MAJOR Paladin Changes: IT Gets Even Easier!

[@brianfairchild4665]

Absolutely terrible changes. Most all of these talents are incredibly niche. You might as well close your eyes and start clicking until your class tree is filled out because none of the talents will do anything. Only good changes removing the need to stand in consecration

[@Kamia2003]

4 talent points for divine steed to be functional is horrible. Especially after playing rider of the apocalypse DK where they just get an 10second version with knock back immunity & slow resist. Side note: give healing hands to all 3 specs and not just Ret. It would help prot out so much in the self sustain area.

[@MarcelianOnline]

Casting Flash Lights? I am already going oom on prot with words of glory on lightsmith :(

[@mortalux]

Its already a passive for prot. It actually originated from prot and then transfered to ret and holy had it at some point i think.

[@eXileris]

No hands for hpal please. More damage thoughhhh

[@adamsmith640]

Ret has it too good right now. Needs major rework to make damage harder to do

[@mortalux]

@@adamsmith640 fact, but make them have as much mobility as rogues and ww and feral and survival and warrior.

[@Cyriil4127]

Having the mouse visible would be a pretty good improvement for the next video

[@theburnedman6473]

They should hurry up and give paladins the holy leap talent we saw last expansion XD

[@miriamweller812]

Should have something like Tirion shattering Frostmourne.

[@theburnedman6473]

@@miriamweller812 lets give them the holy leap with an epic disarm that breaks enemy weapon so they have to repair.. i like it xd

[@JungleKluya]

Arator has it when he follows you around in Legion. He will leap and drop consecrate at the same time. It's so cool!

[@cultured956]

I feel like Prot is outdated in general. Just look at their Cooldowns, models come straight from wrath of the lich king

[@j44m33]

finally honest review of the changes, everyone says its super good but no, its bad bad bad, thanks for being the only sane YT who says how it is

[@thegamemattster]

every legitimate paladin player on youtube hates these talents

[@j44m33]

@@thegamemattster ya sure? link them to me then

[@thegamemattster]

@@j44m33 You’ll figure it out

[@j44m33]

@@thegamemattster ya got no example, gotcha. ya just shitty liar lmao

[@pace1872]

thanks for the video. please consider to keep the marker on which Talent you currently are seeable. feels exhausting to track this new Talents in the morning.

[@msf47]

Now if only they give us our blessings back

[@S1D3RAL]

I really dislike Blizzard killing off all of the the stand in x ground ability to get a power spike. Really the solution with current encounter design is to make them significantly larger. I have no idea why abilities like earthquake, blizzard, and similar WC3 spells are so insignificantly small compared to starfall when historically looking at WC3 spell sizes Starfall was always one of the smaller aoes but were all meant to attack entire towns or whole armies. Who would it really bother if consecration was tripled in size?

[@kingsargonii6939]

None of these changes fix the issues with Protection Paladin.

[@sharkstaint1373]

blizzard don't realize that long cds are handicapping prot paladin , but they choose to give him more support bs

[@tremas3329]

@@sharkstaint1373 I hear DBM say 'Defensive!' and im screaming back at it that i used it 3 FIGHTS AGO!

[@Unicornz4life]

@@tremas3329 That means active mitigation, not a 1+ min cd. I.e. use shield of righteousness.

[@Mali.97]

@@Unicornz4life prot pala active mitigation is useless on anything higher then a +8 atm. I did a 9 yesterday and even normal adds were basically 1 shotting me within consecration and shield up ... Prot Palas are sadly just useless as tanks in high keys for example prot warriors aura alone is more worth then prot palas gcd ability consecration + aura

[@mokustabby4865]

​@@Mali.97skill issue tbh. Also, your healer prolly sucked. gg.

[@NoirePkmn]

For Prot Paladins, you would like to be able to cast any holy power spender to reduce cooldowns, for 4 piece and ofc as Templar (which isn't relevant in this point) so having at least some reward for overhealing when spending capped shining lights means it's not a complete waste of a global if you use one for that.

[@igamingpublic]

add 2 speed and damage reduction for divine steed while active. first pull, you get hit hard as a truck.

