello does not deserve the title of video game dj

[@SnivyO.O]

That wave emote is from Fortnite season 8, the concert was from season 7, so they only have that default dance emote if they don't really do any of the quests.

[@leonardorestrepo5196]

I taught middle school science for a bit, and they straight up made fun of one another using the term "no skins." When they said that "no skins" don't necessarily play worse than other people, they clarified that you didn't want to be a no-skin because it meant that you were a scrub or a hack. They didn't know it, but the degree to which Fortnite had indoctrinated them into this thinking was wild to me. It's comparable to what sneakers were back in the 90's, but constantly, every day, and with an even funkier pricing model.

[@fulldisclosureiamamonster2786]

Not even comparable. Sneakers are at least useful in some way, if only to throw at someone annoying. Fortnite's business model is based on something with no practical or artistic value. It's paying to run on a mouse wheel. As a high schooler who knows several people my age who _should_ know better it's absolutely disgusting.

[@TuesdaysArt]

The 90s? Shoes were still pretty huge back when I was in middle school

[@aturchomicz821]

Capitalism man....

[@johnjjohningtoniii2439]

@@fulldisclosureiamamonster2786 It's like they've found a way to remove the product from the transaction. You're just buying the idea of a product.

[@TriteNight1218]

@@aturchomicz821 you mean human nature. Hierarchical structures predate humans by a long shot, and it’s deeply ingrained into the very fabric of humanity. You can’t escape them.

[@DPadGamer]

It's not a wave, its a cry for help.

[@AG-AG]

Deep

[@warrenhardy8979]

She's not waving she's drowning

[@janevoelker2386]

@@warrenhardy8979 you beat me to the quote- I salute you

[@lyndonlives638]

I have to admit I usually tend to watch video essays at double speed, so for me the wave looked even more frantic and ridiculous than it normally would've!

[@MatthijsvanDuin]

She knows she has to keep smiling and waving or a KGB sniper will take her out.

[@arthurm4139]

"This is ultimately the meaning of Game-as-a-Service. Its just a euphemism for a game that takes up all your free time and becomes the only game that you play, because its just an elaborate constantly resetting Skinner Box that utilizes progression systems and seasonal competitions as a means to place you constantly in the path of an endless stream of monetary interactions." - Thank you, Folding Ideas.

[@greenblack6552]

Very well said by him, wish we had more videos like this. I always found games like this to be evil, but I couldn't quite explain it myself.

[@bbhavefun11]

That sums up how I feel about Siege, too 🤦‍♀️

[@dangerface300]

Not that it's not disgusting, but that's not at all the meaning of games-as-a-service, it's just the ubiquitous trend. Games-as-a-service is literally what it's called - games that are provided as a service, games you do not own a copy of and will never truly own the any of the software required to run it. Saying that the above quote is the "the meaning" of GAAS is like saying the existence of a crafting system is the meaning of open-world games.

[@glitchedoom]

@@dangerface300 Sure, if we are looking strictly at definitions that is true. However, what Folding Ideas described is exactly what every game publisher's goal is when they release a GAAS, and to think otherwise is foolish.

[@jammyweegit1144]

@@dangerface300 The quote is the underlying truth of how GaaS are able to exist and operate as a product. The term isn't a genre, it's a monetization model. So yes, the quote is an apt description of the term "Games as a Service."

[@MrCharliebush]

watching this in 2021 and hearing the phrase "non-fungible" knocked the wind out of me

[@Ramsey276one]

WHOA XD

[@tituslafrombois1164]

the word "fungible" has been around far longer than NFTs.

[@spacebassist]

@@tituslafrombois1164 Ive always been a big reader and I never heard the word until last year. Maybe because I wasn't reading finance, but I think these people are smart enough to know that it existed before 2020/21

[@RevolutionaryLoser]

@@spacebassist Strangely enough, I learned about it studying Roman Law a long time ago and what's ironic is that there are not that many examples of a fungible good. Most things that can be owned are non-fungible. It's not a very exciting concept.

[@sameash3153]

​@@spacebassist Yeah, it's more likely to come up in econ and finance contexts. I first heard it in an econ class when talking about currencies. That's the thing, even though the crypto world blew up in pop culture, it ultimately has its origins in both of those fields.

[@zibbbyy]

the hand-waving is making me so anxious

[@henryglennon3864]

She looks like she's afraid that she'll be shot by KGB snipers if she stops waiving.

[@IIxIxIv]

I love it

[@groofay]

Her right shoulder muscles are so much larger than her left that it makes me wonder how long she's been forced to wave like that. While smiling. Likely at gunpoint, because Fortnite.

[@Spodumene]

Elizabeth Lovatt It just makes me angry

[@prankhan3097]

It really started drawing attention to how red her underarm is for some reason.

[@AmmoGlitter]

That feel when you click on a video and think it's an April fools joke but then nope it's actually a carefully researched and well written video essay

[@Dorian_sapiens]

Does that make it a meta-April Fool's joke?

[@NoNameAtAll2]

@@Dorian_sapiens Yes, it does

[@IamBHM]

He tricked us all!

[@ProgramIncomplete]

Fooled again!

[@DewMan001]

"I made a hilarious April Fool's day joke video lolno just kidding!!! APRIL FOOLS lol 😂😂🤣😂 here's a video essay"

[@1337slic3]

"Default" is now a derogatory term being used to mock players that haven't paid for skin customization.

[@moredetonation3755]

It's the new "fuck the poors."

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

Calling someone "default" sounds a lot like calling someone "basic".

[@frenchguitarguy1091]

Reminds me of the f2p or Gibus hate from tf2, an utterly ridiculous reason to be mad at someone.

[@themadpyro8560]

French Guitar Guy I mean, you could get better gear than the gibus pretty quickly in f2p. The gibus joke was more about the players being new than the players not paying.

[@LuiKang043]

GAMERS RISE UP

[@DouglasHollingsworth1]

13:30 - Speaking from someone in the digital marketing ecosystem ... the terms "manufactured discontent"/"hostile design" are also known as "dark design". Look it up. I've employed it in testing. It works. It's why terms and conditions and EULA popups are massive, ungodly walls of text that numb your brain after the first sentence. It's why auto dealer ads on TV and radio have that high speed chatter listing all the legalese at the very end ("we're annoying, you can tune out now!") ... it's why sometimes, for some regions and income levels, some elements of a page may not load quickly. It's small annoyances and inconveniences that get people to do something without directly telling them to do it. And it's terrifying how effective it can be, and almost no one I know questions whether it's morally right or ethically right to be doing it.

[@UniverseConfusion]

thanks for the insight!

[@usoap141]

Do u think Fortnite has the worst model though? I have played Dota 2, PubG , Apex Legends and they have a much more worse model... Similar Battle Pass system but now YOU CAN GET LOOTBOXES... Get level 100? Here have a lootbox Isnt that much more worse than fortnites at least u know what u are gonna get system

[@FenrirRobu]

@@usoap141 I don't find either too dark, but Apex less so. In Apex you get some random "goodies" quite quickly as you progress through the first levels. Next, there's no "show off" period. People don't throw around emotes nor dances, and even the livery on your weapons is somewhat an afterthought. Another example - league of legends, has you staring at champions for days, so there a skin has a lot more impact. My personal conclusion is that Fortnite isn't too bad (no need to protest it in the street or uninstall it), but it takes the cake in a number of aspects presented in this video. However, still no pay to win or whale exploitation, for example.

[@rodryguezzz]

The worst thing about dark design is how people choose to ignore that it exists. Point that out in a post on the internet and people will insult you and defend the product. Even in AAA games, when someone complains about microtransactions and the fact that they might incentive grinding, people will dismiss it by saying "oh you can get the stuff by playing the game".

[@koveltskiis8391]

Capitalism is very cool and good and there’s no reason it should be replaced in a global scale :) :) :)

[@dankeykang4576]

"Yo lemme see your favorite emote" Jesus, he may as well be saying "Yo lemme see yo moms credit card. Yo which a you kids have spent the most money let's go!!!"

[@itsv1p3r]

Dankey Kang if you put crippling financial strain on your parents through addiction to fortnite lemme get a hell yeahhh

[@yourboiaids4098]

"Yo lemme see everybody doing the Orange Justice for only $4.99 in the Fortnite store"

[@chaosax0lotl]

you just know he was told to say that

[@WhaleManMan]

Do you usually dissect the random actions of people as the secret manipulations of evil capitalism? You need to go outside.

[@benjamincarrillo6810]

@@WhaleManMan I think its safe to classify the actions of a celebrity during a publicity stunt as scripted and purposeful. Hell, the event was prerecorded. There was not a drop of originality or spontaneity in the whole thing.

[@MaggotTayne]

It’s interesting how the whole paid skins vs randomised default avatar thing creates a visible ‘class’ distinction between players. I used to defend microtransactions as long as they were just ‘cosmetic’ and didn’t affect the gameplay but, looking at how predatory and isolating these practices have become, I feel like that was a naive opinion.