[@Thegamerslounge33]

lol imagine not pressing freedom…I use it so much

[@ooanticsoo4475]

I do like what they are doing to these classes. They are changing barrier to entry to alot of classes easier and it's just smart as difficulty in rotation=/= fun. Think of rogues now getting slice and dice as a passive on envelope. It's smart and a nice qol. Feral could use the same love imo with rake to rip and perhaps rend to mortal strike to warriors. Obviously this is my opinion but alot seem to feel the same way. It isn't necessarily the complex rotation that makes a game fun!

[@jackpips3358]

I agree, a class overly difficult its not fun, but only frustrating. Buuut, you must have some kind of skill ceiling on every class/spec. Its not okey to have good players that want also to express their skill not having the tools in rotation to make a little bit of a difference to a spec amateur or a bad player. Ret paladin is now embarassing for how much its easy/forgiving. You almost dont pay anything in damage if you make mistakes because you also cant make mistakes. I mained ret paladin the two last season of dragoflight only because of the mechanic of the tier set, the only real thing that was setting some skill ceiling area with the not overlapping judgement buff for bouble holy spender.

[@Rafael-km9mx]

​@@jackpips3358fun is subjective

[@dhampir216]

I main a hubter on cata classic and went ret for war within .. im am really enjoying the ret. I never played it so i dont noticed the nerfs or buffa.. really great class overall imo

[@The0nlyy]

Ret is the strongest melee DPS in the game right now and it’s not even close.

[@Srelathon]

Although I'm glad the class tree is getting a rework and I think these are a lot of good changes, they do not help with the problems that Prot is having in the slightest.

[@rickcasual]

I play prot pally pvp and im just tired of getting my a-hole ripped apart in 3 seconds by nearly every class. Last season of DF i couldnt be killed, now its like "who cant kill me?". Rets are tankier than prot right now, so sick of it.

[@MrM4DD0gg]

Hope prot pala gets fixed

[@MarcelianOnline]

Same here brother!

[@LordCthulhu40]

Me too bro

[@jbarlak]

And there’s no issues with prot. Plenty with no issues tanking in M+

[@MrVellinson]

Maybe next expansion

[@BeowulfGaming]

@@jbarlak yeah low keys, everyone is viable, but try to get into +7 and higher, they accept bear, DH and warr only

[@mikeal425]

played a pally for many years , and these Talents /smh /sigh

[@leaverpool8059]

Woah another paladin rework! It has been ages since there was one!!

[@johncampbell4058]

The best way to do a holy leap is to imitate the animation of how Imperius teleports to Tyrael in Diablo 3 for the cinematic cut scene fight.

[@truthseeker508]

That would be so cool!

[@RubenManriquezS]

Few times in my life I have seen so many bad talents in just one class. The changes sucks and are so expensive (stupid steed cost between 4 to 6 talents points, 3 talent points on meaningless talents like heals when dispel something, that the healing is so bad that it's a joke). If this goes to live, I will bench my 8 years main Paladin and maybe stop playing at all. My God, horrendous

[@IMTWOHUGE]

Guh bye 😂🤭

[@Zoibek]

You should see Paladin in Classic. You gotta blow 15 points in Holy for consecrate, the buffs to Int & Strength are base stats only, you gotta get crit for Redoubt to proc, Ret is Ret

[@ahtilah1194]

I would argue that giving LOH armor value is more of a group benefit then tank benefit. Use it on a cloth user, or non-tank in general, would probably give more benefit.

[@KodokuSamaa]

Uh, why? None of them should be getting auto-attacked.

[@Dangerous1939]

@@KodokuSamaa Some Abilities deal physical damage, like Ara-Kara 2nd Boss the charge or Siege last Boss tentacle slams

[@jmarshall3150]

I haven't played a paladin since classic because raiding as a paladin was so bad that I never touched the class since because being a cleanse bot wasn't fun. I might give it a try this expansion

[@Enzorn84]

I see myself using that Forberance talent while doing Delves in the higher ranks until I get more comfortable doing them. I'm also ultra casual nowdays, so that is niche in intself.

[@KodokuSamaa]

Takes me back to Legion where we had auto-divine shield talent. Boy did I die a lot for a while after it was removed...

[@chamathnadeeshan4008]

In season 1 prot paladin, i feel like i need to sit down to eat after every big fight or i ran out of mana.

[@TheReaI0ne]

Lay on Hands to save someone... Only for them to die 20 seconds later anyway 😅

[@anonprada203]

Wait. Is divine toll going to just be a slightly buffed judgement now? It won’t recast every 5 seconds for 15 seconds anymore?

[@asldfjkalsdfjasdf]

"Prevent all Poison and Disease effects" probably means you can still suffer direct poison or disease damage but you are immune to debuff's of this type.

[@erictyler3259]

Unpopular opinion: I just joined the PTR to see what is going on with Holy and I am really disappointed. Every since Vanilla I wanted to play a holy paladin as a melee healer. After playing a little with the my spec in the live game, I was really liking the direction of Holy. But it appears that Blizzard is now backtracking… This may be unpopular and may not be the greatest mathematically, but I like it: I took pretty much every talent that effects Judgment. Particularly “Righteous Judgment” and “Judgment of Light”. Then I took “Golden Path”, “Seal of Mercy”. This causes an area around the target where melee are receiving heals from both Consecration and Judgment of Light. It’s a beautiful thing :joy: I would totally spend another point in “Righteous Judgment” to increase it to a 100% chance. Even if it was deeper into the talent tree. In fact I wish there was a branch to the talent tree that focused on melee healing. Another cool idea would be some sort of mechanic that causes an AOE healing effect to radiate out from my target when I strike it with Crusader Strike while “Judgment of Light” is active.

[@WilliamVosseler]

RIP Pre-WoD Atonement.

[@sharkstaint1373]

to be fair prot paladin is one the most fun tanks to play , so much control , u actualy feel like you can do stuff , while other tanks feel like training dummys with some crowd control , and its getting ignored so hard rn , i literaly got 44 mastery and reach 16% dr from 22% mastery which have 11.6 , which is insane with the nerfs, the paladin just need his garbage rng block to be fixed , when i tank sometimes i get nuked , sometimes i actualy block stuff , just make his block with sotr block 100% like warriors who somehow actualy block with their shield , while we got got a half assed shield , and even with 89 % block i reach with a wog talent that gives 30 and barricade of faith that add another 10 , i still get nuked , its just crazy how undertuned our dr is , not to mention the 3 hour cds , so we can't go on every pack and feel moderatly tanky , while warrior got 40% dr on a 2 min cd and two charges , kinda crazy.

[@tremas3329]

Ive played Prot Pally since Burning Crusade and it felt the best it had in a long time to me in Dragonflight. In War Within I absolutely hate tanking with it even after getting decent gear. I levelled and hit 80 on a Blood DK today. Tanked LFR in mostly crap gear I cobbled together and it feels ten times better than my pally with much better gear. I cant put my finger on exactly what it is, it just doesnt feel good to be a prot pally for me.

[@syatek]

I cant help but notice your framerate drops in raid (16:35 for ex) - what is your PC build? My 4080 and 5800X3D have been struggling this tier. Seeing lows in the 10s when in a group > 20 people

[@JJsTechEsports]

Your math on LoH damage reduction isn't correct: if you go from 50% reduction to 65%, that's a 30% reduction in damage. A base hit of 200 would hit for 100 without LoH or just 70 with the buff.

[@jonathanhughes8679]

Spells shouldn’t apply to diminished return on armor spells.

[@ruairidhkoch7875]

Question: can someone explain the logic behind the VERY low dmg behind Consecration? Why?!

[@retro3856]

Because in cata conc was actually an ability and people would die from standing in it and bitched

[@ruairidhkoch7875]

@@retro3856 And instead of making it do FAIR amount of dmg, they killed it and make it do baby damg?

[@retro3856]

@@ruairidhkoch7875 yeah it’s been pretty useless since

[@ruairidhkoch7875]

@@retro3856 ok. Ty for explaining my son...