[@acceleration4443]

Marc J Rogers Its also funny how tfue, a massive content creator who was known for not using/having cosmetic items was literally given skins against his will...

[@Sahdirah]

+

[@Sahdirah]

Acceleration Wow. That’s... dystopian. Does he have the ability to uneqip skins? That very much feels like the company proactively squashing a threat.

[@corn2454]

IMO it depends on just how much is restricted. Plenty of MMOs use similar practices, but they still don't limit your expression to the degree Fortnite does. So it's not as bad if you can express yourself plenty well without paying, but that's only if major things like cosmetic equipment or races and the like are still available without having to purchase them via microtransactions.

[@acceleration4443]

Sahdirah Tfue was known to have a completely free account. Never put money nor bought skins. He had no cosmetics for anything. The used this for his brand... “aka the poor kid who has no skin, but its the best player/he has no skins but all the skills” Then NFL skins came out and epic “accidentally”gave big content creators like tfue it. He complained but then started to use skins... now he uses skins like every other fortnite celebrity. The no skin tfue had a very appealing image, the sort of “pele running around streets in brazil with no shoes and a deflated ball, growing up to be the best player in the world.” Very anti-class, aka skins mean nothing, all that matters is skill. There was also this phenomenon of really good players acting like bad plyers until they get into a 1v1 and show the players who thought he was a no skin bot that he is very skilled”

[@jerner17]

Is this an April fools joke that is so obviously a joke but then turns out to actually be an insightful video? Because well played sir

[@robynhoodie]

Its almost like the actual insight is the prank

[@Superphilipp]

Kyle Kallgren did the same thing today.

[@BustedHeart]

He leveraged the Philosophy Tube anime joke as a setup to a real video. How dare he be aware of his audience. 😸

[@lunarbeing4982]

the only acceptable kind of April 1st joke tbh.

[@muddlewait8844]

I love than Dan can't even intentionally suck without adding real information and genuine value

[@dylan9025]

I feel like "You can enjoy what the Earth Mother gave us but that's not a replacement for a personality" is the overlooked golden quote of this video

[@riccardoorlando2262]

I am an educator. During a conversation, two of my fourteen-year-old boys casually dropped the revelation that they had spend HUNDREDS of euros on Fortnite. Now I understand how that happened.

[@belgoblax1596]

hundreds? that's likely a massive understatement! Even a few years after he stopped playing it, my youngster practically has panic attacks when he thinks about how much he spent on this. Sometimes very much without permission i.e. credit card and identity theft. I dont hate the games or the gamers, I hate the micro transactions. The worst excesses of cyber bullying are being committed by exchange listed corporations enriching a select few, yet again. shock! horror!

[@comradekenobi6908]

@@belgoblax1596 yeah this is the problem with these types of games A newer example would be Genshin impact (which is also made in china, probably has ties to Tencent) Although it's a "free to play" game it does have the gacha loot box system One of the players admits that he spent a hundred bucks on the game, (we'll call him player 1) and another reply to them that "the choice of using the microtransactions is up to the individual" (we'll call him player 2) While yes the way you spend your money is entirely up to you, player 2 completely ignores the fact that _there is also a manufactured discontent, a bit different from other games lien Fortnite as stated here, but the core of it is the same_ and a soft persuasive tactic to encourage people to use the store And as i've played it the grinding is awful and lengthy, making the store seem more enticing to use rather than being an optional feature

[@djizomdjinn]

@@comradekenobi6908 Mihoyo and Tencent are relatively bitter rivals, to the point of rumors of Tencent being behind some of the occasional online hate mobs that brigaded Mihoyo’s games. And yes, gacha is a predatory design pattern that incentivizes uncontrolled spending. However, I have to say that Mihoyo a) has a base game with effort put in, with both temporary and permanent content being added often for all players, and b) puts in some anti-patterns. Players can earn the premium currency used for rolling by playing the game; every 10 rolls a medium rarity item or character is guaranteed; every 90 a high rarity item or character; and limited time characters are both guaranteed to rerun and players can guarantee specific character (the selling point usually for these kinds of games) by saving their currency. Western F2P games are almost universally far worse as a value proposition for free players. If they’re not straight up PvP, encouraging paying to rank higher in the ladder, they almost always have social pressure hooks to pressure players into spending, or extremely blatant cash grabs; usually often in the form of artificial timers tacked on to tasks within the core gameplay loop. The Elder Scrolls mobile game had time locks attached to basically all in game rewards. Want to find out what that gold chest you found in that dungeon holds? Wait 8 hours, or pay up. The Harry Potter mobile game? Literally an endless series of timers attached to tasks, with a payment required to skip the timer, as if it were a book requiring payment by the page. That dragon-based match 3 game Dan played once on stream? Literally a series of exponential skinner boxes ala cookie clicker. I played quite a few F2P games specifically looking at their design patterns and monetization, and even the worst gacha games are leagues ahead of western F2P design in terms of player fairness and… actually being games and not glorified vending machines. If eastern gacha games are games with hooks in them, then western f2p games are a giant hook with a wriggling game speared on them as bait, fishing for the elusive whales.

[@comradekenobi6908]

@@djizomdjinn my man that doesn’t excuse the fact that gacha games are still predatory, _ALL games with micro transactions (which is sadly most modern games) are pretty shady and you should no way 100 💯 percent Just let it happen, because it allows studios the chance to implement more shady businesses_ And in the end mihoyo is a multinational conglomerate game company, not some indie game dev that interacts with their audience and communicates with them You’re not “supporting them” if you’re using the in game purchases, they are not a small fkn studio, not an indie game team, they have 4000 employees The grind of the game is in the end kind of not worth it, as once you reach a high level the game gets pretty repetitive, it gets stale and quite lengthy *And no way I would say a game with micro transactions are better than another game with micro transactions,* because in the end They are basically using a system that encourages you to gamble for a rare chance that you get something worth it in the end, which in most of the time also targets people inexperienced with using money You could watch a video called “manufactured discontent” on how these kinds of games, while no directly, entice people into spending their money to fill their pockets My friend spent 100 bucks of his life savings on Genshit , AND in the end he deleted it anyway for storage space Like wtf? You could buy more useful stuff with that kind of money

[@djizomdjinn]

@@comradekenobi6908 @ComradeKenobi I've watched the video? I say that gacha is a predatory monetization scheme? You seem to be conflating several ideas, some of which have merit, some of which are purely subjective, and some which are just indefensible. - Small companies are more virtuous than large ones. - Large companies don't pay attention to or communicate with fans of their products. - Large companies are all the same. - Microtransactions are inherently bad. - Chinese companies are shady. - The game is boring to you, so it's a bad game. - Your friend spent 100 bucks on a game they ended up quitting. Seriously, step back and untangle your arguments, because you mix in good points with really terrible ones.

[@GGCrono]

It's nice to see some criticism of Fortnite that doesn't boil down to "I hate it because the youths like it".

[@nickprezzo]

It's pretty easy to boil it down to that though. If we're going with Dan's hypothesis, young generations, on the whole, are pretty much the only group with the time-commitment and lack of financial responsibility needed to feel rewarded with a game like this.

[@GGCrono]

@@nickprezzo I think you're giving the majority of Fortnite haters too much credit. "I don't like it and it's popular with children" is reason enough for a certain type of so-called gamer to declare it as evidence of gaming's downfall.

[@vivena9]

@@GGCrono Because no one has better taste,standards and critical thinking about games then literal children...

[@finchhawthorne1302]

Except this one kinda does? It’s more “I hate it let me find reasons why.”

[@Quamikaze]

Danny Boy also does really well by "Fifty Shades of Grey" and gives it a pretty fair shake compared to the vast majority of criticism I've seen about that series.

[@bigsteve3481]

“I kill weed names because you can enjoy what the Earth Mother gave us, but that isn’t the same as having a personality,” is one of the greatest treatises I have ever heard. Expertly thought-out and crafted. Perfect.

[@Butterflier00]

i died.

[@boiledelephant]

Imagine having so little going on in your life that you define yourself by your tepid recreational drug choices...

[@nicoleboudreau2646]

@@boiledelephant Whose ready to drink some motherfucking tea!

[@amaihito]

Wow! When did he say that?

[@AdobadoFantastico]

Best single sentence of the video.

[@Cheshire3Cat21]

Having grown up between the time when games were simply games and where games started to become live services, all I can say is that I’m thankful I’m old enough at this stage to recognise the majority of the predatory things highlighted in the video. To think that Fortnite is mostly aimed at young teenagers with this level of psychological manipulation and borderline warfare with social pressures and monetisation makes me really scared. I’m at least somewhat happy that these tactics are finally highlighted and being considered for regulation, because it is gambling. For kids.

[@VVheeli]

I remember sitting down with my parents and my brother because we wanted to buy a map pack from CoD Black Ops and being warned about putting money into something that I already have while arguing it’s extra maps and extra ways to play. DLC used to impact a lot more in multiplayer games. Now I’m just looking at all these skins and people stealing credit cards like... have we not had this conversation? And have companies lost what defined them from their competitors? It’s the same thing I see every time.