[@S1D3RAL]

Pretty much all persistent ground AoEs do dog shit damage to protect lazy/dumb PvPers. Death and Decay, Earthquake, Consecration, Blizzard, Starfall are all kinda shit.

[@derrickhead]

pvp wise IM SOOOOOOOOOOOOO READY for 11.0.5 eye for a eye alone! and forbearance and lay on hands and bubble buffs healing to 30% health just by bubbling no ms and armor buff on lay of hands healing auto swing is back with crap tone of party help buffs and hammer of wrath even stronger and stronger wings im super geeked

[@sebchambers12]

Those class tree changes are god awful. Lets hope they listen to the playerbase and dont let this go to live

[@spiddys11]

where do you find the list of changes for pally?

[@arsalanabbasi9323]

Blizzard is killing it. First hunters, then shamans, etc. It just keeps getting better and better

[@jessikat6692]

What hunters? BM what?

[@Gitaikou]

Really excited for the expansion to leave beta and finally launch in 11.0.5

[@PARADISE-404]

true mate true

[@Shuja_R1M]

Wow players really are the whiniest of the bunch

[@Grumpypu]

​@@Shuja_R1Mthey have all rights to be, imagine paying monthly for a beta test, that's the state the game is in rn

[@Shuja_R1M]

@@Grumpypu it’s an overblown statement to say it’s still in beta. They will continue making changes and updates to classes up until the last raid tier. It’s called being entitled and being whiny acting like he is

[@JeyKalda]

@@Grumpypu No its not, wtf are you on about. The tuning is welcome and is what happens every god damned time in retail.

[@dabndangle]

As a Templar ret pally I don't see how any of this helps Templar be a usable class for pvp. It's literally either play as Harold of the sun or get owned. The only time Templar felt comparable with Harold is when the hol "bug" was going on and you had a 12 second window to use hols. Even with that I wasn't doing more damage then good Harold of the sun or monk. But atleast it felt good. Hol misses constantly. And under hits a majority of the time. I'm only talking pvp because that's all I do. Not sure how it is for raiding but for pvp it's play Harold of the sun or get shit on

[@Akon998]

Calling blessing of freedom useless is the most ridiculous thing i heard in a weeks

[@denisveselov7080]

This will be live next week right?

[@WilliamVosseler]

10.22 looks like it's the release date for 11.0.5

[@Vondarkstar]

Can already macro blessing of freedom into steed and really no reason not to.

[@networknomad5600]

That assumes people wanna macro. This ain’t classic, you don’t gotta rely on old macro tech to get by anymore nor is it expected.

[@papi2960]

🤢 using your steed everytime you freedom a friendly sounds nasty.

[@TheHashtagSquad2K15]

I could think of several places where you want to use freedom independent of steed and vice versa….

[@Vondarkstar]

@@TheHashtagSquad2K15 You can either use it every 25 for a full value steed or bank it for those ‘places’ you think you ‘might’ need it. We know how that goes, you never press it. Blessing of Freedom is on a low CD and off the GCD for a reason. 😉

[@Templar1337-d9e]

Blessing of freedom is not off the gcd lol

[@glennjackson100]

New LotM cap stone!?! Sign me up!!

[@marloumoore8216]

I feel so squishy as prot pally, although im doing +3/+4 (596il) keys it feels rough...

[@kurogane_b-wolf]

1:34 "Someone dips, you Lay on Hands on them. Gently." *the party member dies anyway seconds later*

[@imabigblackduck]

What a shame. I was looking forward of talenting out of Radiant Glory (I do NOT like the talent, only use it to keep up/or get ahead of others) with the new juiced up wings. But a 2 minute cooldown all around? Really? Wasn’t the whole point of making Wings a minute cooldown, even with Might, to give more uptime on our wings where Crusade ends up falling short? Complaint aside, good changes, however, definitely some questionable changes especially with extremely specific scenario talents.

[@PermanentMidnight]

where is this talent calculator at?