[@masterzoroark6664]

This makes me want to die before the future happens

[@arigadatred5395]

@@masterzoroark6664 Please don't, I'm sure the future will be better somehow with you in it. Besides, you can't fight these things when you're dead.

[@abhyudaykrishna9714]

to be fair, games have always been cash grabs, just in very different ways. watch dunkey's 'video game difficulty: part 1'

[@Cobalt985]

@PixelLightShow I agree, in literally every game the bottom 70-80 players are literal children that don't have the mental capacity to actually be good at the game, and that alone is enough to annoy me

[@friendbotlu3920]

“A concert in a game? That sounds fun!” *a few minutes later* “...Oh.”

[@cammydwhammy]

it looked kinda boring tbh

[@xXWorldgamefunXx]

@@Jonnydrums413 The whole point of the video was to show you the actual intention lol

[@SpinsterOlive]

Artix Entertainment is about the only company I've encountered that does this well. They get _really_ obscure bands to come onto their multiplayer games (AQ3D and AQWorlds) and have limited time quests that stick around for about a month.

[@che3se1495]

@@Jonnydrums413 Ah yes, Chinese and American mega corporations are well known for their prime directive: distributing fun.

[@tyler89557]

Distributing fun... And collecting exorbitant prices.

[@Satherian]

"A perpetually monetized view of the future" After the NFT video that just came out, he was spot on.

[@adaroben1104]

The prospect of corps making nfts part of games is highly distressing. Especially because it will be leveraged with minors and in addict-stimulating ways.

[@laur-unstagenameactuallyca1587]

yike

[@adaroben1104]

@Dew Vulpeus Well aware, why I added ‘addiction stimulating” too. Anyone can be vulnerable to what amounts to a skinner box... the minors aspect is separate as they’re developing while being trained on skinner boxes. Such things are trying to be pushed as a norm which is insidious for everyone.

[@PhilosophyTube]

Came back to rewatch and just noticed the hidden tab jokes haha

[@CoolHandMikeYT]

lol

[@Pluveus]

I'm watching it for the first time and I was about to comment, Those Tabs tho.

[@magentasound_]

And now we know why you were here for the rewatch 😂😁

[@eruditecaptain3117]

My favorite detail is that he didn't close the tabs despite refining his searches. Almost as though, despite not wanting certain results, he was interested enough to not X out yet.

[@jakobjoelsson6414]

I feel bad that Dan had to see the results of those searches.

[@oasishurl]

"Lots of games use progression systems and incremental rewards as part of their core loop, to keep players playing. Fortnite is a maturation of those systems, a refinement of every habit-forming trick and micro-transaction pressure point developed in the last decade, condensed into a weaponized product targeted at kids." All the strongest manipulation techniques are now aimed at the most impressionable among us.

[@hugofontes5708]

@EpicZantetsuken yes But adults fall for these. How would they even protect their kids?

[@karlazeen]

Not just kids anyone

[@Djarnor]

Amogus

[@oasishurl]

@@Djarnor I was a prophet, bro.

[@SuperSeebass]

sus

[@tHustr4]

"Because you can enjoy what Mother Earth gave you, but that's not the same as having a personality!" *GOD D A M N ! !*

[@jessesharp974]

I didn't play fortnite long. I didn't understand most of what was laid out here, but I got the feeling they were doing something sketchy. I downloaded the game, then looked around for how to customize my character, found out I can't customize or even pick premade models for free, despite that they have free models available, they just assign you one at random unless you pay them. That set off my "someone is using some sort of psychology against me" alarm and I backed the hell out of there and never looked back. After this I'm pretty sure that was a good move

[@halfwayinfinate6342]

My brother tried to get me to play it and it just felt a little artificial. I completely get what you mean

[@ElderStatesman]

@@halfwayinfinate6342 my youngest brother got pretty neck deep into Fortnite as well. Tried to convince me to try it out, and we didn't have a good internet connection at the time. I saw the game used micro-transactions in lieu of a paid copy, and I knew to steer clear from games of that ilk. Guess call me old fashioned, but I was playing Halo 2 and Final Fantasy X around the time my brother got scammed out by Epic Games' slot machine-turned-shooter. So sad kids aren't growing up to appreciate narrative games that can be challenging but rewarding. And how much these crybaby game publishers like Epic Games and Polyphony Digital (pains me to say the latter) are milking younger players like cash cows. 😖

[@floreroafloreril1458]

@@ElderStatesman My lil brother also got neck deep into Fortnite at one point, he even came up with a plan to grind a season pass for free. I was supposed to play with him on an alt account and we'd grind the free vBucks of current season pass, then the alt account would gift the vBucks to my bro's main account and such. Long story short, he (actually, we) got burnt out, and I took the chance to get him to play Hollow Knight. He loved the game, I got him to play Ori, and now he mostly plays metroidvanias. Get your kids to try metroidvanias, folks. I feel like it's a genre that resonates really good with children.

[@Majromax]

For those here after 1 April, 2019, the video essay begins at 5:00.

[@jdprettynails]

The lead up to the essay was also very entertaining.

[@fioredeutchmark]

The preceding montage is gold definitely watch the whole thing.

[@Tereb1]

wish i saw this earlier, the intro was v annoying

[@RedWeeb4926]

this should be pinned

[@andrewxu3602]

This comment should be pinned.

[@DarthCalculus]

Dude you're such a default bro Sorry, that's what my son says all the time. I will be digesting this

[@Corrodias]

Tell him for me that an internet stranger is disappointed in him and hopes he grows up.

[@jon9828]

Oof. That one is heavy. I could feel that growing concern from here.

[@commongardengrey8739]

Calling out and targeting people that don't shill out for virtual items. Currencies that cause you to believe yourself better than others. Shit that's bad

[@KingBobXVI]

You should replace his wardrobe with all matching plain gray or white t-shirts and jeans and when he complains just say, "sorry, that's the default, you haven't paid for skins yet."

[@drakep.5857]

Get fortnite away from your kid. It's poison.

[@Sorenzo]

"It's not gambling if you can't win money." This is exactly the experience of MOST people who gamble, though.

[@X606]

ah yes but now there isnt even that 1% chance that you win, whatever you do you will always loose since you never get any real money out.

[@briargray2355]

Just another example of how the law is clearly more concerned with keeping common people from getting a payout than it is with keeping mass-scale manipulators from getting a payout.

[@ihatesigningup10598]

How is that relevant? Gamblers have an expectation that the money they put in will get them more money. With Fortnite, you know all you're getting in return for your money is pretty colors. FN players have no expectation they're buying a chance to win.

[@dig8634]

@@X606 But, people do FEEL like they win, and that's the important part. The fact that everyone ends up as losers doesn't actually change anything about what makes gambling bad. The fact that some people end up as millionaires is not the issue with gambling? That's the only good part about it, lol. Creating a randomized incentive to spend loads of money on uncertain value with a constant pressure to spend more to get the things you actually want is the issue, and that is very much prevalent in ALL types of gambling, whether it is lottery tickets, poker, loot boxes etc.

[@greenblack6552]

@@dig8634 also people need to keep in mind that those pretty colors are worth money. If you could sell them on ebay people would pay money for them.

[@miseganaobh]

"a glimpse of the future; an awful, perpetually monetised, vertically integrated, vaguely hostile future" wow you predicted NFTs through fortnite

[@Ramsey276one]

I remembered that RISE OF SKYWALKER event.. Who would have thought a movie-relevant event would be released *in a multiplayer online game?!* That is NOT a game based on that movie, might I add!

[@Gooong]

I imagined Dan waving frantically in the sound booth recording this.

[@CR4ZYeyes]

3 years later and I know Dan doesn't do updates on his videos, but the fact that Star Wars had a canonical plot piece happen in Fortnite needs to be part of this discussion. The skinner-box FOMO pressure from one of the most popular games of all time mixed with the biggest movie franchise of all time to push engagement in a free-to-play video game whose main revenue source is nothing more than a digital funko pop collection simulator is the perfect way to describe consumer culture in the last 5 years.

[@AjaxGb]

I personally suspect that Palpatine's speech was never _intended_ to be Fortnite-exclusive. It was probably a planned movie scene that they sent over to Epic Games as part of their promotional tie-in, and then later rewrites saw it cut from the movie.

[@RongleBringer]

That says more about how shit star wars is than anything else.

[@zaidlacksalastname4905]

​@@RongleBringerlmao fr star wars is mostly a joke nowadays

[@DNeonLamp]

I think a better thing to return to is the successful lawsuit against Fortnite for knowing their shopfront promoted mistaken transactions and didn't allow them to be refunded, on top of knowing just how predatory they were being toward pressuring purchases on children.

[@Jo.j.13-l9v]

They also made a sims dlc to Promote their theme Park. Its not a theme Park themed dlc its a dlc where you travel to the Planet thats the themed Park is themed after. (Also the aliens aren't aliens they are just people in costumes but like they are suppoused to be aliens but you find them in the costume menu, not in the aliens menu)

[@Juhziz]

I kinda see the badly hidden pain in that character's eyes as she realises in what kind of an unwelcome and greedy world she appears to be trapped being a f2p player.

[@347tester]

Omg ... You have a point am i going crazy !

[@MideoKuze]

when all our minds are uploaded and our bodies are in the grip of the Tencent-Amazon behemoth, you will be made to pay for dancing

[@angelTechnician64]

Cyberpunk Footloose?

[@StardustLegend]

thanks for the continued existential dread! :D

I don't even think this is too dystopian to wonder about. We're basically getting striped from any free form of joy we can get in life, everything you can do for fun eventually turning out to be a commodity, something else you gotta buy to have access to, I dunno it might be closer then we expect. Well, except we do something about it...

[@SFVYachtClub]

Don't forget about licensing the song you like so it's not deleted from your memory by a record label lmao

[@toribiogubert7729]

@@SFVYachtClub imagine have to pay copy rigths every time you remember an ear worm song that you dont even like...

[@sinisterdesign]

"I have no talk emote and I must scream"

[@nayannmartinelli300]

You know, the more we get closer to the "future", the more I long for the basic, cyberpunk-est kinds of dystopia that fiction used to present to us: They were awful, sure, but they were at least honest about it.

[@SFVYachtClub]

We're just getting the awful bits, and instead of neat stuff everyone's badly dressed and gay.

[@maliberlin9046]

@@SFVYachtClub You can't tell me the dystopias weren't gay af too

[@berkleypearl2363]

That arm waving is going to drive me nuts

[@terri8372]

I just scrolled up enough so the motion was no longer visible, it helped me to focus a lot better.

[@jackjones4248]

If you pay 500 FoldBucks you can download a premium version of the video without the waving woman

[@dhoffnun]

"The ability to self-express is set at a premium" - and that right there is what killed my interest in Elite Dangerous... whose parent company *also* got a big fat boost from Tencent.

[@xavierrodriguez2463]

Elite Dangerous is much more tame, you can still name your ship change its id and add default decals, And now you can even get the cheaper cosmetics through gameplay alone. While it is a paid game it still has to pay for its server somehow, so it uses cosemetics and dlc. It doesn't go anywhere near to the extent of fortnite's monetization, where you can't customize anything about the player character at all without purchasing some stupid looking skin.

[@thundersheild926]

@@xavierrodriguez2463 agreed. Also the customization in elite really only matters if you want to take pictures of your ship. Otherwise you never really see your ship except when outfitting it.

[@homestuck_official]

oh this aged like fine wine

[@salphoris911]

​@@homestuck_official Has there been a new development in the last 2 years?

[@homestuck_official]

@@salphoris911 1. how are you replying to my old username 2. genshin impact

[@johnarmstrong5533]

"Players who haven't bought a skin don't even have control over their basic image. There isn't a roster of default looks to choose from. Your look is assigned randomly after every match." Wow, that does seem like a hostile design. I found the critique of game mechanics & balance interesting since I've never played it, but I also had no idea that there wasn't even a default skin. That lack of control really rubs me the wrong way, like players aren't even starting at "0", but at "-1", so-to-speak.

[@Alienrun]

I was out of the fornite loop for a while, didn't understand the appeal... The more I look into it, I understand the appeal even less...

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

Its actually wildly more hostile than being stuck with a default "Joe" character model, or even if it was randomly unique (but still the same every time you play) Due to it constantly changing it rips even the little amount of identity you can cling on to, forcing a clear dissociation without paying plenty of money. Fortnite is a scary look at a company that actually pays attention to what consumers want, in a devious and scary way. Considering Tencent has their claws in League of Legends, its scary to think how Fortnite is a money printing machine that uses its players to make money, despite what makes them happy. Fortnite is soulless, its scary to see so many people attached to that Skinner box.

[@sharkymcshark3392]

John Armstrong That's not really the way it is, there's one default skin which is just basically a normal soldier looking person, but their appearance i.e sex and race change from game to game. It's just so here's some variety in the default skins and they don't all look like the same person, it would probably be better if you could just choose to be the black guy or the white girl, or the white guy all the time, but it's random unfortunately.

[@bugsmoney1264]

"Hostile"? Really? Are we really being that melodramatic with the framing of this? Its literally just a default look with a variety of different skin tones and genders that they cycle through. Who gives a fuck if they don't let you choose what you look like, you're playing a game they spent months upon months developing ENTIRELY FREE. And as is pointed out in the video, you can unlock skins that DON'T cycle *just by playing the game* .

[@Howtard]

@@bugsmoney1264 It may seem like melodrama but it's a valid framing of this issue; gaming has always revolved around simulating experiences with the aim of getting enjoyment from it. By now it is obvious that over time it is possible to design experiences which promote a far wider range of psychological effects than first thought, including dependence or self-consciousness. It may be a microcosm of the experience of being exploited for money in a more direct fashion but the terms are still applicable, and frankly when it comes to vulnerable people they can be exploited to a much more worrying degree (especially when you consider that children all fall into this category).

[@lucyskyler21]

is it weird that i recognised the FOMO tactics from post-disney buyout club penguin

[@VVheeli]

I recognize it off Seasonal events from League of Legends’ early days it’s not that off.

[@spiderbruhhh]

If only this made the news; instead of how video games are negatively influencing your kids, how about how corporations are greedily preying on your kids' pyscholigies. Anyone listening? Only those who care... Damn.

[@hugofontes5708]

If it got the alarmist treatment on how "all videogames are doing WHAT horrible thing to YOUR CHILDREN?!" then maaaaybe it makes the news

[@StardustLegend]

@@hugofontes5708 Even then, they'll still probably go to the conclusion that "video games are bad" instead of addressing the predatory marketing and microtransactions, thus avoiding the root of the problem and perhaps even making things worse

[@isaacfields7923]

They are to busy worrying violence to worry about gambling

[@_thisconnected_]

The average smoothbrain who resorts to vidya games bad aren't the kind you'd associate with knowing shadow investing giants like tencent,blackrock and how they're turning everything they own into psychologically manipulative legal gambling

[@maxxvii2037]

Imposible, most people who push the "videogame bad" narrative are totally fine with predatory marketing.

[@Scondoro]

"An awful, perpetually monetized, vertically integrated, vaguely hostile future." Coming here from the Line Goes Up NFT video, 2 years later. This man is prescient.

[@innacrisis6991]

he saw the signs, it's a bloody shame so many of the rest of us haven't until recently, but things _are_ changing somewhat I suppose

[@Adlai3]

So THIS is why you've been streaming Fortnite a whole bunch

[@rruhland]

Coming back to this after watching “The Line Goes Up” and hearing this video talk about a glimpse into a monetized future is kinda surreal.

[@crysanthiumvega]

"Look at that stupid default skin, I bet he just installed and has never played" "Look at that loser f2p in Team Fortress 2. I can't believe I'm playing with a bad teammate" "Look at all of these cool things you could get if you pre-ordered before the reviews about the game are out"

[@lazerbeam134]

Fortnite is the perfect showcase of what is actually wrong with the gaming industry. The answer isn't "SJW's pushing a PC agenda", the answer is game design choices that are driven by squeezing every last ounce of profit they can from the customer without regard to whether the game is actually good or interesting from a narrative or gameplay standpoint. Microtransactions, loot crates, early access it's all a result of late capitalism. Video games were better when they were less profitable, yet supposedly the profit motive leads to quality? Sounds like a paradox almost lol

[@zevaronxz7288]

PixelLightShow what a great argument "no"

[@hugofontes5708]

@PixelLightShow kinda hard to take your point seriously when there's so much more fluff than crunch

[@SgtKaneGunlock]

@PixelLightShow learn how to talk like an adult and maybe people will take your Inane ramblings seriously

[@mozarteanchaos]

@PixelLightShow imagine yelling at someone for bias despite your own blatant bias in the opposite direction no opinion is unbiased, begone rightie

[@arnoldsenokopenko6093]

Why not both?

[@muticere]

Me when I first saw Fortnite being played: oh that's interestingly progressive that the default character model is female, that's different for a shooter game. Me now: Oh they did that because boys playing the game won't want to be a girl and will be more likely to buy skins so they don't have to be. great.

[@lukecwolf]

Because you’re kind of horrifying to think that even the choice of gender Can be monetized

[@slenders1ckn3ss]

a lot of ''''''''pros''''''''' use female skins because the skins are smaller visually (tho all skins have the same hitbox) and they don't have as much visual 'noise' in the way. things like the Peely skin, the soccer skins, and other narrow skins or skins with tighter clothing offer the same 'benefit', tho it's arguable exactly how much it helps.