[@xXDimiliDutXx]

how did u make youre damage and healing done look like that 0:56

[@patrikschroner2154]

MikScrollingBattleText addon

[@xXDimiliDutXx]

@@patrikschroner2154 i mean the part that make detail look like that

[@UnderPoverP]

As a solo player. It felt like shit when he said 591 is shit. Like dang, not all of have that kind of time xD

[@pielto]

Yeah when I heard that I couldnt help but think about all the players not necessarily grinding gear and feeling bad Could work a bit on tact, Flame

[@bigkrunt]

@@pielto if your not grinding gear why would you feel bad about not having gear? lmao

[@michaelsongin4007]

I’m 609 and I haven’t done a single raid, or a single M+. I just do delves every couple days.

[@TheHashtagSquad2K15]

So you’re a mole man…..you do realize bountiful delves give 603 ilvl items right? And those have been available for a while right? And they don’t take much time…..

[@jakemoore1561]

[@Kai-10-]

Need more love

[@MarcelianOnline]

feel ya Kai

[@Scape974]

i think they forgot Avenging crusader once again for holy pal, like bro, can it be good someday or what ?

[@yangvincent7408]

At this point I just don’t want to tank on paladin, the fact that they had to change the way shield of righteousness work FOUR times already is stupidity at its finest. Just bring back the flat damage reduction back and add a little restriction to it pretty please?😂

[@TheBumpyJohnson]

Does anyone know, is that an addon to show the additional stats on the character pane?

[@CsStoker]

Where are the patch notes?

[@jthrone7768]

Dreading these changes as an Hpal

[@Oliver-h6g]

Lightbearer will be nerfed instantly. Its going to be broken if you step into a spirit link with it

[@matthewgunther782]

Take a shot every time he says “giga” 😂

[@MarcelianOnline]

OH NO, DRINKING GAMES and I cannot partake lololol

[@bibble2396]

I wish they focus on making the Hero Talents feel more distinctive. - Imagine if light smiths had an ability replacement where you do a black*smithing* animation as you "forge and smith the light" or some shi - Imagine if Templars dropped a huge pitch white pure light hammer looking ahh when you do "hammer of light".. - IMAGINE if "herald of the sun" had an animation where they pull a chain made of light from the sky and its like pulling light magic from the sky above / sun or something. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA im skitzo

[@claytidwell]

um NO ONE uses cursader aura, for anything.

[@danielyankelevich1569]

Removing seal of order seems like a straight up nerf to ref paladin. Adding a ton of niche talents that have like 3% effects… I just don’t get it. They basically redesigned the tree to give prot/holy paly minimal defensive help that barely does anything. Garbage changes

[@markhaber3131]

hmmm... another pala revamp... i play both pala and druid and in my opion druid needs it a lot more. not just because druid is somehow bad but becaus it is boring to play atm. especially resto druid.

[@gregsimard9154]

honestly just shouldve left the tree alkone if this is the best they coiuld come up with its not good.

[@Punk2k11]

man im nervous they keep buffing paladins and now I see them every where lol played this class when it been dog now that it pumps were gonna get hit with a hammer soon and be in the dumps again.

[@retro3856]

Honestly doubt it ret is definitely strong but there are significantly stronger class it excels at aoe and it’s single target is better now but there are other classes that can do comparable damage with some better utility options at least for keys for raid rets pretty solid

[@VesiustheBoneCruncher]

Historically with ret we’ve always been up and down. Prot is in the running for best overall spec in the game if you look over the full 20 years - it might not win, but it is right there. And holy has always had its niche. But yeah, they will nerf ret. It is only time, so we should enjoy it while we can. It’s difficult. So much is in there. Ret is pretty tanky, and can throw out useful healing quite consistently if needed, is great at AoE dps. We can help the tank with stuns if needed. We have good range for melee. The worse the group, the more useful the ret is, if they are good, because they can cover for screw ups. In a really good group, that isn’t needed, the group wants specialists in every role. So at the top end, without its own niche, Ret is not ever going to be the pick.

[@SpaceMomo]

@@VesiustheBoneCruncher I remember Holy Paladin in Legion, you could heal a tank from 5% to 100% with 1 single holy shock crit, shit was wild.