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

I mean, that’s not necessarily true. Half of the default skins are dudes, and half of them are girls. It’s not exclusive, it’s a coin toss.

[@DerAykac]

I still don´t get it, and i still get mocked for that. I mean...i´m a man, when having to choose between looking at a mans as or a womens´ for hours of gaming, i def take the women...

[@xluckless]

@@DerAykac It depends on how you view your character. Some people see their characters as an extension of themselves. Others, just see it as a character they play. In the former, people don't want to play as the opposite gender because that's not who they are. These are also the people that might mock others for doing that.

[@Olodus]

THOSE EYES! Those horrible eyes... They see into my soul. That waving... It never stops...

[@henrycurtis3652]

The avatar looks like she's being held at gunpoint.

[@Patrick-Phelan]

@@henrycurtis3652 ...Which, to be fair, considering 20:56...

[@pentbot]

And that smile. That mouth can probably open way too wide.

[@fleacythesheepgirl]

I think we all knew the channel was heading in this direction, I'm just glad you finally said it and made it official. My only problem is I wish you would dab more (especially at the intro and outro).

[@gateauxq4604]

This video needs 9000% more dabbing

[@Remls]

How much would it cost to unlock that in V-bucks though?

[@fleacythesheepgirl]

Adam Raaif Nasheed 9001 special edition gold v buck, which are only obtainable by simply converting 752 Microsoft points to 57.4 Disney dollars then use those to purchase the v bucks. It's works like regular money but it's fun.

[@AlexiconPrime]

On the subject of Alfonso and his lawsuit: Other games feature his dance for free, like Guild Wars 2. No problems at all. Fortnite was making a fortune off his dance. Hell I'd sue too.

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

Probably also makes a court case a lot more likely to win too. It's already difficult from what I understand to copyright a dance (my understanding is limited to that one game theory episode).

[@troodon1096]

That's precisely why he didn't sue over its inclusion in GW2; it wasn't being directly monetized then. It was in the game but anyone that made a character that did that dance got it for no additional money. In Fortnite you have to pay money directly to get that dance which makes it a huge difference; few people are buying GW2 just so they can get a character that does "the Carlton" but in Fortnite they are literally selling it directly as a product.

[@troodon1096]

@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat Which is why Alfonso is trying to make it clear in the lawsuit that he's not suing over copying a dance he did, but a specific performance he did on Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Its entire value stems from being a reference to something he did at a specific time, not just a generic dance anyone could have done.

[@Dave-hp4vh]

Every time he says the phrase "live service", I hear it in the voice of Jim Sterling, dripping with derision, and I smile a little.

[@Gideon_the_Seeker]

I was about to comment the same thing.

[@haldir108]

Jim Sterling does a very important job. It's just a shame that he is so bad at it.

[@JohnDoe-ep4rb]

@@haldir108 Bad at it how exactly?

[@haldir108]

@@JohnDoe-ep4rb Where he should be a consumer advocate, he often slips into being anti-publisher instead. It's fine when he calls out genuinely consumer-unfriendly practices, but often he just denounces any move that is meant to increase profit.

[@JohnDoe-ep4rb]

@@haldir108 Yeah, I can respect that. He does make mountains out of molehills sometimes.

[@LaNoLaCola]

Truly the pinnacle of Dan's KZbin Career.

[@corbinisms8846]

Another note on the FOMO piece; the items in the Battle Pass only last for the duration of the season. If you don't buy the pass and max it out, you lose everything you didn't get forever. I remember taking about a year off from the game, and I came back, realizing that I had missed an entire four or so seasons of skins that I may have wanted. I'm an adult, so I can just brush that kind of thing off, because skins and emotes and such don't really matter to me, but to a child? To a child, those things can mean the WORLD. So what will they do? They'll beg for the current pass, they'll beg for the next one, and they'll play Fortnite and only Fortnite, just like you said, just to grind and get that really neato skin at the end of the pass. And that scares me in a really primal way. I don't hate Fortnite; I like to get games in with my friends a couple times a week, I'll admit it openly. I hate the tactics they use, and the fact that those tactics are heavily directed towards an incredibly impressionable audience.

[@caitmonroe9349]

Now we know why Henry was so judgmental about Susan playing videogames! He didn't want her to blow the $680,000 on micro-transactions!

[@cephalopad]

Every time you say, "live service," I hear it in Jim Sterling's voice.

[@aphexgothicc]

minecraft virtual concerts are where its at. they're entirely community-driven, lengthy third party events with lovingly made maps and stages, independent talent and far better at giving anyone a mode of expression. almost everyone 'dancing' at these events are spamming crouch or jumping around, something any player can do, not to mention you can bring your own skins (i came to nether meant 2020 as a liquid gold poppers canister). some concerts even provide a large-scale social space outside of the action, with parkour, secrets and easter eggs. they feel like a small bastion of what the internet once was, compared to fortnite's terrifying 10 minute peer-pressure light show.

[@WhatIsMyPorpoise]

It's interesting, considering the disparity between Java and Bedrock, and the presence the Marketplace has on the latter. Does virtually every menu and submenu have a way to lead you to the marketplace or buy something from it? Yes. Does it have vague pricing due to larger bundles being cheaper? Yes. Add to that the jealousy that comes with a friend showcasing a bought emote or skin accessory. At the same time, there IS a decent level of restraint. Almost all base skin elements are free and the selection of hairstyles is pretty impressive. There is a fair amount of free skin accessories and a significant amount are added semi-randomly without much fanfare. Seasonal freebies that aren't exclusive on a day-to-day basis. Players can earn a significant amount of good costume elements from earning achievements, which would motivate them to experience diverse aspects of the game they might otherwise get bored with. When buying Minecraft digitally, you get a solid package of coins, enough to build a full skin(granted without any standout pieces). Emotes are probably the least balanced as they are fairly expensive and currently few are free. Ultimately, while I don't like them, they aren't absolutely abhorrent. Marketplace content is kind of atrocious though. There's a lot of low hanging fruit that people try to cash in on in there... ... I suppose your point was about servers, I sadly haven't experienced much of the social play of minecraft. My friend circle is pathetically limited, and playing online means often playing with kids which just feels weird. I'm not sure if I've seen mineccraft virtual concerts in bedrock, they might exist, but I don't really know. From what I've seen in videos, they do have that special homemade quality to them. and the content surrounding the stage can be really great.

[@diamondcreeper28]

holy shit nether meant

[@_colonial_]

The advantage of Minecraft is twofold. One - you can create anything using the same common pallete of blocks, such as a concert venue for Marshmello. This means that anyone can truly make their own space, no advanced 2D or 3D art skills needed. Sure, it'll be blocky, but human brains are great at pattern reconginition and filling in the gaps. (And if you need special/nonstandard behavior, that gap can often be filled with server plugins that require no active effort from participants.) Two, anyone can host a server for free. I ran one off a $300 shitbox when I was 12 that could support around two dozen people. This means you aren't reliant on a soulless corporation to share your spaces with others.

[@almostambidextrous]

Minecraft (especially Java) feels like such an anomaly. I paid $30 eight years ago for what has turned out to be *thousands* of hours of gameplay (+many more spent creating datapacks and watching God-knows-how-many episodes of EthosLab), basically for free. Going out on a limb, my best guess for why Microsoft allows this is that they're employing a similar strategy as for their programming tools and resources-making their platforms into cheap & accessible options for creators to generate content means nearly-perpetual trivially-expensive advertising + reliably massive market share. I'm sure they make a good chunk of coin just off of licensing for Minecraft-branded toys, LEGOs, and breakfast cereals. As much as I love the game, if I had to pay a monthly subscription fee for it I would probably have lost interest by now - one of the greatest things I've found (especially as an adult with a job) is that it's ok to take breaks from it for awhile sometimes. There's no pressure to grind unless I want to. It's always there for me to come home to, and (thanks again to KZbin and the likes of Etho) there's always some reason/inspiration to draw me back.

[@mousasha-]

@@almostambidextrousI believe there’s something in the details of Microsoft’s acquisition of Minecraft that doesn’t allow them to exert much creative control over Java edition. I could be wrong but I remember reading that Mojang doesn’t answer to them when it comes to Java. Ofc that wouldn’t stop Microsoft from simply starving Java edition for funding or any other number of ways they could kill it, but I think they just understand that keeping Java MC around makes them look good and that PR is worth more than they’d get out of killing Java edition to force ppl into the marketplace ridden Bedrock ecosystem.

[@JacksonBockus]

I was in Disney World and the song they were playing in a parade included the line “Come on, everybody, put your ears on!” I thought so much of this video and the “show me your favorite emote” line.

[@RoyalFusilier]

That concert sure was a glimpse of the future, alright. Just watched RTGames' recent stream where he went into Metaverse, that's the joke, actually playing and streaming it, and obviously nobody involved was uh, impressed. But the detail that stuck with me and reminded me of that Marshmallow concert was that in the in-game comedy club, well. Two details. First off, there were tables and chairs for the audience, despite the fact that everybody was a nightmarish floating torso. But also, you could only applaud the routines up on stage if you had purchased applause points with real money. Literally selling the ability to express yourself. Extremely dire.

[@waywardplanet]

This video is especially amazing since I'm an older member of Gen Z. I grew up playing hoards of flash games on Newgrounds and Armor Games, but the only way to really play with other people without buying anything would be to play on one of the billions of child-friendly virtual worlds like Club Penguin and Animal Jam. Both Club Penguin and AJ had the very same psychological pushes as Fortnite does, but Fortnite pushes these to an extreme. Both Club Penguin and AJ let you customize your character, and decorate your house, but you had a limited roster of possibilities (especially with Club Penguin) unless you bought their membership subscription. In Club Penguin, you only had two different pets (or puffles) out of like 12 to choose from, and could actually wear different types of clothing, including wigs. F2Ps would have to grind to get so much as the construction hat or the Tour Guide hat, if I remember correctly. In Animal Jam, you had something like 10 out of 30 animal avatars to choose from, and you still had to grind for premium currency for some F2P avatars. Since the premium avatars were newer than the "default" F2P avatars, most people wholly preferred their designs. A grand majority of players preferred the premium arctic wolf's design over the default wolf's design. Arctic wolves were seen as all-around "cooler" characters in player social spheres. In both games, you would have to comb through membership-only wares to find anything that F2Ps could use, and were locked out of some rooms that were members-only, no matter how flashy they were. Animal Jam (and perhaps Club Penguin) would often launch with a pop-up announcement for new features, almost all exclusively available to membership subscribers, that you would have to click off of without a second thought. This phenomena always annoyed me, and it's so nice that 10 years later, I get to see that my annoyance is more than justified.

[@Blueeyesthewarrior]

Gods, I remember the terrible pressure that you felt to buy a Webkinz. It was terrible. If you didn't buy a new plush every so often you would be threatened with losing access to your existing account of Webkinz. All of the ones that you had already added to the site might be lost if you didn't buy a new one within a certain period of time and you could never get them back because you had already put them into the site. Terrible for children.

[@charlottemclean6130]

I can’t help but be struck by the similarities to real life privilege, particularly how having money makes things cheaper and peer pressure being used to get you to buy stuff you otherwise wouldn’t.

[@lucasmoreno9848]

Art reflects the world it's made in

[@fatimagic1365]

as someone who doesn't play video games but experiences a lot of fomo when it comes to movies and tv shows, this video actually really helps me in terms of understanding just how engineered fomo actually is from a business and psychological standpoint.

[@brumagemm]

I got tired of Overwatch and decided "Fortnite has a cool aesthetic, I'll try Fortnite" *more connection problems* *less punchy, less intuitive gameplay* *literally everything behind a paywall* *bends over backwards to make spending money on it look like a good idea* "OK, maybe losing duels to Moira isn't so bad"

[@jes3788]

Overwatch has some pretty hostile design too, like seasonal and/or ludicrously expensive skins (as in they take way too long to save up for in game) and lootboxes filled with shit content, but made to feel like you're getting something. It's not as bad as fortnite but it is what started the loot ox trend

[@underscorerx]

@@jes3788 in ow defense the level on which it exists pales in comparison with this example. first of all there is not that many skins and you can buy most of them instead of seasonal ones. if you're into the game - they are not that expensive, as the game is pretty generous with it's lootbox giveaway. but most importantly - it's so secondary to the game itself, there is no pressure to have emotes, skins and sprays - they are mostly used during 30sec preparation stage. I am at a point with this game where it is kinda bothersome to even open the lootboxes, i don't really care, i'm enjoy playing it more than trying to justify playing it with getting bling. don't get me wrong, there are similar tricks involved, but in a much healthier way. for example - weekly lootboxes for 9 wins feels as a healthy amount of time to spend in the game to keep your level decent. it equates to roughly 2 hours per week, which is nowhere near as predatory

[@trancebodega2739]

your first mistake was whatever led you to enjoy Fortnites bland, fisher-price aesthetic

[@ASCENDANTGAMERSAGE]

@@trancebodega2739 Are you judging people for liking a certain aesthetic or not caring about aesthetic? As bad as calling someone "basic" for liking certain things or "default" for not having the good sense to spend money on an in-game skin.

[@ASCENDANTGAMERSAGE]

@@jes3788 Did you say that Overwatch stared the lootbox trend? Because that's demonstrably false. And Overwatch's default skins are some of the highest quality art I've seen. The lootboxes are tacked on as a fun progression for your account. After a couple of hundred of hours, you have everything. During the events, if you play with your friends for a few hours, you have everything. You do not have to pay for anything after the initial purchase and you can get pretty much anything you want with a little bit of time. Less than you would grinding out a battle pass. Honestly, I'm a little hurt you compared Overwatch to Fortnite. I must admit my bias as someone who has played about 2.3k hours since beta.

[@Himiko_Void]

Dan, this is the single most terrifying April Fool's I've ever had to watch and I feel an existential crisis thanks to this. Absolutely thank you.

[@mojoforthewin3069]

Hearing ‘live service’ in a voice other than Jim Sterling’s is honesty kinda disconcerting.

[@BigBoss-sm9xj]

Oof

[@WaLlAb33]

Coming back to this vid in 2022, his points are almost prophetic. Fortnite has more or less turned into an advertisement machine for songwriters, some being literally featured in game as playable characters, while the majority are tied to emotes that play an artist's song when used. I imagine the behind the scenes looks like an artist approaching Fortnite wanting to give their next song a boost by having it be featured in Fortnite, or Fortnite approaching artists to say "hey, want to get your song and dance in front of a bunch of impressionable kids?" And compounding this with having the funny dances and songs be performed by similarly popular pop culture characters, you have this insanely effective mechanism to ensure people are buying your cosmetics in perpetuity. Have you *SEEN* Rick Sanchez doing the griddy? Look you can make Goku dance to fly and ghetto!

[@drawnseeker]

i came for an April Fools joke and got an indepth, thought provoking looking at the Live Service format of games. This is amazing!

[@TheCountOfMommysCrisco]

I got to experience the 'beta run' of this model when Tencent acquired the studio that ran my favorite MOBA years ago - SMITE. I liked Hi-Rez model before that deal. It was an up-front store that sold all the microtransactions the game had to offer with a simple tier-based pricing structure where things got cheaper by dropping down in price-point after they'd been released a while. You knew what your money was worth when you bought their digital currency, it all translated directly into values that were shown up-front at all times, alongside all other options so as to have a full understanding of what something was worth. Their 'hook' at the time was the best one I've seen a F2P system use - Certain types of microtransaction content added direct value to others. You could buy a character you like, then you could buy a skin and improve the value of that first purchase by giving it more options. Then you could go on and buy a voice pack for that character, which provided more value to both the initial purchases because the skin also came with unique voice lines. The various categories of content 'layered over' each other in a way that let a player get as invested in customizing their play as they wanted to, and they could always come back later for something interesting if they didn't happen to have some extra money on hand right when something they wanted came out. Then Tencent invested in Hi-Rez and they literally introduced loot boxes within a matter of weeks, and stuffed them with trash-tier content created specifically to bloat the odds of getting anything you wanted. Then they started making high-quality content that was lootbox exclusive and came with all sorts of features no other skins in the game had up to that point. The ability to know what your in-game coins were 'worth' disintegrated practically overnight. After that it was seasonal 'Odyssey' events where you got 'points' when you bought time-exclusive content that might let you get other exclusive content at the end of the season - if you pay enough money. Which I calculated at the time to be something like $250 over three months for the really 'neat stuff' they were pushing the hardest. I was reminded of when I was a child and got the game 'Theme Park' by Bullfrog Studios for the Sega Genesis. If you wanted to make a metric shit-ton of money in that game one easy exploit was to set-up 'carnival game' booths all over your park. You'd set the prize values to the maximum, the price to enter to the maximum, and the odds of winning to the absolute minimum on every single one of them. You end up with all your guests lining up to throw money at booths that I can only imagine are, like 'Win a gold bar if you can knock over this cow using telekinetic powers'. I'd never imagined that same kind of exploit would be so effective in real life.