[@TheOmegaSupereme]

I don't see how this is better? I can still see wasting points in shitty talents to get to good ones. More importantly I can see the Paladin being more FUN to play.

[@Electric_]

Prot Paladin looks to be rocketing to at least A tier alongside Prot Warrior. We have such a tank shortage we need Prot Paladin to be really good. Paladin is the most popular class, and we need them to start tanking more, but too many are scared off because it got crippled more than others in the tank nerfs.

[@ToxicFume]

Still waiting for the day concencration and turn evil to be removed removed.

[@jensjensen4836]

Prot paladin still has the Same Mastery :(

[@dtxwolf9520]

Well I’m changing my main after 8 years 😢

[@001Elpato]

From 14 tier 3 talents 12 are dog shit unless maybe for PvP . Horrible rework.

[@mothman84]

Sure, first break 100 bones, then mend 30 bones... Now, celebrate. Celebrate, damn you! LOL LOL LOL

[@That_kind_of_orc]

Paladins just can't see the end of love I just hope final reckoning will be a better option than execution sentence which is giga boring and I'm not a fan of radiant glory at all

[@markuslc1888]

buff ret (at least st.) i am not really looking forward to the new class tree. i still wish for a return of blessing of might, kings and wisdom. wisdom could be similar to the evoker mana/heal buff, kings could be similar to scales from aug, and might could be a ret only blessing with +1% prim stat 😁

[@Rafael-km9mx]

I hope you are trolling, their st is avg and that is fine for the incredible sustained aoe

[@markuslc1888]

@@Rafael-km9mx check sims and don't bother me with your disbelief. ret does the worst st in m+.

[@Rafael-km9mx]

@@markuslc1888 check qrva, dont bother me with bad players like yourself, get gud lil kid

[@Rafael-km9mx]

@@markuslc1888 check qrva, dont bother me with your low skill, get gud bro

[@Rafael-km9mx]

@@markuslc1888 check qrva, maybe you can learn a thing or two and get gud

[@L0rks]

New talents! Amazing :) Thank you!

[@Chris_dolmeth]

Why though they just got a rework last xpac and are in a really good spot rn.

[@jmor106]

They are not in a good spot.

[@Chris_dolmeth]

@@jmor106 they are in a perfect spot rn bro what are you talking about? Could be as bad as BM hunter rn 😂

[@jmor106]

@@Chris_dolmeth what are you smoking to think they are in a perfect spot? The rework they did last expansion relied on the Lego wrap to keep them competitive on the high end.

[@Chris_dolmeth]

@@jmor106 some really good weed and yeah my bad I forgot ret does the worst dps and has zero utility or raid\ party buffs and cooldowns man they should really help them out 😂

[@Chris_dolmeth]

@@jmor106 and this week alone they are S tier for keys 😂 you must just have a low skill level b.

[@Tronarul]

ty

[@Kamehameuser]

Ive got to say I absolute love these changes for pvp, since atm ret is very garbage imo

[@Zoibek]

Ret just did extremely well in the most recent tourney

[@brextonridgdell8564]

Used lay on hands to save mage….. still dies…

[@WilliamVosseler]

Fully the Mage's fault for not using his seven-hundred other abilites to keep himself alive. xD

[@Andrew-qq8fb]

They need to totally rework Pallies, especially Holy and Prot. Their design feels stale.

[@Gumblethebear]

So far the new talents are a nerf to prot paladin, and likely ret paladin....... holy gets some buffs, but a bit of nerfs..... Needless to say, not pleased yet. Maybe they'll get there, but right now, these changes would kill prot and make it completely ignored.

I am talking about PVP here because I think that balancing in PVE doesn't matter, it's just a problem of the elitist playerbase, and yes it is affecting casuals too. For PVP, the problem is not ret paladin being weak, the problem is how PVP is right now. Your HP bar juggles to much from 100% to almost 0 with self healing abilities, and doesn't move at all with damage reduction cooldowns. In this current PVP state, only burst classes excel, the gameplay transitioned from a methodical playstyle where you had little defensive options and heals into a action-like playstyle in which the one who reacts faster wins. Instead of having a class identity and work around that, they made all classes almost the same with burst cd, heal, damage reduction or damage immunity.