[@constance6198]

Adam Click was literally playing smite while watching this video and noting the parallels between Smite and Fortnite. that being said smite actually has a good game attached

[@MissMokate]

I thought I was the only one who still remembered Theme Park

[@retrobane]

Tencent doesn't own Epic though? They weren't "acquired," there wasn't a merger. I play Smite, and I've played some Fortnite, and one game has lootboxes (Smite) and one literally doesn't and has never had randomized microtransactions (Fortnite, at least the PVP version). I feel like Dan's being kind of hysterical here when he's saying that the only reason you'd have a storefront with rotating items is to engender FOMO and squeeze money out of people. Other reasons to have it include: making it slightly harder to whale in the game, having a concise shop screen in a game with hundreds if not thousands of cosmetics people might want, and incentivizing logins through "I wonder what's in the store today." Items rotate pretty frequently, at least with the exception of the Dab emote, which took me like an entire year to catch. You can say that last part is scummy if you want, I guess. Dan's also being kind of hysterical, IMO, when he says that the game's microtransaction currency is ~super duper hard to put a real money value on~. It's $1 = 100. That much is blatant with, like, every fucking tier. Spend ten bucks? Get 1000 funbux. "Bonus" amounts are always silly but like, I dunno, just think of it as getting shit on sale or something. Things in the store cost 2000, 1500, 800, 500, or 200 funbux. If you can't see that 2000 is equal to two tens, i.e., $20, then... I dunno what to say to you. Things also aren't really priced incompatibly, that's a point of design Epic has actually tried to avoid having. You can very easily purchase amounts that are pretty much enough to get That One Cosmetic, or Those Two Cosmetics, or even more. This isn't even addressing that a lot of skins come with back slot items which can be mixed and matched with other skins, or the fact that if you were really, utterly determined, you could play on the premium battle pass track for the rest of your life after a few seasons without ever giving Epic money. Ever. Like, it'd take time, and all you could get is the battle pass, but I dunno. That's not bad for a game you literally do not have to buy.

[@laggrenade863]

@@retrobane and what if you don't live in the US? How many British pounds is 100 v bucks? How about euros? Or rupees?

[@retrobane]

@@laggrenade863 Those also, presumably, have their own stores with their own currency. GBP is 8 for 1000, so 1 pound is 125 clown dollars. I can Google the other ones for you too if that's what arguments are now.

[@harrisonbloom816]

The virgin Red Vs Blue doing talking animations by having characters bobble their heads up and down vs the CHAD Folding Ideas playing Fortnite for 20 hours to unlock the hand-waving emote

[@Karma20XX]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say kids that are exposed to these gambling mechanics are not going to be great with money when they grow up.

[@theanimalslaugh]

K A R M A There is zero gambling/gambling mechanics in Fortnite. A lot of the other psychological tactics that many companies employ in order to get people to buy things exist in fortnite, but there are no loot boxes, what you see is what you get. There were quite a few other points where he was either just plain wrong or intentionally (or maybe ignorantly) misleading, but saying that there is gambling or gambling mechanics in the game takes the cake.

[@ouijaboar]

@@theanimalslaugh I have seen articles that say exactly what it says at 8:50, that they got rid of blind loot boxes in Fortnite: Save the World in January, there was even a lawsuit filed against Epic Games about this apparently. No blind loot boxes existed in the more popular Battle Royale I guess, but since the gambling aspect was mentioned with respect to the loophole that vbucks provide I think Dan's point still stands.

[@SegaGenesisEvangelion]

ha, that's where you're wrong! they'll be RICH in v-bucks, attending Marshmello concerts every weekend and doing their favorite emote when the beat drops!

[@bkolumban]

As oppsosed to todays adults, who are great with money?

[@nfzeta128]

@@theanimalslaugh Wow, seems like you've fallen hook, line and sinker for that same manipulation. The very fact that there are missions needed to complete weekly quests and you have only 3 of the 4 needed be free and the paid ones are hidden is a gambling mechanic. You're literally paying for a spin of the possible missions.

[@Dudefriend666]

Even when it's a joke video, you make one of the best deconstructions of Games as a service. I shall honour you by flossing while I dab.

[@murdockscott]

That was fantastic, I will be sure to show this to my son when he is older to help explain why I never let him play this game when he was a little kid. I knew it had some very questionable elements, but you really pulled back the carpet and showed all the rotted floorboards. Well done.

[@kajmak]

now's the time, i guess

[@stazibednarczuk3888]

Why does the waving emote keep shaking like that!? Is she okay??? I can't stand her staring at me with that dead-eyed gaze oh g o d

[@sjs9698]

i think that does a great job of highlighting the underlying creepiness of this friendly-looking game. especially the fixed grin.

[@Mechadude32]

The joke is meta because you think it's a joke about Fortnite but actually it's a well thought out commentary on the emotionally manipulative nature of the storefront-with-a-game-attached.

[@LWylie]

Nice to see you appreciate the innumerous hours workers have put into the actual game. Apparently it's just an "attached game".

[@Pixxeria]

@@LWylie You can appreciate the innumerous hours the carpenters have put into creatings seats for slotmachines, but the slotmachine is still the one giving the casino profit.

[@LWylie]

@@Pixxeria The idea that it's any less of a game because it isn't the primary driver of profit is hilarious.

[@iTzKneecap]

@@LWylie The idea that a storefront-with-a-game-attached means the game is less of a game is hilarious. Just like the storefront-with-a-game-attached, a slot machine chair is not less of a chair because it assists in keeping people buying into the machine. You silly for that one.

[@LWylie]

@@iTzKneecap That was a terrible analogy, so I ignored it. A more accurate one for the criticism is going to a restaurant that provides free food, and having the option to pay for fancy knives and forks - and then claiming it's a department store aisle with a restaurant attached.

[@salt_liqueur]

Tfw you realize this game is mostly played by and targeted towards young children 😟

[@Summer_turtle_]

When you look at the playerbase there’s actually a lot of adults that play it

[@mortis3732]

As a 21 year old I still play but yes it is rare to find other adults like me in matches nowadays

[@benpowell3993]

Finally, the video we've all been waiting for. Thank you for your courage Dan, this means a lot to us,

[@BasiliskKingOfSerpents]

Dang, that was really well made. And having come here right off catching up on the Jimquisition, oh boy do I feel a common thread here in the in-depth look at the exploitative nature of modern methods of video game monetization.

[@Texelion]

In french we have a saying : Si c'est gratuit, c'est toi le produit ( if it's free, YOU are the product ). I think that the most important part of these games is that they are free to play. Because there is no resistance when something is free. If it was 60 bucks, a lot of parents would think twice before buying it, but it's free, so it's accessible to everyone, and especially kids without money. But then they'll grow up thinking that this model is perfectly normal, and the second they can spend a dime on it, they will. Being free is also the best excuse to push out the micro transactions and battle passes. "But the devs need to get paid", right ?

[@CNYKnifeNerd]

That's a common English saying too. It doesn't really fit here though as it's only "free," which is a vastly different thing than free. It is definitely selling you something.

[@sameash3153]

lol you guys just took that quote from us

[@maddieb.4282]

Uh that’s an American saying too lol

[@dildonius]

​@@maddieb.4282 Or maybe it's a human saying that has variants across all cultures and nationalism is idiotic.

[@erraticonteuse]

I don't know if it originated in English, but it definitely rhymes better in French, so I'm willing to give it to you guys.

[@DanBalan1]

Dear Dan, It's me, your Starry Zafira here from 2003! I've been withering away here in Neotopia for the better part of a decade now, but Xenu just won't let me die. I am OT 5 now, so that's pretty cool! Anyways, I just wanted to remind you of all of the branded games that N,eopets once offered. Some of them are still around, like the McDonald's game! Back when I had you around, that was my favorite. Why didn't you take me there more often? I love you and I live in the internet! When you leave cookies on a site, I eat them. I watch everything you do, and I'm so proud of the man you've turned into.

[@Loalrikowki]

Having never played or watched Fortnite, I didn't realize that free players have to throw their appearance back into the general pool like Unsullied do with their names.

[@boiledelephant]

Dark, isn't it. I played the game without even noticing, but I know that adolescent me would've gotten absolutely fixated on that lack of image control and would've begged an adult for a credit card to bypass it.

[@bugsmoney1264]

@@boiledelephant The second half of your comment is the only argument I understand coming from the anti-fortnite camp. But at the same time, I can't blame the developers of the game for the simple reality that kids have a dynamic of peer pressure and have no real value for money. When I was a kid it was the same deal with name-brand clothes. Does that mean Nike and Jordans and Under Armor are malicious for simply having higher quality clothes and being nationwide brands? I don't think so. I don't think that's ever been a narrative that a significant amount of people have ever tried to push other than the small percentage of anti-capitalists in the western world. It's up to the parents of the kids to properly teach their kids to value money and ignore childish bullying. Or if you're a lazy parent just spend the $50 a year on a battle pass so your kid will shut up. I mean fuck its like $70 for your average game that people only spend a month or so playing anyway, what the fuck is the difference?

[@muxperience]

​@@bugsmoney1264 I think my first response would be that no matter what fads pass through the world's of kids clothing, the goods being sold have physical value that exists outside of paying for it After someone is done with an article of clothing, it can be handed down to a sibling, or donated, or re-processed into some other fabric. This can't happen with a fortnite dance. You might be able to sell your Epic Account to try and get money back, but that's fundamentally a different form of exchange than trading ownership of a good (and violates Epic's terms of service, meaning that exchange values of the account is already jeapordized). I'd say there is some haziness around the true value of name-brand clothing versus national bands, but with either choice of price, people are visiting clothes stores to buy things to wear in the world outside the shop. Nike or Gucci don't run closed systems -- you buy things from them for their value outside of the company. Because Fornite BR is a closed system, Epic can definitely be criticized for what they do. They need to make money off their game, sure, but the ways they make sure profit is made deviates from normal expected behavior.

[@bugsmoney1264]

@@muxperience Oof that just feels like a huge mental leap for me. The fact that you can repurpose an article of clothing is only an additional benefit, it doesn't mitigate the societal influences that caused you to buy a $20 name-brand shirt instead of a $5 "great value" shirt. If we're talking about the psychological influence of "fitting in" when buying a product which defines your identity, brands like Nike have benefitted the same way as Fortnite has. I don't think Fortnite deviates in a significant enough amount from normal business strategies in gaming to warrant the hate they receive and some of the melodramatic phrasing in this video. As far as the _games as a service_ model goes, having microtransactions *SOLELY* for aesthetics and giving away your game for free is the least malicious version possible. I mean, as mentioned before, there were about 5 full seasons in 2018, each battle pass costs about $10 so that's $50 a year, assuming you actually continue playing the game for a full year. You play the game for a month, and thoroughly enjoy it but then got bored before the next season? You probably only paid $10 for the game. You played it once didn't like it and stopped forever? You probably didn't pay any money at all. I can't for the life of me understand how that is a malicious business model even when compared to the traditional model of "Pay $70 once for a game you will play for a month and maybe a couple of times again later in your life". And I *love* single player games. I'm sorry, but the onus is on whoever is paying for the skins (the adult player or the parent) to have the discipline to say whether or not something is worth it. If a child is stealing your credit card or whining about wanting a skin, that's unequivocally your fault. I know children are very identity-based and we all might be able to relate to being a kid and wanting to look like all your friends, but it is your job as a parent to instill in them the discipline to overcome that. It's not Fortnite's job to not offer pretty little skins that you can buy *if you want them* . There are so many better examples of actual malicious "games as a service" models that practically force players to pay extra in order to play the game properly (and they're not even free games).

[@dedokodo5]

@@bugsmoney1264 My brothers actually were pushed to getting jobs and working in order to buy the battle pass because my parents do not subscribe to paying more money for live services. So its not all bad I can see many kids who parents actually you know...parent being moved towards taking up responsibilities in order to purchase things they enjoy. Not ever kid goes around stealing their mothers credit cards to buy Vbucks.

[@jakubgrygiel9795]

I love how your last ominous words are followed by a headshot. The bearer of bitter truth in this dystopian monetization hellscape, assassinated from a hidden location by a tencent sniper - 14 year old with a mom's credit

[@carlostaffanelly418]

Why is this April fool's joke still better than anything The Quartering has ever made? Dan you absolute mad lad

[@lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598]

Well... Because white noise is still better than anything The Quartering ever made. That was a very low bar you set. :p

[@joep041188]

@@lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598 Well said

[@carlostaffanelly418]

@@lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598 fortnite does that to a person, I'm sorry

[@idsbraam]

Because this requires actual effort, which limits your output, and limits the amount of videos you can put out. You get paid for views, not effort put in. This also requires you to think a little bit, just making people angry at others is easier. (it also gets the others to hatewatch, double the views!). 2 vids per day vs 1 vid every 2 weeks.

[@ItsSomeDeadGuy]

Because he's a talentless idiot while Dan is intelligent and knows how to make a decent video.

[@sapph42]

The tabs at 20:31 are just a masterpiece of blink-and-you'll-miss-it humor. Well done, Dan.

[@cammydwhammy]

Sapph daaaaamn I didn’t even notice that, thanks for pointing it out. Very subtle, Dan.

[@rollfizzlebeef5384]

Knowing the internet, the stuff he searched for in those tabs exists in droves.

[@risk2193]

I feel sorry for the man

[@helenl3193]

Ha! Well spotted, Sapph! 😆 Dan suffering for his art 😕

[@b1g_m00n]

yes!!!! I for one aaaaalways pause and see what other tabs people got open on their browsers if screengrabs show up. It's amazing how often people forget that those show up. But Dan is playing 4d chess with us.

[@arcmage7000]

"An awful, perpetually monetized, vertically integrated, vaguely hostile future" That's an extremely prescient description of Web3

[@Avossk]

That wave emote makes me incredibly uncomfortable for some reason

[@Olodus]

What do you mean? *staring at you with dead eyes* Don't you like my human hand waving? *waves the hand a bit more*

[@MissMokate]

it has the same energy as that photo from Tom Cruise's interview on which Christian Bale based his iconic American Psycho smile

[@cerebrustusbordungolski7183]

Uncanny valley, the face looks human enough, but her expression is like a robot trying to trick you. I actually kept covering that face with my hand.

[@ronnickels5193]

More reason to buy a battle pass and unlock a better emote. Or just buy a better emote. Anything to get out of the uncanny valley.

[@cerebrustusbordungolski7183]

@@ronnickels5193 That will just encourage devs to make games shitty on purpose so they can charge players with microtransactions to play the slightly less shitty game.

[@mothcub]

Your lobsters create within me a rich tapestry of emotion.

[@oof-rr5nf]

amazing statement is amazing

[@MissMokate]

this sounds vaguely ominous

[@idk-ve9ss]

don’t steal my lobsters

[@CamJames]

my first experience with micro-transactions came in the form of Giant Boulder of Death, an insidiously powerful mindf*ck of a game. That one and Angry Birds drained at least $100 out of me until I realized how dumb I was being. I have a marketing degree and ads are my job - still convinced myself that those small purchases were worth it to keep playing. Arcades in the 80s/90s did the same thing though, you couldn't complete a full game of NBA Jam without more quarters.

[@papervans]

Dan succumbing to the true hierarchies with that shirt

[@maxbrosig8986]

Dan took the lobster pill

[@daxiomus]

thanks for pointing that gem out, i missed it myself

[@marshalinehamismother]

Consider the lobsters in his shirt

[@carrrich6193]

All hail the lobster queen!

[@garlicfries85]

I completely missed that shirt

[@rebeccacohn2696]

I won't say Fortnite is the reason I quit teaching high schoolers, but it definitely made my life harder.

[@thescrimble]

Try middle schoolers

[@face2708]

It makes me want to quit being a high schooler, I can’t even imaging the shit teachers deal with.

[@gamzee3610]

Coming from a highschooler, if you're a highschool teacher while Fornite is popular you're braver than a U.S. Marine Soldier.

[@face2708]

Gamzee Pope I don’t know if I’d go that far. Middle school maybe.

[@gamzee3610]

@@face2708 good point, middle schoolers are, something else

[@tribes2archivist]

I'd love to see this revisited 5 years on. So much has changed, and it's just as insidious as before.

[@synth-wave_steve]

The sea of dead multiplayer games that would probably be fine at 20 dollars but failed due to not meeting expectations as a free to play is a tragedy.

[@nikorin8379]

“...Gachapon toys...” “...Gachapon...” “...Gacha...” //has flashback to that video of a guy spending 1000usd on Apple gift cards for Love Live! SIF and not getting his best girl after so many rolls//

[@liz_violet]

more like: I remember my LINE PLAY days...

[@Derpplup]

literally the only fortnite video i have ever watched also 10 minute concert from the way my friends made it sound like it was longer then that

[@Pranaynaynay]

It's funny to revisit this after Star Wars used fortnite to show Palpatine return lol

[@Firestar4041]

Finally someone does an in depth video, of the issues with Fortnite. Rather than just insulting it on the daily.

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

I mean, insulting it is also okay.

[@Firestar4041]

Not really, especially when the most common insult is; "Kids play this game too loudly!" That's not an insult, that's basically just every game. Just say ya don't like kids already.

[@kyleolson8977]

I can't stop laughing at the hand-waving.

[@daegan_ftw]

Things like this make me glad to have Asperger's and by an extension a protection from manufactured discontent, fomo, etc.

[@rjskillz92]

I've literally never played fortnite before, so i didnt know a lot about how the store and the progression works. Locking weekly challenges behind a paywall is just gross. I cant believe more people dont talk about this.

[@mediterranean_penguin_1863]

Hey Dan, Black Mirror just called, they want their episode back

[@TeknoSquirrel]

Honestly, this is what Black Mirror should be tackling. It'd be some Fifteen Million Merits-level social commentary.

[@Daszkal]

It's telling I think how Dan's gameplay section is actually pretty good, showcasing some wins, interesting takedowns, and a sick burn. I don't know if it says 'Dan is good at editing' or 'a gameplay montage is not actually that hard'... but it definitely says something.

[@gilolaes4725]

Kudos for making an actual video on April Fool's day. Was a very interesting watch with a lot of good points.

[@guytorie]

The tone of this feels so weird now that I'm also constantly thinking about "waving = talking" the entire time.

[@TheOniraf]

Finally after years of following the channel for improvement and learning we get player ON player action.

[@Schilling09]

That was brilliant. I'm always baffled by the non-obvious yet really effective essay structures you use.