[@DH-mp6fg]

They make pally so weak.. they love the mage way to much.

[@rybr3ad]

Honestly I don't want pally to be easier I want it to be around same skill floor as WW I want to feel like I'm hitting combos and making it so that hitting different abilities feel impact instead of spam 5 and 6 Don't get me wrong I love pally Ive played it sense Warlords but I want to see a different dmg profile like maybe dot melee or like WW or Fury where all of your dmg comes different things not just divine storm and Final verdict I will always play pally I just want to see maybe their dmg shifted NOT BUFFED but shifted or I might switch to Windwalker full time

[@Pizzalord91]

Pally is not a class for only pumping dmg. The skill and challenge comes with supporting your mates. People who call pala easy or 'Noob class' have never used Freedom, sac, off heals or anything for their mates, cause you Need awareness for that. Most Players are Even with an easy dmg combo not capable of using the support kit properly, so making it harder makes not much sense i think. If you just want to pump, then Monk suits you better

[@rybr3ad]

@@Pizzalord91 I agree with you I don't want to be top DPS I have saved many raid members with blessings and lay of hands plate armor is great what I wanted when I meant DMG is on the DMG profile for more of the DMG to come from our other spells besides just verdict and Storm

[@Mogrid]

Every patch focuses on reworking Retribution Paladins. Show some love to Frost Mages-their talent tree is abysmal. There is 0 choice nodes and play style didn't change idk for how long

[@sarah-vc9vh]

Literal pvp pala changes 😂

[@Jay-407]

Sometimes I wonder why I play outlaw and sweat my ass off when I could play a brain dead spec and do crazy dam

[@wolfgangotium2777]

Our smooth brains like the way it feels to smash buttons. If I’m not sperging on that keyboard I am not having fun lol

[@kieran1754]

To be fair you’re not TOPPING meters on a ret pally, you’re like middle of the meter. Unless you’re doing big pulls then yeah you’re probably topping meters

[@Arckabis]

Outlaw is not that crazy bro. Lol. But yeah at this point in my life give me ret or BM

[@Jay-407]

@@Arckabis Iol I’ve played most specs at a high level and outlaw had been the hardest and most unforgiving by a mile

[@j.a.1785]

​@@Jay-407lol, as an outlaw, sounds like you may have a skill issue.

[@rf4648]

Keep nerfing fury into the ground and give soy boy ret more

[@Templar1337-d9e]

Seething warrior clown 😂 Warriors are lesser paladins anyway who could never have skill for the holy magic, fitting for them to be worse.

[@solotopp]

The changes are so bad. Lossing seal is so bad. I went through the tree when it was firat spoiled and had 5 points left over as I had skipped all the bad talents. Literally just have to spend 5 points on useless talents. I hope they iterate before release.

[@dmitryndk]

Why u bully pvp players

[@skoldier29]

Noice

[@MarcelianOnline]

[@alcarva]

Shitty changes and options!

[@geierfurst267]

Even easier? Is that even possible for Ret??? 🙄

[@chaseruizarwin]

Arms Warrior rework when? :(

[@dengo6716]

Holy paladin talents are trash

[@cypherpunk6417]

They wouldn't need to design all these alternative talents if they didn't make the game so goddamn complicated. Too many abilities, too many buttons, too many mechanics going on, gameplay too fast.

[@mark883nm]

Ret is in a horrible status for pvp and pve is going to follow soon, second week mythic reports are already showing the fall in overall dps, Blizzard never learns, 20 years of hate towards paladins specially ret

[@logangardiner7574]

PvP is the only thing in the game that takes any skill whatsoever, not sure why you’re running your mouth when there’s plenty us pvpers could say about you but choose not to

[@deusvult333]

PvPers do exist and they are the best players in this game, keep that in mind. I know it's disappointing for a PvE andy to realize blizz made talent changes specifically for PvP.

[@LsGriizzly]

Another buff to paladin... Meanwhile fury warrior...💀 patch after patch

[@mathiashellberg1153]

I love that Paldins suck, so boring class that all noobs plays